December 14, 2025 • 8 mins
Last night, two gunmen opened fire at Sydney's Bondi Beach - resulting in the deaths of 15 people and 40 more being rushed to hospital.
Authorities say the deadly attack was targeted towards Jewish Australians celebrating the first day of Hanukkah in the area.
Former police negotiator Lance Burdett joined the Afternoons team to reveal how to safely navigate a terror attack or mass shooting.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
On the back of the horrific news of the mass
shooting in Bondai Beach, What should you do if you
find yourself in a mass shooter event? Lance Burdette spent
twenty two years as a police officer, becoming the League
crisis Negotiator. He was described as the most qualified and
highly skilled negotiator within the New Zealand Police, training with
the elite tactical units of Police, Corrections, Fire, Military and
(00:36):
the FBI. He also oversaw the protection of the Prime
Minister and those on the Witness Protection Program, so he
certainly knows his stuff and Lance Burdette joins us now
Lance for a good afternoons.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You good afternoon, guys. There, you going very good.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What's the very first thing people should do when they
realize they're involved in an active shooter or terrorist situation?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, heaven for the what a terrible situation to be in.
The first thing is if you happen to be right
in the center of what's going on, is just drop
on the floor and whether it know it's outside, drop
wherever you are just drop on the ground and lie
as flat as you can. Don't go into a ball
or because you're a bigger target, so it's as flat
as you can. And then if you have the opportunity,
(01:20):
it's called run high tel or some use the it's
called escape hihtail escapers if you're in a building, so
the idea is not to hang around, running the opposite
direction to where the shooting's coming from. That's the best opportunity,
to be honest, If you lie on the ground for
too long, the chances are there's a higher risk, So
you get up and run as far away as you can.
(01:43):
Now if you can't, like for example, you're in a
building and you can't get out of the building, there
is to get into a room and barricade that room,
and once you're in a safe position, then you call
for police.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
In crowded situations, is often a long time before people
you know, I've seen a lot of this footage, horrible,
horrible footage in my time, and people just don't know
what's happening for it for a long time. So what
warning signs should trigger immediate reaction and action rather than hesitation.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So really it's a there's a technique called the star technique.
It's one that I recommend and I do in my
training workshops. You stop what you're doing, you think, act,
and then review. Now the stop is obviously you stand
where you are for a moment, and then the only
way you can think, because you'll be in possibly in
fight or flight or unknowing what's happened. Just breathe out now.
(02:36):
If you were to do it right now, if anyone
listening would do it right now. You breathe out as
slowly as you can and breathe out fully. All of
a sudden, you become relaxed. So when we breathe in,
our heart rate goes up, which looks what we're wired
to do for fight or flight. Take a big, deep breath,
and then we'll so the faster you breathe, the faster heart,
the faster the head. So you breathe out and just
hold for a moment, and that'll give you the idea
(02:56):
of something's not right, because it's almost like having been
in a few situations like this, it's like a dream,
kind of dream world. You go into. Everything seems unreal,
and so the idea is to really try and snap
yourself out of that, so breathing out does that, and
then once something happens, you can't hang around. The other
(03:17):
thing humans are trained to do is help each other,
and I'm afraid to say that's the last thing you
should be doing. You're better off getting away and being
able to tell emergency services what's going on once you
get out to a safe place.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, it's interesting in the last twenty four hours, so
we've seen this hero at BONDI taking down this evil
man and he's being rightly lauded as a hero. So when,
if ever, is fighting back the right option.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So when you're trapped or when you happen to be
close to the situation, if you think you're able to
do it, the idea is to grab the weapon, not
the person. So don't grab the person, grab the weapon
and then you can steer it into the ground and
just scream out for and scream as loud and you
know it a horrible word you can think of, so
(04:06):
that somebody will come and help you. So you grab
it down to the ground.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
You grab the weapon, not the person. That's interesting because
he jumped around the shoulders and he did get shot,
but I think he's going to be all right. But
you say, just grab the weapon.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, that's the weapons the danger. So if you can
grab that and push it down to the ground and
then force the person backwards and just keep pushing them
backwards and they'll trip up, that's the idea of it.
But look, it's easy to say, hard to do, right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely, So what about people who they might know
this technique or this situation and they feel that they
can do the breathing and get a handle on the
situation more than others around them because it is such
a panicked, terrifying situation to be in. Would they be
better to try and direct people out the escape or
to try and do what they can to make it
(04:54):
easy for other people Or that's the wrong advice. Even
if you can keep your head clear, the advice still
should be to get yourself out. You need to focus
on yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Well, I think if you're if you're trained in some way,
then you go along with your training. Now, any emergency services,
not just police, are trained to run to the danger,
not run away from it. And so if you have
that sort of experience, or you're in security industry, then
by all means, if you feel that you're able to
help and feel that you're able in control, then then
(05:23):
please do get involved as much as you can, and
that is by getting as many people away as possible
to reduce the likelihood of casualty.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Now, of course these are chaotic situations when police arrive.
So how should people behave when police do turn up
to avoid being mistaken for a threat, because we've all
seen that happen with something The police don't know what's
going on then, and they can be through collateral damage.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's never run towards police. It's just to stand where
you are or just again lie down on the ground.
The chances are when police arrive they don't know who
is the threat and who isn't, and if you're running
towards them, you can get hurt, particularly if they can't
see your hands. So the idea is to stand where
you are, not run towards them, and let the police
(06:10):
come towards you, drop on the ground, lie as flat
as you can, and if you can, put your lock
your hands in behind your head so that they can
see that your hands are locked and that you have
no weapon and they will feel safe. And what they'll
do is, in most occasions they just tend to arrest everything,
not so much arrest, but detain everybody, and so you
(06:30):
might put you in place to cuffs, ye, and then
work out who's the wrong, the workout what's happened yet.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yep, we're talking about Lance Bertett, who's spent twenty two
years as a police officer becoming lead crisis negotiator. Now,
it's an incredibly rare event these kind of things in
a country like New Zealand. I mean, it does happen,
but they are rare. How much time should kee we
spend worrying about this kind of thing compared to other
threats and everyday life.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Look, you've got a much higher chance of having a
serious motor accent than you do. You're having me anything
else happening to you, So you know, focusing on what
you can control. These things are highly unlikely, as you say,
but they do happen on occasion. It really is about
just thinking about what am I going to do? So
and I just three things I talk about as stop
(07:16):
breathe out, and then you think yourself, should I stay
or should I leave? And that's the only thing that
you should ever do in every situation. And I make
a joke about should I stay or should I go,
so you stand still, breathe out? Am I going to
stay here? Am I going to leave? That first decision?
And every single emergency situations it doesn't change.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And speaking of breathing, on another issue, you've got a
fantastic book, Anxiety as a Worry, and there's a lot
of stuff in that about breathing that I personally found
very helpful. So you're a great New Zealander.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Great, thank you, Oh, thank you very much, very kind.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
It's great, great to have you on the program as always, Lance,
thank you very much for your expertise, and you have
a good Christmas and New Year and we'll catch up
in twenty twenty six. That is Lance Burdette. He was
a police officer for twenty two years. He became the
lead crisis negotiator, So some very timely advice there. Thank
you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
For more from News Talk B listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
On the back of the horrific news of the mass
shooting in Bondai Beach, What should you do if you
find yourself in a mass shooter event? Lance Burdette spent
twenty two years as a police officer, becoming the League
crisis Negotiator. He was described as the most qualified and
highly skilled negotiator within the New Zealand Police, training with
the elite tactical units of Police, Corrections, Fire, Military and
(00:36):
the FBI. He also oversaw the protection of the Prime
Minister and those on the Witness Protection Program, so he
certainly knows his stuff and Lance Burdette joins us now
Lance for a good afternoons.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You good afternoon, guys. There, you going very good.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What's the very first thing people should do when they
realize they're involved in an active shooter or terrorist situation?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, heaven for the what a terrible situation to be in.
The first thing is if you happen to be right
in the center of what's going on, is just drop
on the floor and whether it know it's outside, drop
wherever you are just drop on the ground and lie
as flat as you can. Don't go into a ball
or because you're a bigger target, so it's as flat
as you can. And then if you have the opportunity,
(01:20):
it's called run high tel or some use the it's
called escape hihtail escapers if you're in a building, so
the idea is not to hang around, running the opposite
direction to where the shooting's coming from. That's the best opportunity,
to be honest, If you lie on the ground for
too long, the chances are there's a higher risk, So
you get up and run as far away as you can.
(01:43):
Now if you can't, like for example, you're in a
building and you can't get out of the building, there
is to get into a room and barricade that room,
and once you're in a safe position, then you call
for police.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
In crowded situations, is often a long time before people
you know, I've seen a lot of this footage, horrible,
horrible footage in my time, and people just don't know
what's happening for it for a long time. So what
warning signs should trigger immediate reaction and action rather than hesitation.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So really it's a there's a technique called the star technique.
It's one that I recommend and I do in my
training workshops. You stop what you're doing, you think, act,
and then review. Now the stop is obviously you stand
where you are for a moment, and then the only
way you can think, because you'll be in possibly in
fight or flight or unknowing what's happened. Just breathe out now.
(02:36):
If you were to do it right now, if anyone
listening would do it right now. You breathe out as
slowly as you can and breathe out fully. All of
a sudden, you become relaxed. So when we breathe in,
our heart rate goes up, which looks what we're wired
to do for fight or flight. Take a big, deep breath,
and then we'll so the faster you breathe, the faster heart,
the faster the head. So you breathe out and just
hold for a moment, and that'll give you the idea
(02:56):
of something's not right, because it's almost like having been
in a few situations like this, it's like a dream,
kind of dream world. You go into. Everything seems unreal,
and so the idea is to really try and snap
yourself out of that, so breathing out does that, and
then once something happens, you can't hang around. The other
(03:17):
thing humans are trained to do is help each other,
and I'm afraid to say that's the last thing you
should be doing. You're better off getting away and being
able to tell emergency services what's going on once you
get out to a safe place.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, it's interesting in the last twenty four hours, so
we've seen this hero at BONDI taking down this evil
man and he's being rightly lauded as a hero. So when,
if ever, is fighting back the right option.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So when you're trapped or when you happen to be
close to the situation, if you think you're able to
do it, the idea is to grab the weapon, not
the person. So don't grab the person, grab the weapon
and then you can steer it into the ground and
just scream out for and scream as loud and you
know it a horrible word you can think of, so
(04:06):
that somebody will come and help you. So you grab
it down to the ground.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
You grab the weapon, not the person. That's interesting because
he jumped around the shoulders and he did get shot,
but I think he's going to be all right. But
you say, just grab the weapon.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, that's the weapons the danger. So if you can
grab that and push it down to the ground and
then force the person backwards and just keep pushing them
backwards and they'll trip up, that's the idea of it.
But look, it's easy to say, hard to do, right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely, So what about people who they might know
this technique or this situation and they feel that they
can do the breathing and get a handle on the
situation more than others around them because it is such
a panicked, terrifying situation to be in. Would they be
better to try and direct people out the escape or
to try and do what they can to make it
(04:54):
easy for other people Or that's the wrong advice. Even
if you can keep your head clear, the advice still
should be to get yourself out. You need to focus
on yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Well, I think if you're if you're trained in some way,
then you go along with your training. Now, any emergency services,
not just police, are trained to run to the danger,
not run away from it. And so if you have
that sort of experience, or you're in security industry, then
by all means, if you feel that you're able to
help and feel that you're able in control, then then
(05:23):
please do get involved as much as you can, and
that is by getting as many people away as possible
to reduce the likelihood of casualty.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Now, of course these are chaotic situations when police arrive.
So how should people behave when police do turn up
to avoid being mistaken for a threat, because we've all
seen that happen with something The police don't know what's
going on then, and they can be through collateral damage.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's never run towards police. It's just to stand where
you are or just again lie down on the ground.
The chances are when police arrive they don't know who
is the threat and who isn't, and if you're running
towards them, you can get hurt, particularly if they can't
see your hands. So the idea is to stand where
you are, not run towards them, and let the police
(06:10):
come towards you, drop on the ground, lie as flat
as you can, and if you can, put your lock
your hands in behind your head so that they can
see that your hands are locked and that you have
no weapon and they will feel safe. And what they'll
do is, in most occasions they just tend to arrest everything,
not so much arrest, but detain everybody, and so you
(06:30):
might put you in place to cuffs, ye, and then
work out who's the wrong, the workout what's happened yet.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yep, we're talking about Lance Bertett, who's spent twenty two
years as a police officer becoming lead crisis negotiator. Now,
it's an incredibly rare event these kind of things in
a country like New Zealand. I mean, it does happen,
but they are rare. How much time should kee we
spend worrying about this kind of thing compared to other
threats and everyday life.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Look, you've got a much higher chance of having a
serious motor accent than you do. You're having me anything
else happening to you, So you know, focusing on what
you can control. These things are highly unlikely, as you say,
but they do happen on occasion. It really is about
just thinking about what am I going to do? So
and I just three things I talk about as stop
(07:16):
breathe out, and then you think yourself, should I stay
or should I leave? And that's the only thing that
you should ever do in every situation. And I make
a joke about should I stay or should I go,
so you stand still, breathe out? Am I going to
stay here? Am I going to leave? That first decision?
And every single emergency situations it doesn't change.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And speaking of breathing, on another issue, you've got a
fantastic book, Anxiety as a Worry, and there's a lot
of stuff in that about breathing that I personally found
very helpful. So you're a great New Zealander.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Great, thank you, Oh, thank you very much, very kind.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
It's great, great to have you on the program as always, Lance,
thank you very much for your expertise, and you have
a good Christmas and New Year and we'll catch up
in twenty twenty six. That is Lance Burdette. He was
a police officer for twenty two years. He became the
lead crisis negotiator, So some very timely advice there. Thank
you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
For more from News Talk B listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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