October 28, 2025 • 16 mins
Ahead of their New Zealand tour this November, Margo from Cowboy Junkies called up to talk about staying true to their sound, protecting the band’s bond and how they find joy in simply playing together after four decades.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome Radio Hodokes Off the Record podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
With Big Sandy's.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Thank you so much for meeting with me. Margo. We're
very excited to have you coming over to New Zealand
next week for your tour.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I know everybody keeps saying next week, and I go,
really next week. It's happening so fast.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So I've been a massive fan of Cowboy Junkies first
when it was actually when I first heard Sweet Jane
in the nineties, I had the Natural Born Killers soundtrack
and it was the tape that me and my friend
Nicki played on our road trip around New Zealand, and
we keep going back to that song. Can you take
me back to the story of how it came about? Like,
(00:47):
what was it about that song that made you feel
like it was something that you guys wanted to record?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, I think that, you know, that's a long time ago.
But when we actually we're working on Sweet Jane for
our first album, Whit Soft Earth Now, and we were
a very very new band, and both Pete and I
were totally inexperienced. Pete is a drummer and as a singer,
(01:16):
and Pete could never get the stop or I couldn't
get the start or you know, it was. We were
struggling with it, and the reason we wanted to do
it was because the Velvet Underground and Lee Read were
such an influential band in our upbringing. And and also too,
(01:37):
you know, sweet Chain is such a perfect, you know,
iconic pop song. It's just perfect. It's perfectly made and
so and I think, you know, that's why people are
so attracted to it. And it's been done by so
many bands in a million different ways, and it's even
by us. We've we've recovered it and covered it again
(01:58):
and changed it this way and that way. So we
chose it for that reason. We wanted to put it
on White Soft Earth Now, but we really never got
a version of it that was in time. And then
by the time we did Trinity Session, we were able
to play the song properly and it made its way
(02:18):
on too Trinity Session, which is thank god it did,
because that the song changed our lives.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Do you think because we recorded that in a church
that kind of leant into that dreamy feel, like that slower,
dreamy feel of what came across in the recording. Do
you think that helped?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Absolutely? I mean, the church plays a huge part of
that album. It's another instrument in a way, but that's
the way we were playing. We were very slow, we
were very huge long spaces in between silences. It sort
of was our you know, our you're thought, you know, well,
(03:01):
you know what we told each other if you didn't
if you didn't know what to play or didn't feel right,
just leave it open, you know, don't just fill the space.
And it was always our message to ourselves. And so
so the song was that we were playing it that way.
But definitely the church added to that extra layer of
it floating around.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I like how you say that there was the other instrument.
And the recording of the album.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Absolutely, I mean that album, if we recorded it elsewhere,
would have been a completely different record. So and also
to the way we recorded it. Recording it live, it
makes it very very real. If you had been sitting
in the church that day, that's what you would have heard.
There's no overdubbing, there's no mixing, there's no cutting, there's
(03:48):
nothing on that album. Not because we were so genius.
We just we recorded it with one microphone and didn't
have the facility to mess with it. So it is
what it is, and there's a beauty in that especially
especially in those days. You know, when when Trinity Session
came out, it was the era of huge, big bost stories, phone,
(04:13):
big production, and so Trinity Session sounded like a very
quiet album.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, no, I love that. So when you first started
making music with your brothers and Allen, was it more
like just kind of jamming together with the intention of
becoming a touring band or just making music with your
best mates? What was it? What was it like from
day one?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, Michael and Alan had been in bands prior to
Cowboy Junkies, and definitely playing music and being musicians was
their direction and that's, you know, what they wanted to do.
And so the last album, the last band they had
had had been in broke up. They were living in London, England,
and Mike moved back to Toronto with the intention actually
(04:58):
of going off to New York and he moved into
a house with my brother Pete and my brother John
was also in the city, and so they started jamming
in the garage because they just you know, he picked
up the drums because there were two guitars already, so
we might as well do the drums. And Alan eventually
(05:20):
came over back from London and they were jamming and
and Mike, you know, began to hear something in this
this jamming and there's something here. And he then asked
me if I wanted to sing, And that was a
very strange thing for him to do because I had
no intention of being a singer, and didn't you know,
(05:43):
I thought he was crazy, And and she said, you know, no,
I want to you know, I want a melodic, pretty voice,
and that's what you've got, So give it a try.
So I did, and once I sort of joined at
that point, Mike was definitely he was he was is
creating something. You know, he knew what he wanted and
(06:03):
he knew what he wanted to hear, and definitely my
voice was part of that and so he But when
I started singing, did I think I was joining a band? No,
absolutely not. I would never have done it. I would
I would have run away.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So you were just basically just singing for your brother
at that point.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
And that's actually how it happen because I, you know,
I'm not shy, but I'm not a showy person. So
I said to Mike that I'll sing for you, but
I'm not singing for everybody. You know, and if so.
I every night I'd come over and we would jam
a little bit in the garage. And then one night
(06:42):
he said, you know, are you're doing really well, let's
let's you know, let's let the boys in. And so
I said, okay, So they were allowed. I think it
took about three nights before before I'd let anybody else
hear me sing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's pretty cool, though, because you know, the race is
music history really now.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. You know, that's forty years ago,
so that that blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, So what do you remember about those first gigs?
Like you've gone from jemming and a garage to then
doing this in front of an audience. What was it
like for you?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That was terrifying? Terrifying? And I, you know, I remember
I wore a purple, big purple satin jacket and a
mini skirt. It's like, of course, remember it was the eighties,
so it was frightening. But the good thing and the
(07:42):
best thing that happened was my brother's especially Mike, knew
who I was and knew not to push me, you know,
so I would pretty much have my back to the audience.
I didn't sing very loud. Probably nobody could hear me,
but nobody say, you know, seeming louder, you know, talk
(08:02):
to the audience, dance or anything. They they allow me
to sort of slowly evolve into my own person and
to feel comfortable on stage. And and and and I did.
And now now the stage is my most comfortable place
to be. I'm I think I'm truest. My truest contentment
(08:27):
is when I'm I'm on stage, whether there's people there
or not, I just I'm really happy they'll be sitting.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
If you're looking back from like in the forty years
you were saying, is there anything from those early days
that still guides you guys as the band to the
way that you make music. Like you were saying earlier
about allowing space and the music.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
That's still that's still a primary rule, you know, don't
just fill space to fill space, you know, feel it
with something that that means something, or don't feel it
at all. That still important to us also too. I
think that the message is especially when we started to
(09:08):
get you know, people started to take notice of us,
was you know, we had to protect the music. It
wasn't you know, it was about the music and the
music came first, and that we knew that the industry
would try to tear us apart, and they certainly did.
They tried to you know, sign me separately and wanted
(09:30):
me to dump my brothers, and you know, and we
also realized that in order to make the music we
were making, it was about the four of us had
to be together. And that's the sound of Cowboy Junkies.
I mean, yes, I could have another drummer, I could
have another guitar player better worse than Mike and Pete
(09:50):
or how but it wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't
be the same sound. And so over the years, when
the industry or even ourselves, when you've fought and had
conflict in the band, what's resolved it is what comes
first is protecting the band so that we continue to
play and continue to make another album. And I think
(10:13):
that's that's why we're still together four years later. We've
always kept that in the forefront.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
As the recent day. That works.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Hey, yeah, you know, it's definitely worked. I mean, I
think it's part of why we you know, we're not
all living in multiple homes with lots of fancy cars,
but we're still together. You know, so I think maybe
if if we'd made different decisions, I don't think we
(10:42):
would still be together, but we probably would have had
a hit album, because in order to have a hit album,
you have to do certain things, and you know, if
it didn't feel right, we didn't do it, and things
like especially in those early days when there was a
lot of attention on me being being female, and you know,
(11:11):
everybody wanted to take my picture and you know, the boys,
my brothers. If I didn't feel comfortable, I didn't want
to do it. You know, nobody ever that the record
company tried to force me, but my brothers would be
behind me, saying, you know, you don't want to do it,
don't do it. And so I didn't, you know. And
I've never done anything that I've ever you know, regretted
(11:32):
or been embarrassed about, or you know, when we used
to have to do those videos, those music videos, which
I hated, you know, I would only say, all I'm
going to do in the video is sing. I'm not walking,
I'm not kissing anybody. I'm not getting on a horse,
I'm not you know, I'm just gonna seeing I'm a singer.
That's it. Of course, that made the people making the
(11:54):
videos crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But so it's really cool that your brothers allowed like
they predicted you in a sense and true to the music,
which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I mean absolutely. I mean I have a you know,
photo albums of those days, of those photo shoots, and
they they would come with these racks of clothing and
you know, they'd all be sequined and really glammed up,
and like go, nope, no, no, no no. And it's
not because it was bad. It was just not me
(12:27):
and I just felt foolish, and I didn't want to
feel foolish. I think part of it is I never
you know, becoming a front person in a band was
never my big dream. It was you know, I wanted
to get married and have six children like my mom.
So I didn't I didn't grow up having those visions.
(12:48):
My sisters, you know, one wanted to be in an
actress and the other wanted to be in fashion and
love that kind of glamor and attention. I I made
beds with my mom and the laundering. So it was
sort of you know a little bit ironic, and the
(13:09):
fate of the God's laughing at you that I'd be
the one that ended up in People magazine. But you know,
such as life, it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, So what keeps you all motivated to tour and
create music together after decades of starting out?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think playing music now is more fun, and I
think we need it more than we ever did. You know?
Playing with these guys that I've played with for forty
years is like breathing, and we can go wherever we
want to go without talking. We can we can rewrite
(13:46):
a song. We just do it. And if you think
it as somebody's thinking it, we can go in that direction.
And it's it's it's really quite something to be playing
like this and so much fun. You know, in the
old days, with all the record industry and all that
(14:08):
stuff and all the attention, there was so much other
busy noise in your head going on. Now. I don't
even care if anybody comes, you know. I mean, yes,
of course I want an audience, but if they didn't come,
I'd still play the show. I just wort like, and
I think the boys feel the same way. I mean,
(14:29):
it's not easy touring at sixty five, and the way
we tour, we don't have big, fancy tour buses. We
move around in vance you know, it's hard and physically hard,
but the music is just so much fun and there's
no more bs anymore. Even between the boys and I
(14:52):
were sort of, you know, we've had our arguments. They're
over now, we know what we're doing, and so it's easy.
It's very easy, and it's I think we all realize
how special it is for each of us.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, so you're coming to New Zealand next week, and
do you have any memories of previous trips to New
Zealand that stand out for you?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, not the last one. I'm the last one. I
was really sick and I spent most of my time
in the hotel room or the venue and missed a lot.
So I'm really excited to come back and enjoy enjoy
your country and enjoy your birds. I'm a burder, So
(15:36):
that's that's exciting. And the first one tour was so
long ago, I do you know, I do remember, you know,
some of the coasts and the beautiful beaches and things
like that. And I do remember on the first tour
seeing some fantastic birds. Mike and I are into that,
(15:57):
so we went off and fell them. So I'm really
I'm kind of looking forward to it. I feel like
I haven't been there the last tour. It doesn't count
for me.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, well you're going to have a fantastic time. Hey,
thanks so much for your time, Margot, and I'm really
looking forward to seeing you at the town Hall next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
We can't wait to play Thank You by Radio hoad
Aches off the Record podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Why not subscribe so they download automatically and don't forget
to rate us five stars?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Thanks mate.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Find out more about this podcast and the people who
make it at hodache dot co dot mz it
Welcome Radio Hodokes Off the Record podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
With Big Sandy's.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Thank you so much for meeting with me. Margo. We're
very excited to have you coming over to New Zealand
next week for your tour.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I know everybody keeps saying next week, and I go,
really next week. It's happening so fast.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So I've been a massive fan of Cowboy Junkies first
when it was actually when I first heard Sweet Jane
in the nineties, I had the Natural Born Killers soundtrack
and it was the tape that me and my friend
Nicki played on our road trip around New Zealand, and
we keep going back to that song. Can you take
me back to the story of how it came about? Like,
(00:47):
what was it about that song that made you feel
like it was something that you guys wanted to record?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, I think that, you know, that's a long time ago.
But when we actually we're working on Sweet Jane for
our first album, Whit Soft Earth Now, and we were
a very very new band, and both Pete and I
were totally inexperienced. Pete is a drummer and as a singer,
(01:16):
and Pete could never get the stop or I couldn't
get the start or you know, it was. We were
struggling with it, and the reason we wanted to do
it was because the Velvet Underground and Lee Read were
such an influential band in our upbringing. And and also too,
(01:37):
you know, sweet Chain is such a perfect, you know,
iconic pop song. It's just perfect. It's perfectly made and
so and I think, you know, that's why people are
so attracted to it. And it's been done by so
many bands in a million different ways, and it's even
by us. We've we've recovered it and covered it again
(01:58):
and changed it this way and that way. So we
chose it for that reason. We wanted to put it
on White Soft Earth Now, but we really never got
a version of it that was in time. And then
by the time we did Trinity Session, we were able
to play the song properly and it made its way
(02:18):
on too Trinity Session, which is thank god it did,
because that the song changed our lives.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Do you think because we recorded that in a church
that kind of leant into that dreamy feel, like that slower,
dreamy feel of what came across in the recording. Do
you think that helped?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Absolutely? I mean, the church plays a huge part of
that album. It's another instrument in a way, but that's
the way we were playing. We were very slow, we
were very huge long spaces in between silences. It sort
of was our you know, our you're thought, you know, well,
(03:01):
you know what we told each other if you didn't
if you didn't know what to play or didn't feel right,
just leave it open, you know, don't just fill the space.
And it was always our message to ourselves. And so
so the song was that we were playing it that way.
But definitely the church added to that extra layer of
it floating around.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I like how you say that there was the other instrument.
And the recording of the album.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Absolutely, I mean that album, if we recorded it elsewhere,
would have been a completely different record. So and also
to the way we recorded it. Recording it live, it
makes it very very real. If you had been sitting
in the church that day, that's what you would have heard.
There's no overdubbing, there's no mixing, there's no cutting, there's
(03:48):
nothing on that album. Not because we were so genius.
We just we recorded it with one microphone and didn't
have the facility to mess with it. So it is
what it is, and there's a beauty in that especially
especially in those days. You know, when when Trinity Session
came out, it was the era of huge, big bost stories, phone,
(04:13):
big production, and so Trinity Session sounded like a very
quiet album.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, no, I love that. So when you first started
making music with your brothers and Allen, was it more
like just kind of jamming together with the intention of
becoming a touring band or just making music with your
best mates? What was it? What was it like from
day one?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, Michael and Alan had been in bands prior to
Cowboy Junkies, and definitely playing music and being musicians was
their direction and that's, you know, what they wanted to do.
And so the last album, the last band they had
had had been in broke up. They were living in London, England,
and Mike moved back to Toronto with the intention actually
(04:58):
of going off to New York and he moved into
a house with my brother Pete and my brother John
was also in the city, and so they started jamming
in the garage because they just you know, he picked
up the drums because there were two guitars already, so
we might as well do the drums. And Alan eventually
(05:20):
came over back from London and they were jamming and
and Mike, you know, began to hear something in this
this jamming and there's something here. And he then asked
me if I wanted to sing, And that was a
very strange thing for him to do because I had
no intention of being a singer, and didn't you know,
(05:43):
I thought he was crazy, And and she said, you know, no,
I want to you know, I want a melodic, pretty voice,
and that's what you've got, So give it a try.
So I did, and once I sort of joined at
that point, Mike was definitely he was he was is
creating something. You know, he knew what he wanted and
(06:03):
he knew what he wanted to hear, and definitely my
voice was part of that and so he But when
I started singing, did I think I was joining a band? No,
absolutely not. I would never have done it. I would
I would have run away.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So you were just basically just singing for your brother
at that point.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
And that's actually how it happen because I, you know,
I'm not shy, but I'm not a showy person. So
I said to Mike that I'll sing for you, but
I'm not singing for everybody. You know, and if so.
I every night I'd come over and we would jam
a little bit in the garage. And then one night
(06:42):
he said, you know, are you're doing really well, let's
let's you know, let's let the boys in. And so
I said, okay, So they were allowed. I think it
took about three nights before before I'd let anybody else
hear me sing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's pretty cool, though, because you know, the race is
music history really now.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. You know, that's forty years ago,
so that that blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, So what do you remember about those first gigs?
Like you've gone from jemming and a garage to then
doing this in front of an audience. What was it
like for you?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That was terrifying? Terrifying? And I, you know, I remember
I wore a purple, big purple satin jacket and a
mini skirt. It's like, of course, remember it was the eighties,
so it was frightening. But the good thing and the
(07:42):
best thing that happened was my brother's especially Mike, knew
who I was and knew not to push me, you know,
so I would pretty much have my back to the audience.
I didn't sing very loud. Probably nobody could hear me,
but nobody say, you know, seeming louder, you know, talk
(08:02):
to the audience, dance or anything. They they allow me
to sort of slowly evolve into my own person and
to feel comfortable on stage. And and and and I did.
And now now the stage is my most comfortable place
to be. I'm I think I'm truest. My truest contentment
(08:27):
is when I'm I'm on stage, whether there's people there
or not, I just I'm really happy they'll be sitting.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
If you're looking back from like in the forty years
you were saying, is there anything from those early days
that still guides you guys as the band to the
way that you make music. Like you were saying earlier
about allowing space and the music.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
That's still that's still a primary rule, you know, don't
just fill space to fill space, you know, feel it
with something that that means something, or don't feel it
at all. That still important to us also too. I
think that the message is especially when we started to
(09:08):
get you know, people started to take notice of us,
was you know, we had to protect the music. It
wasn't you know, it was about the music and the
music came first, and that we knew that the industry
would try to tear us apart, and they certainly did.
They tried to you know, sign me separately and wanted
(09:30):
me to dump my brothers, and you know, and we
also realized that in order to make the music we
were making, it was about the four of us had
to be together. And that's the sound of Cowboy Junkies.
I mean, yes, I could have another drummer, I could
have another guitar player better worse than Mike and Pete
(09:50):
or how but it wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't
be the same sound. And so over the years, when
the industry or even ourselves, when you've fought and had
conflict in the band, what's resolved it is what comes
first is protecting the band so that we continue to
play and continue to make another album. And I think
(10:13):
that's that's why we're still together four years later. We've
always kept that in the forefront.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
As the recent day. That works.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Hey, yeah, you know, it's definitely worked. I mean, I
think it's part of why we you know, we're not
all living in multiple homes with lots of fancy cars,
but we're still together. You know, so I think maybe
if if we'd made different decisions, I don't think we
(10:42):
would still be together, but we probably would have had
a hit album, because in order to have a hit album,
you have to do certain things, and you know, if
it didn't feel right, we didn't do it, and things
like especially in those early days when there was a
lot of attention on me being being female, and you know,
(11:11):
everybody wanted to take my picture and you know, the boys,
my brothers. If I didn't feel comfortable, I didn't want
to do it. You know, nobody ever that the record
company tried to force me, but my brothers would be
behind me, saying, you know, you don't want to do it,
don't do it. And so I didn't, you know. And
I've never done anything that I've ever you know, regretted
(11:32):
or been embarrassed about, or you know, when we used
to have to do those videos, those music videos, which
I hated, you know, I would only say, all I'm
going to do in the video is sing. I'm not walking,
I'm not kissing anybody. I'm not getting on a horse,
I'm not you know, I'm just gonna seeing I'm a singer.
That's it. Of course, that made the people making the
(11:54):
videos crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But so it's really cool that your brothers allowed like
they predicted you in a sense and true to the music,
which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I mean absolutely. I mean I have a you know,
photo albums of those days, of those photo shoots, and
they they would come with these racks of clothing and
you know, they'd all be sequined and really glammed up,
and like go, nope, no, no, no no. And it's
not because it was bad. It was just not me
(12:27):
and I just felt foolish, and I didn't want to
feel foolish. I think part of it is I never
you know, becoming a front person in a band was
never my big dream. It was you know, I wanted
to get married and have six children like my mom.
So I didn't I didn't grow up having those visions.
(12:48):
My sisters, you know, one wanted to be in an
actress and the other wanted to be in fashion and
love that kind of glamor and attention. I I made
beds with my mom and the laundering. So it was
sort of you know a little bit ironic, and the
(13:09):
fate of the God's laughing at you that I'd be
the one that ended up in People magazine. But you know,
such as life, it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, So what keeps you all motivated to tour and
create music together after decades of starting out?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think playing music now is more fun, and I
think we need it more than we ever did. You know?
Playing with these guys that I've played with for forty
years is like breathing, and we can go wherever we
want to go without talking. We can we can rewrite
(13:46):
a song. We just do it. And if you think
it as somebody's thinking it, we can go in that direction.
And it's it's it's really quite something to be playing
like this and so much fun. You know, in the
old days, with all the record industry and all that
(14:08):
stuff and all the attention, there was so much other
busy noise in your head going on. Now. I don't
even care if anybody comes, you know. I mean, yes,
of course I want an audience, but if they didn't come,
I'd still play the show. I just wort like, and
I think the boys feel the same way. I mean,
(14:29):
it's not easy touring at sixty five, and the way
we tour, we don't have big, fancy tour buses. We
move around in vance you know, it's hard and physically hard,
but the music is just so much fun and there's
no more bs anymore. Even between the boys and I
(14:52):
were sort of, you know, we've had our arguments. They're
over now, we know what we're doing, and so it's easy.
It's very easy, and it's I think we all realize
how special it is for each of us.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, so you're coming to New Zealand next week, and
do you have any memories of previous trips to New
Zealand that stand out for you?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, not the last one. I'm the last one. I
was really sick and I spent most of my time
in the hotel room or the venue and missed a lot.
So I'm really excited to come back and enjoy enjoy
your country and enjoy your birds. I'm a burder, So
(15:36):
that's that's exciting. And the first one tour was so
long ago, I do you know, I do remember, you know,
some of the coasts and the beautiful beaches and things
like that. And I do remember on the first tour
seeing some fantastic birds. Mike and I are into that,
(15:57):
so we went off and fell them. So I'm really
I'm kind of looking forward to it. I feel like
I haven't been there the last tour. It doesn't count
for me.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, well you're going to have a fantastic time. Hey,
thanks so much for your time, Margot, and I'm really
looking forward to seeing you at the town Hall next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
We can't wait to play Thank You by Radio hoad
Aches off the Record podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Why not subscribe so they download automatically and don't forget
to rate us five stars?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Thanks mate.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Find out more about this podcast and the people who
make it at hodache dot co dot mz it
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