December 15, 2024 • 9 mins
Gaming continues to appeal to kids of all ages and backgrounds - leaving experts to research how people can overcome the harmful impacts.
Playing video games has been linked to improved cognitive function, but research has found it can impact attention span and lead to addiction issues.
Former Detective Inspector Lance Burdett says violent games have been found to negatively impact children and teens - and it's important to phase in low-stakes alternatives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from newstalks'd be follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The demonization, I mean that's my own words, demonization of
video games. But clearly a huge industry, hugely popular. It's
a new form of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah. Of the seventeen biggest Internet usage spikes this year
in New Zealand, fourteen, we're for the video game Fortnite.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So Fortnite is an online video game and game platform
that was released in twenty and seventeen where you get
dropped into an island and you try and kill everyone
and be the last person alive as a circle descends
on you. Involves a lot of building and stuff. It's
quite complicated, but it's huge, hugely popular. Certainly is Yeah,
(00:54):
video games, you know, are they bad for you? Because
there have been some studies saying that there's some cognitive
advantages of video games, and I know that the text
machine's blown up saying that they don't believe any studies,
but you know, all studies are worth looking at and questioning.
There's also been some studies that say that in terms
of surgery, kids that have spent a lot of times
on video games end up being better surgeons. But Lance
(01:17):
Barnett bernet It was the national advisor for New Zealand
Police crisis negotiation teams. He specialized in suicide intervention, on
predicting violent behavior, and on managing high risk incidents as
a negotiation instructor. He has written two excellent books, The
Dark Side of the Brain in twenty twenty and Anxiety
as a Worry, which was released in September this year. Hey, Larrence,
(01:38):
welcome the show. We're talking about video games now. In
your latest book, you had some advice on getting kids
off devices that I think would also work for kids
in video games. You don't believe you get a lot
of success demanding kids or forcing kids to get off devices.
How do you suggest getting kids to spend less time
on the things we believe to be unhealthy for them?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well, it depends a lot. Thanks for the opportunity. It
depends a lot on the type of game that the
person is on and whether they're actually accepted to it.
So some games are great. As you talked about cognitive
abilities socialization, a lot of people, you know, those with
autism and ADHD. It brings focus, et cetera. But there's
just the opposite of that. So it depends on what
(02:20):
study you look at. There's a study that I looked
at twelve thousand teenagers studied by Oxford University found that
forty four percent of heavy gamers had high well being,
but that worries only about the other fifty six percent, right,
So that means they haven't. So you can study you know,
what is it. There's lies down lies, and then there's statistics.
(02:41):
So looking at gaming gaming depends on the person itself. Now,
there's types of games that we can wean people off
and onto. So the games that are highly addictive are
those hugely interactive, Grand Theft Auto, all of those, you know,
the violent type games. Anything that engages us, and we
(03:01):
get the release of dopamine and a whole lot of
other positive neurotransmitters which causes the addictive. Now, the problem
with dopamine is it actually wires our brain and so
we become dependent on getting our hit every day by
having gaming, and so it is like any other addiction
where you do have to try and reduce that. And
so we can replace the games with things like a
(03:23):
bit slower, but they're still the same sort of thing. Tetris,
Candy Crush, Super Mario Rah, and Paper Toss bubble Wrap.
There's quite a few games like that that, believe it
or not, actually reduced anxiety as you play them. There
was a study done on PDSD if you are involved
in a significant stressful event, if you've played the game
(03:44):
Tetris within six hours, it significantly reduces the chances of
getting PTSD. So it depends on the part of the
brain that's being used during the gaming. Is the best
I can give you as an answer.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Interesting, you're talking to me when I interviewed that you
on another radio station about techniques to get kids off
You were talking about phones and you said that you
have to offer create an opportunity for the kid to
get off the phone themselves, so then they can have
I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, but the
dopamine hit by putting it down and coming to join
(04:18):
you in a positive activity. Would that work as well
with video games?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Absolutely would. Yeah, So that's the interim. It's we have
to we have to have a break. You can't just
suddenly say we'll go cold turkey. Not with young people
their brains and neuroplastic anyway, And it will. Actually I
forget the terminology for it, but when you say to
somebody you can't, that's a magnet from to do it, right.
So that's just kids' brains anyway, and so it's having
(04:45):
an interrom but it's given them that sense of control.
You know, we talk about willpower and determination, etc. Taking
devices and removing them away from children. Whilst that might
be helpful in the long term, but isn't willpower And
isn't that isn't having a sense of control being able
to say when you can use it? You know, having
(05:05):
a phone sitting in front of you and just staying
to people you will not use that until a certain
period of time. That's more beneficial than actually removing it
from them. So if we can put it in their
own hands, give them that sense of control. You're allowed
on the phone, you're allowed, you're allowed to game for
one hour a day, and in between other times, you
choose what you're going to do. And what that does
(05:27):
is give them that whole sense of control. And when
you say them, do you look, But you must let
them know that they've stopped gaming and they've done something
else so that they get the recognition of that. So
you know, thanks so much of it. You've been off
your device. How does that make it feel? Habit? Little
bit of chat about it. What happens is they start
to realize that they're replacing the dopamine with playing the
(05:49):
game with not playing the game, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yes, so you might say, I remember you put it
this way, and I really enjoyed your book, your latest book,
but I haven't got it work me. But I think
you put it this way that you might say, when
do you think you might have an opportunity to join
us to do this activity?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well, how you put it, and then I might have
been a good I might have been in a good
place when.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Essentially it's.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Doesn't sound like the adult in me.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
They've made that choice to join you.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right. I think I've been a
little bit generous, generously because when some kids you're just
going to say, listen, get off. Yeah, but you must exactly. Yeah,
this is the thing. And now every every one of
us is different, but it's finding that that medium between.
If they go cold turkey, it's going to cause more
(06:44):
stress than good, right, and it'll actually disenfranchise you and
you know, cause us more discontent anything. So it's about
giving them that sense of control. Look, we want you
to come and do some activities across during the day. Again,
again it depends on the age of the child, but
certainly we want you involved in this wind would suit you.
(07:04):
And what that does is give them the ability to
make the control. Now I know that it depends on
the age because some kids are going to say, well,
I don't want to at all. I don't want to
be a part of us families. So it's finding what
works for you and the child and really having the
but giving the child the empowerment of having some sense
of control. Yes, you are going to We are all
when we're very young. We have to be told what
(07:26):
to do. But the other thing around this is also
as parents, we our children mimic us. And so if
we are sitting watching TV, that's an addiction from a
child's point of view. Yeah, you I game, you watch TV,
that's your addiction, and so we have to be mindful
also that they are watching us.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is there something in at lance that if a parent
understands the game that the child's playing, And a lot
of these games are played online with their friends, so
there's no pausing or stopping. They might be in the
middle of a mission or doing something with their friends,
and at that point in time, that is the most
important thing to them. And if as a parent you
say no, you've got to come off it right now,
I don't care what mission you're in, then that sets
(08:08):
off something in the child's brain.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, it does well. Apart from all, yeah, it certainly does. Cortisol,
et cetera. It's around saying, well, there has to be boundaries.
This is the thing around children particularly, They have to
have boundaries. We can't just allow them to do whatever
they want to because bad things will happen. So if
we can set some boundaries for them and say no,
(08:31):
you promised that you were off at this time, but
then allowing them to play for a certain number of
you know, an hour or two hours or three hours,
so that they can set up the time that they're
going to be involved in that special operation. And you know,
you're talking my kind of language, because this has actually
happened in real life with our family, right So it's
about having this that these rules at certain times and
(08:55):
allowing that child then to play that game because you
said they could. If we just suddenly walk in there
and change our mind and say no, that's it, you're off.
I'm sick of this stuff. Then that's going to cause
backlash of some sort. But again we must always set
the boundaries for our children, because children don't know boundaries.
(09:15):
That's what they're looking for, particularly as teenagers. Teenagers want
to know where the boundary is and I'll take one
step over it to see what happens. They want to
know consequences as well, so we've got to remind them
of those.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Thank you so much. Laannce Bunnett was the National Advisor
for New Zealand Police Crisis Negotiation Teams and his book
Anxiety as a Worry is out now if you want
to check it out, it's a very good read.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from newstalks'd be follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The demonization, I mean that's my own words, demonization of
video games. But clearly a huge industry, hugely popular. It's
a new form of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah. Of the seventeen biggest Internet usage spikes this year
in New Zealand, fourteen, we're for the video game Fortnite.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So Fortnite is an online video game and game platform
that was released in twenty and seventeen where you get
dropped into an island and you try and kill everyone
and be the last person alive as a circle descends
on you. Involves a lot of building and stuff. It's
quite complicated, but it's huge, hugely popular. Certainly is Yeah,
(00:54):
video games, you know, are they bad for you? Because
there have been some studies saying that there's some cognitive
advantages of video games, and I know that the text
machine's blown up saying that they don't believe any studies,
but you know, all studies are worth looking at and questioning.
There's also been some studies that say that in terms
of surgery, kids that have spent a lot of times
on video games end up being better surgeons. But Lance
(01:17):
Barnett bernet It was the national advisor for New Zealand
Police crisis negotiation teams. He specialized in suicide intervention, on
predicting violent behavior, and on managing high risk incidents as
a negotiation instructor. He has written two excellent books, The
Dark Side of the Brain in twenty twenty and Anxiety
as a Worry, which was released in September this year. Hey, Larrence,
(01:38):
welcome the show. We're talking about video games now. In
your latest book, you had some advice on getting kids
off devices that I think would also work for kids
in video games. You don't believe you get a lot
of success demanding kids or forcing kids to get off devices.
How do you suggest getting kids to spend less time
on the things we believe to be unhealthy for them?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well, it depends a lot. Thanks for the opportunity. It
depends a lot on the type of game that the
person is on and whether they're actually accepted to it.
So some games are great. As you talked about cognitive
abilities socialization, a lot of people, you know, those with
autism and ADHD. It brings focus, et cetera. But there's
just the opposite of that. So it depends on what
(02:20):
study you look at. There's a study that I looked
at twelve thousand teenagers studied by Oxford University found that
forty four percent of heavy gamers had high well being,
but that worries only about the other fifty six percent, right,
So that means they haven't. So you can study you know,
what is it. There's lies down lies, and then there's statistics.
(02:41):
So looking at gaming gaming depends on the person itself. Now,
there's types of games that we can wean people off
and onto. So the games that are highly addictive are
those hugely interactive, Grand Theft Auto, all of those, you know,
the violent type games. Anything that engages us, and we
(03:01):
get the release of dopamine and a whole lot of
other positive neurotransmitters which causes the addictive. Now, the problem
with dopamine is it actually wires our brain and so
we become dependent on getting our hit every day by
having gaming, and so it is like any other addiction
where you do have to try and reduce that. And
so we can replace the games with things like a
(03:23):
bit slower, but they're still the same sort of thing. Tetris,
Candy Crush, Super Mario Rah, and Paper Toss bubble Wrap.
There's quite a few games like that that, believe it
or not, actually reduced anxiety as you play them. There
was a study done on PDSD if you are involved
in a significant stressful event, if you've played the game
(03:44):
Tetris within six hours, it significantly reduces the chances of
getting PTSD. So it depends on the part of the
brain that's being used during the gaming. Is the best
I can give you as an answer.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Interesting, you're talking to me when I interviewed that you
on another radio station about techniques to get kids off
You were talking about phones and you said that you
have to offer create an opportunity for the kid to
get off the phone themselves, so then they can have
I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, but the
dopamine hit by putting it down and coming to join
(04:18):
you in a positive activity. Would that work as well
with video games?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Absolutely would. Yeah, So that's the interim. It's we have
to we have to have a break. You can't just
suddenly say we'll go cold turkey. Not with young people
their brains and neuroplastic anyway, And it will. Actually I
forget the terminology for it, but when you say to
somebody you can't, that's a magnet from to do it, right.
So that's just kids' brains anyway, and so it's having
(04:45):
an interrom but it's given them that sense of control.
You know, we talk about willpower and determination, etc. Taking
devices and removing them away from children. Whilst that might
be helpful in the long term, but isn't willpower And
isn't that isn't having a sense of control being able
to say when you can use it? You know, having
(05:05):
a phone sitting in front of you and just staying
to people you will not use that until a certain
period of time. That's more beneficial than actually removing it
from them. So if we can put it in their
own hands, give them that sense of control. You're allowed
on the phone, you're allowed, you're allowed to game for
one hour a day, and in between other times, you
choose what you're going to do. And what that does
(05:27):
is give them that whole sense of control. And when
you say them, do you look, But you must let
them know that they've stopped gaming and they've done something
else so that they get the recognition of that. So
you know, thanks so much of it. You've been off
your device. How does that make it feel? Habit? Little
bit of chat about it. What happens is they start
to realize that they're replacing the dopamine with playing the
(05:49):
game with not playing the game, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yes, so you might say, I remember you put it
this way, and I really enjoyed your book, your latest book,
but I haven't got it work me. But I think
you put it this way that you might say, when
do you think you might have an opportunity to join
us to do this activity?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well, how you put it, and then I might have
been a good I might have been in a good
place when.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Essentially it's.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Doesn't sound like the adult in me.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
They've made that choice to join you.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right. I think I've been a
little bit generous, generously because when some kids you're just
going to say, listen, get off. Yeah, but you must exactly. Yeah,
this is the thing. And now every every one of
us is different, but it's finding that that medium between.
If they go cold turkey, it's going to cause more
(06:44):
stress than good, right, and it'll actually disenfranchise you and
you know, cause us more discontent anything. So it's about
giving them that sense of control. Look, we want you
to come and do some activities across during the day. Again,
again it depends on the age of the child, but
certainly we want you involved in this wind would suit you.
(07:04):
And what that does is give them the ability to
make the control. Now I know that it depends on
the age because some kids are going to say, well,
I don't want to at all. I don't want to
be a part of us families. So it's finding what
works for you and the child and really having the
but giving the child the empowerment of having some sense
of control. Yes, you are going to We are all
when we're very young. We have to be told what
(07:26):
to do. But the other thing around this is also
as parents, we our children mimic us. And so if
we are sitting watching TV, that's an addiction from a
child's point of view. Yeah, you I game, you watch TV,
that's your addiction, and so we have to be mindful
also that they are watching us.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is there something in at lance that if a parent
understands the game that the child's playing, And a lot
of these games are played online with their friends, so
there's no pausing or stopping. They might be in the
middle of a mission or doing something with their friends,
and at that point in time, that is the most
important thing to them. And if as a parent you
say no, you've got to come off it right now,
I don't care what mission you're in, then that sets
(08:08):
off something in the child's brain.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, it does well. Apart from all, yeah, it certainly does. Cortisol,
et cetera. It's around saying, well, there has to be boundaries.
This is the thing around children particularly, They have to
have boundaries. We can't just allow them to do whatever
they want to because bad things will happen. So if
we can set some boundaries for them and say no,
(08:31):
you promised that you were off at this time, but
then allowing them to play for a certain number of
you know, an hour or two hours or three hours,
so that they can set up the time that they're
going to be involved in that special operation. And you know,
you're talking my kind of language, because this has actually
happened in real life with our family, right So it's
about having this that these rules at certain times and
(08:55):
allowing that child then to play that game because you
said they could. If we just suddenly walk in there
and change our mind and say no, that's it, you're off.
I'm sick of this stuff. Then that's going to cause
backlash of some sort. But again we must always set
the boundaries for our children, because children don't know boundaries.
(09:15):
That's what they're looking for, particularly as teenagers. Teenagers want
to know where the boundary is and I'll take one
step over it to see what happens. They want to
know consequences as well, so we've got to remind them
of those.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Thank you so much. Laannce Bunnett was the National Advisor
for New Zealand Police Crisis Negotiation Teams and his book
Anxiety as a Worry is out now if you want
to check it out, it's a very good read.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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