November 17, 2024 • 21 mins
Vanda Symon is a New Zealand author known for her Detective Sam Shephard series, which includes five novels, starting with her debut, Overkill, published in 2007. The novel was written amidst the challenges of raising a young family and inspired by a sleep-deprived state that influenced its prologue. In addition to her series, she has also written a standalone psychological thriller titled The Faceless.
Vanda has a diverse background in both writing and science, having completed a PhD at the University of Otago that examined the communication of science through crime fiction. Her academic credentials include an undergraduate degree in Pharmacy, and she has worked as a community and palliative care pharmacist. Currently, she is a research fellow focused on dementia in aged Pacific people at Va’a o Tautai - Centre for Pacific Health. She also serves as the National President of the New Zealand Society of Authors.
Vanda has received various accolades throughout her career, including nominations for the CWA John Creasey New Blood Dagger award and the Ngaio Marsh Award for best crime novel. She also enjoyed hosting a monthly radio show, Write On, for eighteen years, where she interviewed writers and discussed literature. Outside of writing, she is actively involved in fencing as a competitor and a coach and is a founding member of the Dunedin Crime Writers Association.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News talk S EDB.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Gooday, welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen, my guest
as a pharmacist who specializes in mind altering substances, specifically
the more than seven crime fiction novels he's written.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Joining me from.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Dunedin as doctor Van Der Simon Bullavanarka, doctor Simon molanaka John.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We'll get to your novels, but let's talk about your
day job. You're a researcher into dementia at Otago University,
specifically with specific people.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah. So my beckround my dad was Veijian, so I
have specific heritage. So when looking into areas and doing research,
it was always going to be in ways that we're
going to have positive outcomes or benefits for the Pacific communities.
So one of the projects that I had been recently
involved in was looking at dementia and age Pacific peoples
(01:28):
and just access to information about it for those affected
and for their caregivers. And loved ones and families.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Interesting, how do some Pacific communities especially revered and important
and uh, and so I imagine when they get dementia,
there's all sorts of extra dimensions of which I imagine
that's the type of thing you're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, and like you said, as are you know, particularly
revered into spending in the communities, and so when they'd
go into cognitive decline, you know, it's finding a way
to help them take their dignity and their standing, but
also recognize that you know, they are having issues and
(02:16):
problems and providing their support and that help for them
and their family and caregivers around them.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, now you mentioned your father was Fijian.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
You were raised in New Zealand though, so are you
very steeped in your Fijian cultural identity.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, no, And it's been one of the interesting things
because my dad passed away when I was ten, and
I'm the youngest of a large family, the youngest of twelve,
and so when he passed away, a lot of my
older brothers and sisters left home and so that connection
with the day to day Fijian culture sort of waged
(02:56):
for a wee bit, but it wasn't until I started
working at the University of a Tiger at the Center
for Pacific House that I was able to start feeling
connect the game with my Fijian heritage and with the community,
and that's been absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
As we're going through this program, we're going to find
out that you've got lots of different strands to your life,
and as well as the Fijian cultural aspect, there's also
a love of science and a love of literature. Did
your love of science and literature start off from an
early age?
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Well, the love of literature started off with a love
of reading. My mum was very much into reading and literature.
In fact, she was a primary school teacher and so
books were always just a part of my life and
absolutely door reading.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And if your mum had twelve your mum had twelve children,
how did she ever find time to read?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, we were a blended family. So mum had three children,
dad had eight children. Then they married and had me.
So I'm kind of like the bridge.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Ah, right, his hers in our situation, right.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yes, yes, okay, And so M'm really fosters love a
reading and it was a great way to escape from
having people around and just from life, and that's been
maintained right through to us today. The love of science
just arose out of curiosity. Are just always wanting to
find out how things work and things like that. So
(04:33):
at high school, a lot of people assume that high
school university, oh you must have done love the art,
but no sciences was my love.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
My guest tonight is doctor Van der Simon, crime writer,
author of seven novels that have been very successful, and
also a researcher in Otago University. Now I saw a
six word memoir that you wrote. It was had Babies
Drove Me to Crime? Which I thought was very funny.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Only Tom, I've ever won a writing competition?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is that strictly true? Because I believe you won another
one when you were eight years old.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Oh well that was that was lovely. So that wasn't
like winning and writing competition back in the day, in
the summer holidays of the New Zealand held and these
papers used to have like a summer writing colletition where
you could submit bits of writing. So that was my
very first published work where as an eight year old,
and we actually got paid for it back and they
(05:31):
used to get like postal order little payments and so
there was that was very exciting. I had a couple
of little bits and pieces published. I've tried to find them,
but I haven't been successful so far. I might find
them and then just cringe all. I might find them
and just actually be super proud that that eight year
old Vanda managed to write there.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I'm sure it's sitting in the New Zealand Herald somewhere,
possibly framed on a wall. But you mentioned but I
mentioned that six word memoir that you won a competition for,
and it sort of encapsulates a bit of a change
of direction for you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Had babies drove me to crime.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
As well with my career, so I studies, just got
pharmacy and worked in pharmacies that my husband and my
own owners of pharmacies, and it was like a very
very mind intensive thinking career to be We've had some
all the time because if he made an error, you know,
(06:25):
had potential to do someone quite serious harm. So I
didn't have the mental fortitude write at that stage. But
when I took some time out from work to raise
the children, that's when I finally had some space right
right quite so it's had the babies drove me to
crime that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm interested that you think you had babies and then
I had all this free time to do writing. I'm
thinking a lot of people. It shows how busy you
must have been as a pharmacist, if you.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So, yes, it was a member of just writing in
twenty minutes matches of time here and there when if
fortunately had both children were asleep and I had the space,
so you know, we managed it. It took a while.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
My experience of early parenthood and the stresses and strains
that I'm not surprised that you went into crime writing
and working out out and murder people, But it is
interesting that you edd to crime writing. Is there some
you know, have you had a sort of turned the
spotlight back on your own psyche to think, why am
I fascinated with people murdering people?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, you could worry about that if you wanted to
do it was a pragmatic choice at the time. I've
been given the advice right what you love to read,
and I loved reading crime fiction, and I also loved
reading historic fiction. But at that point, having a six
month old baby in a two year old doing the
research that was necessary for historic fiction was really just
(07:54):
quite difficult because that would involve, you know, libraries and archives,
and they don't tend to like you taking babies with
you into those kinds of spaces. So from a practical perspective,
researching about crime fiction was far more accessible. And my
husband's stepfather had been a former police detective, all right,
so I had someone that I can just ask a
(08:16):
wee bit about procedure or about no details and things.
So it was the practical choice. And I have absolutely
no regrets adawed writing crime fiction and do writing my
detective Sam Shepherd novels and doing mean things to the
poor woman.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Sam Shepherd is a woman detective and she stars in
six of your seven books. Is she modeled on anyone
in particular?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
She's probably an amalgamation of a number of people. People
always ask, as she you, but no, no, Sam Shepherd
is not me. She's got a little bit of my
mum and there because my mum was just over five
foot tall. She was really little, and so I purposefully
made Sam Shepherd just over five foot tall to have
(09:06):
a few obstacles to overcome. But she was also a
little bit of one of the characters I read as
a child, So you know, you are what you read
is an interesting statement, But in books I read as
a child, Amelia Peabody, who was an Elizabeth Peters character,
and a number of sort of historic mysteries. She's got
(09:27):
little characteristics of her as well, so she's definitely her
own person though.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
My guest tonight is doctor Vander Simon, who has written
seven crime novels that are internationally published and a ripping read.
And after the break we'll talk about how she comes
up with ways of murdering people, and how she could
well slice and dice people as well as poison and
murder and blow them up and all the other ways
of killing people. We'll talk a bit about killing people
(09:56):
off in the second half.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
This is real life with John Cown.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news talks.
It'd be gooda welcome back to real life.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
My guest tonight doctor Vander Simon, who's a pharmacist and
researcher and also a crime writer. And she's picked if
you leave me now by Chicago. Why'd you pick this
song Thender?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
This was a little funny reason why I chose this
particular song. So those of us who are a little
older than some may remember back in the days of
records and the old forty five, the little small record,
and my sister had a forty five with the song
on it, and the song the record had did we
(10:40):
scratching it? So whenever this record played, it would get
to a certain part of the song and it would
just repeat on that No, I'm not going to sing
it for you, by the way. And so every time
I hear this song, I wait, I wait for the scratch,
and I wait for that repeat, and I just associate
it with summer. It's a bit of fun, right.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I'll explain to my young producer later on what a
record is and what a scratch of a record, or
he's howling with disbelief he knows what they are. But anyhow,
the temptation when you're writing crime, I imagine, is to
make your villains monolithically black and white bad. And it's
(11:25):
also a temptation we have in life. If we disagree
with someone, we tend to want to paint them in
a bad light and everything. But I guess people are
like medicines. You know, there's good medicines that can be toxic,
and some poisons can have benefits. And I guess real
life is like that with people. And so your villains,
what are they like and do you think about them
a lot?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I do think about them a lot, and I think that,
like you said, we're all on a spectrum between good
and bad, and often it's circumstance that can or poor
decisions that can make someone who may possibly you may
consider good to suddenly be sliding down that perilous hill
(12:07):
towards villainous and bad. And also you know the motivations
behind it. So I purposefully make my villains people who
the reader can actually relate to in some way, because
that can be really, really just uncomfortable. So I know,
when I'm reading a story, it makes me really uncomfortable
when I find myself superthizing to some extent with who
(12:31):
the villain may be. Of course, that varies from book
to books. Sometimes you just need a hard out villain,
but even they can have a softer, very very much
more human side to them. So you know, for me,
it's not black and white at all. There are lots
of elegant and slightly deadly shades of gray.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right, So you're putting your head inside the heads of murderers,
and it's a scary thought that the people that are
going to be committing murders over the next twenty to
thirty years at the moment, they wouldn't be dreaming at all,
would they ever become a murderer. So, by the way,
if you're listening to us folks and you're thinking about murder,
please don't do it. You know what flips inside their
(13:12):
head with a contemplate even doing such a terrible, terrible
thing with such huge consequences.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Well, it can be many, many things, you know, when
you think about what's at stake for them. So if
someone that they loved or cared for was in a
position of peril or at risk, then you know, what
would you be prepared to do for someone that you love? And,
like I said, on other occasions, sometimes make a bad
(13:41):
decision in life, and sometimes that bad decision can just
noble out of control and suddenly what was once an
era has now turned into something quite catastrophic. So yeah,
I don't know that there are many people who go
into the world thinking, actually I'm just going to kol
(14:03):
someone today. It's not that simple, Thank heavens, because I
would hate to think that there are many people that
working the streets alongside us, because that's quite terrifying. But
there are many people who are circumstances gotten away from
them and they find themselves in this terrible position. Unfortunately,
(14:24):
some of them may come to like that. That puts
a bit of an edge on it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now, as an author, not all your characters, of course,
are murderers, and so you get to you've got your
own very full life, but you get to walk in
the shoes of all these imaginary characters as well. Have
you come to any sort of overarching conclusions thoughts, philosophies
about humanity and life?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It's perspective, so it's interesting. I mean, I have a
very positive outlook and life and faith in humanity. And
I suppose if I was going to put one characteristic
into my character Shepherd, is that that she has faith
in humanity, so she looks at people from that lens,
(15:16):
as it were. And Yeah, I don't know that you
can put all of humanity under one philosophy. It'll be
very neat and tidy if you could.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So how about Vander Simon? Then have you got a
sort of a philosophy around her?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Vander Simon, I would say that the philosophy around her
is the values that she holds us to always be kind,
to give people the benefit of the doubt for a
while unless they prove you otherwise, in which case, as
(15:57):
I've grown older, I've learned to realize that you can't
assume people are always going to have your best interests
at heart. That's taken a while to I'm sure that
takes most people a while, but yeah, just live by
your values and the who you are.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Your last your last book, Pray was about a priest
being murdered, and there's obviously religious overtones within that book.
Is that ever a feature in your life?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Well? I came from a strong church background. So my
mum was Presberanian, my dad was Catholic, but I was
kind of brought up in that Presbyterian Methodist church. And
also once when dad had died and we didn't really
(16:52):
have anywhere to go, we're taken in by a Presbyterian
minister and now she'd gone, took mummy and four children,
and so I was essentially a minister's kid for most
of my teenage years as well. So I sort of
had quite embedded within the church upbringing in many ways,
(17:15):
and so I saw many things there and I saw many,
many wonderful things and septs of community and the great
work that people do within the church. But I also
saw some of the hypocrisy and that they're not so
good things about religion and organized religion. So hints and pray.
(17:38):
That sort of underlying theme really of some of the
hypocrisy that you can can see in the church has
come out, and that's sort of based loosely on my
experiences through through my youth.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Okay, so if you were to draw a conclusion and
draw a line under it, it would probably be, yeah, nah,
it's sort of you see the positive aspects of it,
but haven't sort of it hasn't sort of shaken down
into a thing that's central within your own being.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, I mean I've sort of drifted away from being
actually Sam's mumsies in the book Team God to to
actually further away from from there. So religion is no
longer a part of my life. But those values that
I very much grew were completely embedded in there. That
(18:35):
and the importance of the community of being kind of
looking out for other people. So you know, that's that's
an incredible value set that I always live with.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
As a pharmacist. Coming back to another aspect of your
life as a pharmacist, you can probably think of a
dozen decent ways to finish off someone who's annoying you
if you ever felt inclined. But if you also if
you are inclined, you could also skew a slice and
dice your opponents through your skill and fencing. This is
this is just another speak to you. You're an avid fencer.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yes, yeah, and very much enjoy fencing myself, but also
coaching as well. Sharing the love and it's a wonderful sport.
Is a very cathartic way to take out your your
working day sometimes if you need a bit of a release,
a a friend with a sword.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Attack a friend with a sword. That's like a great
way to relieve stress. I've heard you describe it as
physical chess.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yes, well it is a very much a strategic game,
particularly as you get a little bit older and you're
thinking I'm just going to try and conserve my energy,
but get very strategic, but again very physically active as well.
It's very satisfying workap.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
It's been a great pleasure tonight to talk to doctor
Vander Simon, who's authored the seven books to hunt out
her crime books, so that mention a couple of titles
for us well.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
The very first in the same Shepherd series of books
is called Overkill, and I have also written a standalone
psychological thriller called Faceless, and the most recent Sam Shepard
series book, which is set in Eden they're all set
into Eden, is called Pray Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Lots of books have been wonderfully reviewed, going down well,
not just in New Zealand but overseas. If we had
more time, we'd talk about your role on the TV
show Traders. We'd talk about your own radio show that
your host or have been hosting. And it sounds like
you've got about four or five full time jobs going
at the same time.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's been a great privilege talking to you. Thank you
so much for taking the time
Speaker 1 (21:10):
For more from News Talk set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News talk S EDB.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Gooday, welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen, my guest
as a pharmacist who specializes in mind altering substances, specifically
the more than seven crime fiction novels he's written.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Joining me from.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Dunedin as doctor Van Der Simon Bullavanarka, doctor Simon molanaka John.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We'll get to your novels, but let's talk about your
day job. You're a researcher into dementia at Otago University,
specifically with specific people.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah. So my beckround my dad was Veijian, so I
have specific heritage. So when looking into areas and doing research,
it was always going to be in ways that we're
going to have positive outcomes or benefits for the Pacific communities.
So one of the projects that I had been recently
involved in was looking at dementia and age Pacific peoples
(01:28):
and just access to information about it for those affected
and for their caregivers. And loved ones and families.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Interesting, how do some Pacific communities especially revered and important
and uh, and so I imagine when they get dementia,
there's all sorts of extra dimensions of which I imagine
that's the type of thing you're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, and like you said, as are you know, particularly
revered into spending in the communities, and so when they'd
go into cognitive decline, you know, it's finding a way
to help them take their dignity and their standing, but
also recognize that you know, they are having issues and
(02:16):
problems and providing their support and that help for them
and their family and caregivers around them.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, now you mentioned your father was Fijian.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
You were raised in New Zealand though, so are you
very steeped in your Fijian cultural identity.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, no, And it's been one of the interesting things
because my dad passed away when I was ten, and
I'm the youngest of a large family, the youngest of twelve,
and so when he passed away, a lot of my
older brothers and sisters left home and so that connection
with the day to day Fijian culture sort of waged
(02:56):
for a wee bit, but it wasn't until I started
working at the University of a Tiger at the Center
for Pacific House that I was able to start feeling
connect the game with my Fijian heritage and with the community,
and that's been absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
As we're going through this program, we're going to find
out that you've got lots of different strands to your life,
and as well as the Fijian cultural aspect, there's also
a love of science and a love of literature. Did
your love of science and literature start off from an
early age?
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Well, the love of literature started off with a love
of reading. My mum was very much into reading and literature.
In fact, she was a primary school teacher and so
books were always just a part of my life and
absolutely door reading.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And if your mum had twelve your mum had twelve children,
how did she ever find time to read?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, we were a blended family. So mum had three children,
dad had eight children. Then they married and had me.
So I'm kind of like the bridge.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Ah, right, his hers in our situation, right.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yes, yes, okay, And so M'm really fosters love a
reading and it was a great way to escape from
having people around and just from life, and that's been
maintained right through to us today. The love of science
just arose out of curiosity. Are just always wanting to
find out how things work and things like that. So
(04:33):
at high school, a lot of people assume that high
school university, oh you must have done love the art,
but no sciences was my love.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
My guest tonight is doctor Van der Simon, crime writer,
author of seven novels that have been very successful, and
also a researcher in Otago University. Now I saw a
six word memoir that you wrote. It was had Babies
Drove Me to Crime? Which I thought was very funny.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Only Tom, I've ever won a writing competition?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is that strictly true? Because I believe you won another
one when you were eight years old.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Oh well that was that was lovely. So that wasn't
like winning and writing competition back in the day, in
the summer holidays of the New Zealand held and these
papers used to have like a summer writing colletition where
you could submit bits of writing. So that was my
very first published work where as an eight year old,
and we actually got paid for it back and they
(05:31):
used to get like postal order little payments and so
there was that was very exciting. I had a couple
of little bits and pieces published. I've tried to find them,
but I haven't been successful so far. I might find
them and then just cringe all. I might find them
and just actually be super proud that that eight year
old Vanda managed to write there.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I'm sure it's sitting in the New Zealand Herald somewhere,
possibly framed on a wall. But you mentioned but I
mentioned that six word memoir that you won a competition for,
and it sort of encapsulates a bit of a change
of direction for you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Had babies drove me to crime.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
As well with my career, so I studies, just got
pharmacy and worked in pharmacies that my husband and my
own owners of pharmacies, and it was like a very
very mind intensive thinking career to be We've had some
all the time because if he made an error, you know,
(06:25):
had potential to do someone quite serious harm. So I
didn't have the mental fortitude write at that stage. But
when I took some time out from work to raise
the children, that's when I finally had some space right
right quite so it's had the babies drove me to
crime that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm interested that you think you had babies and then
I had all this free time to do writing. I'm
thinking a lot of people. It shows how busy you
must have been as a pharmacist, if you.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So, yes, it was a member of just writing in
twenty minutes matches of time here and there when if
fortunately had both children were asleep and I had the space,
so you know, we managed it. It took a while.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
My experience of early parenthood and the stresses and strains
that I'm not surprised that you went into crime writing
and working out out and murder people, But it is
interesting that you edd to crime writing. Is there some
you know, have you had a sort of turned the
spotlight back on your own psyche to think, why am
I fascinated with people murdering people?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, you could worry about that if you wanted to
do it was a pragmatic choice at the time. I've
been given the advice right what you love to read,
and I loved reading crime fiction, and I also loved
reading historic fiction. But at that point, having a six
month old baby in a two year old doing the
research that was necessary for historic fiction was really just
(07:54):
quite difficult because that would involve, you know, libraries and archives,
and they don't tend to like you taking babies with
you into those kinds of spaces. So from a practical perspective,
researching about crime fiction was far more accessible. And my
husband's stepfather had been a former police detective, all right,
so I had someone that I can just ask a
(08:16):
wee bit about procedure or about no details and things.
So it was the practical choice. And I have absolutely
no regrets adawed writing crime fiction and do writing my
detective Sam Shepherd novels and doing mean things to the
poor woman.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Sam Shepherd is a woman detective and she stars in
six of your seven books. Is she modeled on anyone
in particular?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
She's probably an amalgamation of a number of people. People
always ask, as she you, but no, no, Sam Shepherd
is not me. She's got a little bit of my
mum and there because my mum was just over five
foot tall. She was really little, and so I purposefully
made Sam Shepherd just over five foot tall to have
(09:06):
a few obstacles to overcome. But she was also a
little bit of one of the characters I read as
a child, So you know, you are what you read
is an interesting statement, But in books I read as
a child, Amelia Peabody, who was an Elizabeth Peters character,
and a number of sort of historic mysteries. She's got
(09:27):
little characteristics of her as well, so she's definitely her
own person though.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
My guest tonight is doctor Vander Simon, who has written
seven crime novels that are internationally published and a ripping read.
And after the break we'll talk about how she comes
up with ways of murdering people, and how she could
well slice and dice people as well as poison and
murder and blow them up and all the other ways
of killing people. We'll talk a bit about killing people
(09:56):
off in the second half.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
This is real life with John Cown.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news talks.
It'd be gooda welcome back to real life.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
My guest tonight doctor Vander Simon, who's a pharmacist and
researcher and also a crime writer. And she's picked if
you leave me now by Chicago. Why'd you pick this
song Thender?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
This was a little funny reason why I chose this
particular song. So those of us who are a little
older than some may remember back in the days of
records and the old forty five, the little small record,
and my sister had a forty five with the song
on it, and the song the record had did we
(10:40):
scratching it? So whenever this record played, it would get
to a certain part of the song and it would
just repeat on that No, I'm not going to sing
it for you, by the way. And so every time
I hear this song, I wait, I wait for the scratch,
and I wait for that repeat, and I just associate
it with summer. It's a bit of fun, right.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I'll explain to my young producer later on what a
record is and what a scratch of a record, or
he's howling with disbelief he knows what they are. But anyhow,
the temptation when you're writing crime, I imagine, is to
make your villains monolithically black and white bad. And it's
(11:25):
also a temptation we have in life. If we disagree
with someone, we tend to want to paint them in
a bad light and everything. But I guess people are
like medicines. You know, there's good medicines that can be toxic,
and some poisons can have benefits. And I guess real
life is like that with people. And so your villains,
what are they like and do you think about them
a lot?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I do think about them a lot, and I think that,
like you said, we're all on a spectrum between good
and bad, and often it's circumstance that can or poor
decisions that can make someone who may possibly you may
consider good to suddenly be sliding down that perilous hill
(12:07):
towards villainous and bad. And also you know the motivations
behind it. So I purposefully make my villains people who
the reader can actually relate to in some way, because
that can be really, really just uncomfortable. So I know,
when I'm reading a story, it makes me really uncomfortable
when I find myself superthizing to some extent with who
(12:31):
the villain may be. Of course, that varies from book
to books. Sometimes you just need a hard out villain,
but even they can have a softer, very very much
more human side to them. So you know, for me,
it's not black and white at all. There are lots
of elegant and slightly deadly shades of gray.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right, So you're putting your head inside the heads of murderers,
and it's a scary thought that the people that are
going to be committing murders over the next twenty to
thirty years at the moment, they wouldn't be dreaming at all,
would they ever become a murderer. So, by the way,
if you're listening to us folks and you're thinking about murder,
please don't do it. You know what flips inside their
(13:12):
head with a contemplate even doing such a terrible, terrible
thing with such huge consequences.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Well, it can be many, many things, you know, when
you think about what's at stake for them. So if
someone that they loved or cared for was in a
position of peril or at risk, then you know, what
would you be prepared to do for someone that you love? And,
like I said, on other occasions, sometimes make a bad
(13:41):
decision in life, and sometimes that bad decision can just
noble out of control and suddenly what was once an
era has now turned into something quite catastrophic. So yeah,
I don't know that there are many people who go
into the world thinking, actually I'm just going to kol
(14:03):
someone today. It's not that simple, Thank heavens, because I
would hate to think that there are many people that
working the streets alongside us, because that's quite terrifying. But
there are many people who are circumstances gotten away from
them and they find themselves in this terrible position. Unfortunately,
(14:24):
some of them may come to like that. That puts
a bit of an edge on it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now, as an author, not all your characters, of course,
are murderers, and so you get to you've got your
own very full life, but you get to walk in
the shoes of all these imaginary characters as well. Have
you come to any sort of overarching conclusions thoughts, philosophies
about humanity and life?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It's perspective, so it's interesting. I mean, I have a
very positive outlook and life and faith in humanity. And
I suppose if I was going to put one characteristic
into my character Shepherd, is that that she has faith
in humanity, so she looks at people from that lens,
(15:16):
as it were. And Yeah, I don't know that you
can put all of humanity under one philosophy. It'll be
very neat and tidy if you could.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So how about Vander Simon? Then have you got a
sort of a philosophy around her?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Vander Simon, I would say that the philosophy around her
is the values that she holds us to always be kind,
to give people the benefit of the doubt for a
while unless they prove you otherwise, in which case, as
(15:57):
I've grown older, I've learned to realize that you can't
assume people are always going to have your best interests
at heart. That's taken a while to I'm sure that
takes most people a while, but yeah, just live by
your values and the who you are.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Your last your last book, Pray was about a priest
being murdered, and there's obviously religious overtones within that book.
Is that ever a feature in your life?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Well? I came from a strong church background. So my
mum was Presberanian, my dad was Catholic, but I was
kind of brought up in that Presbyterian Methodist church. And
also once when dad had died and we didn't really
(16:52):
have anywhere to go, we're taken in by a Presbyterian
minister and now she'd gone, took mummy and four children,
and so I was essentially a minister's kid for most
of my teenage years as well. So I sort of
had quite embedded within the church upbringing in many ways,
(17:15):
and so I saw many things there and I saw many,
many wonderful things and septs of community and the great
work that people do within the church. But I also
saw some of the hypocrisy and that they're not so
good things about religion and organized religion. So hints and pray.
(17:38):
That sort of underlying theme really of some of the
hypocrisy that you can can see in the church has
come out, and that's sort of based loosely on my
experiences through through my youth.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Okay, so if you were to draw a conclusion and
draw a line under it, it would probably be, yeah, nah,
it's sort of you see the positive aspects of it,
but haven't sort of it hasn't sort of shaken down
into a thing that's central within your own being.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, I mean I've sort of drifted away from being
actually Sam's mumsies in the book Team God to to
actually further away from from there. So religion is no
longer a part of my life. But those values that
I very much grew were completely embedded in there. That
(18:35):
and the importance of the community of being kind of
looking out for other people. So you know, that's that's
an incredible value set that I always live with.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
As a pharmacist. Coming back to another aspect of your
life as a pharmacist, you can probably think of a
dozen decent ways to finish off someone who's annoying you
if you ever felt inclined. But if you also if
you are inclined, you could also skew a slice and
dice your opponents through your skill and fencing. This is
this is just another speak to you. You're an avid fencer.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yes, yeah, and very much enjoy fencing myself, but also
coaching as well. Sharing the love and it's a wonderful sport.
Is a very cathartic way to take out your your
working day sometimes if you need a bit of a release,
a a friend with a sword.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Attack a friend with a sword. That's like a great
way to relieve stress. I've heard you describe it as
physical chess.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yes, well it is a very much a strategic game,
particularly as you get a little bit older and you're
thinking I'm just going to try and conserve my energy,
but get very strategic, but again very physically active as well.
It's very satisfying workap.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
It's been a great pleasure tonight to talk to doctor
Vander Simon, who's authored the seven books to hunt out
her crime books, so that mention a couple of titles
for us well.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
The very first in the same Shepherd series of books
is called Overkill, and I have also written a standalone
psychological thriller called Faceless, and the most recent Sam Shepard
series book, which is set in Eden they're all set
into Eden, is called Pray Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Lots of books have been wonderfully reviewed, going down well,
not just in New Zealand but overseas. If we had
more time, we'd talk about your role on the TV
show Traders. We'd talk about your own radio show that
your host or have been hosting. And it sounds like
you've got about four or five full time jobs going
at the same time.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's been a great privilege talking to you. Thank you
so much for taking the time
Speaker 1 (21:10):
For more from News Talk set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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