March 29, 2025 • 30 mins
This week, joined by Peter Holland, we review the Black Caps' and White Ferns' T20 campaigns, and await the outcome of a showdown between the players and administrators over rights issues and contracts under legal examination.
Your views welcome: onthefrontfoot20@gmail.com
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on
iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, take another pat now, well it's a trick. It
is out. The test is over.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Couldn't dismay?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh wow from a beaut it is out and hearing guys,
this delivery has in you.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Used to Bold.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello on the proNT Court. Best with you again. Letty
Happening in the World of Crickets a series when over
packet found for the Black Cat the White Ferns struggled
to make progress against the world's best our players at
odds with the inded c over contract rights issues. How
costly could it be? Seventy years this week since we
were dismissed for twenty six and I'm wanted record and
(01:10):
two umpires dispatched from the ICC umpire and penel one
probably didn't deserve it, Hi did Jeremy Coney And to
Peter Holland Peter Well nonto us was moose and he's
just returned from a holiday in Jordland. There were sighting
of moose down there.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yes, that was loved. I do love it down there,
but up in the Kempany coast quite easily.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Every seen him down there, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They're everywhere, aren't they. Moose Is everywhere mice moosey.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, hey, let's get on with it. Series win over Pakistan.
Were Pakistan good enough? Jerry?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I know they weren't. They were inexperienced side. They played
well in Auckland, didn't they? Pakistan the bet and I
felt the conditions and the shorter pitched bowling and bounce
from the taller bowlers O Rot Duffy's tears, they found
defending it pretty awkward and they therefore had to play aggressively.
(02:20):
And that means if you can't defend a ball, you're
unable to manipulate the ball around in between the big shots.
So you still need to do that. In twenty twenty crickets,
two fours and over is eight, but you need to
get the twos and the ones in between the big shots.
So yeah, I felt they couldn't do that, and so
(02:43):
they were defeated.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Really, most few were against the inclusion of guys like
Seifert and Finale and stuff, and I agree with you
on the point that you know, we should be looking
at players who are committing themselves to the New Zealand game.
But Seifert was probably the star of the show, wasn't he.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We're true, and Phil Allen's contributions were pretty good as well.
Given every chance, I don't think I I'm walking walking
away from my earlier comments, bearing in mind that the
team that Pakistan board, I still saw it as a
good opportunity. That said, I guess that I guess the
(03:22):
selectors are wanting to keep their options open, which is
a fair point with a World Cup, another World Cup
coming up, I think next year. So I'm I think, okay, fine,
we know they're there. They've shown some talent. Alan looked
a bit better. Sidered very good. I agree Anisian Nisian
was got a five wicket in the last one. It's hard.
(03:46):
It's hard to argue that said, I noticed it in
the one day squad. They brought in a few new players,
and now that that I do applaud and I'm pleased
about that. So so I guess they are broadening the
pool of of of of of players, and so for
that I have to dp my hat to to the
selectors and the coaches and the coaching team.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Jerry, We've missedter Duffy, haven't we. I mean he is
now becoming a first choice Pickersney for our one day
sides has to play.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I think Brian will be interesting, won't it. And I
don't know whether they can bully the Pakistan side that
they've selected, which is a much stronger Pakistan eleven I
think in the ode I's so that's going to be interesting.
But Duffy, yes, I agree with Moose. It's interesting, isn't it.
(04:38):
We're going to have some younger players, Kelly Mohammed a bass,
Addie Ashok the leg spinner. Then you've got Duffy, O'Rourke
Sears coming in. There's still quite young players. Nathan Smith
has been around, Rhys Murray, who I see is there
as well. So you know, it's a very different looking.
(04:59):
It's almost as if the two sides have swipped swipped around,
isn't it. Really they've swapped about and it's New Zealand
now have got the younger players.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
That said, you know, I I do like the look
of it. And and at the risk of HARKing back
over something that we've already talked through. It's rather lamentable
that we couldn't see Duffy playing in that that that
Test series just gone. Yeah, breask quick shapes it away.
All the things that he he shan't be named, was
(05:30):
not particularly wasn't wasn't giving us. And every time Duffy's played,
he's got wickets and and looked really really good. And
I I just hope they actually stay with him because
he gives us something, doesn't he. But I am looking
forward to this one day series and seeing how these
younger players or new players coming on. Couldn't disappointed that
(05:52):
we couldn't see this guy, Josh Clarkson, but I think
he's come back from injury, the CD who got a
little chance last year. But there's again, I think that
there's a bit of talent running around New Zealand and
that's that's that's the bit done. Looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
We've got Risban coming back in for the Pakistan side,
Babba Azam Fahim immamal Haaks, so they're going to be
a stronger side than the tweety side. Yeah, and the women, well,
the White fans struggled to make some progress. I didn't
expect them to beat the Australians. The Australians are a
very good side. But apart from that last game when
(06:31):
Maddy Green and Millie Kurd nearly got New Zealand up
twitty off the last ten balls, we didn't see them
put in the same sort of performances that we saw
against Sri lank a different opposition. But we really needed
to see a continuation, didn't we.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well, I mean New Zealand's I mean yes, they got
closer in the third match. You have mentioned that, and
that was through the batting, not through the fielding. The
fielding cost them the game obviously, but you know Australia
all round, they just remind you they're just all around athleticism,
(07:07):
the range of batsting skills, the bowling skills as well
and certainly fielding. You just simply have got to acknowledge
our superior side. And you know, for New Zealand to win,
they have to play out of their skin and Australia
have to play poorly for them to get a victory.
(07:29):
They as I say in game three, yet they encouraging
and a bit of optimism there, but you know, just
too much power with the bat. They when they play
their cricket shots. They are really extensions of orthodox cricket,
you know, and driving in the air and so on,
(07:50):
more power, more speed between the wickets, leg spinners that
actually get the ball to drift before it takes turn.
So just an all round we you know, we're going
to have to roll our sleeves up and if we
want to legitimately challenge that Australian side. So a glimpse
(08:11):
of what was possible in Game three, but a lot
of work to be done.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
If you were picking an Australian side and you had
a choice of New Zealanders, I posit to you, gentlemen,
that there would only be one player that from Musical
that would get in and that's merely Curve. And I
think I think if we're agreed on that, then what
does that say. It just says Australia are light and
(08:39):
day just just better. And that includes the previous team
that we would have thought would have would have taken
them close, but they got absolutely belted in the Ashes
series being England. So I think we yeah, you're right, Jerry.
The athleticism, the you know, they've got some they've got
some people who can who can bowl well, you know,
pretty brisk stuff spinners that is, you know, it's great
(09:04):
to watch them because they are very very good, the.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Very good name move before the ball is bowled, sometimes
slide across to access vacant areas in the field so
that you can pitch outside off and you get swept,
you know, and they are playing the game at a
different level.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I just think there's no doubt that said, it's been
great to actually have get them coming out out here
and having our ask being able to see them because
we don't. Otherwise we wouldn't really get to see them
very much. And they're the best in the world and
it's wonderful that we actually get them sins the level,
doesn't it where our our our crickets have got to
(09:46):
get to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That can only be good most definitely.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
On the front foot. And here he goes the bouncer.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
One of our regular listeners is bowling a bouncer for
me this week. Trent says, what on earth is going
on with the scoreboard at Wellington Stadium. It's bad enough
that we have to endure cricket in a characterlesst tupper
where can of a stadium instead of lounging on the
luxurious grasp banks at the basin. However, the powers that
(10:14):
be insist on filling up the scoreboard with ads, making
the actual cricket information so small that the Hubble Space
telescope would struggle to resolve it. Do we really need
an ad that takes up three quarters of the screen
every time someone scores? Do we really need a quarter
of the screen permanently taken up with the names of
the countries playing as if we had no idea who
(10:37):
had just mortgaged the house to buy tickets to see
next time? I'll bring my flat screen TV along and
make my own scoreboard. And a man with a failing
ice like myself cannot disagree with your trent. Thank you
very much for your coming. I'm sure you guys probably
understand as well.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Where with your trent totally.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
The only reason why they probably need the ads on
the screen is because they don't have the people in
the stadium, because it's not a place that many people
really want to go to in that late in the
your on the evenings, which are rather brisk and frankly
just not in attractive offering. Give me the base anytime, please.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yes, most definitely. Four and a half thousand could have
played at the base reserve as well. One of the
issues that's been well bubbling away in the background and
hasn't been made public from recent times is a dispute
between the cricket players both men and women, their Association
and New Zealand Cricket over players names, images, likenesses, rights,
(11:39):
et cetera, et cetera. Heath Mills, the Cricket Players Association,
said it's been made clear to them that they've received
a number of legal letters towards the end of last
year and also their affiliates, the World Crickets Association. New
Zealand Cricket Chief Executive Scott Weening says he can confirm
(12:00):
that discussions between the two parties on this matter are ongoing.
But it's incorrect to say New Zealand has taken legal action.
But once you get lawyers involved, there is legal action.
What are you like The issue, guys, is not so
much the rights. I mean, when you were playing, there's
probably no thought of worrying about players image and rights.
(12:21):
It was getting paid to play the game, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's a bit sad, isn't it to see
the two central pillars of the game in New Zealand
the administration on one hand, and the enz CPA they're
sort of the players union if you like, on the
other at Loggerheads. They've worked relatively closely since the time
(12:45):
before when they had the strike of course the two parties,
which was really quite nasty two thousand and two. That was,
But more concerning for me is that they've been unable
to find a solution. They've been unable to get to
a point where they can agree. So that means, as
you've said, we get other people to make those decisions
(13:07):
and their old lawyers and men in suits who have
got large pockets. So that's not good for our game.
I don't think you know. There's this You're right, this
nil names images and likeness digital images of players. There's
an Indian company that have got an app. It's called
I think World Cricket twenty. Look, my understanding with this,
(13:31):
WADS is that New Zealand Cricket have made a deal
with the sort of the Dream of leven Or is
that what you were calling it when you spoke to me,
The Indian fantasy Yeah, the fantasy sport platform, and they
were giving New Zealand Cricket. We're giving exclusive rights if
you like, to them and being able to use them,
(13:55):
and New Zealand were plaid in New Zealand Cricket. That's
the administrators were paid money for that, and they were
dividing that money up fifty percent to the council and
fifty percent to the players. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and it's quite substantial, as I understand.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Right, Okay, so that's fine. Where Heath Mills comes into it,
of course, working with their players union. He says that
you know players that they've been claudial so far, but
no longer. This is a different end z C, different administration,
and so he is saying, and it's quite I mean,
(14:32):
I can understand what he's saying. He's saying, Yes, if
New Zealand players are wearing logos on their clothes and
marks on their clothes that say they're from New Zealand Cricket, yeah,
that's yours New Zealand Cricket. But when they're not, when
they're not, then it's the players. I think that's where
(14:53):
the difference is. Is that would that be fair?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, well that's the point of discussion. I suppose the
lawyers have to sort that out. She'd never have had
to face jesuses to do. I mean, you would have
had a lot of contracts because you played around a
fair number of leagues during your career, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, we had contracts. But I'm not unused to disputes
and contracts in my in my in my other life,
so I'm sort of somewhat familiar with this sort of
thing here. What I'm seeing here is is a transaction
done with with an organization who's paid good money. Now,
the point that we're running into and why lawyers are involved,
(15:31):
is a question of definition. Was it was it expressly
dealt with that the images? Were these images with nz
SEE logos or otherways or is it all images? And
that's where that's where this is where the number of
it all is. Because if I'm if I'm of the
party that's entered into this arrangement with nz C, and
I've paid good money, which is called consideration, and the
(15:55):
players have accepted that money, it becomes rather rather difficult
to accept the money on one hand and then argue
on the other. So I can see where lawyers are
mulling over said documents and saying, well, what did we
mean and what was intended? So it's messy, and I
am not surprised because players rights and images and things
(16:18):
are valuable now and I can understand why, Okay Williamson
or whoever else Mitchell Satner would want to preserve that
because that is their ip, if you will. It's difficult
and messy, but the players and sorts of fat taking
good money, then it becomes I think it becomes rather
(16:41):
interesting and I think this is going to be drawn out.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, it's been happening in rugby as well, of course.
I mean Richie mccaugh had an issue I think while
he was playing, and you know those contract issues do
take a bit of time. But what it does do
is it puts a negative spotlight on the game, doesn't it.
It costs the game, It costs the players, and we
don't want that happening, you know it. You know they've
had twenty years, as Heath Mill says, of good understanding.
(17:06):
We want to keep that, don't we, and the good
faith between the two parties.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Did the players know what they were entering into when
they accept the debt?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, that's the question. Yeah, I guess that's the question.
We don't know that.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
My expectation is I suspect they really didn't and they
and they were they were going, oh yeah that's fine, yeah,
yeah yeah, the bank accounts here, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Will take the money.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Cricket is quite keen on put pocketing the cash. It's
always been my experience and so let's not look at
the detail. That's where I think we have have the problem.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, we'll have to watch that one with a great
deal of interest because they're due to go to mediation.
Whether that happens, I'm not too sure. We don't hear
too much out of New Zealand Cricket or the Players Association.
That's a matter of you know, a little league here
and a little leak there from one player to just
to talk to you. But they don't want to have
their name published and good on. That's fair enough enough. Yeah,
(18:02):
there's there's a couple of other issues and I think
it's something we need to look into. The World Cricketers Association,
of which he Mills is a director, has published a
six month review into the sports structure at the elite
level and says the current situation is putting the future
of the international game at risk. Amid the rise of
T twenty leagues. They want to make a radical change.
(18:25):
They didn't need a big report, Jerry, did they to
tell us that there needs to be a radical change
in terms of how the program has developed.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
No, mate, the game is clearly at a tipping point
where it's very hard to organize things. There are so many,
so many World Cups nowadays. You know, everybody wants to
make some money through the broadcasters, don't they. So there's
just more and more being fitted in all the time.
(18:53):
What these guys are trying to do, it seems to me,
is just reorganized things slightly into different areas so that
we've got certain periods of the year that are devoted
to different aspects, different formats of the game, and try
to get it a little more organization to the whole year,
which seems sensible. It's not a big idea, it's not
(19:15):
a new idea. So let's if they are able to
get you know, things moving in that direction. Yeah, let's
do that. So I mean, is it saying more than that, Brian?
Not a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
At the moment. They want to reduce the sort of
financial rewards and revenues for the BCCI, and I.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Don't see that happening, No, probably not. I did see
the report. It was distributed actually by the Plans Association
that came through on the email. It's it's a lazy
forty four odd pages which I started about page one
and the I started glazing over and I thought themselves,
I don't need another one of these reports. I think
(19:58):
the intent is good, because if we do nothing and
the issues are not raised, then I think it becomes
a little bit shambolic, as as yet another T twenty
competition pops in and eats up some time. So I
think it's good to address the issue. But will it
become just another report that just ends up gathering dust
(20:21):
and the BCI will do what the BCI wishes.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, well, well it's another one. We'll have to follow
with a lot of interest to see where that heads. Well,
because you know, the program is getting plogged and something
needs to be done, quite clearly, a couple of issues.
Seventy years since we were out for twenty six, guys,
none of us will remember it. I remember it vaguely
as a little wee boy and my dad being a
(20:47):
little bit disturbed by the fact that we're all out
for twenty six. But it's something we haven't got rid
of it. We've come close a couple of times, Jerry,
an't we we have we have.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
There's always a little spark, isn't there when some side
is eight for twenty four or something like that, we
might be replaced and not put it the top of
that list that we don't want to be part of.
It was a funny old game, though, wasn't it. New
Zealand battered. I think got two hundred and and then
the the English got to forty six, so they weren't
(21:20):
that far ahead, but forty six was enough and we
were bowld out for twenty six. I remember Bert Sutcliffe
saying he I think he was the only one who
got double figures, not sure, but he said he was.
He was opening. He got out and went and had
a shower and changed. By the time he came in
and dried himself, everybody was out and they were all
(21:42):
sitting in the changing room. So yeah, Bob, Bob epple Yard,
poor joker. He got what four for four for about
seven and was on on a hat trick a couple
of times I think, and wasn't able to h to
complete it. But anyway, yeah, that was that was not
(22:02):
a day. We want to recall from Auckland.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, perhaps we can have one further recollection. A number
of years ago the late Frank Tyson came to New
Zealand and spoke at Eden Park in Auckland, and he
had recollections of that game and one incident within it.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
From his viewpoint, twenty four fifty five would perhaps a
better time for me, in so far as it was
the occasion when I was perhaps outstanding not for my
bowling but my batting, because I was taken off at
eden Park after having taken two for nine, being deemed
(22:43):
too expensive. But to my undying credit, I will say
that when I came into batlen happened who was batting?
I think in that particular innings the second innings of
(23:04):
the England side, and I should point out that New
Zealand were very close to England and their first innings total,
and Len, who scored a half century, came up to
me and said stick around and we'll beat them by
then ings and we've got to lead of fifty seven.
And that's the only time in my life with you.
(23:27):
Deference to Jim Laker, I made a bloody Yorkshire Optimist.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Brian Waddell, Jeremy Cooney, on the front foot.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Finally, guys Michael Goff and Joel Wilson have been dispatched
from the ICC umpiring panel. Wilson I can understand. I've
never rated his umpiring abilities, I've got to say, but
Michael Goff I thought he was one of the bitter umpires.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Joel Wilson causes lots of reviews and and from lots
of sides. It may actually save time, who knows. Michael
Goff I think is very highly regarded as a decision maker.
And I mean he played cricket under nineteen captain for England.
(24:26):
He played for Durham and averaged fifty. But he he
didn't really enjoy playing the game, he said, but clearly
like watching it. So he became quite a young umpire
in his twenties. First test he umpired was twenty sixteen,
Elite Panel twenty nineteen because I remember you and I
(24:47):
was he was at the World Cup that ODI World
Cup in the UK. But now he's been axed. It's
quite surprising, isn't it that the ICC have these routine
performance assessments. Jay Shah said. Being an elite official brings
with it scrutiny and pressure. It's a bit of a
(25:10):
surprise to me. The Indian side regarded Goth very highly.
Because this was Ravi Shastury talking. He said, they do
not even review decisions made by Goth for not out
or out because they just they follow his decision making
so closely.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It seems a little bit arbitrary. I understand that about Gough,
but the other guy, I wouldn't know. Can I just
add some one other one in which came up was
the passing of Peter Lever. Yeah, it's weak and of
course we remember Peter Lever mostly because he was a
pretty useful left quick but more of the point that
he hit our being, our good friend Charlie Chatfield on
(25:55):
the Nogan and it wasn't It wasn't a great moment
and I shall never forget that. So I just one
want to thank the the physio from England for saving
Chat's life and also acknowledge a good, good cricket career,
(26:15):
from what I understand, was a decent bloke Peter Lever.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, Peter Lever was the right armor moose. You're thinking
of John Lever. You're thinking of John Lever the right Yes,
that's right, and you're right about that and it certainly
brings up the chats incident was an awful, awful moment
and and thank haavens for Bernard Thomas, that little that
little physio who came and fixed chats up out on
(26:40):
the field and he was okay. Peter Lever was on
his knees halfway down the pitch. He was absolutely bereft
and distraught. Went to see him later that day.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I still shiver when I remember that incident because
well it was literally a half stopping moment in terms
of cricket. And you know Jerry you or and Moost
you know, chats really well he was, he was a
lucky man to come away from that. Ever he was.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
He was followed the tongue and you know, no helmets
in those days, wads. The ball came off luckily kind
of the gloves took most of the blow off the
bat as he kind of had it up in front
of his face, so it took a lot of the
blow actually, and then into his mouth and he swallowed,
as I say, his tongue and seeing all the English
players just sitting, you know, and standing around not knowing
(27:32):
what to do right round him, zambucks came on, didn't
know what to do, went off and then luckily on
rased Bernard Thomas to save him. So he has spent
a night in the hospital. Peter Eva went to visit him,
so it was all okay and then thankfully.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, but it's interesting it just left in adlible mark.
You know, I was a young kid in those days
and it's still in my memory. I can see it
now and yeah, so it's funny the passing of Peter
Lever and and that and those memories come back. But oh,
(28:13):
Peter live had a good life at eighty four and
we still live Charlie with us, so that can only
be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, that's good. I had a chat with Peter Lever
about it or sometime ago, and I think it may
well have been on the front foot that he spoke
to us, you know, and he was he was saddened
by the issue, you know that he said, it's just
one of those things that happened, and that you know,
that was it. But it wasn't if he held any animosity.
(28:41):
But the public of New Zealand certainly didn't like him
for a period of time, did they because of that situation.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It wasn't the first bounce of bold was it?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
John Snow was around at that period too, wasn't he? Yes, yeah, absolutely,
and everybody else. Anyway, it came out happily at the
end and it said to farewell Peter lever Becau. He
did make a great contribution to the game. Thanks guys.
Once again, this time next week we'll be celebrating the
Plunket Shield winners, our Walington Firebirds. Sorry, guys, I know
(29:19):
this is a little bit parochial. They dipped out of contention.
They're still there, but they've got to rely on Otago
beating Northern Districts if they're to get there, and they've
got to beat Canterbury. So good finale. I've got to
say that the last couple of rounds of this Plunket
Shield have been very interesting and entertaining and they've produced
some good games. We mentioned it last week. Northern Districts
(29:42):
got up and beat Wellington by twenty eyed at the
Basin Reserve and Canterbury massacred Central in the game that
they played. So hopefully we're celebrating. Not too sure what
it's going to turn out, but thanks for your time.
We've got the match between New Zealand and Pakistan. There's
three odieides that we'll be talking about next week, and
(30:05):
there's some of the other issues facing credators. Jerry, go
and watch some cricket.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Thank you mate, I will do cheers most lovely to
hear what you've had to say.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And and I'm going to do a really crazy, crazy
thing tomorrow. I'm going down to the basin and watch
watch a little bit of cricket plunket shield.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So there you go, I'll see you.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We'll have a drink. Good Okay, Mats, guys, cheers.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Welcome a
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Summer For more from News Talks at b Listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on
iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, take another pat now, well it's a trick. It
is out. The test is over.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Couldn't dismay?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh wow from a beaut it is out and hearing guys,
this delivery has in you.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Used to Bold.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello on the proNT Court. Best with you again. Letty
Happening in the World of Crickets a series when over
packet found for the Black Cat the White Ferns struggled
to make progress against the world's best our players at
odds with the inded c over contract rights issues. How
costly could it be? Seventy years this week since we
were dismissed for twenty six and I'm wanted record and
(01:10):
two umpires dispatched from the ICC umpire and penel one
probably didn't deserve it, Hi did Jeremy Coney And to
Peter Holland Peter Well nonto us was moose and he's
just returned from a holiday in Jordland. There were sighting
of moose down there.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yes, that was loved. I do love it down there,
but up in the Kempany coast quite easily.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Every seen him down there, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They're everywhere, aren't they. Moose Is everywhere mice moosey.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, hey, let's get on with it. Series win over Pakistan.
Were Pakistan good enough? Jerry?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I know they weren't. They were inexperienced side. They played
well in Auckland, didn't they? Pakistan the bet and I
felt the conditions and the shorter pitched bowling and bounce
from the taller bowlers O Rot Duffy's tears, they found
defending it pretty awkward and they therefore had to play aggressively.
(02:20):
And that means if you can't defend a ball, you're
unable to manipulate the ball around in between the big shots.
So you still need to do that. In twenty twenty crickets,
two fours and over is eight, but you need to
get the twos and the ones in between the big shots.
So yeah, I felt they couldn't do that, and so
(02:43):
they were defeated.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Really, most few were against the inclusion of guys like
Seifert and Finale and stuff, and I agree with you
on the point that you know, we should be looking
at players who are committing themselves to the New Zealand game.
But Seifert was probably the star of the show, wasn't he.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We're true, and Phil Allen's contributions were pretty good as well.
Given every chance, I don't think I I'm walking walking
away from my earlier comments, bearing in mind that the
team that Pakistan board, I still saw it as a
good opportunity. That said, I guess that I guess the
(03:22):
selectors are wanting to keep their options open, which is
a fair point with a World Cup, another World Cup
coming up, I think next year. So I'm I think, okay, fine,
we know they're there. They've shown some talent. Alan looked
a bit better. Sidered very good. I agree Anisian Nisian
was got a five wicket in the last one. It's hard.
(03:46):
It's hard to argue that said, I noticed it in
the one day squad. They brought in a few new players,
and now that that I do applaud and I'm pleased
about that. So so I guess they are broadening the
pool of of of of of players, and so for
that I have to dp my hat to to the
selectors and the coaches and the coaching team.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Jerry, We've missedter Duffy, haven't we. I mean he is
now becoming a first choice Pickersney for our one day
sides has to play.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I think Brian will be interesting, won't it. And I
don't know whether they can bully the Pakistan side that
they've selected, which is a much stronger Pakistan eleven I
think in the ode I's so that's going to be interesting.
But Duffy, yes, I agree with Moose. It's interesting, isn't it.
(04:38):
We're going to have some younger players, Kelly Mohammed a bass,
Addie Ashok the leg spinner. Then you've got Duffy, O'Rourke
Sears coming in. There's still quite young players. Nathan Smith
has been around, Rhys Murray, who I see is there
as well. So you know, it's a very different looking.
(04:59):
It's almost as if the two sides have swipped swipped around,
isn't it. Really they've swapped about and it's New Zealand
now have got the younger players.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
That said, you know, I I do like the look
of it. And and at the risk of HARKing back
over something that we've already talked through. It's rather lamentable
that we couldn't see Duffy playing in that that that
Test series just gone. Yeah, breask quick shapes it away.
All the things that he he shan't be named, was
(05:30):
not particularly wasn't wasn't giving us. And every time Duffy's played,
he's got wickets and and looked really really good. And
I I just hope they actually stay with him because
he gives us something, doesn't he. But I am looking
forward to this one day series and seeing how these
younger players or new players coming on. Couldn't disappointed that
(05:52):
we couldn't see this guy, Josh Clarkson, but I think
he's come back from injury, the CD who got a
little chance last year. But there's again, I think that
there's a bit of talent running around New Zealand and
that's that's that's the bit done. Looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
We've got Risban coming back in for the Pakistan side,
Babba Azam Fahim immamal Haaks, so they're going to be
a stronger side than the tweety side. Yeah, and the women, well,
the White fans struggled to make some progress. I didn't
expect them to beat the Australians. The Australians are a
very good side. But apart from that last game when
(06:31):
Maddy Green and Millie Kurd nearly got New Zealand up
twitty off the last ten balls, we didn't see them
put in the same sort of performances that we saw
against Sri lank a different opposition. But we really needed
to see a continuation, didn't we.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well, I mean New Zealand's I mean yes, they got
closer in the third match. You have mentioned that, and
that was through the batting, not through the fielding. The
fielding cost them the game obviously, but you know Australia
all round, they just remind you they're just all around athleticism,
(07:07):
the range of batsting skills, the bowling skills as well
and certainly fielding. You just simply have got to acknowledge
our superior side. And you know, for New Zealand to win,
they have to play out of their skin and Australia
have to play poorly for them to get a victory.
(07:29):
They as I say in game three, yet they encouraging
and a bit of optimism there, but you know, just
too much power with the bat. They when they play
their cricket shots. They are really extensions of orthodox cricket,
you know, and driving in the air and so on,
(07:50):
more power, more speed between the wickets, leg spinners that
actually get the ball to drift before it takes turn.
So just an all round we you know, we're going
to have to roll our sleeves up and if we
want to legitimately challenge that Australian side. So a glimpse
(08:11):
of what was possible in Game three, but a lot
of work to be done.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
If you were picking an Australian side and you had
a choice of New Zealanders, I posit to you, gentlemen,
that there would only be one player that from Musical
that would get in and that's merely Curve. And I
think I think if we're agreed on that, then what
does that say. It just says Australia are light and
(08:39):
day just just better. And that includes the previous team
that we would have thought would have would have taken
them close, but they got absolutely belted in the Ashes
series being England. So I think we yeah, you're right, Jerry.
The athleticism, the you know, they've got some they've got
some people who can who can bowl well, you know,
pretty brisk stuff spinners that is, you know, it's great
(09:04):
to watch them because they are very very good, the.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Very good name move before the ball is bowled, sometimes
slide across to access vacant areas in the field so
that you can pitch outside off and you get swept,
you know, and they are playing the game at a
different level.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I just think there's no doubt that said, it's been
great to actually have get them coming out out here
and having our ask being able to see them because
we don't. Otherwise we wouldn't really get to see them
very much. And they're the best in the world and
it's wonderful that we actually get them sins the level,
doesn't it where our our our crickets have got to
(09:46):
get to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That can only be good most definitely.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
On the front foot. And here he goes the bouncer.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
One of our regular listeners is bowling a bouncer for
me this week. Trent says, what on earth is going
on with the scoreboard at Wellington Stadium. It's bad enough
that we have to endure cricket in a characterlesst tupper
where can of a stadium instead of lounging on the
luxurious grasp banks at the basin. However, the powers that
(10:14):
be insist on filling up the scoreboard with ads, making
the actual cricket information so small that the Hubble Space
telescope would struggle to resolve it. Do we really need
an ad that takes up three quarters of the screen
every time someone scores? Do we really need a quarter
of the screen permanently taken up with the names of
the countries playing as if we had no idea who
(10:37):
had just mortgaged the house to buy tickets to see
next time? I'll bring my flat screen TV along and
make my own scoreboard. And a man with a failing
ice like myself cannot disagree with your trent. Thank you
very much for your coming. I'm sure you guys probably
understand as well.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Where with your trent totally.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
The only reason why they probably need the ads on
the screen is because they don't have the people in
the stadium, because it's not a place that many people
really want to go to in that late in the
your on the evenings, which are rather brisk and frankly
just not in attractive offering. Give me the base anytime, please.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yes, most definitely. Four and a half thousand could have
played at the base reserve as well. One of the
issues that's been well bubbling away in the background and
hasn't been made public from recent times is a dispute
between the cricket players both men and women, their Association
and New Zealand Cricket over players names, images, likenesses, rights,
(11:39):
et cetera, et cetera. Heath Mills, the Cricket Players Association,
said it's been made clear to them that they've received
a number of legal letters towards the end of last
year and also their affiliates, the World Crickets Association. New
Zealand Cricket Chief Executive Scott Weening says he can confirm
(12:00):
that discussions between the two parties on this matter are ongoing.
But it's incorrect to say New Zealand has taken legal action.
But once you get lawyers involved, there is legal action.
What are you like The issue, guys, is not so
much the rights. I mean, when you were playing, there's
probably no thought of worrying about players image and rights.
(12:21):
It was getting paid to play the game, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's a bit sad, isn't it to see
the two central pillars of the game in New Zealand
the administration on one hand, and the enz CPA they're
sort of the players union if you like, on the
other at Loggerheads. They've worked relatively closely since the time
(12:45):
before when they had the strike of course the two parties,
which was really quite nasty two thousand and two. That was,
But more concerning for me is that they've been unable
to find a solution. They've been unable to get to
a point where they can agree. So that means, as
you've said, we get other people to make those decisions
(13:07):
and their old lawyers and men in suits who have
got large pockets. So that's not good for our game.
I don't think you know. There's this You're right, this
nil names images and likeness digital images of players. There's
an Indian company that have got an app. It's called
I think World Cricket twenty. Look, my understanding with this,
(13:31):
WADS is that New Zealand Cricket have made a deal
with the sort of the Dream of leven Or is
that what you were calling it when you spoke to me,
The Indian fantasy Yeah, the fantasy sport platform, and they
were giving New Zealand Cricket. We're giving exclusive rights if
you like, to them and being able to use them,
(13:55):
and New Zealand were plaid in New Zealand Cricket. That's
the administrators were paid money for that, and they were
dividing that money up fifty percent to the council and
fifty percent to the players. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and it's quite substantial, as I understand.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Right, Okay, so that's fine. Where Heath Mills comes into it,
of course, working with their players union. He says that
you know players that they've been claudial so far, but
no longer. This is a different end z C, different administration,
and so he is saying, and it's quite I mean,
(14:32):
I can understand what he's saying. He's saying, Yes, if
New Zealand players are wearing logos on their clothes and
marks on their clothes that say they're from New Zealand Cricket, yeah,
that's yours New Zealand Cricket. But when they're not, when
they're not, then it's the players. I think that's where
(14:53):
the difference is. Is that would that be fair?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, well that's the point of discussion. I suppose the
lawyers have to sort that out. She'd never have had
to face jesuses to do. I mean, you would have
had a lot of contracts because you played around a
fair number of leagues during your career, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, we had contracts. But I'm not unused to disputes
and contracts in my in my in my other life,
so I'm sort of somewhat familiar with this sort of
thing here. What I'm seeing here is is a transaction
done with with an organization who's paid good money. Now,
the point that we're running into and why lawyers are involved,
(15:31):
is a question of definition. Was it was it expressly
dealt with that the images? Were these images with nz
SEE logos or otherways or is it all images? And
that's where that's where this is where the number of
it all is. Because if I'm if I'm of the
party that's entered into this arrangement with nz C, and
I've paid good money, which is called consideration, and the
(15:55):
players have accepted that money, it becomes rather rather difficult
to accept the money on one hand and then argue
on the other. So I can see where lawyers are
mulling over said documents and saying, well, what did we
mean and what was intended? So it's messy, and I
am not surprised because players rights and images and things
(16:18):
are valuable now and I can understand why, Okay Williamson
or whoever else Mitchell Satner would want to preserve that
because that is their ip, if you will. It's difficult
and messy, but the players and sorts of fat taking
good money, then it becomes I think it becomes rather
(16:41):
interesting and I think this is going to be drawn out.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, it's been happening in rugby as well, of course.
I mean Richie mccaugh had an issue I think while
he was playing, and you know those contract issues do
take a bit of time. But what it does do
is it puts a negative spotlight on the game, doesn't it.
It costs the game, It costs the players, and we
don't want that happening, you know it. You know they've
had twenty years, as Heath Mill says, of good understanding.
(17:06):
We want to keep that, don't we, and the good
faith between the two parties.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Did the players know what they were entering into when
they accept the debt?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, that's the question. Yeah, I guess that's the question.
We don't know that.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
My expectation is I suspect they really didn't and they
and they were they were going, oh yeah that's fine, yeah,
yeah yeah, the bank accounts here, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Will take the money.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Cricket is quite keen on put pocketing the cash. It's
always been my experience and so let's not look at
the detail. That's where I think we have have the problem.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, we'll have to watch that one with a great
deal of interest because they're due to go to mediation.
Whether that happens, I'm not too sure. We don't hear
too much out of New Zealand Cricket or the Players Association.
That's a matter of you know, a little league here
and a little leak there from one player to just
to talk to you. But they don't want to have
their name published and good on. That's fair enough enough. Yeah,
(18:02):
there's there's a couple of other issues and I think
it's something we need to look into. The World Cricketers Association,
of which he Mills is a director, has published a
six month review into the sports structure at the elite
level and says the current situation is putting the future
of the international game at risk. Amid the rise of
T twenty leagues. They want to make a radical change.
(18:25):
They didn't need a big report, Jerry, did they to
tell us that there needs to be a radical change
in terms of how the program has developed.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
No, mate, the game is clearly at a tipping point
where it's very hard to organize things. There are so many,
so many World Cups nowadays. You know, everybody wants to
make some money through the broadcasters, don't they. So there's
just more and more being fitted in all the time.
(18:53):
What these guys are trying to do, it seems to me,
is just reorganized things slightly into different areas so that
we've got certain periods of the year that are devoted
to different aspects, different formats of the game, and try
to get it a little more organization to the whole year,
which seems sensible. It's not a big idea, it's not
(19:15):
a new idea. So let's if they are able to
get you know, things moving in that direction. Yeah, let's
do that. So I mean, is it saying more than that, Brian?
Not a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
At the moment. They want to reduce the sort of
financial rewards and revenues for the BCCI, and I.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Don't see that happening, No, probably not. I did see
the report. It was distributed actually by the Plans Association
that came through on the email. It's it's a lazy
forty four odd pages which I started about page one
and the I started glazing over and I thought themselves,
I don't need another one of these reports. I think
(19:58):
the intent is good, because if we do nothing and
the issues are not raised, then I think it becomes
a little bit shambolic, as as yet another T twenty
competition pops in and eats up some time. So I
think it's good to address the issue. But will it
become just another report that just ends up gathering dust
(20:21):
and the BCI will do what the BCI wishes.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, well, well it's another one. We'll have to follow
with a lot of interest to see where that heads. Well,
because you know, the program is getting plogged and something
needs to be done, quite clearly, a couple of issues.
Seventy years since we were out for twenty six, guys,
none of us will remember it. I remember it vaguely
as a little wee boy and my dad being a
(20:47):
little bit disturbed by the fact that we're all out
for twenty six. But it's something we haven't got rid
of it. We've come close a couple of times, Jerry,
an't we we have we have.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
There's always a little spark, isn't there when some side
is eight for twenty four or something like that, we
might be replaced and not put it the top of
that list that we don't want to be part of.
It was a funny old game, though, wasn't it. New
Zealand battered. I think got two hundred and and then
the the English got to forty six, so they weren't
(21:20):
that far ahead, but forty six was enough and we
were bowld out for twenty six. I remember Bert Sutcliffe
saying he I think he was the only one who
got double figures, not sure, but he said he was.
He was opening. He got out and went and had
a shower and changed. By the time he came in
and dried himself, everybody was out and they were all
(21:42):
sitting in the changing room. So yeah, Bob, Bob epple Yard,
poor joker. He got what four for four for about
seven and was on on a hat trick a couple
of times I think, and wasn't able to h to
complete it. But anyway, yeah, that was that was not
(22:02):
a day. We want to recall from Auckland.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, perhaps we can have one further recollection. A number
of years ago the late Frank Tyson came to New
Zealand and spoke at Eden Park in Auckland, and he
had recollections of that game and one incident within it.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
From his viewpoint, twenty four fifty five would perhaps a
better time for me, in so far as it was
the occasion when I was perhaps outstanding not for my
bowling but my batting, because I was taken off at
eden Park after having taken two for nine, being deemed
(22:43):
too expensive. But to my undying credit, I will say
that when I came into batlen happened who was batting?
I think in that particular innings the second innings of
(23:04):
the England side, and I should point out that New
Zealand were very close to England and their first innings total,
and Len, who scored a half century, came up to
me and said stick around and we'll beat them by
then ings and we've got to lead of fifty seven.
And that's the only time in my life with you.
(23:27):
Deference to Jim Laker, I made a bloody Yorkshire Optimist.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Brian Waddell, Jeremy Cooney, on the front foot.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Finally, guys Michael Goff and Joel Wilson have been dispatched
from the ICC umpiring panel. Wilson I can understand. I've
never rated his umpiring abilities, I've got to say, but
Michael Goff I thought he was one of the bitter umpires.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Joel Wilson causes lots of reviews and and from lots
of sides. It may actually save time, who knows. Michael
Goff I think is very highly regarded as a decision maker.
And I mean he played cricket under nineteen captain for England.
(24:26):
He played for Durham and averaged fifty. But he he
didn't really enjoy playing the game, he said, but clearly
like watching it. So he became quite a young umpire
in his twenties. First test he umpired was twenty sixteen,
Elite Panel twenty nineteen because I remember you and I
(24:47):
was he was at the World Cup that ODI World
Cup in the UK. But now he's been axed. It's
quite surprising, isn't it that the ICC have these routine
performance assessments. Jay Shah said. Being an elite official brings
with it scrutiny and pressure. It's a bit of a
(25:10):
surprise to me. The Indian side regarded Goth very highly.
Because this was Ravi Shastury talking. He said, they do
not even review decisions made by Goth for not out
or out because they just they follow his decision making
so closely.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It seems a little bit arbitrary. I understand that about Gough,
but the other guy, I wouldn't know. Can I just
add some one other one in which came up was
the passing of Peter Lever. Yeah, it's weak and of
course we remember Peter Lever mostly because he was a
pretty useful left quick but more of the point that
he hit our being, our good friend Charlie Chatfield on
(25:55):
the Nogan and it wasn't It wasn't a great moment
and I shall never forget that. So I just one
want to thank the the physio from England for saving
Chat's life and also acknowledge a good, good cricket career,
(26:15):
from what I understand, was a decent bloke Peter Lever.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, Peter Lever was the right armor moose. You're thinking
of John Lever. You're thinking of John Lever the right Yes,
that's right, and you're right about that and it certainly
brings up the chats incident was an awful, awful moment
and and thank haavens for Bernard Thomas, that little that
little physio who came and fixed chats up out on
(26:40):
the field and he was okay. Peter Lever was on
his knees halfway down the pitch. He was absolutely bereft
and distraught. Went to see him later that day.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I still shiver when I remember that incident because
well it was literally a half stopping moment in terms
of cricket. And you know Jerry you or and Moost
you know, chats really well he was, he was a
lucky man to come away from that. Ever he was.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
He was followed the tongue and you know, no helmets
in those days, wads. The ball came off luckily kind
of the gloves took most of the blow off the
bat as he kind of had it up in front
of his face, so it took a lot of the
blow actually, and then into his mouth and he swallowed,
as I say, his tongue and seeing all the English
players just sitting, you know, and standing around not knowing
(27:32):
what to do right round him, zambucks came on, didn't
know what to do, went off and then luckily on
rased Bernard Thomas to save him. So he has spent
a night in the hospital. Peter Eva went to visit him,
so it was all okay and then thankfully.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, but it's interesting it just left in adlible mark.
You know, I was a young kid in those days
and it's still in my memory. I can see it
now and yeah, so it's funny the passing of Peter
Lever and and that and those memories come back. But oh,
(28:13):
Peter live had a good life at eighty four and
we still live Charlie with us, so that can only
be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, that's good. I had a chat with Peter Lever
about it or sometime ago, and I think it may
well have been on the front foot that he spoke
to us, you know, and he was he was saddened
by the issue, you know that he said, it's just
one of those things that happened, and that you know,
that was it. But it wasn't if he held any animosity.
(28:41):
But the public of New Zealand certainly didn't like him
for a period of time, did they because of that situation.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It wasn't the first bounce of bold was it?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
John Snow was around at that period too, wasn't he? Yes, yeah, absolutely,
and everybody else. Anyway, it came out happily at the
end and it said to farewell Peter lever Becau. He
did make a great contribution to the game. Thanks guys.
Once again, this time next week we'll be celebrating the
Plunket Shield winners, our Walington Firebirds. Sorry, guys, I know
(29:19):
this is a little bit parochial. They dipped out of contention.
They're still there, but they've got to rely on Otago
beating Northern Districts if they're to get there, and they've
got to beat Canterbury. So good finale. I've got to
say that the last couple of rounds of this Plunket
Shield have been very interesting and entertaining and they've produced
some good games. We mentioned it last week. Northern Districts
(29:42):
got up and beat Wellington by twenty eyed at the
Basin Reserve and Canterbury massacred Central in the game that
they played. So hopefully we're celebrating. Not too sure what
it's going to turn out, but thanks for your time.
We've got the match between New Zealand and Pakistan. There's
three odieides that we'll be talking about next week, and
(30:05):
there's some of the other issues facing credators. Jerry, go
and watch some cricket.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Thank you mate, I will do cheers most lovely to
hear what you've had to say.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And and I'm going to do a really crazy, crazy
thing tomorrow. I'm going down to the basin and watch
watch a little bit of cricket plunket shield.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So there you go, I'll see you.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We'll have a drink. Good Okay, Mats, guys, cheers.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Welcome a
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Summer For more from News Talks at b Listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com