October 13, 2024 • 23 mins
Ella Kumar is the current chair of Auckland’s Puketāpapa Local Board, and in 2010 she was the first Kiwi-Indian woman elected to a local board in the country.
She's a qualified aerobics instructor, volunteer, marriage celebrant and is known for her passion for the community of Mt Roskill.
Kumar was recently awarded the Hall of Fame Award at the Kiwi Indian Hall of Fame Awards 2024 for her remarkable journey that inspires many Indian New Zealanders.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Real Conversation, Real Connection, It's Real life with John Cowan
on News Talk s ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Gooday, I'm John Kowner, my guest tonight, a very special
woman who have had the pleasure of meeting very briefly
at functions and I'm looking forward to getting to know
her a lot more tonight. Welcome, I La Kumar.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good evening, John. How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good? Thank you. Now you're the first woman of
Indian origin to lead a local board in New Zealand
and recently have been inducted into the Indian Hall of Fame,
and well, congratulations, thank you. I saw that it gave
you the opportunity of dancing with the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Give me a stage and we'll make people dance.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've seen videos of you getting hundreds of people dancing.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Definitely really and so.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's part of your skill set that we'll talk about.
You're very high prominence, not just in the Indian community
but the whole community. But you've come from a background
that didn't really encourage progress and elevation and amongst women
and so you probably didn't really expect of being able
(01:22):
to achieve like you have.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah. No, I don't think if I put myself back
to the nineteen seventies and eighties going into school, I
probably never thought I would be where I am today.
It was totally different. The way we were brought up
wouldn't change anything, but there were a lot of challenges
at that time, and I was brought up with a
very traditional cultural family who had migrated. Granddad came in
(01:46):
the nineteen twenties. Dad came in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So there's been two waves of immigration in your family.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
From Yep, Granddad was more isolated on his own. Most
of the families stayed in India, and Granddad then went
over and got Dad and his brothers and they came
in the nineteen fifties. So pretty much after the nineteen fifties,
I can say that they were more grounded in New
Zealand and started to find a way of life.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So you were born in New Zealand, yes, but raised
within a very fairly time, very Indian.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Culture, very very I think everything we did. Language were
one thing. We all spoke Indian in the house. Mum
actually even now preference is to speak Guarati to her,
so even though she speaks a little bit English now
and understands my aunties. We all stayed in one home,
of course, and Gujarati was a language, so that's how
I learned the mother tongue.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So you said your aunties. So that was multiple families
in the one hunt.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We had three families plus grandparents any visitors. By the
time the children all came along, we're looking at nearly
eight children in the household, moving on to nine. That's
a big high family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You say you wouldn't change a thing.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I would not change a thing. I missed them days.
They were challenging, challenging, but very rewarding having his siblings
with you, like sleeping five in one room with Grandma
in the room as well. I think they were exciting days.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Now you appreciated it, you enjoyed it. But then you
were thrown out into New Zealand schools.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, what was that like? That was hard? I think
at that time not many Indians were around, so we
definitely had challenges going into the school. Was a little
bit more shyer than what most children were. I don't
know how other children felt, but I know for myself
being bring a darker skin, coming with not many like
(03:39):
even lunches was the biggest shoe. We never took our
Indian food to school. We took sandwiches only because we
were called curry munches at that time, So things like that.
I think it sort of held me back a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Did it make you embarrassed or shy?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Probably shy, and when I took it, I probably don't
know what embarrassed was at that time, but mainly shy
and then trying to make ourselves fit in what else
is everyone else? And we're strict vegetarians, so food was
definitely an issue for us. Not many places had good
vegetarian foods at that time, and parents insisted on us
(04:15):
eating home food, not eat out as much because we
were My parents were concerned that since we strict vegetarian
due to religion, you might end up getting something that
you're not meant to eat.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So you werened.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
A confident student, definitely not a confidence students. Very scared
to put my hand up when a question was asked
by the teacher. Very scared.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Now, this is the interesting thing about Elakuma. Who's the
most confident person you're ever going to meet who's putting
up a hand for everything, and never put up a
hand at school. So I think part of the changes
you've made in your life are part of the reason
why you're making such a big change in communities today.
So how did you get your confidence?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Okay, that was a bit of a journey as well.
So school was one place. The only thing I can
remember at my primary school level is we were doing
physical education and I was playing sports, and that particular day,
the most i'd say, the guy that was probably the
most popular guy at that level that I was at,
I managed to get him out playing a game of softball,
(05:19):
and boy did that boost my feelings of empowerment. So
that memory is in my head that I got the
most popular guy out at school on a baseball game.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Isn't it amazing how sport can do that?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Totally totally, and.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think and he himself is now on medication and
requiring counseling. But you've done so well.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
That was my first step. That was definitely my first step,
and then on going on to intermediate school, we pretty
much had to do our own sporting interests. Parents Dad
was working really hard, Mum couldn't drive, so I think
netball helped me out a lot. And I used to
go and play netball for the schools, and by the
time I got to high school, I would go and
coach the younger children. So I started doing volunteering from
(06:01):
like probably at that time called Form three, which is
year nine. So that sort of gave me a bit
more encouragement to step out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So were you getting much encouragement from home to do this?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No? No, there was never interest in getting sports as
part of They wanted neurosye literacy, Yeah, get to At
that time, girls were pushed to do more upt about school.
See not so much in New.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
We Expectations for life for a young Indian.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Woman, Yeah, probably be shocked. I got married when I
was seventeen. Yeah, so it's pretty much finished the school
life up to what you can like Form five, get
a job, get married and start your families.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So that that was your career expectations. Then that was
you sort of broke the mold there a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
We did get married yet, yes, I got married to
eighteen the next day. That helps.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh okay, but you still got married at seventeen. Now,
Indians are famous for arranged marriages and some speak very
highly of that system. Was yours an arranged marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I had to sort of fight for my husband. We
have several rules. Well, we had to fight. I had
to fight parents to get to make sure I can
get to marry him. Now, when we took about fighting,
it wasn't big, you know, arguments and stuff. But of
course parents at that time, we're always looking for the
best for their daughters. And this arranged marriages happened a
lot at that time, and Grandma probably had someone in
(07:28):
India that she wanted me to marry. And we had
strict rules. The husband had to be from the same
even though we're Gujarati's, there's lots of different Gadartis, so
we have sort of certain groups. So the husband had
to be from that particular growth. He had to be
strict vegetarian, non alcoholic. Probably money played a role as
well for some parents at that time, but TechEd all
(07:50):
the boxes, all but the money side. But I wasn't
worried about that because he works very, very hard. But yeah, Grham,
Grandma did have another person in India, I think that
at that time, and that's happened with a lot of
girls where they had people that they wanted to marry arranged,
but I was lucky to get him.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Guy like the guy that you caught out at primary
school is probably still upset by some of these choices.
Your favorites worked well for you. Meeting him before, he
seemed very happy of the forty years that he's had
with you. Now, if you've just tuned in, my guest
is Ilakuma, who's the chair of the sorry I beg
(08:29):
your pardon, local board, the first Indian, a woman of
Indian origins, to be chairing a local board and also
achieving in all sorts of other areas. You got into
your sort of adult career through aerobics and Jesus size
and things like that, which seems like a very straight
(08:51):
considering the background that you've had. That seemed very strange.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
That sort of got me out of my shyness. I'd say,
my sister decided to pick up going to aerobics, and
at that time Wellesley Street had a great Jesus Size
Jesse Jetics place. It's now the Countdown there, but we
would come there every Sunday and I got interested in it.
I think the reason I got interested in it is
because we were kept in a very shaled home. You
(09:17):
weren't allowed to go out as much. We had to
stay home. Went't allowed to go to clubs or anything
like that because the girls got to do that. And
going into the gym in that particular time, hearing music,
getting allowed, being able to move, do what you're like,
I just felt the freedom. And I think when the
gym had a course running for aerobics instructors, I thought,
(09:40):
let's give it a go. I'm putting so many hours
into this after work. Let me go and see what
it's about. And I paid a bit of money to
get this across, but I wanted to earn that money
back in case I don't carry on. I don't want
to waste it. So here I went along, did the course,
went and got a job who paid me a bit
of cash to do the classes. And this was in
downtown and I did about ten classes to cover my
(10:03):
cost at that time, and from that picking up classes,
going into Universe to recreational facility who gave me a
summer program classes. It just grew my wings.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Again. Let's just come back to you. This is set
against the background totally. How did your parents feel about, say,
the clothes that you wear.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
When you do it around as a no. No. Parents
weren't very happy with the aerobics that I picked up
as an interest. I think the community at large, we're
not accepting that as a profession. I don't think it
was seen as a profession at all, really, and I
think it was not accepting the clothing. Yep, clothing was
a big issue for us. We were brought up to
where our full saris or whether there are traditional solool comees,
(10:45):
which is like a long top.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Very hard to do aerobics in.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
There, very hard. Even wearing sleeveless tops and stuff like that.
We just weren't allowed to. So there were challenges. We'd
have to go into the gym with my full clothing
on and then go there quickly, get changed most of
the time, and then put it back on again to
leave to go back home right again.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So you spoke earlier how you wouldn't change a thing.
You were so appre of your culture, and you know,
a big booster of your culture and a promoter of it,
and yet you are you sort of wriggled out of
it in some ways.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I think I try to keep my culture within me regardless.
I don't want to change that. I think I'm quite
strong about that. It is who I am. But I
think there's ways we can actually find where we can
follow a journey that can actually help us to be
better people, not making drastic changes and going against my culture.
But yes, aerobics was at that time going against it.
(11:41):
But now it's taken a three sixty degree turn and
people accept it to be their health and wellbeing of
a person, and they actually allow that to be something
that they encourage and wanted in their own facilities. I
do the Mahtma Gandhi Center every Saturday morning as a volunteer,
and I do fitness there in all ages, all men
and women, elderly, young, all come along wearing a sari,
(12:05):
wearing a clild, comes wearing tights of want to but
the freedom of allowing them to wear what they want.
We do that and I do that is to give back.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Now, it's how you take those classes.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I do I do as a volunteer.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
You are changing your culture.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I am changing the culture to the better. I hope,
I hope.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh, I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are. So
this was giving you, you know, this idea of aerobics
making you physically strong a performance aspect to it expressive thing.
So it really did give you confidence.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Oh, it empowered me. I think getting people to go yeah,
it may when you can tell someone, especially being an Indian.
I think it was the first time I felt when
I taught people to go right, people went right. When
I taught people to go left, people went left. I
think it helped me to be able to know that
I can do things. I think it really changed the
way I felt on what I'm able to do, and
(13:00):
that took a long time to get out. Even though
the coaching at Knitball, getting into putting up my hand
at the high school or whether it's into work, I
think this helped a lot more to get my confidence out.
And I still can remember one day we were having
this like coming from a big home, lots of people
in that house, and all of us sort of got
(13:21):
a bit of trouble. The kids had to go into
the room and dad and mom must have said something
and I went up to Mom and dad. This the
first time I actually said to mom and dad or
maybe don't talk to us like that. Wow, Now I
remember my mom saying something to me, and I just
walked straight into the room. But then times we never
did that and we never said anything to our parents.
We just listened. But there was the first time I
said maybe there's another way to talk to us, and
(13:44):
that was another start of a change of what was
coming through. I had two our older sisters in me,
and of course with the two older sisters has been
a bit more quieter. This was a change coming through
for us.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
My guest tonight is Elikuma, who her son describes as
the prime Minister of Mount Roskell, making changes not just
within her own culture, but within a community as well.
We'll be back more with some of her reflections on culture, life,
religion and perhaps the prospects of the region that she
represents as a local politician. This is real life. I'm
(14:17):
John Cown. You're listening to News Talks.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
EDB intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I just know my guest wants to dance to the
Ela Kuma, who's the chair of the Pooky Tar Pappa,
Pookie Tar Papa. I'll get it right, Community board. This
is a special song for you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
It sure is. The words just say it. I want
to break free and that is exactly what throughout my
whole life, if I think about it, from the time
I started going to school, to high school, right through
to work even now, there are times when I just
want to break free.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I imagine sitting in community community board meetings. There be
times when you just want to get out of there,
wouldn't you. But you seem to relish these challenges I do.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I actually love what I do. I think that's really important.
And I think if you do that, even though you
want to break free, most of the time, you take
the challenges and you grow with them. And I've learned
a lot in life through that. I take every challenge
as a positive, not a negative.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Even the ones that don't work out well.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Even the ones that don't work out well, because it's
no use no use worrying about it, no use thinking
what what can I do go against it? Just take
the challenge and find the best out of it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Are you a political person?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I often say to people I'm not, and I get
told you are because you were actually sitting on local board.
But I don't see that as a political place.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So you're not within any party structure or anything.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
No, of course, we go through local body elections and
you sit on a ticket and the ticket I'm on,
and if everyone looked at it, they'd able to see
the history of it. That ticket was brought out to
stop politics to get onto local politics.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, that sounds like a very healthy thing. I can
remember a time when local body politics wasn't pot and
I think we were better served. But it totally by
that system, totally. Now before the break about standing up
to your parents, but I heard a story about how
you and one of your first forays into sort of
(16:17):
community leadership was being the secretary of a committee that
your father was on.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's right. We have our own organizations and I belonged
to one of them, and I decided to take a
position as a member and then into an executive committee
and then as a secretary. So it was the first
female that went into this particular organization and it wasn't
accepted as well. My dad was also on there. He
did very well to keeping the foundation of that committee going.
(16:44):
But I do think that time I was thinking in
my head a little bit of change needs to come through,
not to change the constitution, but the way we actually
adopt and allow people to get on help support. I
think that change needed to come through. So, yeah, I
became the secretary. You get nominated and I put my
hand up to and then I got elected on. And
(17:05):
I remember going to a meeting one day with Dad
because he's still on the committee. Took him a long
time to actually move away from it. And every time
I went to a meeting, I said to him, Dad,
don't forget when we walk through them doors, I am
the secretary. We're both in a committee. You're not my dad,
so you may not like what I say sometimes, but
when we walk out, I'll be your daughter again. So
(17:27):
that took a while.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Even though in the first half of specially, you were
talking about how Indian women had certain expectations marriage and
not a career, not expected to be very public in
their careers, and your dad was part of this old
school Indian culture. And yet I've also heard you credit
(17:49):
your dad with a lot of the community spirit stuff
that's so big in your world.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, I think I've got to understand where Dad was
coming from. And I think even now there are times
when I think Dad is that's him. I can't change that.
That's a culture he came and grew up with. What
he grew up with, and what has stayed with even
though he took his work ethics slightly differently. Yeah, my
upbringing and the way I do my children is slightly different,
(18:15):
but still trying to keep our culture alive in them,
trying to get them to understand that that's quick keeping
you as a rich person. It's not about money. It's
about the person that you've got and you've inherited it,
don't let it go. And I think Dad tried to
keep our culture alive through his children. And for that reason,
even though it was hard bringing us to New Zealand,
trying to keep us within the Indian culture and not
(18:37):
take so much of the European culture. I think it
was challenging for them as parents, and I think they
were scared that we may go for European and I
think that was worrying for them.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I just as I was driving here tonight, I saw
an Indian girl with her European boyfriend, and I imagine
that's not a prevalent, but probably not an unfamiliar, not
anymore situation, but it would have been frowned upon when
you were great.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Totally. There were a few of our community people at
that time, remember just marrying like when we were to
get married, we were told you had to be within
their own committee or community, and these people didn't.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Do that and were the ostracized from it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
They were, Yes, they were, definitely and they now accepted
a little bit more better. And I don't know if
it was it was probably when we think about it now,
it's wrong, definitely wrong. But they were just trying to
keep the culture with the way it was, and I
think the understandings come through now. I've got two children
who have who've actually both married. My daughter, we're from
(19:41):
North India and she's married as South Indian, so even
that's at that time was very difficult for her. But
parents have now accepted it too. So that was very hard.
And here we were bringing up our children that you
had to marry within this culture, this committee, this community,
and that was hard for my children too.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
As well as being a local body politician. And you're
also a JP and also a marriage celebrant.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yes, sure, and so.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
When you're talking to couples, yeah, you can understand sometimes
that they will be coming from these that's right situations.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I've done a lot of weddings of different whether it's
an Indian marrying a Chinese, whether they're marrying a European,
whether they're marrying someone that's totally out of their community.
I think at the end of the day, it's made
me feel comfortable now to do these weddings knowing that
they are, they are with the people they want. They
still got a culture. They've both got a culture each,
(20:36):
and they need to understand that probably when their life
goes further down the track, how they're going to deal
with it when children come along. But right now, at
that time, they both actually cultures are great to actually
bring together.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
What about religion.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You're a Hindu, yes, some are Hindu.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
How much of that? How much is that part of
your say, daily life?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And thought it's interesting that you raised it. I got
told the other day that you're probably They said I
was a Kiwi Indian and I said, you say, I am,
But they said, but you've got more Indian than you
than you have, like as if you were in New Zealand.
Most of them change. Your accent is like a European,
but when you look at you, the way you dress,
the tire, it's all Indian. And I think for me
(21:19):
the Hindu culture is something that I actually we celebrate
it so worldwide. The religion sides there. A lot of
us have different parts of religion that we all do differently.
All Indians have different parts of it that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
They so different Hindus will have They might celebrate the
same festivals, but they have different expressions and experiences of
their religion.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yep. Each Hindu will have a different sort of group
and that group believes in certain parts of the religion
that for example, I'm a strict vegetarian, another Hindu may
not be. But they've got different celebrations that when we
all do the same celebration like Dvali that's coming up
with some festivals that we all just celebrate and that's
common for all Hindus.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Right now, Dwali's coming up. What part What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Divali is just an amazing event that's just taken off worldwide.
It is Indian Christmas. It is definitely Indian Christmas. In
the next day pretty much is New Year. So the calendar, yes,
they celebrate our twelvemonth. They have the same calendar and
they celebrate Christmas, but they don't celebrate Christmas like the
way we celebrate it. Special foods, foods, presents, elders give
(22:29):
new clothing, they give money to youngsters. All that's done
during Devali time.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
If we have Indian friends and workmates, what should we
do or say it?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Do you have a just happy Devali.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And get along to some of the festivals and along
to the festivals.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Don't think it. Auckland Council's got these next weekend right now.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Auckland is now a majority non Europeans, that's right, which
just makes us a very very diversity. There's still not
many people of color in our local politics and it's
not reflected in the council. So come on, do a
shout out and encourage people to get into leadership.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I do think that we need to get that change
to happen in big time. The first time I got
elected in twenty ten and I went to the twenty
one local boards get together. There was myself in one
other Chinese person at that time, and the one thing
we said was, gosh, we've got to work hard to
get more representation of our wider communities into local politics.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you. Your positivity
and encouragement in the way that you're prepared to get
in there and change things. That's been fantastic. We'll go
out in another other song that you've scraped. What have
we got?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Well, this time you've got now. I'm sure it's a
love this feeling, love this feeling.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I've been talking with Elakuma and it's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
This is real life on News Talk S EDB. Looking
forward to being back with you again next week.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
For more from News Talk SAIDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on Iartradio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Real Conversation, Real Connection, It's Real life with John Cowan
on News Talk s ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Gooday, I'm John Kowner, my guest tonight, a very special
woman who have had the pleasure of meeting very briefly
at functions and I'm looking forward to getting to know
her a lot more tonight. Welcome, I La Kumar.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good evening, John. How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good? Thank you. Now you're the first woman of
Indian origin to lead a local board in New Zealand
and recently have been inducted into the Indian Hall of Fame,
and well, congratulations, thank you. I saw that it gave
you the opportunity of dancing with the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Give me a stage and we'll make people dance.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've seen videos of you getting hundreds of people dancing.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Definitely really and so.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's part of your skill set that we'll talk about.
You're very high prominence, not just in the Indian community
but the whole community. But you've come from a background
that didn't really encourage progress and elevation and amongst women
and so you probably didn't really expect of being able
(01:22):
to achieve like you have.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah. No, I don't think if I put myself back
to the nineteen seventies and eighties going into school, I
probably never thought I would be where I am today.
It was totally different. The way we were brought up
wouldn't change anything, but there were a lot of challenges
at that time, and I was brought up with a
very traditional cultural family who had migrated. Granddad came in
(01:46):
the nineteen twenties. Dad came in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So there's been two waves of immigration in your family.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
From Yep, Granddad was more isolated on his own. Most
of the families stayed in India, and Granddad then went
over and got Dad and his brothers and they came
in the nineteen fifties. So pretty much after the nineteen fifties,
I can say that they were more grounded in New
Zealand and started to find a way of life.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So you were born in New Zealand, yes, but raised
within a very fairly time, very Indian.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Culture, very very I think everything we did. Language were
one thing. We all spoke Indian in the house. Mum
actually even now preference is to speak Guarati to her,
so even though she speaks a little bit English now
and understands my aunties. We all stayed in one home,
of course, and Gujarati was a language, so that's how
I learned the mother tongue.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So you said your aunties. So that was multiple families
in the one hunt.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We had three families plus grandparents any visitors. By the
time the children all came along, we're looking at nearly
eight children in the household, moving on to nine. That's
a big high family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You say you wouldn't change a thing.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I would not change a thing. I missed them days.
They were challenging, challenging, but very rewarding having his siblings
with you, like sleeping five in one room with Grandma
in the room as well. I think they were exciting days.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Now you appreciated it, you enjoyed it. But then you
were thrown out into New Zealand schools.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, what was that like? That was hard? I think
at that time not many Indians were around, so we
definitely had challenges going into the school. Was a little
bit more shyer than what most children were. I don't
know how other children felt, but I know for myself
being bring a darker skin, coming with not many like
(03:39):
even lunches was the biggest shoe. We never took our
Indian food to school. We took sandwiches only because we
were called curry munches at that time, So things like that.
I think it sort of held me back a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Did it make you embarrassed or shy?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Probably shy, and when I took it, I probably don't
know what embarrassed was at that time, but mainly shy
and then trying to make ourselves fit in what else
is everyone else? And we're strict vegetarians, so food was
definitely an issue for us. Not many places had good
vegetarian foods at that time, and parents insisted on us
(04:15):
eating home food, not eat out as much because we
were My parents were concerned that since we strict vegetarian
due to religion, you might end up getting something that
you're not meant to eat.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So you werened.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
A confident student, definitely not a confidence students. Very scared
to put my hand up when a question was asked
by the teacher. Very scared.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Now, this is the interesting thing about Elakuma. Who's the
most confident person you're ever going to meet who's putting
up a hand for everything, and never put up a
hand at school. So I think part of the changes
you've made in your life are part of the reason
why you're making such a big change in communities today.
So how did you get your confidence?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Okay, that was a bit of a journey as well.
So school was one place. The only thing I can
remember at my primary school level is we were doing
physical education and I was playing sports, and that particular day,
the most i'd say, the guy that was probably the
most popular guy at that level that I was at,
I managed to get him out playing a game of softball,
(05:19):
and boy did that boost my feelings of empowerment. So
that memory is in my head that I got the
most popular guy out at school on a baseball game.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Isn't it amazing how sport can do that?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Totally totally, and.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think and he himself is now on medication and
requiring counseling. But you've done so well.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
That was my first step. That was definitely my first step,
and then on going on to intermediate school, we pretty
much had to do our own sporting interests. Parents Dad
was working really hard, Mum couldn't drive, so I think
netball helped me out a lot. And I used to
go and play netball for the schools, and by the
time I got to high school, I would go and
coach the younger children. So I started doing volunteering from
(06:01):
like probably at that time called Form three, which is
year nine. So that sort of gave me a bit
more encouragement to step out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So were you getting much encouragement from home to do this?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No? No, there was never interest in getting sports as
part of They wanted neurosye literacy, Yeah, get to At
that time, girls were pushed to do more upt about school.
See not so much in New.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
We Expectations for life for a young Indian.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Woman, Yeah, probably be shocked. I got married when I
was seventeen. Yeah, so it's pretty much finished the school
life up to what you can like Form five, get
a job, get married and start your families.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So that that was your career expectations. Then that was
you sort of broke the mold there a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
We did get married yet, yes, I got married to
eighteen the next day. That helps.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh okay, but you still got married at seventeen. Now,
Indians are famous for arranged marriages and some speak very
highly of that system. Was yours an arranged marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I had to sort of fight for my husband. We
have several rules. Well, we had to fight. I had
to fight parents to get to make sure I can
get to marry him. Now, when we took about fighting,
it wasn't big, you know, arguments and stuff. But of
course parents at that time, we're always looking for the
best for their daughters. And this arranged marriages happened a
lot at that time, and Grandma probably had someone in
(07:28):
India that she wanted me to marry. And we had
strict rules. The husband had to be from the same
even though we're Gujarati's, there's lots of different Gadartis, so
we have sort of certain groups. So the husband had
to be from that particular growth. He had to be
strict vegetarian, non alcoholic. Probably money played a role as
well for some parents at that time, but TechEd all
(07:50):
the boxes, all but the money side. But I wasn't
worried about that because he works very, very hard. But yeah, Grham,
Grandma did have another person in India, I think that
at that time, and that's happened with a lot of
girls where they had people that they wanted to marry arranged,
but I was lucky to get him.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Guy like the guy that you caught out at primary
school is probably still upset by some of these choices.
Your favorites worked well for you. Meeting him before, he
seemed very happy of the forty years that he's had
with you. Now, if you've just tuned in, my guest
is Ilakuma, who's the chair of the sorry I beg
(08:29):
your pardon, local board, the first Indian, a woman of
Indian origins, to be chairing a local board and also
achieving in all sorts of other areas. You got into
your sort of adult career through aerobics and Jesus size
and things like that, which seems like a very straight
(08:51):
considering the background that you've had. That seemed very strange.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
That sort of got me out of my shyness. I'd say,
my sister decided to pick up going to aerobics, and
at that time Wellesley Street had a great Jesus Size
Jesse Jetics place. It's now the Countdown there, but we
would come there every Sunday and I got interested in it.
I think the reason I got interested in it is
because we were kept in a very shaled home. You
(09:17):
weren't allowed to go out as much. We had to
stay home. Went't allowed to go to clubs or anything
like that because the girls got to do that. And
going into the gym in that particular time, hearing music,
getting allowed, being able to move, do what you're like,
I just felt the freedom. And I think when the
gym had a course running for aerobics instructors, I thought,
(09:40):
let's give it a go. I'm putting so many hours
into this after work. Let me go and see what
it's about. And I paid a bit of money to
get this across, but I wanted to earn that money
back in case I don't carry on. I don't want
to waste it. So here I went along, did the course,
went and got a job who paid me a bit
of cash to do the classes. And this was in
downtown and I did about ten classes to cover my
(10:03):
cost at that time, and from that picking up classes,
going into Universe to recreational facility who gave me a
summer program classes. It just grew my wings.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Again. Let's just come back to you. This is set
against the background totally. How did your parents feel about, say,
the clothes that you wear.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
When you do it around as a no. No. Parents
weren't very happy with the aerobics that I picked up
as an interest. I think the community at large, we're
not accepting that as a profession. I don't think it
was seen as a profession at all, really, and I
think it was not accepting the clothing. Yep, clothing was
a big issue for us. We were brought up to
where our full saris or whether there are traditional solool comees,
(10:45):
which is like a long top.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Very hard to do aerobics in.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
There, very hard. Even wearing sleeveless tops and stuff like that.
We just weren't allowed to. So there were challenges. We'd
have to go into the gym with my full clothing
on and then go there quickly, get changed most of
the time, and then put it back on again to
leave to go back home right again.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So you spoke earlier how you wouldn't change a thing.
You were so appre of your culture, and you know,
a big booster of your culture and a promoter of it,
and yet you are you sort of wriggled out of
it in some ways.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I think I try to keep my culture within me regardless.
I don't want to change that. I think I'm quite
strong about that. It is who I am. But I
think there's ways we can actually find where we can
follow a journey that can actually help us to be
better people, not making drastic changes and going against my culture.
But yes, aerobics was at that time going against it.
(11:41):
But now it's taken a three sixty degree turn and
people accept it to be their health and wellbeing of
a person, and they actually allow that to be something
that they encourage and wanted in their own facilities. I
do the Mahtma Gandhi Center every Saturday morning as a volunteer,
and I do fitness there in all ages, all men
and women, elderly, young, all come along wearing a sari,
(12:05):
wearing a clild, comes wearing tights of want to but
the freedom of allowing them to wear what they want.
We do that and I do that is to give back.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Now, it's how you take those classes.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I do I do as a volunteer.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
You are changing your culture.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I am changing the culture to the better. I hope,
I hope.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh, I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are. So
this was giving you, you know, this idea of aerobics
making you physically strong a performance aspect to it expressive thing.
So it really did give you confidence.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Oh, it empowered me. I think getting people to go yeah,
it may when you can tell someone, especially being an Indian.
I think it was the first time I felt when
I taught people to go right, people went right. When
I taught people to go left, people went left. I
think it helped me to be able to know that
I can do things. I think it really changed the
way I felt on what I'm able to do, and
(13:00):
that took a long time to get out. Even though
the coaching at Knitball, getting into putting up my hand
at the high school or whether it's into work, I
think this helped a lot more to get my confidence out.
And I still can remember one day we were having
this like coming from a big home, lots of people
in that house, and all of us sort of got
(13:21):
a bit of trouble. The kids had to go into
the room and dad and mom must have said something
and I went up to Mom and dad. This the
first time I actually said to mom and dad or
maybe don't talk to us like that. Wow, Now I
remember my mom saying something to me, and I just
walked straight into the room. But then times we never
did that and we never said anything to our parents.
We just listened. But there was the first time I
said maybe there's another way to talk to us, and
(13:44):
that was another start of a change of what was
coming through. I had two our older sisters in me,
and of course with the two older sisters has been
a bit more quieter. This was a change coming through
for us.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
My guest tonight is Elikuma, who her son describes as
the prime Minister of Mount Roskell, making changes not just
within her own culture, but within a community as well.
We'll be back more with some of her reflections on culture, life,
religion and perhaps the prospects of the region that she
represents as a local politician. This is real life. I'm
(14:17):
John Cown. You're listening to News Talks.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
EDB intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I just know my guest wants to dance to the
Ela Kuma, who's the chair of the Pooky Tar Pappa,
Pookie Tar Papa. I'll get it right, Community board. This
is a special song for you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
It sure is. The words just say it. I want
to break free and that is exactly what throughout my
whole life, if I think about it, from the time
I started going to school, to high school, right through
to work even now, there are times when I just
want to break free.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I imagine sitting in community community board meetings. There be
times when you just want to get out of there,
wouldn't you. But you seem to relish these challenges I do.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I actually love what I do. I think that's really important.
And I think if you do that, even though you
want to break free, most of the time, you take
the challenges and you grow with them. And I've learned
a lot in life through that. I take every challenge
as a positive, not a negative.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Even the ones that don't work out well.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Even the ones that don't work out well, because it's
no use no use worrying about it, no use thinking
what what can I do go against it? Just take
the challenge and find the best out of it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Are you a political person?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I often say to people I'm not, and I get
told you are because you were actually sitting on local board.
But I don't see that as a political place.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So you're not within any party structure or anything.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
No, of course, we go through local body elections and
you sit on a ticket and the ticket I'm on,
and if everyone looked at it, they'd able to see
the history of it. That ticket was brought out to
stop politics to get onto local politics.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, that sounds like a very healthy thing. I can
remember a time when local body politics wasn't pot and
I think we were better served. But it totally by
that system, totally. Now before the break about standing up
to your parents, but I heard a story about how
you and one of your first forays into sort of
(16:17):
community leadership was being the secretary of a committee that
your father was on.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's right. We have our own organizations and I belonged
to one of them, and I decided to take a
position as a member and then into an executive committee
and then as a secretary. So it was the first
female that went into this particular organization and it wasn't
accepted as well. My dad was also on there. He
did very well to keeping the foundation of that committee going.
(16:44):
But I do think that time I was thinking in
my head a little bit of change needs to come through,
not to change the constitution, but the way we actually
adopt and allow people to get on help support. I
think that change needed to come through. So, yeah, I
became the secretary. You get nominated and I put my
hand up to and then I got elected on. And
(17:05):
I remember going to a meeting one day with Dad
because he's still on the committee. Took him a long
time to actually move away from it. And every time
I went to a meeting, I said to him, Dad,
don't forget when we walk through them doors, I am
the secretary. We're both in a committee. You're not my dad,
so you may not like what I say sometimes, but
when we walk out, I'll be your daughter again. So
(17:27):
that took a while.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Even though in the first half of specially, you were
talking about how Indian women had certain expectations marriage and
not a career, not expected to be very public in
their careers, and your dad was part of this old
school Indian culture. And yet I've also heard you credit
(17:49):
your dad with a lot of the community spirit stuff
that's so big in your world.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, I think I've got to understand where Dad was
coming from. And I think even now there are times
when I think Dad is that's him. I can't change that.
That's a culture he came and grew up with. What
he grew up with, and what has stayed with even
though he took his work ethics slightly differently. Yeah, my
upbringing and the way I do my children is slightly different,
(18:15):
but still trying to keep our culture alive in them,
trying to get them to understand that that's quick keeping
you as a rich person. It's not about money. It's
about the person that you've got and you've inherited it,
don't let it go. And I think Dad tried to
keep our culture alive through his children. And for that reason,
even though it was hard bringing us to New Zealand,
trying to keep us within the Indian culture and not
(18:37):
take so much of the European culture. I think it
was challenging for them as parents, and I think they
were scared that we may go for European and I
think that was worrying for them.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I just as I was driving here tonight, I saw
an Indian girl with her European boyfriend, and I imagine
that's not a prevalent, but probably not an unfamiliar, not
anymore situation, but it would have been frowned upon when
you were great.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Totally. There were a few of our community people at
that time, remember just marrying like when we were to
get married, we were told you had to be within
their own committee or community, and these people didn't.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Do that and were the ostracized from it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
They were, Yes, they were, definitely and they now accepted
a little bit more better. And I don't know if
it was it was probably when we think about it now,
it's wrong, definitely wrong. But they were just trying to
keep the culture with the way it was, and I
think the understandings come through now. I've got two children
who have who've actually both married. My daughter, we're from
(19:41):
North India and she's married as South Indian, so even
that's at that time was very difficult for her. But
parents have now accepted it too. So that was very hard.
And here we were bringing up our children that you
had to marry within this culture, this committee, this community,
and that was hard for my children too.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
As well as being a local body politician. And you're
also a JP and also a marriage celebrant.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yes, sure, and so.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
When you're talking to couples, yeah, you can understand sometimes
that they will be coming from these that's right situations.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I've done a lot of weddings of different whether it's
an Indian marrying a Chinese, whether they're marrying a European,
whether they're marrying someone that's totally out of their community.
I think at the end of the day, it's made
me feel comfortable now to do these weddings knowing that
they are, they are with the people they want. They
still got a culture. They've both got a culture each,
(20:36):
and they need to understand that probably when their life
goes further down the track, how they're going to deal
with it when children come along. But right now, at
that time, they both actually cultures are great to actually
bring together.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
What about religion.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You're a Hindu, yes, some are Hindu.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
How much of that? How much is that part of
your say, daily life?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And thought it's interesting that you raised it. I got
told the other day that you're probably They said I
was a Kiwi Indian and I said, you say, I am,
But they said, but you've got more Indian than you
than you have, like as if you were in New Zealand.
Most of them change. Your accent is like a European,
but when you look at you, the way you dress,
the tire, it's all Indian. And I think for me
(21:19):
the Hindu culture is something that I actually we celebrate
it so worldwide. The religion sides there. A lot of
us have different parts of religion that we all do differently.
All Indians have different parts of it that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
They so different Hindus will have They might celebrate the
same festivals, but they have different expressions and experiences of
their religion.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yep. Each Hindu will have a different sort of group
and that group believes in certain parts of the religion
that for example, I'm a strict vegetarian, another Hindu may
not be. But they've got different celebrations that when we
all do the same celebration like Dvali that's coming up
with some festivals that we all just celebrate and that's
common for all Hindus.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Right now, Dwali's coming up. What part What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Divali is just an amazing event that's just taken off worldwide.
It is Indian Christmas. It is definitely Indian Christmas. In
the next day pretty much is New Year. So the calendar, yes,
they celebrate our twelvemonth. They have the same calendar and
they celebrate Christmas, but they don't celebrate Christmas like the
way we celebrate it. Special foods, foods, presents, elders give
(22:29):
new clothing, they give money to youngsters. All that's done
during Devali time.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
If we have Indian friends and workmates, what should we
do or say it?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Do you have a just happy Devali.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And get along to some of the festivals and along
to the festivals.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Don't think it. Auckland Council's got these next weekend right now.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Auckland is now a majority non Europeans, that's right, which
just makes us a very very diversity. There's still not
many people of color in our local politics and it's
not reflected in the council. So come on, do a
shout out and encourage people to get into leadership.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I do think that we need to get that change
to happen in big time. The first time I got
elected in twenty ten and I went to the twenty
one local boards get together. There was myself in one
other Chinese person at that time, and the one thing
we said was, gosh, we've got to work hard to
get more representation of our wider communities into local politics.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you. Your positivity
and encouragement in the way that you're prepared to get
in there and change things. That's been fantastic. We'll go
out in another other song that you've scraped. What have
we got?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Well, this time you've got now. I'm sure it's a
love this feeling, love this feeling.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I've been talking with Elakuma and it's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
This is real life on News Talk S EDB. Looking
forward to being back with you again next week.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
For more from News Talk SAIDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on Iartradio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.