June 2, 2025 • 9 mins
The ongoing economic downturn has sparked discussion about the best kinds of careers to take on.
The hospitality sector comes with plenty of benefits and drawbacks, but one expert joined the Afternoons team to explain whether it's worth the trouble to become a chef.
Warwick Brown joined the Afternoons team to explain further.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good afternoon. We're talking about becoming a chef. Is that
still a wise career choice? Met you at a family
member who said to your two boys, he forbade them
from ever getting into cheffing because it is an incredibly
tough profession and put him through the wringer.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Can I just say, Tyler before you continue on, it's Michelin,
not Michellin.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Michalin Michelin. It is French.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, you thank you very much. You were saying Michelin.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, Michelin, it's for bade and it's Michelin right on
the line right now. Is a fantastic person to chet
to Warwick Brown, he has been a chef, restaurant being
in the restaurant trade all his life, has worked for
Michelin restaurants in the bars as well. Warwick, very good
afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, hi guys, is that the correct pronunciation that he's
getting there? Is it Michelin Michelin? So Warwick is cheffing
a career that you would recommend to a young person?
In twenty twenty five one.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Hundred percent, one hundred percent. It's like today's world becoming
a trade person, having a skill, whether it be a
draft person, electrician, plumber. Chef pulls into that category. Cheffing
is a fabulous business. It's a fabulous career to the end.
But just I'd like to know why people would not
(01:37):
recommend it. But you know, if you're an architect or
a designer or real estate agent, you're at the top
of your game. You're earning good money, good lifestyle, travel
the world. No different from becoming a chef. There are
loads of chefs out there worldwide, including New Zealand, who
work in kitchens. They work hard, they're passionate, but unfortunately
(02:00):
they don't move up the ladder. And what happens becoming
a chef, it's all about image. Can be very egotistical.
You need a profile. Once you have that profile, that
turns into dollars and that then turns into opportunities. And
there are lots of chefs in New Zealand that that's
happened to. I was one of the lucky ones. I
(02:22):
left school when I was fifteen. I did a food
and Beverage hotel management degree, became a chef, took off
to France and spent my early days working in very
high profile restaurants Wow, which basically gave me my ground spot.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So when you say you have been very successful and
you know you have to have your profile, and you
also describe yourself as lucky, this is probably a difficult
question to answer. But there's twenty five thousand chefs in
New Zealand currently. What percentage of them can expect to
do very well?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Five percent?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So then would you say so when you say it's
a great profession, is it a great profession if you
start off and you have all how quickly can you
notice that? Because someone might spend thirty years in go
nowhere shifting, But how quickly could you tell if you
were one of the people that was going to be
like you and was going to be a superstar.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I've had many young chefs work for me in all
the restaurants that I've had in Auckland over the years,
and they've gone on to become great chefs. They're working
in Australia, they're working in London, they're working in New York,
they're working, they're doing extremely well. It's very difficult in
New Zealand. New Zealand at the moment, it's got some
great restaurants. It has and this is debatable for me.
(03:45):
It has reasonable food, reasonable has great restaurants. It struggles
to get staff that are dedicated and passionate because go
back fifteen twenty years ago, owner operators were at fault.
They didn't have great facilities, They built terrible kitchens, they
never invested funds, they had bad equipment for chefs, and
(04:09):
this will reflects on the job and the capabilities that
you can run a good menu at. Fast forward to
twenty twenty five. It's improved, but if you look at
what's available around the world, New Zealand is very dead
in that market. We just do not spend the money
(04:31):
in those kinds of environments to attract good workers.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right looking at and I want to come back to
that Warwick. But this image that we have of particularly
at the high level, and you've been at the highest
you can get in the world, but you think about
the pressure cooker environment and it's dramatized and the beer
and Gordon Ramsey and Marco Pyear, is that truly what
it's like at that level? And is that why some
(04:56):
chiefs just don't make the distance.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Twenty five years ago, I would say it was twenty
twenty five, I would say it's not. For the last
ten years I spent I spent five months of the
year traveling the world looking at food ideas. I'm about
to leave in two weeks time for five months in Europe,
and I visit kitchens, markets, hospitals, airline catering kitchens. You
(05:22):
do not see that environment anymore right now.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
There's a certain amount of creativity in becoming an high
level shift like yourself, what work, But a lot of
people wouldn't ever. You know, a lot of people would
spend their career as a shift just making other people's recipes. Right,
How hard is it to move up from being someone
that's making the food to someone that's creating the menu
and arguably creating food art.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, you know, you have to be very passionate about food.
You have to be prepared for long hours. I remember,
going back quite a few years now, especially when I
had Chinchin, which was a big, high profile restaurant in Auckland,
one hundred hours a week would be nothing to me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Wow, yeah, bag out and that's not for everyone wick.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
No, No, it's not. Then, But then you know, there
are thousands of young kids who are plumbers, who are
great plumbers, and then there's five to scent of those
plumbers who are innovative, passionate, come up with new ideas
and have their own business and employ people no different
from a chef. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now, I just want to come back to what you
said about our food scene, Warwick and the investment that's
needed and the quality of our offering. Is that partly
to do with our culture here in New Zealand, that
we don't tend to go out as much as we should,
that there's not that backing traditionally from the from the punter.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So which next week when I'm flying to I'm flying
to est Opona, which is in southern Spain. So I
spend quite a bit of time in Marbeya, Spain, and
then I go up to San Sebastian. The streets will
be dead up until ten o'clock at night. From ten
till two in the morning, every restaurant is ramped, jam packed, bars,
tapest bars, everybody having a fabulous time. Because in Europe
(07:14):
people have small accommodations, they live on the street. Come
back to New Zealand, we have big villas, in Mount Eden,
we all go into our villa, closed the door, the
streets are dead.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So yeah, no you continue, sorry, sorry, Warrick.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So it's that type of environment, you know that. And
also we've got five million people that live in New Zealand,
probably only four and then you've got Auckland City which
has just had a blowout of restaurant developments. There are
some that are that are opening up in the last
three or four months with high profile operators obviously being
recognized over the weekend and the rewards, and they do
(07:52):
really well. But if you dig drill down into those owners,
they're high profile owners that have worked one hundred hours
a week over the years.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So we've got this text here coming through just finally,
thank you so much for you call, really appreciate it.
But the top five percent, this person's said, how much
money would the top five percent make? What could you
expect if you do well to make as a chef?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Okay, So so if you forget about being an owner operator, right,
So say, for instance, you are a high profile chef,
So let's let's let's look at Superyots New Zealand. Chef
from the main Superot office in at even the southern France.
They are a wanted commodity. They want New Zealand chefs.
(08:37):
They love them. So I put a chef on a
job five months ago, big, big boat, one hundred and
twenty five meters crew of forty. His salary twelve thousand
euros net tax free per week.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That is big money.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Okay. So that's on a super yocht where there's no
such word as no. If you say no, they'll put
you off the boat and find someone else.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Just in the kitchen, Yeah, just in the kitchen.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So for that, the owners prepared to pay you that
kind of money.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
What's another one hundred thousand euro a year? You wouldn't
say no, would you?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Correct? So another good friend of mine, he's Canadian but
has lived in New Zealand. He's the vice president of
Emirates Flight Kitchen. He's on two hundred and twenty thousand
US year.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
All right, So it's if you're in the top five percent,
then you can do very well. Thank you so much
for your call.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Fascinating chat. Thank you very much. That was Warwick Brown,
renowned restaurant tour and chef.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online. And keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good afternoon. We're talking about becoming a chef. Is that
still a wise career choice? Met you at a family
member who said to your two boys, he forbade them
from ever getting into cheffing because it is an incredibly
tough profession and put him through the wringer.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Can I just say, Tyler before you continue on, it's Michelin,
not Michellin.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Michalin Michelin. It is French.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, you thank you very much. You were saying Michelin.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, Michelin, it's for bade and it's Michelin right on
the line right now. Is a fantastic person to chet
to Warwick Brown, he has been a chef, restaurant being
in the restaurant trade all his life, has worked for
Michelin restaurants in the bars as well. Warwick, very good
afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, hi guys, is that the correct pronunciation that he's
getting there? Is it Michelin Michelin? So Warwick is cheffing
a career that you would recommend to a young person?
In twenty twenty five one.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Hundred percent, one hundred percent. It's like today's world becoming
a trade person, having a skill, whether it be a
draft person, electrician, plumber. Chef pulls into that category. Cheffing
is a fabulous business. It's a fabulous career to the end.
But just I'd like to know why people would not
(01:37):
recommend it. But you know, if you're an architect or
a designer or real estate agent, you're at the top
of your game. You're earning good money, good lifestyle, travel
the world. No different from becoming a chef. There are
loads of chefs out there worldwide, including New Zealand, who
work in kitchens. They work hard, they're passionate, but unfortunately
(02:00):
they don't move up the ladder. And what happens becoming
a chef, it's all about image. Can be very egotistical.
You need a profile. Once you have that profile, that
turns into dollars and that then turns into opportunities. And
there are lots of chefs in New Zealand that that's
happened to. I was one of the lucky ones. I
(02:22):
left school when I was fifteen. I did a food
and Beverage hotel management degree, became a chef, took off
to France and spent my early days working in very
high profile restaurants Wow, which basically gave me my ground spot.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So when you say you have been very successful and
you know you have to have your profile, and you
also describe yourself as lucky, this is probably a difficult
question to answer. But there's twenty five thousand chefs in
New Zealand currently. What percentage of them can expect to
do very well?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Five percent?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So then would you say so when you say it's
a great profession, is it a great profession if you
start off and you have all how quickly can you
notice that? Because someone might spend thirty years in go
nowhere shifting, But how quickly could you tell if you
were one of the people that was going to be
like you and was going to be a superstar.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I've had many young chefs work for me in all
the restaurants that I've had in Auckland over the years,
and they've gone on to become great chefs. They're working
in Australia, they're working in London, they're working in New York,
they're working, they're doing extremely well. It's very difficult in
New Zealand. New Zealand at the moment, it's got some
great restaurants. It has and this is debatable for me.
(03:45):
It has reasonable food, reasonable has great restaurants. It struggles
to get staff that are dedicated and passionate because go
back fifteen twenty years ago, owner operators were at fault.
They didn't have great facilities, They built terrible kitchens, they
never invested funds, they had bad equipment for chefs, and
(04:09):
this will reflects on the job and the capabilities that
you can run a good menu at. Fast forward to
twenty twenty five. It's improved, but if you look at
what's available around the world, New Zealand is very dead
in that market. We just do not spend the money
(04:31):
in those kinds of environments to attract good workers.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right looking at and I want to come back to
that Warwick. But this image that we have of particularly
at the high level, and you've been at the highest
you can get in the world, but you think about
the pressure cooker environment and it's dramatized and the beer
and Gordon Ramsey and Marco Pyear, is that truly what
it's like at that level? And is that why some
(04:56):
chiefs just don't make the distance.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Twenty five years ago, I would say it was twenty
twenty five, I would say it's not. For the last
ten years I spent I spent five months of the
year traveling the world looking at food ideas. I'm about
to leave in two weeks time for five months in Europe,
and I visit kitchens, markets, hospitals, airline catering kitchens. You
(05:22):
do not see that environment anymore right now.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
There's a certain amount of creativity in becoming an high
level shift like yourself, what work, But a lot of
people wouldn't ever. You know, a lot of people would
spend their career as a shift just making other people's recipes. Right,
How hard is it to move up from being someone
that's making the food to someone that's creating the menu
and arguably creating food art.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, you know, you have to be very passionate about food.
You have to be prepared for long hours. I remember,
going back quite a few years now, especially when I
had Chinchin, which was a big, high profile restaurant in Auckland,
one hundred hours a week would be nothing to me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Wow, yeah, bag out and that's not for everyone wick.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
No, No, it's not. Then, But then you know, there
are thousands of young kids who are plumbers, who are
great plumbers, and then there's five to scent of those
plumbers who are innovative, passionate, come up with new ideas
and have their own business and employ people no different
from a chef. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now, I just want to come back to what you
said about our food scene, Warwick and the investment that's
needed and the quality of our offering. Is that partly
to do with our culture here in New Zealand, that
we don't tend to go out as much as we should,
that there's not that backing traditionally from the from the punter.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So which next week when I'm flying to I'm flying
to est Opona, which is in southern Spain. So I
spend quite a bit of time in Marbeya, Spain, and
then I go up to San Sebastian. The streets will
be dead up until ten o'clock at night. From ten
till two in the morning, every restaurant is ramped, jam packed, bars,
tapest bars, everybody having a fabulous time. Because in Europe
(07:14):
people have small accommodations, they live on the street. Come
back to New Zealand, we have big villas, in Mount Eden,
we all go into our villa, closed the door, the
streets are dead.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So yeah, no you continue, sorry, sorry, Warrick.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So it's that type of environment, you know that. And
also we've got five million people that live in New Zealand,
probably only four and then you've got Auckland City which
has just had a blowout of restaurant developments. There are
some that are that are opening up in the last
three or four months with high profile operators obviously being
recognized over the weekend and the rewards, and they do
(07:52):
really well. But if you dig drill down into those owners,
they're high profile owners that have worked one hundred hours
a week over the years.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So we've got this text here coming through just finally,
thank you so much for you call, really appreciate it.
But the top five percent, this person's said, how much
money would the top five percent make? What could you
expect if you do well to make as a chef?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Okay, So so if you forget about being an owner operator, right,
So say, for instance, you are a high profile chef,
So let's let's let's look at Superyots New Zealand. Chef
from the main Superot office in at even the southern France.
They are a wanted commodity. They want New Zealand chefs.
(08:37):
They love them. So I put a chef on a
job five months ago, big, big boat, one hundred and
twenty five meters crew of forty. His salary twelve thousand
euros net tax free per week.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That is big money.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Okay. So that's on a super yocht where there's no
such word as no. If you say no, they'll put
you off the boat and find someone else.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Just in the kitchen, Yeah, just in the kitchen.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So for that, the owners prepared to pay you that
kind of money.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
What's another one hundred thousand euro a year? You wouldn't
say no, would you?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Correct? So another good friend of mine, he's Canadian but
has lived in New Zealand. He's the vice president of
Emirates Flight Kitchen. He's on two hundred and twenty thousand
US year.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
All right, So it's if you're in the top five percent,
then you can do very well. Thank you so much
for your call.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Fascinating chat. Thank you very much. That was Warwick Brown,
renowned restaurant tour and chef.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online. And keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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