October 24, 2024 • 23 mins
For something a bit different this week, Thomas is joined by Scott Brown, who served as the US Ambassador to New Zealand during Donald Trump's term as President. He discusses his views on what the big issues to voters are, and why he believes Trump will be voted in for another term.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome John the Tiles the New Zealand Heralds politics podcast.
I'm your host Thomas Coglin, the deputy political editor of
The Herald. Obviously, there's a big election coming up in
the United States next month, so to help us help
us sort of understand that and get some reflections on that,
I'm joined by Scott Brown. Now, Scott Brown will be
well known to me in New Zealanders. He was the
US Investor to New Zealand under the Donald Trump administration
(00:29):
and twenty ten Scott Brown sort of appeared on the
national stage in the United States after winning a special
election to become the Senator for Massachusetts following the death
of Ted Kennedy. He held the seat for a couple
of years before losing to Democratic challenger Elizabeth Warren, and
then followed the path which led him down here to Wellington. Scott,
thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
If you are Tennakoto, it's agreed to be on and
I hope a lot of my Kimby friends hear this,
so let me know when it's on and I'll be
happy to give him a heads up. So great to
speak with you and Gil and of very very fond
memories of New Zealand. I have my phanama one and
you know, haven't taken it off and like eight years.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. So, Scott,
do you want to just give us your reflections on
the on the side of the rice at the moment.
It's been a bit of a part of a wild
wild year. It's pretty difficult. So the guy choosing hedonism,
he's behind.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
It's certainly been been interesting. But respectfully, I've noticed in
your country you've had some pretty good elections as well.
With New Zealand first and the first go around, the
second go around, and the third go around. You know,
the ups and downs and holding up government, sitting and
that sort of thing. So it happens. That's what happens
when you have a process, you know, a constitutional republic
(01:48):
like ours, and they follow a democratic process to allow
everyone to be heard. You know, it was very messy.
It's how our four followers wanted it to be, those
checks and balances. But yes, it's been unusual, to say
the least, and I've certainly followed it very very closely. Yeah, listen,
if you told me that Kamala Harris would be where
(02:11):
she is today, I would have said no way. She
received no votes by any election. She actually dropped out
with less than two percent when she ran for president,
and during her administration she has been basically non existent.
Now all of a sudden, she's going to be the
so called change agent and she's going to go and
(02:32):
do all these amazing things. Yet, as Brett Bhaer asked her,
well you've been there three and a half years already,
Like why havent you've done it? And really that's what
the race is all about. People will and are very
very closely now looking as to how it was under
President of Trouble. We had low inflation, the voter was
pretty much getting secured, if not secured. The crossings were
(02:52):
way way down, Bentonol was down, her mortgage rates were down,
people had a lot of savings were the job creation
and wages for minorities and others were up dramatically, and
energy was their energy independent for the first time. And
I think in my lifetime and now we're not. You know,
we've had over what fifteen sixteen million people coming in illegally.
(03:16):
We don't even know who some of them are. They
just let them go. That would never happen in a
country like New Zealand ever. Yet here we are and
it's happened, and it's putting a real strain on the
economies of not only our states, but obviously our country
as a whole. There are some cities that have put
billions of dollars in giving housing and cash, cards and
(03:38):
phones to people that are here illegally. Yet they're citizens,
veterans and minorities and people that are struggling dramatically or
getting nothing. And this was a tremendous amount of resentment.
So if you asked me three weeks ago who would win,
I'd say it is probably the vice president. She probably
was going to win, but her strategy has been a
terrible one in my estimation of hiding. Has not done
(04:00):
any real interviews, you know, spur of the moment a
press conferences. Any interview that she has done, it's only recently.
They've been scripted and edited, and you know, she basically
is producing words salad. You know, she's using sound bites,
she's using a teleprompter. You have Vance and Trump, They've
had almost twice as many interviews, and they just do
(04:21):
it spur the moment anywhere as answer anything any time,
and people notice.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So you think the race is fundamentally changed in the
last in the last three weeks. And it is because
of it is because of the excess that Donald trumps
As and JD. Vance have granted to each other.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's just one factor, but it's a big factor. It's
a big factor because yeah, he was down to nationally,
now he's up to he's leading. And I believe this
my last time I checked in all the battleground states.
The crowds are amazing. The money is coming in on
both sides. They'll have plenty of money and that's not you.
But people are recognizing that. They're like, Okay, where does
(04:59):
she stand on a B, C, D, E F G.
Like we know everyone knows who President Trump is, where
you like him or not. You know where he stands.
You know what he believes in and they know JD.
Vance as well, But they don't know Kamala Harris because
she doesn't really allowed access into her her beliefs. Were
like what are her policies on on certain things? And
(05:21):
you really don't know, And that is driving the train
with a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's a fair to say, I suppose New Zealand's had
immigration elections as well, though it tends to be the
level of legal migration rather than than illegally migration. That
that that swings right here. It is it better to
say that from what you from what you've just said
that the issues that sort of driving this campaign are
do you feel better off than you were four years ago?
With the level of inflation that that that America's experienced
(05:47):
a lot of people don't feel better off than they
were four years ago because they're not same as in
New Zealand. But people are, people are worse off than
they were some before the inflation spike. Uh and and
and then also this this illegal migration issue, which which
which people really struggled to solve, and I mean Donald
Trump struggled to solve it as well. The border wall
was not completely built.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well the whole time out. But first of all, there
are three things that are driving this election. It's the economy, stupid,
not your stupid, but that's what you say.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I know, the price.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Because inflation has been coming down, but it went up
dramatically and prices absolutely have not gone down. The cost
of groceries is still up thirty percent. Energy is twice
as high. When I came back from New Zealand, it
was a dollar eighty one per gallon. I just paid
three point fifty nine a gallon. So people have less
money in their pockets, they have less savings. It's also
about obviously illegal immigration, the fact that you have people
(06:45):
coming here, and under Donald Trump, we had a million
people coming in legally. But to have fifteen million people
just carte blanche coming through our community communities in our
states and being shipped quietly all over the country by
this administration is outrageous.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Do you subscribe to the idea that I mean, obviously
Kamala Harris was delegated responsibility for the border and has
failed to secure it. But do you do you subscribe
to the view that that that is a long term
democratic ploy to create a voter base for themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Listen, I only know what I've what I worked on
in my three years in the Senate and when I
worked on as an ambassador, you know, looking at these
issues very closely and seeing what I see now being
intimately involved with working with my former colleagues and understanding
the challenges. My wife visited the border, you know, saw
all the cartels, you know, running drugs and human drug
(07:43):
and child trafficking right under the nose of the border
patrol agents, all the border patrol agents. Is the stay
in Mexico policy to be in effect, and President Biden
took that away and they're overwhelmed. They're basically just giving
out tickets that are worth worthless. Yeah, listen, it's a
it's a democratic issue right now because they've let it
go to a point where it's never happened like that
(08:05):
in our country ever.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Can you explain this the stay in Mexico policy to
meet so that that that is, once you arrive in
the United States, it becomes easier to to push push
people back into Mexico. No, he don't know, it's that
they don't arrive.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Basically, stay in Mexico is in agreement with the Mexican
government that hey, listen, any who is coming, you keep
them on your side of the border. We'll have the judges,
the hearing officers will let them in, we'll vet them,
we'll properly screen them, and we'll let them in, you know,
one by one.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
But once you.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Come into the United States, then your then your rights,
if you have any rights at all, change a little bit.
And then you know, they're saying, oh, I'm seeking political
assignment asylum, and then there are certain guidelines that you
have to follow. But to keep them in stay in
Mexico policy. Just keep them there right there.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And so so and so. The the the immigration, the
judicial part of the asylum claim was done in Mexico somewhere.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And then when yes, and somewhere, and when they get
to the United States, then it's a different different followers.
That's why you want to keep them.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Do you think the United States, you know, would be
to served by uh, perhaps assisting Latin American countries to
pulse to their ownst of economic prosperity and security to
to to PEPs perhaps uh, you know, altering domestic American
policies on on on drug use to just to bring
(09:42):
a bit more domestic security to to Latin American countries
from which these migrants come.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, listen, permissive drug use. I'm not in favor of it.
A lot of states are legalizing marijuana. I think it's
it's different than back in the sixties and seventies when
it was stems and dirt and and twigs. It's it's
highly highly engineered psychedelic drug and I'm not in favor
(10:07):
of it to somehow to think, somehow that legalizing drug
use would would make our society better. We already have
people stoned out of their brains all over the place,
and work productivity and other side effects, especially for our youth,
is wrong. But we give a tremendous amount as a
country to many, many countries. We're one of those philanthropic
(10:27):
countries in the world, giving money, an aid to a
lot of the Central American countries, you know, making sure
that they have the tools and resources you need they
need to basically keep their people there. But you know,
you have governments in those countries, respectfully, they're you know,
they're they're not good people, and they're not taking care
of their citizens. They're you know, pocketing a lot of
(10:48):
those moneies. And yeah, it's a problem. I wish I
had a larger geopolitical answer on that. It's going to
take more than just us to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Pivot a bit, pivot of the economy. You know, you
you're you're right regarding inflation, you know, terrible, terrible story
in the US, terrible here, terrible everywhere. But you know,
there are so there, there have been many positive, many
positive parts of the Biden administration's economic congender. Unemployment stayed
relatively particularly given you know that that the disruption caused
by the pandemic. You guys measure it slightly differently to us,
(11:31):
but it's hovering just about four percent, was in the
threes last year, if you in terms of a roughly
a roughly equivalent metric to to to the way that
New Zealand measures that, you know, that's that's that's not
bad for a period of relatively high interest rates and
and an economic kind of disruption. I mean, I mean
in New Zealand, people don't seem to vote based on
the unemployment rape. I'm sure it's somemilar. In America, unemployed
(11:55):
people I assume to vote less than the employed people,
and employed people tend not to really based their their
their vote on on on the unemployment rate. But but
there is a there is a positive economic story to
be said about it by the administration, obviously less the
the inflation story. Do you think Kamala Harris is deliberately
not not not leaning into that that positive storage trying
(12:17):
to ignore the the economy on her on her campaign.
I've watched a few of his speeches. She doesn't. She
tends to focus more on she's like abortion, cultural issues
rather than economic ones. Is that is that a deliberate.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
You said the positive policies you named unemployment, that's one, Respectfully,
a lot of those jobs that they've gotten back were
jobs that were lost as a result of the pandemic,
just like in New Zealand. And have they had increased
job growth, yes, they have to the point where it
should have been. No, because you had the high inflation.
You have incredible debt accumulating, not only on our national debt,
(12:53):
but credit card debt for individuals is and the delinquency
associated with that is getting off the charts now and
that's usually a really bad sign that is going to
be an economic downturn. Mortgage rates were the highest that
they've been in decades that I remember, and you had
a lot of other things that were happening obviously. What so, Yes,
(13:15):
there's a reason she doesn't talk about the economy because
she is responsible for the economy. But she's the change agent.
Don't forget. She's going to be the change agent. And
people once again, not tension brought, but they're going to
look at this is very simple they're going to look
at what it was like under President Trump and what
it's like now. And that's all I'm hearing about. They're
(13:37):
looking at what they have in their pocketbooks and wallets
right now, the amount of savings they have, and what
they're spending when they didn't have to spend it. It's
only because of poor decision making by this government. And
then they're looking at obviously crime in the border. Those
are those things that bothered them the most.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
The other, I mean, the other positive story is white growth.
I mean the by mean early you know, less so
less so in the last couple of years, but but
early on part partly as a result of that inflation
spikes we fear. But but you know that the by
the administration saw some of the fastest wage growth in
the last sixty seven seventy years. I think you know
(14:17):
that that's that's a pretty that's you know, it's not
a bad bad record. It's kind of it's I suppose
it's just interesting that you definitely have that inflation issue,
which was toxic in New Zealand And and and arguably
cost cost the government. We have over here that the
one that the one that wasn't powering you were investor
arguably cost that yeah, yeah, and it arguably cost that government,
(14:42):
cost that government the election. But you know, it is
interesting that you do you do have in the States,
definitely a bad inflation story, but not a bad jobs
and wages story. But that inflation issue is just so
toxic that that that Karmala Harris doesn't seem to even
want to talk about the.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Economy, even though listen, it's always good. I'm in full
favor of getting people as much money as they can
when they work. You know, if they're working and they're
working hard, they should be rewarded. I've always felt that way,
and as you probably recall, my mom was on welfare,
you know, so I remember what it was like to
(15:19):
get those big blocks of cheese and powdered milk from
the big truck that used to come around. So, you know,
working and having the pride of working is very important
to me and many others. But the problem is with
that wage growth, the inflation surpassed it dramatically, so it's irrelevant.
It might as well been the same as it was before.
While they have more money, they're having to spend that
(15:41):
money on goods that they otherwise didn't have to spend
money on under President Trump. So stay wage growth, and
then you have President Trump come in and do what
he did, then they're great. They put money in their
pockets left and right, but that's not happening.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
How familiar are you with the swing states of selection?
You know? Do you think do you think you shoes
changed you get into those those type races in those
states or are they the same issues they are nationally states?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, listen, I'm following them. I'm supporting some of the folks.
And yeah, I think I think Montana is not a
swing state, but I think Montana is going to change.
I think McCormick and McCormick in Pennsylvania is very close.
He's apparently up. Yeah, I think I think the Senate
is going to be Republican, honestly, and I think the
House is it's going to be like it is now
(16:27):
either way, three or four or five people either way.
But I think the Senate, I think the Senate will flip.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Right, and so so you could have a you could
have a I mean, I think this morning, I've seen
Nate Silver's Nate Silver's projecting a Trump, a Trump win,
a narrow Trump win statistical ties and most of the
swing states, all the swing states, I guess. But but
but but still projecting a narrow Trump wins, and then
(16:56):
you could sweep cong where the Republicans could could sweep
them in Congress. Actually, and then you've got to you've
you've you've got two years of a lot of letteritude
to do a lot of stuff that could be They
could be quite big for the Republicans in the United States.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, but don't forget you know, President Obama, when I
first got elected, they had the majority. They only had
forty one senators, they had a super majority. They had
a super majority until I got there, and then I
stopped the foolbuster. And they had two years to do
everything and anything they wanted, and they didn't. And then
you know, the President Trump, he had the same thing.
You know, if I'm not mistaken, did he Yeah? I
(17:33):
think yeah, we had the Senate, Yeah, and they did nothing.
So they have a they have a way the people
when they're in charge, they have a way of screwing
it up and actually working together and just like saying, okay,
what do we want to do? What do we all
agree on? Well, I would argue that we could all
agree on the safety and security of our children in schools,
(17:54):
the safety and security of our cities, helping our veterans,
securing the boarder, making sure that people show their identification.
I believe they do that in New Zealand. I'm almost
sure of it. You have to show an ID. What's
the big deal because when you go to a Kamala
Harris rally, you have to show an ID to get in.
Is that more important than voting?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
No? Yeah, you don't need idea to vote here, though.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Really I thought you did. But when I went in
they asked me for my my ID.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
No you don't, You don't need Yeah, no, no, I
think it's it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm here without even blinking. You're gonna have an idea
to get into Kamala's rallies.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So come on, I mean, it looks I mean, just
just on current polling, it looks like a supermajority is
pretty unlikely either way and the selection. So I suppose
that that that congressional good luck will will persist for
another company? Is how do you find congress I mean people,
it's it's kind of it's it doesn't have a good
(19:03):
good reputation in New Zealand, there's a legis giolargic because
it doesn't seem to be able to get anything anything done.
Do you feel like this is kind of it's it's
sort of democratic. It's it's it's it's mandate, I guess
is being eroded by the faith that it's so good loved.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, you don't need a super majority to get things done.
As long as you have a majority, they can do
a lot because a lot of a lot of things
are passed by by majority of some majorities here. Yeah, so,
but so only if it ever gets they try to override,
then they need you know, obviously you know more oades
for that. That being said, is that a bad thing?
(19:46):
Not getting anything done? Sometimes the government you can do
more harm when they actually do things that quite frankly
hurt individuals, whether it's over regulation or over taxation. I
mean Kamala Harris is looking to tax on it unrealized gains.
That means if you are in New Zealand, you buy
a house in the Wayerapa for five hundred thousand, and
(20:08):
because the economy is coming back and everything's going well,
it's now worth a million. Well, you're going to be
paying taxes on that million, not the five hundred thousand.
We have it right now that if you sell the house,
that's when you pay your capital gains, but not not
until then come out almost change it. So every business,
every house, everybody would would be paying these these unrealized taxes.
(20:28):
You don't know if things are going to go down,
you don't know if they're going to do sideways. That's
that's outrageous. So people are paying attention to the far far,
far left economic policies for lack of international and foreign experience.
You just see how she responds to a simple Brett
Bear interview, and you know, I meagine her going up
in g and conjuncts like what never never going to happen.
(20:54):
That's what people are saying.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
The britbau Folks interview was was was quite something. I
have to say, although I you know, what, what do
you think I've heard debate with Donald Trump? I would
have I would have called that for her. I thought
she probably performed better than he did that night. And
then he hasn't, he hasn't put himself up to debate
her again.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, heard her expectations were very low and did
she Yeah, yeah, she did, but did she?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Once again, I think it was just an expectation game. No,
I thought she probably just in general.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I thought it was basically a draw, right, I didn't
think it was. President Trump says, and I love debating,
and I offered to go down there and help. And
you know, I don't think it was his best certainly,
but uh, you know, people know where he's stand on
the stands.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, are you do you still keep in touch with
Donald Trump?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I keep in touch with with a lot of his team.
Obviously he's busy doing what he does, but yeah, I
speak to a lot of the people.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sure would you like would you like a role in
a future administration?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That's totally up to him, you know what his needs
will be.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Fuir enough, Hey, Scott, that's probably all we've all we've
got time for. So so thank you very much for
joining us. Really appreciate it, and thanks for sharing your
insights into the race and into the race of us.
We hope to see you back down here soon.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to get down there. And my
bandmates Bruce and Meghan said call out in lower height,
and all my other mates who I enjoyed doing triathlons,
with and coaching basketball and yeah, so we're going to
get back there. Just looking at the flight schedules, so
trying to get that back.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Hey, thank you so much for spinning, spinning your afternoon
with us, Scott. I really appreciate it. That was on
the tiles for another week. That was Scott Brown. I'm
heading to the United States next week for the US
presidential election campaigns. I'll be on the ground near bringing
you on the tiles from a different hemisphere, which would
(22:52):
be very exciting. So thanks to the U. S. State Department
for for give me grant to cover that and we'll
will we will talk to you next week from the
United States. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
H
Welcome John the Tiles the New Zealand Heralds politics podcast.
I'm your host Thomas Coglin, the deputy political editor of
The Herald. Obviously, there's a big election coming up in
the United States next month, so to help us help
us sort of understand that and get some reflections on that,
I'm joined by Scott Brown. Now, Scott Brown will be
well known to me in New Zealanders. He was the
US Investor to New Zealand under the Donald Trump administration
(00:29):
and twenty ten Scott Brown sort of appeared on the
national stage in the United States after winning a special
election to become the Senator for Massachusetts following the death
of Ted Kennedy. He held the seat for a couple
of years before losing to Democratic challenger Elizabeth Warren, and
then followed the path which led him down here to Wellington. Scott,
thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
If you are Tennakoto, it's agreed to be on and
I hope a lot of my Kimby friends hear this,
so let me know when it's on and I'll be
happy to give him a heads up. So great to
speak with you and Gil and of very very fond
memories of New Zealand. I have my phanama one and
you know, haven't taken it off and like eight years.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. So, Scott,
do you want to just give us your reflections on
the on the side of the rice at the moment.
It's been a bit of a part of a wild
wild year. It's pretty difficult. So the guy choosing hedonism,
he's behind.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
It's certainly been been interesting. But respectfully, I've noticed in
your country you've had some pretty good elections as well.
With New Zealand first and the first go around, the
second go around, and the third go around. You know,
the ups and downs and holding up government, sitting and
that sort of thing. So it happens. That's what happens
when you have a process, you know, a constitutional republic
(01:48):
like ours, and they follow a democratic process to allow
everyone to be heard. You know, it was very messy.
It's how our four followers wanted it to be, those
checks and balances. But yes, it's been unusual, to say
the least, and I've certainly followed it very very closely. Yeah, listen,
if you told me that Kamala Harris would be where
(02:11):
she is today, I would have said no way. She
received no votes by any election. She actually dropped out
with less than two percent when she ran for president,
and during her administration she has been basically non existent.
Now all of a sudden, she's going to be the
so called change agent and she's going to go and
(02:32):
do all these amazing things. Yet, as Brett Bhaer asked her,
well you've been there three and a half years already,
Like why havent you've done it? And really that's what
the race is all about. People will and are very
very closely now looking as to how it was under
President of Trouble. We had low inflation, the voter was
pretty much getting secured, if not secured. The crossings were
(02:52):
way way down, Bentonol was down, her mortgage rates were down,
people had a lot of savings were the job creation
and wages for minorities and others were up dramatically, and
energy was their energy independent for the first time. And
I think in my lifetime and now we're not. You know,
we've had over what fifteen sixteen million people coming in illegally.
(03:16):
We don't even know who some of them are. They
just let them go. That would never happen in a
country like New Zealand ever. Yet here we are and
it's happened, and it's putting a real strain on the
economies of not only our states, but obviously our country
as a whole. There are some cities that have put
billions of dollars in giving housing and cash, cards and
(03:38):
phones to people that are here illegally. Yet they're citizens,
veterans and minorities and people that are struggling dramatically or
getting nothing. And this was a tremendous amount of resentment.
So if you asked me three weeks ago who would win,
I'd say it is probably the vice president. She probably
was going to win, but her strategy has been a
terrible one in my estimation of hiding. Has not done
(04:00):
any real interviews, you know, spur of the moment a
press conferences. Any interview that she has done, it's only recently.
They've been scripted and edited, and you know, she basically
is producing words salad. You know, she's using sound bites,
she's using a teleprompter. You have Vance and Trump, They've
had almost twice as many interviews, and they just do
(04:21):
it spur the moment anywhere as answer anything any time,
and people notice.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So you think the race is fundamentally changed in the
last in the last three weeks. And it is because
of it is because of the excess that Donald trumps
As and JD. Vance have granted to each other.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's just one factor, but it's a big factor. It's
a big factor because yeah, he was down to nationally,
now he's up to he's leading. And I believe this
my last time I checked in all the battleground states.
The crowds are amazing. The money is coming in on
both sides. They'll have plenty of money and that's not you.
But people are recognizing that. They're like, Okay, where does
(04:59):
she stand on a B, C, D, E F G.
Like we know everyone knows who President Trump is, where
you like him or not. You know where he stands.
You know what he believes in and they know JD.
Vance as well, But they don't know Kamala Harris because
she doesn't really allowed access into her her beliefs. Were
like what are her policies on on certain things? And
(05:21):
you really don't know, And that is driving the train
with a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's a fair to say, I suppose New Zealand's had
immigration elections as well, though it tends to be the
level of legal migration rather than than illegally migration. That
that that swings right here. It is it better to
say that from what you from what you've just said
that the issues that sort of driving this campaign are
do you feel better off than you were four years ago?
With the level of inflation that that that America's experienced
(05:47):
a lot of people don't feel better off than they
were four years ago because they're not same as in
New Zealand. But people are, people are worse off than
they were some before the inflation spike. Uh and and
and then also this this illegal migration issue, which which
which people really struggled to solve, and I mean Donald
Trump struggled to solve it as well. The border wall
was not completely built.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well the whole time out. But first of all, there
are three things that are driving this election. It's the economy, stupid,
not your stupid, but that's what you say.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I know, the price.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Because inflation has been coming down, but it went up
dramatically and prices absolutely have not gone down. The cost
of groceries is still up thirty percent. Energy is twice
as high. When I came back from New Zealand, it
was a dollar eighty one per gallon. I just paid
three point fifty nine a gallon. So people have less
money in their pockets, they have less savings. It's also
about obviously illegal immigration, the fact that you have people
(06:45):
coming here, and under Donald Trump, we had a million
people coming in legally. But to have fifteen million people
just carte blanche coming through our community communities in our
states and being shipped quietly all over the country by
this administration is outrageous.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Do you subscribe to the idea that I mean, obviously
Kamala Harris was delegated responsibility for the border and has
failed to secure it. But do you do you subscribe
to the view that that that is a long term
democratic ploy to create a voter base for themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Listen, I only know what I've what I worked on
in my three years in the Senate and when I
worked on as an ambassador, you know, looking at these
issues very closely and seeing what I see now being
intimately involved with working with my former colleagues and understanding
the challenges. My wife visited the border, you know, saw
all the cartels, you know, running drugs and human drug
(07:43):
and child trafficking right under the nose of the border
patrol agents, all the border patrol agents. Is the stay
in Mexico policy to be in effect, and President Biden
took that away and they're overwhelmed. They're basically just giving
out tickets that are worth worthless. Yeah, listen, it's a
it's a democratic issue right now because they've let it
go to a point where it's never happened like that
(08:05):
in our country ever.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Can you explain this the stay in Mexico policy to
meet so that that that is, once you arrive in
the United States, it becomes easier to to push push
people back into Mexico. No, he don't know, it's that
they don't arrive.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Basically, stay in Mexico is in agreement with the Mexican
government that hey, listen, any who is coming, you keep
them on your side of the border. We'll have the judges,
the hearing officers will let them in, we'll vet them,
we'll properly screen them, and we'll let them in, you know,
one by one.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
But once you.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Come into the United States, then your then your rights,
if you have any rights at all, change a little bit.
And then you know, they're saying, oh, I'm seeking political
assignment asylum, and then there are certain guidelines that you
have to follow. But to keep them in stay in
Mexico policy. Just keep them there right there.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And so so and so. The the the immigration, the
judicial part of the asylum claim was done in Mexico somewhere.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And then when yes, and somewhere, and when they get
to the United States, then it's a different different followers.
That's why you want to keep them.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Do you think the United States, you know, would be
to served by uh, perhaps assisting Latin American countries to
pulse to their ownst of economic prosperity and security to
to to PEPs perhaps uh, you know, altering domestic American
policies on on on drug use to just to bring
(09:42):
a bit more domestic security to to Latin American countries
from which these migrants come.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, listen, permissive drug use. I'm not in favor of it.
A lot of states are legalizing marijuana. I think it's
it's different than back in the sixties and seventies when
it was stems and dirt and and twigs. It's it's
highly highly engineered psychedelic drug and I'm not in favor
(10:07):
of it to somehow to think, somehow that legalizing drug
use would would make our society better. We already have
people stoned out of their brains all over the place,
and work productivity and other side effects, especially for our youth,
is wrong. But we give a tremendous amount as a
country to many, many countries. We're one of those philanthropic
(10:27):
countries in the world, giving money, an aid to a
lot of the Central American countries, you know, making sure
that they have the tools and resources you need they
need to basically keep their people there. But you know,
you have governments in those countries, respectfully, they're you know,
they're they're not good people, and they're not taking care
of their citizens. They're you know, pocketing a lot of
(10:48):
those moneies. And yeah, it's a problem. I wish I
had a larger geopolitical answer on that. It's going to
take more than just us to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Pivot a bit, pivot of the economy. You know, you
you're you're right regarding inflation, you know, terrible, terrible story
in the US, terrible here, terrible everywhere. But you know,
there are so there, there have been many positive, many
positive parts of the Biden administration's economic congender. Unemployment stayed
relatively particularly given you know that that the disruption caused
by the pandemic. You guys measure it slightly differently to us,
(11:31):
but it's hovering just about four percent, was in the
threes last year, if you in terms of a roughly
a roughly equivalent metric to to to the way that
New Zealand measures that, you know, that's that's that's not
bad for a period of relatively high interest rates and
and an economic kind of disruption. I mean, I mean
in New Zealand, people don't seem to vote based on
the unemployment rape. I'm sure it's somemilar. In America, unemployed
(11:55):
people I assume to vote less than the employed people,
and employed people tend not to really based their their
their vote on on on the unemployment rate. But but
there is a there is a positive economic story to
be said about it by the administration, obviously less the
the inflation story. Do you think Kamala Harris is deliberately
not not not leaning into that that positive storage trying
(12:17):
to ignore the the economy on her on her campaign.
I've watched a few of his speeches. She doesn't. She
tends to focus more on she's like abortion, cultural issues
rather than economic ones. Is that is that a deliberate.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
You said the positive policies you named unemployment, that's one, Respectfully,
a lot of those jobs that they've gotten back were
jobs that were lost as a result of the pandemic,
just like in New Zealand. And have they had increased
job growth, yes, they have to the point where it
should have been. No, because you had the high inflation.
You have incredible debt accumulating, not only on our national debt,
(12:53):
but credit card debt for individuals is and the delinquency
associated with that is getting off the charts now and
that's usually a really bad sign that is going to
be an economic downturn. Mortgage rates were the highest that
they've been in decades that I remember, and you had
a lot of other things that were happening obviously. What so, Yes,
(13:15):
there's a reason she doesn't talk about the economy because
she is responsible for the economy. But she's the change agent.
Don't forget. She's going to be the change agent. And
people once again, not tension brought, but they're going to
look at this is very simple they're going to look
at what it was like under President Trump and what
it's like now. And that's all I'm hearing about. They're
(13:37):
looking at what they have in their pocketbooks and wallets
right now, the amount of savings they have, and what
they're spending when they didn't have to spend it. It's
only because of poor decision making by this government. And
then they're looking at obviously crime in the border. Those
are those things that bothered them the most.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
The other, I mean, the other positive story is white growth.
I mean the by mean early you know, less so
less so in the last couple of years, but but
early on part partly as a result of that inflation
spikes we fear. But but you know that the by
the administration saw some of the fastest wage growth in
the last sixty seven seventy years. I think you know
(14:17):
that that's that's a pretty that's you know, it's not
a bad bad record. It's kind of it's I suppose
it's just interesting that you definitely have that inflation issue,
which was toxic in New Zealand And and and arguably
cost cost the government. We have over here that the
one that the one that wasn't powering you were investor
arguably cost that yeah, yeah, and it arguably cost that government,
(14:42):
cost that government the election. But you know, it is
interesting that you do you do have in the States,
definitely a bad inflation story, but not a bad jobs
and wages story. But that inflation issue is just so
toxic that that that Karmala Harris doesn't seem to even
want to talk about the.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Economy, even though listen, it's always good. I'm in full
favor of getting people as much money as they can
when they work. You know, if they're working and they're
working hard, they should be rewarded. I've always felt that way,
and as you probably recall, my mom was on welfare,
you know, so I remember what it was like to
(15:19):
get those big blocks of cheese and powdered milk from
the big truck that used to come around. So, you know,
working and having the pride of working is very important
to me and many others. But the problem is with
that wage growth, the inflation surpassed it dramatically, so it's irrelevant.
It might as well been the same as it was before.
While they have more money, they're having to spend that
(15:41):
money on goods that they otherwise didn't have to spend
money on under President Trump. So stay wage growth, and
then you have President Trump come in and do what
he did, then they're great. They put money in their
pockets left and right, but that's not happening.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
How familiar are you with the swing states of selection?
You know? Do you think do you think you shoes
changed you get into those those type races in those
states or are they the same issues they are nationally states?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, listen, I'm following them. I'm supporting some of the folks.
And yeah, I think I think Montana is not a
swing state, but I think Montana is going to change.
I think McCormick and McCormick in Pennsylvania is very close.
He's apparently up. Yeah, I think I think the Senate
is going to be Republican, honestly, and I think the
House is it's going to be like it is now
(16:27):
either way, three or four or five people either way.
But I think the Senate, I think the Senate will flip.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Right, and so so you could have a you could
have a I mean, I think this morning, I've seen
Nate Silver's Nate Silver's projecting a Trump, a Trump win,
a narrow Trump win statistical ties and most of the
swing states, all the swing states, I guess. But but
but but still projecting a narrow Trump wins, and then
(16:56):
you could sweep cong where the Republicans could could sweep
them in Congress. Actually, and then you've got to you've
you've you've got two years of a lot of letteritude
to do a lot of stuff that could be They
could be quite big for the Republicans in the United States.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, but don't forget you know, President Obama, when I
first got elected, they had the majority. They only had
forty one senators, they had a super majority. They had
a super majority until I got there, and then I
stopped the foolbuster. And they had two years to do
everything and anything they wanted, and they didn't. And then
you know, the President Trump, he had the same thing.
You know, if I'm not mistaken, did he Yeah? I
(17:33):
think yeah, we had the Senate, Yeah, and they did nothing.
So they have a they have a way the people
when they're in charge, they have a way of screwing
it up and actually working together and just like saying, okay,
what do we want to do? What do we all
agree on? Well, I would argue that we could all
agree on the safety and security of our children in schools,
(17:54):
the safety and security of our cities, helping our veterans,
securing the boarder, making sure that people show their identification.
I believe they do that in New Zealand. I'm almost
sure of it. You have to show an ID. What's
the big deal because when you go to a Kamala
Harris rally, you have to show an ID to get in.
Is that more important than voting?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
No? Yeah, you don't need idea to vote here, though.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Really I thought you did. But when I went in
they asked me for my my ID.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
No you don't, You don't need Yeah, no, no, I
think it's it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm here without even blinking. You're gonna have an idea
to get into Kamala's rallies.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So come on, I mean, it looks I mean, just
just on current polling, it looks like a supermajority is
pretty unlikely either way and the selection. So I suppose
that that that congressional good luck will will persist for
another company? Is how do you find congress I mean people,
it's it's kind of it's it doesn't have a good
(19:03):
good reputation in New Zealand, there's a legis giolargic because
it doesn't seem to be able to get anything anything done.
Do you feel like this is kind of it's it's
sort of democratic. It's it's it's it's mandate, I guess
is being eroded by the faith that it's so good loved.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, you don't need a super majority to get things done.
As long as you have a majority, they can do
a lot because a lot of a lot of things
are passed by by majority of some majorities here. Yeah, so,
but so only if it ever gets they try to override,
then they need you know, obviously you know more oades
for that. That being said, is that a bad thing?
(19:46):
Not getting anything done? Sometimes the government you can do
more harm when they actually do things that quite frankly
hurt individuals, whether it's over regulation or over taxation. I
mean Kamala Harris is looking to tax on it unrealized gains.
That means if you are in New Zealand, you buy
a house in the Wayerapa for five hundred thousand, and
(20:08):
because the economy is coming back and everything's going well,
it's now worth a million. Well, you're going to be
paying taxes on that million, not the five hundred thousand.
We have it right now that if you sell the house,
that's when you pay your capital gains, but not not
until then come out almost change it. So every business,
every house, everybody would would be paying these these unrealized taxes.
(20:28):
You don't know if things are going to go down,
you don't know if they're going to do sideways. That's
that's outrageous. So people are paying attention to the far far,
far left economic policies for lack of international and foreign experience.
You just see how she responds to a simple Brett
Bear interview, and you know, I meagine her going up
in g and conjuncts like what never never going to happen.
(20:54):
That's what people are saying.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
The britbau Folks interview was was was quite something. I
have to say, although I you know, what, what do
you think I've heard debate with Donald Trump? I would
have I would have called that for her. I thought
she probably performed better than he did that night. And
then he hasn't, he hasn't put himself up to debate
her again.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, heard her expectations were very low and did
she Yeah, yeah, she did, but did she?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Once again, I think it was just an expectation game. No,
I thought she probably just in general.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I thought it was basically a draw, right, I didn't
think it was. President Trump says, and I love debating,
and I offered to go down there and help. And
you know, I don't think it was his best certainly,
but uh, you know, people know where he's stand on
the stands.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, are you do you still keep in touch with
Donald Trump?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I keep in touch with with a lot of his team.
Obviously he's busy doing what he does, but yeah, I
speak to a lot of the people.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sure would you like would you like a role in
a future administration?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That's totally up to him, you know what his needs
will be.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Fuir enough, Hey, Scott, that's probably all we've all we've
got time for. So so thank you very much for
joining us. Really appreciate it, and thanks for sharing your
insights into the race and into the race of us.
We hope to see you back down here soon.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to get down there. And my
bandmates Bruce and Meghan said call out in lower height,
and all my other mates who I enjoyed doing triathlons,
with and coaching basketball and yeah, so we're going to
get back there. Just looking at the flight schedules, so
trying to get that back.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Hey, thank you so much for spinning, spinning your afternoon
with us, Scott. I really appreciate it. That was on
the tiles for another week. That was Scott Brown. I'm
heading to the United States next week for the US
presidential election campaigns. I'll be on the ground near bringing
you on the tiles from a different hemisphere, which would
(22:52):
be very exciting. So thanks to the U. S. State Department
for for give me grant to cover that and we'll
will we will talk to you next week from the
United States. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
H
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