June 9, 2024 • 41 mins
This week on Politics Central, Minister Shane Jones has confirmed the Government will lift the ban on oil and gas exploration, as he believes New Zealand's natural gas reserves were declining and sustainable sources like wind, solar and hydro were too inconsistent.
Later, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey joined in to discuss the significance of Men's Health Week.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Me and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
This is the Weekend Collective for Sunday, ninth of June.
Looking forward to your company over the next three hours
and just a marle to be telling you what's going
on with the politics Central, but looking ahead to the
show from four pm. For Health Hub, we're joined by
Kent John's he actually is an ambassador for Men's Health Week,
and that's what we're gonna be a chat about Men's
Health Week, How hard is it to get kit your
(00:59):
guy along to the doctor? And for five o'clock Smart Money,
Hanna McQueen, we can talk about what you do with
wind for money as well as how hard is it
to start a small business? But of course, yeah, the
windfall topic came out of the fact that well, we
had the lotto win for seven people. I think most
of the country, I think most of the people sort
(01:19):
of most of New Zealand probably thought that's not a
bad result. Seven winners of about seven million dollars each.
And we're just going to discuss for the for the
smart money, you know what you should should you do
if you get some sort of windfall, not necessarily that much,
but yeah, but seven million each. Yeah, it was all right.
I won division probably twenty three or something thirty one bucks.
(01:40):
I was mildly happy with that, although it was quite
exciting watching the numbers come up because I got the
first three or something. I got three in a row
and I thought, oh, this is looking good, and then
of course I missed one, and then I missed another.
I was like, so, yeah, there we go. Also good
to see the Blues had a good win last night
over the Injurer, and not necessarily good to see the
(02:01):
Brumbies beat the Highlanders, but perhaps not surprising anyway. It
is now eight minutes past three. Politics Central, So Politics Central,
now we this is what we're going to be doing
this how we're going to be man chat shortly with
Shane Jones. He's got a few things he wants to
(02:22):
talk about, and of course the protests yesterday and the
reversal of the oil and gas band, and after that
we're going to be becoming a chat with Matt Doocey,
he's Minister for Mental Health, along the lines of mental health.
But it was of course in the context of the
fact that it is Men's Health Week as well. We've
were taking you send your text anytime on nine two
nine two, but you can after about three point thirty
(02:45):
ish three thirty five whatever, we'll be taking your calls
on the talkback topic for the afternoon, which is going
to be linked to our chat with Shane Jones about
whether you agree with the reversal of the Orlin and
Gas band and see the protests yesterday, which I don't
mind saying. I mentioned it yesterday severely inconvenience to me,
(03:07):
which is probably their goal. But yeah, do you support
the fast track bill in your response to the protests?
And we're doing talkback not long after around three point thirty,
but right now. Well Shane Jones, he is the Minister
for Resources, Regional Development and Oceans and Fisheries. Busy guy,
isn't he anyway? Shane Jones announced today that the government
(03:28):
will reverse it's bound on oil and gas exploration. He
said that New Zealand's natural gas reserves were declining in
sustainable sources like wind, solar and hydro were too inconsistent.
This announcement and others was anticipated, I guess you could say,
and also met with a backlash yesterdays, thousands of people
gathered in central Auckland to protest the Fast Track Approvals Bill,
(03:51):
among other things. The protesters included former Green Party co
leader Russell Norman, I think, head of Green Works at
Greenpeace now. But for those not up to date, the
government's fast Track Approvals legislation as part of the Coalitions
Get Things Done agenda to shortcut the consenting process for
big projects like roads, mines and wind farms, and it
gives the Infrastructure, Transport and Resources ministers pretty large powers
(04:15):
on those big projects. And of course we've got the
announcement today of the reversal of the oil and gas
ban and joining me to discuss that as the minister
it is how a second just clicking about Niah Shane Jones,
Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Hey may Curer, Greetings for Ura.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
How important is this ban reversal on oil and gas?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
About twenty percent of all our energy needs are related
to gas. As gas declines in New Zealand because of
the chilling effect of Jacinda Durn's announcement in twenty eighteen,
we're relying progressively more on Indonesian coal. So it was
a perverse outcome and I think it speaks to the
(04:56):
sort of juvenile, shallow green thinking that we can somehow
create a better trajectory forward to decarbon ization without actually
future proofing our energy resilience.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
What did you make of the protest yesterday, thousands of
people turning up in Auckland. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well, I have to respect the fact that kiwis of
all stripes and sizes. They're able to come out and
make their feelings and their priorities known to the government.
But there's five million New Zealanders who want to keep
the lights on, who want to keep jobs in New Zealand,
who who along with me, believe that New Zealand is
an environmental Eden of garden, sorry, environmental garden of Eden.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, this notion make that we're living within some sort
of climatic purgatory. I resent it, and it's sort of
spread around by the green sisterhood and I don't like
it at all.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
How do you balance? I mean, is there anything you
can offer? I see some pretty dramatic signs talking about
the corruption of ministers and lack of transparency and it
not being democratic. Is there anything that you and the
government can offer the protesters which might assuage their worries.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, I'm hoping the Select Committee will come back with
some sensible suggestions. But you know, when big projects, I
recall there being a project in two thousand and five
that was going to go a head down around teams
and it was going to be state of the art
wood processing facility, and then some judge long since passed away,
felt that the glint of the roof would interfere with
(06:36):
the amenity values of people climbing a local ridgeline. I mean,
who is that unelected grandee to make that decision that
has such a negative impact on industry and regional development.
Those decisions, I think, if they're a great scale, they
can be safely made by politicians. And if you don't
like it, voters.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Out your press release. Obviously, we're aware of their decline
and investment obviously in oil and gas happens in following
a band, obviously, And here are some comments from the
protest Russell Norman saying there will be no sea bed
mining off the coast of Tartanaki, there will be no
new coal mines in pristine native forests. We will stop them,
(07:19):
just like we stopped the oil exploration companies. We disrupted them.
Until they gave up. Are you concerned that that sort
of rhetoric and what we've seen with protests in the
past disrupting the legal activities of a business or they
would argue otherwise, Are you concerned on that effect on
(07:39):
it getting investors back into the market.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Made us key. We swear at an inflection point, we're
either going to surrender to this green unelected rebel, or
we're going to turbocharge our economy to generate the jobs,
generate the economic dividend, to maintain our first world quality
of life. The more I hear from these green benshees,
(08:07):
the more I fear that they're driving us towards a
Venezuelan slope that will have disastrous impacts on New Zealand
as a destination or international investment or the confidence to
create more domestic investment. Who mandated this group of green
bloodites to enjoy a moral superior position that is beyond
(08:35):
the Kiwis that voted for the current government. We derive
our legitamy, legitimacy. We derive our moral strength from the
fact that we took our ideas into the hearts and
minds and homes of Kiwis and they gave us the
democratic right to run the country. They didn't give the
democratic right to the Green people. They didn't give it
to Freddy the Frog, they didn't give it to the
(08:58):
small screen personalities, Lucy Laws and others who did their
best work in the nineteen nineties. No, they gave it
to the elected government and we're going to get on
with governing the country.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
For the protesters who, of course, protest groups are a
diverse bunch, and there are a lot of New Zealanders
who are just concerned with well a perceived lack of
possible transparency or just the shortcuts that are enabled by
the fast Track Bill. Is there anything that you are
thinking about in respect of the fast Track Bill where
you might think, well, hang on, here are a couple
(09:30):
of concessions we can offer for those who are worried
about just you know, the slash and burn, whiplash decisions
by some ministers.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well, I'm sure the Select Committee will come back with
some suggestions that does improve the bill. I don't want
to cut across them. But mate, don't underestimate how die
our economic situation is. Don't underestimate the large number of
Kiwis that are decamping to Australia. Don't underestimate the damage
(09:59):
that was done to our international reputation by that juvenile,
shallow fast decision that just Cinda announced getting rid of
oil and gas, and now we're reduced to using Indonesian coal.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Of all the.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Things that Megan Woods and just Cinda thought that they
were doing, they have ended up visiting upon New Zealand
the worst possible outcome. I mean, the coal's even worse
than what we've got in New Zealand. But of course
we don't don't use our own coal in New Zealand
because the statutes have been stacked against coal exploration. That's
something else I look forward to boosting.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Is it possible to have constructive dialogue with some of
the protest group? What do you do you sense that,
regardless what you do, you are the devil?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well, you just described the rhetoric to me from Russell
Norman which has Venezuelan in character. I mean, how do
I rationally engage with that? If I've got someone who's
threatening Kiwi firms and overseas firms. We destroyed your confidence once,
we'll do it again. Well, where do you get your
mandate from? And I look forward to matching them blow
(11:04):
for blow, hyperbole for hyperbole, because I believe that Kiwis
Garden Variety Kiwis are on the side of us delivering
and getting things done in our country.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And what are the projects for you that are just
crying out for the fast raight? What's top of your list.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I'd like to see us proceed sooner rather than later
with a dry dock facility up in Marsden Point. I
certainly want to see more energy investments. I think this
scope for more hydroelectricity in New Zealand. I think that
in some areas we should be boosting mining, and certainly
(11:40):
we should see more mining on Stewardship Land which is
falsely identified at as dock land, because we need the
rare earth minerals. I mean, why is it more morally
tolerable to bring them in from other countries that have
a lesser environmental standard, a lesser work safety, child labor standard.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I mean it's almost like you've got this fantasy world
where people are quite hold their breath whilst we bring
these minerals in from another part of the world, undermining
our resilience. Like I said to you that New Zealand.
There's a garden of Eden. We're not some climate purgatory
put around by the green system. We're going to get
over that falseood immediately.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, in terms of once we do get some of
these projects fast tracked, and let's just think of not
just the fast tracks. Sorry, the oil and gas. I mean,
are you are you worried that they are actually going
to be disrupted because protesters can have got ways of
making nuisances themselves and stopping things go ahead.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
What's well, you're yeah, I mean you are accurate in
the sense that Lucy and the others did scale various
cranes or I don't know parts of the superstructure of
oil and gas, and there's no guarantee they won't entirely
unlikely she'll be climbing anywhere in a hurry. But yeah,
I mean they are. They are fomenting that level of
(13:02):
discord and it's disappointing. But unless we have gas at
a reliable level and accessible until twenty fifty, the lights
are not going to stay on in New Zealand. That
will bring a government down. That is what these people
are on about. They're not protesting for the environment, they're
(13:23):
recruiting for the Green Party, and everything that they're doing
is driven to undermine the public confidence in our government.
And I'm going to meet them blow for blow.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And is that effectively what you would say if you
were in front of one of those rallies.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Look, I was invited to go to the annual General
meeting of the Environmental Defense Society and I'm gladly have gone.
No one would have listened to me, so I've ended
up giving I've ended up giving a pre record because
sadly I'm going to be elsewhere. But I don't want
any one of your listeners feeling that these views I'm
sharing with you, I'm afraid or I'm intimidated to share
(14:01):
them with any group of New Zealanders. We have got
to settle this debate. Either we're going to maintain our
economy with some hard headed decisions it gives us resilience,
or we're going to try and keep the lights on
with unicorn kisses and the letters never going to work.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Okay, Shane, thanks very much for your time this afternoon.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Get dere bye bye bye bye.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That's Shane Jones, Minister for Well, he's Minister for Regional
Development Resources and Oceans and Fisheries. And we're going to
be doing talkback after our chat, which is with Matt Bucy,
who was up next. We're going to be doing talkback
on do you actually agree with Shane Jones and you
did you agree with his answers? Did you appreciate his
forthrightness in addressing the concerns which New Zealand's facing Or
(14:45):
are you with the protesters and you think the fast
Track is the devil and indeed is Shane Jones. You
can give us a call on that. We'll be taking calls.
Not yet though, brace yourselves up next. I don't mean
brace you south from Matt Doucy. I mean just just
tie home for a second. Well, we'll be back in
just a moment. The Minister of Mental Health will be
with us. This is News Talk said Be. It's twenty
(15:05):
one minutes past.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Three and welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
This is the Week in Collective Politics, Central Armton Beverage. Welcome.
If you've just joined us, you can check out any
of our hours on our podcast. Just look for the
Week in Collective on iHeartRadio. Right. Well, it's Mental Health Week.
This coming out this week and what we often hear
is men have it so easy. What do they have
to complain about? But as it turns out quite a bit,
because key we men are three times more likely to
(15:46):
than women to die by self harm and as we know,
New Zealand is one of the high rates of that
with our youth in the developed world, and many of
us suffer from mental distress. And by the way, because
I mentioned these themes, if you are listening to this
interview and you think you need some help or there's
anything that comes to mind that you really want to
talk to someone, I always give this, I guess reminded
(16:10):
of people the fantastic one seven three seven service. Please
text or call it if anything that we discuss around
mental health has you thinking about that, maybe you need
some help, so please do that. And as I say,
this week marks the end of Men's Health the start
of Men's Health Week in New Zealand. As men across
New Zealand aim to get to their top are their
biggest and most pol important asset their physical and mental health.
(16:32):
To speak to us about this and a few other things.
As Minister for Mental Health and it is Matt Douce,
good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Hi term happy Men's health Willy, Yes.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes, now you have been. You've been quite open about
your own mental health struggles. How has your personal experience
shaped your approach to your role as Minister for Mental Health.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Well, the first thing I say, it's great they have
a week focused on the blokes. It's I think it's important.
And look, you know, I don't want to generalize because
everyone's experiperiences are different, but I just know for me,
what I experienced just raised my awareness. I was able,
and you know, it wasn't a linear approach. I had
ups and downs, but just over time I became more
(17:18):
aware of my own mental health and how I'm impacted
by it. And like I say, now, for me, it's
just a relationship I have with my mental health. Sometimes
it's not that good, sometimes it's good, and like any relationship,
you just need to work on it. So I think
any awareness are raising awareness raising event like Men's Health
(17:43):
Week is just brilliant. To keep the conversation going.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I guess it would be one of those portfolios where
having a little empathy for people who need the services
of mental health does actually help, doesn't it.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
I mean for me, I had my own experiences and
that led me to work in the mental health field.
And when I decided to give politics a go, I
actually realized that New Zealand was ready to have this
wider conversation. And I think it's a really exciting opportunity.
Speaker 10 (18:11):
Lot.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
All I've done is got a job. Anyone can get
a job. But it's just you know, how I can
maybe play my part in the system to advocate for
better mental health, for maybe get men to talk about
it a bit more.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
How short of the mark are we you in having
the capacity to deal with our country's mental health issues.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Yeah, I think we've got to give ourselves some acknowledgment.
I think we've come a long way. I think as
a country we've really started to break down the stigma
and the barriers. And you think of like Sir John
Kerwin and Mike King and Jazz Thornton's and I think
we have come a long way. Surely we can do
a lot more. And you know, you have a young
(18:53):
generation now that's just so articulates in mental health. They've
got a huge vocabulary, they're more open about it, they
talk about a lot more. But you know there's a
lot of people, probably my age and older that never
had that, So we still need to fight hard to
make sure that people can feel comfortable opening up. And
I think the issue now in New Zealanders we've come
(19:15):
so far allowing people to be more open, but sadly
when they do take that leap of faith to reach out,
quite often that time he support's not there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Do men still struggle more? I don't. I mean, look,
I hate to generalize, but we do generalize when it
comes to genders. Do you think I think it's still
there's a perception that men are it's harder to get
in to talk about our mental health.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Yeah, I think widely that's true. I mean I still
hear stories out where I live here in North Canterbury.
Quite often it's the wife or the partner still ringing
up the GP to make an appointment. But you know,
we have done better and we can still continue to
do better. And I think the issue with men and
it's going to take us well to break it sort
(19:59):
of that macho persona. And I think, you know, we
internalize a lot and we're quite worried potentially what people
think of us if we show a bit of emotion
and vulnerability. But I think we're getting better at it.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Did you get what you need in the budget?
Speaker 9 (20:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:18):
I was quite happy to get the twenty four million
dollars for Gumboot Friday. That'll go a long way to
support young people, about fifteen thousand extra young people who
will access timely support through that initiative, and also a
ten million dollar innovation farm that will help scale up
very innovative community services. I'm really keen to get as
(20:40):
much money as we can out of the beehive to
our grassroots organizations. I'm speaking opening the November conference in
christ Church on Friday. I mean, they just do fantastic
works and I just commend all our NGOs who are
fighting the good fight.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
There was a bit of a conversation around how about
the twenty four million for Mike King's Gumboot Friday. I
actually think it's called I Am Hope, isn't it? The
extra organization Gumbook Friday's particular. There was a little bit
of criticism, Well maybe there was a bit more than
a little that it was sort of dealt out without
much sort of competition for it when there are other
organizations who can point to their need. What do you
(21:19):
say to that?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Yeah, well there's a coalition agreement, so we're honoring that
we're delivering on that in the budget, and I'm more
than open to look at other organizations how we can
resource them accordinatly. Like I say, we've got a publicly
hundred mental health system, but it does have some constraints,
and I think there's real opportunities with pairing up with
our ng and community sectors so they can go on
(21:42):
and do the great work they do.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Hey, Men's Health Week, Any special events or campaigns that
you're anything you're getting involved in this week?
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Yeah, I'm going to open the November event in christ
Church on Friday and many will know November. It's a
great awareness raising and I'm just looking forward to being
involved in a lot of groups who raise whether it
be physical health or mental health. It's important that we
try and break down the barriers. You know, in your
introduction you talked about the increased suicide risk at about
(22:16):
three to one for men in New Zealand. So we've
got a long way to go, but it's weeks like
this we just have an ability to have a bit
of a stock take, have an ability to have a
conversation with someone close to us and I think it's
the conversations that make the most difference.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I don't want to hammer your own privacy on your
own health, but just on a day to day or
week to week or month by month case. You're in
a pretty stressful environment in parliament. Do you have any
particular regular routines or way of looking after your mental health?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Yeah, I mean the first thing i'd say is and
hopefully not drowned out by this rain. I'm out in
the deck in North Canterbury and the rain for the
same real good back down now. But that's a good
Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
Isn't it.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
But look, I don't want to put MPs up on
pedestals yet. We've got high profile jobs. We work long hours,
a bit of stress and pressure, but there's a lot
of jobs like that, and the reality is everyone's quite different.
For some people that can manage a certain amount of
pressure and stress. For other people they prefer to work
in other environments. And I think the main thing for
(23:19):
me is just been aware of when I have been
under a bit of pressure, how I'm responding and for me,
the way I deal with it. I've got young kids
and dislike today it's hanging out with them, and after
I finished talking with you, Tom, I'm on duties for
cooking the chicken roast for dinner to excellent.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Nothing like a bit of cooking for mental health. What
would your message be to any men and women who
are listening to this or a who's thinking with you know,
men's health, but it's women as well. But what would
your message be to anyone who's struggling with their mental
or physical health at the moment?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Say you're normal. We all struggle with it. No one's alone.
And actually, when you do decide to reach out and
if you want to jump online or you mentioned in
the intro tem one seven three seven, there's a lot
of people that are really keen to hear from anyone
who's under a bit of stress. But yeah, definitely reach out.
(24:11):
I mean, sadly, we're there stubbornly high suicide rates. A
lot of them are same day crisis, and we do
know that if we can get to people on the
day and to leap them know that someone's there for them,
we can get through that and support them on the
other side.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh well, hey, look, Matt, I really appreciate your time
this afternoon, and good luck with the roast chicken.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
Oh gooderte bye bye.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And by the way, yes, on a serious note, one
seven three seven, I always mentioned that number. I think
it's a great initiative that was created that you can
text or call one seven three seven if you want
someone to talk about, if you are concerned about your
own mental health, or even I think if you've got
someone else you want to you're concerned about as well
at one seven three seven. And I appreciate Matt Deucey's
candid they he's Minister for mental health and it is
(24:54):
men's health weak, as I say, coming up for the
health Hub, Kent John's is joining us. He's actually an
ambassador for mental health. We're going to be even a
chat about that among other things. Now we are going
to head to a break and it's your turn for talkback.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Hopefully you caught the interview with Shane Jones, and if
you didn't catch that, you will have seen the news
last night with the protests against the fast Track and
the government. Shane Jones has announced today the government is
going to reverse its bound on all and gas exploration.
You heard his comments about that. Do you support him?
Really easy question? Do you support the fast Track Bill.
Do you support Shane Jones and the reversal of all
(25:30):
and gas exploration and your response to the protesters? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two.
But we're taking your calls and that is next. It's
twenty five minutes to four news talk z B. Yes,
welcome back for the weekend collective. So do you support
(25:50):
Shane Jones and the wrestle of the all in gas exploration
and also the fast track bill. The text machine is simmering, steaming,
but we got the calls. We're going to get into
those as well, and I'll try and address as many
of the texts as I can. Mike Gooday, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:07):
Hi Tim. I definitely agree with Shane Jones. So you know,
the greenies idealless and there's nothing wrong with that. But
and unicorn kisses would be nice.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
But we live in the real world.
Speaker 10 (26:20):
And what I do know is that with the world's
population growing and getting bigger and bigger, we need more
food production in terms of vegetables and fruit. And after
studying a subject at school horticulture, I know that in
a greenhouse environment, CO two produces far bigger plants, far
(26:40):
bigger vegetables and that's their main ingredient that they suck
in it.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Yeah, and then when you get it.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it. So you agree with
the oil and gas exploration bound reversal, Yeah, I do. Yeah,
good on you. Hey, thanks Mike. By the way, since
you hear someone drop off the phone line, then give
us call eight hundred and eighty ten and eighty. The
texts are just rolling in quicker than I can read them. Jack, Hello, Hello,
how are you good? Thanks?
Speaker 7 (27:08):
I definitely do support it. Yeah. I've recently gotten back
to New Zealand and the state I see the economy
and is shocking and I think at least anyone has
any better ideas.
Speaker 11 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Look, I just sort of think we have to be pragmatic.
It could be nice to we want to be sort
of as environmentally sustainable as possible. But I saw I
think it was a tweet from David Seymour saying the
irony of seeing Russell Norman reading out his speech on
his mobile phone, which is almost exclusively created by by mining.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
And where do we and I mean, where is that
happening in the world? Ride And you know you've got
to got to look, got to look at those those
countries and see what they're doing and how their economies
are going. And but yeah, short and sweet for me today,
but I do support it.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
On Thanks Jack. We'll keep marling with the calls. John.
Speaker 11 (28:02):
Hello, Yeah, hi Jim, how are you. It's John speaking.
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (28:07):
I support Shane of It's the first time we really
listened to what he's been saying. And I think he's
coming across those you know, really really sensible and more
pragmatic to what we need, like like you. I got
caught up in that protest yesterday and ended up going
around him and to stop as a beer. And after
(28:32):
the protest, all I could see was there placards and
signs and all the all the rubbish bins. And that
didn't even take them away.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh yeah it wasn't they were. They're not very green
about disposing of their signs, are they know?
Speaker 11 (28:44):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, anyway, I get the feeling that there is, generally,
thanks John, just a protest movement where people also just
are unhappy with the government, so anything the government does.
I mean there were Palestine signs as well. I think
that we've seen that increasingly a little bit of mixed messages,
even though obviously the message was pretty clear. Let's be honest,
let's carry on with the conversation Pete today.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Yea, Jimmy, I agree with shame because in the day
is the Greens they got their place, but you've got
to do it in a way. Is that it takes time.
You just can't do it overnight. They give it twenty
five thirty years and we might we might well get
there to the way, I think, but it's going to
take time.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, what did you what did you make of the
protest yesterday?
Speaker 12 (29:30):
Yeah, they got their they got their point of views
and fear enough. But you know, I don't think they
realize we've got to have power. We haven't got the
infrastructure right now. I don't think they see that you
just can't flip the switch off overnight. Give it time
and they might realize, oh we are we are aiming here,
but it's going to it's going to take a while,
and they don't seem they don't seem to grasp grasp
(29:53):
it right now.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah. I think I also think that a lot of
New Zealanders just want a pragmatic approach. Of course, no,
we don't want to keep spewing greenhouse gases forever we
want to, and we are. You know, we've got a
huge amount of it energy is renewable already, but we
we also need to be realistic. Why would we bring
over Indonesian coal and burn that when we've got our
own high quality coal. I mean, that's it seems to
(30:16):
me that we've got this idealism over pragmatism.
Speaker 12 (30:20):
That's right, we've got that.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
We've got it here.
Speaker 12 (30:22):
So you're a color all the way from over there
to here that's got a picture environment that as well.
You know, it doesn't make sense, but use it, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Okay, good on your thanks, Pete. I appreciate your call.
I'm going to do a few more texts and we've
got we're still we've got to spear line there. We're
going to get it onto more calls in the moment
because we've got another We're going to do calls right
up until we sort of wrap the wrap the r up.
Here are a few Hi Tim Shane Jones makes a
lot of sense to me. Juvenile, shallow green thinking, love
it well done that man, I think actually he does
(30:54):
have the gift of hyperbole. But of course hyperbole does
tend to aggravate his opponents as well. But there we go.
That's that's the style, Helen writes. Shane Jones's bang on,
We're going to go broke if we don't do it.
Russell Norman has deluded when he sees most New Zealanders
if most New Zealanders agree agree with him. The Greens
and being government and protesting is not going to win
(31:14):
you any friends. Well I'm not sure they're winning anyone over.
Shane Jones one hundred percent right. Our country needs to
be kick started again, and he's the one to make
it happen. They are all failing, however, not by bringing
the science into the argument and totally debunking. Oh okay
and Gym's against the IPCC climate nonsense. Mike writes. Norway
(31:34):
will soon start mining rare earths and two months ago
up in a new oil field. Sweden exports high quality
iron ore thur the Norwegian port of Navic Narviac whatever.
Denmark is the owner of the largest fleet of merchant
ships in the world. Countries that are the poster childs
of the Greens. The world doesn't owe us a living.
Go Shane, chairs Mike, and look, we'll come back with
(31:59):
more texts. No way I could keep up with them.
But let's we'll do a few more calls, then we'll
do some more texts. We'll just keep mix seen match
until we run out of time. Emily, Hello, Yes, good.
Speaker 13 (32:09):
Good afternoon. Indonesian coal also produces substandard tarseel. Do these
nature protesters want to live in a third world country?
Because you're pretty close to nature living at subsistence level?
And you know, there used to be a program in
the seventies called Cat Weasel, and cat Weasel was an
(32:30):
eleventh century magician and he lived in some subterranean cave
and he called electricity electrickery and the phone a talking bone.
I mean, they're just do they want to go back
and live in primitive time?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Is that John Pertwee? I think it was.
Speaker 13 (32:45):
I'm not sure. I think Richard Carpenter he produced it.
That was Cat Weasel? So you know, do we want
to live like cat Weasel?
Speaker 8 (32:54):
Thanks?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
No, no, thanks, Emily, No, it wasn't John Pertrie. I
don't think anyway. I do remember vaguely that program, even
the name. Anyway, let's carry on, Tom, Hello.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
You go, Jonesy. I am excellent. The these people aren't
in reality to it. You you're allowing mining from and
sub Saharan Africa children to go down to a mind
to get precious earth metals. You hold your nose about that.
(33:26):
But then when we come to get it, no way,
it's they're back back in the dark ages and that's
where they want to send it.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
I think the debate lacks I mean, it's I guess
it seems to be a debate and argument over ideals,
when in fact, sometimes idealism doesn't have much to do
with solving current contemporaneous problems, contemporary problems.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
I can be as idealistic because I I was going
to win Lotto last night. Reality is I didn't and
I'm working today. Oh I did?
Speaker 7 (33:57):
I did.
Speaker 6 (33:57):
You're going to be in the wind. But this is
these people ideals. It doesn't work. At the end of
the day. We can get there. But I mean E
V was a classic example. You are going to drive it.
They meet meet a standard if you do, if you
know your distance, if you're going into an office in
(34:18):
this around trip by all means, but don't tell the
cocky that he's going to have one and you're going
to and then beat us into submissions that you're going
to do it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, Well, my my favorite, my favorite way of putting
it is, I don't think we're ever going to punish
our way into any change of life. We're always going
to innovate to improve our existence rather than punish our way.
And I think that's the problem the protest has got
they want. In fact, I don't even yeah, I don't know.
I must say, I'm I'm not on their side on
that one. But anyway, thanks Tom, cheers, set uh and
(34:48):
it's going to Pete good.
Speaker 8 (34:51):
Cure cam.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, where you go?
Speaker 8 (34:55):
All right, right, I just say if he talked in
the past, So graded to the gimm firs in agreement
with so Jones. But I'm in two minds about the
exploration of war and gas. I mean, yeah, I'm still
a bit of a soft parted moldy And think about
the sea life and the mammals that will be disrupted
(35:16):
by the techniques the methods use for that exploration. And
I think if we could take advantage of the space
program and the satellite to look to go to the surface,
you know, think I'd be in compromise for that.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Okay, good, okay, make sure you don't step into a
petrol driven vehicle, Pete, Otherwise hypocrisy might be popping out there. Tim.
Shane Jones speaks sensibly of the future. That's from Peter.
This one from Cameron says, I can't imagine most, if any,
of the protesters against the fast track bill have read it.
If you read it, you pretty quickly see that FasTrak
(35:51):
is primarily political marketing and reality maybe a bit less
bees and teine than the status quome. That's interesting, we've
but it'll be nowhere near fast. It still requires thorough
analysis and consultation around treaty and mental considerations. It appears
to be a good faith attempt to reach the right
decisions more quickly, not an open door for making bad decisions,
(36:11):
as the protest is clearly imagine. Shane Jones is right
on the Greens will destroy us. Hello, Tim, Really enjoy
listening to Shane Jones. I agree with almost all he says.
Given time, this government can turn the country around. I
have no time for these greeny earheads. And enjoy your programs.
That's from Joy, Hey, Tim, Mister Jones always makes a
lot of sense. Great show. As per another one, he
is pure gold. Shane, Tim can you ask Shane if
(36:33):
the new or on gas legislation will be entrenched so
it doesn't get overturned by another government. Well, no, it
won't be another person. Here's one one negative Shane Jones
that says it wasn't forthrightness, it was arrogance. Shane Jones's
spot on. I support him totally and we'll join them
in seeing common sense return to the environmental argument. Go Shane,
it's getting cold down here in the South. Those protesters
need to grow up, his Laura. Yes, for once someone's
(36:55):
talking common sense. I like what I hear from Shane Jones.
I'm for Shane Jones. Keep it up, says Greg. Thank
god for Shane Jones. This country may not be yet saved. Tim.
I support for the fast track read legislation. It's needed
to help the country out of an almost insolvent position
left by the ide in Hepkins governments. It's from Don.
There are lots more, and I'll go and find a
few while I chat to Jason.
Speaker 9 (37:15):
Hello, good afternoon, mate, really really good. I want to
thank you very much for the questions you asked. They
answered all of my questions. A new head, Shane one,
and and I thought they were very well put and
very pertinent to the nature. At two points, I think
and bring up the out of it one. I think
(37:36):
the national government may have to communicate what they're doing
a little better. Maybe people are getting good decks up,
they're moving fast, they know they have to do They're
trying to do the best for our country. Like Shane said,
we voted them in Labor said the same thing. You
voted us, and we're going to mandate the vaccines and
all this stuff because we are the government. And the
(37:57):
other one is for people to maybe back up or
we But just I think there's too much going on
at once and this is causing you know.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I think you could actually also lay the blame at
the media who just want to play the headline sort
of game, you know, fast protesters thousands turning out, and
I would be fascinated to know how many people have
actually had a look at what the process is for
the first Track bill, and I would say, what's the
expression in kiwism, bugger all.
Speaker 9 (38:31):
But I appreciate that they were good questions, good answers.
I think you either like them or you don't like them.
But I'm for the first track principle. On for the
first track process on principle.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, yeah, good on you. Hey, thanks thanks for your
call mate. Write a few more texts. I'm doing my
best to get through quite a few of them. I
need to just need to scan the pace. Yes, definitely
support Shane. This is why we've heard of the coalition.
What else have we got there? Idealism produces nothing but
(39:04):
negative conflict. Tim, I never voted for Shane Jones, but boy,
he is entertaining and has common sense. I beat you
my losing lotto ticket. I bet you my losing lotto ticket.
That not one person person protesting yesterday voted for this government. Eva.
We've had constant protesters since the Left Block lost the election.
They left do one thing well, and that is protest.
(39:24):
But they supported six years. They supported six years of
opportunity for them and overwhelming New Zealand voted for chain change.
And look pretty much that's the gist of most of
the texts. You might not have heard yours read out,
but I would say it's probably now I'm gonna honestly
reflect on this. I think it is probably the most
(39:48):
overwhelming number of texts we've received at the show in
a very long time, and I would say probably it.
Out of every twenty five texts, twenty four of them
are for Shane Jones. So there's another part of New
Zealand having it. Say it's seven and a half, two
four new Stalk seid b some.
Speaker 10 (40:09):
Now Jess.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Just in case there's anyone of a green persuasion listening
and you're breaking out into a cold sweat, listen to
those some of those texts. Here's a little bit of nature,
just to just to ease your furrough brow, because the text.
If I read any more texts, it'll probably do your heading. Actually,
the one I the one that I sort of select
in the text, was just a sentence when somebody says, look,
pragmatism has to prevail, and I just think that that's it,
(40:48):
and I think he was essentially we are pragmatic about
what we have to do. Anyway, Hey, look that wraps
up politics. Thanks so much. In checking any of the
interviews out, just go to the podcast. We're going to
be back for the Health up next and Kent John's,
who it turns out as an ambassador for Men's Health Week,
is here and we can have a chat about that
and other things. And that is next This is the
(41:09):
Weekend Collective at three and a half minutes to four you.
Speaker 13 (41:15):
I'm Excited, Judy.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk sed BE weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Me and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
This is the Weekend Collective for Sunday, ninth of June.
Looking forward to your company over the next three hours
and just a marle to be telling you what's going
on with the politics Central, but looking ahead to the
show from four pm. For Health Hub, we're joined by
Kent John's he actually is an ambassador for Men's Health Week,
and that's what we're gonna be a chat about Men's
Health Week, How hard is it to get kit your
(00:59):
guy along to the doctor? And for five o'clock Smart Money,
Hanna McQueen, we can talk about what you do with
wind for money as well as how hard is it
to start a small business? But of course, yeah, the
windfall topic came out of the fact that well, we
had the lotto win for seven people. I think most
of the country, I think most of the people sort
(01:19):
of most of New Zealand probably thought that's not a
bad result. Seven winners of about seven million dollars each.
And we're just going to discuss for the for the
smart money, you know what you should should you do
if you get some sort of windfall, not necessarily that much,
but yeah, but seven million each. Yeah, it was all right.
I won division probably twenty three or something thirty one bucks.
(01:40):
I was mildly happy with that, although it was quite
exciting watching the numbers come up because I got the
first three or something. I got three in a row
and I thought, oh, this is looking good, and then
of course I missed one, and then I missed another.
I was like, so, yeah, there we go. Also good
to see the Blues had a good win last night
over the Injurer, and not necessarily good to see the
(02:01):
Brumbies beat the Highlanders, but perhaps not surprising anyway. It
is now eight minutes past three. Politics Central, So Politics Central,
now we this is what we're going to be doing
this how we're going to be man chat shortly with
Shane Jones. He's got a few things he wants to
(02:22):
talk about, and of course the protests yesterday and the
reversal of the oil and gas band, and after that
we're going to be becoming a chat with Matt Doocey,
he's Minister for Mental Health, along the lines of mental health.
But it was of course in the context of the
fact that it is Men's Health Week as well. We've
were taking you send your text anytime on nine two
nine two, but you can after about three point thirty
(02:45):
ish three thirty five whatever, we'll be taking your calls
on the talkback topic for the afternoon, which is going
to be linked to our chat with Shane Jones about
whether you agree with the reversal of the Orlin and
Gas band and see the protests yesterday, which I don't
mind saying. I mentioned it yesterday severely inconvenience to me,
(03:07):
which is probably their goal. But yeah, do you support
the fast track bill in your response to the protests?
And we're doing talkback not long after around three point thirty,
but right now. Well Shane Jones, he is the Minister
for Resources, Regional Development and Oceans and Fisheries. Busy guy,
isn't he anyway? Shane Jones announced today that the government
(03:28):
will reverse it's bound on oil and gas exploration. He
said that New Zealand's natural gas reserves were declining in
sustainable sources like wind, solar and hydro were too inconsistent.
This announcement and others was anticipated, I guess you could say,
and also met with a backlash yesterdays, thousands of people
gathered in central Auckland to protest the Fast Track Approvals Bill,
(03:51):
among other things. The protesters included former Green Party co
leader Russell Norman, I think, head of Green Works at
Greenpeace now. But for those not up to date, the
government's fast Track Approvals legislation as part of the Coalitions
Get Things Done agenda to shortcut the consenting process for
big projects like roads, mines and wind farms, and it
gives the Infrastructure, Transport and Resources ministers pretty large powers
(04:15):
on those big projects. And of course we've got the
announcement today of the reversal of the oil and gas
ban and joining me to discuss that as the minister
it is how a second just clicking about Niah Shane Jones,
Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Hey may Curer, Greetings for Ura.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
How important is this ban reversal on oil and gas?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
About twenty percent of all our energy needs are related
to gas. As gas declines in New Zealand because of
the chilling effect of Jacinda Durn's announcement in twenty eighteen,
we're relying progressively more on Indonesian coal. So it was
a perverse outcome and I think it speaks to the
(04:56):
sort of juvenile, shallow green thinking that we can somehow
create a better trajectory forward to decarbon ization without actually
future proofing our energy resilience.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
What did you make of the protest yesterday, thousands of
people turning up in Auckland. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well, I have to respect the fact that kiwis of
all stripes and sizes. They're able to come out and
make their feelings and their priorities known to the government.
But there's five million New Zealanders who want to keep
the lights on, who want to keep jobs in New Zealand,
who who along with me, believe that New Zealand is
an environmental Eden of garden, sorry, environmental garden of Eden.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, this notion make that we're living within some sort
of climatic purgatory. I resent it, and it's sort of
spread around by the green sisterhood and I don't like
it at all.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
How do you balance? I mean, is there anything you
can offer? I see some pretty dramatic signs talking about
the corruption of ministers and lack of transparency and it
not being democratic. Is there anything that you and the
government can offer the protesters which might assuage their worries.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, I'm hoping the Select Committee will come back with
some sensible suggestions. But you know, when big projects, I
recall there being a project in two thousand and five
that was going to go a head down around teams
and it was going to be state of the art
wood processing facility, and then some judge long since passed away,
felt that the glint of the roof would interfere with
(06:36):
the amenity values of people climbing a local ridgeline. I mean,
who is that unelected grandee to make that decision that
has such a negative impact on industry and regional development.
Those decisions, I think, if they're a great scale, they
can be safely made by politicians. And if you don't
like it, voters.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Out your press release. Obviously, we're aware of their decline
and investment obviously in oil and gas happens in following
a band, obviously, And here are some comments from the
protest Russell Norman saying there will be no sea bed
mining off the coast of Tartanaki, there will be no
new coal mines in pristine native forests. We will stop them,
(07:19):
just like we stopped the oil exploration companies. We disrupted them.
Until they gave up. Are you concerned that that sort
of rhetoric and what we've seen with protests in the
past disrupting the legal activities of a business or they
would argue otherwise, Are you concerned on that effect on
(07:39):
it getting investors back into the market.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Made us key. We swear at an inflection point, we're
either going to surrender to this green unelected rebel, or
we're going to turbocharge our economy to generate the jobs,
generate the economic dividend, to maintain our first world quality
of life. The more I hear from these green benshees,
(08:07):
the more I fear that they're driving us towards a
Venezuelan slope that will have disastrous impacts on New Zealand
as a destination or international investment or the confidence to
create more domestic investment. Who mandated this group of green
bloodites to enjoy a moral superior position that is beyond
(08:35):
the Kiwis that voted for the current government. We derive
our legitamy, legitimacy. We derive our moral strength from the
fact that we took our ideas into the hearts and
minds and homes of Kiwis and they gave us the
democratic right to run the country. They didn't give the
democratic right to the Green people. They didn't give it
to Freddy the Frog, they didn't give it to the
(08:58):
small screen personalities, Lucy Laws and others who did their
best work in the nineteen nineties. No, they gave it
to the elected government and we're going to get on
with governing the country.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
For the protesters who, of course, protest groups are a
diverse bunch, and there are a lot of New Zealanders
who are just concerned with well a perceived lack of
possible transparency or just the shortcuts that are enabled by
the fast Track Bill. Is there anything that you are
thinking about in respect of the fast Track Bill where
you might think, well, hang on, here are a couple
(09:30):
of concessions we can offer for those who are worried
about just you know, the slash and burn, whiplash decisions
by some ministers.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well, I'm sure the Select Committee will come back with
some suggestions that does improve the bill. I don't want
to cut across them. But mate, don't underestimate how die
our economic situation is. Don't underestimate the large number of
Kiwis that are decamping to Australia. Don't underestimate the damage
(09:59):
that was done to our international reputation by that juvenile,
shallow fast decision that just Cinda announced getting rid of
oil and gas, and now we're reduced to using Indonesian coal.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Of all the.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Things that Megan Woods and just Cinda thought that they
were doing, they have ended up visiting upon New Zealand
the worst possible outcome. I mean, the coal's even worse
than what we've got in New Zealand. But of course
we don't don't use our own coal in New Zealand
because the statutes have been stacked against coal exploration. That's
something else I look forward to boosting.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Is it possible to have constructive dialogue with some of
the protest group? What do you do you sense that,
regardless what you do, you are the devil?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well, you just described the rhetoric to me from Russell
Norman which has Venezuelan in character. I mean, how do
I rationally engage with that? If I've got someone who's
threatening Kiwi firms and overseas firms. We destroyed your confidence once,
we'll do it again. Well, where do you get your
mandate from? And I look forward to matching them blow
(11:04):
for blow, hyperbole for hyperbole, because I believe that Kiwis
Garden Variety Kiwis are on the side of us delivering
and getting things done in our country.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And what are the projects for you that are just
crying out for the fast raight? What's top of your list.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I'd like to see us proceed sooner rather than later
with a dry dock facility up in Marsden Point. I
certainly want to see more energy investments. I think this
scope for more hydroelectricity in New Zealand. I think that
in some areas we should be boosting mining, and certainly
(11:40):
we should see more mining on Stewardship Land which is
falsely identified at as dock land, because we need the
rare earth minerals. I mean, why is it more morally
tolerable to bring them in from other countries that have
a lesser environmental standard, a lesser work safety, child labor standard.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I mean it's almost like you've got this fantasy world
where people are quite hold their breath whilst we bring
these minerals in from another part of the world, undermining
our resilience. Like I said to you that New Zealand.
There's a garden of Eden. We're not some climate purgatory
put around by the green system. We're going to get
over that falseood immediately.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, in terms of once we do get some of
these projects fast tracked, and let's just think of not
just the fast tracks. Sorry, the oil and gas. I mean,
are you are you worried that they are actually going
to be disrupted because protesters can have got ways of
making nuisances themselves and stopping things go ahead.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
What's well, you're yeah, I mean you are accurate in
the sense that Lucy and the others did scale various
cranes or I don't know parts of the superstructure of
oil and gas, and there's no guarantee they won't entirely
unlikely she'll be climbing anywhere in a hurry. But yeah,
I mean they are. They are fomenting that level of
(13:02):
discord and it's disappointing. But unless we have gas at
a reliable level and accessible until twenty fifty, the lights
are not going to stay on in New Zealand. That
will bring a government down. That is what these people
are on about. They're not protesting for the environment, they're
(13:23):
recruiting for the Green Party, and everything that they're doing
is driven to undermine the public confidence in our government.
And I'm going to meet them blow for blow.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And is that effectively what you would say if you
were in front of one of those rallies.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Look, I was invited to go to the annual General
meeting of the Environmental Defense Society and I'm gladly have gone.
No one would have listened to me, so I've ended
up giving I've ended up giving a pre record because
sadly I'm going to be elsewhere. But I don't want
any one of your listeners feeling that these views I'm
sharing with you, I'm afraid or I'm intimidated to share
(14:01):
them with any group of New Zealanders. We have got
to settle this debate. Either we're going to maintain our
economy with some hard headed decisions it gives us resilience,
or we're going to try and keep the lights on
with unicorn kisses and the letters never going to work.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Okay, Shane, thanks very much for your time this afternoon.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Get dere bye bye bye bye.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That's Shane Jones, Minister for Well, he's Minister for Regional
Development Resources and Oceans and Fisheries. And we're going to
be doing talkback after our chat, which is with Matt Bucy,
who was up next. We're going to be doing talkback
on do you actually agree with Shane Jones and you
did you agree with his answers? Did you appreciate his
forthrightness in addressing the concerns which New Zealand's facing Or
(14:45):
are you with the protesters and you think the fast
Track is the devil and indeed is Shane Jones. You
can give us a call on that. We'll be taking calls.
Not yet though, brace yourselves up next. I don't mean
brace you south from Matt Doucy. I mean just just
tie home for a second. Well, we'll be back in
just a moment. The Minister of Mental Health will be
with us. This is News Talk said Be. It's twenty
(15:05):
one minutes past.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Three and welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
This is the Week in Collective Politics, Central Armton Beverage. Welcome.
If you've just joined us, you can check out any
of our hours on our podcast. Just look for the
Week in Collective on iHeartRadio. Right. Well, it's Mental Health Week.
This coming out this week and what we often hear
is men have it so easy. What do they have
to complain about? But as it turns out quite a bit,
because key we men are three times more likely to
(15:46):
than women to die by self harm and as we know,
New Zealand is one of the high rates of that
with our youth in the developed world, and many of
us suffer from mental distress. And by the way, because
I mentioned these themes, if you are listening to this
interview and you think you need some help or there's
anything that comes to mind that you really want to
talk to someone, I always give this, I guess reminded
(16:10):
of people the fantastic one seven three seven service. Please
text or call it if anything that we discuss around
mental health has you thinking about that, maybe you need
some help, so please do that. And as I say,
this week marks the end of Men's Health the start
of Men's Health Week in New Zealand. As men across
New Zealand aim to get to their top are their
biggest and most pol important asset their physical and mental health.
(16:32):
To speak to us about this and a few other things.
As Minister for Mental Health and it is Matt Douce,
good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Hi term happy Men's health Willy, Yes.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes, now you have been. You've been quite open about
your own mental health struggles. How has your personal experience
shaped your approach to your role as Minister for Mental Health.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Well, the first thing I say, it's great they have
a week focused on the blokes. It's I think it's important.
And look, you know, I don't want to generalize because
everyone's experiperiences are different, but I just know for me,
what I experienced just raised my awareness. I was able,
and you know, it wasn't a linear approach. I had
ups and downs, but just over time I became more
(17:18):
aware of my own mental health and how I'm impacted
by it. And like I say, now, for me, it's
just a relationship I have with my mental health. Sometimes
it's not that good, sometimes it's good, and like any relationship,
you just need to work on it. So I think
any awareness are raising awareness raising event like Men's Health
(17:43):
Week is just brilliant. To keep the conversation going.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I guess it would be one of those portfolios where
having a little empathy for people who need the services
of mental health does actually help, doesn't it.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
I mean for me, I had my own experiences and
that led me to work in the mental health field.
And when I decided to give politics a go, I
actually realized that New Zealand was ready to have this
wider conversation. And I think it's a really exciting opportunity.
Speaker 10 (18:11):
Lot.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
All I've done is got a job. Anyone can get
a job. But it's just you know, how I can
maybe play my part in the system to advocate for
better mental health, for maybe get men to talk about
it a bit more.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
How short of the mark are we you in having
the capacity to deal with our country's mental health issues.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Yeah, I think we've got to give ourselves some acknowledgment.
I think we've come a long way. I think as
a country we've really started to break down the stigma
and the barriers. And you think of like Sir John
Kerwin and Mike King and Jazz Thornton's and I think
we have come a long way. Surely we can do
a lot more. And you know, you have a young
(18:53):
generation now that's just so articulates in mental health. They've
got a huge vocabulary, they're more open about it, they
talk about a lot more. But you know there's a
lot of people, probably my age and older that never
had that, So we still need to fight hard to
make sure that people can feel comfortable opening up. And
I think the issue now in New Zealanders we've come
(19:15):
so far allowing people to be more open, but sadly
when they do take that leap of faith to reach out,
quite often that time he support's not there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Do men still struggle more? I don't. I mean, look,
I hate to generalize, but we do generalize when it
comes to genders. Do you think I think it's still
there's a perception that men are it's harder to get
in to talk about our mental health.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Yeah, I think widely that's true. I mean I still
hear stories out where I live here in North Canterbury.
Quite often it's the wife or the partner still ringing
up the GP to make an appointment. But you know,
we have done better and we can still continue to
do better. And I think the issue with men and
it's going to take us well to break it sort
(19:59):
of that macho persona. And I think, you know, we
internalize a lot and we're quite worried potentially what people
think of us if we show a bit of emotion
and vulnerability. But I think we're getting better at it.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Did you get what you need in the budget?
Speaker 9 (20:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:18):
I was quite happy to get the twenty four million
dollars for Gumboot Friday. That'll go a long way to
support young people, about fifteen thousand extra young people who
will access timely support through that initiative, and also a
ten million dollar innovation farm that will help scale up
very innovative community services. I'm really keen to get as
(20:40):
much money as we can out of the beehive to
our grassroots organizations. I'm speaking opening the November conference in
christ Church on Friday. I mean, they just do fantastic
works and I just commend all our NGOs who are
fighting the good fight.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
There was a bit of a conversation around how about
the twenty four million for Mike King's Gumboot Friday. I
actually think it's called I Am Hope, isn't it? The
extra organization Gumbook Friday's particular. There was a little bit
of criticism, Well maybe there was a bit more than
a little that it was sort of dealt out without
much sort of competition for it when there are other
organizations who can point to their need. What do you
(21:19):
say to that?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Yeah, well there's a coalition agreement, so we're honoring that
we're delivering on that in the budget, and I'm more
than open to look at other organizations how we can
resource them accordinatly. Like I say, we've got a publicly
hundred mental health system, but it does have some constraints,
and I think there's real opportunities with pairing up with
our ng and community sectors so they can go on
(21:42):
and do the great work they do.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Hey, Men's Health Week, Any special events or campaigns that
you're anything you're getting involved in this week?
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Yeah, I'm going to open the November event in christ
Church on Friday and many will know November. It's a
great awareness raising and I'm just looking forward to being
involved in a lot of groups who raise whether it
be physical health or mental health. It's important that we
try and break down the barriers. You know, in your
introduction you talked about the increased suicide risk at about
(22:16):
three to one for men in New Zealand. So we've
got a long way to go, but it's weeks like
this we just have an ability to have a bit
of a stock take, have an ability to have a
conversation with someone close to us and I think it's
the conversations that make the most difference.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I don't want to hammer your own privacy on your
own health, but just on a day to day or
week to week or month by month case. You're in
a pretty stressful environment in parliament. Do you have any
particular regular routines or way of looking after your mental health?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Yeah, I mean the first thing i'd say is and
hopefully not drowned out by this rain. I'm out in
the deck in North Canterbury and the rain for the
same real good back down now. But that's a good
Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
Isn't it.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
But look, I don't want to put MPs up on
pedestals yet. We've got high profile jobs. We work long hours,
a bit of stress and pressure, but there's a lot
of jobs like that, and the reality is everyone's quite different.
For some people that can manage a certain amount of
pressure and stress. For other people they prefer to work
in other environments. And I think the main thing for
(23:19):
me is just been aware of when I have been
under a bit of pressure, how I'm responding and for me,
the way I deal with it. I've got young kids
and dislike today it's hanging out with them, and after
I finished talking with you, Tom, I'm on duties for
cooking the chicken roast for dinner to excellent.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Nothing like a bit of cooking for mental health. What
would your message be to any men and women who
are listening to this or a who's thinking with you know,
men's health, but it's women as well. But what would
your message be to anyone who's struggling with their mental
or physical health at the moment?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Say you're normal. We all struggle with it. No one's alone.
And actually, when you do decide to reach out and
if you want to jump online or you mentioned in
the intro tem one seven three seven, there's a lot
of people that are really keen to hear from anyone
who's under a bit of stress. But yeah, definitely reach out.
(24:11):
I mean, sadly, we're there stubbornly high suicide rates. A
lot of them are same day crisis, and we do
know that if we can get to people on the
day and to leap them know that someone's there for them,
we can get through that and support them on the
other side.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh well, hey, look, Matt, I really appreciate your time
this afternoon, and good luck with the roast chicken.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
Oh gooderte bye bye.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And by the way, yes, on a serious note, one
seven three seven, I always mentioned that number. I think
it's a great initiative that was created that you can
text or call one seven three seven if you want
someone to talk about, if you are concerned about your
own mental health, or even I think if you've got
someone else you want to you're concerned about as well
at one seven three seven. And I appreciate Matt Deucey's
candid they he's Minister for mental health and it is
(24:54):
men's health weak, as I say, coming up for the
health Hub, Kent John's is joining us. He's actually an
ambassador for mental health. We're going to be even a
chat about that among other things. Now we are going
to head to a break and it's your turn for talkback.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Hopefully you caught the interview with Shane Jones, and if
you didn't catch that, you will have seen the news
last night with the protests against the fast Track and
the government. Shane Jones has announced today the government is
going to reverse its bound on all and gas exploration.
You heard his comments about that. Do you support him?
Really easy question? Do you support the fast Track Bill.
Do you support Shane Jones and the reversal of all
(25:30):
and gas exploration and your response to the protesters? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two.
But we're taking your calls and that is next. It's
twenty five minutes to four news talk z B. Yes,
welcome back for the weekend collective. So do you support
(25:50):
Shane Jones and the wrestle of the all in gas exploration
and also the fast track bill. The text machine is simmering, steaming,
but we got the calls. We're going to get into
those as well, and I'll try and address as many
of the texts as I can. Mike Gooday, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:07):
Hi Tim. I definitely agree with Shane Jones. So you know,
the greenies idealless and there's nothing wrong with that. But
and unicorn kisses would be nice.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
But we live in the real world.
Speaker 10 (26:20):
And what I do know is that with the world's
population growing and getting bigger and bigger, we need more
food production in terms of vegetables and fruit. And after
studying a subject at school horticulture, I know that in
a greenhouse environment, CO two produces far bigger plants, far
(26:40):
bigger vegetables and that's their main ingredient that they suck
in it.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Yeah, and then when you get it.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it. So you agree with
the oil and gas exploration bound reversal, Yeah, I do. Yeah,
good on you. Hey, thanks Mike. By the way, since
you hear someone drop off the phone line, then give
us call eight hundred and eighty ten and eighty. The
texts are just rolling in quicker than I can read them. Jack, Hello, Hello,
how are you good? Thanks?
Speaker 7 (27:08):
I definitely do support it. Yeah. I've recently gotten back
to New Zealand and the state I see the economy
and is shocking and I think at least anyone has
any better ideas.
Speaker 11 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Look, I just sort of think we have to be pragmatic.
It could be nice to we want to be sort
of as environmentally sustainable as possible. But I saw I
think it was a tweet from David Seymour saying the
irony of seeing Russell Norman reading out his speech on
his mobile phone, which is almost exclusively created by by mining.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
And where do we and I mean, where is that
happening in the world? Ride And you know you've got
to got to look, got to look at those those
countries and see what they're doing and how their economies
are going. And but yeah, short and sweet for me today,
but I do support it.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
On Thanks Jack. We'll keep marling with the calls. John.
Speaker 11 (28:02):
Hello, Yeah, hi Jim, how are you. It's John speaking.
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (28:07):
I support Shane of It's the first time we really
listened to what he's been saying. And I think he's
coming across those you know, really really sensible and more
pragmatic to what we need, like like you. I got
caught up in that protest yesterday and ended up going
around him and to stop as a beer. And after
(28:32):
the protest, all I could see was there placards and
signs and all the all the rubbish bins. And that
didn't even take them away.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh yeah it wasn't they were. They're not very green
about disposing of their signs, are they know?
Speaker 11 (28:44):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, anyway, I get the feeling that there is, generally,
thanks John, just a protest movement where people also just
are unhappy with the government, so anything the government does.
I mean there were Palestine signs as well. I think
that we've seen that increasingly a little bit of mixed messages,
even though obviously the message was pretty clear. Let's be honest,
let's carry on with the conversation Pete today.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Yea, Jimmy, I agree with shame because in the day
is the Greens they got their place, but you've got
to do it in a way. Is that it takes time.
You just can't do it overnight. They give it twenty
five thirty years and we might we might well get
there to the way, I think, but it's going to
take time.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, what did you what did you make of the
protest yesterday?
Speaker 12 (29:30):
Yeah, they got their they got their point of views
and fear enough. But you know, I don't think they
realize we've got to have power. We haven't got the
infrastructure right now. I don't think they see that you
just can't flip the switch off overnight. Give it time
and they might realize, oh we are we are aiming here,
but it's going to it's going to take a while,
and they don't seem they don't seem to grasp grasp
(29:53):
it right now.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah. I think I also think that a lot of
New Zealanders just want a pragmatic approach. Of course, no,
we don't want to keep spewing greenhouse gases forever we
want to, and we are. You know, we've got a
huge amount of it energy is renewable already, but we
we also need to be realistic. Why would we bring
over Indonesian coal and burn that when we've got our
own high quality coal. I mean, that's it seems to
(30:16):
me that we've got this idealism over pragmatism.
Speaker 12 (30:20):
That's right, we've got that.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
We've got it here.
Speaker 12 (30:22):
So you're a color all the way from over there
to here that's got a picture environment that as well.
You know, it doesn't make sense, but use it, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Okay, good on your thanks, Pete. I appreciate your call.
I'm going to do a few more texts and we've
got we're still we've got to spear line there. We're
going to get it onto more calls in the moment
because we've got another We're going to do calls right
up until we sort of wrap the wrap the r up.
Here are a few Hi Tim Shane Jones makes a
lot of sense to me. Juvenile, shallow green thinking, love
it well done that man, I think actually he does
(30:54):
have the gift of hyperbole. But of course hyperbole does
tend to aggravate his opponents as well. But there we go.
That's that's the style, Helen writes. Shane Jones's bang on,
We're going to go broke if we don't do it.
Russell Norman has deluded when he sees most New Zealanders
if most New Zealanders agree agree with him. The Greens
and being government and protesting is not going to win
(31:14):
you any friends. Well I'm not sure they're winning anyone over.
Shane Jones one hundred percent right. Our country needs to
be kick started again, and he's the one to make
it happen. They are all failing, however, not by bringing
the science into the argument and totally debunking. Oh okay
and Gym's against the IPCC climate nonsense. Mike writes. Norway
(31:34):
will soon start mining rare earths and two months ago
up in a new oil field. Sweden exports high quality
iron ore thur the Norwegian port of Navic Narviac whatever.
Denmark is the owner of the largest fleet of merchant
ships in the world. Countries that are the poster childs
of the Greens. The world doesn't owe us a living.
Go Shane, chairs Mike, and look, we'll come back with
(31:59):
more texts. No way I could keep up with them.
But let's we'll do a few more calls, then we'll
do some more texts. We'll just keep mix seen match
until we run out of time. Emily, Hello, Yes, good.
Speaker 13 (32:09):
Good afternoon. Indonesian coal also produces substandard tarseel. Do these
nature protesters want to live in a third world country?
Because you're pretty close to nature living at subsistence level?
And you know, there used to be a program in
the seventies called Cat Weasel, and cat Weasel was an
(32:30):
eleventh century magician and he lived in some subterranean cave
and he called electricity electrickery and the phone a talking bone.
I mean, they're just do they want to go back
and live in primitive time?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Is that John Pertwee? I think it was.
Speaker 13 (32:45):
I'm not sure. I think Richard Carpenter he produced it.
That was Cat Weasel? So you know, do we want
to live like cat Weasel?
Speaker 8 (32:54):
Thanks?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
No, no, thanks, Emily, No, it wasn't John Pertrie. I
don't think anyway. I do remember vaguely that program, even
the name. Anyway, let's carry on, Tom, Hello.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
You go, Jonesy. I am excellent. The these people aren't
in reality to it. You you're allowing mining from and
sub Saharan Africa children to go down to a mind
to get precious earth metals. You hold your nose about that.
(33:26):
But then when we come to get it, no way,
it's they're back back in the dark ages and that's
where they want to send it.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
I think the debate lacks I mean, it's I guess
it seems to be a debate and argument over ideals,
when in fact, sometimes idealism doesn't have much to do
with solving current contemporaneous problems, contemporary problems.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
I can be as idealistic because I I was going
to win Lotto last night. Reality is I didn't and
I'm working today. Oh I did?
Speaker 7 (33:57):
I did.
Speaker 6 (33:57):
You're going to be in the wind. But this is
these people ideals. It doesn't work. At the end of
the day. We can get there. But I mean E
V was a classic example. You are going to drive it.
They meet meet a standard if you do, if you
know your distance, if you're going into an office in
(34:18):
this around trip by all means, but don't tell the
cocky that he's going to have one and you're going
to and then beat us into submissions that you're going
to do it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, Well, my my favorite, my favorite way of putting
it is, I don't think we're ever going to punish
our way into any change of life. We're always going
to innovate to improve our existence rather than punish our way.
And I think that's the problem the protest has got
they want. In fact, I don't even yeah, I don't know.
I must say, I'm I'm not on their side on
that one. But anyway, thanks Tom, cheers, set uh and
(34:48):
it's going to Pete good.
Speaker 8 (34:51):
Cure cam.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, where you go?
Speaker 8 (34:55):
All right, right, I just say if he talked in
the past, So graded to the gimm firs in agreement
with so Jones. But I'm in two minds about the
exploration of war and gas. I mean, yeah, I'm still
a bit of a soft parted moldy And think about
the sea life and the mammals that will be disrupted
(35:16):
by the techniques the methods use for that exploration. And
I think if we could take advantage of the space
program and the satellite to look to go to the surface,
you know, think I'd be in compromise for that.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Okay, good, okay, make sure you don't step into a
petrol driven vehicle, Pete, Otherwise hypocrisy might be popping out there. Tim.
Shane Jones speaks sensibly of the future. That's from Peter.
This one from Cameron says, I can't imagine most, if any,
of the protesters against the fast track bill have read it.
If you read it, you pretty quickly see that FasTrak
(35:51):
is primarily political marketing and reality maybe a bit less
bees and teine than the status quome. That's interesting, we've
but it'll be nowhere near fast. It still requires thorough
analysis and consultation around treaty and mental considerations. It appears
to be a good faith attempt to reach the right
decisions more quickly, not an open door for making bad decisions,
(36:11):
as the protest is clearly imagine. Shane Jones is right
on the Greens will destroy us. Hello, Tim, Really enjoy
listening to Shane Jones. I agree with almost all he says.
Given time, this government can turn the country around. I
have no time for these greeny earheads. And enjoy your programs.
That's from Joy, Hey, Tim, Mister Jones always makes a
lot of sense. Great show. As per another one, he
is pure gold. Shane, Tim can you ask Shane if
(36:33):
the new or on gas legislation will be entrenched so
it doesn't get overturned by another government. Well, no, it
won't be another person. Here's one one negative Shane Jones
that says it wasn't forthrightness, it was arrogance. Shane Jones's
spot on. I support him totally and we'll join them
in seeing common sense return to the environmental argument. Go Shane,
it's getting cold down here in the South. Those protesters
need to grow up, his Laura. Yes, for once someone's
(36:55):
talking common sense. I like what I hear from Shane Jones.
I'm for Shane Jones. Keep it up, says Greg. Thank
god for Shane Jones. This country may not be yet saved. Tim.
I support for the fast track read legislation. It's needed
to help the country out of an almost insolvent position
left by the ide in Hepkins governments. It's from Don.
There are lots more, and I'll go and find a
few while I chat to Jason.
Speaker 9 (37:15):
Hello, good afternoon, mate, really really good. I want to
thank you very much for the questions you asked. They
answered all of my questions. A new head, Shane one,
and and I thought they were very well put and
very pertinent to the nature. At two points, I think
and bring up the out of it one. I think
(37:36):
the national government may have to communicate what they're doing
a little better. Maybe people are getting good decks up,
they're moving fast, they know they have to do They're
trying to do the best for our country. Like Shane said,
we voted them in Labor said the same thing. You
voted us, and we're going to mandate the vaccines and
all this stuff because we are the government. And the
(37:57):
other one is for people to maybe back up or
we But just I think there's too much going on
at once and this is causing you know.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I think you could actually also lay the blame at
the media who just want to play the headline sort
of game, you know, fast protesters thousands turning out, and
I would be fascinated to know how many people have
actually had a look at what the process is for
the first Track bill, and I would say, what's the
expression in kiwism, bugger all.
Speaker 9 (38:31):
But I appreciate that they were good questions, good answers.
I think you either like them or you don't like them.
But I'm for the first track principle. On for the
first track process on principle.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, yeah, good on you. Hey, thanks thanks for your
call mate. Write a few more texts. I'm doing my
best to get through quite a few of them. I
need to just need to scan the pace. Yes, definitely
support Shane. This is why we've heard of the coalition.
What else have we got there? Idealism produces nothing but
(39:04):
negative conflict. Tim, I never voted for Shane Jones, but boy,
he is entertaining and has common sense. I beat you
my losing lotto ticket. I bet you my losing lotto ticket.
That not one person person protesting yesterday voted for this government. Eva.
We've had constant protesters since the Left Block lost the election.
They left do one thing well, and that is protest.
(39:24):
But they supported six years. They supported six years of
opportunity for them and overwhelming New Zealand voted for chain change.
And look pretty much that's the gist of most of
the texts. You might not have heard yours read out,
but I would say it's probably now I'm gonna honestly
reflect on this. I think it is probably the most
(39:48):
overwhelming number of texts we've received at the show in
a very long time, and I would say probably it.
Out of every twenty five texts, twenty four of them
are for Shane Jones. So there's another part of New
Zealand having it. Say it's seven and a half, two
four new Stalk seid b some.
Speaker 10 (40:09):
Now Jess.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Just in case there's anyone of a green persuasion listening
and you're breaking out into a cold sweat, listen to
those some of those texts. Here's a little bit of nature,
just to just to ease your furrough brow, because the text.
If I read any more texts, it'll probably do your heading. Actually,
the one I the one that I sort of select
in the text, was just a sentence when somebody says, look,
pragmatism has to prevail, and I just think that that's it,
(40:48):
and I think he was essentially we are pragmatic about
what we have to do. Anyway, Hey, look that wraps
up politics. Thanks so much. In checking any of the
interviews out, just go to the podcast. We're going to
be back for the Health up next and Kent John's,
who it turns out as an ambassador for Men's Health Week,
is here and we can have a chat about that
and other things. And that is next This is the
(41:09):
Weekend Collective at three and a half minutes to four you.
Speaker 13 (41:15):
I'm Excited, Judy.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
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