August 31, 2025 • 23 mins
Sam Gibson, better known as Sam the Trap Man, grew up beside the Hamanatua Stream in Tairāwhiti Gisborne. From an early age, the bush was where he truly belonged—hunting, fishing, trapping and living wild.
As a teenager starting to go off the rails, a unique deal between his parents and teachers let him swap school for the outdoors. It was a turning point that not only kept him out of trouble but set the course for a life built around hard work, adventure, and purpose.
From shooting his first deer to surviving brutal South Island winters as a young trapper, Sam’s life is full of wild yarns—funny, raw, thrilling, and heartfelt. Every choice he makes in the bush is guided by his deep respect for native wildlife and a mission to protect Aotearoa’s ecosystems.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from news Talk zed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
GOODA, Welcome to real life.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm John Cowen and my guest is author and conservationist
Sam the trap Man Gibson.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know, Sam Sholder.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
John. How's your evening going?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh, it's going very well.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
All the best for seeing you on the screen in
front of me and everybody who has met you or
described you. In fact, people have texted in after you
were mentioned in the lead up to this show said
what a great guy you are and how deeply passionate
you are about the things that you do. So I'm
really looking forward to talking to you. And what are
you up to at the moment. What's your big thing
(00:50):
that you've got on at the moment.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I've got a couple of big things at the moment.
We've just released a documentary Think Like a Forest, and
that's on TV and Z Plus, which we're really excited about.
And the other thing that we are doing as a
far no is we're running for Gismond Council. Those are
our two big projects at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Wow, politics and show biz probably two things that you
probably didn't think you'd be doing much of not at all.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I never really intended to get into politics at all.
But when you get shoulder taped by the Aunties, I
guess you do what you're told.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
How how you got to do what the Aunties tell
you to do? Hey, Sam, And just bet every picture
I've seen of you, you're standing in some beautiful part
of New Zealand, and you're about six foot three, six
foot four. What would you be standing about? Six foot four?
Six six four has sex four a chess but rape
big black beard, and you've usually got a you're usually
(01:46):
soaking wet in the videos anyway, you've got a gun
in your hand, a pig or a deer or something
draped and bleeding over your shoulders, and a great big
grin on your face. I mean you've you've you've trapped
and shot all over the country. You've worked to remove
the pests that the great our forests, worked for Doc
Ben a farm advisor, set up conservation programs, and now
(02:08):
you've written the best selling book and this documentary on
Telly and politics. So you've got a lot to talk
about tonight, and we're going to have to rattle through it.
But First of all, that documentary, how people responding to it.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, they're loving it. Hey, So what we wanted to
do was really, you know, we're seeing a big reaction
with climate change. We're seeing a bit you know, the
ninety year data showing that we're going to experience more
intense rain for all events and more fire. And we
just really wanted to make a case for putting trees
(02:43):
in the right places in our landscape. And that's what
the documentary is all about. It who these trees are
and what mechanisms we need to really build in some
residience for the future.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I watched the doco on its streaming on TV and
Z Plus, and he has made such an incredible case
that you know, the pine forests that are all down there,
they don't actually stop the flood water coming down, but
the multi layers of a natural forest grab hold of
the water and hold it in this place and hold
the land together and you don't get slips in those areas.
What a difference that the East Cap would look like
(03:17):
after a cyclone Bowler and these recent floods if the
natural bush had been kept in places.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Absolutely, it's all in that moss layer that absorbs all
the water and lets it out slowly, and it's all
in the ferns as well. So if we've got those
present in native for us, the place is going to thrive.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
The case that I particularly was taken by is that
this works out in terms of dollars. I mean, you've
got governments that can't see past the next election and
they can't see anything that doesn't have a dollar signed
in front of them. Well, you could probably go to
them and say, look, this will actually save the land,
save the income of these people, and it's money in
the bank if you do this absolutely.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
This documentary is part of a big proposal that we
did take to Parliament Caudary Colaking Papatuonoku, and it's a
big policy piece that shows over the long term, over
one hundred years, it works out cheaper than buying offshore
carbon credits. And so you know that currently we're investing
our hard earned New Zealand dollars in international markets to
(04:21):
supply carbon credits for us here, but if we invested
that money at home over one hundred year period, it
would work out much cheaper. But you know, will require
our politicians to start thinking longer than a single term.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Hate that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But even the ones that can't see past the next
election and don't think much about in the environment, surely
they must prack up their ears and listen when they
hear that farmers are on board with this. This is
the thing that got me as well. They're actually farmers
want to do this stuff. They want to actually stick
the right types of trees around their waterways and conserve
(04:57):
the bits of bush that are still around their place
in it because it.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Works with them absolutely and we're seeing it. Our farmers
are doing that, and even our forestry companies are starting
to transition pine for us internative for us as well,
because they see the big picture. So I think we're
already doing it. I just think the government has a
little bit of catching up to do.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I must admit, people like yourself do challenge my concepts
of what a conservationist is. I don't tend to think
of them as being bespectacled ecoscientists of oversized spectacles and
Roman sandals, not people walking around the deer on their
back and the gun in their hand. But you would
claim to be a full, full blooded conservationist, wouldn't you,
(05:38):
as well as an unter and fisher.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I just call myself a bushman, hey, a little bit
of a conservationist, a little bit of a trapper, a
little bit. To me, it's all about, Hey, we've got
a relationship with these ecosystems, and we've got a vested
interest in these ecosystems flourishing, so we can flourish, so
if I can do my bit to sort of look
after them.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I reckon it doesn't flourish a nice word. And that's
the thing that I got from looking through your book.
You flourish when you're out in the bush. It's the
place that centers you, It steadies you, and it does
so much for all of us, really, if we have
exposed ourselves to it. And and that's just the wonderful
(06:19):
thing about our nature here that it does. It's such
a treasure for humans. It's not just the bellbirds and
the and the pigeons that are enjoying it. Humans should
be out there enjoying it. And I just think you
had this incredible advantage of the parents and grandparents that
you had.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I sure do, and we you know, we're really lucky
with our far No, but I think wider than that,
you know, you've done a lot of youth work yourself, Hey, John,
And I feel like when we put foot young people
out into the bush, they sort of they after a
whole day, they start to light up and they start
to thrive, and some.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I work with that I would have liked to have
left out there. But anyhow, carry aren't you.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, that's right, I'll realize you.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I've got incredible grandparents that all took me in the
porsh and great parents as well, and uncles and aunties,
and we just what.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Were they like? What were your parents like?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
My parents are kind of alternative characters when I was young.
You know, Dad was a he was a tramper and
both of them climbed to Everest Base camp. So they
were quite adventurous type people. And so Dad would take
me into the bush and tramping and whitewater rafting, and
Mum would make all our food, like from scratch. You'd
bake all our own bread and biscuits, and had a
(07:30):
big mardi kai, a big garden. So quite wholesome sort
of people, I would say. And we just lived in
this not really cash rich environment, but this really loved
and nutured environment that was really connected to the land.
So that's how we were kind of raised there in Grisbon.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, And an interesting part of the upbringing was was
the Steiner school system too. If it's you know, if
you're going to be focused on nature and things, I
guess Steiner is the I don't know much about it,
but I do know you sat there instead of the
plant for a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That sounds odd, but is that true? Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
They have these things, these sessions in the morning called
main lessons, and every main lesson you study something particular
for three weeks. And so it might be Greek history,
it might be Egyptian history, it might be botany. And
so during the Botany main lesson every morning, they say, hey,
go out and choose a plant, and you're going to
(08:31):
sit with the same plant for you know, three weeks
and just observe it for half an hour. And some
people would think that's kind of crazy, and some people
got really bored, but for me, I kind of lit
up and just liked observing what was going on with
these foods. So, but I think the cool thing about
Steiner schools is they take each child's journey and they
(08:52):
sort of tailor the curriculum and to that child's journey,
and so you've got teachers that are hugely invested in
the kids there. So you know, I made the classroom
might not have been the best classroom for me, but
I had a bunch of teachers that saw, okay, this
kid's classrooms from going to be in the bush and
they made it happen for me.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, yeah, I get from the book that despite these
lovely influences you had, you did go off.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
The rails a wee bit.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
But the principle and your parents came up with a
unique novel thing that helped turn you into the bushman
you are.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Very much so. So like you know, I moved from
Gisbone to hawks Bay when I was twelve with my parents,
and you take this young young feller who's used to
rural Gisbin to the busy city and hawks Bay. They
punked me in the sort of bogan surfing community and
those guys partied really hard, and so that was the
(09:46):
social scene I got put in. I was a surfer,
and yeah, I'm really lucky to have had people that
saw what trajuice to I was going down and gave
me some opportunities and some gave me the storyline to
get me out of that as well, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And the thing they did was they let you have
a week off every term to go bush.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Terms all long for me, a like ten weeks for
a young like twelve year old that's not really thriving
in the school environment.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
They're really long. So that's Demi.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Bush in the middle of every term up to t
Itoita under these amazing trappers up there. There's one guy, Keith.
He had no teeth and he just walked around in
a Holy Woolen Bush t shirt. And yeah, he's Those
guys taught me about my place in the world in
relation to trees and plants and and how I could
(10:41):
contribute to these ecosystems that looked after me, and I
just haven't looked back.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It's somewhere where I could work hard, but it's also
somewhere I could contribute to it, somewhere that looked after me,
and I just found my place, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
If you just found us on your doll I'm talking
to seem the Trapman Gibson talking about his life as
a trapman, as a as a bushman, and as a conservationist.
So I'll be coming back and talking more about some
of the projects he's been on and also some of
the adventures. He said, this is real life on news talks.
He'd be back with you just a minute.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on Newstalks.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
Edb Well TuS Ita Jen said, there say Evil Gun
will release today. Hello fill say see your life self
fact it get well.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
This is real life.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'm John Cowan and each week we ask our guests
to pick some music that means something to them. Sam
the Trapman Gibson is joining me from down the knees
Cape somewhere, and you picked the Eastern. Tell us about
this band and why it means something to you.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I first came across the Eastern accidentally. I got tickets
to Old Crome Medicine show in Hawk's Bay and the Opera.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
House, and.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
This friend came on.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Start to start the show off, and that became amazing,
and they showed up old Coro medicine shows. So the Eastern.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
They're alive act.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
They're probably the best live act I've ever seen in
New Zealand. They're a bluegrass group and I think that
Adam he tells some incredible stories and it really resonates
with those gritty, working class, melancholic, hopeful stories that your
(12:40):
grittin determination and your faith in the world's going to
get you through those hard times. So hope and why
it's it talks about putting yourself back together with your
hope with hope pieces or Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Your third about incredible stories back in nineteen sixty seven, Well,
I was just a young fellow. I have the remarkable
experience of going into the bush with Barry Crump for
the day, and it was quite a memorable day. As
you can imagine. He was filming a show and so
I spent the day of Barry. But I know that
you wouldn't mind being pared with him with your books,
(13:16):
would you.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
He's a bit of a hero literary wise.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He's a bit of a rat bag, wasn't he?
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, I definitely. You know, I'm quite humbed with that
people compare me to Bury Crump literary wise. But I'm
not a drinker, and I hope I treat my life
a whole lot better in my kids, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
But your book that I've been reading, I haven't gotten
all the way through it, but about halfway through it
is just full of good stories, good yarns, and things
about your life as a trapper and as a hunter,
and just your passage through life and some fascinating things.
I mean, as I say, lots and lots of yards,
lots of stories. Some of the adventures and field land
(13:57):
are blood curdling, you know, falling off cliffs, getting shot at,
stuff like that. What's your favorite story? What would be
the sort of the most spined moment you've had in
the bush?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I think being shot at top tops and all. You know,
I've been shot at four times, and that really scares
the pants off you. It's one of those things where
you hear a bullet whistling past you and that just
it takes you a whole different taste. So yeah, that's
that's pretty nerve wrecking, that's for sure. But the favorite
stories I like telling those mischief ones around how to
(14:31):
how to dig long drops? And I do a lot
of talks and schools and kids get at a good
chuck out of how to dig a good duney.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You know, And I like the reasons what you give
why you should do a good one and not a
bad one. Perhaps not go and do that on radio,
but it's interesting stuff that Hey, if you're wanting a
good read, grab hold of your book, which is called
Sam the Trapman Gibson and just hunt it down. That's
still in some bookshops. I had to hunt for it
though it's obviously sold off the shelves in a lot
(15:00):
of places, but worth having a look at. In the book,
I get the idea that you're not a church guy,
but you do seem to have sort of a spiritualpproach to.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Life when you get in the bush.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I think it's really difficult to spend as much time
as I do in the bush and then not for
your spiritual connection. So, yeah, I don't go to church.
I was confirmed as a young person, but I yeah,
the bush is really that face I go that makes
me feel a deep connection. And yeah, I know every
(15:32):
day sort of for me, and the bush involves kuttakre
and reverence and gratefulness for things.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So if that makes sense, yeah, it does make sense.
And one of the other and interesting thing is like
you're a hunter. You know, that's your happy space when
you're out there hunting, and yet you're not when it
comes to taking the life from an animal. You're actually
thoughtful about it, you're philosophical about it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I don't know many hunters that like to kill things,
you know. I think that we like to be out there.
I think that we are really proud of the fact
that we can use our skills to provide for our
far No, but yeah, I don't know any hunters that
enjoy the actual taking of life. So when it comes
to taking something's life, yeah, we're very thoughtful about it.
(16:21):
We're very conscious about the way we do it. And
most hunters have a bit of our tea hunger, bit
of our way of showing their gratitude to their animals
as it passes and as they take that life. If
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, you emphasize you're only ever going after the things
that you can use. You know, it's going to be
food or something that you're going to be having at
home or something like that. So and in New Zealand
don't like perhaps anywhere else in the world, when you
go out hunting, you're not just not working against conservation values,
you're working for them. But I had a question, because
(16:56):
you're getting rid of the things that are destroying our
forests and everything, would you want, though taken to extreme,
if we got completely rid of the deer, completely rid
of the pigs and the things that you shoot. Surely
our bush would be grateful. But do you think you
is that a goal?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Would you have have all? Would you?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
That's a really that's a really good question, John A,
that's like quite a. That's a solid question. Thank you
for asking that question. That's a real solid philosophical question.
So for me, I feel like on every side of
our fuck Popper, our people have always been hunters. Doesn't
matter if we come from Europe or Polonies or or
(17:39):
alter it all here. It doesn't matter where we come from.
We've always been hunters. So for me it doesn't worry
me too much the species that we're hunting. You know
that I've lived in places where deer have pentiful. I've
lived in places where pigs are pentiful. I've been down
to the tt Islands and harvested t t wika on
on on the on the Chathams as well. So if
(18:01):
we had no deer and no pigs, that would mean
we had a lot of beds and we would still
be hunting and feeding our far under through that connection
and to then, So if you want to go philosophically,
that's where I go, but I don't actually think we've
got the tools to do that. I don't even I
don't think we've got the social want to do that
at this time.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
One of the interesting things is that you know, as
you've cast about doing different things, you found the right
people that come alongside you, and including an incredible woman.
And I was just first of all intrigued by the
very twenty first century way that you met each other,
but also what your idea of a romantic getaway was
(18:43):
and tell us a bit about that.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah, I was really best to have met my wife.
You know, she's one of the greatest things in my life.
Gisband's a small place. I'll say that, you know, I'll
find it. So from Gisbone that I got told couldn't date,
I go from Gisbond because we're probably related, So it's
a small gene ful. So yes, and we met on
(19:09):
the esteem dating it called Tinder, and we did the
odd swipe right thing and went for a walk on
the beach and the rest is history. But the first
really big adventure we went on together. We walked into
the ocommata. Rangers and people that are familiar with it ocommat.
It's pretty remote and there's still wild cattle kicking around
in there. So we were walking up this river and
(19:31):
we stumbled across this herd of wild cattle and I
said to said, do you want to shoot one? And
she said like, definitely not, and so I was like, okay,
I'll take a shot. So I settled down and I
had this big moment where I was really nervous because
I wasn't nervous of the cattle beasts necessarily. I was
nervous of the cattle bees come stampede across the river
(19:53):
and hurting roy Mater because roy Matter's dad is like,
he's like seven foot, he's a big man, and rou
Mats has like his daughter. So I was quite nervous
about that. But so managed to deck one of the cows,
and once we decked it, we kind of realized how
big it was, and so to be able to carry
it out it was going to be seven hours. So
(20:14):
I loaded a beck leg onto Roumutter's pack, and a
beck leg of a kettle beast is quite large, and
I loaded at back leg onto my pack as well.
I carried the backstacks and roy Mutter only managed to
fall over twice in the river, which was pretty good,
and we made a deal she wasn't going to cry
until we got to the big hill at the end
of the of the tracks. So we got to that
(20:35):
big hill at the end of the track and I
think we made it to the to the truck at
eleven pm at night, and she cried pretty much up
the whole way up the hill, and I like supportingly
talked her through it and carried what I could carry
of hers and we got to the end and I
was like, right, do you want to go bush again
at some point and she said yes.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And I was like, wow, you found the right woman.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You found that, You've probably found the only woman even
on the Ease Cape that would carry half a cow
up a mountain for you, And so obviously thought, yep,
this is a keeper.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And two kids later, that's obviously been confirmed.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And those kids, I've watched a few by the way,
folks go online and track down Sam the Trapman and
on online because there's lots of videos of him, some
of them with his kids, and they just love the
bush as much as as you do. How have you
put that love of the bush into your kids' lives
and hearts.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
My dad said to me, none of us really know
how to parent, but just parent where you feel the
most comfortable, and then your kids will get the best
version of yourself. And so I started taking my kids
into the bush as a young person, like when they
were real young, who was trapping with me in the
backpack and I was just figuring out how to be
your dad. And so I really instilled that love of
(21:53):
the forest through the kay, through the food, and my
kids just light up being able to read which trees
will grow mushrooms that they can eat, and what fruits
are going to drop when. So like when the when
our kids see the kidder, do fear this is dropping
on the ground. When they start to mold, they know
that the Kahika tear is fruiting in the tops of
the trees, and then that Kahika tars about to drop
(22:14):
their fruit for our kids to eat them. So our
kids kind of, I don't know, they're a bit strange
because I'm a bit strange. And so they walk through
the bush reading all these talk week in science.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We could do with a lot more strange looks like
that in our country. So thank you very much, seam
for everything. You're doing for our forests, for our nature,
for the way you're encouraging people to look after our
beautiful land.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Wish you all the best and all good luck with.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Your upcoming politics and with your and by the way, folks,
do check out on TV Plus. I think like a forest.
It's a great little darker and we're going out on
another song.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What have you picked for us?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I've picked by you Country by Grits. It comes from
Louisiana and I love the way I love there making
a Chai culture over there. There's a lot of similarities
to the East Coast with the flooding as well, and
when I was in the States, I really resonated with
those people. They're good.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
My guest tonight's been Sam the Trapman Gibson and it's
been a thoroughly enjoyable talk.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Thank you so much, Sam, Wish you all the best.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Appreciate you John, Appreciate Big Sam behind the scenes. I
look forward to going bush with you soon.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Teller, this is real life on News Talks. There'd be
back with you again next Sunday night. For more from
News Talks.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Ed b listen live on air or online and keep
our shows with you Wherever you go with our podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from news Talk zed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
GOODA, Welcome to real life.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm John Cowen and my guest is author and conservationist
Sam the trap Man Gibson.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know, Sam Sholder.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
John. How's your evening going?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh, it's going very well.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
All the best for seeing you on the screen in
front of me and everybody who has met you or
described you. In fact, people have texted in after you
were mentioned in the lead up to this show said
what a great guy you are and how deeply passionate
you are about the things that you do. So I'm
really looking forward to talking to you. And what are
you up to at the moment. What's your big thing
(00:50):
that you've got on at the moment.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I've got a couple of big things at the moment.
We've just released a documentary Think Like a Forest, and
that's on TV and Z Plus, which we're really excited about.
And the other thing that we are doing as a
far no is we're running for Gismond Council. Those are
our two big projects at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Wow, politics and show biz probably two things that you
probably didn't think you'd be doing much of not at all.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I never really intended to get into politics at all.
But when you get shoulder taped by the Aunties, I
guess you do what you're told.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
How how you got to do what the Aunties tell
you to do? Hey, Sam, And just bet every picture
I've seen of you, you're standing in some beautiful part
of New Zealand, and you're about six foot three, six
foot four. What would you be standing about? Six foot four?
Six six four has sex four a chess but rape
big black beard, and you've usually got a you're usually
(01:46):
soaking wet in the videos anyway, you've got a gun
in your hand, a pig or a deer or something
draped and bleeding over your shoulders, and a great big
grin on your face. I mean you've you've you've trapped
and shot all over the country. You've worked to remove
the pests that the great our forests, worked for Doc
Ben a farm advisor, set up conservation programs, and now
(02:08):
you've written the best selling book and this documentary on
Telly and politics. So you've got a lot to talk
about tonight, and we're going to have to rattle through it.
But First of all, that documentary, how people responding to it.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, they're loving it. Hey, So what we wanted to
do was really, you know, we're seeing a big reaction
with climate change. We're seeing a bit you know, the
ninety year data showing that we're going to experience more
intense rain for all events and more fire. And we
just really wanted to make a case for putting trees
(02:43):
in the right places in our landscape. And that's what
the documentary is all about. It who these trees are
and what mechanisms we need to really build in some
residience for the future.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I watched the doco on its streaming on TV and
Z Plus, and he has made such an incredible case
that you know, the pine forests that are all down there,
they don't actually stop the flood water coming down, but
the multi layers of a natural forest grab hold of
the water and hold it in this place and hold
the land together and you don't get slips in those areas.
What a difference that the East Cap would look like
(03:17):
after a cyclone Bowler and these recent floods if the
natural bush had been kept in places.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Absolutely, it's all in that moss layer that absorbs all
the water and lets it out slowly, and it's all
in the ferns as well. So if we've got those
present in native for us, the place is going to thrive.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
The case that I particularly was taken by is that
this works out in terms of dollars. I mean, you've
got governments that can't see past the next election and
they can't see anything that doesn't have a dollar signed
in front of them. Well, you could probably go to
them and say, look, this will actually save the land,
save the income of these people, and it's money in
the bank if you do this absolutely.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
This documentary is part of a big proposal that we
did take to Parliament Caudary Colaking Papatuonoku, and it's a
big policy piece that shows over the long term, over
one hundred years, it works out cheaper than buying offshore
carbon credits. And so you know that currently we're investing
our hard earned New Zealand dollars in international markets to
(04:21):
supply carbon credits for us here, but if we invested
that money at home over one hundred year period, it
would work out much cheaper. But you know, will require
our politicians to start thinking longer than a single term.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Hate that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But even the ones that can't see past the next
election and don't think much about in the environment, surely
they must prack up their ears and listen when they
hear that farmers are on board with this. This is
the thing that got me as well. They're actually farmers
want to do this stuff. They want to actually stick
the right types of trees around their waterways and conserve
(04:57):
the bits of bush that are still around their place
in it because it.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Works with them absolutely and we're seeing it. Our farmers
are doing that, and even our forestry companies are starting
to transition pine for us internative for us as well,
because they see the big picture. So I think we're
already doing it. I just think the government has a
little bit of catching up to do.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I must admit, people like yourself do challenge my concepts
of what a conservationist is. I don't tend to think
of them as being bespectacled ecoscientists of oversized spectacles and
Roman sandals, not people walking around the deer on their
back and the gun in their hand. But you would
claim to be a full, full blooded conservationist, wouldn't you,
(05:38):
as well as an unter and fisher.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I just call myself a bushman, hey, a little bit
of a conservationist, a little bit of a trapper, a
little bit. To me, it's all about, Hey, we've got
a relationship with these ecosystems, and we've got a vested
interest in these ecosystems flourishing, so we can flourish, so
if I can do my bit to sort of look
after them.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I reckon it doesn't flourish a nice word. And that's
the thing that I got from looking through your book.
You flourish when you're out in the bush. It's the
place that centers you, It steadies you, and it does
so much for all of us, really, if we have
exposed ourselves to it. And and that's just the wonderful
(06:19):
thing about our nature here that it does. It's such
a treasure for humans. It's not just the bellbirds and
the and the pigeons that are enjoying it. Humans should
be out there enjoying it. And I just think you
had this incredible advantage of the parents and grandparents that
you had.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I sure do, and we you know, we're really lucky
with our far No, but I think wider than that,
you know, you've done a lot of youth work yourself, Hey, John,
And I feel like when we put foot young people
out into the bush, they sort of they after a
whole day, they start to light up and they start
to thrive, and some.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I work with that I would have liked to have
left out there. But anyhow, carry aren't you.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, that's right, I'll realize you.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I've got incredible grandparents that all took me in the
porsh and great parents as well, and uncles and aunties,
and we just what.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Were they like? What were your parents like?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
My parents are kind of alternative characters when I was young.
You know, Dad was a he was a tramper and
both of them climbed to Everest Base camp. So they
were quite adventurous type people. And so Dad would take
me into the bush and tramping and whitewater rafting, and
Mum would make all our food, like from scratch. You'd
bake all our own bread and biscuits, and had a
(07:30):
big mardi kai, a big garden. So quite wholesome sort
of people, I would say. And we just lived in
this not really cash rich environment, but this really loved
and nutured environment that was really connected to the land.
So that's how we were kind of raised there in Grisbon.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, And an interesting part of the upbringing was was
the Steiner school system too. If it's you know, if
you're going to be focused on nature and things, I
guess Steiner is the I don't know much about it,
but I do know you sat there instead of the
plant for a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That sounds odd, but is that true? Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
They have these things, these sessions in the morning called
main lessons, and every main lesson you study something particular
for three weeks. And so it might be Greek history,
it might be Egyptian history, it might be botany. And
so during the Botany main lesson every morning, they say, hey,
go out and choose a plant, and you're going to
(08:31):
sit with the same plant for you know, three weeks
and just observe it for half an hour. And some
people would think that's kind of crazy, and some people
got really bored, but for me, I kind of lit
up and just liked observing what was going on with
these foods. So, but I think the cool thing about
Steiner schools is they take each child's journey and they
(08:52):
sort of tailor the curriculum and to that child's journey,
and so you've got teachers that are hugely invested in
the kids there. So you know, I made the classroom
might not have been the best classroom for me, but
I had a bunch of teachers that saw, okay, this
kid's classrooms from going to be in the bush and
they made it happen for me.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, yeah, I get from the book that despite these
lovely influences you had, you did go off.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
The rails a wee bit.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
But the principle and your parents came up with a
unique novel thing that helped turn you into the bushman
you are.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Very much so. So like you know, I moved from
Gisbone to hawks Bay when I was twelve with my parents,
and you take this young young feller who's used to
rural Gisbin to the busy city and hawks Bay. They
punked me in the sort of bogan surfing community and
those guys partied really hard, and so that was the
(09:46):
social scene I got put in. I was a surfer,
and yeah, I'm really lucky to have had people that
saw what trajuice to I was going down and gave
me some opportunities and some gave me the storyline to
get me out of that as well, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And the thing they did was they let you have
a week off every term to go bush.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Terms all long for me, a like ten weeks for
a young like twelve year old that's not really thriving
in the school environment.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
They're really long. So that's Demi.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Bush in the middle of every term up to t
Itoita under these amazing trappers up there. There's one guy, Keith.
He had no teeth and he just walked around in
a Holy Woolen Bush t shirt. And yeah, he's Those
guys taught me about my place in the world in
relation to trees and plants and and how I could
(10:41):
contribute to these ecosystems that looked after me, and I
just haven't looked back.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It's somewhere where I could work hard, but it's also
somewhere I could contribute to it, somewhere that looked after me,
and I just found my place, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
If you just found us on your doll I'm talking
to seem the Trapman Gibson talking about his life as
a trapman, as a as a bushman, and as a conservationist.
So I'll be coming back and talking more about some
of the projects he's been on and also some of
the adventures. He said, this is real life on news talks.
He'd be back with you just a minute.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on Newstalks.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
Edb Well TuS Ita Jen said, there say Evil Gun
will release today. Hello fill say see your life self
fact it get well.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
This is real life.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'm John Cowan and each week we ask our guests
to pick some music that means something to them. Sam
the Trapman Gibson is joining me from down the knees
Cape somewhere, and you picked the Eastern. Tell us about
this band and why it means something to you.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I first came across the Eastern accidentally. I got tickets
to Old Crome Medicine show in Hawk's Bay and the Opera.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
House, and.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
This friend came on.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Start to start the show off, and that became amazing,
and they showed up old Coro medicine shows. So the Eastern.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
They're alive act.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
They're probably the best live act I've ever seen in
New Zealand. They're a bluegrass group and I think that
Adam he tells some incredible stories and it really resonates
with those gritty, working class, melancholic, hopeful stories that your
(12:40):
grittin determination and your faith in the world's going to
get you through those hard times. So hope and why
it's it talks about putting yourself back together with your
hope with hope pieces or Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Your third about incredible stories back in nineteen sixty seven, Well,
I was just a young fellow. I have the remarkable
experience of going into the bush with Barry Crump for
the day, and it was quite a memorable day. As
you can imagine. He was filming a show and so
I spent the day of Barry. But I know that
you wouldn't mind being pared with him with your books,
(13:16):
would you.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
He's a bit of a hero literary wise.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He's a bit of a rat bag, wasn't he?
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, I definitely. You know, I'm quite humbed with that
people compare me to Bury Crump literary wise. But I'm
not a drinker, and I hope I treat my life
a whole lot better in my kids, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
But your book that I've been reading, I haven't gotten
all the way through it, but about halfway through it
is just full of good stories, good yarns, and things
about your life as a trapper and as a hunter,
and just your passage through life and some fascinating things.
I mean, as I say, lots and lots of yards,
lots of stories. Some of the adventures and field land
(13:57):
are blood curdling, you know, falling off cliffs, getting shot at,
stuff like that. What's your favorite story? What would be
the sort of the most spined moment you've had in
the bush?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I think being shot at top tops and all. You know,
I've been shot at four times, and that really scares
the pants off you. It's one of those things where
you hear a bullet whistling past you and that just
it takes you a whole different taste. So yeah, that's
that's pretty nerve wrecking, that's for sure. But the favorite
stories I like telling those mischief ones around how to
(14:31):
how to dig long drops? And I do a lot
of talks and schools and kids get at a good
chuck out of how to dig a good duney.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You know, And I like the reasons what you give
why you should do a good one and not a
bad one. Perhaps not go and do that on radio,
but it's interesting stuff that Hey, if you're wanting a
good read, grab hold of your book, which is called
Sam the Trapman Gibson and just hunt it down. That's
still in some bookshops. I had to hunt for it
though it's obviously sold off the shelves in a lot
(15:00):
of places, but worth having a look at. In the book,
I get the idea that you're not a church guy,
but you do seem to have sort of a spiritualpproach to.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Life when you get in the bush.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I think it's really difficult to spend as much time
as I do in the bush and then not for
your spiritual connection. So, yeah, I don't go to church.
I was confirmed as a young person, but I yeah,
the bush is really that face I go that makes
me feel a deep connection. And yeah, I know every
(15:32):
day sort of for me, and the bush involves kuttakre
and reverence and gratefulness for things.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So if that makes sense, yeah, it does make sense.
And one of the other and interesting thing is like
you're a hunter. You know, that's your happy space when
you're out there hunting, and yet you're not when it
comes to taking the life from an animal. You're actually
thoughtful about it, you're philosophical about it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I don't know many hunters that like to kill things,
you know. I think that we like to be out there.
I think that we are really proud of the fact
that we can use our skills to provide for our
far No, but yeah, I don't know any hunters that
enjoy the actual taking of life. So when it comes
to taking something's life, yeah, we're very thoughtful about it.
(16:21):
We're very conscious about the way we do it. And
most hunters have a bit of our tea hunger, bit
of our way of showing their gratitude to their animals
as it passes and as they take that life. If
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, you emphasize you're only ever going after the things
that you can use. You know, it's going to be
food or something that you're going to be having at
home or something like that. So and in New Zealand
don't like perhaps anywhere else in the world, when you
go out hunting, you're not just not working against conservation values,
you're working for them. But I had a question, because
(16:56):
you're getting rid of the things that are destroying our
forests and everything, would you want, though taken to extreme,
if we got completely rid of the deer, completely rid
of the pigs and the things that you shoot. Surely
our bush would be grateful. But do you think you
is that a goal?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Would you have have all? Would you?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
That's a really that's a really good question, John A,
that's like quite a. That's a solid question. Thank you
for asking that question. That's a real solid philosophical question.
So for me, I feel like on every side of
our fuck Popper, our people have always been hunters. Doesn't
matter if we come from Europe or Polonies or or
(17:39):
alter it all here. It doesn't matter where we come from.
We've always been hunters. So for me it doesn't worry
me too much the species that we're hunting. You know
that I've lived in places where deer have pentiful. I've
lived in places where pigs are pentiful. I've been down
to the tt Islands and harvested t t wika on
on on the on the Chathams as well. So if
(18:01):
we had no deer and no pigs, that would mean
we had a lot of beds and we would still
be hunting and feeding our far under through that connection
and to then, So if you want to go philosophically,
that's where I go, but I don't actually think we've
got the tools to do that. I don't even I
don't think we've got the social want to do that
at this time.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
One of the interesting things is that you know, as
you've cast about doing different things, you found the right
people that come alongside you, and including an incredible woman.
And I was just first of all intrigued by the
very twenty first century way that you met each other,
but also what your idea of a romantic getaway was
(18:43):
and tell us a bit about that.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah, I was really best to have met my wife.
You know, she's one of the greatest things in my life.
Gisband's a small place. I'll say that, you know, I'll
find it. So from Gisbone that I got told couldn't date,
I go from Gisbond because we're probably related, So it's
a small gene ful. So yes, and we met on
(19:09):
the esteem dating it called Tinder, and we did the
odd swipe right thing and went for a walk on
the beach and the rest is history. But the first
really big adventure we went on together. We walked into
the ocommata. Rangers and people that are familiar with it ocommat.
It's pretty remote and there's still wild cattle kicking around
in there. So we were walking up this river and
(19:31):
we stumbled across this herd of wild cattle and I
said to said, do you want to shoot one? And
she said like, definitely not, and so I was like, okay,
I'll take a shot. So I settled down and I
had this big moment where I was really nervous because
I wasn't nervous of the cattle beasts necessarily. I was
nervous of the cattle bees come stampede across the river
(19:53):
and hurting roy Mater because roy Matter's dad is like,
he's like seven foot, he's a big man, and rou
Mats has like his daughter. So I was quite nervous
about that. But so managed to deck one of the cows,
and once we decked it, we kind of realized how
big it was, and so to be able to carry
it out it was going to be seven hours. So
(20:14):
I loaded a beck leg onto Roumutter's pack, and a
beck leg of a kettle beast is quite large, and
I loaded at back leg onto my pack as well.
I carried the backstacks and roy Mutter only managed to
fall over twice in the river, which was pretty good,
and we made a deal she wasn't going to cry
until we got to the big hill at the end
of the of the tracks. So we got to that
(20:35):
big hill at the end of the track and I
think we made it to the to the truck at
eleven pm at night, and she cried pretty much up
the whole way up the hill, and I like supportingly
talked her through it and carried what I could carry
of hers and we got to the end and I
was like, right, do you want to go bush again
at some point and she said yes.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And I was like, wow, you found the right woman.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You found that, You've probably found the only woman even
on the Ease Cape that would carry half a cow
up a mountain for you, And so obviously thought, yep,
this is a keeper.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And two kids later, that's obviously been confirmed.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And those kids, I've watched a few by the way,
folks go online and track down Sam the Trapman and
on online because there's lots of videos of him, some
of them with his kids, and they just love the
bush as much as as you do. How have you
put that love of the bush into your kids' lives
and hearts.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
My dad said to me, none of us really know
how to parent, but just parent where you feel the
most comfortable, and then your kids will get the best
version of yourself. And so I started taking my kids
into the bush as a young person, like when they
were real young, who was trapping with me in the
backpack and I was just figuring out how to be
your dad. And so I really instilled that love of
(21:53):
the forest through the kay, through the food, and my
kids just light up being able to read which trees
will grow mushrooms that they can eat, and what fruits
are going to drop when. So like when the when
our kids see the kidder, do fear this is dropping
on the ground. When they start to mold, they know
that the Kahika tear is fruiting in the tops of
the trees, and then that Kahika tars about to drop
(22:14):
their fruit for our kids to eat them. So our
kids kind of, I don't know, they're a bit strange
because I'm a bit strange. And so they walk through
the bush reading all these talk week in science.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We could do with a lot more strange looks like
that in our country. So thank you very much, seam
for everything. You're doing for our forests, for our nature,
for the way you're encouraging people to look after our
beautiful land.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Wish you all the best and all good luck with.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Your upcoming politics and with your and by the way, folks,
do check out on TV Plus. I think like a forest.
It's a great little darker and we're going out on
another song.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What have you picked for us?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I've picked by you Country by Grits. It comes from
Louisiana and I love the way I love there making
a Chai culture over there. There's a lot of similarities
to the East Coast with the flooding as well, and
when I was in the States, I really resonated with
those people. They're good.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
My guest tonight's been Sam the Trapman Gibson and it's
been a thoroughly enjoyable talk.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Thank you so much, Sam, Wish you all the best.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Appreciate you John, Appreciate Big Sam behind the scenes. I
look forward to going bush with you soon.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Teller, this is real life on News Talks. There'd be
back with you again next Sunday night. For more from
News Talks.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Ed b listen live on air or online and keep
our shows with you Wherever you go with our podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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