December 13, 2025 • 15 mins
It's been a week of back and forth for the Taxpayers' Union and the Finance Minister.
Nicola Willis has challenged Union chair and former finance minister Ruth Richardson to a debate, which was met with a sweet treat sent to Nicola and media.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So yeah, it's been a week in away, isn't it
a week of back and forth to it for the
Taxpays Union and the Finance Minister. Nicola Willis has challenged
the union chair still feels weird calling it a union,
doesn't it anyway? The union chair, the Taxpays Union chair
and former Finance Minister Ruth Richardson to a debate, which
(00:30):
was met with a sweet treat which was sent to
Nicola and the media, among other things. It's looking like
the debate will take place this Thursday, but some are
asking why the GDP announcement on the same day. Maybe
isn't taken priority. Anyway, We're going to dig into it now.
It's a great chance to have a chat with her
as we head towards the end of the year, and
Nicola Willis joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Now, good afternoon, good afternoon, and can I say it
is the most beautiful sunny day and well Incombe okay, lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's nice to start with some positive, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, no wind, no, just gorgeous and of course
we had a big averatar premedy. Yeah, last night, and
so we had lots of Wellingtonians on the streets and
the restaurants and the bars. So the city's got a
bit of a buzz about it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I saw, actually, just in the background, I saw you
there looking quite sugie already for the premiere. Was it
a good night?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It was a great night. I mean celebrating an industry
that creates lots of very well paying jobs for Kiwis,
and that we're world renowned them. You know, we've got
the best digital effects, we've got an amazing screen talent,
and so fantastic to see a world leading movie being
opened here in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, good stuff. Hey did you try the fudge? I
heard it was quite tasty.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
No, I won't be trying the fudge. I mean casu really,
I mean ending all that time designing a fudge box,
designing the ingredients list, the names of the fudge. I
think New Zealanders would prefer real substance in their policy debate,
and that's what's absolutely what I'm focused on.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I guess it got our attention, but actually I'd be
honest that AI video, something about it seemed a little
creepy to me. What did you what was your reaction
to it.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, it was interesting because I've seen it all in politics,
and you get used to the kind of personal attacks.
It's all part of the job. It kind of just
slips off me. But when I saw that, I thought, gosh,
I'm a bit creeped out about where this could go
in future. If people can make videos of politicians doing
and saying things they never did, or seed using an
(02:33):
AI image that looks like them, that has some pretty
disturbing implications. But look, in that case, I think it
was pretty harmless. It was weird though, the way it
looks like me that didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Look like I thought that, Yeah, I did wonder who
that sampled, because for a minute there there was you
and then it was you, sort of like it was
you'd been crossed with Erica Stanford and someone else. I
couldn't work it out anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, being crossed with Erica Stanford is never a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'll take that in the day anyway. Hey, Look, so
what's what's going on with this debate with Ruth Richardson?
It seems to have taken on a life of its own.
Who's picking the fight and where are we at with it?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, I'm king to have a proper policy debate. As
I said earlier, enough of these silly, childish gains of
fudgs boxes and the like. Actually, ours is a government
that has a very proud track record of reducing wasteful spending,
of ensuring that spending is a proportion of the economy
is coming down. That we're going to get that Betkasey
bending down. So I get a bit fed up with
(03:32):
the taxpayers unions falsely comparing me to Grant Robertson. I
want the chance to defend our government's record, to put
out there the hard work we've done, the forty three
billion dollars worth of stavings we've delivered, also ensuring that, yes,
and I'm not ashamed of this, we are putting more
investment into the health system, into the education system, into
(03:52):
our defense force, into our police, those priorities for our government.
And the Taxpayers Union may take issue with that, but
I think that's actually what New Zealanders expect from us.
So I want to debate that and debate it in
real terms, not in sudgebox turns.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Is it is it? Because I mean, they'll chalk it
up as a win because they've got under your skin
that they're going to have a debate with you, now,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, I just see this as me saying, you know what,
I am going to stand up for myself and I'm
not going to sit back and let you pop shop
from the sidelines. Come on frontap have the actual debate
on the actual substance. And I'm prepared to do that
pretty readily because I'm ready to go. So, look, we're
having a discussion about when I agree with those of
(04:37):
saidlock Suitsdays a big day from the EW Zealand because
we will be announcing the updated forecasts about how the
economy has been growing and I would like that to
be the focus on Thursday. So we're having a bit
of negotiation about when is the best day to do it.
And look, my thing has been I don't really care
who who's in charge, but let's just make sure all
(05:00):
media can cover it, not just one out.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
When When will it be likely.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Next week? So it's just a matter of negotiating a
date that works for everyone. I'm certainly of the view
that we can do it next week, so we should
do it next week.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I was just thinking about questions and to ask you,
I was wondering if the reason you were keen for
the debate is that you might be sitting on some
good news with Hifu.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, I think anyone who's been listening to the economic
and business commentators over recent times will tell you that suddenly,
in the last little while we have seen an uptick
and some of the economic activity that we look to
so retail spending, residential investment, manufacturing activity, all of those
(05:45):
things are looking pretty positive, and so that bodes well
for GDP on Thursday. The half year updates which I
announced on Tuesday won't capture all of that good news
because it's the economic forecasts get put to bed a
lot earlier in October. But look, I think that New
Zealand is experienced saying what our government has been saying
(06:07):
is going to happen, which is we've all been through
a very tough time together, but we now have stable
inflation and lower interest rates, and we're seeing businesses and
households responding positively to that, which means next year is
going to be a year of more growth, more job
hir incomes, all the things we want to see.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So if I was to put that into a nice
little mixture, there I think you've just told us that
you are thinking that we're going to have some good
stuff to talk about this week.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Well, I think there will be with that GDP number.
I'm very confident based on the forecast ASBT show and
even Treasury, who are knowine for being pretty conservative, think
that that GDP data in the third quarter could be
really high. I mean earlier they were predicting it would
only be zero point four percent. They now think it
will be higher than that of economists to predicting it
(06:57):
could be anywhere between zero point five and one percent
growth for the three months from September. That's positive. That's
a big turnaround for the calendar year as a whole.
New Zealand will have been growing and growing positively, which
is what we need to see. So that will be
good news. But will all be reflected in the half
year update. Unlikely, the half here update will still reflect
(07:18):
the statistics from earlier in the year.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
When you're debating Ruth Richardson and was there someone that
in the past you've looked up to it all.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Look, I think we share some common views, which are,
for example, that governments have a responsibility to keep its
debt under control and I think she, like me, regrets
the fact that under the last government, debt is a
proportion of GDP more than doubled, and we really don't
have much to show for it as a country. And
(07:49):
like rous, I believe that where we can let New
Zealanders keep more of their own money and we can
reduce taxes to achieve that, we should. But I'm also
really proud of the fact that our government's been doing
sensible fiscal consolidation and economic management while also preserving frontline
services for kiwis. And I think that's where the debate lies.
(08:10):
Should we, as the tax Post Union would put it,
have cut services more greatly in order to achieve consolidation earlier?
And I just think this isn't a sprint. This is
something we have to be deliberate about, we have to
be very hard headed about. But we don't need to
do it overnight in a way that causes hardship to
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Some are saying that you're keen for the argument because
it's politically it's quite good to be seen to be
standing up for taxpayers Union and also the person who
delivered the mother of all budgets. Politically, it's just good.
It's like, look, you know, I'm not her.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well obviously I'm not her, but I am a tough
cookie and I will stand up for myself. And I
can tell you all of those who are sort of
overthinking it and saying, oh, this is some big strategy,
some big conspiracy, it's simply me wanting to go out
there and advocate for the policies and positions our government
has taken and backing myself to do that. That's all
it is. And actually it's in the spirit of public debate,
(09:07):
and New Zealanders will make their own minds up. What
are you think about who they agree with?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
What do you think we will get out of this?
What's possibly going to come out of this debate with Ruth?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
What do you think that the average punter will end
up gleaning from this?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Well, I think the average punter, if I'm honest, will
probably be more focused on their Christmas shopping and their
Christmas method So that's the end. For those who are interested,
they will get to hear me set out clearly this
government's plan for getting our blocks back in order, the
track record we have of delivering that so far, the
(09:42):
balance we are striking between achieving that while also increasing
investment in our health system, our defense source and other
critical priorities. And see how that comes together. And then
to hear in a bit more detail when the text
post unions say it's cut spending fast. That may sound good,
but what does that mean in terms of reduced services?
And do New Zealanders really want to see that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Just a couple of things to look at. So her
so I would say public spending is higher than when
Grant Robertson left. Is there a point there that public
spending is higher than when Grant Robertson left.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, that's in what we call nominal terms, and it's
just about every government increases spending and nominal terms, what
we traditionally look at is how does the government's share
of spending look at as a proportion of the economy.
And that's the measure that we're focused on as a government,
that the key English government focused on, and our target
is to get it back to thirty percent of GDP.
(10:36):
For context, Grant Robertson had it up at thirty four
point four percent, so a lot higher, and we've already
in the last year got it down to thirty two
and a half percent as a proportion of the overall economy.
So we do agree that the government shouldn't be spending
too much of its fair share, and that is why
we are targeting that reduction and spending other time.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What about that the core public service, I note the
expression core public service has shrunk by not even one percent.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
What do you say to that, Well, what we have
done is reduced significantly the number of public servants and
back office roles. So that's the likes of policy analysts, managers, administrators.
But at the same time, we have increased, for example,
the numbers of corrections offices, and that's because we are
(11:23):
locking up violent criminals more readily and for longer, and
so we've increased the public sector workforce to respond to that.
We are hiring more teacher ades than those to assist
teachers in our classrooms and those with additional education needs.
So yes, and we've actually hired many more nurses as well.
But when it comes to those back office roles, for
(11:44):
the first time since about twenty seventeen, we have actually
in real terms, reduced the number of people and many
of those more bureaucratic roles.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
If you will, So if you had to give yourself
as I sort of hate these questions, but I did
write it down anyway. But if you had to name
one thing that you you are happy that you've done
this year, what's just you know, when would you give
yourself a really positive score.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well, I'm really proud that in the midst of a
challenging economic time, we patch New Zealand by saying, actually,
we want our businesses to be growing in the future
so they can pay workers more and this can be
a wealthier economy. And when all of the evidence came
in and the advice came in to me saying the
best thing News that could do to target that is
(12:33):
to give them a tax break for their investments, we
found a way to do it, and that investment boased
tax policy, which means that businesses who make an investment
in machinery or equipment or productivity get a discount on
their tax bill. That's going to make a difference, not
just this year or next year. It's not a sugarheard,
it's not a little band aid. It's going to make
(12:54):
a long term difference. It's going to make our economy
wealthier and estimates of our officials will lift wages across
this economy. So I'm proud we did that.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
When do you think there's one thing to say data
and or data? We see the figures that are giving
course for optimism, but when do you think New Zealanders
will actually feel that? Because there's one thing to see
the numbers and go, well, apparently I'm supposed to be
feeling a bit better, but I'm not. When do you
think we're going to feel it?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I totally agree with you. So it's one thing for
me to say, look at all the data points. It's
another thing for families to feel it in their household.
So I think that the first thing is that a
lot of New Zealanders will feel more confident when they
can see that jobs are being created again, and so
they can feel more secure in their own employment and
all of the indicators I'm seeing, so that that effect
(13:40):
will be occuring over the next few months. I think
the other thing is just that sense that better times
lie aheads And I don't blame anyone who says, well,
I'm I'm not going to believe the politicians on that.
I think they need to see that from the independent
experts saying well, our read of the data is that
New Zealand's got some good years ahead of it, and
I think increasingly we will see people saying that over
(14:03):
the next few months. And what that means, I guess
for an average family is you've got a good job
now and if you work hard, you can look forward
to a pay rise and a promotion. This is going
to be an economy that has the thing that needed
to your family, whether it's health services, education services. We've
got wealthier tomorrows than we do yesterday.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Done your Christmas shopping yet?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Oh my gosh, it gives me a headache to even
hear you ask that question. No, no, I haven't, but
I do have some plans in the back of my mind.
There'll be a lot of reference sheltering me this weekend.
But I haven't done some good work already.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It must be difficult because you've got to think what
do I get?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Ruth, Well, look, I've always preferred flowers to maybe maybe
I'll gut or a bunch.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Of flowers, yes, yes, yep, A nice yeah, nice, A
nice bunch of flowers. I think, maybe even the edible type.
You never know. They kill two buses one. Hey, Nichola,
thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks b weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So yeah, it's been a week in away, isn't it
a week of back and forth to it for the
Taxpays Union and the Finance Minister. Nicola Willis has challenged
the union chair still feels weird calling it a union,
doesn't it anyway? The union chair, the Taxpays Union chair
and former Finance Minister Ruth Richardson to a debate, which
(00:30):
was met with a sweet treat which was sent to
Nicola and the media, among other things. It's looking like
the debate will take place this Thursday, but some are
asking why the GDP announcement on the same day. Maybe
isn't taken priority. Anyway, We're going to dig into it now.
It's a great chance to have a chat with her
as we head towards the end of the year, and
Nicola Willis joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Now, good afternoon, good afternoon, and can I say it
is the most beautiful sunny day and well Incombe okay, lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's nice to start with some positive, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, no wind, no, just gorgeous and of course
we had a big averatar premedy. Yeah, last night, and
so we had lots of Wellingtonians on the streets and
the restaurants and the bars. So the city's got a
bit of a buzz about it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I saw, actually, just in the background, I saw you
there looking quite sugie already for the premiere. Was it
a good night?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It was a great night. I mean celebrating an industry
that creates lots of very well paying jobs for Kiwis,
and that we're world renowned them. You know, we've got
the best digital effects, we've got an amazing screen talent,
and so fantastic to see a world leading movie being
opened here in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, good stuff. Hey did you try the fudge? I
heard it was quite tasty.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
No, I won't be trying the fudge. I mean casu really,
I mean ending all that time designing a fudge box,
designing the ingredients list, the names of the fudge. I
think New Zealanders would prefer real substance in their policy debate,
and that's what's absolutely what I'm focused on.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I guess it got our attention, but actually I'd be
honest that AI video, something about it seemed a little
creepy to me. What did you what was your reaction
to it.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, it was interesting because I've seen it all in politics,
and you get used to the kind of personal attacks.
It's all part of the job. It kind of just
slips off me. But when I saw that, I thought, gosh,
I'm a bit creeped out about where this could go
in future. If people can make videos of politicians doing
and saying things they never did, or seed using an
(02:33):
AI image that looks like them, that has some pretty
disturbing implications. But look, in that case, I think it
was pretty harmless. It was weird though, the way it
looks like me that didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Look like I thought that, Yeah, I did wonder who
that sampled, because for a minute there there was you
and then it was you, sort of like it was
you'd been crossed with Erica Stanford and someone else. I
couldn't work it out anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, being crossed with Erica Stanford is never a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'll take that in the day anyway. Hey, Look, so
what's what's going on with this debate with Ruth Richardson?
It seems to have taken on a life of its own.
Who's picking the fight and where are we at with it?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, I'm king to have a proper policy debate. As
I said earlier, enough of these silly, childish gains of
fudgs boxes and the like. Actually, ours is a government
that has a very proud track record of reducing wasteful spending,
of ensuring that spending is a proportion of the economy
is coming down. That we're going to get that Betkasey
bending down. So I get a bit fed up with
(03:32):
the taxpayers unions falsely comparing me to Grant Robertson. I
want the chance to defend our government's record, to put
out there the hard work we've done, the forty three
billion dollars worth of stavings we've delivered, also ensuring that, yes,
and I'm not ashamed of this, we are putting more
investment into the health system, into the education system, into
(03:52):
our defense force, into our police, those priorities for our government.
And the Taxpayers Union may take issue with that, but
I think that's actually what New Zealanders expect from us.
So I want to debate that and debate it in
real terms, not in sudgebox turns.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Is it is it? Because I mean, they'll chalk it
up as a win because they've got under your skin
that they're going to have a debate with you, now,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, I just see this as me saying, you know what,
I am going to stand up for myself and I'm
not going to sit back and let you pop shop
from the sidelines. Come on frontap have the actual debate
on the actual substance. And I'm prepared to do that
pretty readily because I'm ready to go. So, look, we're
having a discussion about when I agree with those of
(04:37):
saidlock Suitsdays a big day from the EW Zealand because
we will be announcing the updated forecasts about how the
economy has been growing and I would like that to
be the focus on Thursday. So we're having a bit
of negotiation about when is the best day to do it.
And look, my thing has been I don't really care
who who's in charge, but let's just make sure all
(05:00):
media can cover it, not just one out.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
When When will it be likely.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Next week? So it's just a matter of negotiating a
date that works for everyone. I'm certainly of the view
that we can do it next week, so we should
do it next week.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I was just thinking about questions and to ask you,
I was wondering if the reason you were keen for
the debate is that you might be sitting on some
good news with Hifu.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, I think anyone who's been listening to the economic
and business commentators over recent times will tell you that suddenly,
in the last little while we have seen an uptick
and some of the economic activity that we look to
so retail spending, residential investment, manufacturing activity, all of those
(05:45):
things are looking pretty positive, and so that bodes well
for GDP on Thursday. The half year updates which I
announced on Tuesday won't capture all of that good news
because it's the economic forecasts get put to bed a
lot earlier in October. But look, I think that New
Zealand is experienced saying what our government has been saying
(06:07):
is going to happen, which is we've all been through
a very tough time together, but we now have stable
inflation and lower interest rates, and we're seeing businesses and
households responding positively to that, which means next year is
going to be a year of more growth, more job
hir incomes, all the things we want to see.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So if I was to put that into a nice
little mixture, there I think you've just told us that
you are thinking that we're going to have some good
stuff to talk about this week.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Well, I think there will be with that GDP number.
I'm very confident based on the forecast ASBT show and
even Treasury, who are knowine for being pretty conservative, think
that that GDP data in the third quarter could be
really high. I mean earlier they were predicting it would
only be zero point four percent. They now think it
will be higher than that of economists to predicting it
(06:57):
could be anywhere between zero point five and one percent
growth for the three months from September. That's positive. That's
a big turnaround for the calendar year as a whole.
New Zealand will have been growing and growing positively, which
is what we need to see. So that will be
good news. But will all be reflected in the half
year update. Unlikely, the half here update will still reflect
(07:18):
the statistics from earlier in the year.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
When you're debating Ruth Richardson and was there someone that
in the past you've looked up to it all.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Look, I think we share some common views, which are,
for example, that governments have a responsibility to keep its
debt under control and I think she, like me, regrets
the fact that under the last government, debt is a
proportion of GDP more than doubled, and we really don't
have much to show for it as a country. And
(07:49):
like rous, I believe that where we can let New
Zealanders keep more of their own money and we can
reduce taxes to achieve that, we should. But I'm also
really proud of the fact that our government's been doing
sensible fiscal consolidation and economic management while also preserving frontline
services for kiwis. And I think that's where the debate lies.
(08:10):
Should we, as the tax Post Union would put it,
have cut services more greatly in order to achieve consolidation earlier?
And I just think this isn't a sprint. This is
something we have to be deliberate about, we have to
be very hard headed about. But we don't need to
do it overnight in a way that causes hardship to
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Some are saying that you're keen for the argument because
it's politically it's quite good to be seen to be
standing up for taxpayers Union and also the person who
delivered the mother of all budgets. Politically, it's just good.
It's like, look, you know, I'm not her.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well obviously I'm not her, but I am a tough
cookie and I will stand up for myself. And I
can tell you all of those who are sort of
overthinking it and saying, oh, this is some big strategy,
some big conspiracy, it's simply me wanting to go out
there and advocate for the policies and positions our government
has taken and backing myself to do that. That's all
it is. And actually it's in the spirit of public debate,
(09:07):
and New Zealanders will make their own minds up. What
are you think about who they agree with?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
What do you think we will get out of this?
What's possibly going to come out of this debate with Ruth?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
What do you think that the average punter will end
up gleaning from this?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Well, I think the average punter, if I'm honest, will
probably be more focused on their Christmas shopping and their
Christmas method So that's the end. For those who are interested,
they will get to hear me set out clearly this
government's plan for getting our blocks back in order, the
track record we have of delivering that so far, the
(09:42):
balance we are striking between achieving that while also increasing
investment in our health system, our defense source and other
critical priorities. And see how that comes together. And then
to hear in a bit more detail when the text
post unions say it's cut spending fast. That may sound good,
but what does that mean in terms of reduced services?
And do New Zealanders really want to see that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Just a couple of things to look at. So her
so I would say public spending is higher than when
Grant Robertson left. Is there a point there that public
spending is higher than when Grant Robertson left.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, that's in what we call nominal terms, and it's
just about every government increases spending and nominal terms, what
we traditionally look at is how does the government's share
of spending look at as a proportion of the economy.
And that's the measure that we're focused on as a government,
that the key English government focused on, and our target
is to get it back to thirty percent of GDP.
(10:36):
For context, Grant Robertson had it up at thirty four
point four percent, so a lot higher, and we've already
in the last year got it down to thirty two
and a half percent as a proportion of the overall economy.
So we do agree that the government shouldn't be spending
too much of its fair share, and that is why
we are targeting that reduction and spending other time.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What about that the core public service, I note the
expression core public service has shrunk by not even one percent.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
What do you say to that, Well, what we have
done is reduced significantly the number of public servants and
back office roles. So that's the likes of policy analysts, managers, administrators.
But at the same time, we have increased, for example,
the numbers of corrections offices, and that's because we are
(11:23):
locking up violent criminals more readily and for longer, and
so we've increased the public sector workforce to respond to that.
We are hiring more teacher ades than those to assist
teachers in our classrooms and those with additional education needs.
So yes, and we've actually hired many more nurses as well.
But when it comes to those back office roles, for
(11:44):
the first time since about twenty seventeen, we have actually
in real terms, reduced the number of people and many
of those more bureaucratic roles.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
If you will, So if you had to give yourself
as I sort of hate these questions, but I did
write it down anyway. But if you had to name
one thing that you you are happy that you've done
this year, what's just you know, when would you give
yourself a really positive score.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well, I'm really proud that in the midst of a
challenging economic time, we patch New Zealand by saying, actually,
we want our businesses to be growing in the future
so they can pay workers more and this can be
a wealthier economy. And when all of the evidence came
in and the advice came in to me saying the
best thing News that could do to target that is
(12:33):
to give them a tax break for their investments, we
found a way to do it, and that investment boased
tax policy, which means that businesses who make an investment
in machinery or equipment or productivity get a discount on
their tax bill. That's going to make a difference, not
just this year or next year. It's not a sugarheard,
it's not a little band aid. It's going to make
(12:54):
a long term difference. It's going to make our economy
wealthier and estimates of our officials will lift wages across
this economy. So I'm proud we did that.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
When do you think there's one thing to say data
and or data? We see the figures that are giving
course for optimism, but when do you think New Zealanders
will actually feel that? Because there's one thing to see
the numbers and go, well, apparently I'm supposed to be
feeling a bit better, but I'm not. When do you
think we're going to feel it?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I totally agree with you. So it's one thing for
me to say, look at all the data points. It's
another thing for families to feel it in their household.
So I think that the first thing is that a
lot of New Zealanders will feel more confident when they
can see that jobs are being created again, and so
they can feel more secure in their own employment and
all of the indicators I'm seeing, so that that effect
(13:40):
will be occuring over the next few months. I think
the other thing is just that sense that better times
lie aheads And I don't blame anyone who says, well,
I'm I'm not going to believe the politicians on that.
I think they need to see that from the independent
experts saying well, our read of the data is that
New Zealand's got some good years ahead of it, and
I think increasingly we will see people saying that over
(14:03):
the next few months. And what that means, I guess
for an average family is you've got a good job
now and if you work hard, you can look forward
to a pay rise and a promotion. This is going
to be an economy that has the thing that needed
to your family, whether it's health services, education services. We've
got wealthier tomorrows than we do yesterday.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Done your Christmas shopping yet?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Oh my gosh, it gives me a headache to even
hear you ask that question. No, no, I haven't, but
I do have some plans in the back of my mind.
There'll be a lot of reference sheltering me this weekend.
But I haven't done some good work already.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It must be difficult because you've got to think what
do I get?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Ruth, Well, look, I've always preferred flowers to maybe maybe
I'll gut or a bunch.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Of flowers, yes, yes, yep, A nice yeah, nice, A
nice bunch of flowers. I think, maybe even the edible type.
You never know. They kill two buses one. Hey, Nichola,
thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks b weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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