April 13, 2025 • 24 mins
Josephine Bartley has been showing up for the Maungakiekie-Tāmaki community for over a decade — first on the Local Board, then as a city councillor. She’s the first Pacific woman elected to Auckland Council, and she’s not afraid to get stuck in, whether it’s helping clean up after floods, pushing for fewer liquor stores, or standing up for safer streets.
She grew up in Māngere, raised by hardworking Sāmoan parents who came here chasing a better life. Inspired by people like David Lange, she studied law to stand up against unfairness — especially the kind that people in her own community faced. Her journey’s always been about service and doing the mahi to make a real difference.
When she’s not working, you’ll probably find her baking coconut buns (pani popo), attending local events, or just being present for her people. She loves where she lives and is always doing her best to make it better for everyone.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good day, Welcome to real Life. I'm John Cowen and
my guest tonight helps run a city of one point
eight million people. Welcome to Auckland Councilor Josephine Bartley. Welcome Josephine.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thank you John, and a big hello to all your
listeners out there.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think you're going to find Josephine and her story fascinating.
And part of her story was becoming the first pacifica
woman to be elected to the super city Council. Josephine
was getting onto the council part of a long term
dream of yours.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It was, Yeah, I grew up in Mangoti, so I saw,
you know, a lot of Margoti was very David Longi
back then, and very labor you know, lots of labor
stickers everywhere. And I really liked the idea of this
caretaking role of a community. And so originally I had
(01:28):
aspirations thinking it was being a member of parliament, but
then I looked at City Council because it was more
about the city that I love and so yeah, it's
been an aspiration definitely.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Okay, you did have a shot at getting into central
government back in I think two thousand and eight that
you came second.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I think that's really generous to say I had
a shot running in a National Party stronghold since Robert
Muldoon times.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, that's right, Robert Muldoon from Tamaki, so you were
running up against pretty strong Blue opposition there. But then
since twenty ten you have been on local boards representing
a very special part of Auckland, the part of Auckland
that I find fascinating, the Tamaki Munga Kiki area, and
(02:26):
you've been so you've been representing them for about fifteen years.
What makes your area of Auckland so special? What do
you love about that part of Auckland that you live in.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yes, I've been on the local board since twenty ten
and then on the Auckland Council since twenty eighteen. I
just think this particular area is rich with the natural environment.
So we've got the Tammiki Estuary, the Monaco Harbor, Munga
Da Munga Keke and then the people are all diverse.
(02:59):
So it's a beautiful part of Auckland to call home.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I love cycling and that area that you describe. You
know some people with thinking, eh, you know, natural, natural
beauty and things. Yes, there's a ton of beautiful paths
and parks and manga and I just yeah, some of
my favorite rides are in your area. But it's to
tell us about the type of people that you'd find there.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Oh wow, See I grew up in MANGOI, so you
didn't have diversity of backgrounds there. Everybody was, you know,
a working class. My parents owned our home, so they
worked factory jobs. But everybody you know is yeah, you
didn't have like rich parts in Mangli, whereas here on
(03:51):
one side of the road you have multimillion dollar mansions.
You cross the road and it's state housing. So you know,
the diversity of backgrounds is that start here. But it's
also pretty awesome because you have everybody of different backgrounds mixing.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Right, And the ethnic mix is interesting there. I was
looking in Wikipedia and I see that pakiher European people
make up about forty two percent and the rest are
from all over the place. Mate, a lot of people
from the Pacific, but also from other parts of the
world as well.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yep, that's right. And where I live. I live in Gleniness,
so it is fifty percent basweaka Gleniness Point England, Pamure
and about twenty seven percent Maori. So it's a big
you know, there's it's just a massive, massive community of
(04:48):
different cultures and it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I love it right now. You mentioned that the it
was a National Party stronghold. You're a labor We've got
labor affiliations and it's an area that flip flops backwards
and forwards between National and Labor in recent elections. But
you keep on getting elect did Why do you think
they are the voters from this diverse area? Why do
(05:12):
they keep on voting for you? And yes, you are
allowed to say something good about yourself. I know that
there's the natural modesty that the specific people have where
they what's that phrase? The kumra does not speak of
its own sweetness, But you're allowed to say. Now, why
do you think people vote for you? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I really hope people vote for me because they see
I work hard for our communities. My hat is definitely
in it. I only do this because I care and
because I love this community. But you know, if I
lose that, then I shouldn't be representing anymore, because you know,
(05:50):
you wouldn't be in it for the right reasons. I
come into it with that whole thinking of public service.
You know, I'm my job is to serve the public,
regardless of your political affiliation. And I have had people
say to me who are national voters, that they vote
(06:12):
for me in the local government elections because they can
see that I will work for everybody. So I'm quite
proud to hear that kind of feedback because that is
what I try and do well.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The fact that they keep on voting you back in
from many elections now means that, yeah, that they obviously
see that that's what you're doing now. You used to
be a solicitor. I don't know if you still call
yourself a solicitor.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But what.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Was it that public service thing that drew you from
being in law into politics or is it just an
extension of what you're already doing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think it was an extension of what I was
already doing, but more on the actual making a difference collectively,
because you know, when I was a lawyer, I could see,
there were a lot of issues. Wasn't just the client
that I was dealing with, but there's just so many
(07:11):
issues going on in the community. And I ended up
going into consumer affairs, dealing with the credit law motor vehicles,
but also because a lot of people were getting ripped off,
and I used my legal background to help people that
were ripped off by a bad deal. And then I
also wanted to do more in the community that I
(07:33):
lived in, and so I stood for the local I
stood for the community board, and I didn't get selected
because I stood on a platform of safety. I was saying.
This is in two thousand and six when I moved
into Tammockee. I was saying, well, there's no point in
having all your facilities if people don't feel safe to
walk out the door and use them. I did not
(07:55):
get selected at the time because I was told that
safety was a central government issue, not a local government issue.
But then two thousand and eight I stood for Parliament
to get my profile up so that I could run
for city council. So I'm backwards. Others they use city
council local government elections to get their profile up to
(08:18):
run for central government. But I did it the other
way around, right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, Now you were the first some Owen woman to
become part of the council. Does the Samoan community encourage
its women to take leadership roles?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes. When I first stood, the majority of my campaigns
were from our Siman community. So yeah, they're very encouraging,
very very encouraging, very supportive. A lot of it was
my family and friends when I put my name forward. Yeah,
Oh yeah, that's encouraging.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh that's good, that's good. I just wonder whether or
not I know that some Owen culture can be quite
traditional at times, and I'm just wondering whether or not
the it sometimes makes women feel a bit fockma, a
bit embarrassed about putting themselves forward.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, I think that's that's the thing. Probably looking from
the outside, it does look very traditional, but actually women
hold a lot of strength in our in the Simon culture.
May not look like it, you know, visibly, but they do.
They hold a lot of strength. There's a word fully
tour meaning the back of the house, the backbone of
(09:38):
the house, and that refers to the wife of like
the priests or the church minister. So it's recognizing the
strength of the house as actually the woman.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah right, okay, so you're New Zealand born with Samoan parents.
Every New Zealand born Samoe and I've met usually has
a sort of a They see their parents coming to
New Zealand as being as inspi rational. It's almost like
a mythical story they have in their family. Is that
(10:13):
true in your family?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Absolutely? It's more motivation for me seeing the sacrifice that
they gave up to come to a new country for
a better life. So I feel that it's my juty
to be the best that I can be because of
the sacrifice they made. And that goes for my brothers
as well. So yeah, we're all doing well in life
(10:37):
touch wood. And it is a testament to seeing our
parents working out, working, Yeah, sweating blood, sweat and tears
for a better life for us. Yep. Right.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Was your some own heritage a big part of your
growing up? Did you speak I'm going to Farma at home?
Did you speak some own language or did you speak English?
Was there a lot of someone in culture involved in
growing up?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
No, my dad.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
My dad's focus was on working hard, education and you know,
paying paying the mortgage at home, so we didn't do
it we didn't get involved too much in the Salmone community.
At church, it was yeah, and we spoke. They wanted
us to speak English because they didn't think we'd get
(11:36):
a good job speaking someone. So yeah, but now you know,
I've done so many someone language classes to try and
learn the language, and I still can't. I can't get it. Yeah,
I can't do it, but I can understand.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's hard to learn a language when you're a bit older,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah, very hard.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I studied French, so you're you are trying to learn
I was.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Trying to learn yet. But yeah, I can speak French,
but I can't speak someone. It's very strange.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
My guest tonight is Auckland Counselor Josephine Bartley, and we're
talking about her journey, her progress and the things that
make her role in the city so special. This is
real life on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on NEWSTALKSB.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cown talking to
Counselor Josephine Bartley and she's picked that great party song.
That's that's great fun that song, isn't it Josephine.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It is great fun, but it has some significance for me.
We used to listen to it at home and mangai
when we had you know how parties parties at home
with our family. Yeah, but I was living in Hamilton
at the time. I was studying for my professional bar
exams and my dad had packed my car for me
(13:22):
to go back after the weekend. Came up to watch
the rugby of the family and he passed away. So
the next morning I had to go back to Hamilton
to get my things to be at home with my family,
and that song came on the radio. It was fifty two.
It's my age and so even though it's like a drinky,
drinky party song, it has a lot of significance for
(13:44):
me because you get knocked down, but you get back
up again. And so that's why I chose that one.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh yeah, that's that's quite a sobering thought, isn't it. Yes,
as that played on your mind, do you think, do
you think, oh, gosh, dad only had fifty two years
and so what is what is sort of that stimulated
in your own thinking?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Uh, that stimulated in my own thinking. I made it
to fifty two. Maybe I'm going to keep going. So
now it's the time to try and settle down in
terms of my housing situation. So it's actually been life
impacting reaching fifty two and the opportunity that came along
to join the Tommicky Regeneration home ownership program, because before
(14:33):
that my thinking was look at my dad, slave, disc
guts out, worked all the time to pay for mortgage,
and then he dies at fifty two.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Right, So you have this regeneration program. Is that a
housing programs?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Have you?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I think I did see that you bought your first
home at fifty two. What does that mean for you?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think for me it, Oh, it means stability and
security for my future. Yeah, that's what it means for me. Now.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You also already mentioned church, and so that was a
big part of your growing up.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yes, my family Catholic, my grandparents, great grandparents or Catholic.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So that was quite a central part of your family
life then. And did your church experience and the teaching
give you encouragement and opportunities to serve?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes? I think That's how I started off with public
speaking was because I was reading the Bible at Mass.
I was doing the readings in front of oh, you know,
a large, large audience. So I credit reading the Bible
(15:51):
in Mass as helping me to get my confidence up
to do public speaking.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And these days, is faith still a big part of
your life?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Faith is a big part of my life. I may
not go to Mass every Sunday, but it is a
big part of my life. It impacts my decision making
as well, when I have to go right down to
what my value my values are, and then yeah, I
find that it comes down to, you know, those principles
(16:25):
of your faith, love one another and yeah, teat your
love your neighbor as yourself comes down to things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Has that ever impacted some of the political decisions that
you've been involved in. You're sitting around the council table
discussing some issue. Have you ever thought, yes, as a Christian,
I want to say this or I want to put
this point of view. Has that ever impacted any issue
that you can think of?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Thank you? Yeah, definitely, especially some of the major things
that we go through as a city. That has been
my perspective is not just about myself but about others.
So that comes from my faith background as well.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Hey, I'm interested how someone coming from a working class
background has became a solicitor and then moved into politics.
Many people in the Pacific community are doing brilliantly well,
but others struggle, And sometimes it's struggling against prejudice, against
sometimes the limitations they think of for themselves. You've got,
(17:41):
I think, is it two degrees? What sort of gave
you the impetus.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
To do that? It's what I needed to do to
be who I wanted to be. Suppose I wanted to
be a lawyer. The only way I was going to
be a lawyer was.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
To study hard.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And to do well at university.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, and sometimes even that's not quite enough. I remember,
I think I saw an interview with you where you
mentioned a survey where fifty graduates Pacific Pacific graduates, fifty
of them, only forty two of them were working in
jobs unrelated to their degree. Is it really hard to
(18:23):
get into that first run of a legal profession after
your graduate It's.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Hard back then because my parents were not They did
not have, you know, the connections to other law firms
like my classmates parents did. So. Yeah, I worked in
the camera center, I worked, I did lots of different
jobs until a National Party MP gave me my first
(18:52):
foot in the door as his electorate agent, and I
really appreciated him doing that because it was my first real,
full time proper job and it was about service. Doesn't
matter the political party that I was working for, but yeah,
it was about service.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Changing track and a lot of pictures I've seen of you.
You're accompanied by an obviously much loved little dog. Tell
us about Milo and what he gives to you.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
What he gives me? Oh, excuse me, this is Milo.
What he gives me? He gives me a balance.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now I can see on the video link, this lovely
little dog. What does he gives me?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Balance?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And it gives me your way? In what way?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I would I would stay in council. I would be
in the office till nine o'clock sometimes, and now I
rush home. I rush home to get home to this
little one, and then he needs to be walked, so
I walk.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Now, as as a dog owner myself, I can identify
with this completely. It's not you know, some people just
think of a dog as giving them fleas and saliva,
But no, they give you so much more. They give
you a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Loved Oh absolutely, and yeah, that's what he gives me,
and you know, I deal with a lot of hate,
and so to have to come home and just all
you're surrounded by is unconditional love from this little guy
is really healing, really good.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
All right. I'm sad to hear that you experience hate.
You actually have received threats and hateful comments.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yes, yeah, ever since I became a counselor, not so
much when I was on the local board. I think
local board people were warning me that they used to
say to me, once you become a counselor, you are
a fish bowl. I don't know if that's the right saying,
but you're in the public eye even more so and
(21:07):
more subject criticism and yeah, some negativity.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What do you say to yourself when you're when you're
on the receiving end of some of this negative stuff?
Are there words that you say to yourself to keep
yourself going and feelings like you still want to carry on?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah? I constantly go through. Okay, am I making a
difference here? Am I making any impact? Am I seeing
my purpose?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
You know?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Doing what my community is asking of me? And if
the answers are all yes, yes, yes, then I'll carry on.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right, Well, I appreciate the work that you do. I
appreciate the courage you have to face up to all
that negativity, and I hope that you carry on serving Auckland,
serving your community for a long time to come. It's
been lovely meeting Milo, and it's lovely to talk with you.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I'm John Cown. This is Real Life. I've been talking
to counselor Josephine Bartley, who's picked a final song for us. Josephine,
what are we going to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
This is Someone Like You by Dinah Carroll and it's
really I think it's what everybody wants is to be like.
So that's where I picked it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That's fantastic. I'm looking forward to being back with you
again next Sunday night with another guest. This is Real
Life on News Talk seed B.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, we're just really.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The best, so.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Much exactly like you.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
For more from News Talks at B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good day, Welcome to real Life. I'm John Cowen and
my guest tonight helps run a city of one point
eight million people. Welcome to Auckland Councilor Josephine Bartley. Welcome Josephine.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thank you John, and a big hello to all your
listeners out there.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think you're going to find Josephine and her story fascinating.
And part of her story was becoming the first pacifica
woman to be elected to the super city Council. Josephine
was getting onto the council part of a long term
dream of yours.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It was, Yeah, I grew up in Mangoti, so I saw,
you know, a lot of Margoti was very David Longi
back then, and very labor you know, lots of labor
stickers everywhere. And I really liked the idea of this
caretaking role of a community. And so originally I had
(01:28):
aspirations thinking it was being a member of parliament, but
then I looked at City Council because it was more
about the city that I love and so yeah, it's
been an aspiration definitely.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Okay, you did have a shot at getting into central
government back in I think two thousand and eight that
you came second.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I think that's really generous to say I had
a shot running in a National Party stronghold since Robert
Muldoon times.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, that's right, Robert Muldoon from Tamaki, so you were
running up against pretty strong Blue opposition there. But then
since twenty ten you have been on local boards representing
a very special part of Auckland, the part of Auckland
that I find fascinating, the Tamaki Munga Kiki area, and
(02:26):
you've been so you've been representing them for about fifteen years.
What makes your area of Auckland so special? What do
you love about that part of Auckland that you live in.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yes, I've been on the local board since twenty ten
and then on the Auckland Council since twenty eighteen. I
just think this particular area is rich with the natural environment.
So we've got the Tammiki Estuary, the Monaco Harbor, Munga
Da Munga Keke and then the people are all diverse.
(02:59):
So it's a beautiful part of Auckland to call home.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I love cycling and that area that you describe. You
know some people with thinking, eh, you know, natural, natural
beauty and things. Yes, there's a ton of beautiful paths
and parks and manga and I just yeah, some of
my favorite rides are in your area. But it's to
tell us about the type of people that you'd find there.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Oh wow, See I grew up in MANGOI, so you
didn't have diversity of backgrounds there. Everybody was, you know,
a working class. My parents owned our home, so they
worked factory jobs. But everybody you know is yeah, you
didn't have like rich parts in Mangli, whereas here on
(03:51):
one side of the road you have multimillion dollar mansions.
You cross the road and it's state housing. So you know,
the diversity of backgrounds is that start here. But it's
also pretty awesome because you have everybody of different backgrounds mixing.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Right, And the ethnic mix is interesting there. I was
looking in Wikipedia and I see that pakiher European people
make up about forty two percent and the rest are
from all over the place. Mate, a lot of people
from the Pacific, but also from other parts of the
world as well.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yep, that's right. And where I live. I live in Gleniness,
so it is fifty percent basweaka Gleniness Point England, Pamure
and about twenty seven percent Maori. So it's a big
you know, there's it's just a massive, massive community of
(04:48):
different cultures and it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I love it right now. You mentioned that the it
was a National Party stronghold. You're a labor We've got
labor affiliations and it's an area that flip flops backwards
and forwards between National and Labor in recent elections. But
you keep on getting elect did Why do you think
they are the voters from this diverse area? Why do
(05:12):
they keep on voting for you? And yes, you are
allowed to say something good about yourself. I know that
there's the natural modesty that the specific people have where
they what's that phrase? The kumra does not speak of
its own sweetness, But you're allowed to say. Now, why
do you think people vote for you? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I really hope people vote for me because they see
I work hard for our communities. My hat is definitely
in it. I only do this because I care and
because I love this community. But you know, if I
lose that, then I shouldn't be representing anymore, because you know,
(05:50):
you wouldn't be in it for the right reasons. I
come into it with that whole thinking of public service.
You know, I'm my job is to serve the public,
regardless of your political affiliation. And I have had people
say to me who are national voters, that they vote
(06:12):
for me in the local government elections because they can
see that I will work for everybody. So I'm quite
proud to hear that kind of feedback because that is
what I try and do well.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The fact that they keep on voting you back in
from many elections now means that, yeah, that they obviously
see that that's what you're doing now. You used to
be a solicitor. I don't know if you still call
yourself a solicitor.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But what.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Was it that public service thing that drew you from
being in law into politics or is it just an
extension of what you're already doing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think it was an extension of what I was
already doing, but more on the actual making a difference collectively,
because you know, when I was a lawyer, I could see,
there were a lot of issues. Wasn't just the client
that I was dealing with, but there's just so many
(07:11):
issues going on in the community. And I ended up
going into consumer affairs, dealing with the credit law motor vehicles,
but also because a lot of people were getting ripped off,
and I used my legal background to help people that
were ripped off by a bad deal. And then I
also wanted to do more in the community that I
(07:33):
lived in, and so I stood for the local I
stood for the community board, and I didn't get selected
because I stood on a platform of safety. I was saying.
This is in two thousand and six when I moved
into Tammockee. I was saying, well, there's no point in
having all your facilities if people don't feel safe to
walk out the door and use them. I did not
(07:55):
get selected at the time because I was told that
safety was a central government issue, not a local government issue.
But then two thousand and eight I stood for Parliament
to get my profile up so that I could run
for city council. So I'm backwards. Others they use city
council local government elections to get their profile up to
(08:18):
run for central government. But I did it the other
way around, right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, Now you were the first some Owen woman to
become part of the council. Does the Samoan community encourage
its women to take leadership roles?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes. When I first stood, the majority of my campaigns
were from our Siman community. So yeah, they're very encouraging,
very very encouraging, very supportive. A lot of it was
my family and friends when I put my name forward. Yeah,
Oh yeah, that's encouraging.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh that's good, that's good. I just wonder whether or
not I know that some Owen culture can be quite
traditional at times, and I'm just wondering whether or not
the it sometimes makes women feel a bit fockma, a
bit embarrassed about putting themselves forward.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, I think that's that's the thing. Probably looking from
the outside, it does look very traditional, but actually women
hold a lot of strength in our in the Simon culture.
May not look like it, you know, visibly, but they do.
They hold a lot of strength. There's a word fully
tour meaning the back of the house, the backbone of
(09:38):
the house, and that refers to the wife of like
the priests or the church minister. So it's recognizing the
strength of the house as actually the woman.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah right, okay, so you're New Zealand born with Samoan parents.
Every New Zealand born Samoe and I've met usually has
a sort of a They see their parents coming to
New Zealand as being as inspi rational. It's almost like
a mythical story they have in their family. Is that
(10:13):
true in your family?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Absolutely? It's more motivation for me seeing the sacrifice that
they gave up to come to a new country for
a better life. So I feel that it's my juty
to be the best that I can be because of
the sacrifice they made. And that goes for my brothers
as well. So yeah, we're all doing well in life
(10:37):
touch wood. And it is a testament to seeing our
parents working out, working, Yeah, sweating blood, sweat and tears
for a better life for us. Yep. Right.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Was your some own heritage a big part of your
growing up? Did you speak I'm going to Farma at home?
Did you speak some own language or did you speak English?
Was there a lot of someone in culture involved in
growing up?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
No, my dad.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
My dad's focus was on working hard, education and you know,
paying paying the mortgage at home, so we didn't do
it we didn't get involved too much in the Salmone community.
At church, it was yeah, and we spoke. They wanted
us to speak English because they didn't think we'd get
(11:36):
a good job speaking someone. So yeah, but now you know,
I've done so many someone language classes to try and
learn the language, and I still can't. I can't get it. Yeah,
I can't do it, but I can understand.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's hard to learn a language when you're a bit older,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah, very hard.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I studied French, so you're you are trying to learn
I was.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Trying to learn yet. But yeah, I can speak French,
but I can't speak someone. It's very strange.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
My guest tonight is Auckland Counselor Josephine Bartley, and we're
talking about her journey, her progress and the things that
make her role in the city so special. This is
real life on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on NEWSTALKSB.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cown talking to
Counselor Josephine Bartley and she's picked that great party song.
That's that's great fun that song, isn't it Josephine.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It is great fun, but it has some significance for me.
We used to listen to it at home and mangai
when we had you know how parties parties at home
with our family. Yeah, but I was living in Hamilton
at the time. I was studying for my professional bar
exams and my dad had packed my car for me
(13:22):
to go back after the weekend. Came up to watch
the rugby of the family and he passed away. So
the next morning I had to go back to Hamilton
to get my things to be at home with my family,
and that song came on the radio. It was fifty two.
It's my age and so even though it's like a drinky,
drinky party song, it has a lot of significance for
(13:44):
me because you get knocked down, but you get back
up again. And so that's why I chose that one.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh yeah, that's that's quite a sobering thought, isn't it. Yes,
as that played on your mind, do you think, do
you think, oh, gosh, dad only had fifty two years
and so what is what is sort of that stimulated
in your own thinking?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Uh, that stimulated in my own thinking. I made it
to fifty two. Maybe I'm going to keep going. So
now it's the time to try and settle down in
terms of my housing situation. So it's actually been life
impacting reaching fifty two and the opportunity that came along
to join the Tommicky Regeneration home ownership program, because before
(14:33):
that my thinking was look at my dad, slave, disc
guts out, worked all the time to pay for mortgage,
and then he dies at fifty two.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Right, So you have this regeneration program. Is that a
housing programs?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Have you?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I think I did see that you bought your first
home at fifty two. What does that mean for you?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think for me it, Oh, it means stability and
security for my future. Yeah, that's what it means for me. Now.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You also already mentioned church, and so that was a
big part of your growing up.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yes, my family Catholic, my grandparents, great grandparents or Catholic.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So that was quite a central part of your family
life then. And did your church experience and the teaching
give you encouragement and opportunities to serve?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes? I think That's how I started off with public
speaking was because I was reading the Bible at Mass.
I was doing the readings in front of oh, you know,
a large, large audience. So I credit reading the Bible
(15:51):
in Mass as helping me to get my confidence up
to do public speaking.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And these days, is faith still a big part of
your life?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Faith is a big part of my life. I may
not go to Mass every Sunday, but it is a
big part of my life. It impacts my decision making
as well, when I have to go right down to
what my value my values are, and then yeah, I
find that it comes down to, you know, those principles
(16:25):
of your faith, love one another and yeah, teat your
love your neighbor as yourself comes down to things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Has that ever impacted some of the political decisions that
you've been involved in. You're sitting around the council table
discussing some issue. Have you ever thought, yes, as a Christian,
I want to say this or I want to put
this point of view. Has that ever impacted any issue
that you can think of?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Thank you? Yeah, definitely, especially some of the major things
that we go through as a city. That has been
my perspective is not just about myself but about others.
So that comes from my faith background as well.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Hey, I'm interested how someone coming from a working class
background has became a solicitor and then moved into politics.
Many people in the Pacific community are doing brilliantly well,
but others struggle, And sometimes it's struggling against prejudice, against
sometimes the limitations they think of for themselves. You've got,
(17:41):
I think, is it two degrees? What sort of gave
you the impetus.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
To do that? It's what I needed to do to
be who I wanted to be. Suppose I wanted to
be a lawyer. The only way I was going to
be a lawyer was.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
To study hard.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And to do well at university.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, and sometimes even that's not quite enough. I remember,
I think I saw an interview with you where you
mentioned a survey where fifty graduates Pacific Pacific graduates, fifty
of them, only forty two of them were working in
jobs unrelated to their degree. Is it really hard to
(18:23):
get into that first run of a legal profession after
your graduate It's.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Hard back then because my parents were not They did
not have, you know, the connections to other law firms
like my classmates parents did. So. Yeah, I worked in
the camera center, I worked, I did lots of different
jobs until a National Party MP gave me my first
(18:52):
foot in the door as his electorate agent, and I
really appreciated him doing that because it was my first real,
full time proper job and it was about service. Doesn't
matter the political party that I was working for, but yeah,
it was about service.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Changing track and a lot of pictures I've seen of you.
You're accompanied by an obviously much loved little dog. Tell
us about Milo and what he gives to you.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
What he gives me? Oh, excuse me, this is Milo.
What he gives me? He gives me a balance.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now I can see on the video link, this lovely
little dog. What does he gives me?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Balance?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And it gives me your way? In what way?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I would I would stay in council. I would be
in the office till nine o'clock sometimes, and now I
rush home. I rush home to get home to this
little one, and then he needs to be walked, so
I walk.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Now, as as a dog owner myself, I can identify
with this completely. It's not you know, some people just
think of a dog as giving them fleas and saliva,
But no, they give you so much more. They give
you a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Loved Oh absolutely, and yeah, that's what he gives me,
and you know, I deal with a lot of hate,
and so to have to come home and just all
you're surrounded by is unconditional love from this little guy
is really healing, really good.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
All right. I'm sad to hear that you experience hate.
You actually have received threats and hateful comments.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yes, yeah, ever since I became a counselor, not so
much when I was on the local board. I think
local board people were warning me that they used to
say to me, once you become a counselor, you are
a fish bowl. I don't know if that's the right saying,
but you're in the public eye even more so and
(21:07):
more subject criticism and yeah, some negativity.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What do you say to yourself when you're when you're
on the receiving end of some of this negative stuff?
Are there words that you say to yourself to keep
yourself going and feelings like you still want to carry on?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah? I constantly go through. Okay, am I making a
difference here? Am I making any impact? Am I seeing
my purpose?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
You know?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Doing what my community is asking of me? And if
the answers are all yes, yes, yes, then I'll carry on.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right, Well, I appreciate the work that you do. I
appreciate the courage you have to face up to all
that negativity, and I hope that you carry on serving Auckland,
serving your community for a long time to come. It's
been lovely meeting Milo, and it's lovely to talk with you.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I'm John Cown. This is Real Life. I've been talking
to counselor Josephine Bartley, who's picked a final song for us. Josephine,
what are we going to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
This is Someone Like You by Dinah Carroll and it's
really I think it's what everybody wants is to be like.
So that's where I picked it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That's fantastic. I'm looking forward to being back with you
again next Sunday night with another guest. This is Real
Life on News Talk seed B.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, we're just really.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The best, so.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Much exactly like you.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
For more from News Talks at B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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