August 3, 2024 • 6 mins
Act MP Karen Chhour has raised concerns with Parliament becoming an unsafe working environment following personal attacks surrounding her youth offender boot camp.
Former Speaker of the House Sir David Carter joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss whether the conversation around race relations will ever cool down.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
I'd be act.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
MP Karen Tuer has said that Parliament no no longer
feels like a safe work environment for her after the
recent debate around youth offender boot camps and other legislation
has turned from criticism against legislation to personal attacks against her,
much of this coming from Tapati Mari saying what quote
is the quote here? How sad that you have been
(00:31):
made a puppet of your party and posting on social
media that she was raised Parkire with a disconnection and
disdain for her people, and she isn't the first to
highlight the hardships of being in Parliament, but is it
getting too much with the personal attacks and the tone
of the whole place. Joining me is former Speaker of
the House David Carter. Good afternoon, Good afternoon too. Yeah,
(00:53):
thanks for your time. How closely have you been following
Parliament in the last little while in the tone of
these debates and attacks?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I certainly don't watch Parliament on a daily basis. I
think I think watched it once, so I've left. I
spent twenty six years in question time. But however, I
do keep in touch with media. I certainly watched news
everything most nights, so I can sense that the tone
of Parliament is declined and it's a worry to me,
particularly with regards to race relations.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Is it just a question of some politicians needing to
lift their game?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, I think yes, but this idea, Yes, yes it is.
It's the short answer to question. But identifying which of
those politicians need to lift their game is a more
difficult question. They all are mature people. They've all been
elected legally to Parliament and the voters that elected those
people expect them to be responsible adults and to behave
that way and to be there certainly to argue their
(01:53):
party's policies, et cetera. But they should all be there
for the one thing, and that's to make mow Zilds
a better.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Place on the issue of race. And of course we've
got the Tree Prince Principal's Bill as well, with that
active brought forward. Are we actually no, not a we? Sorry?
Are the people in Parliament actually capable of having a
discussion on this in a civilized way or need to
take it off the table for them like a bunch
of toddles who can't aground which toy to play with?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, I think we should be able to have a
rational debate. And if you go back to the Marini
Party when it was formed in two thousand and four
and then they came into the John Key government that
I was paid off in two thousand and eight, you
had people like Tariana Turia. Didn't have to agree with
everything she said. You have people like Petter Sharple's. You
didn't have to agree with everything he said, but you
could have a rational debate. It seems to me that
(02:44):
at the moment it's difficult to have a rational debate
with current members of the Mary Party. I think many
times if you try and have a debate with them,
then sadly they accuse you of being racist. Let's settle down,
debate the issues, not attack the people, and I think
that would be the way we've got to improve race
relations in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What role does the speaker have in this, because there
are some who have suggested that, you know, there's far
too much tolerance for accusations flowing one way than the other.
I mean, can you imagine the outrage if someone was
accused of betraying their parque our origins? Origins, we'd all
be reaching for the smelling salts.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
The speakers in a difficult position, but ultimately the responsibility
rests with him. If there are snide bullying remarks being
made in the Titles of Parliament between one member and another,
and that creates a bullying atmosphere, then you could argue
it's no longer a safe workplace. In that case, I
guess the legal responsibility probably goes back to the General
Manager of Parliamentary Service. But who is the Minister for
(03:45):
Parliamentary Service. It's the current Speaker, right Honorable Jerry Brownlee.
So in that respect, whatever's happening outside the house he
is still responsible for when you move it into the
debating chamber. As the Speaker and particularly presiding over question
time each day that Parliament sits, he is the ultimate
determinant and the ultimate control of that of the procedure
(04:07):
within Parliament at question time, and therefore he has to
accept responsibility, listen to the argments of perform and he
must all accordingly.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Okay, well, so I mean it's difficult without offering criticism
what he's doing. But what can you imagine what would
you suggest might be an approach that a Speaker could
take with these personal attacks.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well as I say, they occur within parliament. I'm not
a regular watcher a question time, but there are things
said at Parliament and the reporter to him. I think
he needs to call that member out he's made a
remark that's unsatisfactory, asked that member to withdraw and apologize.
That's the sort of control that I would have exercised
when I was spector. If it's occurring outside Parliament, outside
(04:52):
the debating chamber, it's a little more difficult for him
because there'll be the head she said type attitude. He's
got to their attempt to try and find out what's happening.
But the Business Committee that he chairs meets every Tuesday.
He's got the opportunity at those meetings to get the
whips of all parties together and say, come on, guys,
this is about the reputation of New Zealand's democracy. We're
(05:14):
meant to be adults here. Let's stop this sort of behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So John Key at the National Party AGM has talked
about we need to turn down the temperature a little
bit on the race relations. Do you think that's going
to happen? We are we going to find it within
ourselves to call it. I mean, we can hope so,
but do you think what's your prediction because I can't
imagine it don't getting anywhere. But worse.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
No, I think we all members of Parliament have a
responsibility to tone it down and they need to work
collectively to do so. Otherwise it used to become star
wors for New Zealand. I know of people who recently
left New Zealand to go to Australia. You ask them why,
they never would be say, oh, I think I'll be
financially better off. Talking a lit bit deeper when a
two them say we're worried about race relations in this country.
(06:02):
That's not a satisfactory situation. And all parliamentarians elected by
the people of New Zealand have a responsibility to recognize
the temperature has got a lot higher and they collectively
need to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Okay, hey David, I really appreciate your time this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Thanks so much, Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, bye bye. That's former Speaker. That's David Cardiff.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
I'd be act.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
MP Karen Tuer has said that Parliament no no longer
feels like a safe work environment for her after the
recent debate around youth offender boot camps and other legislation
has turned from criticism against legislation to personal attacks against her,
much of this coming from Tapati Mari saying what quote
is the quote here? How sad that you have been
(00:31):
made a puppet of your party and posting on social
media that she was raised Parkire with a disconnection and
disdain for her people, and she isn't the first to
highlight the hardships of being in Parliament, but is it
getting too much with the personal attacks and the tone
of the whole place. Joining me is former Speaker of
the House David Carter. Good afternoon, Good afternoon too. Yeah,
(00:53):
thanks for your time. How closely have you been following
Parliament in the last little while in the tone of
these debates and attacks?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I certainly don't watch Parliament on a daily basis. I
think I think watched it once, so I've left. I
spent twenty six years in question time. But however, I
do keep in touch with media. I certainly watched news
everything most nights, so I can sense that the tone
of Parliament is declined and it's a worry to me,
particularly with regards to race relations.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Is it just a question of some politicians needing to
lift their game?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, I think yes, but this idea, Yes, yes it is.
It's the short answer to question. But identifying which of
those politicians need to lift their game is a more
difficult question. They all are mature people. They've all been
elected legally to Parliament and the voters that elected those
people expect them to be responsible adults and to behave
that way and to be there certainly to argue their
(01:53):
party's policies, et cetera. But they should all be there
for the one thing, and that's to make mow Zilds
a better.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Place on the issue of race. And of course we've
got the Tree Prince Principal's Bill as well, with that
active brought forward. Are we actually no, not a we? Sorry?
Are the people in Parliament actually capable of having a
discussion on this in a civilized way or need to
take it off the table for them like a bunch
of toddles who can't aground which toy to play with?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, I think we should be able to have a
rational debate. And if you go back to the Marini
Party when it was formed in two thousand and four
and then they came into the John Key government that
I was paid off in two thousand and eight, you
had people like Tariana Turia. Didn't have to agree with
everything she said. You have people like Petter Sharple's. You
didn't have to agree with everything he said, but you
could have a rational debate. It seems to me that
(02:44):
at the moment it's difficult to have a rational debate
with current members of the Mary Party. I think many
times if you try and have a debate with them,
then sadly they accuse you of being racist. Let's settle down,
debate the issues, not attack the people, and I think
that would be the way we've got to improve race
relations in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What role does the speaker have in this, because there
are some who have suggested that, you know, there's far
too much tolerance for accusations flowing one way than the other.
I mean, can you imagine the outrage if someone was
accused of betraying their parque our origins? Origins, we'd all
be reaching for the smelling salts.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
The speakers in a difficult position, but ultimately the responsibility
rests with him. If there are snide bullying remarks being
made in the Titles of Parliament between one member and another,
and that creates a bullying atmosphere, then you could argue
it's no longer a safe workplace. In that case, I
guess the legal responsibility probably goes back to the General
Manager of Parliamentary Service. But who is the Minister for
(03:45):
Parliamentary Service. It's the current Speaker, right Honorable Jerry Brownlee.
So in that respect, whatever's happening outside the house he
is still responsible for when you move it into the
debating chamber. As the Speaker and particularly presiding over question
time each day that Parliament sits, he is the ultimate
determinant and the ultimate control of that of the procedure
(04:07):
within Parliament at question time, and therefore he has to
accept responsibility, listen to the argments of perform and he
must all accordingly.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Okay, well, so I mean it's difficult without offering criticism
what he's doing. But what can you imagine what would
you suggest might be an approach that a Speaker could
take with these personal attacks.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well as I say, they occur within parliament. I'm not
a regular watcher a question time, but there are things
said at Parliament and the reporter to him. I think
he needs to call that member out he's made a
remark that's unsatisfactory, asked that member to withdraw and apologize.
That's the sort of control that I would have exercised
when I was spector. If it's occurring outside Parliament, outside
(04:52):
the debating chamber, it's a little more difficult for him
because there'll be the head she said type attitude. He's
got to their attempt to try and find out what's happening.
But the Business Committee that he chairs meets every Tuesday.
He's got the opportunity at those meetings to get the
whips of all parties together and say, come on, guys,
this is about the reputation of New Zealand's democracy. We're
(05:14):
meant to be adults here. Let's stop this sort of behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So John Key at the National Party AGM has talked
about we need to turn down the temperature a little
bit on the race relations. Do you think that's going
to happen? We are we going to find it within
ourselves to call it. I mean, we can hope so,
but do you think what's your prediction because I can't
imagine it don't getting anywhere. But worse.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
No, I think we all members of Parliament have a
responsibility to tone it down and they need to work
collectively to do so. Otherwise it used to become star
wors for New Zealand. I know of people who recently
left New Zealand to go to Australia. You ask them why,
they never would be say, oh, I think I'll be
financially better off. Talking a lit bit deeper when a
two them say we're worried about race relations in this country.
(06:02):
That's not a satisfactory situation. And all parliamentarians elected by
the people of New Zealand have a responsibility to recognize
the temperature has got a lot higher and they collectively
need to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Okay, hey David, I really appreciate your time this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Thanks so much, Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, bye bye. That's former Speaker. That's David Cardiff.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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