December 12, 2024 • 37 mins
For the final Local Edition of 2024, Georgina is joined by Herald senior writer Simon Wilson and former Mayor and Infrastructure New Zealand chief executive Nick Leggett to wrap the highs and lows of local politics. They discuss:
- The issues facing Tory Whanau and Wellington Council
- How Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown bounced back from a rough 2023
- What central Government wants from councils
- Rising rates and costs
- Which mayors from small towns performed the best - and who needs improvement?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Helder and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast.
I'm your host, Georgina Campbell and this is our last
local edition episode for twenty twenty four. This year has
seen new agreements reached between Auckland Council and central government
over the direction of the city, while Wellington City Council's
(00:30):
issues ended up in a Crown observer being appointed to
get things back on track. Democracy returned to Todonga this year,
four years after its council was replaced by a commission.
While down in the Cargo, their mayor was censured twice
over public comments and behavior. So amidst these highs and lows,
(00:52):
which councils performed the best, which ones struggled, which one's
surprised and what's on the card for next year's local
body elections. To discuss this, I'm joined by New Zealand
Herald Senior writer Simon Wilson and former Pottidoa Mayor and
Chief Executive of Infrastructure New Zealand Nick Leggett. Kyoto to
(01:14):
you both, and thanks so much for joining us. We're
going to start close to my home Wellington. The failure
of the city council to agree on selling shares in
Wellington Airport resulted in its long term pan being re litigated,
and local government is simmy and Brown stepping in and
appointing a Crown Observer Simon, how extreme do you think
(01:39):
that issues are that the council was facing and was
the government justified in intervening?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Wellington has a really serious problem. It has a very
high rates take from citizens and a whole lot more
demands on that money than they know how to meet.
And they probably have that problem as acutely as anyone,
or if not more acutely than anyone else in the country.
(02:07):
So it's a really serious problem because there everybody knows
major problems underground of the water in particular, there are
big proposals for rejuvenating renovating the central city which are
highly controversial, and they have a mayor who has not
always managed to inspire confidence by saying the right thing
(02:30):
at the right time in terms of public opinion.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And we actually had Tory Fano on this podcast just
a few days before the Crown Observer chat sort of
really rapped up if anybody wants to go back and
have a listen to that, and she really responded at
that time with fighting talk. Yeah, Nick, you're a former mayor.
How do you think she's performed over the last year
(02:54):
and what do you think about this Crown observer situation.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think that the crowns as a legitimate step for
the government to take in any council. I mean, it
obviously went further in total, and they're coming as you pointed.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Out out the end of that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I think in Wellington's case, what I think the government
wanted to see is more focused from the council and
my sense is that probably is what will result from
the Crown Observer's appointment.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I mean Tory Farno has had.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
A challenging year in the sense that things that might
you might not think a traditionally would.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Be a green mayor's agenda, like the.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Airport share sale, the so called corporate welfare on reading
cinema deal. Those are things that she has championed as
agreemor and obviously there's been a majority around council against
those as it turns out, but she's hung on to
(03:59):
the Golden mind, which is important.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
For her and her agenda.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And I would just cautioned at the sort of you
know that there's mass dysfunction at Wellington City because actually
they've cobbled together a majority that a different collection of
people at different times. And I think that the issues
in Wellington go a lot deeper. And I want to
give you an example of this. At the last sense
of the census this year, Wellington's population dropped by I
(04:26):
think fifty or one hundred people. It was the only
council in the country other than the Chathams, which I
think can be forgiven because they are such a small
population that whose population actually shrank now shrunk. Now, that
to me is quite a big warning. But it is
a long term cycle. It's not one year, two year,
three year, six year issue. And I think that Wellington's
(04:50):
apparent decline is about a whole lot of other things,
and the council would have to be seen at the
center of that. But I do think that wellingtone means
are going to have to come to grips with the
things that are really important and the real priorities for
their finances and what they're going to spend their money
on in the years to come, because you can't have everything,
(05:11):
particularly in this climate.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Virginia, if I could. I think that's one other thing
to say about Tory neck is quite right. In my view.
Wellington looks like it's in more of a mess, and
perhaps is in terms of the council being able to function.
They clearly can pass resolutions, they clearly can come to
agreement on things, and they're moving forward. The problem for
(05:33):
Tory fun Out has been that even though she was
symptomized by even though she was in favor of selling
the airport shares, when the decision was made to reverse
that proposal and keep the shares, somehow she kind of
got blamed for that for you know, caught up in that. Look,
the council can't function properly wasn't her fault, and she
(05:57):
i think managed to rescue and put a new proposal
on the table pretty well. I mean she fronted up
in the end, and the new plan they had for
a long term a ten year budget now is a
bigger tougher thing they had to do than pretty much
any other council in the country, and yet she led
that process. So they are functioning.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
She has been blamed for essentially a small group of
counselors changing the.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Right to get it.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Let's move on to Auckland.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Auckland Council and the Government have made some agreements around transport,
notably reforming Auckland Transport and returning a lot of the
power back to the council. Simon, what do you think
about this move to sort out the city's transport issues.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I don't really read it as a move to restore
a lot of power to Talkland Council. There is a
new Transport committee that's going to be seen up which
will be equally representing council and the Government, and Council
is going to have policy making functions instead of Auckland Transport,
which is a council control organization. But that's statutory arms
(07:13):
length from council, So in that sense it looks like
council gets more power, but the council doesn't get any
more money. The Transport Ministers in the en bround has
made it very clear that he has no intention of
devolving any of the funding for Auckland, for transport in
Auckland to the council beyond what already happens. And at
(07:35):
the same time he has also established through his Government
policy statement on transport, through the budget and through various
other moves, a whole very prescriptive framework that Auckland Council
and Auckland Transport will have to now work within all
the real power It lies in willing to the fact
(07:58):
that Auckland Transport will be weaker doesn't mean or can
Council's going to be stronger. It actually means Wellington will
be stronger.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, And do you think that transferring I guess more
of the power then to Wellington is a good idea?
Speaker 6 (08:14):
What do you think of the move?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well? The best example of how that works is probably
in the new speed rule. Organ Transport went through a
very extensive process with consultation around lowering speed limits on
a range of roads in the region. The result of
that process was there was majority support for it, they
(08:36):
introduced it. The roads where speed limits were lowered have
had lower rates of deaths and serious injuries than the
other roads. This is not a COVID phenomenon because that
comparison between those roads and the other roads done at
the same time. And yet the new speed rule that's
(08:57):
been put through cabinet means that all those last speed
limits have to be reversed and the regulations that prescribe
how a local body might want to reintroduce biller speed
and it's so prescripted so difficult that effectively it's not
going to happen. So that's a good example of how
(09:19):
local desires, local intent has been taken away, and Transport
Minister Brown has always argued that the council or the
Transport isn't listening to local people, but there's no evidence
for that on the speed issue. There are company people
who want to be able to drive fast, and that's
certainly true. It doesn't follow that anywhere you have the majority.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I'm key to us about.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Can I just jump in there, yes, George.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I mean what has been restored in Auckland with Auckland
Transport remaining as a delivery agency is that Auckland now
has the same functions and the same regional and transport
planning structure as every other region in the country.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
So it is a bit of an equalization.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
But on that last point that Simon made, I mean
an Auckland Council survey showed that only twenty nine percent
of Auckland is faired with Auckland Transport listens and responds
to their needs. So granted, local decision making on local
issues good, but I think that the decision taps into
some sort of public sentiment, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
At some level, it does in that sense. And one
of the difficulties with transport and transport planning is that,
you know, everybody gets upset about road cones or some
instruction on the road, or this footpath hasn't been fixed,
or the bust.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And everybody's a transport engineer.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Everybody's a transport engineer and you and the solutions to
lots of them are those things are contradictory. And a
good example of that is some people think I would
catch a bus. They say if the bus didn't take
so long. The way in which you make the bus
have a quicker trip is to remove car parks on
arterial roads so the buses don't get down up. But
other people say, do not remove those car parks. There
(11:06):
is no meeting in the middle. You just have to
go with one or the other. And it's controversial, so
you're kind of making enemies whatever you're doing. It's very
hard for many council things around the country. Twenty nine
percent support might not be that bad, even it's a
real problem for local bodies that there is a real
(11:29):
sense that they're not doing well enough by us, and
they all, all of them face it and it's a
big mountain to climb.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Now I'm key to talk about Wayne Brown. Nick.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
After the Auckland floods, it sort of felt like Wayne
Brown's political career could be short lived. But it seems
like he's bounced back over the last year. And personally,
one of my favorite things that he has done are
these social media is that he has made, and I
(12:02):
just find them so engaging and I kind of enjoy
that he takes the piss out of Wellington a little bit,
like he has this national nap with all the rates
increases around the country and kind of points to Auckland's
good record and then points to Wellington and says, like,
let's face it, it could be worse. But Nick, what
do you think about his performance this year?
Speaker 6 (12:26):
How would you rate it?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I think unquestionably he has he's improved. And I mean
when I talk around Auckland, nobody's nobody's mentioning a sort
of a significant candidate against him, which is probably know
less than a year out for the election, of good
indication of where things sit. And I think, you know,
you hear even people some people say, oh God, have
(12:50):
you heard Wayne Brown? And then in the next breath say,
but he did make a lot of sense, And I
actually think that's I think, you know, there's there's good
an bad with everybody. Right with Wayne Brown, it's on
the surface. The question will be what can he land
and can he give Auckland his confidence for another three years?
I mean the transport thing he's being dicisive of that
(13:13):
he has attempted on others. You know, he's got a
lower rate increase as you point out the many other
councils of the country.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
How he's achieved that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
It brings into question a sort of a longer term
asset approach. But nonetheless, the mood in Auckland to me,
and I'm here pretty regularly and I'm not, but I'm
not sort of tapped in, tapped in, you know, seems
to be. And I think he's even made up with
that guy Simon Wilson to some extent, isn't it. I mean,
that's pretty good. That's a pretty good example that things
(13:44):
are sort of on the straight and narrow someone.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, the relationship between us is kind of weird. I mean,
I was at an event last week where Waynes down
the other end of the room and several people came
over to me and said, you know, Wayne's down there
abusing you, and I don't take it personally because that's
just what he does with people. And I was in
(14:07):
his sightline or something, you know. And you could argue
that's an incredibly frustrating thing for a man to do,
and the stories of people who get pissed off with
their interaction to him at Legion, but he has managed
to create a sense that the city is moving forward.
That is impressive how he's done that. Nick is absolutely right.
(14:29):
There is very little talk of serious opponents to him,
although there are some waiting in the wings, but my
sense of that is that actually they're not going to
challenge this time if he stands again, which is likely.
He's managed to inspire confidence that the city is in
reasonable hands. It's an achievement.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Interesting and look, I want to talk more about who
might be standing in next year's local body elections later
on an episode, but before we get to that, Prime
Minister Christopher Luxen made some pretty stinging comments at this
year's Local Government New Zealand Conference, essentially telling councils to
(15:13):
tighten their own bouts before asking the government for more
money used Wellington City Council's Convention Center Tarkena essentially as
an example of wasteful spending. And you know this comes
off the back of the announcement for city deals, but
also councils wanting a whole list of things, including a
share of revenue. Nick, what did you make of the
(15:37):
Prime Minister's comments at that conference, because as I understand it,
it didn't go down that well with a lot of
people in the room.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
No, it didn't go down well with a lot of
people in the room, but he wasn't speaking to the room.
He was reaching out beyond and I think framing the
issue up before the government can be framed on anything
to do with local I thought it was good politics.
I actually also thought it was a fair point. But
I also think there's an exchange of views that have
(16:09):
to happen. So I think, you know, he was right
local government do have to look at their costs. I
say that as a as a former man. Now I'm
not an economical I find it a fiscally dry person, I
do believe, and you've got to watch the pennies. But
I'm sort of somewhere in the middle and I have
(16:29):
to say local government doesn't ever really think about its cost.
It just adds them unless you get a sort of
a way and Brown or someone like that that is
prepared to go in with that agenda and have strong
support and know how to turn the levers. So I
thought that was a fair point. But from where I stand,
I reckon that local government has got a funding model
(16:51):
that just isn't going to be sustainable into much beyond
the medium term, and so regional deals could be a
really good way of local and central government getting their
relationship on track, sharing some goals, working together to deliver jobs,
infrastructure growth, and a shared view of where a region
(17:18):
needs to go and what might be the competitive advantages
of distinct parts of New Zealand. I think there's great
opportunity there. But I do think ultimately we are going
to have to confront we've either got a power local
governmentor and accept that that's going to cost additional tax dollars,
(17:38):
or reduce it to the parish council and centralize most things,
or at least regionalize most things and sort of watch
it with her. And because I just don't think status
quo is going to be an option you look at
rate increases, you look at the rates that people are
paying on their homes. Now, for a working family, that's expensive,
(17:59):
but for people who are retired, it's their only asset.
They don't have a lot of money in the bank.
They're living off government super That doesn't seem to be
a sustainable position. So we do have to we have
to confront this. You know, the government might be able
to delay it a while, but I do think that
it's an and and situation here, it's not, you know,
(18:20):
and the two sides have got to come together.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Simon Brown has formally kind of rejected the Future for
Local Government Review, which had all sorts of recommendations. I've
also covered this in a previous episode of People.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Want to Listen.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I'm just trying to understand. I mean, what does the
government really want from local government? Like, can you possibly
answer that question?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I would like to say, I agree with everything that
just said. I think that that's actually absolutely spot on.
Now we are in the end days for the way
in which local government's organized right behind and particularly how
it's funded. What does the government want for local government? Well,
Christopher Luxana was at that Local Government conference and they
make a big thing of talking about how localism is vital.
(19:07):
They want decision making authority to evolve to the local level.
But at the same time they are being, as I
said before, very prescriptive about what local government should be doing.
So they're not saying, okay, with your money, you do
the things you want to do, and you have some
proper democratic processes in place to make sure that you've
(19:30):
got public support for them. They're not saying that, they're saying,
we don't believe you should be doing X, Y and z,
so until you are doing not until you are not
doing the X Y and Z, now we're not going
to help you. We're not going to support you maybe seriously,
or provide government sides of the money. And the X
Y and Z happened to be cultural things, cyc away
(19:54):
speed bumps, things like that. Now it is extraordinary that
the government believes that it's okay for them to be
deciding on those sorts of things which really are obviously
really local things for locals to decide that it's a
keener example, isn't The conference center in Wellington is a
good example of in retrospect and Wantington need to build
(20:16):
a conference center, but of course it didn't come out
of the work brigade. A conference center was the orthodox
thinking of all cities ten fifteen years ago. What we
need to survive in a business world became out of that.
And you can look back now and say, actually, they
have better things to spend their money on, and water
in particular. But back in the day it was politicians
(20:39):
aligned to the national government that build that.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I think people I have made this point before,
People need to remember that, you know, Wellington's water woes
while that it is because of historical underinvestment. We weren't
talking about water pipes until actually quite recently, until they
started erupting in the street. But when the convention center
(21:03):
was signed off, we were not talking about under investment
in water and that was when just unless it was
the mayor, I think so as worth kind of pointing
that out, just you know, in fairness to them.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
On maldi wards.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
A lot of councils have voted to hold referendums next
year on this issue, obviously after the government decided that
that was going to bring back the referendum requirement. What
do you think of this and what do you think
the future of some of these milding wards which have
(21:39):
been established will be because obviously previously we didn't have
very many of them because of this requirement. But now
that we've had them, you know, do you think that
there's sort of a better chance that some of them
will stay in place? A nick maybe can start with you.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Look, I.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Hope that communities vote use the democratic process that's been
put in front of them and vote to keep Marty Wards.
I think Marty representation in local government has been poor.
It's improved in the last few years, which is a
really good thing. And I would say, you know, there
is some confusion at times, in my view, between relationship
(22:22):
between a council and EWI Manifenua, and then there's an
issue of democratically elected Marti representation and sometimes the two
get conflated. Irrespective whether a Marty Wards or not, councils
need to have a hand in glove relationship with Mani Fenua,
like I think, you know, I obviously living put it
or we have a Marty Ward. I think a third
(22:44):
of our council is Marty. It hasn't always been like that,
but we've had From my memory, I don't think there
has been a time in the city's history, not for
at least five decades where there hasn't been.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
A Marty elected to the council.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I know that not all parts of New Zealander like that,
but those are the that should be thinking more closely
about ensure enshrining some form of Marti representation. So it's
going to be I don't have a sense like I mean,
you know, it feels very polarized at the moment out
there with the Treaty principles, Bell and what have you.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I actually think that some.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Communities could surprise us and keep Marty Wards because, like,
if you actually look at the way they've functioned, and
you know what they've done, and they brought a different
voice to councils, where is the problem? That would be
my question. But I also accept that people feel they
(23:35):
want to vote on them and they're entitled to that
as well, and that's what will happen.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think. I think that's really right about that Marti
Wards from what I can see, a really good example
of the way in which this country has been evolving
ways to have representation and partnerships and all of those things.
And as Nick says, where is the problem with that now?
(24:00):
Become a trigger point, which something that could create a problem.
I think next right, some councils are probably going to
find that, you know, people support not awards, but fewer them.
I might personally hope that many people might and it's
going to set some districts and cities back from the
(24:22):
progress that they've made, which is great shame.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
back shortly with more on the Tiles. Welcome back to
On the Tiles. Local addition, we're going to look across
(24:47):
the country now, which mayors or councils would you rate
is having performed quite well this year?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Simon, Well, I've got I think it's quite a long list.
I've been impressed with Sam brought him at Selwyn, who
is the chair of Local Government New Zealand. I think
he does a good job for local government, but I
think he's doing a good job for Selwyn as well.
Now he's young and clear about what he thinks and
what he wants, and he clearly has an ability to
(25:17):
connect with people. Camil Berry and Lara Hutt the same,
Rehet Stalts and Ty Rafferty Alex Walker in Central Hooks Bay,
Tanya tapsl and wrote a rua again impressive and one
of the things about several of those people is that
they are young. My standout this year is KNOCKL Tipani,
who was the mayor of the Far North. He had
(25:39):
just a couple of weeks ago he got two hundred
of the community leaders into a hall in ketty Keerry
and he gave them a state of the district speech
which he said was the first time anything like anything
done in the country. And he talked about the difficulties
of having only seventy thousand people, having only twenty eight
thousand ratepayers in an enormous area and really significant province,
(26:03):
and water is one of their big issues. Three waters
was going to help them enormously now because Auckland was
going to be They're going to be wrapped up with
Auckland and the new water regime make it harder for them,
So there are real issues there. But he said these
are our issues, these are what we're doing. This is
what we're doing, and he laid it all out with
(26:24):
an inspirational speech and I thought, you know this, this
young guy who has said I'm going to work from
the business leaders with the entrepreneurs right across the political spectrum.
He lives in Kaiko, and thing about the Far North
is that it's a desperately poor area except for ketty Keny,
which is extraordinary not poor. So he's got that real dichotomy,
(26:45):
if you like. To balance. Political power has tended to
be in Kedy Kenry his predecessors John Carter from the
National Party and Wayne Brown. But Macrotipania is doing a
great job as a very young leader in the Far North.
And I think gat inspiration.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
What about you, Nack? Who are you allers?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I've had a few people on that list. Actually, I'd
add to that. I think Nick Smith is as energetic
as ever in Nelson. What I liked, I like what
I hear from Nick. I mean, I've got some links
to Nelson, so I hear good things from friends and family.
But actually he came out on a four year term
(27:30):
this year and said local government needed a four year term,
and actually that is something we need to discuss, not
just for local government but for central government. But you know,
there is this thing around councils or governments get elected
and they you know, they've really got a year or
two years to sort of drive and then the either
side of that an election year and it does really
(27:52):
bring things to a holt. I think it's something we need.
It's a bit, you know, we need a mature discussion
around a longer term. It's not about letting politicians get
away with stuff unbridled. It is about politicians having the
time on behalf of the community to implement the things
that they elected on and to get out of the
sort of election cycle faster. Sorry, that's just a bit
(28:15):
of a rant for me. I'm always impressed with Grant
Smith in Palmerston North and I think they're lining up
pretty strongly there. My own local mayor, Anita Baker, says
it like it is and put her to put he
has always had high rates. She is confronting the challenge
(28:39):
with high rate increases by talking to people and being
very frank and you know, mahe Drysdale as well in
Toto on a difficult chance, you know, restoring a difficult sorry,
a difficult issue, didn't restoring democracy. But I think from
what I've met him a couple of times and seen
him speak, I've been impressed is very level headed.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And isn't he.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
On principle you know, which I think is you know,
it will be important for Toling. It's a growth city
and they've they've got they've got some real challenges.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Well, I'm really plugging the podcast in this episode, but
I did speak to Nick Smiths for the last Local
Edition episode and it was a real pleasure.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
So if anybody hasn't listened to that, you should.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Enthusiast doesn't he next?
Speaker 6 (29:25):
He is?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And there are a lot of councils that don't often
make the headlines because they're just sort of getting on
with things.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Are there any sort of quiet.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Achievers if you like that you think deserve a shout out?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Simon, I think a couple Alex Walker I mentioned before
in Central Hawks Bay, she is she gets on with
the business. They've got a whole range again water, but
other issues there to do with climate resilience and all
of the things have happened would weather in Hawks Bay. Yeah,
but I think she's pretty impressive at getting people to
(30:04):
work well together. And Paula Southgate, who's the mayor of Hamilton,
quite achiever. Hamilton is you know, everybody forever is always
talked about Hamilton as one of those cities you make
fun of. But Hamilton's not gonna make fun of the city.
It's a city with an awful lot of progress happening,
and a lot of that is due to paul.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Mac It's very scary for Simon that I agree with him.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I would have seen both Alex and Paula.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I've seen, you know, I mean Alex Walker and Centta
Hawk's Bay as the other two me is. And I
would say Sandra Hazlehurst, who's the mayor of Hastings as
well as it does very well without necessarily always having
to draw attention to her work. But Paula's Southgate. You know,
Hamilton has issues. It has issues with water, it has
(30:55):
issues with you know, how are we going to grow,
Where are we going to grow? Who's going to pay
for that? So you know that regional deal opportunity for
Hamilton and the White Cuttle is a sure thing and
not Paula Southgate to me, always strikes me as someone
who is looking for solutions and really grasping those those
tough issues. And you know, I think we know Wellington
(31:17):
has water challenges, you know, I think Hamilton does as well,
and Paula Southgate is you know, I think actively looking
at those issues and to see how better models could
be applied, so I'd go I'd go along with that.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Oh you too, I agree, Christmas?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
What about the Needs Improvement Award? Like ken you, is
there a specific example of a council that you know
really hasn't done so well, has been a bit controversial,
has made a poor decision.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Neck will start with you this time.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I sort of.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
I think we've been asked about me as I mean,
I think not.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
B Clarke and and vcar. You know, I think if
the Cargo's actually made some great leaps in the last
few years with the redevelopment of its city center and
it's really plugging itself as as a destination for tourism,
which you know, if you think about Stuart Islands and
the Catlands and Riveton and Fjordland, it's it's it's well placed.
But I do think the mayor has let the side
(32:20):
down this year. He's been censured twice. I think, as
you mentioned at the start, that does does you know
it does have it rubs off, doesn't it? In terms
of council's perception, I think I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Look.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I just think local government is really challenging. There isn't
a council that I would want to throw shade on
particularly because I don't think there.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Have been any.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Sort of things that stand out. I'd really like to
see the need in coming up with some alternatives around,
you know, to take to the government and say right,
here's here's how we can make here's how we can
do the hospital rather than just the protest. You can
do the protest thing, that's fine and you know, wear
the T shirts, but where's the actual what are you
(33:05):
bringing to the table.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And this is where I think local government.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
It's what I like about those regional deals, forcing local
government to stand up and be a partner to central government.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
I think that that is that's.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
What we should be looking for and I would have
liked to have seen that from Dunedin a little bit,
and maybe next year they will do that.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
So let's see, Simon, what about you it needs improvements?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Well, I agree with that. I had Jules Radi, the
Dunedin mayor, on my list of someone who's seems to
be a bit more blustered than actually efficiently moving forward.
Vince in fun array, I think it's a bit the
same now. But my I think my big disappointment of
the year is Craig Jepson, who was the mayor of
(33:50):
Kuiper Copper is a region that has a real kind
of classic New Zealand mix of It's a big, mighty population.
There's a big predominantly parky, wealthy farming population as well.
It's a place where you would want and expect there
(34:12):
to be a real meeting of minds and it has
the chance to be a model of how you move
forward as in provincial New Zealand, and it was doing that.
Craig Jetson has managed to infuriate and alienate the Malbi
ward member there and a whole lot of other people
(34:34):
as well, and he's enter to do it for the
fun of it. He takes so little effort to think
through how am I going to get people working together
and feeling good about being a group on the council.
But he seems to not be thinking like that at all,
and I think that's a great shame.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And look just quickly, because we are running out of
time on this zoom call local body elections, could you
just quickly summarize, you know, who you think might be
most at risk of being voted out some any big
names that you've heard who might be vying for the
Auckland or Wellington merialites snick.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Well, it's crickets from me.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
In terms of both Auckland and Wellington merialties, I just
haven't heard. When I say haven't heard, it's not that
I'm not listening, but there don't appear to be candidates.
But I would say this, I actually am the view,
and I'm not saying this to avoid the question. I've
felt this for a long time since the annual plan,
the long term plans came out earlier in the year.
I think most incumbents are vulnerable those with large rate increases.
(35:43):
It is, It's probably been explained in some places better
than others. But I think ultimately, you know, when we
are still in an economic decline, people are feeling and
rates is something that they can actually do something about
by vote, and they can actually seek to give somebody
(36:04):
a whack with their vote. And so I think those
councils that have had big rate increases, I think incumbents,
whether they elect councils or mayor's probably will all be
in and we'll.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Have some degree of vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
And yeah, whether that's appropriate or it's you know, it's
a shame, we'll find out, but it does give those people,
those incumbents, a few months to sort of work out
what they're going to say.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I suspect many will stand.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Down just because it's a tough Local government is so
hard at the moment, and there's a lot more sort
of nastiness in communities as well. Now that's been there
for a while, but we are, you know, we're under
the pump as a nation, and that unfortunately pops out
in our behavior as well.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think Auckland, because it has low rates, Wayne Brown
is looking pretty secure. It's interesting that there are three
big National party names waiting in the wings, Simon Bridges,
death to Simpson, the Debts Mayor, and Paula Bennett, but
none of them appears to be really making a run
for it. On the left, there are hoping that one
of them will, so they'll split the boat with Brown
and Eddin. But the Left has no candidate. So it
(37:11):
looks very strongly like Wayne Brown. Now we'll have a
second term if he wants it. He says he hasn't decided,
but he's behaving as if he has.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Very succinct Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
That's it for this episode of On the Tiles. The
final episode of Local Edition for twenty twenty four. You
can read more about local politics, news and opinions at
ziherld dot co dot nzd Ethan Sells is our producer
and Richard Martin is our sound engineer. I'm Georgina Campbell.
(37:45):
Tune in next week for Thomas's Year in review, and
I'll catch you again next year for more Local Edition
Helder and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast.
I'm your host, Georgina Campbell and this is our last
local edition episode for twenty twenty four. This year has
seen new agreements reached between Auckland Council and central government
over the direction of the city, while Wellington City Council's
(00:30):
issues ended up in a Crown observer being appointed to
get things back on track. Democracy returned to Todonga this year,
four years after its council was replaced by a commission.
While down in the Cargo, their mayor was censured twice
over public comments and behavior. So amidst these highs and lows,
(00:52):
which councils performed the best, which ones struggled, which one's
surprised and what's on the card for next year's local
body elections. To discuss this, I'm joined by New Zealand
Herald Senior writer Simon Wilson and former Pottidoa Mayor and
Chief Executive of Infrastructure New Zealand Nick Leggett. Kyoto to
(01:14):
you both, and thanks so much for joining us. We're
going to start close to my home Wellington. The failure
of the city council to agree on selling shares in
Wellington Airport resulted in its long term pan being re litigated,
and local government is simmy and Brown stepping in and
appointing a Crown Observer Simon, how extreme do you think
(01:39):
that issues are that the council was facing and was
the government justified in intervening?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Wellington has a really serious problem. It has a very
high rates take from citizens and a whole lot more
demands on that money than they know how to meet.
And they probably have that problem as acutely as anyone,
or if not more acutely than anyone else in the country.
(02:07):
So it's a really serious problem because there everybody knows
major problems underground of the water in particular, there are
big proposals for rejuvenating renovating the central city which are
highly controversial, and they have a mayor who has not
always managed to inspire confidence by saying the right thing
(02:30):
at the right time in terms of public opinion.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And we actually had Tory Fano on this podcast just
a few days before the Crown Observer chat sort of
really rapped up if anybody wants to go back and
have a listen to that, and she really responded at
that time with fighting talk. Yeah, Nick, you're a former mayor.
How do you think she's performed over the last year
(02:54):
and what do you think about this Crown observer situation.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think that the crowns as a legitimate step for
the government to take in any council. I mean, it
obviously went further in total, and they're coming as you pointed.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Out out the end of that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I think in Wellington's case, what I think the government
wanted to see is more focused from the council and
my sense is that probably is what will result from
the Crown Observer's appointment.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I mean Tory Farno has had.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
A challenging year in the sense that things that might
you might not think a traditionally would.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Be a green mayor's agenda, like the.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Airport share sale, the so called corporate welfare on reading
cinema deal. Those are things that she has championed as
agreemor and obviously there's been a majority around council against
those as it turns out, but she's hung on to
(03:59):
the Golden mind, which is important.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
For her and her agenda.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And I would just cautioned at the sort of you
know that there's mass dysfunction at Wellington City because actually
they've cobbled together a majority that a different collection of
people at different times. And I think that the issues
in Wellington go a lot deeper. And I want to
give you an example of this. At the last sense
of the census this year, Wellington's population dropped by I
(04:26):
think fifty or one hundred people. It was the only
council in the country other than the Chathams, which I
think can be forgiven because they are such a small
population that whose population actually shrank now shrunk. Now, that
to me is quite a big warning. But it is
a long term cycle. It's not one year, two year,
three year, six year issue. And I think that Wellington's
(04:50):
apparent decline is about a whole lot of other things,
and the council would have to be seen at the
center of that. But I do think that wellingtone means
are going to have to come to grips with the
things that are really important and the real priorities for
their finances and what they're going to spend their money
on in the years to come, because you can't have everything,
(05:11):
particularly in this climate.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Virginia, if I could. I think that's one other thing
to say about Tory neck is quite right. In my view.
Wellington looks like it's in more of a mess, and
perhaps is in terms of the council being able to function.
They clearly can pass resolutions, they clearly can come to
agreement on things, and they're moving forward. The problem for
(05:33):
Tory fun Out has been that even though she was
symptomized by even though she was in favor of selling
the airport shares, when the decision was made to reverse
that proposal and keep the shares, somehow she kind of
got blamed for that for you know, caught up in that. Look,
the council can't function properly wasn't her fault, and she
(05:57):
i think managed to rescue and put a new proposal
on the table pretty well. I mean she fronted up
in the end, and the new plan they had for
a long term a ten year budget now is a
bigger tougher thing they had to do than pretty much
any other council in the country, and yet she led
that process. So they are functioning.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
She has been blamed for essentially a small group of
counselors changing the.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Right to get it.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Let's move on to Auckland.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Auckland Council and the Government have made some agreements around transport,
notably reforming Auckland Transport and returning a lot of the
power back to the council. Simon, what do you think
about this move to sort out the city's transport issues.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I don't really read it as a move to restore
a lot of power to Talkland Council. There is a
new Transport committee that's going to be seen up which
will be equally representing council and the Government, and Council
is going to have policy making functions instead of Auckland Transport,
which is a council control organization. But that's statutory arms
(07:13):
length from council, So in that sense it looks like
council gets more power, but the council doesn't get any
more money. The Transport Ministers in the en bround has
made it very clear that he has no intention of
devolving any of the funding for Auckland, for transport in
Auckland to the council beyond what already happens. And at
(07:35):
the same time he has also established through his Government
policy statement on transport, through the budget and through various
other moves, a whole very prescriptive framework that Auckland Council
and Auckland Transport will have to now work within all
the real power It lies in willing to the fact
(07:58):
that Auckland Transport will be weaker doesn't mean or can
Council's going to be stronger. It actually means Wellington will
be stronger.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, And do you think that transferring I guess more
of the power then to Wellington is a good idea?
Speaker 6 (08:14):
What do you think of the move?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well? The best example of how that works is probably
in the new speed rule. Organ Transport went through a
very extensive process with consultation around lowering speed limits on
a range of roads in the region. The result of
that process was there was majority support for it, they
(08:36):
introduced it. The roads where speed limits were lowered have
had lower rates of deaths and serious injuries than the
other roads. This is not a COVID phenomenon because that
comparison between those roads and the other roads done at
the same time. And yet the new speed rule that's
(08:57):
been put through cabinet means that all those last speed
limits have to be reversed and the regulations that prescribe
how a local body might want to reintroduce biller speed
and it's so prescripted so difficult that effectively it's not
going to happen. So that's a good example of how
(09:19):
local desires, local intent has been taken away, and Transport
Minister Brown has always argued that the council or the
Transport isn't listening to local people, but there's no evidence
for that on the speed issue. There are company people
who want to be able to drive fast, and that's
certainly true. It doesn't follow that anywhere you have the majority.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I'm key to us about.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Can I just jump in there, yes, George.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I mean what has been restored in Auckland with Auckland
Transport remaining as a delivery agency is that Auckland now
has the same functions and the same regional and transport
planning structure as every other region in the country.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
So it is a bit of an equalization.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
But on that last point that Simon made, I mean
an Auckland Council survey showed that only twenty nine percent
of Auckland is faired with Auckland Transport listens and responds
to their needs. So granted, local decision making on local
issues good, but I think that the decision taps into
some sort of public sentiment, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
At some level, it does in that sense. And one
of the difficulties with transport and transport planning is that,
you know, everybody gets upset about road cones or some
instruction on the road, or this footpath hasn't been fixed,
or the bust.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And everybody's a transport engineer.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Everybody's a transport engineer and you and the solutions to
lots of them are those things are contradictory. And a
good example of that is some people think I would
catch a bus. They say if the bus didn't take
so long. The way in which you make the bus
have a quicker trip is to remove car parks on
arterial roads so the buses don't get down up. But
other people say, do not remove those car parks. There
(11:06):
is no meeting in the middle. You just have to
go with one or the other. And it's controversial, so
you're kind of making enemies whatever you're doing. It's very
hard for many council things around the country. Twenty nine
percent support might not be that bad, even it's a
real problem for local bodies that there is a real
(11:29):
sense that they're not doing well enough by us, and
they all, all of them face it and it's a
big mountain to climb.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Now I'm key to talk about Wayne Brown. Nick.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
After the Auckland floods, it sort of felt like Wayne
Brown's political career could be short lived. But it seems
like he's bounced back over the last year. And personally,
one of my favorite things that he has done are
these social media is that he has made, and I
(12:02):
just find them so engaging and I kind of enjoy
that he takes the piss out of Wellington a little bit,
like he has this national nap with all the rates
increases around the country and kind of points to Auckland's
good record and then points to Wellington and says, like,
let's face it, it could be worse. But Nick, what
do you think about his performance this year?
Speaker 6 (12:26):
How would you rate it?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I think unquestionably he has he's improved. And I mean
when I talk around Auckland, nobody's nobody's mentioning a sort
of a significant candidate against him, which is probably know
less than a year out for the election, of good
indication of where things sit. And I think, you know,
you hear even people some people say, oh God, have
(12:50):
you heard Wayne Brown? And then in the next breath say,
but he did make a lot of sense, And I
actually think that's I think, you know, there's there's good
an bad with everybody. Right with Wayne Brown, it's on
the surface. The question will be what can he land
and can he give Auckland his confidence for another three years?
I mean the transport thing he's being dicisive of that
(13:13):
he has attempted on others. You know, he's got a
lower rate increase as you point out the many other
councils of the country.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
How he's achieved that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
It brings into question a sort of a longer term
asset approach. But nonetheless, the mood in Auckland to me,
and I'm here pretty regularly and I'm not, but I'm
not sort of tapped in, tapped in, you know, seems
to be. And I think he's even made up with
that guy Simon Wilson to some extent, isn't it. I mean,
that's pretty good. That's a pretty good example that things
(13:44):
are sort of on the straight and narrow someone.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, the relationship between us is kind of weird. I mean,
I was at an event last week where Waynes down
the other end of the room and several people came
over to me and said, you know, Wayne's down there
abusing you, and I don't take it personally because that's
just what he does with people. And I was in
(14:07):
his sightline or something, you know. And you could argue
that's an incredibly frustrating thing for a man to do,
and the stories of people who get pissed off with
their interaction to him at Legion, but he has managed
to create a sense that the city is moving forward.
That is impressive how he's done that. Nick is absolutely right.
(14:29):
There is very little talk of serious opponents to him,
although there are some waiting in the wings, but my
sense of that is that actually they're not going to
challenge this time if he stands again, which is likely.
He's managed to inspire confidence that the city is in
reasonable hands. It's an achievement.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Interesting and look, I want to talk more about who
might be standing in next year's local body elections later
on an episode, but before we get to that, Prime
Minister Christopher Luxen made some pretty stinging comments at this
year's Local Government New Zealand Conference, essentially telling councils to
(15:13):
tighten their own bouts before asking the government for more
money used Wellington City Council's Convention Center Tarkena essentially as
an example of wasteful spending. And you know this comes
off the back of the announcement for city deals, but
also councils wanting a whole list of things, including a
share of revenue. Nick, what did you make of the
(15:37):
Prime Minister's comments at that conference, because as I understand it,
it didn't go down that well with a lot of
people in the room.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
No, it didn't go down well with a lot of
people in the room, but he wasn't speaking to the room.
He was reaching out beyond and I think framing the
issue up before the government can be framed on anything
to do with local I thought it was good politics.
I actually also thought it was a fair point. But
I also think there's an exchange of views that have
(16:09):
to happen. So I think, you know, he was right
local government do have to look at their costs. I
say that as a as a former man. Now I'm
not an economical I find it a fiscally dry person, I
do believe, and you've got to watch the pennies. But
I'm sort of somewhere in the middle and I have
(16:29):
to say local government doesn't ever really think about its cost.
It just adds them unless you get a sort of
a way and Brown or someone like that that is
prepared to go in with that agenda and have strong
support and know how to turn the levers. So I
thought that was a fair point. But from where I stand,
I reckon that local government has got a funding model
(16:51):
that just isn't going to be sustainable into much beyond
the medium term, and so regional deals could be a
really good way of local and central government getting their
relationship on track, sharing some goals, working together to deliver jobs,
infrastructure growth, and a shared view of where a region
(17:18):
needs to go and what might be the competitive advantages
of distinct parts of New Zealand. I think there's great
opportunity there. But I do think ultimately we are going
to have to confront we've either got a power local
governmentor and accept that that's going to cost additional tax dollars,
(17:38):
or reduce it to the parish council and centralize most things,
or at least regionalize most things and sort of watch
it with her. And because I just don't think status
quo is going to be an option you look at
rate increases, you look at the rates that people are
paying on their homes. Now, for a working family, that's expensive,
(17:59):
but for people who are retired, it's their only asset.
They don't have a lot of money in the bank.
They're living off government super That doesn't seem to be
a sustainable position. So we do have to we have
to confront this. You know, the government might be able
to delay it a while, but I do think that
it's an and and situation here, it's not, you know,
(18:20):
and the two sides have got to come together.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Simon Brown has formally kind of rejected the Future for
Local Government Review, which had all sorts of recommendations. I've
also covered this in a previous episode of People.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Want to Listen.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I'm just trying to understand. I mean, what does the
government really want from local government? Like, can you possibly
answer that question?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I would like to say, I agree with everything that
just said. I think that that's actually absolutely spot on.
Now we are in the end days for the way
in which local government's organized right behind and particularly how
it's funded. What does the government want for local government? Well,
Christopher Luxana was at that Local Government conference and they
make a big thing of talking about how localism is vital.
(19:07):
They want decision making authority to evolve to the local level.
But at the same time they are being, as I
said before, very prescriptive about what local government should be doing.
So they're not saying, okay, with your money, you do
the things you want to do, and you have some
proper democratic processes in place to make sure that you've
(19:30):
got public support for them. They're not saying that, they're saying,
we don't believe you should be doing X, Y and z,
so until you are doing not until you are not
doing the X Y and Z, now we're not going
to help you. We're not going to support you maybe seriously,
or provide government sides of the money. And the X
Y and Z happened to be cultural things, cyc away
(19:54):
speed bumps, things like that. Now it is extraordinary that
the government believes that it's okay for them to be
deciding on those sorts of things which really are obviously
really local things for locals to decide that it's a
keener example, isn't The conference center in Wellington is a
good example of in retrospect and Wantington need to build
(20:16):
a conference center, but of course it didn't come out
of the work brigade. A conference center was the orthodox
thinking of all cities ten fifteen years ago. What we
need to survive in a business world became out of that.
And you can look back now and say, actually, they
have better things to spend their money on, and water
in particular. But back in the day it was politicians
(20:39):
aligned to the national government that build that.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I think people I have made this point before,
People need to remember that, you know, Wellington's water woes
while that it is because of historical underinvestment. We weren't
talking about water pipes until actually quite recently, until they
started erupting in the street. But when the convention center
(21:03):
was signed off, we were not talking about under investment
in water and that was when just unless it was
the mayor, I think so as worth kind of pointing
that out, just you know, in fairness to them.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
On maldi wards.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
A lot of councils have voted to hold referendums next
year on this issue, obviously after the government decided that
that was going to bring back the referendum requirement. What
do you think of this and what do you think
the future of some of these milding wards which have
(21:39):
been established will be because obviously previously we didn't have
very many of them because of this requirement. But now
that we've had them, you know, do you think that
there's sort of a better chance that some of them
will stay in place? A nick maybe can start with you.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Look, I.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Hope that communities vote use the democratic process that's been
put in front of them and vote to keep Marty Wards.
I think Marty representation in local government has been poor.
It's improved in the last few years, which is a
really good thing. And I would say, you know, there
is some confusion at times, in my view, between relationship
(22:22):
between a council and EWI Manifenua, and then there's an
issue of democratically elected Marti representation and sometimes the two
get conflated. Irrespective whether a Marty Wards or not, councils
need to have a hand in glove relationship with Mani Fenua,
like I think, you know, I obviously living put it
or we have a Marty Ward. I think a third
(22:44):
of our council is Marty. It hasn't always been like that,
but we've had From my memory, I don't think there
has been a time in the city's history, not for
at least five decades where there hasn't been.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
A Marty elected to the council.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I know that not all parts of New Zealander like that,
but those are the that should be thinking more closely
about ensure enshrining some form of Marti representation. So it's
going to be I don't have a sense like I mean,
you know, it feels very polarized at the moment out
there with the Treaty principles, Bell and what have you.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I actually think that some.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Communities could surprise us and keep Marty Wards because, like,
if you actually look at the way they've functioned, and
you know what they've done, and they brought a different
voice to councils, where is the problem? That would be
my question. But I also accept that people feel they
(23:35):
want to vote on them and they're entitled to that
as well, and that's what will happen.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think. I think that's really right about that Marti
Wards from what I can see, a really good example
of the way in which this country has been evolving
ways to have representation and partnerships and all of those things.
And as Nick says, where is the problem with that now?
(24:00):
Become a trigger point, which something that could create a problem.
I think next right, some councils are probably going to
find that, you know, people support not awards, but fewer them.
I might personally hope that many people might and it's
going to set some districts and cities back from the
(24:22):
progress that they've made, which is great shame.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
back shortly with more on the Tiles. Welcome back to
On the Tiles. Local addition, we're going to look across
(24:47):
the country now, which mayors or councils would you rate
is having performed quite well this year?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Simon, Well, I've got I think it's quite a long list.
I've been impressed with Sam brought him at Selwyn, who
is the chair of Local Government New Zealand. I think
he does a good job for local government, but I
think he's doing a good job for Selwyn as well.
Now he's young and clear about what he thinks and
what he wants, and he clearly has an ability to
(25:17):
connect with people. Camil Berry and Lara Hutt the same,
Rehet Stalts and Ty Rafferty Alex Walker in Central Hooks Bay,
Tanya tapsl and wrote a rua again impressive and one
of the things about several of those people is that
they are young. My standout this year is KNOCKL Tipani,
who was the mayor of the Far North. He had
(25:39):
just a couple of weeks ago he got two hundred
of the community leaders into a hall in ketty Keerry
and he gave them a state of the district speech
which he said was the first time anything like anything
done in the country. And he talked about the difficulties
of having only seventy thousand people, having only twenty eight
thousand ratepayers in an enormous area and really significant province,
(26:03):
and water is one of their big issues. Three waters
was going to help them enormously now because Auckland was
going to be They're going to be wrapped up with
Auckland and the new water regime make it harder for them,
So there are real issues there. But he said these
are our issues, these are what we're doing. This is
what we're doing, and he laid it all out with
(26:24):
an inspirational speech and I thought, you know this, this
young guy who has said I'm going to work from
the business leaders with the entrepreneurs right across the political spectrum.
He lives in Kaiko, and thing about the Far North
is that it's a desperately poor area except for ketty Keny,
which is extraordinary not poor. So he's got that real dichotomy,
(26:45):
if you like. To balance. Political power has tended to
be in Kedy Kenry his predecessors John Carter from the
National Party and Wayne Brown. But Macrotipania is doing a
great job as a very young leader in the Far North.
And I think gat inspiration.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
What about you, Nack? Who are you allers?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I've had a few people on that list. Actually, I'd
add to that. I think Nick Smith is as energetic
as ever in Nelson. What I liked, I like what
I hear from Nick. I mean, I've got some links
to Nelson, so I hear good things from friends and family.
But actually he came out on a four year term
(27:30):
this year and said local government needed a four year term,
and actually that is something we need to discuss, not
just for local government but for central government. But you know,
there is this thing around councils or governments get elected
and they you know, they've really got a year or
two years to sort of drive and then the either
side of that an election year and it does really
(27:52):
bring things to a holt. I think it's something we need.
It's a bit, you know, we need a mature discussion
around a longer term. It's not about letting politicians get
away with stuff unbridled. It is about politicians having the
time on behalf of the community to implement the things
that they elected on and to get out of the
sort of election cycle faster. Sorry, that's just a bit
(28:15):
of a rant for me. I'm always impressed with Grant
Smith in Palmerston North and I think they're lining up
pretty strongly there. My own local mayor, Anita Baker, says
it like it is and put her to put he
has always had high rates. She is confronting the challenge
(28:39):
with high rate increases by talking to people and being
very frank and you know, mahe Drysdale as well in
Toto on a difficult chance, you know, restoring a difficult sorry,
a difficult issue, didn't restoring democracy. But I think from
what I've met him a couple of times and seen
him speak, I've been impressed is very level headed.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And isn't he.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
On principle you know, which I think is you know,
it will be important for Toling. It's a growth city
and they've they've got they've got some real challenges.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Well, I'm really plugging the podcast in this episode, but
I did speak to Nick Smiths for the last Local
Edition episode and it was a real pleasure.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
So if anybody hasn't listened to that, you should.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Enthusiast doesn't he next?
Speaker 6 (29:25):
He is?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And there are a lot of councils that don't often
make the headlines because they're just sort of getting on
with things.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Are there any sort of quiet.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Achievers if you like that you think deserve a shout out?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Simon, I think a couple Alex Walker I mentioned before
in Central Hawks Bay, she is she gets on with
the business. They've got a whole range again water, but
other issues there to do with climate resilience and all
of the things have happened would weather in Hawks Bay. Yeah,
but I think she's pretty impressive at getting people to
(30:04):
work well together. And Paula Southgate, who's the mayor of Hamilton,
quite achiever. Hamilton is you know, everybody forever is always
talked about Hamilton as one of those cities you make
fun of. But Hamilton's not gonna make fun of the city.
It's a city with an awful lot of progress happening,
and a lot of that is due to paul.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Mac It's very scary for Simon that I agree with him.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I would have seen both Alex and Paula.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I've seen, you know, I mean Alex Walker and Centta
Hawk's Bay as the other two me is. And I
would say Sandra Hazlehurst, who's the mayor of Hastings as
well as it does very well without necessarily always having
to draw attention to her work. But Paula's Southgate. You know,
Hamilton has issues. It has issues with water, it has
(30:55):
issues with you know, how are we going to grow,
Where are we going to grow? Who's going to pay
for that? So you know that regional deal opportunity for
Hamilton and the White Cuttle is a sure thing and
not Paula Southgate to me, always strikes me as someone
who is looking for solutions and really grasping those those
tough issues. And you know, I think we know Wellington
(31:17):
has water challenges, you know, I think Hamilton does as well,
and Paula Southgate is you know, I think actively looking
at those issues and to see how better models could
be applied, so I'd go I'd go along with that.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Oh you too, I agree, Christmas?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
What about the Needs Improvement Award? Like ken you, is
there a specific example of a council that you know
really hasn't done so well, has been a bit controversial,
has made a poor decision.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Neck will start with you this time.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I sort of.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
I think we've been asked about me as I mean,
I think not.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
B Clarke and and vcar. You know, I think if
the Cargo's actually made some great leaps in the last
few years with the redevelopment of its city center and
it's really plugging itself as as a destination for tourism,
which you know, if you think about Stuart Islands and
the Catlands and Riveton and Fjordland, it's it's it's well placed.
But I do think the mayor has let the side
(32:20):
down this year. He's been censured twice. I think, as
you mentioned at the start, that does does you know
it does have it rubs off, doesn't it? In terms
of council's perception, I think I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Look.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I just think local government is really challenging. There isn't
a council that I would want to throw shade on
particularly because I don't think there.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Have been any.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Sort of things that stand out. I'd really like to
see the need in coming up with some alternatives around,
you know, to take to the government and say right,
here's here's how we can make here's how we can
do the hospital rather than just the protest. You can
do the protest thing, that's fine and you know, wear
the T shirts, but where's the actual what are you
(33:05):
bringing to the table.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And this is where I think local government.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
It's what I like about those regional deals, forcing local
government to stand up and be a partner to central government.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
I think that that is that's.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
What we should be looking for and I would have
liked to have seen that from Dunedin a little bit,
and maybe next year they will do that.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
So let's see, Simon, what about you it needs improvements?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Well, I agree with that. I had Jules Radi, the
Dunedin mayor, on my list of someone who's seems to
be a bit more blustered than actually efficiently moving forward.
Vince in fun array, I think it's a bit the
same now. But my I think my big disappointment of
the year is Craig Jepson, who was the mayor of
(33:50):
Kuiper Copper is a region that has a real kind
of classic New Zealand mix of It's a big, mighty population.
There's a big predominantly parky, wealthy farming population as well.
It's a place where you would want and expect there
(34:12):
to be a real meeting of minds and it has
the chance to be a model of how you move
forward as in provincial New Zealand, and it was doing that.
Craig Jetson has managed to infuriate and alienate the Malbi
ward member there and a whole lot of other people
(34:34):
as well, and he's enter to do it for the
fun of it. He takes so little effort to think
through how am I going to get people working together
and feeling good about being a group on the council.
But he seems to not be thinking like that at all,
and I think that's a great shame.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And look just quickly, because we are running out of
time on this zoom call local body elections, could you
just quickly summarize, you know, who you think might be
most at risk of being voted out some any big
names that you've heard who might be vying for the
Auckland or Wellington merialites snick.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Well, it's crickets from me.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
In terms of both Auckland and Wellington merialties, I just
haven't heard. When I say haven't heard, it's not that
I'm not listening, but there don't appear to be candidates.
But I would say this, I actually am the view,
and I'm not saying this to avoid the question. I've
felt this for a long time since the annual plan,
the long term plans came out earlier in the year.
I think most incumbents are vulnerable those with large rate increases.
(35:43):
It is, It's probably been explained in some places better
than others. But I think ultimately, you know, when we
are still in an economic decline, people are feeling and
rates is something that they can actually do something about
by vote, and they can actually seek to give somebody
(36:04):
a whack with their vote. And so I think those
councils that have had big rate increases, I think incumbents,
whether they elect councils or mayor's probably will all be
in and we'll.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Have some degree of vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
And yeah, whether that's appropriate or it's you know, it's
a shame, we'll find out, but it does give those people,
those incumbents, a few months to sort of work out
what they're going to say.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I suspect many will stand.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Down just because it's a tough Local government is so
hard at the moment, and there's a lot more sort
of nastiness in communities as well. Now that's been there
for a while, but we are, you know, we're under
the pump as a nation, and that unfortunately pops out
in our behavior as well.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think Auckland, because it has low rates, Wayne Brown
is looking pretty secure. It's interesting that there are three
big National party names waiting in the wings, Simon Bridges,
death to Simpson, the Debts Mayor, and Paula Bennett, but
none of them appears to be really making a run
for it. On the left, there are hoping that one
of them will, so they'll split the boat with Brown
and Eddin. But the Left has no candidate. So it
(37:11):
looks very strongly like Wayne Brown. Now we'll have a
second term if he wants it. He says he hasn't decided,
but he's behaving as if he has.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Very succinct Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
That's it for this episode of On the Tiles. The
final episode of Local Edition for twenty twenty four. You
can read more about local politics, news and opinions at
ziherld dot co dot nzd Ethan Sells is our producer
and Richard Martin is our sound engineer. I'm Georgina Campbell.
(37:45):
Tune in next week for Thomas's Year in review, and
I'll catch you again next year for more Local Edition
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