March 9, 2025 • 40 mins
Amanda Morrall joins to discuss how you can stabilise your finances in the midst of an economy in turmoil.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B. S.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Flowers.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well my name and said, talking myself for hours.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
See things you don't understand.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
I can take yourself dandy again, money.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Can love Fever.
Speaker 6 (00:37):
You game, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Of course we're I'm looking out with the with the
old health up there with Alex Flint from body Talk.
If you missed that hour of the Politics out, you
can check it out on our where where we put
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Speaker 6 (01:00):
Just look for the Weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Collective and we generally get the auto audio up for
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suddenly waves at me and goes, no, no, no, no,
not yet.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
She's given me the thumbs up already. She's so onto it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
There we go, but right now it is smart money
and joining me is she's a finance author and specialist,
and her name is well known to everyone. She should
just say hello and when everyone will go, oh, it's
Amanda Morale. How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Amanda gid E. It's a beautiful summary day here is
that today? Have you been. Have you been out getting
yours ten thousand steps as recommended.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm recovering from doing ten x plus because I was
doing a cycle trip for five days and I was
just telling your last guest. You know, anybody's over the
age of seventy a week encouraged. And my father is
eighty two.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
Eighty two.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We did about three hundred kilometers through the Mackenzie Country
mountain baking, some of them up very steep pills.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
So at eighty two.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Age is a state of mind to some degree.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
That is actually quite impressive with us. Moments when you thought, God,
you sure you don't need.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
To rest yet?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, especially in the post Baker session when he was
still at the bar, didn't slow him down, went bit
the next day, unlike me, try and hard play, Haideez.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That has to be genetics a bitters, he always.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think we were talking with Tyro as well. I
think it's a discipline, you know, and if you're used
to having a base level of activity, genetics may play
a part, of course, but if you're regular about it
over the years, and certainly that was the case with
my father when he was my age, he'd be climbing
mountains every weekend and skiing crazy hollyski, you know, always
super hyperactive kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Gosh, got a great life.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I do not think I'll be doing what he's
doing at agy two, but you know, never say never.
But he's certainly a good role model for And they
were on a group with seventy year olds and they
were super impressed. And I think they're now booking forward
for you.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Were lowering the average ie. Obviously you participate.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That was the youngster on the trip. That made me
feel good.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
They like a juvenile love.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Being the young one.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Gosh, since were we When do we last catch up?
It's been a little while, But times have changed, though,
haven't we. We've got we've got a lot of uns.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Actually. One of the things we wanted to kick off with,
which is, you know that just.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
The whole global economy, and we were trying to try
to avoid the politics because that doesn't leave it lead me.
We're happy, but I don't think it's contentious that what's
going on with the leadership and the States.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
With tariffs on again, off again.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Terrible tea. There's a couple of terrible ta where.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's going terrible tea is the tariffs and and Trump
has but you know, he seems like he's not going
to put them on so heavily on Canada. But they're like, well, no, no,
and still you until you get rid of them back
where they were. We're leaving the one our retaliatory ones on.
There's going to be a battle with the with China.
Maybe they don't know what's happening there in Mexico. Are
(04:00):
tariffs are coming our way? It feels that and the
dal Jones didn't didn't like it very much. Then that
there Jones goes, we don't mind it so much, and
then all of a sudden, no, no, we don't like it.
We're living in tumultuous times. It does become a little
bit problematic for people investing in.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
A way at all.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You need a tough stomach around these times. Certainly, anybody
who's checked their kV server balance will be quite shocked,
especially if there a growth fund don't check them. I'm
telling you just I.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Should check it. While while I will.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Check this, particularly those around growth oriented funds, because those
are the stocks that are really getting hammered. So there's, yeah,
there's a tilta world going on. But you know, I'm
kind of if you're if you're like most kV servers,
you're invested for the long term. Just put your seat
belt on and buckle up.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Funny thing was I was thinking, because I'm optimistic that
I'm going to live forever and keep on saving for
my KI saver forever, I was thinking of switching to
a growth fund, and I just got a bit lazy
and didn't do it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Just worked out well for me, I guess not alone.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Apathy is agreed enemy of most people.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's my strengths this time, because if I'd shoved it
in a growth fund, I probably would have how much
What have we seen that's happened to the average key
we saver funds?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Well, again, it depends what fund you're in. Certainly, I
just did a little peek at some of my investments
just before coming on the show, and it was an
OUCH moment. So just you know, close that down and
thinking of the future because with Trump in church, you
never know what the future halts.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
It's yeah, what.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Actually there is something to do with that as well,
in terms of if you are attaching your well being
to the well being of your investments, it would be
a real rollercoaster ride isn't it. And I find that
when I'm producing concerts and there's a lot on the line,
you can't hinge your happiness to the ultimate result. You've
just got to look out the window and think, well,
(05:53):
the sun is shining, I'm alive and I'm breathing, and
life's good.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Oh yes, I mean there's a lot to be said
for taking deep brass and staying calm and carrying on,
which you have to and buy and large. Again, most
investors are invested for the long term, particularly those who
are in kybceiver, so you kind of have to try
to look past this. The damage is done now, of course,
what happened We saw this with COVID. A lot of people,
you know, hit the panic button. They switched out of
(06:18):
and if you know, if some people are in growth
phones for the right reasons, some not because they can't
handle the volatility, and then they do erratic things. They
switch into conservative type phones, and then you know, things
turn around because tomorrow is a new day and the
stocks rally, and then they want to switch back in
and it costs some more money. So there's a well
(06:40):
tested mantra in the investment world. A but you I
sort of helt time the markets. It's time in the
market that counts.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I sort of thought we had learned that lesson, haven't we,
But it seemed the same headlines were cropping up because
I mean, I guess I do host a show called
smart money, and like to think I might have learned
one or two lessons, because otherwise that made me pretty stupid. Ah,
that'd be too harsh on myself. Ton But but the
one lesson, one of the lessons is that when if
(07:08):
the top times hit there's some sort of bad news
in the market starts, you know, slumps, you're too late
to make that change if you're in, especially if you
better to not grin and bear it. But unless you
unless you've got some sort of I mean, I don't know,
if a stop marketed a genuine crash with as a point,
it's like, well, accept that loss, but get out.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But of course, you know you got to hold the course.
I think for people for whom it's most painful, particularly
if it's a prolonged downturn, are those when we're talking
about KIV saver, those who are invested for the purposes
of a first home, and you know they were probably
rubbing their hands in gleasing how much money they could
expect to be taking out, and then if they were
(07:49):
in a growth fund for example, or high growth fund,
and now it's dropped considerably and they'll be wincing that
their home deposit is less than it should have been.
And likewise, people at the other end of the scale,
closer to retirement, and I think we're talking about that
leader in the show what you should be doing with
your Kii shaver once you reach that accumulation stage. You know,
(08:10):
they when there's an immediate need for that money and
you're looking at your current balance that's gone down, you know,
twenty or thirty percent. It's it's painful, right, but there's
not too many people who are have a need to
draw on that money immediately, so you have to hope
that things will, you know, the be a course correction
and things will improve over time. Unfortunately, what's added to
(08:31):
the injury here is that the stock work was quite
overheated anyhow, particularly in the equity space. So in addition
to being at you know, higher than fair value, we've
got you know, this crazy volatility and geopolitical instability happening
out there, so you know, it's it's very nauseating for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
But what is the I mean, if there are, of course,
out of difficult times and uncertainty, there are people who
who are canny who can actually make a killing as well.
Because they look at the slump that frightens everyone away,
a lot of people will jump in and use I mean,
that's the people who are looking to maybe catch the bounce.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
That's right, But that's a dangerous game to plan.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Really, it is a dangerous game, and I would not
recommend that for people who don't know what they're doing.
Because the last time we had saw this kind of
terriff threat upon us, it was back in the twenties
and the United States tried this on and whilst it
had the benefit of short term protectionism, the longer term
fact is it it is directly attributed to the depression. Okay,
(09:39):
and so if you're thinking that you're going to cash
in double down and then things go down for a
longer period of time, well you know you'll be worse.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
L for it.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Let's delve under the history Lisson there.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I wasn't expecting you to bring up the twenties, but
so I'm not that old. Well that's that's partly why
but so what I mean, I don't know what the
situation with tariff says because it seems to change to
the president's women. He hates the dow Jones going down.
That's when can we know about him. That's consistent. He
(10:11):
doesn't like seeing stock losses. So that's the punishment for
a policy he might respond to. So put it in
a historical context in terms of, you know, when when
the world was in a trade war with itself? Do
we have to go back that far back?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well that you know, that's probably the moment in history
that teaches us the most. Yeah, because it was akin
to the level of tariffs that we're seeing now, or
it probably even less so. And you know, it's never
one thing that you know, sets off, as you know,
the avalanche, but it certainly contributed to it back then
in nineteen twenty two and then nineteen thirty and then boom,
(10:48):
things blew up and we were in, you know, for
a very protracted period of financial doom and gloom. And well,
you know when we saw it again in twenty eighteen
during President Trump's first reign, when he threatened China with tariffs,
and that respond you know, he reacted with retivalutory terror
or the China did, and then consumer goods went up
(11:08):
for the poor American citizens. So it's very volatile, and
I think for an individual investor, you know, they always
say diversity is the best form of protection, so you know,
instead of trying to time the market or pick certain
stocks that you think are going to go up and down,
you know you're best off to have a range of
different assets, across different asset classes, across different countries. And again,
(11:31):
if you're a Kiwi siver, most of those funds are
well diversifised, most of them.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I think I heard some comments as well around the
whole implementing tariffs that what Trump wants to achieve with
the tariffs is not as straightforward as he might have
even if he was relying on the lessons of the past,
because we are so much more interconnected. Economies are so
much more intertwined with each other, and it's not as
(11:58):
clean cut to say, and I think.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
He found that out with Canada.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It's like, for instance, looking for the he's now created
the exceptions for the automotive industry because there's goods that
go back and forth and metals and things and of
course everything's intertwined.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
There's not.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It's not as simple as he might have thought.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Is that a fact?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And you know Canada is not as big as the
US by population, but certainly you know we've got a
decent population and economic growth. And what you've seen now
there is Canada, all the provinces rallying together like they've
never seen and so there could be more intertrade between
you know, provinces. And also you bet your bottom dollar
(12:38):
they are exploring other trade of partners. The US and
Canada are the largest trade partner in the world. Canada
maybe was a bit too reliant on that. We'll be
looking forward.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So we've heard, I mean, we haven't quite delved into
the topic we were going to, but it's an interesting
conversation because we haven't. I did notice when I heard
Todd McLay I think, being interviewed by Mike Hosking, that
he was talking about the opportunities that might they're actually
I mean maybe he was putting a gloss on it
as well, well, nobody wants tariffs and we don't want
tariffs and nobody does, but he was saying that there
(13:10):
are there may actually be other opportunities that open up
for US to divert our trade because countries that are
going to be hit by the same tariffs might decide
that they want to buy from US rather than the
States or things like that. It's that it was fascinating
watching everything and from a from on with a C
plus and economics stage one.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, trading relationships could change the very nature of them
and people who were well, I mean, look at Russian
and the US right, So the nature is changing. I
think comra heads will ultimately prevail, but I think now
people are reassessing their partnerships, et cetera. So, but getting
back to the investor, because it can all be very
(13:52):
dizzying to be watching this show and waking up of
themorrow morning. You thought you were caught up in the
news and it's all changed overnight again. You know, be invested.
Understand what fund I guess you're invested in, and this
applies to KIV savers are those who are invested outside
a kvsaver, who have perhaps a managed fund portfolio. Understand
your time frame for investing, because again most people are
(14:17):
invested over a longer term. If your time frame was
shorter and you were in the wrong type of assets,
you know, maybe ought to reconsider, but just use this
as an opportunity for a bit of a review. Don't
lose your head and panic. There's some great tools on
sordi dot org. We've discussed this many times, to do
a risk profile, to see what fund your properly should
(14:40):
be in for your age and for your for your goals.
And you know, I know it sounds all very boring,
but I think when you have that knowledge behind you,
then you can again don't check your kbsaver balance this
week and just keep on, you know, keep on plugging away.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
This is just a guess, but we live in you know,
the giga sort of economy with technology fingertips within a nanoseconds.
So the stock market falls, boomit goes. Does that mean
I have a sense that maybe in you go back
decades that there felt there was a different response you
(15:19):
could give because things moved.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A bit slow.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Whereas these days, if there's been a slump, don't that
whatever happens, it's been priced in. You're not going to
be able to make a decision that defeats what's just happened, you.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's I was thinking, as the answer would be when
things are looking tough by gold. But if things are
looking tough, the gold price has already changed. It's already
sort of prices that in I mean, or are their
commodities where you go, well, actually, we're in a very
unstable environment. This class of assets is where you should
be sticking your money.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Even professionals will have difficulty knowing what's ahead during what's
going on right now. So again I think best of bases.
Stick to your knitting.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
And if you're knitting is not financed, then harve.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
A chart with your I mean, you'll find that. Again.
Most fund managers are putting out notices with you know
again advice to keep a commer had and you know,
if you're if you're a d trader for example, well
hopefully you've gotten gotten into that with you know, a
great level of confidence and knowledge yourself to know that
you know you can take those losses just as much
(16:26):
as you can take those gains. But you know, the
vast majority of people will you know, be having fund managers?
Can we say were providers again, just make sure you're
in the right fund for your fund appetiting.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
We'd love to we'd love to have your calls. We
are in uncertain times.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
We're not going to talk about whether you like Trump
or not, but we are in uncertain times, and I
don't think that is beyond I don't think it's beyond
arguing in a way arguable. But where do you put
your money? What do you do with your finances? And
what's the approach you take when you feel things are
a little bit uncertain or do you sort of just
go well, I didn't see it coming, it's happened. There's
probably not much I can do. I just leave the
(17:04):
money where it is. I'd love your cause if you've
got to want to give us the benefit of your advice.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
If you've got a question from Amanda Morale, who is
our guest in studio today, finance specialist and author, it
is well. The number is eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
The text is nine two nine two in the time
is twenty four past five. Yes, we're talking in these
uncertain times. Where do you stick your money? What can
you do to make sure make your finances feel a
(17:32):
little bit less susceptible to the volatile influences of the times.
Let's take some calls. We were with Amanda Morrale, financial
author and specialist Andrew Good afternoon, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Good afternoon. Hey Andrew, Amanda, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Lovely day here in Willington.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
That's good to hear. Good to know.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
What would you like to share with us, Andrew?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Well, I think I guess, Well, there's probably multiple questions,
but I just can't ask them all. But one of
the things that I realized some time ago while I
was working. So I'm retired now fifty two, and I
used to work for a bank in America called JP
(18:27):
Morgan Chase, and we used to sell a lot of
index funds. I think even Barclay's had a reis that
they sold to black Rock. But nonetheless, what they do
is they just you know, it's a diverse fight and
(18:48):
investment and they have a very low commission rate on them.
But I don't know what happens here in New Zealand
through the KIWI say of funds do they actually have
because I have a hey, we say the funds. Yeah, absolutely,
(19:08):
they're working a lot. But do they know I'll guess
my question here is are they managed funds or are
they r E I t LL no, no, no, that's
a real estate investment trust.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah. No, we've got a combination. Yeah, so we've got
there's a range of different funds offered, and they're differently
managed depending on whether your manager is passive or active.
But Smart Shairs, for example, sells several ETFs. Some fund
managers have a strategy that blends both. For example, Simplicity
(19:49):
is an index provider with very very low fees and
Kernel Wealth as well index fund provider. They're more of
a pure index fund play. And there's a few others
there that some of you used to use black Rock
I think a sp for d X fund selection. So
thank you for raising that point. Because the key with
index funds is that typically or ETFs as well, they're
(20:13):
a little bit differently, is that you get the benefit
of a lower fee and in a long term situation
over time, which is typically keep you saver, that the
impact of those lower fees compounded over time and your
fund is generating market returns in theory that should see
you quite well through to the future. So they were
(20:34):
extremely popular about ten years ago to the barefoot investor.
There's a lot of evangelists for index funds out there
for that reason. So Yeah, very good option, and they
do certainly exist in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Are you an evangelist for the index funds, Andrew or
where are you putting your money these days?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I don't trust banks. It complete because there so, you know,
so weird did the phase come from on? Because when
do you.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Put your money? When you put your money?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
They used the banks as market access to creating an
et y, So then it's multiple layers of commission going
through the system. And that's just sort of like, I'm
not I'm not aliy with it. So when you think
about an et year charge are very low. But the
(21:33):
charge from you know, from you know, the source of
the water has probably been charged about five times. But
they are still good, you know, they like you're not
going to in the world or try and fight, you know,
find every government along the way.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, no, they're I'm glad you phoned and pointed that out.
And I would say to any listener who's interested in
learning more and explaining exploring the difference between the different
fund providers and the different types of funds out there,
money hub dot co and Zed basically explores them all
and so there's some great information there and smart investor
(22:16):
is a great place for comparing fees and the different
Kisiver products and none Kisiver products out there, all on
the basis of fees and returns as well, because that's
the other part of the equation over time. Who buys
gold these days, well, apparently a lot of people are
because they're worried there's going to be another war.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
So is it because.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Currently it's a Differensive's.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Attractive, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But if I bought gold, I'd actually want the gold bars.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
I'd want to have them. Well, I wouldn't say my sock.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Draw You ever felt one? They're quite heavy.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
I have.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I did know someone who actually bought gold physically and
had it and and showed me his gold bars, and
I held one. It was wasn't a gold bar like
in the in the James Bond film.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think You've been Captured by James Bond.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
It was goldfinger. Yes, he's the man with the Martis Touch.
Now it's sort of like the size of a of
a large cell phone.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It would still be quite heavy and.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It's quite satisfying to hold it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
There's some security in that, and that's why it's considered
a defensive you know, asset. However, you know, if you're
buying physical gold, you have these issues of storage. What
happens if you you know, you're talking about it too
much widely on the airwaves, and next minute you're robbed.
Somebody's got your gold bars.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So I don't have gold by the way, people I
work on overnight talk, I'm not sitting on gold bars.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
But you can buy into funds that have exposure to gold,
so that might be a safer option if you're thinking
the World War threads around the corner there too.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Oh gosh, well anyway, fingers crossed, I john hello, oh.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Hello, the other man said I I as far as
a managed fun I would have thought thanked the safest
for a managed fun because at the banks, if they
managed fund collapsed, I'm sure the bank would still are that.
I wouldn't say the private people would banks have got money.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, the thing, if you're talking, thank you for your call,
you've raised a good point. If you're talking about Kiwi Saver,
they're all have a supervisor. So in theory you're you
should be as safe with an independent as you are
with the bank because of that layer of supervision. There's
no other product in New Zealand that's regulated and supervised
(24:36):
and monitored quite as much as Kiwi Saver, so that
that risk issue is less so.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But if somebody invests, I think there's something that John
said that he said if you if you invest in
with a particular fund and it collapses, the bank would
stand by. But I'm that's a bit of a loaded
question because if you invest in a particular fund that
as the bank's investment fails, then I'm not sure the
bank bank has to say.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I think he's talking about government guarantees and that applies
equally to term deposits and those are capped as well.
Haven't looked into this recently, but I thought the cap
is up to one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's funny, you know, just I don't want to get
distracted by gold because it sort of feels like the
sort of I don't know, lighter conversation away because everyone
loves talking about God.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
But somebody.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I have had quite a few people from more than
one place say that if they want it, we're going
to buy gold. They would make sure they bought it
so they could physically hold it, because they were very cynical.
And I've had more than one person that said this.
They're very cynical about the idea that you buy a
share in gold that somehow you have a certificate and
someone has it and just.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
I don't know, if you bought gold, would you want
the actual.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Would you want the Well, I guess it's the same
feeling you would have having a vault full of dollars,
right and again during COVID and I'm not joking a
lot of people, you know, during downtimes and stable times,
people get very fearful. I know one fell who went
immediately to the bank and got out a whole whack
of cash because of this concern about you know, the
(26:10):
panic and what if scenarios. Equally, you know a lot
of crypto fans out there thinking that that might be
a safer bet if you know, the economy blows up
and they it all turned to digital currencies or cryptocurrencies.
So people are quite you know, understandably scared during times
(26:31):
of uncertainty, and that's why people might feel that having
pockets full of gold or gold coins that you can
buy might offer them some sort of security. But again,
I think you really do have to take a deep
breath here, look at your overall position. Again, I can't
emphasize enough. I mean, are you in the right fund
(26:52):
for your fund profile? Like, if you don't like taking
risks and you're exposed to a very aggressive type fund
because you were just chasing the high returns of yesteryear,
you never should have been there to begin with. And
there's certain person investor profiles and quizzes you can take
that'll kind of get you steer you into the right
one if you do the right things. And this is
(27:13):
Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world.
You know, just be a regular investor, carry on investing,
make regular contributions over time. That way you'll catch the ups.
You know, you'll ride through the downtimes, but over the
long course, not paying too much in fees, et cetera.
To the point of the last two callers, that you'll
do okay by the time you need that money at retirement.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
It's hard to argue with Warren Buffett in a way,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Because I'm not going to argue with that, are you.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
He doesn't like he doesn't like tariffs much either, does.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
A Okay, it's a very no nonsense kind of guy,
you know, And yeah, he's just like Yoda. He's very wise.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
We're going to take some more calls in just a moment.
It's twenty two minutes to six. Where do you put
your money when times get tough?
Speaker 6 (27:59):
We also we did forward sell.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
This will touch on when you should resist that temptation
to touch your KEII saver to buy that first home
or to I don't know, maybe even when it's matured
and it's time to take it out, should you just
leave it in there? Well, might touch on that before
we wrap things up, because time does fly when you're
having fun. It's twenty two minutes to sex News Talks.
He'd be that's welcome back to smart Money. This is
(28:37):
the weekend collect where they put your money in tricky times?
Should I say it's a bit unstable. We don't know
if tariffs are on or off. We don't know how
the world's going and how it's going to Where would
you put your money? But if you've got any questions
for Amanda Morele, who's a finance specialist and author who
is with us in the.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Studio, then give us a call. By the way, interesting,
we were talking about.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The tariffs, and many people will know Amanda because probably
your pet peever is a Canadian is when people can't
work out what you're acts. But it's worth mentioning that
opened the boot and have a good one. E.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Do I cover all those cliches?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
No, No, I just want people to know that you
were America.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you for I'm wearing my maple leaft today.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Actually, by the way, somebody did remind us, just as
a point of view of maybe challenging hypocrisy of Canada
was actually I've forgotten about this about Canada's conduct regarding
our dairy trade. Remember, there was some agreement that they
failed to one, and we've took them to the w WTO,
which ruled.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
In our favor.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
But Canada, Canada didn't behave very well and then bought
the facts.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There was some protectionism taking place towards their dairy farmers.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
That's the one so Steve's written in New Zealand as
a trade agreement with Canada grouting dairy. They've failed it
to honor it, even after the WTO ruled in our favor.
They're the last people you should mean about tariffs. There
is a slight carmic point to that point, isn't there
is there?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is a bit of a sledgehammer, I would
say to a little mosquito bait. But you know, f
I take your point.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Hanging on a second, I'm just trying to get a
view because the sun is streaming into a studio with
reflections everywhere. Oh, this is an interesting one from muzz.
I know it's completely a moral tom, but I've been
looking at weapon making companies around the world with all
the increase in defense spending by government's because of Trump,
I just throw that and there is an interesting text.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
No, and he's not wrong to think that because and
look at all the defensive spending that's been announced recently
in Germany, Cannadable, yeaping its defense spending, Australia, et cetera.
So I it's within the key we saver space. Again.
You know, we've got.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
A little do that, do we?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
There has been a lot of exclusions made on defensive spending.
But you know, outside of that, I suspect and I'm
not making an ethical judgment on any of that that
that might see you through, you know if you're a
stock picker. But you know, I let's hope.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
That managed funds that specially are they managed funds at specialist.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Sinstocks what they're called sinstocks real so things like and
mostly they've been purged from a lot of qv savers.
We're talking alcohol, weapons makers, you know, gambling, the pornography industry,
those kind of things. You know, they're not nice for humanity,
but you know, some of them have made quite a
(31:32):
bit of money. So you know, you probably could buy
an ETF on sinstocks. I'm pretty sure that exists, and
see how you go there. But you know, do you
They had.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
An interesting point. I mean, we have discussed the morality
of investing. We've touched on this a few weeks ago.
But it's a funny one because you could listen tobacco, yes, sinstock, porno,
since stock. We can think of plenty of things that
are sinstocks. But I think and weapons manufacturing sounds inherently
a moral but of course immoral, but because but the
(32:06):
fact is as well that democracies who want to defend themselves,
it's a moral act to defend yourself, and you need
to have those sort of weapons to defend yourself.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
So I sort of have.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
This feeling that they're not as obviously am moral because
their affect their effective life.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I read one thing that the Dalai Lama is attributed
as saying, and again you'd have to run it through
the fact checking, the you know, because of what happened
to his home country. But the best offense was a
good defense, and somebody had asked him about, you know,
if they'd been more equipped to defend their nation. Is
that wrong? So I'm not again the offense. Oh yeah,
(32:46):
it's a good defense.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
That sounds like a baseball thing. Originally.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You can see why it's a deterrent, which is why
everybody's scared of the US. Okay, yeah, but anyhow, I'm
not making a call on that, and I really hope
things sort themselves out sooner than later. With the world, well,
I don't know, it's an unstable place.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
It is, it does. Isn't funny?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We are living in these times which I always imagined
when you would look back to other times in the
world where we've felt this great termoil that I always
felt we had this smug sort of way of looking
back and going, oh, of course, you know, there were
some really terrible decisions made and some terrible people put
in these positions and things, and I thought, of course,
we'll never get there again, because Western democracy is very
(33:26):
smart and all that sort of thing, and all of
a sudden we see them ourselves in this potentially very
tumultuous time. And let's not get disastrous about it, but
we are in tumultuous times. Okay, here's a simple question
away from the answer manufacturer, I'm at a conservative fund.
I'll be sixty five in eleven months. Should I be worried?
(33:51):
Intend to pay off mortgage which will be half my key?
We savor, thanks, hmm, because I would almost jump in
before you and say, if you're in a conservative fund,
probably not such a concern.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
But anyway, again, everybody is suchuation is different, and you know,
you've got this longevity question that faces most people you
know at sixty five, which is like if keep Saver
or another managed fund is basically all you've got to
last plus New Zealand super you're going to have to
(34:23):
manage that money very closely or carefully rather over the years.
Say you're projected to live to the age of average
age if we were just discussing it before the show
for men around eighty, then you need that money to last.
So you know, these are the kind of questions that
will be you know, keeping people like the gentleman who
(34:44):
wrote in awake at night, because they'll be wondering, you
know how much you're going to have. So fortunately there's
some good tools for doing forecasting these days on something
called a safe withdrawal rate. So even if he does
I don't know the size of his balance there, but
if he does withdraw half and has his debt free
and he's got his New Zealand, super what you're left
(35:06):
with in that particular fund, if you remain invested and
it makes the average return it keeps taking away, you'll
be able to calculate from that how much you can
get on a weekly basis, factoring in inflation, and you
know you might need to up it, or you reduce
the amount that you're planning on paying down on the mortgage,
or you might be in a safe place. So this
(35:28):
there's in great tools to give you some peace of
mind about how much you could expect to get within
certain parameters. So that may give them.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I think the conservative fund too, when you tie that
into we're living in uncertain times, a conservative fund, if
you unless you've taken your money out and locked in
the loss and stuck at a conserve fund. But if
this person's been a conservative fund for a few years,
there's no cause for.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
Real alarm on their part.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Is there with their investment compared to if you were
in a growth fund.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I get well they would have in relative terms, they
should have lost less in recent months, but you know,
the bond market has been doing a lot of wonky
things too recently, so it's all over the show. This
is why again I encourage people to look at their
Kiwi saver, their last annual member statement. They use projections
about what you can long term averages, what you could
(36:21):
reasonably expect to get in terms of a return for
those different fund types. And I think with a growth fund,
you might think they've done twenty two percent in the
last year, but the projection that they use in the
in the long term figures is more around five percent mark.
So they take into account these great moments, you know,
(36:44):
blackswan events, they call them, you know GFC type events,
and smooth them out over time using historical data and
say no, this is what you should plan for and
if you've got another fifteen twenty five years to be
invested in, it's going to return that average amount potentially
then you can kind of figure out, you know, with
your current spending or future spending, how much you we
(37:06):
left with at the end of the day. So fortunately
for this person, they've got the New Zealand super which
will be adding to their account, so they can rely
on that. Yeah, probably you know until their their their
end days and you know, if they've got other private savings,
you pile that into If you're not, if your mortgage free,
you know, well it depends on your lifestyle too.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, actually being being able to path your mortgage. This
person says half of their key, we say, we'll go.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
Pay off the mortgage.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
But gosh, it makes a huge difference just getting rid
of that regular debt you have to service, isn't.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
That absolutely Especially and we don't know what's going on
with interest rates and whilst they've been going down, who
knows whether they're going to have to go back up
happening what's going on worldwide, So yeah, not having debt
is always a very sweet position to be sitting in,
and it helps you to kind of plan going forward
a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Right, we need to take a quick moment, we'll be
back in just to take where Amanda Morale. This is
smart money. You can give us a call. We much
and have time to squeeze a quick cover.
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
It is eight and a half minutes to six. Yes,
welcome back. Gosh, time flies and hardly anytime left with
Amanda Morale, financial finance author and specialist. But we did
say we're going to talk about well, we've didn't touch
on a couple of key we say with things, we'll
just have to leave it to the issue of decumulation,
that time when you have reached the age where you
can take it out, and what you should do with that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, so we touched on this with your last person
who you emailed inn is what should you do with
your money when you can actually tap it? Because you
count until sixty five, and so some people might have
the idea that they're going to take the lot out
and you know, just blow it all in a nice
holiday and a new car, etc. Hopefully you've got more
invested than just those little rewards. So typically speaking, depending
(38:51):
on your situation, you would likely want it remain invested
because of you know, the prospect of living much longer
than the retirement age of sixty five, in which case
you want to be continuing to generate decent returns and
understand what a safe withdrawal rate is for you. To
the point at which your money will old.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
You can always take it out.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
So would you leave in the KB Saber fund or
would you look for another managed fund? I guess you've
just got a bit more choice to expect.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
They're much the same really, Again, the things that you
want to look for are decent long term returns, low fees. Yeah,
and a group of people who you trust to manage
your money, you know well in line with your values.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
That's something I think we might have a chat about
on another time when we get you on, because I
think that there's lots so many funds, but actually working
out which organization you want to trust your money in
because you don't you don't get to go into the
room and sit down with the investors and look them
can be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah. Mary Holmes written some wonderful books on how to
choose KB server provider and fund tape, et cetera.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Good stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Hey, thanks, Gosh, I don't know where the time anyway,
Thanks so much for coming on. If you've missed any
of the show, go and check out a pod cast,
and we'll look forward to your company again the same
time next weekend. Sunday It's six is next. Thanks to
my producer tire Robits. Have a great rest of you Sunday,
Get you so.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B. S.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Flowers.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well my name and said, talking myself for hours.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
See things you don't understand.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
I can take yourself dandy again, money.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Can love Fever.
Speaker 6 (00:37):
You game, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Of course we're I'm looking out with the with the
old health up there with Alex Flint from body Talk.
If you missed that hour of the Politics out, you
can check it out on our where where we put
our podcast, which is on news Talk, said B dot
C and ZID or iHeartRadio.
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Just look for the Weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Collective and we generally get the auto audio up for
those hours pretty quickly once they've concluded, unless my producer
suddenly waves at me and goes, no, no, no, no,
not yet.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
She's given me the thumbs up already. She's so onto it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
There we go, but right now it is smart money
and joining me is she's a finance author and specialist,
and her name is well known to everyone. She should
just say hello and when everyone will go, oh, it's
Amanda Morale. How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Amanda gid E. It's a beautiful summary day here is
that today? Have you been. Have you been out getting
yours ten thousand steps as recommended.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm recovering from doing ten x plus because I was
doing a cycle trip for five days and I was
just telling your last guest. You know, anybody's over the
age of seventy a week encouraged. And my father is
eighty two.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
Eighty two.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We did about three hundred kilometers through the Mackenzie Country
mountain baking, some of them up very steep pills.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
So at eighty two.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Age is a state of mind to some degree.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
That is actually quite impressive with us. Moments when you thought, God,
you sure you don't need.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
To rest yet?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, especially in the post Baker session when he was
still at the bar, didn't slow him down, went bit
the next day, unlike me, try and hard play, Haideez.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That has to be genetics a bitters, he always.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think we were talking with Tyro as well. I
think it's a discipline, you know, and if you're used
to having a base level of activity, genetics may play
a part, of course, but if you're regular about it
over the years, and certainly that was the case with
my father when he was my age, he'd be climbing
mountains every weekend and skiing crazy hollyski, you know, always
super hyperactive kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Gosh, got a great life.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I do not think I'll be doing what he's
doing at agy two, but you know, never say never.
But he's certainly a good role model for And they
were on a group with seventy year olds and they
were super impressed. And I think they're now booking forward
for you.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Were lowering the average ie. Obviously you participate.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That was the youngster on the trip. That made me
feel good.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
They like a juvenile love.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Being the young one.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Gosh, since were we When do we last catch up?
It's been a little while, But times have changed, though,
haven't we. We've got we've got a lot of uns.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Actually. One of the things we wanted to kick off with,
which is, you know that just.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
The whole global economy, and we were trying to try
to avoid the politics because that doesn't leave it lead me.
We're happy, but I don't think it's contentious that what's
going on with the leadership and the States.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
With tariffs on again, off again.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Terrible tea. There's a couple of terrible ta where.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's going terrible tea is the tariffs and and Trump
has but you know, he seems like he's not going
to put them on so heavily on Canada. But they're like, well, no, no,
and still you until you get rid of them back
where they were. We're leaving the one our retaliatory ones on.
There's going to be a battle with the with China.
Maybe they don't know what's happening there in Mexico. Are
(04:00):
tariffs are coming our way? It feels that and the
dal Jones didn't didn't like it very much. Then that
there Jones goes, we don't mind it so much, and
then all of a sudden, no, no, we don't like it.
We're living in tumultuous times. It does become a little
bit problematic for people investing in.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
A way at all.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You need a tough stomach around these times. Certainly, anybody
who's checked their kV server balance will be quite shocked,
especially if there a growth fund don't check them. I'm
telling you just I.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Should check it. While while I will.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Check this, particularly those around growth oriented funds, because those
are the stocks that are really getting hammered. So there's, yeah,
there's a tilta world going on. But you know, I'm
kind of if you're if you're like most kV servers,
you're invested for the long term. Just put your seat
belt on and buckle up.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Funny thing was I was thinking, because I'm optimistic that
I'm going to live forever and keep on saving for
my KI saver forever, I was thinking of switching to
a growth fund, and I just got a bit lazy
and didn't do it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Just worked out well for me, I guess not alone.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Apathy is agreed enemy of most people.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's my strengths this time, because if I'd shoved it
in a growth fund, I probably would have how much
What have we seen that's happened to the average key
we saver funds?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Well, again, it depends what fund you're in. Certainly, I
just did a little peek at some of my investments
just before coming on the show, and it was an
OUCH moment. So just you know, close that down and
thinking of the future because with Trump in church, you
never know what the future halts.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
It's yeah, what.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Actually there is something to do with that as well,
in terms of if you are attaching your well being
to the well being of your investments, it would be
a real rollercoaster ride isn't it. And I find that
when I'm producing concerts and there's a lot on the line,
you can't hinge your happiness to the ultimate result. You've
just got to look out the window and think, well,
(05:53):
the sun is shining, I'm alive and I'm breathing, and
life's good.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Oh yes, I mean there's a lot to be said
for taking deep brass and staying calm and carrying on,
which you have to and buy and large. Again, most
investors are invested for the long term, particularly those who
are in kybceiver, so you kind of have to try
to look past this. The damage is done now, of course,
what happened We saw this with COVID. A lot of people,
you know, hit the panic button. They switched out of
(06:18):
and if you know, if some people are in growth
phones for the right reasons, some not because they can't
handle the volatility, and then they do erratic things. They
switch into conservative type phones, and then you know, things
turn around because tomorrow is a new day and the
stocks rally, and then they want to switch back in
and it costs some more money. So there's a well
(06:40):
tested mantra in the investment world. A but you I
sort of helt time the markets. It's time in the
market that counts.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I sort of thought we had learned that lesson, haven't we,
But it seemed the same headlines were cropping up because
I mean, I guess I do host a show called
smart money, and like to think I might have learned
one or two lessons, because otherwise that made me pretty stupid. Ah,
that'd be too harsh on myself. Ton But but the
one lesson, one of the lessons is that when if
(07:08):
the top times hit there's some sort of bad news
in the market starts, you know, slumps, you're too late
to make that change if you're in, especially if you
better to not grin and bear it. But unless you
unless you've got some sort of I mean, I don't know,
if a stop marketed a genuine crash with as a point,
it's like, well, accept that loss, but get out.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But of course, you know you got to hold the course.
I think for people for whom it's most painful, particularly
if it's a prolonged downturn, are those when we're talking
about KIV saver, those who are invested for the purposes
of a first home, and you know they were probably
rubbing their hands in gleasing how much money they could
expect to be taking out, and then if they were
(07:49):
in a growth fund for example, or high growth fund,
and now it's dropped considerably and they'll be wincing that
their home deposit is less than it should have been.
And likewise, people at the other end of the scale,
closer to retirement, and I think we're talking about that
leader in the show what you should be doing with
your Kii shaver once you reach that accumulation stage. You know,
(08:10):
they when there's an immediate need for that money and
you're looking at your current balance that's gone down, you know,
twenty or thirty percent. It's it's painful, right, but there's
not too many people who are have a need to
draw on that money immediately, so you have to hope
that things will, you know, the be a course correction
and things will improve over time. Unfortunately, what's added to
(08:31):
the injury here is that the stock work was quite
overheated anyhow, particularly in the equity space. So in addition
to being at you know, higher than fair value, we've
got you know, this crazy volatility and geopolitical instability happening
out there, so you know, it's it's very nauseating for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
But what is the I mean, if there are, of course,
out of difficult times and uncertainty, there are people who
who are canny who can actually make a killing as well.
Because they look at the slump that frightens everyone away,
a lot of people will jump in and use I mean,
that's the people who are looking to maybe catch the bounce.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
That's right, But that's a dangerous game to plan.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Really, it is a dangerous game, and I would not
recommend that for people who don't know what they're doing.
Because the last time we had saw this kind of
terriff threat upon us, it was back in the twenties
and the United States tried this on and whilst it
had the benefit of short term protectionism, the longer term
fact is it it is directly attributed to the depression. Okay,
(09:39):
and so if you're thinking that you're going to cash
in double down and then things go down for a
longer period of time, well you know you'll be worse.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
L for it.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Let's delve under the history Lisson there.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I wasn't expecting you to bring up the twenties, but
so I'm not that old. Well that's that's partly why
but so what I mean, I don't know what the
situation with tariff says because it seems to change to
the president's women. He hates the dow Jones going down.
That's when can we know about him. That's consistent. He
(10:11):
doesn't like seeing stock losses. So that's the punishment for
a policy he might respond to. So put it in
a historical context in terms of, you know, when when
the world was in a trade war with itself? Do
we have to go back that far back?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well that you know, that's probably the moment in history
that teaches us the most. Yeah, because it was akin
to the level of tariffs that we're seeing now, or
it probably even less so. And you know, it's never
one thing that you know, sets off, as you know,
the avalanche, but it certainly contributed to it back then
in nineteen twenty two and then nineteen thirty and then boom,
(10:48):
things blew up and we were in, you know, for
a very protracted period of financial doom and gloom. And well,
you know when we saw it again in twenty eighteen
during President Trump's first reign, when he threatened China with tariffs,
and that respond you know, he reacted with retivalutory terror
or the China did, and then consumer goods went up
(11:08):
for the poor American citizens. So it's very volatile, and
I think for an individual investor, you know, they always
say diversity is the best form of protection, so you know,
instead of trying to time the market or pick certain
stocks that you think are going to go up and down,
you know you're best off to have a range of
different assets, across different asset classes, across different countries. And again,
(11:31):
if you're a Kiwi siver, most of those funds are
well diversifised, most of them.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I think I heard some comments as well around the
whole implementing tariffs that what Trump wants to achieve with
the tariffs is not as straightforward as he might have
even if he was relying on the lessons of the past,
because we are so much more interconnected. Economies are so
much more intertwined with each other, and it's not as
(11:58):
clean cut to say, and I think.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
He found that out with Canada.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It's like, for instance, looking for the he's now created
the exceptions for the automotive industry because there's goods that
go back and forth and metals and things and of
course everything's intertwined.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
There's not.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It's not as simple as he might have thought.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Is that a fact?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And you know Canada is not as big as the
US by population, but certainly you know we've got a
decent population and economic growth. And what you've seen now
there is Canada, all the provinces rallying together like they've
never seen and so there could be more intertrade between
you know, provinces. And also you bet your bottom dollar
(12:38):
they are exploring other trade of partners. The US and
Canada are the largest trade partner in the world. Canada
maybe was a bit too reliant on that. We'll be
looking forward.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So we've heard, I mean, we haven't quite delved into
the topic we were going to, but it's an interesting
conversation because we haven't. I did notice when I heard
Todd McLay I think, being interviewed by Mike Hosking, that
he was talking about the opportunities that might they're actually
I mean maybe he was putting a gloss on it
as well, well, nobody wants tariffs and we don't want
tariffs and nobody does, but he was saying that there
(13:10):
are there may actually be other opportunities that open up
for US to divert our trade because countries that are
going to be hit by the same tariffs might decide
that they want to buy from US rather than the
States or things like that. It's that it was fascinating
watching everything and from a from on with a C
plus and economics stage one.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, trading relationships could change the very nature of them
and people who were well, I mean, look at Russian
and the US right, So the nature is changing. I
think comra heads will ultimately prevail, but I think now
people are reassessing their partnerships, et cetera. So, but getting
back to the investor, because it can all be very
(13:52):
dizzying to be watching this show and waking up of
themorrow morning. You thought you were caught up in the
news and it's all changed overnight again. You know, be invested.
Understand what fund I guess you're invested in, and this
applies to KIV savers are those who are invested outside
a kvsaver, who have perhaps a managed fund portfolio. Understand
your time frame for investing, because again most people are
(14:17):
invested over a longer term. If your time frame was
shorter and you were in the wrong type of assets,
you know, maybe ought to reconsider, but just use this
as an opportunity for a bit of a review. Don't
lose your head and panic. There's some great tools on
sordi dot org. We've discussed this many times, to do
a risk profile, to see what fund your properly should
(14:40):
be in for your age and for your for your goals.
And you know, I know it sounds all very boring,
but I think when you have that knowledge behind you,
then you can again don't check your kbsaver balance this
week and just keep on, you know, keep on plugging away.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
This is just a guess, but we live in you know,
the giga sort of economy with technology fingertips within a nanoseconds.
So the stock market falls, boomit goes. Does that mean
I have a sense that maybe in you go back
decades that there felt there was a different response you
(15:19):
could give because things moved.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A bit slow.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Whereas these days, if there's been a slump, don't that
whatever happens, it's been priced in. You're not going to
be able to make a decision that defeats what's just happened, you.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's I was thinking, as the answer would be when
things are looking tough by gold. But if things are
looking tough, the gold price has already changed. It's already
sort of prices that in I mean, or are their
commodities where you go, well, actually, we're in a very
unstable environment. This class of assets is where you should
be sticking your money.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Even professionals will have difficulty knowing what's ahead during what's
going on right now. So again I think best of bases.
Stick to your knitting.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
And if you're knitting is not financed, then harve.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
A chart with your I mean, you'll find that. Again.
Most fund managers are putting out notices with you know
again advice to keep a commer had and you know,
if you're if you're a d trader for example, well
hopefully you've gotten gotten into that with you know, a
great level of confidence and knowledge yourself to know that
you know you can take those losses just as much
(16:26):
as you can take those gains. But you know, the
vast majority of people will you know, be having fund managers?
Can we say were providers again, just make sure you're
in the right fund for your fund appetiting.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
We'd love to we'd love to have your calls. We
are in uncertain times.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
We're not going to talk about whether you like Trump
or not, but we are in uncertain times, and I
don't think that is beyond I don't think it's beyond
arguing in a way arguable. But where do you put
your money? What do you do with your finances? And
what's the approach you take when you feel things are
a little bit uncertain or do you sort of just
go well, I didn't see it coming, it's happened. There's
probably not much I can do. I just leave the
(17:04):
money where it is. I'd love your cause if you've
got to want to give us the benefit of your advice.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
If you've got a question from Amanda Morale, who is
our guest in studio today, finance specialist and author, it
is well. The number is eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
The text is nine two nine two in the time
is twenty four past five. Yes, we're talking in these
uncertain times. Where do you stick your money? What can
you do to make sure make your finances feel a
(17:32):
little bit less susceptible to the volatile influences of the times.
Let's take some calls. We were with Amanda Morrale, financial
author and specialist Andrew Good afternoon, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Good afternoon. Hey Andrew, Amanda, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Lovely day here in Willington.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
That's good to hear. Good to know.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
What would you like to share with us, Andrew?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Well, I think I guess, Well, there's probably multiple questions,
but I just can't ask them all. But one of
the things that I realized some time ago while I
was working. So I'm retired now fifty two, and I
used to work for a bank in America called JP
(18:27):
Morgan Chase, and we used to sell a lot of
index funds. I think even Barclay's had a reis that
they sold to black Rock. But nonetheless, what they do
is they just you know, it's a diverse fight and
(18:48):
investment and they have a very low commission rate on them.
But I don't know what happens here in New Zealand
through the KIWI say of funds do they actually have
because I have a hey, we say the funds. Yeah, absolutely,
(19:08):
they're working a lot. But do they know I'll guess
my question here is are they managed funds or are
they r E I t LL no, no, no, that's
a real estate investment trust.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah. No, we've got a combination. Yeah, so we've got
there's a range of different funds offered, and they're differently
managed depending on whether your manager is passive or active.
But Smart Shairs, for example, sells several ETFs. Some fund
managers have a strategy that blends both. For example, Simplicity
(19:49):
is an index provider with very very low fees and
Kernel Wealth as well index fund provider. They're more of
a pure index fund play. And there's a few others
there that some of you used to use black Rock
I think a sp for d X fund selection. So
thank you for raising that point. Because the key with
index funds is that typically or ETFs as well, they're
(20:13):
a little bit differently, is that you get the benefit
of a lower fee and in a long term situation
over time, which is typically keep you saver, that the
impact of those lower fees compounded over time and your
fund is generating market returns in theory that should see
you quite well through to the future. So they were
(20:34):
extremely popular about ten years ago to the barefoot investor.
There's a lot of evangelists for index funds out there
for that reason. So Yeah, very good option, and they
do certainly exist in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Are you an evangelist for the index funds, Andrew or
where are you putting your money these days?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I don't trust banks. It complete because there so, you know,
so weird did the phase come from on? Because when
do you.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Put your money? When you put your money?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
They used the banks as market access to creating an
et y, So then it's multiple layers of commission going
through the system. And that's just sort of like, I'm
not I'm not aliy with it. So when you think
about an et year charge are very low. But the
(21:33):
charge from you know, from you know, the source of
the water has probably been charged about five times. But
they are still good, you know, they like you're not
going to in the world or try and fight, you know,
find every government along the way.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, no, they're I'm glad you phoned and pointed that out.
And I would say to any listener who's interested in
learning more and explaining exploring the difference between the different
fund providers and the different types of funds out there,
money hub dot co and Zed basically explores them all
and so there's some great information there and smart investor
(22:16):
is a great place for comparing fees and the different
Kisiver products and none Kisiver products out there, all on
the basis of fees and returns as well, because that's
the other part of the equation over time. Who buys
gold these days, well, apparently a lot of people are
because they're worried there's going to be another war.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
So is it because.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Currently it's a Differensive's.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Attractive, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But if I bought gold, I'd actually want the gold bars.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
I'd want to have them. Well, I wouldn't say my sock.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Draw You ever felt one? They're quite heavy.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
I have.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I did know someone who actually bought gold physically and
had it and and showed me his gold bars, and
I held one. It was wasn't a gold bar like
in the in the James Bond film.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think You've been Captured by James Bond.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
It was goldfinger. Yes, he's the man with the Martis Touch.
Now it's sort of like the size of a of
a large cell phone.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It would still be quite heavy and.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It's quite satisfying to hold it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
There's some security in that, and that's why it's considered
a defensive you know, asset. However, you know, if you're
buying physical gold, you have these issues of storage. What
happens if you you know, you're talking about it too
much widely on the airwaves, and next minute you're robbed.
Somebody's got your gold bars.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So I don't have gold by the way, people I
work on overnight talk, I'm not sitting on gold bars.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
But you can buy into funds that have exposure to gold,
so that might be a safer option if you're thinking
the World War threads around the corner there too.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Oh gosh, well anyway, fingers crossed, I john hello, oh.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Hello, the other man said I I as far as
a managed fun I would have thought thanked the safest
for a managed fun because at the banks, if they
managed fund collapsed, I'm sure the bank would still are that.
I wouldn't say the private people would banks have got money.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, the thing, if you're talking, thank you for your call,
you've raised a good point. If you're talking about Kiwi Saver,
they're all have a supervisor. So in theory you're you
should be as safe with an independent as you are
with the bank because of that layer of supervision. There's
no other product in New Zealand that's regulated and supervised
(24:36):
and monitored quite as much as Kiwi Saver, so that
that risk issue is less so.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But if somebody invests, I think there's something that John
said that he said if you if you invest in
with a particular fund and it collapses, the bank would
stand by. But I'm that's a bit of a loaded
question because if you invest in a particular fund that
as the bank's investment fails, then I'm not sure the
bank bank has to say.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I think he's talking about government guarantees and that applies
equally to term deposits and those are capped as well.
Haven't looked into this recently, but I thought the cap
is up to one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's funny, you know, just I don't want to get
distracted by gold because it sort of feels like the
sort of I don't know, lighter conversation away because everyone
loves talking about God.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
But somebody.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I have had quite a few people from more than
one place say that if they want it, we're going
to buy gold. They would make sure they bought it
so they could physically hold it, because they were very cynical.
And I've had more than one person that said this.
They're very cynical about the idea that you buy a
share in gold that somehow you have a certificate and
someone has it and just.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
I don't know, if you bought gold, would you want
the actual.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Would you want the Well, I guess it's the same
feeling you would have having a vault full of dollars,
right and again during COVID and I'm not joking a
lot of people, you know, during downtimes and stable times,
people get very fearful. I know one fell who went
immediately to the bank and got out a whole whack
of cash because of this concern about you know, the
(26:10):
panic and what if scenarios. Equally, you know a lot
of crypto fans out there thinking that that might be
a safer bet if you know, the economy blows up
and they it all turned to digital currencies or cryptocurrencies.
So people are quite you know, understandably scared during times
(26:31):
of uncertainty, and that's why people might feel that having
pockets full of gold or gold coins that you can
buy might offer them some sort of security. But again,
I think you really do have to take a deep
breath here, look at your overall position. Again, I can't
emphasize enough. I mean, are you in the right fund
(26:52):
for your fund profile? Like, if you don't like taking
risks and you're exposed to a very aggressive type fund
because you were just chasing the high returns of yesteryear,
you never should have been there to begin with. And
there's certain person investor profiles and quizzes you can take
that'll kind of get you steer you into the right
one if you do the right things. And this is
(27:13):
Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world.
You know, just be a regular investor, carry on investing,
make regular contributions over time. That way you'll catch the ups.
You know, you'll ride through the downtimes, but over the
long course, not paying too much in fees, et cetera.
To the point of the last two callers, that you'll
do okay by the time you need that money at retirement.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
It's hard to argue with Warren Buffett in a way,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Because I'm not going to argue with that, are you.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
He doesn't like he doesn't like tariffs much either, does.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
A Okay, it's a very no nonsense kind of guy,
you know, And yeah, he's just like Yoda. He's very wise.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
We're going to take some more calls in just a moment.
It's twenty two minutes to six. Where do you put
your money when times get tough?
Speaker 6 (27:59):
We also we did forward sell.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
This will touch on when you should resist that temptation
to touch your KEII saver to buy that first home
or to I don't know, maybe even when it's matured
and it's time to take it out, should you just
leave it in there? Well, might touch on that before
we wrap things up, because time does fly when you're
having fun. It's twenty two minutes to sex News Talks.
He'd be that's welcome back to smart Money. This is
(28:37):
the weekend collect where they put your money in tricky times?
Should I say it's a bit unstable. We don't know
if tariffs are on or off. We don't know how
the world's going and how it's going to Where would
you put your money? But if you've got any questions
for Amanda Morele, who's a finance specialist and author who
is with us in the.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Studio, then give us a call. By the way, interesting,
we were talking about.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The tariffs, and many people will know Amanda because probably
your pet peever is a Canadian is when people can't
work out what you're acts. But it's worth mentioning that
opened the boot and have a good one. E.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Do I cover all those cliches?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
No, No, I just want people to know that you
were America.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you for I'm wearing my maple leaft today.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Actually, by the way, somebody did remind us, just as
a point of view of maybe challenging hypocrisy of Canada
was actually I've forgotten about this about Canada's conduct regarding
our dairy trade. Remember, there was some agreement that they
failed to one, and we've took them to the w WTO,
which ruled.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
In our favor.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
But Canada, Canada didn't behave very well and then bought
the facts.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There was some protectionism taking place towards their dairy farmers.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
That's the one so Steve's written in New Zealand as
a trade agreement with Canada grouting dairy. They've failed it
to honor it, even after the WTO ruled in our favor.
They're the last people you should mean about tariffs. There
is a slight carmic point to that point, isn't there
is there?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is a bit of a sledgehammer, I would
say to a little mosquito bait. But you know, f
I take your point.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Hanging on a second, I'm just trying to get a
view because the sun is streaming into a studio with
reflections everywhere. Oh, this is an interesting one from muzz.
I know it's completely a moral tom, but I've been
looking at weapon making companies around the world with all
the increase in defense spending by government's because of Trump,
I just throw that and there is an interesting text.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
No, and he's not wrong to think that because and
look at all the defensive spending that's been announced recently
in Germany, Cannadable, yeaping its defense spending, Australia, et cetera.
So I it's within the key we saver space. Again.
You know, we've got.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
A little do that, do we?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
There has been a lot of exclusions made on defensive spending.
But you know, outside of that, I suspect and I'm
not making an ethical judgment on any of that that
that might see you through, you know if you're a
stock picker. But you know, I let's hope.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
That managed funds that specially are they managed funds at specialist.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Sinstocks what they're called sinstocks real so things like and
mostly they've been purged from a lot of qv savers.
We're talking alcohol, weapons makers, you know, gambling, the pornography industry,
those kind of things. You know, they're not nice for humanity,
but you know, some of them have made quite a
(31:32):
bit of money. So you know, you probably could buy
an ETF on sinstocks. I'm pretty sure that exists, and
see how you go there. But you know, do you
They had.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
An interesting point. I mean, we have discussed the morality
of investing. We've touched on this a few weeks ago.
But it's a funny one because you could listen tobacco, yes, sinstock, porno,
since stock. We can think of plenty of things that
are sinstocks. But I think and weapons manufacturing sounds inherently
a moral but of course immoral, but because but the
(32:06):
fact is as well that democracies who want to defend themselves,
it's a moral act to defend yourself, and you need
to have those sort of weapons to defend yourself.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
So I sort of have.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
This feeling that they're not as obviously am moral because
their affect their effective life.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I read one thing that the Dalai Lama is attributed
as saying, and again you'd have to run it through
the fact checking, the you know, because of what happened
to his home country. But the best offense was a
good defense, and somebody had asked him about, you know,
if they'd been more equipped to defend their nation. Is
that wrong? So I'm not again the offense. Oh yeah,
(32:46):
it's a good defense.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
That sounds like a baseball thing. Originally.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You can see why it's a deterrent, which is why
everybody's scared of the US. Okay, yeah, but anyhow, I'm
not making a call on that, and I really hope
things sort themselves out sooner than later. With the world, well,
I don't know, it's an unstable place.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
It is, it does. Isn't funny?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We are living in these times which I always imagined
when you would look back to other times in the
world where we've felt this great termoil that I always
felt we had this smug sort of way of looking
back and going, oh, of course, you know, there were
some really terrible decisions made and some terrible people put
in these positions and things, and I thought, of course,
we'll never get there again, because Western democracy is very
(33:26):
smart and all that sort of thing, and all of
a sudden we see them ourselves in this potentially very
tumultuous time. And let's not get disastrous about it, but
we are in tumultuous times. Okay, here's a simple question
away from the answer manufacturer, I'm at a conservative fund.
I'll be sixty five in eleven months. Should I be worried?
(33:51):
Intend to pay off mortgage which will be half my key?
We savor, thanks, hmm, because I would almost jump in
before you and say, if you're in a conservative fund,
probably not such a concern.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
But anyway, again, everybody is suchuation is different, and you know,
you've got this longevity question that faces most people you
know at sixty five, which is like if keep Saver
or another managed fund is basically all you've got to
last plus New Zealand super you're going to have to
(34:23):
manage that money very closely or carefully rather over the years.
Say you're projected to live to the age of average
age if we were just discussing it before the show
for men around eighty, then you need that money to last.
So you know, these are the kind of questions that
will be you know, keeping people like the gentleman who
(34:44):
wrote in awake at night, because they'll be wondering, you
know how much you're going to have. So fortunately there's
some good tools for doing forecasting these days on something
called a safe withdrawal rate. So even if he does
I don't know the size of his balance there, but
if he does withdraw half and has his debt free
and he's got his New Zealand, super what you're left
(35:06):
with in that particular fund, if you remain invested and
it makes the average return it keeps taking away, you'll
be able to calculate from that how much you can
get on a weekly basis, factoring in inflation, and you
know you might need to up it, or you reduce
the amount that you're planning on paying down on the mortgage,
or you might be in a safe place. So this
(35:28):
there's in great tools to give you some peace of
mind about how much you could expect to get within
certain parameters. So that may give them.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I think the conservative fund too, when you tie that
into we're living in uncertain times, a conservative fund, if
you unless you've taken your money out and locked in
the loss and stuck at a conserve fund. But if
this person's been a conservative fund for a few years,
there's no cause for.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
Real alarm on their part.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Is there with their investment compared to if you were
in a growth fund.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I get well they would have in relative terms, they
should have lost less in recent months, but you know,
the bond market has been doing a lot of wonky
things too recently, so it's all over the show. This
is why again I encourage people to look at their
Kiwi saver, their last annual member statement. They use projections
about what you can long term averages, what you could
(36:21):
reasonably expect to get in terms of a return for
those different fund types. And I think with a growth fund,
you might think they've done twenty two percent in the
last year, but the projection that they use in the
in the long term figures is more around five percent mark.
So they take into account these great moments, you know,
(36:44):
blackswan events, they call them, you know GFC type events,
and smooth them out over time using historical data and
say no, this is what you should plan for and
if you've got another fifteen twenty five years to be
invested in, it's going to return that average amount potentially
then you can kind of figure out, you know, with
your current spending or future spending, how much you we
(37:06):
left with at the end of the day. So fortunately
for this person, they've got the New Zealand super which
will be adding to their account, so they can rely
on that. Yeah, probably you know until their their their
end days and you know, if they've got other private savings,
you pile that into If you're not, if your mortgage free,
you know, well it depends on your lifestyle too.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, actually being being able to path your mortgage. This
person says half of their key, we say, we'll go.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
Pay off the mortgage.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
But gosh, it makes a huge difference just getting rid
of that regular debt you have to service, isn't.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
That absolutely Especially and we don't know what's going on
with interest rates and whilst they've been going down, who
knows whether they're going to have to go back up
happening what's going on worldwide, So yeah, not having debt
is always a very sweet position to be sitting in,
and it helps you to kind of plan going forward
a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Right, we need to take a quick moment, we'll be
back in just to take where Amanda Morale. This is
smart money. You can give us a call. We much
and have time to squeeze a quick cover.
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
It is eight and a half minutes to six. Yes,
welcome back. Gosh, time flies and hardly anytime left with
Amanda Morale, financial finance author and specialist. But we did
say we're going to talk about well, we've didn't touch
on a couple of key we say with things, we'll
just have to leave it to the issue of decumulation,
that time when you have reached the age where you
can take it out, and what you should do with that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, so we touched on this with your last person
who you emailed inn is what should you do with
your money when you can actually tap it? Because you
count until sixty five, and so some people might have
the idea that they're going to take the lot out
and you know, just blow it all in a nice
holiday and a new car, etc. Hopefully you've got more
invested than just those little rewards. So typically speaking, depending
(38:51):
on your situation, you would likely want it remain invested
because of you know, the prospect of living much longer
than the retirement age of sixty five, in which case
you want to be continuing to generate decent returns and
understand what a safe withdrawal rate is for you. To
the point at which your money will old.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
You can always take it out.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
So would you leave in the KB Saber fund or
would you look for another managed fund? I guess you've
just got a bit more choice to expect.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
They're much the same really, Again, the things that you
want to look for are decent long term returns, low fees. Yeah,
and a group of people who you trust to manage
your money, you know well in line with your values.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
That's something I think we might have a chat about
on another time when we get you on, because I
think that there's lots so many funds, but actually working
out which organization you want to trust your money in
because you don't you don't get to go into the
room and sit down with the investors and look them
can be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah. Mary Holmes written some wonderful books on how to
choose KB server provider and fund tape, et cetera.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Good stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Hey, thanks, Gosh, I don't know where the time anyway,
Thanks so much for coming on. If you've missed any
of the show, go and check out a pod cast,
and we'll look forward to your company again the same
time next weekend. Sunday It's six is next. Thanks to
my producer tire Robits. Have a great rest of you Sunday,
Get you so.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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