September 16, 2025 • 8 mins
The Government wants to see more careers in the aviation sector take off.
It's launched the first ever aviation strategy which is designed to future proof the sector, and promote tourism and economic growth.
Airline Industry Association NZ CEO Simon Wallace joined the Afternoons team to discuss the benefits of these changes.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKSB Follow this and
our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hopes that the government's aviation Action Plan can help more
pilots take off. The government has released the first ever
strategy for the sector. Part of that commitment is to
look at pilot education and create a workforce plan in
areas where there are big skills shortages. To discuss more,
we're joined by Airline Industry Association New Zealand chief executive
Simon Wallace, who's on the phone now, Simon. Very good
(00:37):
afternoon to.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You, Good afternoon to you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
So Simon, what's the most important change for the industry
in this plan?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Look, I think the really good thing is that we've
got an action plan and aviation. It's a government industry plan.
It's got the buying of industry. It's got some clear
deliverables with dates on it. It's not just another white
paper that's going to be put on the shelf. And
there's a lot of really good things in here around
workforce regulation, infrastructure is a number of really positive things.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Can you explain this to me? Or hockey is being
made permanently available for large passenger aircraft. Does that overflow
or emergency or is that actually using it as a
commercial airport?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, that side a flower on an emergency when there's
problems at Alkrind or christ Hitch, for example, and some
of those larger jets triple sevens or eight three eighties
can't land at either of those two airports. There's now
the ability, I think it's from the end of twenty
twenty six, to be able to use that facility. So
that has been a work in progress and it is
one of the good things that's in this plan.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
It's an impressive setup they've got there. It's basically a
full airport. You've got the departure lounges, you've got you've
got the seating, you've got the carousel, youve got everything
down there. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Now original airlines have obviously we hear about this, been
struggling with pilot shortages and costs. What's causing that. I
mean a few years ago it seemed like we didn't
have enough pilots. I mean we had too many pilots
and pilots couldn't get jobs.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, but I think since you know, we're five years old,
now from the pandemic demanders, customer demand has come back
globally and here in New Zealand as well. And we've
had a period when our flight training schools haven't had
the numbers, haven't been training the numbers. And you know,
now we now that demand has come back. We're around
about one hundred pilots short in New Zealand each year.
(02:28):
And look, I think the big thing here is that
we don't have favorable policy settings to get young kiwis
into into flight training. And that's one of the big
things in this plan that is going to have a
real focus.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
We're talking to Simon Wallace, Chief Executive Aviation Industry Association,
New Zealand. So further to that, how long and how
much does it currently take and cost to become a pilot,
including we keep hearing about this all the hours you
realistically need to get in to get a well paying
job after you certified.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, look, it's quite hard to break this all down,
but you know, at the moment there's a fifty thousand deficit,
so that the government will only we only loan up
to seventy thousand dollars for what's essentially an eighteen months
to two year program. The cost of tuition fees for
pilot training is in the order of one hundred to
one hundred and twenty thousand. We haven't had that seventy
(03:22):
thousand don't a seventy thousand dollars loan cap change since
twenty thirteen. So what we're doing here is we're increasingly
locking out young kiwis from opting for a career in
as a pilot. It's only the well off. It's only
wealthy families that can afford to put their kids through
flight training, and we want all New Zealanders to have
(03:45):
that opportunity. So there's got to be some change here
around what's available to be lent. And you know, we
have officials saying to us that, you know, pilots don't
pay them their loans back in a timely manner. Yeah. Sure,
they don't pay them back as quickly as as some
other occupations, but they do pay their loans back after
a period of time. It's a part really good career pathway.
(04:10):
So you know, there's got to be an open mind
around us so we can get more young qbs into
pilot training.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yeah, I mean, especially since we need pilots now. It's
obviously cheaper to get your hours in a simulator as
opposed to taking up an aircraft. Simulator is good enough
to count for training.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's part, it's part of it. You've got to have
that time in the year you have any any instructor
and I'm not I'm not a pilot or an instructor,
but you know you have to have that time in
the year. It's all, it's all part of it's all
part of the training, you know. I know the government
is really the Minister James Meek said said at our
conference that you know, we want the training time frame
(04:50):
to be condensed into a year. You know, we would
like that too, but it's very it's very challenging in
terms of the fact that we were short of flight instructors.
We've got a qualifications framework, it's not set up to
deliver it in a year, so that we need government
agencies to come to the party. And actually New Zealand
climate is an issue as well, because we're not an
Arizona where you can where you can fly almost every
(05:13):
day of the year, so we you know that that
is that is a reality as well, so we're not
we want to be able to work with the government
about how we can content condense that training that training
time frame. But there's a few things we've got to
got to get over the line first.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
That's interesting about New Zealand conditions come in which particular
West Indian Cricketer said that you have to be the
best pilot in the world to land in New Zealand
because you have to land the plane sideways. So do
you have to be a better pilot than you have
to be saying the outback of Australia or as you say, Arizona,
you have.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
To be a really good pilot in Wellington today it's
blowing a gale. But I think that's what makes that
that's that's about the quality of our training because you know,
New Zealand pilots learned to fly in really challenging conditions
and it's not just the weather, it's the terrain as well.
So that that that really goes to the quality of
(06:08):
our of our training provision in New Zealand to pilots.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Clearly that makes them pretty in demand internationally. Simon, what
about the idea and it wasn't part of the plan,
but there was some discussions about the idea of retention
that you make it easier to become a pilot, but
then you sign on to a retention scheme that you've
got to work in the country for a year. Is
there any benefit to an idea like that.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think all that's got to be looked at. You know,
in New Zealand's got their cadet program that they launched
last year and they've got a bonding scheme of sorts.
I'm not familiar with all the details, but you know
that is happening. That happens in other professions, so that's
you know, there has to be part of the discussion
as well.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So looking at these if these reforms succeed, how much
better or how different will the aviation industry in New
Zealand look? And you know, ten years down the track,
all this will the solve our problems.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's got to be progress. You know, we've been talking
about the stuff for ten years and there's got to
be some change here and not where we are really
positive as an association and as an industry about this plan,
but there hasn't been an action plan in aviation for
more than a couple of decades. So we've now got
that and we've we've got to make good with it,
And can I just say one other thing, there's an
(07:21):
engineer shortage as well, and the shortages and in the engineering.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Industry, any controllers, well.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Any traffic controllers. We're struggling to get ear traffic controllers
and places where they really needed, like Queenstown. So there's
a whole lot of things going on.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
What's the pathway for those two professions, like what's the
engineer pathway? Like in the air traffic control training?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Look, look, I can talk to the engineer one, not
so much of an expert on the on the e
traffic controllers. But you know, we're only training. We've only
got about one hundred four more training places for aviation
engineers in New Zealand through through nm T through in
New Zealand and the Defense Force. It's not it's not enough.
(08:04):
And we do we have demand from young young New
zealand as wanting to be aviation engineers. And it's not
the same kind of we're not looking the same kind
of of fees to train to be an engineer as
we are a pilot. So it is affordable, we just
have to make it accessible. And we're three hundred short
and we're relying on immigration government's got a growth agenda.
(08:28):
We want to support that growth agender, but we need
to engineer to sign off our planes as well.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, Simon, really good to get your expertise and thoughts
on this. Thank you very much for joining us, and
we really hope it starts to make a difference because
it is a massive industry in New Zealand. The amount
of people employed and we heard earlier six percent of
GDP of the country in terms of the amount of
people they employ and the money they bring in.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
In the aviation sector. Yeah, wow, that's percent.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yep, that's big.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Well sort it out.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKSB Follow this and
our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hopes that the government's aviation Action Plan can help more
pilots take off. The government has released the first ever
strategy for the sector. Part of that commitment is to
look at pilot education and create a workforce plan in
areas where there are big skills shortages. To discuss more,
we're joined by Airline Industry Association New Zealand chief executive
Simon Wallace, who's on the phone now, Simon. Very good
(00:37):
afternoon to.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You, Good afternoon to you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
So Simon, what's the most important change for the industry
in this plan?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Look, I think the really good thing is that we've
got an action plan and aviation. It's a government industry plan.
It's got the buying of industry. It's got some clear
deliverables with dates on it. It's not just another white
paper that's going to be put on the shelf. And
there's a lot of really good things in here around
workforce regulation, infrastructure is a number of really positive things.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Can you explain this to me? Or hockey is being
made permanently available for large passenger aircraft. Does that overflow
or emergency or is that actually using it as a
commercial airport?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, that side a flower on an emergency when there's
problems at Alkrind or christ Hitch, for example, and some
of those larger jets triple sevens or eight three eighties
can't land at either of those two airports. There's now
the ability, I think it's from the end of twenty
twenty six, to be able to use that facility. So
that has been a work in progress and it is
one of the good things that's in this plan.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
It's an impressive setup they've got there. It's basically a
full airport. You've got the departure lounges, you've got you've
got the seating, you've got the carousel, youve got everything
down there. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Now original airlines have obviously we hear about this, been
struggling with pilot shortages and costs. What's causing that. I
mean a few years ago it seemed like we didn't
have enough pilots. I mean we had too many pilots
and pilots couldn't get jobs.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, but I think since you know, we're five years old,
now from the pandemic demanders, customer demand has come back
globally and here in New Zealand as well. And we've
had a period when our flight training schools haven't had
the numbers, haven't been training the numbers. And you know,
now we now that demand has come back. We're around
about one hundred pilots short in New Zealand each year.
(02:28):
And look, I think the big thing here is that
we don't have favorable policy settings to get young kiwis
into into flight training. And that's one of the big
things in this plan that is going to have a
real focus.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
We're talking to Simon Wallace, Chief Executive Aviation Industry Association,
New Zealand. So further to that, how long and how
much does it currently take and cost to become a pilot,
including we keep hearing about this all the hours you
realistically need to get in to get a well paying
job after you certified.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, look, it's quite hard to break this all down,
but you know, at the moment there's a fifty thousand deficit,
so that the government will only we only loan up
to seventy thousand dollars for what's essentially an eighteen months
to two year program. The cost of tuition fees for
pilot training is in the order of one hundred to
one hundred and twenty thousand. We haven't had that seventy
(03:22):
thousand don't a seventy thousand dollars loan cap change since
twenty thirteen. So what we're doing here is we're increasingly
locking out young kiwis from opting for a career in
as a pilot. It's only the well off. It's only
wealthy families that can afford to put their kids through
flight training, and we want all New Zealanders to have
(03:45):
that opportunity. So there's got to be some change here
around what's available to be lent. And you know, we
have officials saying to us that, you know, pilots don't
pay them their loans back in a timely manner. Yeah. Sure,
they don't pay them back as quickly as as some
other occupations, but they do pay their loans back after
a period of time. It's a part really good career pathway.
(04:10):
So you know, there's got to be an open mind
around us so we can get more young qbs into
pilot training.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yeah, I mean, especially since we need pilots now. It's
obviously cheaper to get your hours in a simulator as
opposed to taking up an aircraft. Simulator is good enough
to count for training.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's part, it's part of it. You've got to have
that time in the year you have any any instructor
and I'm not I'm not a pilot or an instructor,
but you know you have to have that time in
the year. It's all, it's all part of it's all
part of the training, you know. I know the government
is really the Minister James Meek said said at our
conference that you know, we want the training time frame
(04:50):
to be condensed into a year. You know, we would
like that too, but it's very it's very challenging in
terms of the fact that we were short of flight instructors.
We've got a qualifications framework, it's not set up to
deliver it in a year, so that we need government
agencies to come to the party. And actually New Zealand
climate is an issue as well, because we're not an
Arizona where you can where you can fly almost every
(05:13):
day of the year, so we you know that that
is that is a reality as well, so we're not
we want to be able to work with the government
about how we can content condense that training that training
time frame. But there's a few things we've got to
got to get over the line first.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
That's interesting about New Zealand conditions come in which particular
West Indian Cricketer said that you have to be the
best pilot in the world to land in New Zealand
because you have to land the plane sideways. So do
you have to be a better pilot than you have
to be saying the outback of Australia or as you say, Arizona,
you have.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
To be a really good pilot in Wellington today it's
blowing a gale. But I think that's what makes that
that's that's about the quality of our training because you know,
New Zealand pilots learned to fly in really challenging conditions
and it's not just the weather, it's the terrain as well.
So that that that really goes to the quality of
(06:08):
our of our training provision in New Zealand to pilots.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Clearly that makes them pretty in demand internationally. Simon, what
about the idea and it wasn't part of the plan,
but there was some discussions about the idea of retention
that you make it easier to become a pilot, but
then you sign on to a retention scheme that you've
got to work in the country for a year. Is
there any benefit to an idea like that.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think all that's got to be looked at. You know,
in New Zealand's got their cadet program that they launched
last year and they've got a bonding scheme of sorts.
I'm not familiar with all the details, but you know
that is happening. That happens in other professions, so that's
you know, there has to be part of the discussion
as well.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So looking at these if these reforms succeed, how much
better or how different will the aviation industry in New
Zealand look? And you know, ten years down the track,
all this will the solve our problems.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's got to be progress. You know, we've been talking
about the stuff for ten years and there's got to
be some change here and not where we are really
positive as an association and as an industry about this plan,
but there hasn't been an action plan in aviation for
more than a couple of decades. So we've now got
that and we've we've got to make good with it,
And can I just say one other thing, there's an
(07:21):
engineer shortage as well, and the shortages and in the engineering.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Industry, any controllers, well.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Any traffic controllers. We're struggling to get ear traffic controllers
and places where they really needed, like Queenstown. So there's
a whole lot of things going on.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
What's the pathway for those two professions, like what's the
engineer pathway? Like in the air traffic control training?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Look, look, I can talk to the engineer one, not
so much of an expert on the on the e
traffic controllers. But you know, we're only training. We've only
got about one hundred four more training places for aviation
engineers in New Zealand through through nm T through in
New Zealand and the Defense Force. It's not it's not enough.
(08:04):
And we do we have demand from young young New
zealand as wanting to be aviation engineers. And it's not
the same kind of we're not looking the same kind
of of fees to train to be an engineer as
we are a pilot. So it is affordable, we just
have to make it accessible. And we're three hundred short
and we're relying on immigration government's got a growth agenda.
(08:28):
We want to support that growth agender, but we need
to engineer to sign off our planes as well.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, Simon, really good to get your expertise and thoughts
on this. Thank you very much for joining us, and
we really hope it starts to make a difference because
it is a massive industry in New Zealand. The amount
of people employed and we heard earlier six percent of
GDP of the country in terms of the amount of
people they employ and the money they bring in.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
In the aviation sector. Yeah, wow, that's percent.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yep, that's big.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Well sort it out.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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