June 15, 2025 • 23 mins
Alan Thorp is the Group Chief Executive Officer of Habitat for Humanity New Zealand, a role he’s held since 2021. With a background as a Chartered Accountant and a Master’s in Theology from Regent College in Vancouver, Alan brings a unique mix of head and heart to his leadership. Since joining Habitat in 2007, he’s taken on key roles including CFO, COO, Deputy CEO, and National Director. Alan is passionate about building stronger communities and leads efforts to create safe, stable housing for families across Aotearoa and the Pacific.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk SEDB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Real Conversation,
Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen on News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Today. Welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen and I
hope you're listening to this somewhere warm and safe, which
is not something everyone in New Zealand gets to enjoy.
And an organization that's been putting New Zealanders and good
houses for over thirty years is Habitat for Humanity, one
of the most respected charities in the world and group
CEO of Habitat joins me tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome Ellan thorpe Hi. John, it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've always been a fan of Habitat for Humanity. Not
not quite enough to be able to come along and
volunteer for your projects, but you've been going for quite
a while in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We have been going for over thirty year in New
Zealand and across the world almost fifty years.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, And what's the main goal of Habitat?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
The main goal that the vision is a world where
everyone has a decent place to live. Yes, and our
mission statement is to bring people together to build homes,
communities and hope.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And how do you do that.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We do that by partnering with others mostly and so
in New Zealand for the last thirty years, we provide homes,
we make homes habitable, and we also advocate for fair
and decent housing.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, so that's three things. How do you do the
first thing? How do you get people into houses? Do
you build them?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, we used to build them, not so much. Now
we can build them again, obviously, you know, with New
Zealand's housing crisis, it's much more difficult now to do that.
So most recently we've had the government funding of the
Progressive home Ownership Fund and that's enabled us to have
a fifty percent loan interest three for fifteen years and
that's enabled us to get families into homes. Whether we
build them or buy them off the market or develop
(02:02):
them ourselves. You know, it doesn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that must be a bit of a change for
the way habitat does things. Like my my mental image
of habitat is bunches of volunteer tradees and near tradees
heading off and driving nails and having a good time,
getting sun burnt building a house for some family, and
certainly that's the way it started in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
With health and safety concerns. In fact, we can't do
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That's correat. Yeah, it's too difficult. Okay, I know you
still do stuff in the Pacific. Do you seend volunteers
up there perhaps to build the things we do?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Seend some volunteers up into the Pacific, although the Pacific
has actually become quite a large piece of work for
habitat in New Zealand. We have a government contract with
the New Zealand governments for nine and a half million
dollars over five years for working Fijis arm or on thim.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, well, perhaps we'll talk a bit more about that.
But coming back to you talked about a progressive How
does that work?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so it's effectively a rent then buy model, and
our family's rent for the first five years and in
that rent time they accumulated deposit and at that point
in time we'll offer of them a long term sale
and pictures agreement. So effectively, like you and I would
buy a property, we'd have ninety day settlement that have
a further five years to set all their property so
they can increase. They can go on in the same
(03:18):
way they've been doing, keep accumulating the deposit until I
get to the point where they can go to a
commercial bank and then they can pay us up. Then
we transfer title.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Okay, it sounds like you're almost a bank.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We're not a bank, but we we are able to
effectively give a through the government funding, we're able to
effectively give pass on that no interest costs.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So you've got cupboards and the government coffers there that
you can perhaps go and tap on. And yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So we've had a we've had a good partnership with
the government through the Progressive for Much fund. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, Now your background is an accountant. That's great, and
couldn't you see this working for everybody that wants to
get into a home?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We do, of course, Habitat believes this is this product
or this this way of working is very good. Eventually
that loan gets paid back to the government. It's worth
a little bit less than it was fifteen years ago
after it's paid back. But we believe that this is
something that should be scaled.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Okay, So this is something that you're wanting to do
you're wanting to actually see not just the people that
you're working with, you'd love to see everybody being able
to access.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
We do, I mean fundamentally, we believe that housing, you know,
good housing is the foundation for a functioning society. And
when you look at our society in New Zealand and
parts of it falling down, I think housing's got quite
a lot to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Alan Thorpe is the CEO of Habitat for Humanity and
we're talking about getting roofs over the houses, roofs over
the heads of people that might not otherwise be able
to afford them. How do you pick you talk about
our families, How does one become one of your families?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, so it's a good, good question. We effectively have
a system where we choose families on their future potential.
So you still have to have a certain level of
income and you have to have an aspiration and that
aspiration needs to be tested as well. So how do
(05:15):
you test and aspiration? Well, that's why we have the
rent period. Effectively, families go into the house and while
they're renting, they are aspiring to owning that home, and
that means that they will pay their rent on time,
they'll inform us of the maintenance that needs to happen.
They'll continue to get their own finances into a place
where they can actually get more goodrudy themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So you provide a few hoops and hurdles for people
to get through and over do some people fail?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, so we've had about ninety seven percent success rate.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's a better way to look at it. I suppose
it generally works. And do you think it is that
hurdles and hoops that actually makes them more aspirational rather
than actually putting a stumbling block in front of people's.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Certainly I think yeah. I mean this product's not for everybody,
and certainly some people just need to will rent and
home ownership's not for everybody. But for those who are
able and have their aspiration but don't have the means,
then you know we can help them in that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, So do you actually as well as just taking
care and picking people and then sort of giving them
this test period, do you provide other support and things.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, we do, so we kind of do a wrap
around service. We partner with them through that whole process,
so the whole ten year period and effectively, as all
humans you know, it's habitat for humanity. We understand humans
have ups and downs. Things happen to people, so we'll
be more lenient than say, you know, a bank would
be around people's personal circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So if someone loses their job or is some type
of ruction that disrupts their earning ability, what would Habitat
do in that situation.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Well, I suppose to just be a bit more lenient. Wait,
wait our time, and eventually, you know, eventually the numbers
still have to stack up. They still need to be
able to pay the amount on accountant. We're an accountant,
I mean, but I mean that's the way the world works, right, Yeah,
So yeah, we will work with them to enable them
and every way we can. And that's why, you know,
the people that we choose generally have this aspiration, are
(07:13):
passionate about it. They want to do it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Okay, I think you also mentioned about making homes more habitable. Habitable. Yep,
that's a tricky word to get my lazy lips around.
More Habitat works on making things habitable. How do you
do that?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So we've got a number of programs in New Zealand
running that do that. One of them is from the
ben Z and they've given us a five million dollars
interest free so we can work with homeowners who don't
have enough cash to actually do the maintenance on their home.
So we can do something up to twenty thousand dollars
alone that's interest free over five years. And you know
that makes a huge difference to some people's houses. People
(07:50):
you think, oh, well, they own the home, they should
be able to afford their maintenance. No, that's not correct.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So yeah, So what would be a typical instance or story. Well,
there's lots, lots and lots of stories. I mean, one
of the most important stories for me was going to
a house and I'll call her Jane, her house in
South Auckland, and her.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
House she inherited it, but didn't have any money, who
did any maintenance. She had three young children who were
going to the local school. I walked in that house
and I walked over floorboards because there was planks, because
the floorboards were completely rotten after her hot water cylinder
had leaked and the particle board had rotted away. There
was mold all over the walls, the curtains were moldy.
(08:38):
It was an absolute unbelievable situation. For me to walk into.
You're not going to stay healthy in her home. You're
not going to stay healthy like that. So under this program,
we were able to fix her floors, upgrade her bathroom,
put in the secondhand kitchen, take the mold off the walls,
help her to apply for the government's insulation program so
(09:00):
that she could insulation in her roof. We then fitted
out curtains from our curtain bank and it changed house
and change your life. And then we've got now a stable,
warm environment for her children as they get educated.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Okay, and you say that people pay back of like
an advance, but you've got it interest free. You can
you can extend it interest.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
We can extend it interest free. So they've just got
to pay back the principle.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, all right, well that sounds like that sounds like
a grand thing.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
It's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Okay, any other services you offer you this is the
this is the putting putting people into a house and
renting until they can own repairing houses. How else do
you help out families?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I mean, our last thing was, you know, promoting or
advocating for fair and decent housing. So okay, we do
we do advocate to government around policy change and ultimately,
you know, that's what we're looking for is a systems
change so that actually the systems will enable more people
to be in stable affordable housing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
What biggest change? What would be the biggest changes? Are
there particular hurdles to housing that you think that government
could affex pretty quickly?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I think, you know, there's a lot of hurdles. There's
there's no silver bullet for the housing and affordability, but
it's small things. So one of the things which is
I think should be on the radar is inclusionary housing
a zoning. And at the moment, what do you mean
by that, Well, that means that if a developer is
doing a development, they need to put aside a certain
amount of money or property in order to deliver affordable
(10:30):
housing into a development.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I must admit I grumble when I go past housing
developments and they've got a big sign up exclusive and
I'm wondering, who are they excluding?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And I just think that you know, making housing areas
more diverse, it avoids I don't know if it get
aisation is a term or something, but just just lumping
people together, just spreading people out throughout yes, I think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I totally agree. Yeah, and I mean this inclusionary housing
works really well in Queenstown Lakes. The number of it
is that at law it's ambiguous about whether it's legal
or not. So so central government can step in here
and can change the legislation to ensure that councils, local
territorial authorities can actually use this mechanism all around New Zealand.
(11:24):
At the moment, they're not able to do that because
they're too scared that it's not legal.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Okay, Now, when you get back to your office tomorrow,
what are some of the big things that are on
your plate for habitat at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, so I suppose advocating to the government for more assistance,
and that's probably one of the biggest things on our plate.
I mean, we're finishing the delivery of our contracts under
the Progressive ownership, so that's also really important for us
to do. And you know the ben Z funding, we've
also we've also had funding fee for service contracts that
(11:57):
are potentially coming to an end week ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, it's a busy week and we're coming to the
end of his first half of the end of view.
After the break I want to talk a bit more
about how to become a CEO of Habitat for Humanity.
You've been doing it for a while now, and I
know you're going to be carry on doing it. But
what sort of prepares a person for this type of role?
What do you need in your head and heart to
head up an organization like this? In other words, we're
(12:21):
going to be talking to Alan Thorpe about Alan Thorpe
after this break. This is real life on news Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on News
Talk ZEDB. Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cowen
talking with Alan Thorpe, who's CEO of Habitat for Humanity.
And as always, I asked my guest to pick some music.
And what are we listening to?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You make your ringing beautiful from King of Country.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Right, and why did you pick that? It's a beautiful song.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It's the one of the theme songs of the movie
Unsung Hero and that movie is set in the eighties
and that's the same time that I was a teenager.
And it's a story about a woman who has a
husband who has a business failure and they have to
move to the United state it's in order for them
to get work. But she is just such a resilient
(13:12):
person and she's the unsung hero. That's the title of
the movie. And you know, these lyrics are quite amazing
because in the sense, you know, the serendipity prayer is that,
you know, grant me the serenity to accept the things
that I cannot change, and the wisdom, the courage Lord
to change the things that I can, and the wisdom
(13:33):
to know the difference. And yeah, I think that's very important.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
The fact that you can pull that up out of
your memory means that that type of thinking is very
important to you.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
It is very important to me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, okay, So there are things that you can't change,
and that must be things like the poverty in the world.
But there are things you can change, which is people's
response to it.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Response to it, well, I suppose, and I personalize its
probably a bit war to myself. I mean, there's probably
things in myself that I realize that I can't change,
and I just need to accept those and for the
things that I can change, yes, I need additional help
to do that. And you know, and I think as
we grow older, that's the wisdom to know the difference
(14:14):
one of those things.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Now, I know that you're a charted accountant and you
worked a long time as an accountant and business and things,
but you've also been looking through your CV. You've also
got two theology degrees. So obviously faith is more than
just a Sunday thing for you. It's something which is
pretty deep and central to your life.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It is very deep and central to my life. And
you know it does certainly connectp with my work habitat
for humanity. And I suppose my faith says to me
that actually all of humanity matters, All of humanity matters,
and it's everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Okay, So you're a Christian organization.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We are a Christian organization in our roots, but we
are certainly we don't prosetize, we don't discriminate on any
basis whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Okay. So people don't have to take a little box.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
People, we don't have to take a little box.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay. And how about when you go to the government,
both first of all with your megaphone to try and
get them to change policies, and also with you cap
in hand to try and ask money for them, how
do they respond to you as a Christian organization. Does
that make them look somewhat a scance or does it
Habitat built some track record there, Habitat's.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Got a credibility globally, which you know means that actually
the government can be agnostic about that. It doesn't doesnt
make any difference to them because in the end, we're
not proselytizing, we're not putting ourselves out there, we're not
asking people to become Christians. But we're only doing We're
all we're doing is trying to bring people together to
help humanity.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right now. Part of that study you did was in
Canada at Region College, which I know specializes in taking
people that already have some training, like you as an accountant,
and making it applicable to the needs of the world.
Is that right, That's correct.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, rather than training people to be pastes of churches,
I think their emphasis is to train people to be
the best accountants, the best marketers, the best nurses and
make a real difference in our workplace. And you know,
I can keep going on here because you know, as
a leader of the organization, character is really important. I mean,
the way that you love respect other human people is
(16:21):
incredibly important. And you know, you can have leaders who
do the opposite of that and it makes life hell
going to work.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, how do they see people? Then?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think they see you know, other leaders potentially don't
recognize the value of other humans and therefore or see
themselves as probably above them.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Right yeah, okay, So does that mean that working for
Habitat has a you have a sort of a pastoral
as well as a business type look out out look
for them.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That's correct, But I would probably say, you know, in
any CEO role, as someone told me this at Regent College,
actually that actually any CEO role is kind of a
pastoral role because you actually have to look after your people.
If you want your people to deliver whatever it is,
whatever the objective of the entity is, you need to
be pastoral to them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Okay, I wish a few more leaders sort of take
that message on rather than looking out to see who's
got a limp to so they see who to shoot.
So your faith, it obviously applies in your workplace, it
applies personally as well. It helps you handle things like
I know, for instance, you lost your mum last year,
and that would be how does faith kicking kick in
(17:33):
during times like that?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah? So it's a really good question, and yes I
did lose my mum. Yeah. I think in the end,
our faith for me is that God loves me. I
know that God loves me and that makes me worthwhile
as a person, and he values me and he asked
(17:58):
me to value others. So I don't get it right
all the time. And I think that's, you know, part
of these songs, you know, give us the wisdom to
actually be humble enough to go actually we get it wrong,
and I think that's the piece around. You know, forgiveness
and acknowledgment and humility are really important attributes, and I
(18:22):
suppose faith brings those into my situations as a father,
as a CEO, as a leader in lots of different spaces.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, now, I think both your mom and dad were
involved in some type of ministry work like you're doing,
but they were doing it overseas.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
They were doing it in Papua New Guinea and my
dad did literacy work and taught people how to read
and write in Papua New Guinea. Mum was sort of
there as well as a dental nurse, but also helping
as a nurse, so you know, they worked with a
community for approximately one community they worked with for seven
and a half years. We went back there about seven
years ago when my mom and dad were alive. We
(19:00):
celebrated the fact that mum and dad had been there.
It was an incredible experience. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So this makes you, I think what they call a
mish kid.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, kid.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Now I've known enough to know that some that experience
polarizes them against things of faith, and for others they
catch it. Now the fact that you're heading up a
Christian ministry and also married to a nurse, that's great.
So obviously their example was pretty strong in your life.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Very very strong in my life, and hopefully I can
try and be that example to my children too.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So what things are you going to deliberately try to
pass on to your kids? Then?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I want to pass on an open faith faith. It
means that it's not a set of rules. It's actually
about a relationship with God and a relationship with others,
and you know, having people around our table, being hospitable
actually that's really important, and accepting other humans for who
they are because God accepts them.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Okay, So rather than just making sure that you're only
mixing of people that match your narrow prescription of what
the Christian is.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So you know, so both Liby and I are very open,
which is.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Great, fantastic. Now, coming back to Habitat with Humanity, why
don't you do a plug for it? How do you
people listening are probably quite enthusiastic about the idea of
getting people into warm safe houses in a way that
sounds very just y. Yeah, yeah, So how's the people help?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, probably the biggest way you can help us to
buy donating money. And you know, our website is habitat
dot org dot MZ and you can go to the
donate button there. We have got this big program in
the Pacific, and the wonderful thing about that is that
you know, for every dollar that you give, the government
will give four more dollars. So if you give ten dollars,
then we're going to get fifty dollars forty more dollars
(20:46):
from the government where our programming work and Fijism or
on toime.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So you'll probably get a rebate on that one dollar
that you gave.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
As well, and you will also get a rebate.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
On the tax I can see your accountant's heart leaping
with joy at that. And so what about your you've
got some secondhand shops.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We've got about twenty four restores across the country. The
store we call them restores. I mean it's partly that
recycle restoring motif. But yes, if you've got junk and
stuff that you want to give away, that really helps
us because bring it to our store, we'll turn it
into hard cash and that will help us support our
work here in New Zealand and overseas.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And you can always go and shop there too, And
probably you're looking for volunteers to work there.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We have a lot of volunteers and we can't run
those shops without volunteers, so that's another really good way
to help us.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Okay, Allen, it's been great talking with you and learning
more about Habitat for Humanity. You've got another song that
you've picked. What have you got there?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
This is Dave Dobbins Pour the Wine. And you know,
my sister gave her the Big Wine por I'm not
a big wine poorer, but my sister gave me this
CD back in two thousand and five when we were
in Canadas that studying, and it became a kind of
a we played it over and over again. This one
particularly is wonderful because it's you know, the lyrics are
(22:01):
all about a brokenness, and at the end there's this
lyrics says, you know, wash your feet in the river
and pour the wine. And you know, from a Christian perspective,
I have always thought of that as actually having communion
and or doing the eucharists and thinking, actually, God does
wash my feet and I can pour that one.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Well, Ellen, it's been inspiring talking to someone whose faith
doesn't just stay up in heaven but reaches down to
the ground. And it's been and I wish you all
the best for yourself and for habitat. This is real life.
I'm John Cowen. You're listening to news Storks, he'd be.
I'm looking forward to being back again with you next
Sunday night. Let's listen to Pull the Wine from Dave Dobbin.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Broa O the one from the River Turn the River.
(23:32):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk SEDB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Real Conversation,
Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen on News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Today. Welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen and I
hope you're listening to this somewhere warm and safe, which
is not something everyone in New Zealand gets to enjoy.
And an organization that's been putting New Zealanders and good
houses for over thirty years is Habitat for Humanity, one
of the most respected charities in the world and group
CEO of Habitat joins me tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome Ellan thorpe Hi. John, it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've always been a fan of Habitat for Humanity. Not
not quite enough to be able to come along and
volunteer for your projects, but you've been going for quite
a while in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We have been going for over thirty year in New
Zealand and across the world almost fifty years.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, And what's the main goal of Habitat?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
The main goal that the vision is a world where
everyone has a decent place to live. Yes, and our
mission statement is to bring people together to build homes,
communities and hope.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And how do you do that.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We do that by partnering with others mostly and so
in New Zealand for the last thirty years, we provide homes,
we make homes habitable, and we also advocate for fair
and decent housing.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, so that's three things. How do you do the
first thing? How do you get people into houses? Do
you build them?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, we used to build them, not so much. Now
we can build them again, obviously, you know, with New
Zealand's housing crisis, it's much more difficult now to do that.
So most recently we've had the government funding of the
Progressive home Ownership Fund and that's enabled us to have
a fifty percent loan interest three for fifteen years and
that's enabled us to get families into homes. Whether we
build them or buy them off the market or develop
(02:02):
them ourselves. You know, it doesn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that must be a bit of a change for
the way habitat does things. Like my my mental image
of habitat is bunches of volunteer tradees and near tradees
heading off and driving nails and having a good time,
getting sun burnt building a house for some family, and
certainly that's the way it started in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
With health and safety concerns. In fact, we can't do
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That's correat. Yeah, it's too difficult. Okay, I know you
still do stuff in the Pacific. Do you seend volunteers
up there perhaps to build the things we do?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Seend some volunteers up into the Pacific, although the Pacific
has actually become quite a large piece of work for
habitat in New Zealand. We have a government contract with
the New Zealand governments for nine and a half million
dollars over five years for working Fijis arm or on thim.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, well, perhaps we'll talk a bit more about that.
But coming back to you talked about a progressive How
does that work?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so it's effectively a rent then buy model, and
our family's rent for the first five years and in
that rent time they accumulated deposit and at that point
in time we'll offer of them a long term sale
and pictures agreement. So effectively, like you and I would
buy a property, we'd have ninety day settlement that have
a further five years to set all their property so
they can increase. They can go on in the same
(03:18):
way they've been doing, keep accumulating the deposit until I
get to the point where they can go to a
commercial bank and then they can pay us up. Then
we transfer title.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Okay, it sounds like you're almost a bank.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We're not a bank, but we we are able to
effectively give a through the government funding, we're able to
effectively give pass on that no interest costs.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So you've got cupboards and the government coffers there that
you can perhaps go and tap on. And yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So we've had a we've had a good partnership with
the government through the Progressive for Much fund. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, Now your background is an accountant. That's great, and
couldn't you see this working for everybody that wants to
get into a home?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We do, of course, Habitat believes this is this product
or this this way of working is very good. Eventually
that loan gets paid back to the government. It's worth
a little bit less than it was fifteen years ago
after it's paid back. But we believe that this is
something that should be scaled.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Okay, So this is something that you're wanting to do
you're wanting to actually see not just the people that
you're working with, you'd love to see everybody being able
to access.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
We do, I mean fundamentally, we believe that housing, you know,
good housing is the foundation for a functioning society. And
when you look at our society in New Zealand and
parts of it falling down, I think housing's got quite
a lot to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Alan Thorpe is the CEO of Habitat for Humanity and
we're talking about getting roofs over the houses, roofs over
the heads of people that might not otherwise be able
to afford them. How do you pick you talk about
our families, How does one become one of your families?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, so it's a good, good question. We effectively have
a system where we choose families on their future potential.
So you still have to have a certain level of
income and you have to have an aspiration and that
aspiration needs to be tested as well. So how do
(05:15):
you test and aspiration? Well, that's why we have the
rent period. Effectively, families go into the house and while
they're renting, they are aspiring to owning that home, and
that means that they will pay their rent on time,
they'll inform us of the maintenance that needs to happen.
They'll continue to get their own finances into a place
where they can actually get more goodrudy themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So you provide a few hoops and hurdles for people
to get through and over do some people fail?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, so we've had about ninety seven percent success rate.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's a better way to look at it. I suppose
it generally works. And do you think it is that
hurdles and hoops that actually makes them more aspirational rather
than actually putting a stumbling block in front of people's.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Certainly I think yeah. I mean this product's not for everybody,
and certainly some people just need to will rent and
home ownership's not for everybody. But for those who are
able and have their aspiration but don't have the means,
then you know we can help them in that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, So do you actually as well as just taking
care and picking people and then sort of giving them
this test period, do you provide other support and things.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, we do, so we kind of do a wrap
around service. We partner with them through that whole process,
so the whole ten year period and effectively, as all
humans you know, it's habitat for humanity. We understand humans
have ups and downs. Things happen to people, so we'll
be more lenient than say, you know, a bank would
be around people's personal circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So if someone loses their job or is some type
of ruction that disrupts their earning ability, what would Habitat
do in that situation.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Well, I suppose to just be a bit more lenient. Wait,
wait our time, and eventually, you know, eventually the numbers
still have to stack up. They still need to be
able to pay the amount on accountant. We're an accountant,
I mean, but I mean that's the way the world works, right, Yeah,
So yeah, we will work with them to enable them
and every way we can. And that's why, you know,
the people that we choose generally have this aspiration, are
(07:13):
passionate about it. They want to do it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Okay, I think you also mentioned about making homes more habitable. Habitable. Yep,
that's a tricky word to get my lazy lips around.
More Habitat works on making things habitable. How do you
do that?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So we've got a number of programs in New Zealand
running that do that. One of them is from the
ben Z and they've given us a five million dollars
interest free so we can work with homeowners who don't
have enough cash to actually do the maintenance on their home.
So we can do something up to twenty thousand dollars
alone that's interest free over five years. And you know
that makes a huge difference to some people's houses. People
(07:50):
you think, oh, well, they own the home, they should
be able to afford their maintenance. No, that's not correct.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So yeah, So what would be a typical instance or story. Well,
there's lots, lots and lots of stories. I mean, one
of the most important stories for me was going to
a house and I'll call her Jane, her house in
South Auckland, and her.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
House she inherited it, but didn't have any money, who
did any maintenance. She had three young children who were
going to the local school. I walked in that house
and I walked over floorboards because there was planks, because
the floorboards were completely rotten after her hot water cylinder
had leaked and the particle board had rotted away. There
was mold all over the walls, the curtains were moldy.
(08:38):
It was an absolute unbelievable situation. For me to walk into.
You're not going to stay healthy in her home. You're
not going to stay healthy like that. So under this program,
we were able to fix her floors, upgrade her bathroom,
put in the secondhand kitchen, take the mold off the walls,
help her to apply for the government's insulation program so
(09:00):
that she could insulation in her roof. We then fitted
out curtains from our curtain bank and it changed house
and change your life. And then we've got now a stable,
warm environment for her children as they get educated.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Okay, and you say that people pay back of like
an advance, but you've got it interest free. You can
you can extend it interest.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
We can extend it interest free. So they've just got
to pay back the principle.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, all right, well that sounds like that sounds like
a grand thing.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
It's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Okay, any other services you offer you this is the
this is the putting putting people into a house and
renting until they can own repairing houses. How else do
you help out families?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I mean, our last thing was, you know, promoting or
advocating for fair and decent housing. So okay, we do
we do advocate to government around policy change and ultimately,
you know, that's what we're looking for is a systems
change so that actually the systems will enable more people
to be in stable affordable housing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
What biggest change? What would be the biggest changes? Are
there particular hurdles to housing that you think that government
could affex pretty quickly?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I think, you know, there's a lot of hurdles. There's
there's no silver bullet for the housing and affordability, but
it's small things. So one of the things which is
I think should be on the radar is inclusionary housing
a zoning. And at the moment, what do you mean
by that, Well, that means that if a developer is
doing a development, they need to put aside a certain
amount of money or property in order to deliver affordable
(10:30):
housing into a development.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I must admit I grumble when I go past housing
developments and they've got a big sign up exclusive and
I'm wondering, who are they excluding?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And I just think that you know, making housing areas
more diverse, it avoids I don't know if it get
aisation is a term or something, but just just lumping
people together, just spreading people out throughout yes, I think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I totally agree. Yeah, and I mean this inclusionary housing
works really well in Queenstown Lakes. The number of it
is that at law it's ambiguous about whether it's legal
or not. So so central government can step in here
and can change the legislation to ensure that councils, local
territorial authorities can actually use this mechanism all around New Zealand.
(11:24):
At the moment, they're not able to do that because
they're too scared that it's not legal.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Okay, Now, when you get back to your office tomorrow,
what are some of the big things that are on
your plate for habitat at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, so I suppose advocating to the government for more assistance,
and that's probably one of the biggest things on our plate.
I mean, we're finishing the delivery of our contracts under
the Progressive ownership, so that's also really important for us
to do. And you know the ben Z funding, we've
also we've also had funding fee for service contracts that
(11:57):
are potentially coming to an end week ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, it's a busy week and we're coming to the
end of his first half of the end of view.
After the break I want to talk a bit more
about how to become a CEO of Habitat for Humanity.
You've been doing it for a while now, and I
know you're going to be carry on doing it. But
what sort of prepares a person for this type of role?
What do you need in your head and heart to
head up an organization like this? In other words, we're
(12:21):
going to be talking to Alan Thorpe about Alan Thorpe
after this break. This is real life on news Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on News
Talk ZEDB. Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cowen
talking with Alan Thorpe, who's CEO of Habitat for Humanity.
And as always, I asked my guest to pick some music.
And what are we listening to?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You make your ringing beautiful from King of Country.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Right, and why did you pick that? It's a beautiful song.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It's the one of the theme songs of the movie
Unsung Hero and that movie is set in the eighties
and that's the same time that I was a teenager.
And it's a story about a woman who has a
husband who has a business failure and they have to
move to the United state it's in order for them
to get work. But she is just such a resilient
(13:12):
person and she's the unsung hero. That's the title of
the movie. And you know, these lyrics are quite amazing
because in the sense, you know, the serendipity prayer is that,
you know, grant me the serenity to accept the things
that I cannot change, and the wisdom, the courage Lord
to change the things that I can, and the wisdom
(13:33):
to know the difference. And yeah, I think that's very important.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
The fact that you can pull that up out of
your memory means that that type of thinking is very
important to you.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
It is very important to me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, okay, So there are things that you can't change,
and that must be things like the poverty in the world.
But there are things you can change, which is people's
response to it.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Response to it, well, I suppose, and I personalize its
probably a bit war to myself. I mean, there's probably
things in myself that I realize that I can't change,
and I just need to accept those and for the
things that I can change, yes, I need additional help
to do that. And you know, and I think as
we grow older, that's the wisdom to know the difference
(14:14):
one of those things.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Now, I know that you're a charted accountant and you
worked a long time as an accountant and business and things,
but you've also been looking through your CV. You've also
got two theology degrees. So obviously faith is more than
just a Sunday thing for you. It's something which is
pretty deep and central to your life.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It is very deep and central to my life. And
you know it does certainly connectp with my work habitat
for humanity. And I suppose my faith says to me
that actually all of humanity matters, All of humanity matters,
and it's everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Okay, So you're a Christian organization.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We are a Christian organization in our roots, but we
are certainly we don't prosetize, we don't discriminate on any
basis whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Okay. So people don't have to take a little box.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
People, we don't have to take a little box.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay. And how about when you go to the government,
both first of all with your megaphone to try and
get them to change policies, and also with you cap
in hand to try and ask money for them, how
do they respond to you as a Christian organization. Does
that make them look somewhat a scance or does it
Habitat built some track record there, Habitat's.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Got a credibility globally, which you know means that actually
the government can be agnostic about that. It doesn't doesnt
make any difference to them because in the end, we're
not proselytizing, we're not putting ourselves out there, we're not
asking people to become Christians. But we're only doing We're
all we're doing is trying to bring people together to
help humanity.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right now. Part of that study you did was in
Canada at Region College, which I know specializes in taking
people that already have some training, like you as an accountant,
and making it applicable to the needs of the world.
Is that right, That's correct.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, rather than training people to be pastes of churches,
I think their emphasis is to train people to be
the best accountants, the best marketers, the best nurses and
make a real difference in our workplace. And you know,
I can keep going on here because you know, as
a leader of the organization, character is really important. I mean,
the way that you love respect other human people is
(16:21):
incredibly important. And you know, you can have leaders who
do the opposite of that and it makes life hell
going to work.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, how do they see people? Then?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think they see you know, other leaders potentially don't
recognize the value of other humans and therefore or see
themselves as probably above them.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Right yeah, okay, So does that mean that working for
Habitat has a you have a sort of a pastoral
as well as a business type look out out look
for them.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That's correct, But I would probably say, you know, in
any CEO role, as someone told me this at Regent College,
actually that actually any CEO role is kind of a
pastoral role because you actually have to look after your people.
If you want your people to deliver whatever it is,
whatever the objective of the entity is, you need to
be pastoral to them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Okay, I wish a few more leaders sort of take
that message on rather than looking out to see who's
got a limp to so they see who to shoot.
So your faith, it obviously applies in your workplace, it
applies personally as well. It helps you handle things like
I know, for instance, you lost your mum last year,
and that would be how does faith kicking kick in
(17:33):
during times like that?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah? So it's a really good question, and yes I
did lose my mum. Yeah. I think in the end,
our faith for me is that God loves me. I
know that God loves me and that makes me worthwhile
as a person, and he values me and he asked
(17:58):
me to value others. So I don't get it right
all the time. And I think that's, you know, part
of these songs, you know, give us the wisdom to
actually be humble enough to go actually we get it wrong,
and I think that's the piece around. You know, forgiveness
and acknowledgment and humility are really important attributes, and I
(18:22):
suppose faith brings those into my situations as a father,
as a CEO, as a leader in lots of different spaces.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, now, I think both your mom and dad were
involved in some type of ministry work like you're doing,
but they were doing it overseas.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
They were doing it in Papua New Guinea and my
dad did literacy work and taught people how to read
and write in Papua New Guinea. Mum was sort of
there as well as a dental nurse, but also helping
as a nurse, so you know, they worked with a
community for approximately one community they worked with for seven
and a half years. We went back there about seven
years ago when my mom and dad were alive. We
(19:00):
celebrated the fact that mum and dad had been there.
It was an incredible experience. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So this makes you, I think what they call a
mish kid.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, kid.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Now I've known enough to know that some that experience
polarizes them against things of faith, and for others they
catch it. Now the fact that you're heading up a
Christian ministry and also married to a nurse, that's great.
So obviously their example was pretty strong in your life.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Very very strong in my life, and hopefully I can
try and be that example to my children too.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So what things are you going to deliberately try to
pass on to your kids? Then?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I want to pass on an open faith faith. It
means that it's not a set of rules. It's actually
about a relationship with God and a relationship with others,
and you know, having people around our table, being hospitable
actually that's really important, and accepting other humans for who
they are because God accepts them.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Okay, So rather than just making sure that you're only
mixing of people that match your narrow prescription of what
the Christian is.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So you know, so both Liby and I are very open,
which is.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Great, fantastic. Now, coming back to Habitat with Humanity, why
don't you do a plug for it? How do you
people listening are probably quite enthusiastic about the idea of
getting people into warm safe houses in a way that
sounds very just y. Yeah, yeah, So how's the people help?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, probably the biggest way you can help us to
buy donating money. And you know, our website is habitat
dot org dot MZ and you can go to the
donate button there. We have got this big program in
the Pacific, and the wonderful thing about that is that
you know, for every dollar that you give, the government
will give four more dollars. So if you give ten dollars,
then we're going to get fifty dollars forty more dollars
(20:46):
from the government where our programming work and Fijism or
on toime.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So you'll probably get a rebate on that one dollar
that you gave.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
As well, and you will also get a rebate.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
On the tax I can see your accountant's heart leaping
with joy at that. And so what about your you've
got some secondhand shops.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We've got about twenty four restores across the country. The
store we call them restores. I mean it's partly that
recycle restoring motif. But yes, if you've got junk and
stuff that you want to give away, that really helps
us because bring it to our store, we'll turn it
into hard cash and that will help us support our
work here in New Zealand and overseas.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And you can always go and shop there too, And
probably you're looking for volunteers to work there.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We have a lot of volunteers and we can't run
those shops without volunteers, so that's another really good way
to help us.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Okay, Allen, it's been great talking with you and learning
more about Habitat for Humanity. You've got another song that
you've picked. What have you got there?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
This is Dave Dobbins Pour the Wine. And you know,
my sister gave her the Big Wine por I'm not
a big wine poorer, but my sister gave me this
CD back in two thousand and five when we were
in Canadas that studying, and it became a kind of
a we played it over and over again. This one
particularly is wonderful because it's you know, the lyrics are
(22:01):
all about a brokenness, and at the end there's this
lyrics says, you know, wash your feet in the river
and pour the wine. And you know, from a Christian perspective,
I have always thought of that as actually having communion
and or doing the eucharists and thinking, actually, God does
wash my feet and I can pour that one.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Well, Ellen, it's been inspiring talking to someone whose faith
doesn't just stay up in heaven but reaches down to
the ground. And it's been and I wish you all
the best for yourself and for habitat. This is real life.
I'm John Cowen. You're listening to news Storks, he'd be.
I'm looking forward to being back again with you next
Sunday night. Let's listen to Pull the Wine from Dave Dobbin.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Broa O the one from the River Turn the River.
(23:32):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.