August 7, 2024 • 13 mins
Ian Ferguson MBE is New Zealand's second most successful Olympian. He won four Olympic gold medals competing in K1, K2, and K4 kayak events, and attended five Summer Olympics between 1976 and 1992. He also won two canoe sprint world championship titles.
With Canoe Racing New Zealand defending the decision to have a C2 500m crew at the Paris Olympics, after the boat finished almost a minute adrift of the rest of the field Simon Barnett and James Daniels sought Ian Ferguson's opinion on the matter.
In scenes that reminded of ‘Eric the Eel’ at the Sydney Olympics, or ‘Eddie the Eagle’ at the Winter Games of 1988, the Kiwi combination of Max Brown and Grant Clancy – who have only been learning the discipline for three months – trailed the field by more than 50m at the finish. and were still on the course when other crews were heading back to the jetty.
While their efforts attracted generous, sympathetic applause in the grandstands, it also raised some eyebrows with fans and media alike at the venue.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons
podcast from News Talk z EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're talking about these these two blokes from New Zealand athletes,
brilliant athletes, their way of qualification into the K four
because it didn't qualify for that event through the normal channels,
So New Zealand Canoeing put them into the C two
five hundred. That was how they got through the Oceana series.
So they competed this morning and it was what it
was embarrassing. It was really embarrassing, like just acutely embarrassing.
(00:35):
So we're arguing as to whether or not it was
good of New Zealand Canoeing and rowing to exploit the
system because that was within the rules, or whether it
undermines and demeans the sport of canoeing. So who better
to speak to about this than one of our greatest
ever Olympians, five time Olympic medalists, four golds, one silver,
mbe no less n Ferguson, Hello, n Ian.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hi, Tom and James.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
How are you good mate? Nice to hear your voice, mate.
It really is now many many many years ago. I'm
name dropping here but I can cannot and we grew
very close. We did a TV series to the cast
of the Coats in was one of the competitors and
oh my gosh, you were one of the oldest but
one of the strongest and fittest in it was extraordinary amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely loved that show. I loved competing
in as it was right up my alley. It was
you never knew what was happening next. So yeah, it
was a great sort of competition to be in.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, all the other athletes were sort of in awe
of you and Paul McDonald because because you sort.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Of just all those medals they won that.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But like in every event you were so so good,
like running up the Coopers and eye Brown Tower at
the time the tallest building in Auckland, and you just
flew up past all the cyclists, past the runners, just
you have the lungs the size of a horse. So anyway,
we digress in was it a bad look for New
Zealand as a country and for the sport of canoeing.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Oh, it definitely was a bad look. But as long
as the greater purpose works out, I guess in the
end that they will do well. Yeah, hold their head
high when they race their other race, they can be forgiven.
But it's still a very embarrassing bad luck to start with.
And it's not really yeah, it wasn't in the way
(02:29):
that was those spots were meant to be qualified for kayakers.
It's meant to be qualified for canoeis so trying to
get more canoe people to paddle down our quarter of
the world. So yeah, it's not what International Canoe Federation
planned for this, but yeah, it's canoe racing. New Zealand's
(02:52):
decided this is the way to go, and if the
boys do well in their chosen event, then yeah, I
say they've got to be forgiven because for them it's
very very embarrassing as well. I just yeah, I just
see them. They would have hated that, would they But
(03:12):
oh yeah, yeah, they would have hated. I don't know
why they didn't do a little bit more training. They're
capable of going much faster than the otherland seaboat if
they wanted to, if they did a bit of training,
But they kept on focusing on the K four, which
was the main goal. So the butts are on the
line to do well, I guess, and they put it
out there, so now they've got to do well. Well.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
They have made it to the semi finals of the
K four five hundred, so that's that's good, and there
was second place in the quarter final. But is it
correct that the K four obviously didn't qualify under its
own means.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Did it?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It did.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
It didn't qualify it. No, it wasn't high enough, the
high enough up the order of the World Champs and
any qualifying spot. So they were basically rejected from that
election policy and we got an under a a zone
area that they want to keep people from all around
(04:14):
the world competing someone from down Under in these races,
and which would have been great if it was in
the kayak event, it would have been totally acceptable. But
it's gone into the canoe, which makes it which is
not there expertise or it's not there, it's not even
their type of boat.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, so I mean, I'm presuming from what you said,
then they didn't qualify for the K four through the
normal channels, which is actually performing and winning races and
getting to be the top sixteen. So I'm presuming then
they've got no show in the K four.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well, well, one would expect because they had, but that
was a year ago when they did it. So yeah,
so it's unless they've got some no, they're going to
do better. I don't know's I haven't followed at the
time what was happening, But yes, what you're saying is
(05:12):
possibly correct. But that my point is is if they
do well, then that proves they had the right to
be there. If they make the final, then that's great. Yeah,
and there's not too many boats, so they're racing in
the k or because it is limited. There are limited
numbers of boats available in each race. And yes, so
(05:38):
it's going to be what shouldn't be too it's not
too hard to be okay, but it's hard to make
the final. Still, they make the final, they're doing damn well.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Damn well. Yeah. Hey, have you ever been in the
canoe yourself and done that form of paddle because they're
quite different, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, weird they are. And I've paddled one, I've paddled
a single and they're very tricky to start with, but
at the end of the day, if you trained in them,
you could you could get good on them because it's
just another paddling process. It's just one paddle and you've
just got to learn the technique.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, how's your son Stephen, because I mean, gosh, what
a champion he want Olympian? He was an Olympian for sure.
He was a unit.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, and he's done well. He was. He went to
America's Cup and that's right and became one of the
grinders and because that was perfect for him. He's just
this big beast that just got so much Cardi Vessler
and yeah, and they won, so he was. He was
(06:45):
very happy with himself.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Oh, Betty was Have you ever had an arm wrestle
with him recently? Who would win that?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
No? No, I have not. We always used to fight
when he was little and he got to about fourteen
and then he had me pinned to the ground and
I had to do the dirtiest tactics by you out
of it because he got what I did. Yeah, you
got to win. I couldn't have him boasting forever that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You own me?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What do you do? Well?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
One of the things was I just my face was
by his side, looked right up his face while they're
holding me down, and I did something with my hand
down lower down. I'm not going to say up on
a shot, And I said right, I'm not right. I'm
not fighting with you ever again, and so I'm still
undefeated champion and lovely between the beast and me.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh, that is a brilliant story. And hey, just before
you go, it's really lovely to talk to you. Can
you can you explain for those of us that will
never ever do this, what it's like on the start
line of an Olympic final, when you're waiting and waiting
for the starter's going to go, and then when you
just can you just run us through that process.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Okay, you do the warm up and you get you know,
you've got this warm up and there's pressure on it
throughout the whole woman. But the trick always is to
have a plan, a program right down to the second
how you're doing everything. So you're busy, your mind's working
it out, just doing what you're doing, and then you
paddle up to the start line and then there's always
(08:23):
some dick that's waiting back and you're ready in line,
and it's a nervous time. That is a bad part.
But as long as I found that you can't race
other people's race, you can't worry about that other person
getting ready. You've got to worry about your race only
and your plan. So as long as you're just thinking
(08:45):
your plan, and you go in and you're thinking about
just the first stroke, you're not thinking further on down
because you've got your plan. You know what you're doing next.
Once you've done the first stroke, you know it, and
so you're just thinking of that first stroke because that's
so important. Then you do that, and then you do
your race. You can't chase somebody else, and you're not
(09:06):
fast at the start like Lisa and Amy. They are
so different in their race technique. So Amy can't go
out fast like Lisa, so she shouldn't try to. She
shouldn't try and beat Visa, otherwise she will blow up.
So Amy's got to do her race, go out her
pace and come on strong at the end, and Lisa's
(09:28):
got to try and hold her off at the end.
So you know, you've really got to just do your race.
And I don't remember when I first started, I was
always trying to race the winner and because they are
the top, and it just doesn't work. It's race your race.
And as long as you've got your own plan in
your own mind, you're so busy there keeping in that
zone that you can do your best race. And that's
(09:49):
what's so difficult, because there's there's people around you, there's
boats coming up beside you. Oh it is it is hard.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh it's wonderful hearing you talk like this.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Now that I know that, I wish I was younger.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Two quick things, I still I still wish that as well.
And lately, because it's the Olympics, I'm having these and
dreams where I'm getting ready for racing and I can't
can't find the boat, can't find you racing singleer. Oh's
a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That's good, those anxiety dreams. Two things before you go in.
So you mentioned Amy fishon of course Dame Lisa Carrington,
and that's just been some kind of rivalry, very exciting.
They both race tonight seven thirty in the women's K
one five hundred Heat one, and then of course Lisa
are five minutes later in the second heat. Who do
you think will actually win? Or was that unfair? Is
(10:40):
that unfair to ask?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That is a bit unfair because I love them both
a both beautiful girl in there, and yeah, they've got
different personalities and they race totally different as well, but
they're so damn close who ever just has just has
one fraction of an advantage on that day or just
something will be in their lappe. It's the lucky one
(11:03):
of those two will win, okay, because they're so close,
and yeah, I just hope they just do both do
their own race. That guarantees us the first and second
never done in kayaking history before for us, So that would.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Be that would be amazing. And last question, as we
mentioned in your introduction in five time Olympic medalists, which
is just extraordinary. Four golds, one silver. Last thing because
I'm always fascinated to know for me immortals, you'd think, well,
if you get an Olympic medal, that's just just unreal.
But is there a sense of disappointment like you got
four golds? Is there a sense of disappointment when you
(11:38):
get a silver? Do you feel oh.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Man, oh yeah there is, yeah, definitely, especially with that race.
We hadn't been beaten for a couple of years and
we were you know, you have good luck, you have
bad luck, and on that day we had bad luck.
There was we were in the worst lane. It was
a side headwind, so it was really bad for the
person on the worst lane. It was. We looked at
(12:04):
it on this morning of that race and thought, as
we're lining up, were going, there's no way we should winness,
and we're just going to go like hell, and so
we're really given up chance of winning a goal. But
so in a way, we were just happy we won
the silver. And we always look back on that race
as our best ever race because we still were so
(12:24):
close to winning, and yet we shouldn't have been anywhere
near there. The second favorites came dead last in the
lane next to us, so that's how you know. So
that was our best ever race, even though it was
the silver. So we can look back at that and
say well done to ourselves. But nobody else.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Winning is where he's talking about Paul McDonald, of course.
And last thing we said last week's great. Where do
you keep your medals?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Uh? I can't tell you. Someone might come here, someone
might just come and steal them. Just in my wardrobe. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Do you ever do you ever when you get up
in the morning, you know you're in your undies, do
you ever go to the drawer and just put them
all on, five of them, just see them dangling there?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, telling.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Mate, what are you fantasizing something Simon, and we have
loved chatting with you. It's just such a great insight.
Thank you for being so generous with your time. Mate,
go well, okay, thanks I Ferguson what a champ? Yeah man,
he he was dummy.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
For more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons, listen
live to News Talks d BE, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons
podcast from News Talk z EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're talking about these these two blokes from New Zealand athletes,
brilliant athletes, their way of qualification into the K four
because it didn't qualify for that event through the normal channels,
So New Zealand Canoeing put them into the C two
five hundred. That was how they got through the Oceana series.
So they competed this morning and it was what it
was embarrassing. It was really embarrassing, like just acutely embarrassing.
(00:35):
So we're arguing as to whether or not it was
good of New Zealand Canoeing and rowing to exploit the
system because that was within the rules, or whether it
undermines and demeans the sport of canoeing. So who better
to speak to about this than one of our greatest
ever Olympians, five time Olympic medalists, four golds, one silver,
mbe no less n Ferguson, Hello, n Ian.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hi, Tom and James.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
How are you good mate? Nice to hear your voice, mate.
It really is now many many many years ago. I'm
name dropping here but I can cannot and we grew
very close. We did a TV series to the cast
of the Coats in was one of the competitors and
oh my gosh, you were one of the oldest but
one of the strongest and fittest in it was extraordinary amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely loved that show. I loved competing
in as it was right up my alley. It was
you never knew what was happening next. So yeah, it
was a great sort of competition to be in.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, all the other athletes were sort of in awe
of you and Paul McDonald because because you sort.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Of just all those medals they won that.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But like in every event you were so so good,
like running up the Coopers and eye Brown Tower at
the time the tallest building in Auckland, and you just
flew up past all the cyclists, past the runners, just
you have the lungs the size of a horse. So anyway,
we digress in was it a bad look for New
Zealand as a country and for the sport of canoeing.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Oh, it definitely was a bad look. But as long
as the greater purpose works out, I guess in the
end that they will do well. Yeah, hold their head
high when they race their other race, they can be forgiven.
But it's still a very embarrassing bad luck to start with.
And it's not really yeah, it wasn't in the way
(02:29):
that was those spots were meant to be qualified for kayakers.
It's meant to be qualified for canoeis so trying to
get more canoe people to paddle down our quarter of
the world. So yeah, it's not what International Canoe Federation
planned for this, but yeah, it's canoe racing. New Zealand's
(02:52):
decided this is the way to go, and if the
boys do well in their chosen event, then yeah, I
say they've got to be forgiven because for them it's
very very embarrassing as well. I just yeah, I just
see them. They would have hated that, would they But
(03:12):
oh yeah, yeah, they would have hated. I don't know
why they didn't do a little bit more training. They're
capable of going much faster than the otherland seaboat if
they wanted to, if they did a bit of training,
But they kept on focusing on the K four, which
was the main goal. So the butts are on the
line to do well, I guess, and they put it
out there, so now they've got to do well. Well.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
They have made it to the semi finals of the
K four five hundred, so that's that's good, and there
was second place in the quarter final. But is it
correct that the K four obviously didn't qualify under its
own means.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Did it?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It did.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
It didn't qualify it. No, it wasn't high enough, the
high enough up the order of the World Champs and
any qualifying spot. So they were basically rejected from that
election policy and we got an under a a zone
area that they want to keep people from all around
(04:14):
the world competing someone from down Under in these races,
and which would have been great if it was in
the kayak event, it would have been totally acceptable. But
it's gone into the canoe, which makes it which is
not there expertise or it's not there, it's not even
their type of boat.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, so I mean, I'm presuming from what you said,
then they didn't qualify for the K four through the
normal channels, which is actually performing and winning races and
getting to be the top sixteen. So I'm presuming then
they've got no show in the K four.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well, well, one would expect because they had, but that
was a year ago when they did it. So yeah,
so it's unless they've got some no, they're going to
do better. I don't know's I haven't followed at the
time what was happening, But yes, what you're saying is
(05:12):
possibly correct. But that my point is is if they
do well, then that proves they had the right to
be there. If they make the final, then that's great. Yeah,
and there's not too many boats, so they're racing in
the k or because it is limited. There are limited
numbers of boats available in each race. And yes, so
(05:38):
it's going to be what shouldn't be too it's not
too hard to be okay, but it's hard to make
the final. Still, they make the final, they're doing damn well.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Damn well. Yeah. Hey, have you ever been in the
canoe yourself and done that form of paddle because they're
quite different, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, weird they are. And I've paddled one, I've paddled
a single and they're very tricky to start with, but
at the end of the day, if you trained in them,
you could you could get good on them because it's
just another paddling process. It's just one paddle and you've
just got to learn the technique.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, how's your son Stephen, because I mean, gosh, what
a champion he want Olympian? He was an Olympian for sure.
He was a unit.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, and he's done well. He was. He went to
America's Cup and that's right and became one of the
grinders and because that was perfect for him. He's just
this big beast that just got so much Cardi Vessler
and yeah, and they won, so he was. He was
(06:45):
very happy with himself.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Oh, Betty was Have you ever had an arm wrestle
with him recently? Who would win that?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
No? No, I have not. We always used to fight
when he was little and he got to about fourteen
and then he had me pinned to the ground and
I had to do the dirtiest tactics by you out
of it because he got what I did. Yeah, you
got to win. I couldn't have him boasting forever that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You own me?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What do you do? Well?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
One of the things was I just my face was
by his side, looked right up his face while they're
holding me down, and I did something with my hand
down lower down. I'm not going to say up on
a shot, And I said right, I'm not right. I'm
not fighting with you ever again, and so I'm still
undefeated champion and lovely between the beast and me.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh, that is a brilliant story. And hey, just before
you go, it's really lovely to talk to you. Can
you can you explain for those of us that will
never ever do this, what it's like on the start
line of an Olympic final, when you're waiting and waiting
for the starter's going to go, and then when you
just can you just run us through that process.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Okay, you do the warm up and you get you know,
you've got this warm up and there's pressure on it
throughout the whole woman. But the trick always is to
have a plan, a program right down to the second
how you're doing everything. So you're busy, your mind's working
it out, just doing what you're doing, and then you
paddle up to the start line and then there's always
(08:23):
some dick that's waiting back and you're ready in line,
and it's a nervous time. That is a bad part.
But as long as I found that you can't race
other people's race, you can't worry about that other person
getting ready. You've got to worry about your race only
and your plan. So as long as you're just thinking
(08:45):
your plan, and you go in and you're thinking about
just the first stroke, you're not thinking further on down
because you've got your plan. You know what you're doing next.
Once you've done the first stroke, you know it, and
so you're just thinking of that first stroke because that's
so important. Then you do that, and then you do
your race. You can't chase somebody else, and you're not
(09:06):
fast at the start like Lisa and Amy. They are
so different in their race technique. So Amy can't go
out fast like Lisa, so she shouldn't try to. She
shouldn't try and beat Visa, otherwise she will blow up.
So Amy's got to do her race, go out her
pace and come on strong at the end, and Lisa's
(09:28):
got to try and hold her off at the end.
So you know, you've really got to just do your race.
And I don't remember when I first started, I was
always trying to race the winner and because they are
the top, and it just doesn't work. It's race your race.
And as long as you've got your own plan in
your own mind, you're so busy there keeping in that
zone that you can do your best race. And that's
(09:49):
what's so difficult, because there's there's people around you, there's
boats coming up beside you. Oh it is it is hard.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh it's wonderful hearing you talk like this.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Now that I know that, I wish I was younger.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Two quick things, I still I still wish that as well.
And lately, because it's the Olympics, I'm having these and
dreams where I'm getting ready for racing and I can't
can't find the boat, can't find you racing singleer. Oh's
a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That's good, those anxiety dreams. Two things before you go in.
So you mentioned Amy fishon of course Dame Lisa Carrington,
and that's just been some kind of rivalry, very exciting.
They both race tonight seven thirty in the women's K
one five hundred Heat one, and then of course Lisa
are five minutes later in the second heat. Who do
you think will actually win? Or was that unfair? Is
(10:40):
that unfair to ask?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That is a bit unfair because I love them both
a both beautiful girl in there, and yeah, they've got
different personalities and they race totally different as well, but
they're so damn close who ever just has just has
one fraction of an advantage on that day or just
something will be in their lappe. It's the lucky one
(11:03):
of those two will win, okay, because they're so close,
and yeah, I just hope they just do both do
their own race. That guarantees us the first and second
never done in kayaking history before for us, So that would.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Be that would be amazing. And last question, as we
mentioned in your introduction in five time Olympic medalists, which
is just extraordinary. Four golds, one silver. Last thing because
I'm always fascinated to know for me immortals, you'd think, well,
if you get an Olympic medal, that's just just unreal.
But is there a sense of disappointment like you got
four golds? Is there a sense of disappointment when you
(11:38):
get a silver? Do you feel oh.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Man, oh yeah there is, yeah, definitely, especially with that race.
We hadn't been beaten for a couple of years and
we were you know, you have good luck, you have
bad luck, and on that day we had bad luck.
There was we were in the worst lane. It was
a side headwind, so it was really bad for the
person on the worst lane. It was. We looked at
(12:04):
it on this morning of that race and thought, as
we're lining up, were going, there's no way we should winness,
and we're just going to go like hell, and so
we're really given up chance of winning a goal. But
so in a way, we were just happy we won
the silver. And we always look back on that race
as our best ever race because we still were so
(12:24):
close to winning, and yet we shouldn't have been anywhere
near there. The second favorites came dead last in the
lane next to us, so that's how you know. So
that was our best ever race, even though it was
the silver. So we can look back at that and
say well done to ourselves. But nobody else.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Winning is where he's talking about Paul McDonald, of course.
And last thing we said last week's great. Where do
you keep your medals?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Uh? I can't tell you. Someone might come here, someone
might just come and steal them. Just in my wardrobe. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Do you ever do you ever when you get up
in the morning, you know you're in your undies, do
you ever go to the drawer and just put them
all on, five of them, just see them dangling there?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, telling.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Mate, what are you fantasizing something Simon, and we have
loved chatting with you. It's just such a great insight.
Thank you for being so generous with your time. Mate,
go well, okay, thanks I Ferguson what a champ? Yeah man,
he he was dummy.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
For more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons, listen
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