Aaron Hendry: Rough sleeper ban would do more harm

The Government has confirmed they're considering action to move rough sleepers out of Auckland's city centre. 

Mayor Wayne Brown has given his go ahead, but the opposition as well as housing advocates have said a policy like this would just move the problem elsewhere and end up creating more harm. 

No details have been released yet, ministers say they are still working through the issues and how to deal with them, but that hasn't stopped the controversy. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk
said b Yes, news Talk said B. Now, the government's
confirmed that they are rough sleepers out of Aucklands City Center.
Mayor Wayne Brown has given us go ahead, but the
opposition as well as housing advocates have said a policy
like this just moves the problem elsewhere and ends up
creating more harm. No details have been released yet. The

(00:26):
ministers say they're still working through the issues and how
to deal with them. But of course it hasn't stopped
the controversy and the discussion and the youth thought homelessness
organization Kickback called Kickback. The director Aaron Hendry joins me. Now, Aaron,
good afternoon, Sure, how you doing good? Good? So what's

(00:47):
your take on the government considering this action.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Look, we're really concerned if this goes ahead, essentiously, what
it'll do is push more of our you know, some
of the most vulnerable people into the further and further
out into the suburbs and into spaces where they'll particulately
be more at risk and more risk parmament. It's really
important for us to recognize that there is a reason
why we see more of our finer sleeping on the street,
and that's because of very clear decisions our government has

(01:13):
made that have increased timelessness and made things worse for
our finer.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So just leave them there or what.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I mean? There is a real solution to this, right
and that's housing. It's ensuring that we provide shelter for people.
You know, one of the direct policies that has impacted
on more of our people sleeping on the street is
the Emergency Housing policy, which has meant that more people
have gone to work and income asks for help, being
denied that help and ended up on our streets. So look,
right now, we could do some really meaningful things. We
could roll back the emergency housing policy. The government could

(01:42):
invest in an immediate housing solutions so that people could
get access to shelter when they need it, and they
could start ensuring that they're building more houses and supporting
people into long housing, sustainable housing.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
How many people actually who would be sleeping on the
street have have altered because you do hear of people
who like I just I don't want to go with
the government wants me to go. I don't want to
go into that place. I'd rather just be doing my
thing Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Look, one of the impacts of you know, some of
the governments in recent decisions has been in some of
the environments that people are being forced to shelter into
are pretty unsafe and they're pretty dangerous. You know, there'll
be hostels or lodges which aren't places where you can
really live. They're highly regulated that they're often hygienically unsafe

(02:34):
or just dangerous environments. And so there are some people
that genuinely are safer sleeping on the street where there's
community and people around them than being by themselves in
the lodge where they are at risk. And that is
an indictment on us as a society and sort of
the conditions we're allowing some of our most vulnerable people
to live in. And so look, again, there's a solution
to this, right, it's government investing in immediate housing services

(02:55):
and solutions that ensure that people get safe access to
shelter when they need it.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
So are there if there were solutions there? I mean,
I don't think the government just wants to shove them
to another street. That's not the vibe I get. What
do you understand from what's being proposed?

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Look, I mean there are solutions there, right, So there
are services and organizations that are already modeling some really
innovative responsive services that right now just need investment. They
need to be invested in, they need to be scaled up,
and they need to be rolled out across the country, right,
And so there are models there. It's really about the
government choosing to invest in ensuring that people are sheltered.

(03:37):
We're going to pay for this, eve, Wait right, you're
going to pay for it in policing. You're going to
pay for it incarcerating people, or you're going to pay
for it and ensuring that people are housing, they get
access to shelter.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
So, I mean, how homelessness has been around for quite
a long time. Are you saying that this is all
just sitting on the doorstep of this government or is
it previous government?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
No? No, look, it's successive governments that have led us
to where we are. Right So we have not really
done enough ever to bond to homelessness and housing and
security in this country. Homelessness, you know, foundationally is the
product of you know, a housing system that modifies housing
and values the rights of those who own homes over

(04:17):
the rights and the lives of those who live in
them and so look, there is a lot of work
that needs to be done. But look if we look
at what has happened since this government has come in,
there's been some really clear decisions that they have made.
There has made the situation worse and we're seeing it
on our stom.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
What's an example of people, what's an example What one example.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Would be the emergency housing policy right, so directly from
the moment that they made that decision, there were more
people that were denied access to shelter and ended up
sleeping rough as a result. Before then, there was more
people hotels and intellaghy well because the government made some
decisions to restrict access to make it more to get
access to that support. And what we saw and we've

(04:57):
we've supported, you know, many young people through this process.
We saw people going into work and income directly telling
them look, we're sleeping on the street, we have no
access to support, and then being straight out tonight. And
this has happened across the country right. Other decisions that
the government made is they cut twenty million dollars worth
of funding that would have gone into building housing services
for young people experiencing homestice. That was a very clear decision.

(05:18):
The decisions they've made around the sanctions policies. Look, those
are resulting in more people getting stuck in bureaucracy when
they're trying to get access to shelter and ending up
on the street while they're trying to work through a
really complicated system. And so these are clear decisions the
government has made. They have made this decision worse, and
now the government is saying, well, okay, the problem, we've
kind of created it, and we're going to punish these

(05:39):
people further rather than actually providing them with meaningful support.
We can solve this issue. What are clear solution and
that's housing.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, that's not going to be instant, is it? But
what about the businesses and people who feel unsafe in
those particular areas.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Absolutely, first, I think we need to be really clear
that there is a very little correlation between people who
are unhoused and crime. Right, So theres a lot of
and the police will say this themselves, right, a lot
of the crime and harm that is happening in those
environments isn't because of our unhoused people. But but look
there again, there is work that has already been done

(06:15):
and what is needed is more investment into those sorts.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
If there is a place, if there is a place
to relocate people to, do you support that the on
the face of it, a law saying well, actually, I
guess you can't hang around here. We're relocating you somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Essentially, if you put into legislation, what you will do
is drive people further and further into unsafe environments, which
will increase risk for people.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right let's imagine there's a safe for them to go.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
What what we know works though, What we know works
is investing in one immediate housing, access shelter immediately, and
then the right support services to go out there, build
trust for people, and then get supports the services. People
do not want to be sleeping on the street. That
is really clear. Give you a real clear enough. Just
this week, we're the young person who's sleeping rough. We
were notified by the community. Within twenty minutes, we were

(07:10):
able to find shelter for that young person and they
were able to move into a space and now they're
receiving rep around support. That was able to happen through
community connection and through trust and through having access to
those resources. Right now, we can do so much more
than that if we have the right resources to be
able to support that resources. Well, it's like it is funding.
That is one thing to be able to get the

(07:31):
climber on the ground out there building community and in
connecting with people. The other thing is again immediate healthing services.
There's very few safe places for people to go when
they are at risk of harm. If you provide those
opportunities for people, then they will not be on the street,
they will be in a safe environment where they getting
the support that they need.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Okay, Aaron, Hey, thanks very much for your time. That
is Aaron Hendry. He's the director of Kickback, which is
notization helpen with you Timeless for more from the Weekend Collective,
listen live to news talks there'd be weekends from three pm.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
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