December 14, 2025 • 41 mins
Blackcap Neil Wagner joins On the Front Foot this week to review the Basin Reserve test
And, former Blackcap Richard Reid offers an insight from and administrators position on the current impasse in the administration.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B.
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iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Y take another Patrick, It is out, the test is over.
Couldn't as smooth beauty it is out.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Here he goes.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This delivery has in many uses to bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
On the front foot where Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney,
powered by News Talks dead B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, nice to have you on the front foot for
the raisine color shots, your color and the decorating experts.
I stepped forward at Hagley, two steps back at the
base in the West Indies, now fighting to square the
World Test Championship Series. Do we care that Joffra Archer
took us pillow to the cricket? Is that being over
prepared perhaps you should have stowed it in his often
(01:09):
And as New Zealand Cricket administration become a secret society
fiddling with our game, so they owe us, the stakeholders,
to be upfront and organized in their decision making. We'll
discuss those issues on this week's edition. Jeremy Coney is
with me a special guest, a man who's got a
bit of expertise in dealing with the top level sporting
(01:31):
establishments in cricket and in football. Richard Reid Redo, nice
to have you. We'll talk about cricket's major issue at
the moment. But I'm disappointed you weren't able to get
to the cricket on Saturday. Did you have your ticket
to return and get money back?
Speaker 5 (01:52):
No? I didn't. I don't have a ticket. No I
didn't get there. I had a few issues that I
had to deal with, but I was observing what was
going on. Three and four day game. Well, games that
seem to finish a day or a day and a
half early, doesn't matter. Will five or four day games
seem to be rather prevalent at the moment.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, Jerry, you would have enjoyed having the weekend at
home and not having to start work on a Wednesday
again this week. I think you start Thursday this coming week,
don't you.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Well, I was there, was I had to see it,
and yeah, I did appreciate the couple of days back here,
which is great, and picked on not such a nice
day today, but a cracker yesterday. So yeah, a comprehensive
nine wicket win.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, that's what it'll look like in the in the history,
won't that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean that's that's what the stats books say.
But I'm not sure that it was a convincing performance
by the New Zealand side when you look at the
way the team has developed. I guess the one real
positive that's come out of this series is Jacob Duffy
(03:09):
read o, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah, he's he's done well. The batting has been a
bit brutal, too many people getting starts and you know,
not not not getting known. They should have. They should
have got well over four hundred I thought in the
first in the first dig. But yeah, Duffy's done well.
He hasn't played for a while and he's come back. Yeah,
he's good. And you know, on our wickets, the guys
(03:35):
that came in Ray et cetera. You know that competent bowlers.
I'm not too sure I'd want to see them up
against on on on lossy wicket, but we're not playing
a lossy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, Jerry. That The interesting thing, of course, is that
they've replaced a pace bowler with a left arm spinner.
Ages Patel is back into the New Zealand side. Surely
he's not coming in just to say farewell. At his
retirement speech like they did to New York wagner Jerry.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Well, I don't know what they're doing. I didn't know that,
but thank you for telling me. I really I'm up
with the news. Yeah. Look, well he's normally our Asian specialist,
doesn't he He plays in Bangladesh, and he plays in
Sri Lanka, and he plays in India basically Pakistan. He
(04:28):
doesn't normally play here. I don't has he played one
Test match in New Zealand maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
One, yeah, about five years ago.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I think one of the most amazing statistics is I
don't know how many wickets he's got, but it'd be
sixty or seventy eighty five and he hasn't got one
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, and that was about four years ago. At the
basis of the funny part about that Test he played against,
it was India. I think we might have been Sri Lanka.
He bowled three overs in the first innings and three
overs in the second inning, so he was used very,
very sparingly, and they were saving him for bay Oval, Jerry.
So you'll be able to watch him twelve around up there.
(05:11):
The bowling attack for New Zealand interesting what Rito said about,
you know, fronting up against some really good size and
good batting. I just wonder whether Folks is a new
ball bowler or whether he should be a first change
or a second change. He's a seamer, is he an
all round her in making? Do you think?
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Well, you're asking me first, I would say he's he's slightly.
I mean, he's different than the other three seamers we
had in Wellington. Isn't he Ray who had had seventy
odd first class matches, so he's had plenty of He's
been there eleven years, Tickner who had been there for
(05:53):
a long time as well. And Duffy we know has
been there a long time. So he was the kind
of the odd man out the young man if you like.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
He relies on swing he has.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
He operates between about a high one twenties to low
one thirties, no more.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He needs the new ball.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
Therefore, what does he do later on and the Test
matched in the innings? There's a question mark about can
he bowl as many overs as say Duffy does? You'd
think so, but he hasn't so far as far as
the all rounder is concerned. Yeah, he can hold about
(06:34):
a bit but he bats about number nine at the moment,
and if he wants to have a future, I think
he's probably going to have to work pretty hard at
that and develop his bowl. He that develops an outswinger
as well as an in swinger, because he often comes
around quite wide on the crease around the wicket to
left handed batsman, and he's got to get it exactly right,
(06:56):
and he uses his swing to try and bring the
slips into play, but he's got to bring one back
as well. Otherwise they're just leaving it all the time.
So he's got a few little issues. But he's in
its early days. Wad how many has he had? Three tests?
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
So early keen.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
Young man, and probably right now the red ball game
is for you know, is showing him a few things
that the white ball doesn't. You know, he gets guys
playing big shots at him.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I see him as a sort of vying with Nathan Smith,
similar kind of role.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Exactly, and he's got to improve both disciplines, both as
batting and his bowling. I'd say Smith is ahead in both.
I think Smith when he plays has been batting at eight.
But you know, I could certainly see him Betty higher
than that, and he's got a bit more He's got
a bit more zip to him from a bowling point
of view. But you know, he did okay, but both
(07:57):
disciplines would need to improve. Certainly. Jerry was on the
mark of the couple. I haven't seen enough of him
with the bat, but he's not I don't think he's
in Smith's league yet.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
No, And the worrying thing from the Smith's point of
view is that you know he's injury prone, and I
just wonder whether his career is going to be blighted
by injuries. Are we going to get consistency from him?
That's worry, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Wadd's yeah, I don't know what you can do about that.
It reminds me of a very different shaped gentleman called
Aoram who they tried to alter from his what you
might call his natural speed that he bowled at and
they tried to upgrade that to try and get more
out of him, and he then started having injuries.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Whether Smith is pushing.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
His body too much, I don't know, but he's a
more of a skiddy type bowler, doesn't seem to and
appear to have the movement that's quite required yet at
international level to be dangerous if you can play the
line of the ball, and Rido's mentioned Australia. Basically, if
(09:08):
you bowl in Australia you can't move the ball or
hit the pitch really hard, you're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You play through the line and you get you get hit.
I'm afraid interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Kyle Jamison on press release. The reason why you haven't
heard the team before now, Jerry, is that it came
out while you and I were asleep and I just
happened to wake up. But part of the press release said.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Can't sleep in the middle of the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, we still do. I've got to get an hour
just to get me through to the evening. Kyle Jamison
is I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I'm not going to allow you to say that. Read Okay, so.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
On commentary the other day, Jerry, Yeah no.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That was that was when I sleep.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, Anyway, what New Zealand Cricket were telling us about.
Kyle Jamison's progressing well through his Red Bull return to
play plan. He'll continue to work closely with Black Caps
support staff on his return to the Test arena. Jamison
is working through a conditioning block after a full start
(10:16):
to the summer. What the hell does that mean? A
conditioning block? Did you ever do a conditioning block?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Reno?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Oh you know, I'm.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Sorry you probably yeah all the time. Yeah, yeah. I
sometimes think that Jerry's commanded the English language is better
than yours and mine. Wards, But sometimes some of these
statements that come out from semi corporatized sporting bodies that
just speak English, will you you know, I just don't
(10:46):
understand half of them.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Do you think he should be playing?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
What? What is he in the team or not? Can
you tell me?
Speaker 6 (10:53):
The team just saying as buttell he can't buy both ends.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
No, he's he's not on the team. Tom Blundell comes
back in for Mitch Hay and the team remains the same.
So they've got, you know, basically got fourteen young Christian
Clark embrace. Will will probably stay out in my my thinking,
Patel should go. And if they're picking him on the
(11:19):
hope that there's going to be spin and the deck
up there, then they've got a plan, for God's sake.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
When they play. When they plan, they've also got a
bowl on.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
That's true, So is the bowling attack likely to be watched?
Duffy Ray Folks and then two spinners Telling Phillips yeah yeah,
and a bit of a Revelder if you wanted him,
and a bit of Mitchell.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah. But you don't really want to get to that,
do you not?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Really?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Who's not giving the ball?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Conway? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (11:54):
We blundle with the pads on. He could always whip
those off. Williamson.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Williamson six hundred and ten runs short of ten thousand
Test runs? Do you reckon he's going to make it
ten thousand?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
There's one Test here, there's three Tests in England. Would
that be enough or as you have to go on
to Australia next summer?
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Well, I think if if his body holds together, he'll
want to finish in Australia. That'll be my pick.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Are there games against Sri Lanka after the Australian tour watch.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I'm not sure what is happening. I mean, we've got
India coming out here next year and Sri Lanka four
Test matches, so that would be enough, wouldn't it get
six hundred and ten runs?
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I would think he would try and get to the
back end of next season and that might be I
don't know how old Kane is now he must be
thirty five to thirty six, and you know when we
played thirty five, thirty six was old. And you know
these guys are much fitter, and you know the sports
science that goes into stuff. Now, I think age is relative.
(13:02):
But your eyesight does start to play a few tricks
with you.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
And I think that is just there are just suggestions.
All I can say is the words suggestions of it,
just a weave it. He's unfortunately he's batted on a
pitch at Hagley Oval which nipped about the first morning
when New Zealand batted first, he did the same, you know,
(13:27):
nipped about actually at the base and most most of
the Test match really and so he's missing more deliveries
than I'm seeing him in the past. He's playing and
missing now whether that's just the pitch, and I'm sure
he'll feel it might be, but the feet aren't quite
squaring up a little bit more. I'm seeing more of
(13:47):
his back shoulder, so that usually affects the back pass
and comes from outside, you know, instead of behind you.
It tends to come across the ball slightly, so you
miss it or you present an edge. There are just
little signs now that's I'm not suggesting that that's the
end of Williamson or anything like that. He's one of
(14:09):
our premiere players for a long time and he may
find bay Oval, which historically is an easier place to
bat than the basin and Hagley with grass on it.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So we'll wait and see. We'll wait and see.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
But he hasn't looked his easy self drives down the ground,
drives you know what I mean that he's looking for
a short ball to cut or to pull at the moment.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I mean he's one of those players who doesn't appear
to me as driven by stats. But I mean stats
are still significant, aren't they in what you do at
the top level. But it would be nice, I think
if he was able to achieve the stat of ten
thousand Test runs, because I think he'll be the only
(14:58):
New Zealander to do it, we won't see many other
opportunities in the future of players to get ten thousand
Test runs for this country.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
No, that's right, and we both know people who are
only driven by stats. But I don't think I've ever
met a cricketer who isn't aware of their own stats.
And he will be wanting to get six hundred odd runs.
You know, I've got absolutely no doubt. But he's not
the type of personality to say I'm going to you know,
(15:29):
it's a it's an aim, and I you know, I
want to average a hundred, you know, I want to
average eighty and the next four tests to do it.
You know, he's just not wired that way. He'll be
he'll be nice and low key, but it'll be it'll
be a goal, but it won't be well, you won't
open up his coffin and find it taped to the
tape to the lid.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
The butchering a number three days for the black Caps
then seems convincing that I'm not sure it was as
emphatic as they would want. There's still plenty to improve
on half the test. I decided to elicit the views
of a man who's enjoyed success at the base in reserve,
best Test bowling figures and best Test score, a man
well versed in knocking the opposition over now doing the
(16:11):
same on TV commentary. You're Wagner, how are you enjoying
the new role?
Speaker 7 (16:17):
Yeah, enjoying its thanks Wat's do fair learning experience, trying
to find my feet and yeah, a lot that goes
on behind the scenes that you weren't aware of a
lot of people are aware of, especially when you play
the game. Just a lot of things to bring that
production out of the world. So, yeah, learning, learning as
I go on, and starting to get more confident and
(16:38):
feel more positive as it sort of goes on. But yeah,
enjoying it. It's nice to stay involved in the game
that I loved and been involved with for so long.
It's a nice way to, yeah, to be able to
watch cricket and to talk about I guess those experiences
and knowledge and be able to share around.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, from your your point of view, I suppose it's
a same stress around test credit.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Slightly different, Yeah, definitely slightly different.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
You don't have the excellent stress of being out there
having to perform, and sometimes that coul al must be
worse because you want to be out there and enjoying.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yourself because you don't have troil over things. But yeah,
definitely a little bit of.
Speaker 7 (17:11):
Anxiety and nerves on them, which is quite nice to
be able to replicate their feeling with your head when
you when you bay cricket. But it's a it's a yeah,
it's an awesome way to stay involved made and like
I said, I'm still learning, but yeah, but yeah, great
to see, you know, the definitis on a cricket.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And being being tested and people standing up using their
opportunity this week.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, while your experience, of course takes you into the
country box, you know what it's like to about a
little less the important part of the role. Talk about
the test and what went on here West and these
two steps forward and christ shit two steps back? Here
did they Well?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I think they started really well. They showed some promise.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
I thought they apply themselves nicely the crease and and
and I thought they played really prayed really wealth will start.
They all got starts, they built in a partnership. They've
just been able to depth long enough and to kick on. Yeah,
the frustrating things obviously they lose wickets and clumps which
put them under pressure, but that's scripted to the black Caps.
And I thought the way they bowled and the way
(18:05):
they feeled it, I thought the guys everyone had to
impact on the field. Things grow from from crist set
and conditions was different again, which I thought was more
in favor of his Zealand bowlers.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
But yeah, there was there was areas where they put
in his Zellan and.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Uppression, they look like they could get ahead of the game.
They just couldn't quite put it together for long enough.
And that's what New Zealand did. They under pressure, they
found ways of building partnerships and getting him to the title.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
They've got into a lead.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
And then as a bowling unit they bowled together and
got the ball in the right ears for longer.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I thought their a depted better than what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Is that You're real area of expertise is with the
bowling and you talk about the depth being tested and
it certainly has been now where we're really getting down
in dept. And it's great that they can still come forward.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Through these players.
Speaker 7 (18:51):
Well it shows you know, definitely you said domestic cricket,
but also in the way that people have been able
to perform and domestic cricket shows are strong the messic gamers,
but you face conditions that's similar. So when you do
a role like Michael Ray's done for Canterbury, being able
to come in and do it's exactly what he's been
doing and know that it's good enough to be able
(19:12):
to do in test cricket, it's just to be able
to do it for long enough. You realize that wickets
to get flatter quicker and you have to have the
wicket harder and your marginal were as smaller. So as
soon as you miss international guys capitalizing it quite quickly.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
So I thought they've done well again.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
Like I said, it shows the depth and how good
his Onllic Cricket have done domestically and hopefully it can
continue because now at the moment, all those bottles away,
the domestic game is an appointment that's going to get
tested again too, So it's growing opportunities all around.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You know that that ball is getting that's a factored light.
But are we putting them too much under cotton morson
on the bowls and not using them. I mean I've
heard that those who are being left out in the
babno want to be playing.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, they want to be playing.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
There's the argument that you know they have not played
enough cricket and not have the overs under the belt.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's a problem to be able to look into.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
How can they prepare better and get themselves I guess
ready to play test cricket.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, it is a concern.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
It is because of I guess obviously a lot of
T twenty cricket at the moment is a big diet
of four at cricket and Test cricket. So the guys
are not getting the workload and that they need, and
they are not getting the conditioning they need because of
all the formats around the world. So so yeah, it's
definitely concern all around the world at the moment, not
just in New Zealand, but it's something that needs to
be addressed.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, I know you've got to get away the test over,
you're heading off home and what do you expect from
momentuing will the pitch be the same as here as Christiers? How,
pictures are pretty similar, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah? Not in Bay Oval.
Speaker 7 (20:41):
I think just because of the weather they're at dryer,
the surface is dryer, the grounds different, different outfield and grass.
I expect there's going to be a dryer surface. I
expect because of the workload of all the bowlers, they
might go spin heavy.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It might just be three seamers and by the extra spinners.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
That's what I'm kind of thinking, just to be able
to manage that workload and not get bollers to fall injured. Again,
it's also a way of getting a mode of dismissal
over there. So yeah, it's going to be interesting that
it might play more to west than his end, but
again that will test as yell and bollers.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And is it you had to develop variety of deliveries?
How how hard is that as a bowler, How much
time you have to spend doing something different with the
wobble scene, with all these different varieties that botlers have got.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
Well, the more time you spend out of the middle,
the quick you start working that out.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And I think it's you know, you start seeing.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Guys developing those skills the longer they play first class
cricket and tapping to what's.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
In front of you.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
It's something that I've learned over a period of time
playing and like you said, the experience of first class
cricket and experienceive cricket all around the world, you start,
you know, trying to work on those different variations to
add to your repetite to be able to compete witheever
as a call upon so really seeing that it's just
the thing of the step up into international crickets is
(21:58):
trying to be more consistent for longer.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I hate to get away. I know you've got to
trip to Beharness. Crackton had you back here and willing there.
Nice to talk to you again about the finer things
of cricket.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Thanks Wag definitely, well, thanks for It's nice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
To talk to Brian Waddell Jeremy Coney on the front
foot last.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Week on the front foot we asked for transparency, what
is being planned and how should decisions be made? Don't
we need everybody singing from the same page rather than
a cacophony of silence seemingly costing a fortune the moment
you have cases and now that's King's Counsels for those
who don't know what I'm talking about. You're starting to
(22:37):
hemorrhage money. Aren't you better used for the development of
the game, and that's the job of cricket administrators. Ride
You've been involved in administration of the game in the
New Zealand. You've been the CEO at Canterbury, you've been
where you are now the Chief executive of Capital Football,
and you've had other administrative roles. You worked through the
(23:00):
contract issue of the year what round about two thousand
wasn't which was pretty a serious in terms of the
development of our players. And the involvement of our players.
What are you making of this current situation over particularly
the T twenty, but other issues in cricket administration.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well, first of all, I think they're all linked and
some of them are a bit of a misnoma, and
we seem to be focusing and on the proposed new
T twenty competition initially. And you know, I don't think
anyone's anti private money coming into the game, and if
(23:44):
it does, that's that's okay, but it needs to come
with some parameters attached to it. And what I can't
figure out is that the MAS want to be involved
in the private money but New Zealand Cricket isn't, And
I just sort of don't get that. You know, for
twenty five years, New Zealand Cricket have basically unders and
(24:10):
there isn't a major association currently that gets less than
seventy percent of their income from New Zealand cricket. And
the money that comes in from that, you know, funds
the game. It goes it goes right down. So there
certainly seems to be a discannect between New Zealand Cricket
and the major associations who I don't know what their
(24:33):
motivation is. But it does seem very very disjointed at
the moment. And certainly there's some stuff in the background
that with the with the with the chief executive that
appears to be real and that's unfortunate. You know, well,
we all know him and have known him for a while.
He's pretty competent young man. He you know, he is
(24:57):
what he is, but he's you know, he's he's not
hopeless at what he does. And I don't think we
have very many wonderfully competent administrators in the game to
be able to just give up on some because they
can sometimes do a bit difficult to deal with. And
(25:18):
there are you know, there are other bits and pieces.
You know, the New Zealand Cricket are trying to run
a process with Deloitte to have a look at all
the options, which I think is a good idea. I'm
not sure whether the other parties are contributing as much
as they should should to be able to do that.
But there's some questions was that you need to ask yourself?
Is you know, for years New Zealand Cricket's been trying
(25:41):
to get into the Big Bash and all of a sudden,
the Aussies are sort of saying, well, yeah, we wouldn't
mind you in the Big Bash. Well, there can only
be really one reason for that that their business isn't
probably going as well as it used to. And if
that's the case, you'd have to say the Big Bash
at some stage would be a prime candidate for an
(26:02):
offshore investor like the Indian money. Surely that's more attractive
at some stage than setting up a league in New
Zealand which is operating at the same time frame against
the South Africans and the Aussies. And so I start
to question all of that. I think, you know, who
are the people that we would be able to attract
(26:23):
to play in this league. Would it be a prerequisite
that all the top New Zealand players would play in
this league? To say, take Kane Williamson, if he got
an offer from South Africa which was worth more, what
would he do? Well, I guess I know what I'd do,
you know. So there's all these unanswerables and it's like
a sort of magpie with a little shiny object and
(26:46):
everyone's just sort of gravitating towards it. I think if
you went back to or three years and compared to
what's happening now to the silver Lake deal. I'll bet
you everybody wish they had their time again. You know,
the silver Lake deal was, you know, isn't a great deal.
And you know, I just really weary and I'd really
(27:08):
encourage people to just step back a little bit. It's
just a cess what's going on here. Let's get the
personality conflicts out of the way and just get some calm,
cool heads around the place. Don't seem to be very
many at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, that's a fair point, Gerry. I mean you would
have been talking about this issue, I'm sure during the
Test match with a lot of other people. And what
we ask for is, you know, a discussion without any animosity,
without any vitriol, and to discuss the issues what is
best for New Zealand and New Zealand cricketer. Is that
not a fairly simple thing. We talked about that last week.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Simple thing to say, wadds.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Maybe more difficult when you're involved in it to just
find that distance. Yeah, lots of turbulence and discussions swirling
around the Test match, not about the game, but more
about the maneuverings of the boar than the CEO and
the MAS and the fourth option that you know, the
(28:12):
twenty twenty competition.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
I was thinking what on earth I could say today
than what I said last week. But I couldn't understand
the need for the secrecy and the silence and the
lack of detail about that fourth option, which is the
one about the consortium and so on, and after all,
(28:37):
I mean, it seemed to me if it was the
best option for New Zealand cricket, then deloittees would recommend it.
Surely I didn't understand the ma's silence people in charge
of running the cricket in the regions, you know, clearly
with no one talking, there was a code of silence
(28:59):
from them. And about this fourth option. Now, the usual
arrangements as I understand it, with franchise teams and private
equity entering a competition that's not run by the controlling
board in that country is that money travels to the board,
you know, who have approved the competition and they provided
(29:20):
facilities like grounds and organized the calendar and so on
in order for it to run smoothly. But what if
the money doesn't travel in that direction to the board
and it takes a different route and removes them, you know,
(29:41):
from it, and in this case the MAAS so instead
of going to the board, it goes to the MS
and they run the matches in the regions on behalf
of the board, well.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
The owner of the league and excluding the and it
excludes the board.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
That's right, understanding, that's right. That was mine.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
I started to get that as well. And now you
can imagine of each of those six entities, those mas
Auckland and Wellington and ND and all, that they had
the chance to receive a large sum of money, way
bigger than normal than a standard for them. And they
could see the opportunity of complementing all their programs and
(30:25):
adding to facilities and lights and all the upgrades and
so on that they obviously dreamed about.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's a windfall, that's.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
A chance to change things in their region. Now that
might even render silence, And that makes it kind of
a bit of sense to me.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Now I'm starting to understand why that has happened.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
I also wondered why the change by those working on
behalf of the potential owners. Why'd they change from that?
Why didn't they go to the board. Well, if they
felt the New Zealand Board was being obstructive in any
way or not open to their option. They might seek
(31:08):
another avenue of structure, mightn't they. They might say, so
as we're not going in that direction which you normally go,
and we're going to go to another one. And it's
no secret that from time to time there have been
clashes of ideas or control. You only got to think
back to when McCullum and Taylor we're having that, you
(31:28):
know thing for the captaincy and the mas said, hey,
there's no one on the board who's got any cricket
knowledge at all.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
You can't make this decision.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
And so what MOLLA did in that case they actually
all resigned the board, didn't they And they then they
then changed the constitution and then got a new board.
So this is this is nothing new, guys, these things
think of the strike back in two thousand and two. Rido,
you were involved in that part, weren't you at some stage?
(32:00):
But I'm just saying these things have happened in the past,
and I'm you know, New Zealand Cricket. There's no doubt
they've been moving to secure more capital raising activities. That's
not a bad idea. They've looked after players as you've
said just one moment ago, Rito, they you know, they
(32:22):
they pay the players as a contract, they pay per match,
they own them commercially, they pay their insurance and medical matters,
and that's pretty important the moment with all the bowlers
busy ohs that they provide coaching, assistance and facilities to practice.
They're given their kit, they pay welfare for people you
(32:43):
know who are passed players and their lives haven't gone
so well. So they do offer some assistance and they
do you know, look after them about and I think
that's that need, that point needs to be made.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
But they have gone to the MLC, you know that odds.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
We've spoken about that those ancillary services and offered those
to the current teams. They've put their names up to
a franchise when it expands. They want to get involved
in that and have a share of it. They've you know,
they've battled over players rights issue that was recently We
(33:21):
recently spoke about you know, guys talking on the telly
if they haven't got their kit on or sponsorship things
and they have more private citizens.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
That's been an issue.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
So there have been a number of things I think
that have led under to the standoff, if we could
call it that at the moment.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Yeah, there's some, there's some other. I've been interested in
listening to some of the stuff and some of the
basically uninformed bits and pieces around the domestic T twenty
comp Currently, I hear people say, oh, yeah, but it
doesn't make it. You know, it doesn't make any money.
No competitions make any money. Like the four day comp
(34:08):
petition loses money playing at Shield, the fifty over competition
loses money. The T twenty competition loses money, and you
can and that's the same in rugby, Super Rugby loses money,
NPC loses money. There's only one P and L profit
and loss account in any of these professional sports in
New Zealand. It makes any money, and that's the All
Blacks in the Black Caps, and that comes from TV
(34:30):
rights and that money comes in at the top end
and then goes distributed through the system. I am really
I'd like to see the financials because I just don't
see how this domestic comp is going to make all
this money. You know, I know how much that the
(34:50):
various it's easy enough to find out that comes into
each major association. So crecket Wellington's about I think it's about.
It was five and a half six million dollar business
and seventy seventy percent of that comes from New Zealand football,
from in New Zealand cricket. So you know that's four
(35:12):
mil maybe a little bit more, and that would be
the same all around the country. So if all of
a sudden, you know there's going to be someone's going
to say there's millions more for a domestic T twenty
competition in January when the best players probably aren't playing
still aren't playing. I don't get it. And there's a
(35:33):
there's a there's a big guerrilla sitting in the corner
in a year's time, which is the renegotiation of the
Master Agreement between the Cricket Players Association and New Zealand Crew.
So say if there is a new league starting in
twenty seven or twenty eight, and you're a player who's
(35:54):
I don't know, sixteen contracted players was at domestic level.
If you are at number eight, say and you're on
say sixty grand, and you sort of get twenty twenty twenty,
you get twenty grand. For T twenty you get twenty
grandify the over as you get twenty grand for four
day and if New Zealand Cricket don't have anything to
(36:16):
do with the one day comp any longer, do you
think they're going to keep on shelling that sort of
money out? Of course down? You know, and you've got
a Credit Players Association. I'm not picking on the CPA,
but they are a union and I've never ever in
all my life heard a union take a pickup. So
you know, there's this big issue coming in about a
(36:39):
year's time. The current agreement or there is a percentage
of revenue I think it's mid thirties of consolidated revenue
of New Zealand crecket that excludes a few things but
goes to the players. So if New Zealand crickets revenue
goes down, guess what happens the players? The player's income
(36:59):
goes down. And are all the things that are linked
that nobody you're talking about or considering. They're just sort
of focusing on some stuff about the current ce you
know them as as Jerry put it, you know, the
silence the New Zealand Cricket board, it aren't showing much leadership.
They just you know, I would I'm not even sure
(37:21):
I know three or four people are on the board.
You know, it's it's it's it's worrying And Jerry's right,
and it's not limited to cricket. Sport eats itself about
every twenty years and we're just doing it again.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah. Well it's one of those interesting subjects. And I
think you're right about the income because of the icy C.
This is out the income to New Zealand cricket and
if the World Cup doesn't make money, then there's less
money to go unto the pot over a four year period,
isn't there.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Well that's right, And the growth of the private leagues
doesn't mean the TV money doesn't exist, because it does.
It just goes somewhere else and it doesn't go through
the icy C or through n Z at Sea and
down into the game. You know that, you know the
West Indies get get a cut of the Caribbean League.
I don't know. You know, you've got to have, as
(38:15):
Jerry said, you've got to have. This is where the
position of the MAAS. I don't get If that was
New Zealand Cricket in the agreement and not the MAAS,
that to me would make a hell of a lot
more sense.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, well, we've got a lot more to hear from this.
The interesting thing is the secrecy continues. I understand there's
a meeting somewhere somehow this week and we'll find out
a little more about that. Thanks very much for joining
us this week.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Read.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I'd like to get you back on this issue on
a future occasion as and when things starting to develop,
because we'll see what this meeting produces, and I'm sure
you'll be following it with the interest that you have
shown in the past because you've been involved, as to say,
in terms of the administration of not only cricket but football.
(39:10):
So thanks very much for joining us. Have a good
Christmas as well.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Thank you. Nice to see you both.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Ah ight Redo, Tach care mate.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Thanks Reder guys, see you Heky Pine out, Yeah, and Jerry.
We will talk again next week after the Test match
at Bay Park. I hope you have fine ready to go,
got the tonsils loosened up nicely and are ready for
the action.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Well, it's been gargling of course, eating plenty of boiled eggs.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Get the voice ready by.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
It's actually quite an important match, isn't it, Because there
are no dead games in this World Test Championship. You
need your twelve points in playing against a side that
might be below you in the list, it's very important
you have your wins to get your points because most
other sides might get their points against them as well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's you know, well, I mean, it's
fascinating in terms of you know, where New Zealand can
go from this. The final thought this week, Jerry, just
before we go, did you ever carry your pillow around
when you're a cricket.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Game, not to the cricket game.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
I think I've seen players take their pillows to Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, Bocky did, didn't we He did?
Speaker 6 (40:33):
He did, And it kind of makes a bit of sense.
All that fills the bag quite quickly, you know. It
takes up quite a lot of space, so you've got
to leave your boots at home.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
It was the choice in those days, that was the choice. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
No, it'll be interesting and I didn't know about those changes,
as I said, so I'll be interested to see what
what happens there.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Stop sleeping during the middle of the night and you'll
keep up to date with all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, I must do that. Ond I do. I do
wake up, but usually for another reason.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, all right, we'll you have your nap in the morning.
Look forward to hearing you from the Test match and
we'll review it next week.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Jerry, all right, well, let's take care mate.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Cheers and nice also to have had Rito. Will listen.
He makes some interesting points, so we'll get to get
him back and talk about decision as it develops. Cheers
all the world.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Of summer.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Y take another Patrick, It is out, the test is over.
Couldn't as smooth beauty it is out.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Here he goes.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This delivery has in many uses to bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
On the front foot where Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney,
powered by News Talks dead B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, nice to have you on the front foot for
the raisine color shots, your color and the decorating experts.
I stepped forward at Hagley, two steps back at the
base in the West Indies, now fighting to square the
World Test Championship Series. Do we care that Joffra Archer
took us pillow to the cricket? Is that being over
prepared perhaps you should have stowed it in his often
(01:09):
And as New Zealand Cricket administration become a secret society
fiddling with our game, so they owe us, the stakeholders,
to be upfront and organized in their decision making. We'll
discuss those issues on this week's edition. Jeremy Coney is
with me a special guest, a man who's got a
bit of expertise in dealing with the top level sporting
(01:31):
establishments in cricket and in football. Richard Reid Redo, nice
to have you. We'll talk about cricket's major issue at
the moment. But I'm disappointed you weren't able to get
to the cricket on Saturday. Did you have your ticket
to return and get money back?
Speaker 5 (01:52):
No? I didn't. I don't have a ticket. No I
didn't get there. I had a few issues that I
had to deal with, but I was observing what was
going on. Three and four day game. Well, games that
seem to finish a day or a day and a
half early, doesn't matter. Will five or four day games
seem to be rather prevalent at the moment.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, Jerry, you would have enjoyed having the weekend at
home and not having to start work on a Wednesday
again this week. I think you start Thursday this coming week,
don't you.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Well, I was there, was I had to see it,
and yeah, I did appreciate the couple of days back here,
which is great, and picked on not such a nice
day today, but a cracker yesterday. So yeah, a comprehensive
nine wicket win.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, that's what it'll look like in the in the history,
won't that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean that's that's what the stats books say.
But I'm not sure that it was a convincing performance
by the New Zealand side when you look at the
way the team has developed. I guess the one real
positive that's come out of this series is Jacob Duffy
(03:09):
read o, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah, he's he's done well. The batting has been a
bit brutal, too many people getting starts and you know,
not not not getting known. They should have. They should
have got well over four hundred I thought in the
first in the first dig. But yeah, Duffy's done well.
He hasn't played for a while and he's come back. Yeah,
he's good. And you know, on our wickets, the guys
(03:35):
that came in Ray et cetera. You know that competent bowlers.
I'm not too sure I'd want to see them up
against on on on lossy wicket, but we're not playing
a lossy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, Jerry. That The interesting thing, of course, is that
they've replaced a pace bowler with a left arm spinner.
Ages Patel is back into the New Zealand side. Surely
he's not coming in just to say farewell. At his
retirement speech like they did to New York wagner Jerry.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Well, I don't know what they're doing. I didn't know that,
but thank you for telling me. I really I'm up
with the news. Yeah. Look, well he's normally our Asian specialist,
doesn't he He plays in Bangladesh, and he plays in
Sri Lanka, and he plays in India basically Pakistan. He
(04:28):
doesn't normally play here. I don't has he played one
Test match in New Zealand maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
One, yeah, about five years ago.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I think one of the most amazing statistics is I
don't know how many wickets he's got, but it'd be
sixty or seventy eighty five and he hasn't got one
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, and that was about four years ago. At the
basis of the funny part about that Test he played against,
it was India. I think we might have been Sri Lanka.
He bowled three overs in the first innings and three
overs in the second inning, so he was used very,
very sparingly, and they were saving him for bay Oval, Jerry.
So you'll be able to watch him twelve around up there.
(05:11):
The bowling attack for New Zealand interesting what Rito said about,
you know, fronting up against some really good size and
good batting. I just wonder whether Folks is a new
ball bowler or whether he should be a first change
or a second change. He's a seamer, is he an
all round her in making? Do you think?
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Well, you're asking me first, I would say he's he's slightly.
I mean, he's different than the other three seamers we
had in Wellington. Isn't he Ray who had had seventy
odd first class matches, so he's had plenty of He's
been there eleven years, Tickner who had been there for
(05:53):
a long time as well. And Duffy we know has
been there a long time. So he was the kind
of the odd man out the young man if you like.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
He relies on swing he has.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
He operates between about a high one twenties to low
one thirties, no more.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He needs the new ball.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
Therefore, what does he do later on and the Test
matched in the innings? There's a question mark about can
he bowl as many overs as say Duffy does? You'd
think so, but he hasn't so far as far as
the all rounder is concerned. Yeah, he can hold about
(06:34):
a bit but he bats about number nine at the moment,
and if he wants to have a future, I think
he's probably going to have to work pretty hard at
that and develop his bowl. He that develops an outswinger
as well as an in swinger, because he often comes
around quite wide on the crease around the wicket to
left handed batsman, and he's got to get it exactly right,
(06:56):
and he uses his swing to try and bring the
slips into play, but he's got to bring one back
as well. Otherwise they're just leaving it all the time.
So he's got a few little issues. But he's in
its early days. Wad how many has he had? Three tests?
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
So early keen.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
Young man, and probably right now the red ball game
is for you know, is showing him a few things
that the white ball doesn't. You know, he gets guys
playing big shots at him.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I see him as a sort of vying with Nathan Smith,
similar kind of role.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Exactly, and he's got to improve both disciplines, both as
batting and his bowling. I'd say Smith is ahead in both.
I think Smith when he plays has been batting at eight.
But you know, I could certainly see him Betty higher
than that, and he's got a bit more He's got
a bit more zip to him from a bowling point
of view. But you know, he did okay, but both
(07:57):
disciplines would need to improve. Certainly. Jerry was on the
mark of the couple. I haven't seen enough of him
with the bat, but he's not I don't think he's
in Smith's league yet.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
No, And the worrying thing from the Smith's point of
view is that you know he's injury prone, and I
just wonder whether his career is going to be blighted
by injuries. Are we going to get consistency from him?
That's worry, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Wadd's yeah, I don't know what you can do about that.
It reminds me of a very different shaped gentleman called
Aoram who they tried to alter from his what you
might call his natural speed that he bowled at and
they tried to upgrade that to try and get more
out of him, and he then started having injuries.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Whether Smith is pushing.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
His body too much, I don't know, but he's a
more of a skiddy type bowler, doesn't seem to and
appear to have the movement that's quite required yet at
international level to be dangerous if you can play the
line of the ball, and Rido's mentioned Australia. Basically, if
(09:08):
you bowl in Australia you can't move the ball or
hit the pitch really hard, you're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You play through the line and you get you get hit.
I'm afraid interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Kyle Jamison on press release. The reason why you haven't
heard the team before now, Jerry, is that it came
out while you and I were asleep and I just
happened to wake up. But part of the press release said.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Can't sleep in the middle of the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, we still do. I've got to get an hour
just to get me through to the evening. Kyle Jamison
is I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I'm not going to allow you to say that. Read Okay, so.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
On commentary the other day, Jerry, Yeah no.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That was that was when I sleep.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, Anyway, what New Zealand Cricket were telling us about.
Kyle Jamison's progressing well through his Red Bull return to
play plan. He'll continue to work closely with Black Caps
support staff on his return to the Test arena. Jamison
is working through a conditioning block after a full start
(10:16):
to the summer. What the hell does that mean? A
conditioning block? Did you ever do a conditioning block?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Reno?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Oh you know, I'm.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Sorry you probably yeah all the time. Yeah, yeah. I
sometimes think that Jerry's commanded the English language is better
than yours and mine. Wards, But sometimes some of these
statements that come out from semi corporatized sporting bodies that
just speak English, will you you know, I just don't
(10:46):
understand half of them.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Do you think he should be playing?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
What? What is he in the team or not? Can
you tell me?
Speaker 6 (10:53):
The team just saying as buttell he can't buy both ends.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
No, he's he's not on the team. Tom Blundell comes
back in for Mitch Hay and the team remains the same.
So they've got, you know, basically got fourteen young Christian
Clark embrace. Will will probably stay out in my my thinking,
Patel should go. And if they're picking him on the
(11:19):
hope that there's going to be spin and the deck
up there, then they've got a plan, for God's sake.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
When they play. When they plan, they've also got a
bowl on.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
That's true, So is the bowling attack likely to be watched?
Duffy Ray Folks and then two spinners Telling Phillips yeah yeah,
and a bit of a Revelder if you wanted him,
and a bit of Mitchell.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah. But you don't really want to get to that,
do you not?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Really?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Who's not giving the ball?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Conway? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (11:54):
We blundle with the pads on. He could always whip
those off. Williamson.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Williamson six hundred and ten runs short of ten thousand
Test runs? Do you reckon he's going to make it
ten thousand?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
There's one Test here, there's three Tests in England. Would
that be enough or as you have to go on
to Australia next summer?
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Well, I think if if his body holds together, he'll
want to finish in Australia. That'll be my pick.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Are there games against Sri Lanka after the Australian tour watch.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I'm not sure what is happening. I mean, we've got
India coming out here next year and Sri Lanka four
Test matches, so that would be enough, wouldn't it get
six hundred and ten runs?
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I would think he would try and get to the
back end of next season and that might be I
don't know how old Kane is now he must be
thirty five to thirty six, and you know when we
played thirty five, thirty six was old. And you know
these guys are much fitter, and you know the sports
science that goes into stuff. Now, I think age is relative.
(13:02):
But your eyesight does start to play a few tricks
with you.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
And I think that is just there are just suggestions.
All I can say is the words suggestions of it,
just a weave it. He's unfortunately he's batted on a
pitch at Hagley Oval which nipped about the first morning
when New Zealand batted first, he did the same, you know,
(13:27):
nipped about actually at the base and most most of
the Test match really and so he's missing more deliveries
than I'm seeing him in the past. He's playing and
missing now whether that's just the pitch, and I'm sure
he'll feel it might be, but the feet aren't quite
squaring up a little bit more. I'm seeing more of
(13:47):
his back shoulder, so that usually affects the back pass
and comes from outside, you know, instead of behind you.
It tends to come across the ball slightly, so you
miss it or you present an edge. There are just
little signs now that's I'm not suggesting that that's the
end of Williamson or anything like that. He's one of
(14:09):
our premiere players for a long time and he may
find bay Oval, which historically is an easier place to
bat than the basin and Hagley with grass on it.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So we'll wait and see. We'll wait and see.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
But he hasn't looked his easy self drives down the ground,
drives you know what I mean that he's looking for
a short ball to cut or to pull at the moment.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I mean he's one of those players who doesn't appear
to me as driven by stats. But I mean stats
are still significant, aren't they in what you do at
the top level. But it would be nice, I think
if he was able to achieve the stat of ten
thousand Test runs, because I think he'll be the only
(14:58):
New Zealander to do it, we won't see many other
opportunities in the future of players to get ten thousand
Test runs for this country.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
No, that's right, and we both know people who are
only driven by stats. But I don't think I've ever
met a cricketer who isn't aware of their own stats.
And he will be wanting to get six hundred odd runs.
You know, I've got absolutely no doubt. But he's not
the type of personality to say I'm going to you know,
(15:29):
it's a it's an aim, and I you know, I
want to average a hundred, you know, I want to
average eighty and the next four tests to do it.
You know, he's just not wired that way. He'll be
he'll be nice and low key, but it'll be it'll
be a goal, but it won't be well, you won't
open up his coffin and find it taped to the
tape to the lid.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
The butchering a number three days for the black Caps
then seems convincing that I'm not sure it was as
emphatic as they would want. There's still plenty to improve
on half the test. I decided to elicit the views
of a man who's enjoyed success at the base in reserve,
best Test bowling figures and best Test score, a man
well versed in knocking the opposition over now doing the
(16:11):
same on TV commentary. You're Wagner, how are you enjoying
the new role?
Speaker 7 (16:17):
Yeah, enjoying its thanks Wat's do fair learning experience, trying
to find my feet and yeah, a lot that goes
on behind the scenes that you weren't aware of a
lot of people are aware of, especially when you play
the game. Just a lot of things to bring that
production out of the world. So, yeah, learning, learning as
I go on, and starting to get more confident and
(16:38):
feel more positive as it sort of goes on. But yeah,
enjoying it. It's nice to stay involved in the game
that I loved and been involved with for so long.
It's a nice way to, yeah, to be able to
watch cricket and to talk about I guess those experiences
and knowledge and be able to share around.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, from your your point of view, I suppose it's
a same stress around test credit.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Slightly different, Yeah, definitely slightly different.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
You don't have the excellent stress of being out there
having to perform, and sometimes that coul al must be
worse because you want to be out there and enjoying.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yourself because you don't have troil over things. But yeah,
definitely a little bit of.
Speaker 7 (17:11):
Anxiety and nerves on them, which is quite nice to
be able to replicate their feeling with your head when
you when you bay cricket. But it's a it's a yeah,
it's an awesome way to stay involved made and like
I said, I'm still learning, but yeah, but yeah, great
to see, you know, the definitis on a cricket.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And being being tested and people standing up using their
opportunity this week.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, while your experience, of course takes you into the
country box, you know what it's like to about a
little less the important part of the role. Talk about
the test and what went on here West and these
two steps forward and christ shit two steps back? Here
did they Well?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I think they started really well. They showed some promise.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
I thought they apply themselves nicely the crease and and
and I thought they played really prayed really wealth will start.
They all got starts, they built in a partnership. They've
just been able to depth long enough and to kick on. Yeah,
the frustrating things obviously they lose wickets and clumps which
put them under pressure, but that's scripted to the black Caps.
And I thought the way they bowled and the way
(18:05):
they feeled it, I thought the guys everyone had to
impact on the field. Things grow from from crist set
and conditions was different again, which I thought was more
in favor of his Zealand bowlers.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
But yeah, there was there was areas where they put
in his Zellan and.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Uppression, they look like they could get ahead of the game.
They just couldn't quite put it together for long enough.
And that's what New Zealand did. They under pressure, they
found ways of building partnerships and getting him to the title.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
They've got into a lead.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
And then as a bowling unit they bowled together and
got the ball in the right ears for longer.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I thought their a depted better than what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Is that You're real area of expertise is with the
bowling and you talk about the depth being tested and
it certainly has been now where we're really getting down
in dept. And it's great that they can still come forward.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Through these players.
Speaker 7 (18:51):
Well it shows you know, definitely you said domestic cricket,
but also in the way that people have been able
to perform and domestic cricket shows are strong the messic gamers,
but you face conditions that's similar. So when you do
a role like Michael Ray's done for Canterbury, being able
to come in and do it's exactly what he's been
doing and know that it's good enough to be able
(19:12):
to do in test cricket, it's just to be able
to do it for long enough. You realize that wickets
to get flatter quicker and you have to have the
wicket harder and your marginal were as smaller. So as
soon as you miss international guys capitalizing it quite quickly.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
So I thought they've done well again.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
Like I said, it shows the depth and how good
his Onllic Cricket have done domestically and hopefully it can
continue because now at the moment, all those bottles away,
the domestic game is an appointment that's going to get
tested again too, So it's growing opportunities all around.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You know that that ball is getting that's a factored light.
But are we putting them too much under cotton morson
on the bowls and not using them. I mean I've
heard that those who are being left out in the
babno want to be playing.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, they want to be playing.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
There's the argument that you know they have not played
enough cricket and not have the overs under the belt.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's a problem to be able to look into.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
How can they prepare better and get themselves I guess
ready to play test cricket.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, it is a concern.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
It is because of I guess obviously a lot of
T twenty cricket at the moment is a big diet
of four at cricket and Test cricket. So the guys
are not getting the workload and that they need, and
they are not getting the conditioning they need because of
all the formats around the world. So so yeah, it's
definitely concern all around the world at the moment, not
just in New Zealand, but it's something that needs to
be addressed.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, I know you've got to get away the test over,
you're heading off home and what do you expect from
momentuing will the pitch be the same as here as Christiers? How,
pictures are pretty similar, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah? Not in Bay Oval.
Speaker 7 (20:41):
I think just because of the weather they're at dryer,
the surface is dryer, the grounds different, different outfield and grass.
I expect there's going to be a dryer surface. I
expect because of the workload of all the bowlers, they
might go spin heavy.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It might just be three seamers and by the extra spinners.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
That's what I'm kind of thinking, just to be able
to manage that workload and not get bollers to fall injured. Again,
it's also a way of getting a mode of dismissal
over there. So yeah, it's going to be interesting that
it might play more to west than his end, but
again that will test as yell and bollers.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And is it you had to develop variety of deliveries?
How how hard is that as a bowler, How much
time you have to spend doing something different with the
wobble scene, with all these different varieties that botlers have got.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
Well, the more time you spend out of the middle,
the quick you start working that out.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And I think it's you know, you start seeing.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Guys developing those skills the longer they play first class
cricket and tapping to what's.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
In front of you.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
It's something that I've learned over a period of time
playing and like you said, the experience of first class
cricket and experienceive cricket all around the world, you start,
you know, trying to work on those different variations to
add to your repetite to be able to compete witheever
as a call upon so really seeing that it's just
the thing of the step up into international crickets is
(21:58):
trying to be more consistent for longer.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I hate to get away. I know you've got to
trip to Beharness. Crackton had you back here and willing there.
Nice to talk to you again about the finer things
of cricket.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Thanks Wag definitely, well, thanks for It's nice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
To talk to Brian Waddell Jeremy Coney on the front
foot last.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Week on the front foot we asked for transparency, what
is being planned and how should decisions be made? Don't
we need everybody singing from the same page rather than
a cacophony of silence seemingly costing a fortune the moment
you have cases and now that's King's Counsels for those
who don't know what I'm talking about. You're starting to
(22:37):
hemorrhage money. Aren't you better used for the development of
the game, and that's the job of cricket administrators. Ride
You've been involved in administration of the game in the
New Zealand. You've been the CEO at Canterbury, you've been
where you are now the Chief executive of Capital Football,
and you've had other administrative roles. You worked through the
(23:00):
contract issue of the year what round about two thousand
wasn't which was pretty a serious in terms of the
development of our players. And the involvement of our players.
What are you making of this current situation over particularly
the T twenty, but other issues in cricket administration.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well, first of all, I think they're all linked and
some of them are a bit of a misnoma, and
we seem to be focusing and on the proposed new
T twenty competition initially. And you know, I don't think
anyone's anti private money coming into the game, and if
(23:44):
it does, that's that's okay, but it needs to come
with some parameters attached to it. And what I can't
figure out is that the MAS want to be involved
in the private money but New Zealand Cricket isn't, And
I just sort of don't get that. You know, for
twenty five years, New Zealand Cricket have basically unders and
(24:10):
there isn't a major association currently that gets less than
seventy percent of their income from New Zealand cricket. And
the money that comes in from that, you know, funds
the game. It goes it goes right down. So there
certainly seems to be a discannect between New Zealand Cricket
and the major associations who I don't know what their
(24:33):
motivation is. But it does seem very very disjointed at
the moment. And certainly there's some stuff in the background
that with the with the with the chief executive that
appears to be real and that's unfortunate. You know, well,
we all know him and have known him for a while.
He's pretty competent young man. He you know, he is
(24:57):
what he is, but he's you know, he's he's not
hopeless at what he does. And I don't think we
have very many wonderfully competent administrators in the game to
be able to just give up on some because they
can sometimes do a bit difficult to deal with. And
(25:18):
there are you know, there are other bits and pieces.
You know, the New Zealand Cricket are trying to run
a process with Deloitte to have a look at all
the options, which I think is a good idea. I'm
not sure whether the other parties are contributing as much
as they should should to be able to do that.
But there's some questions was that you need to ask yourself?
Is you know, for years New Zealand Cricket's been trying
(25:41):
to get into the Big Bash and all of a sudden,
the Aussies are sort of saying, well, yeah, we wouldn't
mind you in the Big Bash. Well, there can only
be really one reason for that that their business isn't
probably going as well as it used to. And if
that's the case, you'd have to say the Big Bash
at some stage would be a prime candidate for an
(26:02):
offshore investor like the Indian money. Surely that's more attractive
at some stage than setting up a league in New
Zealand which is operating at the same time frame against
the South Africans and the Aussies. And so I start
to question all of that. I think, you know, who
are the people that we would be able to attract
(26:23):
to play in this league. Would it be a prerequisite
that all the top New Zealand players would play in
this league? To say, take Kane Williamson, if he got
an offer from South Africa which was worth more, what
would he do? Well, I guess I know what I'd do,
you know. So there's all these unanswerables and it's like
a sort of magpie with a little shiny object and
(26:46):
everyone's just sort of gravitating towards it. I think if
you went back to or three years and compared to
what's happening now to the silver Lake deal. I'll bet
you everybody wish they had their time again. You know,
the silver Lake deal was, you know, isn't a great deal.
And you know, I just really weary and I'd really
(27:08):
encourage people to just step back a little bit. It's
just a cess what's going on here. Let's get the
personality conflicts out of the way and just get some calm,
cool heads around the place. Don't seem to be very
many at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, that's a fair point, Gerry. I mean you would
have been talking about this issue, I'm sure during the
Test match with a lot of other people. And what
we ask for is, you know, a discussion without any animosity,
without any vitriol, and to discuss the issues what is
best for New Zealand and New Zealand cricketer. Is that
not a fairly simple thing. We talked about that last week.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Simple thing to say, wadds.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Maybe more difficult when you're involved in it to just
find that distance. Yeah, lots of turbulence and discussions swirling
around the Test match, not about the game, but more
about the maneuverings of the boar than the CEO and
the MAS and the fourth option that you know, the
(28:12):
twenty twenty competition.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
I was thinking what on earth I could say today
than what I said last week. But I couldn't understand
the need for the secrecy and the silence and the
lack of detail about that fourth option, which is the
one about the consortium and so on, and after all,
(28:37):
I mean, it seemed to me if it was the
best option for New Zealand cricket, then deloittees would recommend it.
Surely I didn't understand the ma's silence people in charge
of running the cricket in the regions, you know, clearly
with no one talking, there was a code of silence
(28:59):
from them. And about this fourth option. Now, the usual
arrangements as I understand it, with franchise teams and private
equity entering a competition that's not run by the controlling
board in that country is that money travels to the board,
you know, who have approved the competition and they provided
(29:20):
facilities like grounds and organized the calendar and so on
in order for it to run smoothly. But what if
the money doesn't travel in that direction to the board
and it takes a different route and removes them, you know,
(29:41):
from it, and in this case the MAAS so instead
of going to the board, it goes to the MS
and they run the matches in the regions on behalf
of the board, well.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
The owner of the league and excluding the and it
excludes the board.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
That's right, understanding, that's right. That was mine.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
I started to get that as well. And now you
can imagine of each of those six entities, those mas
Auckland and Wellington and ND and all, that they had
the chance to receive a large sum of money, way
bigger than normal than a standard for them. And they
could see the opportunity of complementing all their programs and
(30:25):
adding to facilities and lights and all the upgrades and
so on that they obviously dreamed about.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's a windfall, that's.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
A chance to change things in their region. Now that
might even render silence, And that makes it kind of
a bit of sense to me.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Now I'm starting to understand why that has happened.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
I also wondered why the change by those working on
behalf of the potential owners. Why'd they change from that?
Why didn't they go to the board. Well, if they
felt the New Zealand Board was being obstructive in any
way or not open to their option. They might seek
(31:08):
another avenue of structure, mightn't they. They might say, so
as we're not going in that direction which you normally go,
and we're going to go to another one. And it's
no secret that from time to time there have been
clashes of ideas or control. You only got to think
back to when McCullum and Taylor we're having that, you
(31:28):
know thing for the captaincy and the mas said, hey,
there's no one on the board who's got any cricket
knowledge at all.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
You can't make this decision.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
And so what MOLLA did in that case they actually
all resigned the board, didn't they And they then they
then changed the constitution and then got a new board.
So this is this is nothing new, guys, these things
think of the strike back in two thousand and two. Rido,
you were involved in that part, weren't you at some stage?
(32:00):
But I'm just saying these things have happened in the past,
and I'm you know, New Zealand Cricket. There's no doubt
they've been moving to secure more capital raising activities. That's
not a bad idea. They've looked after players as you've
said just one moment ago, Rito, they you know, they
(32:22):
they pay the players as a contract, they pay per match,
they own them commercially, they pay their insurance and medical matters,
and that's pretty important the moment with all the bowlers
busy ohs that they provide coaching, assistance and facilities to practice.
They're given their kit, they pay welfare for people you
(32:43):
know who are passed players and their lives haven't gone
so well. So they do offer some assistance and they
do you know, look after them about and I think
that's that need, that point needs to be made.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
But they have gone to the MLC, you know that odds.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
We've spoken about that those ancillary services and offered those
to the current teams. They've put their names up to
a franchise when it expands. They want to get involved
in that and have a share of it. They've you know,
they've battled over players rights issue that was recently We
(33:21):
recently spoke about you know, guys talking on the telly
if they haven't got their kit on or sponsorship things
and they have more private citizens.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
That's been an issue.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
So there have been a number of things I think
that have led under to the standoff, if we could
call it that at the moment.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Yeah, there's some, there's some other. I've been interested in
listening to some of the stuff and some of the
basically uninformed bits and pieces around the domestic T twenty
comp Currently, I hear people say, oh, yeah, but it
doesn't make it. You know, it doesn't make any money.
No competitions make any money. Like the four day comp
(34:08):
petition loses money playing at Shield, the fifty over competition
loses money. The T twenty competition loses money, and you
can and that's the same in rugby, Super Rugby loses money,
NPC loses money. There's only one P and L profit
and loss account in any of these professional sports in
New Zealand. It makes any money, and that's the All
Blacks in the Black Caps, and that comes from TV
(34:30):
rights and that money comes in at the top end
and then goes distributed through the system. I am really
I'd like to see the financials because I just don't
see how this domestic comp is going to make all
this money. You know, I know how much that the
(34:50):
various it's easy enough to find out that comes into
each major association. So crecket Wellington's about I think it's about.
It was five and a half six million dollar business
and seventy seventy percent of that comes from New Zealand football,
from in New Zealand cricket. So you know that's four
(35:12):
mil maybe a little bit more, and that would be
the same all around the country. So if all of
a sudden, you know there's going to be someone's going
to say there's millions more for a domestic T twenty
competition in January when the best players probably aren't playing
still aren't playing. I don't get it. And there's a
(35:33):
there's a there's a big guerrilla sitting in the corner
in a year's time, which is the renegotiation of the
Master Agreement between the Cricket Players Association and New Zealand Crew.
So say if there is a new league starting in
twenty seven or twenty eight, and you're a player who's
(35:54):
I don't know, sixteen contracted players was at domestic level.
If you are at number eight, say and you're on
say sixty grand, and you sort of get twenty twenty twenty,
you get twenty grand. For T twenty you get twenty
grandify the over as you get twenty grand for four
day and if New Zealand Cricket don't have anything to
(36:16):
do with the one day comp any longer, do you
think they're going to keep on shelling that sort of
money out? Of course down? You know, and you've got
a Credit Players Association. I'm not picking on the CPA,
but they are a union and I've never ever in
all my life heard a union take a pickup. So
you know, there's this big issue coming in about a
(36:39):
year's time. The current agreement or there is a percentage
of revenue I think it's mid thirties of consolidated revenue
of New Zealand crecket that excludes a few things but
goes to the players. So if New Zealand crickets revenue
goes down, guess what happens the players? The player's income
(36:59):
goes down. And are all the things that are linked
that nobody you're talking about or considering. They're just sort
of focusing on some stuff about the current ce you
know them as as Jerry put it, you know, the
silence the New Zealand Cricket board, it aren't showing much leadership.
They just you know, I would I'm not even sure
(37:21):
I know three or four people are on the board.
You know, it's it's it's it's worrying And Jerry's right,
and it's not limited to cricket. Sport eats itself about
every twenty years and we're just doing it again.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah. Well it's one of those interesting subjects. And I
think you're right about the income because of the icy C.
This is out the income to New Zealand cricket and
if the World Cup doesn't make money, then there's less
money to go unto the pot over a four year period,
isn't there.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Well that's right, And the growth of the private leagues
doesn't mean the TV money doesn't exist, because it does.
It just goes somewhere else and it doesn't go through
the icy C or through n Z at Sea and
down into the game. You know that, you know the
West Indies get get a cut of the Caribbean League.
I don't know. You know, you've got to have, as
(38:15):
Jerry said, you've got to have. This is where the
position of the MAAS. I don't get If that was
New Zealand Cricket in the agreement and not the MAAS,
that to me would make a hell of a lot
more sense.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, well, we've got a lot more to hear from this.
The interesting thing is the secrecy continues. I understand there's
a meeting somewhere somehow this week and we'll find out
a little more about that. Thanks very much for joining
us this week.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Read.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I'd like to get you back on this issue on
a future occasion as and when things starting to develop,
because we'll see what this meeting produces, and I'm sure
you'll be following it with the interest that you have
shown in the past because you've been involved, as to say,
in terms of the administration of not only cricket but football.
(39:10):
So thanks very much for joining us. Have a good
Christmas as well.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Thank you. Nice to see you both.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Ah ight Redo, Tach care mate.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Thanks Reder guys, see you Heky Pine out, Yeah, and Jerry.
We will talk again next week after the Test match
at Bay Park. I hope you have fine ready to go,
got the tonsils loosened up nicely and are ready for
the action.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Well, it's been gargling of course, eating plenty of boiled eggs.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Get the voice ready by.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
It's actually quite an important match, isn't it, Because there
are no dead games in this World Test Championship. You
need your twelve points in playing against a side that
might be below you in the list, it's very important
you have your wins to get your points because most
other sides might get their points against them as well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's you know, well, I mean, it's
fascinating in terms of you know, where New Zealand can
go from this. The final thought this week, Jerry, just
before we go, did you ever carry your pillow around
when you're a cricket.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Game, not to the cricket game.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
I think I've seen players take their pillows to Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, Bocky did, didn't we He did?
Speaker 6 (40:33):
He did, And it kind of makes a bit of sense.
All that fills the bag quite quickly, you know. It
takes up quite a lot of space, so you've got
to leave your boots at home.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
It was the choice in those days, that was the choice. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
No, it'll be interesting and I didn't know about those changes,
as I said, so I'll be interested to see what
what happens there.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Stop sleeping during the middle of the night and you'll
keep up to date with all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, I must do that. Ond I do. I do
wake up, but usually for another reason.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, all right, we'll you have your nap in the morning.
Look forward to hearing you from the Test match and
we'll review it next week.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Jerry, all right, well, let's take care mate.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Cheers and nice also to have had Rito. Will listen.
He makes some interesting points, so we'll get to get
him back and talk about decision as it develops. Cheers
all the world.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Of summer.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
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