September 12, 2024 • 21 mins
After a change in central government policy, councils have overwhelmingly voted to keep Māori wards, but we'll first have to ask the public what they think via a referendum.
There's concern these polls will put more costs on councils that they simply can't afford.
This week, Georgina talks to Newstalk ZB Wellington reporter Azaria Howell to discuss the political background to this law change and exactly how much these referendums are going to cost, and later talks with Far North District Mayor Moko Tepania about why his community supports having a Māori ward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kilda and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast.
This is a local edition episode and I'm your host,
Georgena Campbell. Today we're discussing maldi warts. Councils have overwhelmingly
voted to keep them, but we'll first have to ask
the public what they think via a referendum. There's concern
(00:25):
these polls will put more costs on councils that they
simply can't afford, and will the referendums mean some maldi
wards are no more. Later I'll be talking to Far
North mayor more called Tipene about why his community supports
having a maldi wart. But first news TALKSIB Wellington reporter
Azaria Howe joins us to discuss the political background to
(00:49):
this law change and exactly how much these referendums are
going to cost Kyelder Azariah, thanks so much for joining
us on the pod.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yoda, no worries.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Can we start with the basics. What is a Maori ward?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah? So, a Maori ward is a constituency in which
people on the Malori role can vote for a Maori representative.
Now they are separate to the council wards, but there
is one Malori ward for example for Wellington City and
that representative will be from a Maori background. It is
(01:33):
making sure that there is a Maori seat at the
decision making table for councils. Obviously, Maori people can run
in non Maori ward seats and can run for mayor
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
And of course they have full voting rights just like
any other ward councilor different to Manifenuo representation for example
at Wellington City Council, where they have voting rights at
a commision level but not a full council level.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Can we go back to the law change around this
in twenty twenty one that sort of paved the way
for all of the Maori wards that we've seen be
created in recent times.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah. So the twenty twenty one law change removed the
council's requirement to hold polls on whether or not Maori
wards should be introduced. So prior to that it was
you would have to poll people in your constituencies as
to whether or not it should be put in place.
And as a result of removing that requirement, a number
(02:36):
of councils agreed to put Maori wards in place for
the twenty twenty two local elections, which are the most
recent ones. If we take for example, Wellington City Council,
it's had a Maori ward in place for that twenty
twenty two local election. It was the first one that
was in place for Wellington City. And yeah, that was
(02:56):
put in place and voted by the council rather than
as a referendum.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
What is the current government's new policy on this?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Councils that have Maori wards in place, So for example Wellington,
if we're just running with that, they have had to
recently vote whether or not to disestablish their multi ward
completely or vote to retain it and go to a poll.
Of the forty five councils that that applies to, including
(03:26):
as we say, Wellington City, forty three of the forty
five have voted to keep their multi wards and go
to that poll. So giving those voters a say at
the twenty twenty five local elections.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
How are they feeling about that, about going to a
referendum and having to do that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, it's quite an interesting discussion. I was watching pottyto
a City council relatively recently a couple of weeks ago,
when they were discussing their options whether or not to
keep their multi ward, and I think one of the
main sentiments was this idea that a referendum would perhaps
be a good idea for democracy, but that maybe the
(04:08):
government should be the ones fronting up for those costs.
There's this idea that the government is the one that
is putting this cost onto councils and onto local government
and requiring this of them, so maybe they should be
the ones picking up the cost. Seemed like quite a
few people at Potidoa City Council had that view, and
(04:29):
I feel like a lot of the debate was whether
or not the government should be the ones paying for this,
rather than is it the right thing to do? But
there is this sentiment as well that this is essentially
not just a waste of money, but seemingly a waste
of time. Some representatives calling the idea of a referendum racist,
(04:51):
slamming that idea of removing the requirement for Maori to
be represented on at council table if they have a
Maori ward.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Obviously there's a reason why Labor took away that requirement
to have a referendum. The experience of a lot of
councils was that it was too hard and they couldn't
get you know, a Maori ward pasted that referendum, So
it'd be interesting to see while there is support around
many council tables for keeping the Maori wards, when it
(05:23):
comes to the public having to say, will they feel
the same way and will we see a lot of
these wards that have been created disappear. Again, let's dig
into the cost because obviously, as you say, Poiro City
Council for example, is quite concerned about that. What is
the cost of having these referendums at a time where
(05:45):
councils are under a lot of cost pressure.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So the cost seem to vary relatively significantly, I suppose
in terms of different councils. For example, Auckland Council, which
is not actually doing a poll because it didn't have
a multi ward. It didn't need to vote to disestablish
one or to go to a poll because it didn't
have one. But their cost, for example, goes from either
(06:10):
one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars to as much
as three point five million. Now, I guess it's worth
noticing that last number of three point five million would
be if the polls were not at the twenty twenty
five local elections. So if they were just held as
sort of a standalone poll, I guess similar to that
of a by election, where it would just be at
(06:32):
a relatively random time, or it wouldn't be at election day.
That would come with even more cost delivering new voting
papers to people making sure that these polls are correct.
There's a bit of concern as well. In this Official
Information Act that I got from New Zealand Post, they're
saying that the twenty twenty five local elections are anticipated
(06:57):
to be more challenging than prior elections. It's also saying
that having these Maldi ward polls will add more complexity.
It'll be more difficult for creating those voting packs. Government
departments have also weighed in and have said there's some
concerns in terms of engagement with EWE, with Manofenowa, with Mali.
(07:21):
There's also the idea of how this policy has actually
taken into account Treaty of White Toungey Principles that was
raised by the Ministry of Maldi Development, Tepuni Coucidy. But
sime and Brown, the Local Government Minister, is saying, and
I quote here, we're simply returning the law to what
(07:41):
Helen Clark put in place back in two thousand and one.
So I think that's an interesting, I guess way to
word it as well politically in terms of linking it
back to the Helen Clark eraror especially.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes and of course a labor prime minister. What else
does Simeon Brown say in response to the criticism that
you've just outlined.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
He's saying that councils should not be afraid to ask
the public what they think. But the minister is saying
essentially that this referendum is the ultimate form of localism.
He's saying that that would be what he thinks the
most democratic thing to do. Previously, he's also said the
government was committed to quote restoring democracy. Also important to
(08:26):
note that the changes to Maori wards do not mean
that councils shouldn't consult with EWI and with Mana Fenowa.
That's still a requirement that's still obviously very important for
local government.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Thanks so much for joining as Azariah, It was a
pleasure to.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Have you on.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Welcome back to on the Tiles. Local addition, I caught
up with Far North Mukor Tippin to talk about Malori
wards and started by asking him to describe what the
meeting was like last week when his counsel was considering
whether to keep their communities Maori ward.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Oh, do do you know what I said at the
table here in the previous term, just as a counselor
pushing to and supporting our community members and Erie and
Hapu and Faro who wanted Maori wards for the far North.
And at that time, Man, it was so intensely it
was there was so much anxiety in the room. There
(09:37):
was a hope as well. This time around though, it
was such a beautiful wide will I think in my
post I said that it was. I actually couldn't put
to words that capturing the essence of how beautiful our
extraordinary meeting was, you know, despite the fact that you know,
we didn't even want to have to have it in
(09:58):
any case. But but no, the support, the why do
were the energy that was in the room and the
incredible deputations we received from EBE organizations, Hapu organizations and
from Rangatahi themselves. It was fantastic. It was a beautiful meeting.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What did people at that meeting? What did they feel
about the government's policy on this?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Oh? A lot of frustration. I mean, we had co
Marta who were in the room who stood up and said,
you know, just three years ago we were in here
fighting for this. Why on earth are we back in
here again to discuss this that hasn't been given any
any fair consideration or longevity for us to even be questioning,
(10:53):
you know, whether Maori wards are good or not for
the final then, or good or not for this council
meeting their treaty of waitany obligations under the Local Government Act.
So there was incredible frustration, not directed at our council itself,
but directed at the government for this legislation and the
provisions that it that it's forcing upon us, say, to
(11:16):
have to go to a binding poll over this, or
the fact that we have only binding pole mechanisms for
only a Maori ward but not for any of our
other representation arrangements.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Are you worried that having to go back to that referendum,
that some Maldi wards across the country will disappear because
of that?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Oh? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm I describe myself
as being naively optimistic about life in the world and
everything like that, but I'm also realistic. I think that
We're going to see a very strong and well funded
no campaign, national no campaign come through to this. We've
seen the groups the likes of Hobson's Pledge and stuff
(12:02):
like that, who have big money, Like I mean, they
managed to pay for you know, full cover in the
New Zealand here just the other week and all that
pushback that that came out from there over the you know,
the Mecca legislation and things like that. So we know
there's going to be a huge campaign there. What I
am incredibly hopeful for though is these grassroots campaigns and
(12:25):
like a national strategic grass roots that's a little bit
of a noxymoron, but you know, we are going to
see some incredible strategy coming through it for what a
Yes campaign looks like to try and keep it. I'm
incredibly hopeful for the Far North. When the final district
council before I was even sitting at the table, has
(12:47):
already how a binding poll. It failed at that I
think it was something like sixty five thirty five percent maybe,
so the council didn't establish a MALI board then. And
our last term when we first considered maoriwards, we had
huge support, Like I mean, we did a survey right
informal informal survey, but we got like five hundred responses
(13:10):
eighty five percent in support. And now people might say that,
you know, that's not very scientific or anything like that,
or that's not a large enough data capture across the
whole final then or you know, seventy five thousand people,
thirty five thousand electors that call this place home. But
at our last long term plan period, we only received
(13:30):
eight hundred submissions on how this council was going to
determine how it spent it's one hundred and seventy two
million dollar budget every year, and we made decisions based
off only nine hundred submissions. Now, that survey we did
in the previous term is a good indication. I think
the support that we've seen throughout this new legislation being
(13:53):
introduced and then finally our vote just last week on
the matter, it gives me a lot of encouragement that
people in the finals, Tanga ta Mali, Tangata Tangata Paka,
everyone in between seeing the benefits of what having this
representation mechanism means for us at this council.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And what what are those benefits?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Oh? I mean, we well, because I said at this
table previously, right just as a counselor, and now this
time around is mere, but with Maori World Councilors at
the table as well. Just the way that we've been
able to engage and connect with our communities and members
of our community who otherwise would never have probably had
(14:42):
any interest in knowing what the Head Council's doing or
wanting to take part in our processes and our decisions
and things like that. It's been absolutely phenomenal. The Finals
is a huge district. It's the third largest territorial authority
in the North Islands, seven thousand square kilometers, seventy five
(15:02):
thousand people spread over forty different settlements and we're like
five hours long in two hours wife, so we have
a lot of incredibly remote rural community settlements that are
majority Maldi. I'm from the North Hook younger on my
mom's side, so we've got some quite a number of
smaller settlements over there, the likes of Mttimiti, Pungudu Mutuiti
(15:26):
powerting that we are you know, directly engaging with community
leaders now through our Maori World Councilors. So it's been
absolutely fantastic to have those connectivity abilities through our Maori
World councilors sitting at this table, but also the wealth
of experience and knowledge and differing views that they bring
(15:47):
to the table as well.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And as you say, it's frustrating to be back here,
what would happen if councils just don't hold poles? Or
has your council given any consideration to actually saying no,
we're not going to do a referendum.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, well, by a resolution we are. We are going
to do a binding poll. That was a requirement of
the legislation was that if you were going to vote
to retain your Maori wards by default, you also had
to go to a binding poll on their very existence
at the same time. So we will be But what
(16:29):
we did, alongside quite a number of councils who are
affected by this legislation, a like forty five of us,
as we've directed our chief executive here at the Final
District Council to provide us with legal advice on the
implications if we were to actually not hold not hold
(16:51):
a pole, and that is going to go back to
our Tekuaka Maori Partnership Standing Committee for us to consider.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Interesting, Okay, it would be fascinating to see what that
advice is. Now, the cost of these referendums is another
issue that has been raised. You know, there's some thinking
that well, if the government is requiring local government to
do these referendums, then central government is the one that
(17:21):
should be paying for them. Are you worried about the
cost of them at all?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Big time. I mean, we talk in local government about
this thing called the unfunded mandate and this is just
one example of a significant number of things that come
to us through legislation through central government that we're not
funded to be able to do. And it's extra work
that we in local government have to do is directed
(17:48):
by central government that we just have to find and
find the cost for here in the Far North, for
our binding poll. Our advice so far has been that
it will cost an additional ten thousand dollars to what
are normal elections campaign will look like for us here.
That's ten thousand dollars that we are going to have
(18:08):
to just absorb as a council now in the grand
scheme of things across our one hundred and seventy two
million dollar budget here in the final that's not big.
But when I look at that across what is it
forty two councils potentially forty three councils when toting a
city make their decision. What that cost looks like for
(18:28):
us as a sector, we're going to be upwards of
five hundred thousand, so we're going to be almost, oh
absolutely over half a million dollars is going to be
spent by the local government sector on these binding polls
that we have to cover the costs of ourselves. We're
being forced to do this by central government through this
new legislation, but central government is not funding it for us.
(18:51):
Our own people are going to have to fund the
So it is incredibly unfair. I take that on one hand,
with what we're hearing on the other hand from central
government is local government. We're being told you need to
save money, you need to go back to basics, you
need to worry about the roads, you need to worry
about the wastewater pipes, the water pipes, the storm water pipes.
(19:13):
No more nice toabs and all of that sort of thing.
And I agree to some extent to that sort of thing.
And us in the fin north Man, we've done a
bloody brilliant job to have the lowest rates increase in
the country only four point five percent this year without
reducing our levels of service. But then when you get
something like this saying you need to save money but
also you need to spend money on this on a
(19:34):
decision that we don't want on our binding pole that
we don't want because hey, we made a decision to
establish Maori boards for two years at our last representation review,
alongside three general wards and thirteen community board subdivisions that
cannot get polled that don't have this mechanism. So it's unfair.
It's only singly targeting out our Maori ward. You put
(19:55):
all of that in a package and look at it
a little bit more holistically, and it's incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And just finally, what would your message be to Local
Government Minister Same and Brown over the Maori ward issue?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Well, I mean, like you know, I'm not prescribing that
Maori wards are a must and the be all end all,
and I think that each community, each council area should
get to decide over what that looks like for them.
And I have all the respect for most of our
(20:31):
South Island councils who have really great relationships with their
Manifenuwa who do not want Maori wards, but for those
of us that do, this is a mechanism that allows
us to see through our obligations under the Local Government
Act to uphold the principles of titidity or white toney
(20:53):
and Maori wards are a way of us doing that.
I understand that the Minister has campaigned on this and
so I was wanting to see it through. But if
that's the case, then pay for it. Don't put it
on us to have to pay for this is something
that you have to see through, then you pay for it.
But also don't build into the negative rhetoric or narrative
that comes with it. Let it be a fair game.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I really
appreciate the chat.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Hey youder Hey, Thanks to Gina.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Thanks for listening to this episode of On the Tiles
Local Edition. You can follow On the Tiles on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more local
politics head to INNSIDHERLD dot co, dot NZED or pick
up your local paper. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills.
This episode was edited by zied Me sound engineers. I'm
(21:43):
Georgina Campbell and on the tiles will be back next week.
Kilda and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast.
This is a local edition episode and I'm your host,
Georgena Campbell. Today we're discussing maldi warts. Councils have overwhelmingly
voted to keep them, but we'll first have to ask
the public what they think via a referendum. There's concern
(00:25):
these polls will put more costs on councils that they
simply can't afford, and will the referendums mean some maldi
wards are no more. Later I'll be talking to Far
North mayor more called Tipene about why his community supports
having a maldi wart. But first news TALKSIB Wellington reporter
Azaria Howe joins us to discuss the political background to
(00:49):
this law change and exactly how much these referendums are
going to cost Kyelder Azariah, thanks so much for joining
us on the pod.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yoda, no worries.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Can we start with the basics. What is a Maori ward?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah? So, a Maori ward is a constituency in which
people on the Malori role can vote for a Maori representative.
Now they are separate to the council wards, but there
is one Malori ward for example for Wellington City and
that representative will be from a Maori background. It is
(01:33):
making sure that there is a Maori seat at the
decision making table for councils. Obviously, Maori people can run
in non Maori ward seats and can run for mayor
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
And of course they have full voting rights just like
any other ward councilor different to Manifenuo representation for example
at Wellington City Council, where they have voting rights at
a commision level but not a full council level.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Can we go back to the law change around this
in twenty twenty one that sort of paved the way
for all of the Maori wards that we've seen be
created in recent times.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah. So the twenty twenty one law change removed the
council's requirement to hold polls on whether or not Maori
wards should be introduced. So prior to that it was
you would have to poll people in your constituencies as
to whether or not it should be put in place.
And as a result of removing that requirement, a number
(02:36):
of councils agreed to put Maori wards in place for
the twenty twenty two local elections, which are the most
recent ones. If we take for example, Wellington City Council,
it's had a Maori ward in place for that twenty
twenty two local election. It was the first one that
was in place for Wellington City. And yeah, that was
(02:56):
put in place and voted by the council rather than
as a referendum.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
What is the current government's new policy on this?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Councils that have Maori wards in place, So for example Wellington,
if we're just running with that, they have had to
recently vote whether or not to disestablish their multi ward
completely or vote to retain it and go to a poll.
Of the forty five councils that that applies to, including
(03:26):
as we say, Wellington City, forty three of the forty
five have voted to keep their multi wards and go
to that poll. So giving those voters a say at
the twenty twenty five local elections.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
How are they feeling about that, about going to a
referendum and having to do that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, it's quite an interesting discussion. I was watching pottyto
a City council relatively recently a couple of weeks ago,
when they were discussing their options whether or not to
keep their multi ward, and I think one of the
main sentiments was this idea that a referendum would perhaps
be a good idea for democracy, but that maybe the
(04:08):
government should be the ones fronting up for those costs.
There's this idea that the government is the one that
is putting this cost onto councils and onto local government
and requiring this of them, so maybe they should be
the ones picking up the cost. Seemed like quite a
few people at Potidoa City Council had that view, and
(04:29):
I feel like a lot of the debate was whether
or not the government should be the ones paying for this,
rather than is it the right thing to do? But
there is this sentiment as well that this is essentially
not just a waste of money, but seemingly a waste
of time. Some representatives calling the idea of a referendum racist,
(04:51):
slamming that idea of removing the requirement for Maori to
be represented on at council table if they have a
Maori ward.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Obviously there's a reason why Labor took away that requirement
to have a referendum. The experience of a lot of
councils was that it was too hard and they couldn't
get you know, a Maori ward pasted that referendum, So
it'd be interesting to see while there is support around
many council tables for keeping the Maori wards, when it
(05:23):
comes to the public having to say, will they feel
the same way and will we see a lot of
these wards that have been created disappear. Again, let's dig
into the cost because obviously, as you say, Poiro City
Council for example, is quite concerned about that. What is
the cost of having these referendums at a time where
(05:45):
councils are under a lot of cost pressure.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So the cost seem to vary relatively significantly, I suppose
in terms of different councils. For example, Auckland Council, which
is not actually doing a poll because it didn't have
a multi ward. It didn't need to vote to disestablish
one or to go to a poll because it didn't
have one. But their cost, for example, goes from either
(06:10):
one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars to as much
as three point five million. Now, I guess it's worth
noticing that last number of three point five million would
be if the polls were not at the twenty twenty
five local elections. So if they were just held as
sort of a standalone poll, I guess similar to that
of a by election, where it would just be at
(06:32):
a relatively random time, or it wouldn't be at election day.
That would come with even more cost delivering new voting
papers to people making sure that these polls are correct.
There's a bit of concern as well. In this Official
Information Act that I got from New Zealand Post, they're
saying that the twenty twenty five local elections are anticipated
(06:57):
to be more challenging than prior elections. It's also saying
that having these Maldi ward polls will add more complexity.
It'll be more difficult for creating those voting packs. Government
departments have also weighed in and have said there's some
concerns in terms of engagement with EWE, with Manofenowa, with Mali.
(07:21):
There's also the idea of how this policy has actually
taken into account Treaty of White Toungey Principles that was
raised by the Ministry of Maldi Development, Tepuni Coucidy. But
sime and Brown, the Local Government Minister, is saying, and
I quote here, we're simply returning the law to what
(07:41):
Helen Clark put in place back in two thousand and one.
So I think that's an interesting, I guess way to
word it as well politically in terms of linking it
back to the Helen Clark eraror especially.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes and of course a labor prime minister. What else
does Simeon Brown say in response to the criticism that
you've just outlined.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
He's saying that councils should not be afraid to ask
the public what they think. But the minister is saying
essentially that this referendum is the ultimate form of localism.
He's saying that that would be what he thinks the
most democratic thing to do. Previously, he's also said the
government was committed to quote restoring democracy. Also important to
(08:26):
note that the changes to Maori wards do not mean
that councils shouldn't consult with EWI and with Mana Fenowa.
That's still a requirement that's still obviously very important for
local government.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Thanks so much for joining as Azariah, It was a
pleasure to.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Have you on.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Welcome back to on the Tiles. Local addition, I caught
up with Far North Mukor Tippin to talk about Malori
wards and started by asking him to describe what the
meeting was like last week when his counsel was considering
whether to keep their communities Maori ward.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Oh, do do you know what I said at the
table here in the previous term, just as a counselor
pushing to and supporting our community members and Erie and
Hapu and Faro who wanted Maori wards for the far North.
And at that time, Man, it was so intensely it
was there was so much anxiety in the room. There
(09:37):
was a hope as well. This time around though, it
was such a beautiful wide will I think in my
post I said that it was. I actually couldn't put
to words that capturing the essence of how beautiful our
extraordinary meeting was, you know, despite the fact that you know,
we didn't even want to have to have it in
(09:58):
any case. But but no, the support, the why do
were the energy that was in the room and the
incredible deputations we received from EBE organizations, Hapu organizations and
from Rangatahi themselves. It was fantastic. It was a beautiful meeting.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What did people at that meeting? What did they feel
about the government's policy on this?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Oh? A lot of frustration. I mean, we had co
Marta who were in the room who stood up and said,
you know, just three years ago we were in here
fighting for this. Why on earth are we back in
here again to discuss this that hasn't been given any
any fair consideration or longevity for us to even be questioning,
(10:53):
you know, whether Maori wards are good or not for
the final then, or good or not for this council
meeting their treaty of waitany obligations under the Local Government Act.
So there was incredible frustration, not directed at our council itself,
but directed at the government for this legislation and the
provisions that it that it's forcing upon us, say, to
(11:16):
have to go to a binding poll over this, or
the fact that we have only binding pole mechanisms for
only a Maori ward but not for any of our
other representation arrangements.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Are you worried that having to go back to that referendum,
that some Maldi wards across the country will disappear because
of that?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Oh? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm I describe myself
as being naively optimistic about life in the world and
everything like that, but I'm also realistic. I think that
We're going to see a very strong and well funded
no campaign, national no campaign come through to this. We've
seen the groups the likes of Hobson's Pledge and stuff
(12:02):
like that, who have big money, Like I mean, they
managed to pay for you know, full cover in the
New Zealand here just the other week and all that
pushback that that came out from there over the you know,
the Mecca legislation and things like that. So we know
there's going to be a huge campaign there. What I
am incredibly hopeful for though is these grassroots campaigns and
(12:25):
like a national strategic grass roots that's a little bit
of a noxymoron, but you know, we are going to
see some incredible strategy coming through it for what a
Yes campaign looks like to try and keep it. I'm
incredibly hopeful for the Far North. When the final district
council before I was even sitting at the table, has
(12:47):
already how a binding poll. It failed at that I
think it was something like sixty five thirty five percent maybe,
so the council didn't establish a MALI board then. And
our last term when we first considered maoriwards, we had
huge support, Like I mean, we did a survey right
informal informal survey, but we got like five hundred responses
(13:10):
eighty five percent in support. And now people might say that,
you know, that's not very scientific or anything like that,
or that's not a large enough data capture across the
whole final then or you know, seventy five thousand people,
thirty five thousand electors that call this place home. But
at our last long term plan period, we only received
(13:30):
eight hundred submissions on how this council was going to
determine how it spent it's one hundred and seventy two
million dollar budget every year, and we made decisions based
off only nine hundred submissions. Now, that survey we did
in the previous term is a good indication. I think
the support that we've seen throughout this new legislation being
(13:53):
introduced and then finally our vote just last week on
the matter, it gives me a lot of encouragement that
people in the finals, Tanga ta Mali, Tangata Tangata Paka,
everyone in between seeing the benefits of what having this
representation mechanism means for us at this council.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And what what are those benefits?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Oh? I mean, we well, because I said at this
table previously, right just as a counselor, and now this
time around is mere, but with Maori World Councilors at
the table as well. Just the way that we've been
able to engage and connect with our communities and members
of our community who otherwise would never have probably had
(14:42):
any interest in knowing what the Head Council's doing or
wanting to take part in our processes and our decisions
and things like that. It's been absolutely phenomenal. The Finals
is a huge district. It's the third largest territorial authority
in the North Islands, seven thousand square kilometers, seventy five
(15:02):
thousand people spread over forty different settlements and we're like
five hours long in two hours wife, so we have
a lot of incredibly remote rural community settlements that are
majority Maldi. I'm from the North Hook younger on my
mom's side, so we've got some quite a number of
smaller settlements over there, the likes of Mttimiti, Pungudu Mutuiti
(15:26):
powerting that we are you know, directly engaging with community
leaders now through our Maori World Councilors. So it's been
absolutely fantastic to have those connectivity abilities through our Maori
World councilors sitting at this table, but also the wealth
of experience and knowledge and differing views that they bring
(15:47):
to the table as well.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And as you say, it's frustrating to be back here,
what would happen if councils just don't hold poles? Or
has your council given any consideration to actually saying no,
we're not going to do a referendum.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, well, by a resolution we are. We are going
to do a binding poll. That was a requirement of
the legislation was that if you were going to vote
to retain your Maori wards by default, you also had
to go to a binding poll on their very existence
at the same time. So we will be But what
(16:29):
we did, alongside quite a number of councils who are
affected by this legislation, a like forty five of us,
as we've directed our chief executive here at the Final
District Council to provide us with legal advice on the
implications if we were to actually not hold not hold
(16:51):
a pole, and that is going to go back to
our Tekuaka Maori Partnership Standing Committee for us to consider.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Interesting, Okay, it would be fascinating to see what that
advice is. Now, the cost of these referendums is another
issue that has been raised. You know, there's some thinking
that well, if the government is requiring local government to
do these referendums, then central government is the one that
(17:21):
should be paying for them. Are you worried about the
cost of them at all?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Big time. I mean, we talk in local government about
this thing called the unfunded mandate and this is just
one example of a significant number of things that come
to us through legislation through central government that we're not
funded to be able to do. And it's extra work
that we in local government have to do is directed
(17:48):
by central government that we just have to find and
find the cost for here in the Far North, for
our binding poll. Our advice so far has been that
it will cost an additional ten thousand dollars to what
are normal elections campaign will look like for us here.
That's ten thousand dollars that we are going to have
(18:08):
to just absorb as a council now in the grand
scheme of things across our one hundred and seventy two
million dollar budget here in the final that's not big.
But when I look at that across what is it
forty two councils potentially forty three councils when toting a
city make their decision. What that cost looks like for
(18:28):
us as a sector, we're going to be upwards of
five hundred thousand, so we're going to be almost, oh
absolutely over half a million dollars is going to be
spent by the local government sector on these binding polls
that we have to cover the costs of ourselves. We're
being forced to do this by central government through this
new legislation, but central government is not funding it for us.
(18:51):
Our own people are going to have to fund the
So it is incredibly unfair. I take that on one hand,
with what we're hearing on the other hand from central
government is local government. We're being told you need to
save money, you need to go back to basics, you
need to worry about the roads, you need to worry
about the wastewater pipes, the water pipes, the storm water pipes.
(19:13):
No more nice toabs and all of that sort of thing.
And I agree to some extent to that sort of thing.
And us in the fin north Man, we've done a
bloody brilliant job to have the lowest rates increase in
the country only four point five percent this year without
reducing our levels of service. But then when you get
something like this saying you need to save money but
also you need to spend money on this on a
(19:34):
decision that we don't want on our binding pole that
we don't want because hey, we made a decision to
establish Maori boards for two years at our last representation review,
alongside three general wards and thirteen community board subdivisions that
cannot get polled that don't have this mechanism. So it's unfair.
It's only singly targeting out our Maori ward. You put
(19:55):
all of that in a package and look at it
a little bit more holistically, and it's incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And just finally, what would your message be to Local
Government Minister Same and Brown over the Maori ward issue?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Well, I mean, like you know, I'm not prescribing that
Maori wards are a must and the be all end all,
and I think that each community, each council area should
get to decide over what that looks like for them.
And I have all the respect for most of our
(20:31):
South Island councils who have really great relationships with their
Manifenuwa who do not want Maori wards, but for those
of us that do, this is a mechanism that allows
us to see through our obligations under the Local Government
Act to uphold the principles of titidity or white toney
(20:53):
and Maori wards are a way of us doing that.
I understand that the Minister has campaigned on this and
so I was wanting to see it through. But if
that's the case, then pay for it. Don't put it
on us to have to pay for this is something
that you have to see through, then you pay for it.
But also don't build into the negative rhetoric or narrative
that comes with it. Let it be a fair game.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I really
appreciate the chat.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Hey youder Hey, Thanks to Gina.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Thanks for listening to this episode of On the Tiles
Local Edition. You can follow On the Tiles on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more local
politics head to INNSIDHERLD dot co, dot NZED or pick
up your local paper. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills.
This episode was edited by zied Me sound engineers. I'm
(21:43):
Georgina Campbell and on the tiles will be back next week.
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