March 23, 2025 • 22 mins
Paul Goldsmith is a dedicated New Zealand politician, currently serving as the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, Minister of Justice, Minister for Media and Communications, and Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. Born in Mt Eden and educated at Auckland Grammar, he now lives in Epsom with his wife and four children.
Elected to Parliament in 2011 off the National Party list, Paul has held various Ministerial roles, including Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, and Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment. He also served as Chair of the Parliamentary Finance and Expenditure Select Committee and was an Auckland City Councillor from 2007 to 2010.
Before politics, Paul was a historian and biographer, publishing 10 books on New Zealand’s history and economic development. Outside of work, he’s passionate about music, holds a 2nd dan black belt in Taekwondo, and plays for the Parliamentary Rugby team.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Gooda and welcome to real Life. I'm John Cown and
my guest tonight is Government Minister the honorable Paul Goldsmith. Welcome, Paul, Hey,
how are you? I'm well. Now. As well as being
a politician, you're an author. You've written I think ten
books and eight of them are biographies. And we've only
got half an hour, but I thought it'd be fun
to make a start on yours and dive into your story.
(00:40):
Yeah up for that?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, well yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Right, we'll start with we'll start with the fly leaf,
which is just sort of the introduction as to who
the book's about. So a quick description. Paul Goldsmith is
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, Minister of Justice, Minister
for Media and Communications and Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
For Trivia BOITANGI Negotiations.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
That's right. Born in Mount Eden and having attended Auckland
Grammar School, Paul lives with his wife and their four
children in the EPSOM electorate. Is first elected off the
National Party list in twenty eleven. Okay, so that'll go
on the fly leaf, Paul, what else could we add
as to what you're currently doing. What's what's filling your
calendar just at the moment.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, we're big focus of the government is to restore
law and order, and so justice is a major focus.
Trying to make people create an environment where people feel
safe in their communities, and that combination of restoring real
consequences for crime, but also dealing with those long term
(01:43):
sort of drivers. You know, so if you think of
youth crime, for example, you know, getting kids to actually
go to school is a good place to start, and
so you're dealing with the long term drivers and you're
also dealing with the sort of consequences.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So that's keeping me very busy.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, so let's move on to say chapter one your
four Bears, the where did the goldsmiths start in New Zealand?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Ah, Well, different strands obviously, but the first goldsmith, my
great great grandfather, arrived in the eighteen forties in Gisbon
and he was a trader, very mixed up with the
early history. Funnily enough, I was just looking at one
(02:26):
of the books that's up for an award at the
Book Awards this year as a history of the New
Zealand Wars, and one of the elements of that is
forty and his war, and my great granddaddy was very
mixed up with that. Two of his kids were actually
killed in massacre back then, so.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Early history on the East coast.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Famously, he was very enthusiastic fellow. He had a couple
of wives and a couple of Maori wives, and so
I'm related to many Nati Paro out there, which famously
led to a bit of confusion at one point with
Nikki Kay.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So there's that.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
And on my mother's side as well, there's all sorts
of different strands as Scott's and these.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Turners. One guy came, so I got lots of well,
I like all New Zealanders go back a long way.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
The Turner dynasty is quite famous.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yes, yes, so my mother was a turner and so
my great great grand parents on that side came from Cambridge,
the UK. Actually they were fruit and vegie operators there
and then they came out in the eighteen eighties and
settled and formed Turners and Grows which was a great
company and fine ed exported fruit and many things.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So yeah, I can remember going into Turners and Growers
markets early in the morning back in the seventies when
I was working for an orchard and just being amazed
at that huge operation that was going there.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yes, well, I over my university holidays. You still to
work in there starting at three o'clock on a Tuesday morning,
Monday and Thursday mornings, and I was in charge of
Indian vegetables for a while.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I remember that it was all good fun and a
great experience.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yea, actually, actually that's the boy. But I remember the
market's being a very cross cultural place. I watched lots
of Chinese and Indian people working there and it was
a fascinating place. Now you tell me about Margaret and Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well, well, my parents and dad was a school teacher,
a maths teacher actually grandma for many years and you
know that's still both going strong. And my mother was
a nurse, finished up as a hospice nurse for a
long time at Mercy Hospital. We had a we had said,
a wonderful upbringing.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Grew up in Mount Roscale, down the end of Dominion Road,
and I was, you know, reportunate to be raised in
a loving home and with a couple of sisters and
a brother and a family that really focused on on
education and good, good values, and I was very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Now you've mentioned a couple of times, even when speaking
in the house, about your Baptist heritage, and I guess
Mount Roskell would have been the heart of of the
sort of the Baptist Bible belt of Auckland back then,
with the hay family and people like that.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And yes, my best best mate at primary school was
one of the Hayes. And yes, my my my grandfather
on the Goldsmith side was a Baptist minister, Rex Goldsmith,
and so that was very much part of the world
and all the journals were all into the Baptist Church,
(05:54):
and so that was very much.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
My upbringing at Mount Talbot, all right. I met my wife.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
There and it was a very important part of my
sort of teenage years.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And you say it was an important part, Well, how
is that composted down in your life now?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, I would describe myself as doubting Thomas. I suppose
very extremely shaped by that up upbringing. I'm not sort
of an active church goer these days, but still very well,
who knows what the future holds. I actually sort of
(06:37):
drifted from the Baptist to Anglicanism during my university period
actually studied at Saint John's for a paper an Old
Testament history and so forth, and the course of that all.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I suppose complicated some of my earlier understanding.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
So I am I'm a I'm a like I say,
doubting Thomas, but still very connected with the overall world.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Right. You referred to how had it influenced you when
you were talking about the Definition of Marriage Act back
in twenty and thirteen.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yes, I can't remember that, but yes it's possible.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, Well you were talking about how it had created
within you a lot of very conservative views, but you
drew on your also the Baptist heritage of not being conformist.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yes, nonconformist. Well, that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I mean the people, I think often assume that the
Baptist tradition and they think of the Southern Baptists in
the US, and they think of extreme conservatism.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And that's certainly a strand.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
But another strand of the Baptist tradition was very much
the being nonconformist, being very much driven by individual conscious
conscience and you know, a personal sort of view, and
we're radical in their time. So yeah, there's different strands
(08:16):
that people emphasize at different times.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, Okay, So you do reflect obviously a lot on life.
You've you know, when you put yourself into the heads
of people, and when you're doing your biographies that you've written,
and when you're thinking about things, and so you probably thought,
even though you describe yourself as a doubter, you've probably
thought a lot about your faith over the years. And
I'm just wondering, do you see it impacting any of
(08:42):
your political ideas.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yes, obviously one's heritage very much shaped the thinking and
our way of life in New Zealanders. It's been hugely
shaped by the Christian outlook and as interpreted through the
(09:10):
sort of British institutions that we've inherited with, you know,
strong all the sort of the human rights tradition, the
the personal responsibility sort of strand and our thinking personal accountability.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I suppose.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
All all of those things sort of are deeply reflected
by where we come from.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
And and I think, you know, it has been a
good thing.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And in many respects I will focus on education, on
striving to do well. You know a number of people
I've written biographies about have been influenced by the parable
of the talents and and and the sort of the
notion that you know, to whom much is given, much
(10:04):
as expected.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And you know, many New Zealanders have.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Benefited from, you know, in global terms, a wonderful upbringing
and a great education. And you should get out and
do some stuff and make have some purpose in life
and set out to achieve something which is fundamentally about
looking after Your first obligation is to look after your
(10:30):
yourself and your family. Then also to I think make
a contribution in the professional sense of of whatever, you know,
whatever that is, whether it's making houses or fixing people's
teeth or whatever one chooses to do. And then if
you've got a bit of energy and time left, also
making contribution.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
In the voluntary sector, in the community and being.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So that that would be the order of priorities that
you would see.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well, I think you've got I think a good a
good productive life is doing doing all those things.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
If you've just joined us, I'm talking with the honorable
Paul Goldsmith and the break we'll be talking about why
it's probably not a good idea to get into a
physical fight with him. This is real life on News
Talk z'b. Welcome back, to Real Life and we're listening
to some music that's been picked by our guest tonight,
Paul Goldsmith. What are we listening to there, Paul.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Well, it's a piece from the most recent Crowded House album,
Gravity Stars, and I love it. I think it's just
got a beautiful, warm, crowded house sort of tone and
feel with the little sort of background sort of vocals
coming in.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I just like it.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I've always been a fan of Split Ends and Crowded House,
one of the great New Zealand bands, and I always
like it when late in their career these musicians keep
putting out great stuff. One of the earlier one was
a Bob Dylan one, and he's another example where he's
been going forever, but some of his most recent stuff
(12:05):
is as good as he's ever been at. I just
I suppose I'm getting a bit old myself, and I
like it when some of the oldies keep on producing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So you're amuso yourself. Can do you play any of
their music?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, yeah, I played the piano and mainly classical music,
but yeah I do knock out the odd crowded house tune.
And it's an occupational hasn't because the word has got
out that I played the piano quite often. I turn
up somewhere and people pointed a piano and insisted I
sit down and play it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
A couple of things up my sleeve, your party pieces
that you can roll out without too much prayer. Now,
I was interested that as well as your music, you're
also into taekwon do, and I imagine both music and
your martial arts put your head at a different place,
which must be quite useful when you're involved as as
(13:03):
intense as politics.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, I probably I probably should update my own I'll
give you a little bit. When I first came into Parliament,
I had been doing wonder quite a lot, and I've
got a second done and I love it, and my
kids were doing it. I haven't done a hang of
a lot of it formally recently, although the sort of
the elements of you know, if I ever get in
(13:25):
front of a kicking pad.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Down at Parliament, I will go through my routines.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
But probably my primary form of exercise these days is
a game of tennis on the weekend, which I love,
and short runs around the waterfront down in Wellington. The
parliamentary day is, you know, typically starts at well before eight.
It is at ten o'clock at night or after ten o'clock.
(13:53):
Parliament sits through to ten o'clock on a Tuesday and
or Wednesday night, and I find that I'd just go
bonkers if I don't get out and go for a
bit of a run in the sometime in the middle
of the day, gets some fresh air, and on a
rare occasion, well actually not totally over the summer, I'll
run around to Oriental Parade and swim out to.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
The little little deck that there is out there and
run back wet, and I feel like I'm on top
of the world.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay, so you need stuff stuff like that to keep
your brain from shriveling up.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Well, I had the view that we're, you know, we're
physical beings were you know, we're designed to be active
and get out and do things, and so I certainly
think it's very important to just try and get some
physical exercise into the day.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right when you were more active in your martial arts,
could you do those speady leaping kick things.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, yes, yes, you had to the old reverse spinning
back hook kick or something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I used to enjoy and messy and chopolates of wood
and do things is great fun, and I got into
it during university when I was studying history. Did in
m A and history and again sort of sit around
reading books is all well and good. But if you
had an hour and a half at the end of
the day where you just jumped up and down and
(15:16):
yelled and hit pads and kicked and had fights and
things like that, it was a good way to let
off a bit of steam and then you felt a
lot better at the end.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But now you're in parliament, you don't need to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Well, it's not the kind of lifestyle that lends itself
to being available at seven o'clock on a Tuesday night
on a regular basis. On the downside, six it's very
hard to sort of do things on a regular basis
because something's always coming up.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I like the definition of poise as power held in control,
and your poise in Parliament must in part be based
on the knowledge that, if you wanted to, you could
leap across the floor of the house and do one
of those spinny flying kicks. And so members opposite. If
you're listening, take note. Now you mentioned history and you
did your ma I think on colenso is that right,
(16:07):
but you also had that Auckland Grammar experience. Now it's interesting,
how does that permanently implying people towards a life where
you're expected to strive and it seems to have a
personality to it a school.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Well, yes, John Graham was the headmaster when I was there,
and he was former All Black captain and an extremely
impressive figure. And striving for excellence was the kind of
the sub theme. Yeah, you were expected to whether it's
academically or sporting or well, a very strong emphasis on
(16:50):
academic but also music or whatever you were doing, you know,
sort of the idea wasn't just to necessarily participate.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It was to do the best that you can.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And I think, you know, as a nation, a bit
of ambition there's no bad thing, and we should be striving.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Do you think that would be a good thing to
inject into the wider educational system?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Yes, well, I mean Grammar is continues in that vein
and I think, yes, I think there is the need
for ambition, and I think it's a fair criticism of
some elements of the education system. Will journally they seem
(17:37):
to have a focus on maintaining well being at all costs,
and that's all well and good, but you know that's
a big bad world out there. We live in a
competitive world, and I want to maintain the kind of
living standards that we've got used to. You know, it
doesn't sort.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Of land on our plate. We've got to go out
there and compete and do well. And so.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
New Zealanders have always found ways to succeed in little
niches all over the place and to keep on finding it.
And that requires people to.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Reach for the stars, as it were.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Now, one of your first working job working roles was
with the White Hangy Tribunal, and it's still an ongoing
part of your role.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It's looped back. Yes, quite surprising.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, So I'd like to throw to you a thought exercise.
Imagine for the bicentenary of the treaty, there is presented
to the country already completed and negotiated a treaty mark two.
I mean, it strikes me that the current treaty is
treated like a bit like a raw sharking blot, where
people project onto it what they think the treaty should be. Yes,
(18:45):
but this is a new treaty, negotiated and agreed to
by all parties, A treaty mark two for the two seconds,
you know, for the bicentenary. What would you like that
treaty to clearly state and plaim.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Well, look, it's a obviously quite a thought area with
lots of different views that the simple way I look
at it as a country, what we're trying to do
is to or recognize and honor commitments made back in
(19:21):
eighteen forty, but also more recently in treaty settlements that
recognized things that went wrong over the years, while at
the same time never losing sight of the basic expectations
of people living in a modern democratic society. And those
basic expectations are that you know, you'll have equal voting rights,
(19:44):
that you will be treated equally before the law, and
that broadly speaking, people will have an equal say in
matters affecting their lives, and you know, a standard of citizenship.
So those are basic expectations that people have them quite
rightly so and you know you can. So there's a
bit of a tension between those two things, and it
(20:06):
sort of oscillates it in our politicical view is that
the previous administration that under Cindra R.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Burnham and co.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Veered off off too far and away from those universal
expectations in certain areas, and the most dramatic one being
in the Canterbury Regional Council Bill where they sort of
moved away from equal voting rights, allowing Naitahu to appoint.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Counselors and so forth.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
And you know, I worry about that, and so we've
got to sort of deal with those border issues, right, okay,
carefully with goodwill, because you know, I think one of
the strengths of our country is that, broadly speaking, we
do have strong levels of social cohesion, and we could
have maintained that, and so we work through that in
(20:55):
a careful and considered lay.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
In your maiden speech you said your greatest nervousness was
how public life might impact your children. And now you've
had quite an extensive experience and parliament, how has it
impacted them?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
But I'll look, I've been I mean, of course, the
greatest joy of my life. Two have left home and
two are still at home and they're all doing well.
And politics varies enormously if you're if you're the electorate
in p in a provincial town, you have a lot
(21:31):
more focus on you and your family than you do
if you're a listing p in Auckland, for example.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
So they haven't had enormous pressure.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
There's been times when they've had had slightly embarrassing circumstances
and they've had to answer essay questions on quotes from
me and things like that, which has been great.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But all in all they've done pretty well.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
And obviously I've had a big focus on spending as
much time as i can whenever I do. One of
the things that writing biographies inoculates you against the idea
of is that no matter what you do in your
life and how successful you are, if you get towards
you your life and your core relationships aren't in great shape,
world life is a failure. And so I've always always
(22:15):
had a real focus on that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Paul, thank you so much for being part of Real
Life tonight. I've enjoyed talking with you. We'll go out
on another song that you've picked. It's Bob Dylan. You've
got to serve somebody. This has been real life on
News Talk s EDB. Looking forward to being back with
you again next Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
For more from News Talk SEDB, listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you go.
With our podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Gooda and welcome to real Life. I'm John Cown and
my guest tonight is Government Minister the honorable Paul Goldsmith. Welcome, Paul, Hey,
how are you? I'm well. Now. As well as being
a politician, you're an author. You've written I think ten
books and eight of them are biographies. And we've only
got half an hour, but I thought it'd be fun
to make a start on yours and dive into your story.
(00:40):
Yeah up for that?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, well yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Right, we'll start with we'll start with the fly leaf,
which is just sort of the introduction as to who
the book's about. So a quick description. Paul Goldsmith is
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, Minister of Justice, Minister
for Media and Communications and Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
For Trivia BOITANGI Negotiations.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
That's right. Born in Mount Eden and having attended Auckland
Grammar School, Paul lives with his wife and their four
children in the EPSOM electorate. Is first elected off the
National Party list in twenty eleven. Okay, so that'll go
on the fly leaf, Paul, what else could we add
as to what you're currently doing. What's what's filling your
calendar just at the moment.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, we're big focus of the government is to restore
law and order, and so justice is a major focus.
Trying to make people create an environment where people feel
safe in their communities, and that combination of restoring real
consequences for crime, but also dealing with those long term
(01:43):
sort of drivers. You know, so if you think of
youth crime, for example, you know, getting kids to actually
go to school is a good place to start, and
so you're dealing with the long term drivers and you're
also dealing with the sort of consequences.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So that's keeping me very busy.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, so let's move on to say chapter one your
four Bears, the where did the goldsmiths start in New Zealand?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Ah, Well, different strands obviously, but the first goldsmith, my
great great grandfather, arrived in the eighteen forties in Gisbon
and he was a trader, very mixed up with the
early history. Funnily enough, I was just looking at one
(02:26):
of the books that's up for an award at the
Book Awards this year as a history of the New
Zealand Wars, and one of the elements of that is
forty and his war, and my great granddaddy was very
mixed up with that. Two of his kids were actually
killed in massacre back then, so.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Early history on the East coast.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Famously, he was very enthusiastic fellow. He had a couple
of wives and a couple of Maori wives, and so
I'm related to many Nati Paro out there, which famously
led to a bit of confusion at one point with
Nikki Kay.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So there's that.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
And on my mother's side as well, there's all sorts
of different strands as Scott's and these.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Turners. One guy came, so I got lots of well,
I like all New Zealanders go back a long way.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
The Turner dynasty is quite famous.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yes, yes, so my mother was a turner and so
my great great grand parents on that side came from Cambridge,
the UK. Actually they were fruit and vegie operators there
and then they came out in the eighteen eighties and
settled and formed Turners and Grows which was a great
company and fine ed exported fruit and many things.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So yeah, I can remember going into Turners and Growers
markets early in the morning back in the seventies when
I was working for an orchard and just being amazed
at that huge operation that was going there.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yes, well, I over my university holidays. You still to
work in there starting at three o'clock on a Tuesday morning,
Monday and Thursday mornings, and I was in charge of
Indian vegetables for a while.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I remember that it was all good fun and a
great experience.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yea, actually, actually that's the boy. But I remember the
market's being a very cross cultural place. I watched lots
of Chinese and Indian people working there and it was
a fascinating place. Now you tell me about Margaret and Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well, well, my parents and dad was a school teacher,
a maths teacher actually grandma for many years and you
know that's still both going strong. And my mother was
a nurse, finished up as a hospice nurse for a
long time at Mercy Hospital. We had a we had said,
a wonderful upbringing.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Grew up in Mount Roscale, down the end of Dominion Road,
and I was, you know, reportunate to be raised in
a loving home and with a couple of sisters and
a brother and a family that really focused on on
education and good, good values, and I was very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Now you've mentioned a couple of times, even when speaking
in the house, about your Baptist heritage, and I guess
Mount Roskell would have been the heart of of the
sort of the Baptist Bible belt of Auckland back then,
with the hay family and people like that.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And yes, my best best mate at primary school was
one of the Hayes. And yes, my my my grandfather
on the Goldsmith side was a Baptist minister, Rex Goldsmith,
and so that was very much part of the world
and all the journals were all into the Baptist Church,
(05:54):
and so that was very much.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
My upbringing at Mount Talbot, all right. I met my wife.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
There and it was a very important part of my
sort of teenage years.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And you say it was an important part, Well, how
is that composted down in your life now?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, I would describe myself as doubting Thomas. I suppose
very extremely shaped by that up upbringing. I'm not sort
of an active church goer these days, but still very well,
who knows what the future holds. I actually sort of
(06:37):
drifted from the Baptist to Anglicanism during my university period
actually studied at Saint John's for a paper an Old
Testament history and so forth, and the course of that all.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I suppose complicated some of my earlier understanding.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
So I am I'm a I'm a like I say,
doubting Thomas, but still very connected with the overall world.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Right. You referred to how had it influenced you when
you were talking about the Definition of Marriage Act back
in twenty and thirteen.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yes, I can't remember that, but yes it's possible.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, Well you were talking about how it had created
within you a lot of very conservative views, but you
drew on your also the Baptist heritage of not being conformist.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yes, nonconformist. Well, that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I mean the people, I think often assume that the
Baptist tradition and they think of the Southern Baptists in
the US, and they think of extreme conservatism.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And that's certainly a strand.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
But another strand of the Baptist tradition was very much
the being nonconformist, being very much driven by individual conscious
conscience and you know, a personal sort of view, and
we're radical in their time. So yeah, there's different strands
(08:16):
that people emphasize at different times.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, Okay, So you do reflect obviously a lot on life.
You've you know, when you put yourself into the heads
of people, and when you're doing your biographies that you've written,
and when you're thinking about things, and so you probably thought,
even though you describe yourself as a doubter, you've probably
thought a lot about your faith over the years. And
I'm just wondering, do you see it impacting any of
(08:42):
your political ideas.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yes, obviously one's heritage very much shaped the thinking and
our way of life in New Zealanders. It's been hugely
shaped by the Christian outlook and as interpreted through the
(09:10):
sort of British institutions that we've inherited with, you know,
strong all the sort of the human rights tradition, the
the personal responsibility sort of strand and our thinking personal accountability.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I suppose.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
All all of those things sort of are deeply reflected
by where we come from.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
And and I think, you know, it has been a
good thing.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And in many respects I will focus on education, on
striving to do well. You know a number of people
I've written biographies about have been influenced by the parable
of the talents and and and the sort of the
notion that you know, to whom much is given, much
(10:04):
as expected.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And you know, many New Zealanders have.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Benefited from, you know, in global terms, a wonderful upbringing
and a great education. And you should get out and
do some stuff and make have some purpose in life
and set out to achieve something which is fundamentally about
looking after Your first obligation is to look after your
(10:30):
yourself and your family. Then also to I think make
a contribution in the professional sense of of whatever, you know,
whatever that is, whether it's making houses or fixing people's
teeth or whatever one chooses to do. And then if
you've got a bit of energy and time left, also
making contribution.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
In the voluntary sector, in the community and being.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So that that would be the order of priorities that
you would see.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well, I think you've got I think a good a
good productive life is doing doing all those things.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
If you've just joined us, I'm talking with the honorable
Paul Goldsmith and the break we'll be talking about why
it's probably not a good idea to get into a
physical fight with him. This is real life on News
Talk z'b. Welcome back, to Real Life and we're listening
to some music that's been picked by our guest tonight,
Paul Goldsmith. What are we listening to there, Paul.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Well, it's a piece from the most recent Crowded House album,
Gravity Stars, and I love it. I think it's just
got a beautiful, warm, crowded house sort of tone and
feel with the little sort of background sort of vocals
coming in.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I just like it.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I've always been a fan of Split Ends and Crowded House,
one of the great New Zealand bands, and I always
like it when late in their career these musicians keep
putting out great stuff. One of the earlier one was
a Bob Dylan one, and he's another example where he's
been going forever, but some of his most recent stuff
(12:05):
is as good as he's ever been at. I just
I suppose I'm getting a bit old myself, and I
like it when some of the oldies keep on producing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So you're amuso yourself. Can do you play any of
their music?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, yeah, I played the piano and mainly classical music,
but yeah I do knock out the odd crowded house tune.
And it's an occupational hasn't because the word has got
out that I played the piano quite often. I turn
up somewhere and people pointed a piano and insisted I
sit down and play it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
A couple of things up my sleeve, your party pieces
that you can roll out without too much prayer. Now,
I was interested that as well as your music, you're
also into taekwon do, and I imagine both music and
your martial arts put your head at a different place,
which must be quite useful when you're involved as as
(13:03):
intense as politics.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, I probably I probably should update my own I'll
give you a little bit. When I first came into Parliament,
I had been doing wonder quite a lot, and I've
got a second done and I love it, and my
kids were doing it. I haven't done a hang of
a lot of it formally recently, although the sort of
the elements of you know, if I ever get in
(13:25):
front of a kicking pad.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Down at Parliament, I will go through my routines.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
But probably my primary form of exercise these days is
a game of tennis on the weekend, which I love,
and short runs around the waterfront down in Wellington. The
parliamentary day is, you know, typically starts at well before eight.
It is at ten o'clock at night or after ten o'clock.
(13:53):
Parliament sits through to ten o'clock on a Tuesday and
or Wednesday night, and I find that I'd just go
bonkers if I don't get out and go for a
bit of a run in the sometime in the middle
of the day, gets some fresh air, and on a
rare occasion, well actually not totally over the summer, I'll
run around to Oriental Parade and swim out to.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
The little little deck that there is out there and
run back wet, and I feel like I'm on top
of the world.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay, so you need stuff stuff like that to keep
your brain from shriveling up.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Well, I had the view that we're, you know, we're
physical beings were you know, we're designed to be active
and get out and do things, and so I certainly
think it's very important to just try and get some
physical exercise into the day.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right when you were more active in your martial arts,
could you do those speady leaping kick things.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, yes, yes, you had to the old reverse spinning
back hook kick or something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I used to enjoy and messy and chopolates of wood
and do things is great fun, and I got into
it during university when I was studying history. Did in
m A and history and again sort of sit around
reading books is all well and good. But if you
had an hour and a half at the end of
the day where you just jumped up and down and
(15:16):
yelled and hit pads and kicked and had fights and
things like that, it was a good way to let
off a bit of steam and then you felt a
lot better at the end.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But now you're in parliament, you don't need to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Well, it's not the kind of lifestyle that lends itself
to being available at seven o'clock on a Tuesday night
on a regular basis. On the downside, six it's very
hard to sort of do things on a regular basis
because something's always coming up.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I like the definition of poise as power held in control,
and your poise in Parliament must in part be based
on the knowledge that, if you wanted to, you could
leap across the floor of the house and do one
of those spinny flying kicks. And so members opposite. If
you're listening, take note. Now you mentioned history and you
did your ma I think on colenso is that right,
(16:07):
but you also had that Auckland Grammar experience. Now it's interesting,
how does that permanently implying people towards a life where
you're expected to strive and it seems to have a
personality to it a school.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Well, yes, John Graham was the headmaster when I was there,
and he was former All Black captain and an extremely
impressive figure. And striving for excellence was the kind of
the sub theme. Yeah, you were expected to whether it's
academically or sporting or well, a very strong emphasis on
(16:50):
academic but also music or whatever you were doing, you know,
sort of the idea wasn't just to necessarily participate.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It was to do the best that you can.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And I think, you know, as a nation, a bit
of ambition there's no bad thing, and we should be striving.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Do you think that would be a good thing to
inject into the wider educational system?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Yes, well, I mean Grammar is continues in that vein
and I think, yes, I think there is the need
for ambition, and I think it's a fair criticism of
some elements of the education system. Will journally they seem
(17:37):
to have a focus on maintaining well being at all costs,
and that's all well and good, but you know that's
a big bad world out there. We live in a
competitive world, and I want to maintain the kind of
living standards that we've got used to. You know, it
doesn't sort.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Of land on our plate. We've got to go out
there and compete and do well. And so.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
New Zealanders have always found ways to succeed in little
niches all over the place and to keep on finding it.
And that requires people to.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Reach for the stars, as it were.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Now, one of your first working job working roles was
with the White Hangy Tribunal, and it's still an ongoing
part of your role.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It's looped back. Yes, quite surprising.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, So I'd like to throw to you a thought exercise.
Imagine for the bicentenary of the treaty, there is presented
to the country already completed and negotiated a treaty mark two.
I mean, it strikes me that the current treaty is
treated like a bit like a raw sharking blot, where
people project onto it what they think the treaty should be. Yes,
(18:45):
but this is a new treaty, negotiated and agreed to
by all parties, A treaty mark two for the two seconds,
you know, for the bicentenary. What would you like that
treaty to clearly state and plaim.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Well, look, it's a obviously quite a thought area with
lots of different views that the simple way I look
at it as a country, what we're trying to do
is to or recognize and honor commitments made back in
(19:21):
eighteen forty, but also more recently in treaty settlements that
recognized things that went wrong over the years, while at
the same time never losing sight of the basic expectations
of people living in a modern democratic society. And those
basic expectations are that you know, you'll have equal voting rights,
(19:44):
that you will be treated equally before the law, and
that broadly speaking, people will have an equal say in
matters affecting their lives, and you know, a standard of citizenship.
So those are basic expectations that people have them quite
rightly so and you know you can. So there's a
bit of a tension between those two things, and it
(20:06):
sort of oscillates it in our politicical view is that
the previous administration that under Cindra R.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Burnham and co.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Veered off off too far and away from those universal
expectations in certain areas, and the most dramatic one being
in the Canterbury Regional Council Bill where they sort of
moved away from equal voting rights, allowing Naitahu to appoint.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Counselors and so forth.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
And you know, I worry about that, and so we've
got to sort of deal with those border issues, right, okay,
carefully with goodwill, because you know, I think one of
the strengths of our country is that, broadly speaking, we
do have strong levels of social cohesion, and we could
have maintained that, and so we work through that in
(20:55):
a careful and considered lay.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
In your maiden speech you said your greatest nervousness was
how public life might impact your children. And now you've
had quite an extensive experience and parliament, how has it
impacted them?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
But I'll look, I've been I mean, of course, the
greatest joy of my life. Two have left home and
two are still at home and they're all doing well.
And politics varies enormously if you're if you're the electorate
in p in a provincial town, you have a lot
(21:31):
more focus on you and your family than you do
if you're a listing p in Auckland, for example.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
So they haven't had enormous pressure.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
There's been times when they've had had slightly embarrassing circumstances
and they've had to answer essay questions on quotes from
me and things like that, which has been great.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But all in all they've done pretty well.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
And obviously I've had a big focus on spending as
much time as i can whenever I do. One of
the things that writing biographies inoculates you against the idea
of is that no matter what you do in your
life and how successful you are, if you get towards
you your life and your core relationships aren't in great shape,
world life is a failure. And so I've always always
(22:15):
had a real focus on that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Paul, thank you so much for being part of Real
Life tonight. I've enjoyed talking with you. We'll go out
on another song that you've picked. It's Bob Dylan. You've
got to serve somebody. This has been real life on
News Talk s EDB. Looking forward to being back with
you again next Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
For more from News Talk SEDB, listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you go.
With our podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.