December 8, 2024 • 40 mins
Shortly after the new gang patch laws came into effect, police were seen in leaked pictures wearing confiscated patched vests.
Leading into the silly season, what should you hold back on posting publicly that your management may see?
Employment expert Max Whitehead joins with more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I want a lot for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That is just one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I don't care about the present, love the Christmas tree.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I just watch you for my own You could e
ONEO make my own wish come for Christmas? It excuse me?
(00:59):
Tell me bad happy ah.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, you're thinking you're going to get Mariah cries whatever.
I can't remember what the song was now, but anyway,
we're playing Happy Birthday just because welcome back to the
Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge and this is this is
smart Money, and my guest is well, he's been for
high tea today across the road at a hotel because
he's celebrating his birthday. So we thought we'd play a
(01:29):
little bit of Stevie Wonder to say happy Birthday.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
To imagine cheering it with a big fellow.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I mean, I haven't got your name out yet. It's
Max Whitehead. No you may talk.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, look at that. Imagine me sharing your birthday with
a big fellow. And look you look so romantic looking
me in the eyes of that first bit, where you
know I just want to spend Christmas with you and
then next week all I want for the rombi stuff.
So good old week.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So happy birthday, happy fifty nine again.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Thank you Tim, thank you, Tyra, thank you very good.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Hey, nice to have you on the studio.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Max.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How you doing very good? Very good? Wow, I'm not
much happier.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Now of course, Well what because of the high team.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
The big fuss? No no, no, no no.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
T sounds so healthy, isn't I didn't realize it probably
starts off with the glass of shamps, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It normally does. But my darling, she looked after that
for me.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Excellent. Good to see. Anyway, Hey, look we're going to
there's a bunch of things to talk about in the
show this afternoon. But by the way, Max Whitehead, as
you will know, if you've listened as an employment relations practitioner,
and if you have any particular questions about your employment situation,
whether it be as an employee or as an employer,
(02:32):
then you can give Max a call on eight hundred
eighty ten eighty and you can run your questions by him.
There are a couple of things we want to touch on.
One of them is actually just about how much you
should be able to post on your social media without
it being any of your boss's business. And we'll dig
into that in just a sect. But I also wanted
to throw out there just a slightly more fun seasonal
(02:55):
question around the secret center in the workplace. And look,
we have a secret Sandy here, and I'm playing it
safe with my secret center. But I imagine sometimes there
are secret center gifts which are not really appropriate in
the workplace, such as the tesco's manager who gave a
female colleague work. It's five o'clock in the afternoon on
(03:16):
a Sunday, So how do I say he gave her
something to enjoy herself with? And I think we got
it and was sacked for gross misconduct after it was
decided he'd abused his position of trust. There were a
couple of things about the story. I thought that secret
Center was secret center, and I guess that the advice
you'd be is don't trust it as secret. We use
(03:37):
actually our one. We use a website that the guy
who organizes it uses a website which is called draw Names,
And so no one apparently knows. I don't think anyone
knows who, and everyone will know what your gift will be,
what well it's appropriate with your character.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It'll be exactly you know as it is. There'll be tim,
There'll be tim.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
No, no, no, you won't work this one out. But anyway,
I mean how careful. I guess with anything in the workplace,
you just have to operate as if you're always under scrutiny,
don't you? Is that the rule probably with secret sanders?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well yeah, and of course, like back in the old
days that you just wear that and go ah, very
nice and put in the bin when you get home.
But it will or not, it depends. But today no,
people are a bit more more sensitive and can be
offended very easily. So I mean, if you're an older
gentleman or somebody, you got to take a lot more care.
(04:29):
And that is reckless. And for a senior manager, I
would say, yeah, that's poor taste. And if it is
a senior manager, oh what.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
To be honest, I googled I thought there has to
be a story about an appropriate secret center gifts, and
I pretty much gurgled it. But they actually went too
many stories because I think most people just get into
the Christmas spirit. How much would you spend how much
do you think you'd spend on a secret center?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, the ones I got involved with. It's very minor,
like twenty bucks or something like that. I actually one
time I had a painting at home I didn't like,
so I wrapped that up and took it in and
everyone so impressed. Oh wow, look you.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Did it look like an impressive artwork? Does it like it?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It was a fire scene or something. It was pretty awful.
But I mean somebody actually loved it, and they did
bidding afterwards, and she bought it for a fortune.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Really what sort of fortune?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, I can't recall now. Maybe oh, they paid probably
sixty bucks for it or something, or one hundred bucks.
I can't recall what it was. But that was a
secret sand I put it in. But then they somebody
else wanted it, and you go, I think that's a
good idea that if you've got a gift you didn't
really want. Like somebody close to me just got a
bottle open a recently pretty flash one and she's, oh god,
I didn't want that.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
There was actually quite a knack to a secret sander,
because I mean, in terms of giving people something, Luckily,
the workplace one we've got here you can put in.
And I've been a bit of a Grinch. But by
the way, I've hardly even done it, but I thought
I've got to get into the spirit this year and
do it. But they do have a thing where you
can say roughly what your interests.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So what did you buy? You can tell us. We
won't tell anyone there no one listening.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
No, there's no way I'm telling you I haven't bought
it yet. Anyway, come on to I was and talked
about something off here afterwards, but no one. But anyway,
if you want, you want to have a chat about
secret soundersn't actually just simple questions in the workplace about
how bring them on because we've got a minimum, a
minimum one in our workplace. That's you've got to spend
(06:18):
minimum twenty bucks. Because I think what's happened is people
just get something without any thought. And I think if
you're in your secret sounding you've got to make an
effort find a little bit about this about it. The
person who is who you're you know you're buying for,
And that's the whole spirit.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Bother, do you know who you're buying for?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Well, you've got to know who you're buying for.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well not always, no, it depends on how it runs.
You know, sometimes it's a lot of and you just
get well you do being good.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Oh no, it goes into a name and you've given
a name. They don't know who you are, but you
obviously know who they are because you and you learn
what their interests are and then you buy accordingly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Like I kind of like it. It's good spirit. It
makes people laugh a lot and whatever. But yeah, putting
a toy like that to please somebody, I think probably
going a bit too fun probably thought it was funny.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah exactly. I actually, actually there are some good gift
shops around which, you know, the sort of upmarket sort
of gift shops that have got the sort of things
that no, no, just really well thought out lovely gifts. And
the shop that I'm going to that I've support for choice,
So there we go.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Anyway, Just did you buy a tree?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
No plant?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What does it come on?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Guess what? No one switched your mic off? That'll get
you to.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
He's got the power. He's got the power.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Hey. But on that side of the sort of social
side of life, social.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
Media and and your boss and in your employment situation,
how much of your personal social media, if any, is
the business of your.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Employer well, if you're putting on social media, you're going public,
and so your employers are entitled to have a look
at it. But if you're talking about work, that's the
no no. So I mean, you can talk about work
in a positive fashion, but if you say something negative
then you're you're bringing the business into disrepute and you're
in big trouble. And it's it's been going on for
(08:04):
a bit, ten fifteen years. Employees get in big trouble
for social media. What if they're saying something that's true irrespective,
it's just bringing the company into disrepute. I mean quite
often in employment agreements, quite often the employer will say,
you know, no public comments about the business and are
not allowed, and you're welcome to tell people where you work,
(08:25):
but that's really it finishes at that point in time.
So it's bringing the employer into disrepute. Those are the
key words that you work buying.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
What about your own I guess there are certain Obviously,
if you've got an Instagram page and it's just you know,
it's you don't allow anyone to follow you by request
that you're probably reasonably safe on that. But when it
comes to public social media, is there a level where
it doesn't matter. It's not about your employee or your employer,
(08:53):
but your behavior or something you've shown on social media
goes a bit beyond the pale. Is there a point
where the employer can say, well, hang on a minute,
you know, we're not happy that you people know that
you work for our company and or whatever, or I know,
they just worry that you are exhibiting a standard of behavior.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Let's say, well, look, look look at someone like yourself,
your high profile individual, who would be if there was
any underward things said by you, you were acting like
a bit of a Dell online, then yeah, they are
entitled to say your brand goes with our brand and
it's associated.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Stop it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Or in fact, I would warn you first. I wouldn't
actually go straight into discipline and dismissal, but if you
started talking about the company and negatively, then it would
be probably dismissal.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Have there been cases where people have got in trouble
for simply, you know, maybe shown photos of them maybe
being overly inebriated and noxious or anti social or something
which has got them in trouble with their employer per se,
It would depend on their job description.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It would because imagine, I'll look, what was it, a
high high profile person again, a high profile organization and
he got into road rage of an individual and actually
ended up running them over.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh well, that's kind of illegal anyway, It's.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Kind of there's nothing to do with work. And he
was fired because of his high profile and he was
associated with the workplace, and with that they said, sorry,
we can't have you an our employed. People need to
trust you and to know that you can lose it
like that and actually get out of control is not acceptable.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
And there would be certain occupations I guess where it
would be more important that you maintain a cleaner image
on social media. I guess the one that immediately comes
to mind is if you work for a high profile
law firm or something or PR company and where your
clients have to trust you and they expect you, know,
if you're working for a charging five hundred bucks an
hour for your law firm, for your advice and in
(10:57):
your private time, people see you sort of chundering on
the foot path.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Christmas A good subject because that has been one of
the high profile law firms in New Zealand about four
or five years ago was in big trouble, really for
that sort of thing, you know, just with the young
girls in the workplace. Oh oh yeah, yeah right, So
when yeah, it was appropriate, then that sort of discipline
action followed that through particularly was senior managers. Now people
(11:21):
expect better behavior from you, So you got more scrutiny.
The higher level you go up, the more the more
you're vulnerable in terms of were actually toppling down.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Actually, the story that led us to discussing this initially,
by the way, you've got any questions from Max, give
us call on one hundred and eighty ten eighty, was
actually motivated by that photo. Remember after the new big
gang patch laws came in and then there was a
photo police were seeing in leaked pictures where they were
wearing confiscated patched vests. I have to be honest with you,
I thought that was kind of funny that within the
police station that they might have been look and as
(11:54):
a joke sort of thing. Oh, unfortunately, the camera came out.
No no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And look depending i'd say, his audience right in front
of him. There he was parading around, probably strutting about
with it on, probably appreciated it. But again, you're dead right,
it's not everyone will appreciate it, so you've got to
play to the minority. And the minority that don't like it, well, man,
you're in trouble. And that man, I take it from
the comments made, and I'm assuming here that he's quite
(12:22):
well thought of as a policeman, and I see some
empathy from the Minister towards him just just by saying, look,
I'm sure he regrets it.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah. Actually, I sort of feel bad bringing it up
because in a way, I think most people probably saw
that and thought, well, of course there's probably going to
be just for a bit of a joke, you know,
to put it on. But you just don't want that
stuff to hit the public sphere, do you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Oh, do you know what you told me? You're going
to ask me that question. So I've been doing heaps
of research. I found out what the Act said. I
went back and said, that's the limit. Well, there's an
act which enables and that's the power of the cord
and to enable patches not to be worn, I demanded them.
So my question to myself was what about you know,
(13:03):
like where a brand, your brand yourself, what would happen
like you business people buy t shirts off their brand
on it, give it to the people.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Is that is that a patch? No, no, it gets
it gets described by cabinet. Cabinet put a list of
gang band gang patches. So that's not just any old label.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It does say that, but no, no, it's quite wider
than that. It's something so it could be including it's
including all the gangs that are.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Something associated with that. Yeah, that's an interesting one, it is.
I mean, if somebody's business was associated with a gang.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean it's over the top. I think there's a
lot of leeway for the police individuals to actually make
make their own decisions on that. Because the Salvation Army
wear a brand, don't they very loudly? And look, that'd
be the last people you'd want to go on a
resk wearing wearing a patch.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah, I think that probably pretty so.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think they'd be a little bit of public uproar about, like.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
I guess on this love your calls one hundred eighty
ten to eighty. Look, we've got some other serious things
we want to get touch on as well, because there
are a few other big issues and employment law. But
we'll take the break now and if you'd like to
run past any question you've got with Max about your
employment situation, whether you're an employee or an employer, you
can give us a call on eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
(14:13):
But also what your thoughts are on you know, do
you think that whatever you post online is your business
and none of that of your employers? And I guess
it depends what sort of job you're in, doesn't it. Again,
give us a call on that on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. It's coming up to twenty one past five
news talks. He'd b yes, welcome back to the show.
Now we're talking about employment issues with Max Whitehead, and
you can give us a call if you've got some
(14:33):
questions heading into the break. Actually, here's the other one's
that cropped up to my mind was about being forced
to take annual leave in the Christmas holidays, which to
many people would grind a lot of employees gears because
some business is closed down and they just can you
be forced to take annual leave at Christmas and any
(14:55):
other time?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes? You can. Now look the minimum that the employer
a shows to give you is fourteen days notice. But
also they are totally have a shutdown period each year
up and they don't have the exercise if they don't
want to. But most, like you know, retailers, usually stay open.
So other employers like the big manufacturers and those sort
of stuff, normally have a shutdown over Christmas in the
(15:17):
new year, and you're compelled, compelled to take your holidays.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Can they shut down for the total period of your
holiday allowance? So say I, if you're eligible for a
lot of people are eligible for three or four weeks,
could can they shut down? And basically you have to
use all your leave over that shutdown period.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's worse than that tim So if you've just started
working there and you've only accumulated enough for two or
three days and your holiday, they can force you to
take two weeks. And if you haven't got enough money, honey,
you know enough? Yeah, yeah, they can say to them
right over, then you're taking leaving advance or and otherwise
you're going to owe us that much money with giving
(16:01):
you pay, or they just dock your page and you
get no pay.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You it would be forced to take what that's you'd be.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Forced to take it with no pay.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
That is actually an important area in your contract to
make sure you have that covered off, because I must
saying when I first did my sort of salary job,
I did sort of hate the idea that I had
to earn that leave. I liked to think that within
that year I could take If I had three weeks leave,
then I could take three weeks leave that year, and
I probably did.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But you know, the laws is that in the first
twelve months of employment you're not actually entitled to any
leave unless it's this this shutdown thing that I'm talking about.
But you have to accumulate all your leave first and
then you can start taking full like four weeks a year.
So after twelve months you get four weeks, but up
to that point you're not. Most employees will allow you
(16:53):
to take leave in advance.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I guess it means you're really going to appreciate your weekends,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You know, there's still a lot of people out there
don't even take leave, and they accumulate and cumulate and cumulate,
and we're hearing it all the time. They are owed
weeks and weeks of leave and because they don't take it.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
And if your employer in the end has to has
to basically will force you to take it, won't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
They And they can and they reluctant to do that
because they're like, you know, you're obviously a key person,
and you're reliable, and you know, these are the sort
of people that don't take sickly very often either, and
so yeah, they usually they're reluctant to force you. But
in the end, the accountant says them, you've got to
clean up that deficit you've got, well that that money
that you actually owe the employees.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Some people see some people see the sick leave as
almost an entitlement. I haven't taken on a sick leave yet.
It's like, and I would say, it's not there as
a right to take it, Like, Okay, you're going to
take a couple of days because you've recrued all the
sick leave. It's you've got to be sick to take sick.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Well, a lot of people today actually see it is
what you've just talked about. It's their damn right, and
I'm going to take it. Is maximize it to my benefit.
But tilly in a way, because if you get really sick,
you're better off to accumulate a whole other days. So
you can accumulate up to a maximum of twenty odd days,
which is four weeks but after that it's up to
your employee if they let you to accumulate. But the
(18:17):
employer then can at anytime tell you, hey, you've got
to take your leave, and they can compel you but
long and they give you four ding days notice.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
BlimE. Me's a lot of things to think about, because
most people think when they start a job, it's like
I've got a job. HOORAYI can't wait. You know, they
get hand a few pieces of paper history employment contractors
sign here. How many people actually would I mean for
jobs where I guess when you're taking the higher up
the tree you go, you're probably going to get more engaged.
But when you're at entry level you've got your first job,
(18:48):
people would just assume O, this is something everyone signs.
Do How many people do you think read their contract?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, here's a big hint on that one, because quite
often I review employment agreements for them for new staff.
They sell check it out the bosses. I'm allowed to
get somebody to check it out? Would you do it?
And so I send a big report actually do them
quite thoroughly, and then say well this cause no, I
wouldn't recommend that, and perhaps look out for this and
restraint of trades. I just hate them because I'd say, well,
do not don't like them either, don't sign that no, no,
(19:16):
But guess what, they're so excited about the job. They
do it anyway, And I think, why did I even bother.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I wonder whether sometimes the employer employee relationship relies on
ultimately establishing a good relationship when neither of them refer
to the contract. And most people probably think, look, I'm
just going to make sure I kick my head down,
bum up. I behaved myself and when I need what
I need, you know if I've been a good employee,
(19:42):
and likewise, I imagine hopefully that's actually how most of
employer relationships they have governed. Well, it's only when the proverbial.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hits the fan, exactly, and if you challenge it, you'll find, oh,
look at the employer will go, look, don't worry about it.
It's never going to happen, so don't worry about it.
Just sign it off, and the workers will thinking it's
nothing to worry about. But when the worst happens, it's
like a lot of our laws in our country, they're
not going to be I mean the patch one, for example,
they're not going to be enforced unless someone's been playing up.
(20:10):
I think, well the patch, I mean, if you're wearing
the gang patch is sure, but anyone else, if you're
playing up, then you might get into trouble.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Okay, we're going to take some calls on this. I
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Actually, this is interesting question.
What we'll dig into this a bit more once we've
taken our first caller. But what are the particular things
that you really should be pretty careful about in your
contract because there'll be a whole lot of stuff there.
You think, Okay, that's not a big deal. That's not
a big deal. Oh, hold on, and we might dig
in with Max on what are the highlighted sort of
(20:40):
things you should be aware of when you're signing your
employment contract. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty Bruce, Hello, Hello Bruce,
Max here?
Speaker 8 (20:48):
Yeah, hi Max. Hey, just a quick question. I'll for
a company where the ownership's just changed. So from the
first of December, new owners own the company, and over
the Christmas period we're all on leave without pay, so
we are closed for two and a half weeks and
apart from the stats, we're not paid for any of
(21:10):
those days. So I'm guessing that I still have or
we still have four weeks a year owing to us
that can be taken through the next year.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Wow, that's do you know what? I can't answer that
because it depends on what did this new employee get
you to sign another contract?
Speaker 8 (21:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Okay? And what does that say? It's carrying over? It
should tell you do you carry over the leave that
you're entitled to? You you accumulated or not?
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:39):
Look, I'm sorry, I haven't read through it thoroughly enough.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah no, And I normally that's a verbal statement. Look,
you can carry it over if you want to or not. See,
it depends when they purchased the company. Quite often that
there is a transaction to do regarding what leaves accumulated
and how much money that represents. So quite often some
new employers come in and saying, well, actually, you've got
a brand new contract. You've got no leave entitlement until
(22:04):
another time world months is up, And the others might
come in and saying, look, we know, Bruce that you've
got ten days ohing, so that carries over and we've
done the deal with the employer, so that's fine.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Right. In our case, we were all paid out for
the leave owing to us, So we took the money.
And so the year, the twelve months starts from the
first of December, correct, so we all start at zero.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You got it. You've got to wait a year before
you're actually full entitlement. They may let you go early,
you know. But wow, this is hard on your Bruce.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Well, did you get enough money that it doesn't make
you feel so bad about it when you have cashed
out that leave?
Speaker 8 (22:42):
No, it was only own about three days, so it
wasn't much really okay, But but there's like leave without
pay surely is different to you know, an entitlement is
four weeks of paid leave per year. Well I would
have thought leave without pay was different.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Well, not necessarily. I mean, at first off, they can
say no to you taking leave at all. Employer has
that right too, And if you want to take leave
without pay, you can ask for that or they can
suggest it as a way to go, and of course
that's your option. But again they can stop you from
going if they need you. You're quite vulnerable. And look,
(23:20):
as Tim said before, there are certain things in n
employment creement you really need to watch, and this is
one Bruce. They should have warned you that the first
year you've got no leave at all, and if you
want to take holidays, well you can't, or you're going
to take it with no pay, or or we might
let you do it in advance. It'd be interesting to
know what they do.
Speaker 8 (23:39):
Cool, Okay, interesting, Thanks for b Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Cheers mate, good question for yeah. Right, if you texts
here and then we'll get on some more calls on
night ten eighty. My got some good questions here, A
lot of the extent. By the way, you will notice
some of the some of the more tricky questions will
come through on text because people, I mean, look, if
you're in a dispute with your employee.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You're getting me warmed up on this. My palms are
sweating now.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Okay, well here's one. My employer has breached my privacy
by sharing my medical information.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well that's unexceptle what can I do? Yep, you can lay.
I would contact the privacy commissioner or commission and lodge
a formal complaint. There's got to be consequences, so the
Privacy commission will probably undertake an investigation. They will then
seend the employer a letter saying have you breached it?
Because it could be consequences for this. So yeah, that's
(24:35):
a no no, and particularly with medical stuff, and you know,
and people assume that a lot of employers assume they
have the right to it.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I said, she's got there's two texts here. I've missed
the second one. It says, I mean sharing it between
employees who don't need to know, who have been laughing
about it because it's causing me to feel humially at it.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Oh my goodness. Well that's not acceptable either. I mean,
any any information that you've provided to the employer is
private and particul on that sort of nature of information,
unless it's you know, just.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
The thing is, you know, the remedies. Maybe this person's
very unhappy with what's happened, but they don't necessarily hate
their job, but they're very cross. I mean, what are
the I mean, what are the remedies that would.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, first off, I would go to the employer and
saying I'm very unhappy about this, and I want you
to go and ask those people to stop ridiculing me
and to stop spreading the story now because and then
I'm going to consider whether I take action against the
company from the breach, because I mean it really is
quite serious to do that because I'm only guessing but
what the actual allegation was, and I'm saying it's humiliating
(25:45):
and it must be allful.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
What action can employer take to make that right because
the damage has been done? I mean, what realistically would
you be advising an employer to do. I mean, because
it might be great, tell them not to talk about
it any longer. They've done it, you've shared it. It's
the case where I don't know what would you want.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
My advice to an employee would be apologize and saying
that it won't go any further and those that do
know where we'll ask them to take it no further
and look, we're sorry about that and it won't happen again.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Can the employer make it a disciplinary matter for the
employees that that employer has told, like, Okay, we made
a mistake sharing this, but if you share it with
anyone else, there's going to be discipline here. Oh yeah,
for sure, even though they're covering up their own boo boo.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If a manager did it and then there's a senior manager,
the manager should be disciplined for this. It's it's a
real no no to go and share private information like that,
and of course it's all sorts of information like somebody's
home address, bone numbers, things like that. You don't share them.
And again you can get consequences through the Privacy Commissioner.
Now that takes a long time to get through it.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Realistically, would the consequences be actually and also would it
compromise your employment if you stayed with that employer and
yet took a grievance?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh yeah it would be. I mean, they won't like it.
You're not going to get promoted any and the cost
of them is going to benificant, you know, because they've
got to defend themselves. They'll be lawyers' costs, and of
course their time is an awful thing, so they have
to go through mediation first.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Employees suggest, I expect damages for this because otherwise because
you've caused me great and you know, I don't think
it's enough that you tell people stop talking about it.
You've caused me harm and distress. What are you going
to do about it?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You could even lodge a personal a grievance now that
the Employment Relations Authority will not deal with, or a
personal a grievance is not to deal with privacy matters.
But if you lodge it on the basis it's it's
I've been disadvantaged to my employment for it and can
demonstrate that, well, then you could take an action against it. Yes,
I mean you could and look no, no, your employee
(27:45):
will not be happy.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
What's the Privacy commissioner likely to do in a case
like that. Let's just assume it's some pretty serious medical
information and it was entitled to keep that one hundred
percent private.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, it could be about your private but you know,
those sort of things would be humiliating. The Privacy Commissioner
should investigate it. They'll go through a mediation, then they'll
come up and the commissioner will make a decision on
regards to what consequences should be done and should there
be any compensation?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Oh really, they can make orders for that.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Oh yes they can. Yeah, relate, and it's a separate
judics arete in the employment one, so they have got
some powers and they do the Human Rights Act as
well the privacy in those same commissions.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Right, Okay, well we'll be back with some more texts
that if you want to jump the queue at the
call eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's twenty
one minutes to six News talksp.
Speaker 9 (28:38):
Bless your denser, bressive itself.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
And yes, welcome back to the week in collective. This
is the smart money my guest as Max Whitehead. That is,
by the way, if you like the retro sort of
Christmas thing, that's Rudolph the folks.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You should have seen if he was dancing and you see.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
It's a mumbo type of thing. Hilarious, Rudolf the red
nosed rain down and you can look for it on
Spotify and Christmas Cocktails. There's a bunch of the body.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
This was not radiated.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Was video cameras always running, They're just not brought up.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
They saw you doing that dance.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yes right hey. By the way, Max, that that text
about the person of their medical shed did send us
a response saying thank you. It can't be taken back.
Now I'm likely to have to leave as a result
after more than ten years, so so.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh no, that's it's look. Listen to me. You must
take an action. Don't lose your job, don't lose all
that for nothing. You should take an action against your employer.
That is unacceptable that you lose your job for their error.
Deserve compensation, so get into it. Don't leave before, don't
put your notice in.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You Oh, yes, that is the key thing. Do not
do not hand in your notice or leave the job
until you have sort of that action out, because there
is a problem if you leave before sort of now.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
The only action you can take a constructive dismissal. And
it's very, very difficult to prove. You've got to prove
that you had no other virtually, not quite at this level.
Virtually you have to show they no other option but
to leave. But now I think we ought to talk
about it. Give the employer. Look, if you don't reverse
this decision and go out and and do me some
favors here, I'm going to have to leave and leave
(30:33):
it to their decision, because that's that's really is right.
I'm awful.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Let's take some calls.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Jesse Toda, Hi, Jesse, Hey, Hi, Hey, I just listened
to you guys. I've just started with a new agency
in the new company. Either tign my contract yet because
I mean I said, thirty nine years in the United
States Navy, so I very close up on stuff. But
the thing I want to know is I've just started
(30:59):
this new job. Christmas is like around the corner, New
Year's around the corner. Now. My contract pretty pretty simple.
It's it's gives like uniform and gives you start date.
It gives you like you know, if you do a
serious misconduct, what the consequences are. My start times and
(31:22):
Finnish times are very good. This is a new company
that I'm just working for it.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
How long have you been? How long you've been.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
This could be four and a half weeks now.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
But the company, if you'll be sitting on that contract
or not signed it, you could be What they do say,
the courts will say is that you've as sent it
into the contract by your behavior, so you need to
get on with it and get it either signed or
rejected or get it reviewed.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Yeah, well that's that's why. That's what I like to
come on my basis. And the thing is though, it
was what's this company for? I mean, because they will
put me out to like to a different sort of
traffic companies, which is like really good. So I mean,
I've got the good skills and stuff. What I want
to know is now, basing on where they're basing on work,
(32:14):
basing on the holidays, scenario season sort of thing, that's
an employe where doors stand like if it comes to holidays,
I mean pretty much like holidays around around the corner
sort of thing. Now, I understand enough on the day
that you start as the start of in new year.
I mean I started like four weeks ago, so it's
(32:36):
probably just Jesse.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You don't don't happen titlment. You don't actually have any
entitlement to holidays. This is what I've said before. You
don't have any titilments to holidays unless your employer lets
then take them for yourself. All right, my friend, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Thanks for you call Jesse. Sorrys actually quite a difficult
phone line to hear you on there as well there,
so we can't realy we will have to move on
to some texts as well. Thanks for you, col. My
grandson has just turned eighteen SISUS Texter, and it says
that in his employment contact they had a strange abbreviation
here which I had to struggle to stand there his
(33:10):
employment contract that his employers three percent key we Saver
amount will be deducted from his own wages. Surely this
is illegal or your comments place, because I think most
people I think it's supposed to be on top, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, that's what people assume. No, the employer, and it
was tested. The employer can in the EMA I was
working there was quite shocked with this. So what they
give advice is that you can actually deduct the amount
that the employer's contribution from the employees pay if there's
an agreement to do that. So it has to be
an agreement. So I wouldn't agree to it, and I
(33:48):
would say you've signed an employment contract or employment agreement
saying that, So if you don't like it and it's
in your contract, don't sign it.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
What if they say, well, this is the deal. You
either sign it or you don't work for us. Oh,
they can say that, oh okay, and so it's a negotiation.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's a negociation and you can say, well, yeah, I'm
not happy with that. I'm not happy with this either
and all that. So either you change it or I
don't work for you. I wouldn't, I wouldn't work for them.
And look, it's common, very common.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
It's just so quick. This is not so much a question,
but maybe a bit of advice. Tim. When I first
moved to Auckland, I flitted between jobs, so I had
two to three years of not having full holiday pay.
Simple facts. Obviously they were forced to take leave unpaid.
Simple facts. I just went home and I chucked hay,
I stacked siledge to cutfish whatever, to make ends. Mate,
go and get another job. Actually this would you be
allowed to if you're forced to take leave and you're
(34:41):
not paid, you can go do some other sort of work.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I get Yeah, there's no problem with that belonging panning
not with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean it's
it's and look, I would disclose it to your employer anyway.
Just saying I'm going to pick up some other work,
you'll find most employees won't mind. So I think, go
go ahead and do it. And look, i'd say impact.
I'm quite proud of you. If you can find the
opportunity and prepared to make a bit of a living
while you're doing it, it can pay and fit some
(35:06):
pieces like that. Good on you just quickly. And I
saw something just in passing.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I don't think I read the whole article a bit
about in the United States, they're often surprised to how
much leve we get because in the United States, the
don't actually.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Get out of over there by goodness, and they get
you work.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
For your money. So you want to work, you get paid,
you don't take some time off and save it.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It looks like waiters and waitresses could get seven dollars
an hour, whereas over here we have a minimum wage
of about twenty three dollars an hour.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Mind you tipping culture over there, Yeah, yeah, it does
make up for it a little bit a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Possibly it's almost compulsory. I believe some of the actually
will just bill you your tip, which can be twenty
five percent.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Good.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Wow, that's crept up some ten percent that I'm accustomed
to whenever I've had to part and our ten or
fifteen maybe it's eleven minutes to sex. We're back and
just attack.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
The Christmas Christmas Now, there's one for your playlist.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Kenny and Kenny, Kenny and Dolly like it hard here
Kenny there because Dolly Dolly's voices stands out a country mile,
doesn't it, and a country mile being no intended pun
because of course she is the queen of country really,
isn't she Old Dolly? Anyway, Look, we've got time for
one more question with my employment expert, Max white Head
and Ash it's you get a hey.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
Esh, how are you, Mike. You're doing good.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I'm doing good.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
We've got about two minutes, so ripping.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
I'll make it very easy for you. I was working
for a very best company. They accuse me of certain
things and terminated my employment. What four years ago? Four
years ago?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Okay, four four years ago?
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yep, yes, four years ago. I am financially very stable.
I don't need any money from them. But can I
challenge them to remove that black dot which they put
on me for nothing?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
That was.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
What you know, GM who did it, and she is
sacked having Normans sacked that GM a long time ago
because she did many wrong things in the country.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Okay, let's not talk about company names too much here,
but just yeah, just the general thing.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Can we do anything?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Probably not, I would say up to four years. What
you can do is saying I don't want you disclosing
any of my private information to anybody else because that's
private to me, and so any anybody employers or anyone
else contacts you, you're not to discuss it again, and
if you do, I'll be lodging a complaint with the
Privacy Commissioner.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Does that mean say you can go back and work
for the same company. You'd like them to take that
mark off your sort of record.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Oh no, no, it's not that I want to work
for the same company, because there's separate entities in Australia
and anyway. But I just want to make sure that
this is something because obviously I was not in a
very good mental stage at that time. Okay, a lot
of pressure, ye, I.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Would I would plead on board, esh, I would plead
that under the Privacy Commission, I do not give you
consent to lodge any of that information with anybody else.
And I think just leave it at that. I'd put
a letter to them saying that, and then you've got
evidence and if there is any further sharing with anybody else,
well or they you know, some underward thing happens. Well
you know you can take an action.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Okay, good on you, Thanks thanks Ash. Actually, there is
such a thing as a striisand effect by raising something
that nobody cares about, that all of a sudden that
comes to their attention, they're going to go, oh that's right, yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
It does.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Maybe just a letter saying whatever, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Tim Beverage, Oh, here's a good Oh no, let me
tell you about the time.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, google the striisand Effect. I've talked about it a
truckload on it. In relation to Barbara, Yes, when she
didn't want the geographic survey posting coastal photos which included
her property. There are about two hundred thousand photos, and
she sued to have her photo remove. Before she sued,
there were eight views of it, six of which were
I think her own legal team. And but after she
lodged the complaint there were two hundred thousand views. And
(39:00):
it's just gone onto the millions. It's it's called the
striisand Effect. Don't mention it. But as soon as she complained,
everyone suddenly knew what Barbra streisand house looked like. And
by the way, it's spectacular.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Tim looked at.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Really seriously, it's an amazing look.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Actually, there's a big lesson in that, Tim, isn't it
It is? Don't right if you got somebody upset you
a little bit, don't go on like public complaints about it,
because you only make the situation worse.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
No one knows. And yeah, that's so. Yeah, google the
striisand Effect just so it's on Wikipedia, and it's got
a beautiful photo of her home. That's nobody had side.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I thought it had nothing to do with Barbara. And
there you go, not.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I'm Al Wisdom.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
He just quickly got a very quick question thirty seconds.
But I think we know quickly. What's the legal age
for signing a work contractless? Is Bob asking for his grandson?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
It's sixteen Otherwise you've got to get parental guidance and
then get them to sign it off before that. So
sixteen years of age. I know it's very young today. Yeah,
but yep, that's where it extends.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Under twenty year olds can't work and casinos of course
that's a slight exception for that role. But yeah, it's
sixteen years old. Hey Max, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Merry Christmas, and everybody out there love it.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Look forward to next year. People want to work, catch
catch you they can look just google, make me a
name the Whitehead group.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
And what are you doing all Christmas?
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I'm working. I'm doing breakfast show. Whoa, that's where we go.
That's how I enjoy Christmas. Keep you up busy, Thanks sir, tire,
great job, Tyra. Check out the podcast Weekend Collective on
iHeartRadio and it We'll catch again next weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks ed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I want a lot for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That is just one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I don't care about the present, love the Christmas tree.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I just watch you for my own You could e
ONEO make my own wish come for Christmas? It excuse me?
(00:59):
Tell me bad happy ah.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, you're thinking you're going to get Mariah cries whatever.
I can't remember what the song was now, but anyway,
we're playing Happy Birthday just because welcome back to the
Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge and this is this is
smart Money, and my guest is well, he's been for
high tea today across the road at a hotel because
he's celebrating his birthday. So we thought we'd play a
(01:29):
little bit of Stevie Wonder to say happy Birthday.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
To imagine cheering it with a big fellow.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I mean, I haven't got your name out yet. It's
Max Whitehead. No you may talk.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, look at that. Imagine me sharing your birthday with
a big fellow. And look you look so romantic looking
me in the eyes of that first bit, where you
know I just want to spend Christmas with you and
then next week all I want for the rombi stuff.
So good old week.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So happy birthday, happy fifty nine again.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Thank you Tim, thank you, Tyra, thank you very good.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Hey, nice to have you on the studio.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Max.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How you doing very good? Very good? Wow, I'm not
much happier.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Now of course, Well what because of the high team.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
The big fuss? No no, no, no no.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
T sounds so healthy, isn't I didn't realize it probably
starts off with the glass of shamps, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It normally does. But my darling, she looked after that
for me.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Excellent. Good to see. Anyway, Hey, look we're going to
there's a bunch of things to talk about in the
show this afternoon. But by the way, Max Whitehead, as
you will know, if you've listened as an employment relations practitioner,
and if you have any particular questions about your employment situation,
whether it be as an employee or as an employer,
(02:32):
then you can give Max a call on eight hundred
eighty ten eighty and you can run your questions by him.
There are a couple of things we want to touch on.
One of them is actually just about how much you
should be able to post on your social media without
it being any of your boss's business. And we'll dig
into that in just a sect. But I also wanted
to throw out there just a slightly more fun seasonal
(02:55):
question around the secret center in the workplace. And look,
we have a secret Sandy here, and I'm playing it
safe with my secret center. But I imagine sometimes there
are secret center gifts which are not really appropriate in
the workplace, such as the tesco's manager who gave a
female colleague work. It's five o'clock in the afternoon on
(03:16):
a Sunday, So how do I say he gave her
something to enjoy herself with? And I think we got
it and was sacked for gross misconduct after it was
decided he'd abused his position of trust. There were a
couple of things about the story. I thought that secret
Center was secret center, and I guess that the advice
you'd be is don't trust it as secret. We use
(03:37):
actually our one. We use a website that the guy
who organizes it uses a website which is called draw Names,
And so no one apparently knows. I don't think anyone
knows who, and everyone will know what your gift will be,
what well it's appropriate with your character.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It'll be exactly you know as it is. There'll be tim,
There'll be tim.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
No, no, no, you won't work this one out. But anyway,
I mean how careful. I guess with anything in the workplace,
you just have to operate as if you're always under scrutiny,
don't you? Is that the rule probably with secret sanders?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well yeah, and of course, like back in the old
days that you just wear that and go ah, very
nice and put in the bin when you get home.
But it will or not, it depends. But today no,
people are a bit more more sensitive and can be
offended very easily. So I mean, if you're an older
gentleman or somebody, you got to take a lot more care.
(04:29):
And that is reckless. And for a senior manager, I
would say, yeah, that's poor taste. And if it is
a senior manager, oh what.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
To be honest, I googled I thought there has to
be a story about an appropriate secret center gifts, and
I pretty much gurgled it. But they actually went too
many stories because I think most people just get into
the Christmas spirit. How much would you spend how much
do you think you'd spend on a secret center?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, the ones I got involved with. It's very minor,
like twenty bucks or something like that. I actually one
time I had a painting at home I didn't like,
so I wrapped that up and took it in and
everyone so impressed. Oh wow, look you.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Did it look like an impressive artwork? Does it like it?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It was a fire scene or something. It was pretty awful.
But I mean somebody actually loved it, and they did
bidding afterwards, and she bought it for a fortune.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Really what sort of fortune?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, I can't recall now. Maybe oh, they paid probably
sixty bucks for it or something, or one hundred bucks.
I can't recall what it was. But that was a
secret sand I put it in. But then they somebody
else wanted it, and you go, I think that's a
good idea that if you've got a gift you didn't
really want. Like somebody close to me just got a
bottle open a recently pretty flash one and she's, oh god,
I didn't want that.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
There was actually quite a knack to a secret sander,
because I mean, in terms of giving people something, Luckily,
the workplace one we've got here you can put in.
And I've been a bit of a Grinch. But by
the way, I've hardly even done it, but I thought
I've got to get into the spirit this year and
do it. But they do have a thing where you
can say roughly what your interests.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So what did you buy? You can tell us. We
won't tell anyone there no one listening.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
No, there's no way I'm telling you I haven't bought
it yet. Anyway, come on to I was and talked
about something off here afterwards, but no one. But anyway,
if you want, you want to have a chat about
secret soundersn't actually just simple questions in the workplace about
how bring them on because we've got a minimum, a
minimum one in our workplace. That's you've got to spend
(06:18):
minimum twenty bucks. Because I think what's happened is people
just get something without any thought. And I think if
you're in your secret sounding you've got to make an
effort find a little bit about this about it. The
person who is who you're you know you're buying for,
And that's the whole spirit.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Bother, do you know who you're buying for?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Well, you've got to know who you're buying for.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well not always, no, it depends on how it runs.
You know, sometimes it's a lot of and you just
get well you do being good.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Oh no, it goes into a name and you've given
a name. They don't know who you are, but you
obviously know who they are because you and you learn
what their interests are and then you buy accordingly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Like I kind of like it. It's good spirit. It
makes people laugh a lot and whatever. But yeah, putting
a toy like that to please somebody, I think probably
going a bit too fun probably thought it was funny.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah exactly. I actually, actually there are some good gift
shops around which, you know, the sort of upmarket sort
of gift shops that have got the sort of things
that no, no, just really well thought out lovely gifts. And
the shop that I'm going to that I've support for choice,
So there we go.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Anyway, Just did you buy a tree?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
No plant?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What does it come on?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Guess what? No one switched your mic off? That'll get
you to.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
He's got the power. He's got the power.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Hey. But on that side of the sort of social
side of life, social.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
Media and and your boss and in your employment situation,
how much of your personal social media, if any, is
the business of your.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Employer well, if you're putting on social media, you're going public,
and so your employers are entitled to have a look
at it. But if you're talking about work, that's the
no no. So I mean, you can talk about work
in a positive fashion, but if you say something negative
then you're you're bringing the business into disrepute and you're
in big trouble. And it's it's been going on for
(08:04):
a bit, ten fifteen years. Employees get in big trouble
for social media. What if they're saying something that's true irrespective,
it's just bringing the company into disrepute. I mean quite
often in employment agreements, quite often the employer will say,
you know, no public comments about the business and are
not allowed, and you're welcome to tell people where you work,
(08:25):
but that's really it finishes at that point in time.
So it's bringing the employer into disrepute. Those are the
key words that you work buying.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
What about your own I guess there are certain Obviously,
if you've got an Instagram page and it's just you know,
it's you don't allow anyone to follow you by request
that you're probably reasonably safe on that. But when it
comes to public social media, is there a level where
it doesn't matter. It's not about your employee or your employer,
(08:53):
but your behavior or something you've shown on social media
goes a bit beyond the pale. Is there a point
where the employer can say, well, hang on a minute,
you know, we're not happy that you people know that
you work for our company and or whatever, or I know,
they just worry that you are exhibiting a standard of behavior.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Let's say, well, look, look look at someone like yourself,
your high profile individual, who would be if there was
any underward things said by you, you were acting like
a bit of a Dell online, then yeah, they are
entitled to say your brand goes with our brand and
it's associated.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Stop it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Or in fact, I would warn you first. I wouldn't
actually go straight into discipline and dismissal, but if you
started talking about the company and negatively, then it would
be probably dismissal.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Have there been cases where people have got in trouble
for simply, you know, maybe shown photos of them maybe
being overly inebriated and noxious or anti social or something
which has got them in trouble with their employer per se,
It would depend on their job description.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It would because imagine, I'll look, what was it, a
high high profile person again, a high profile organization and
he got into road rage of an individual and actually
ended up running them over.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh well, that's kind of illegal anyway, It's.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Kind of there's nothing to do with work. And he
was fired because of his high profile and he was
associated with the workplace, and with that they said, sorry,
we can't have you an our employed. People need to
trust you and to know that you can lose it
like that and actually get out of control is not acceptable.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
And there would be certain occupations I guess where it
would be more important that you maintain a cleaner image
on social media. I guess the one that immediately comes
to mind is if you work for a high profile
law firm or something or PR company and where your
clients have to trust you and they expect you, know,
if you're working for a charging five hundred bucks an
hour for your law firm, for your advice and in
(10:57):
your private time, people see you sort of chundering on
the foot path.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Christmas A good subject because that has been one of
the high profile law firms in New Zealand about four
or five years ago was in big trouble, really for
that sort of thing, you know, just with the young
girls in the workplace. Oh oh yeah, yeah right, So
when yeah, it was appropriate, then that sort of discipline
action followed that through particularly was senior managers. Now people
(11:21):
expect better behavior from you, So you got more scrutiny.
The higher level you go up, the more the more
you're vulnerable in terms of were actually toppling down.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Actually, the story that led us to discussing this initially,
by the way, you've got any questions from Max, give
us call on one hundred and eighty ten eighty, was
actually motivated by that photo. Remember after the new big
gang patch laws came in and then there was a
photo police were seeing in leaked pictures where they were
wearing confiscated patched vests. I have to be honest with you,
I thought that was kind of funny that within the
police station that they might have been look and as
(11:54):
a joke sort of thing. Oh, unfortunately, the camera came out.
No no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And look depending i'd say, his audience right in front
of him. There he was parading around, probably strutting about
with it on, probably appreciated it. But again, you're dead right,
it's not everyone will appreciate it, so you've got to
play to the minority. And the minority that don't like it, well, man,
you're in trouble. And that man, I take it from
the comments made, and I'm assuming here that he's quite
(12:22):
well thought of as a policeman, and I see some
empathy from the Minister towards him just just by saying, look,
I'm sure he regrets it.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah. Actually, I sort of feel bad bringing it up
because in a way, I think most people probably saw
that and thought, well, of course there's probably going to
be just for a bit of a joke, you know,
to put it on. But you just don't want that
stuff to hit the public sphere, do you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Oh, do you know what you told me? You're going
to ask me that question. So I've been doing heaps
of research. I found out what the Act said. I
went back and said, that's the limit. Well, there's an
act which enables and that's the power of the cord
and to enable patches not to be worn, I demanded them.
So my question to myself was what about you know,
(13:03):
like where a brand, your brand yourself, what would happen
like you business people buy t shirts off their brand
on it, give it to the people.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Is that is that a patch? No, no, it gets
it gets described by cabinet. Cabinet put a list of
gang band gang patches. So that's not just any old label.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It does say that, but no, no, it's quite wider
than that. It's something so it could be including it's
including all the gangs that are.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Something associated with that. Yeah, that's an interesting one, it is.
I mean, if somebody's business was associated with a gang.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean it's over the top. I think there's a
lot of leeway for the police individuals to actually make
make their own decisions on that. Because the Salvation Army
wear a brand, don't they very loudly? And look, that'd
be the last people you'd want to go on a
resk wearing wearing a patch.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah, I think that probably pretty so.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think they'd be a little bit of public uproar about, like.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
I guess on this love your calls one hundred eighty
ten to eighty. Look, we've got some other serious things
we want to get touch on as well, because there
are a few other big issues and employment law. But
we'll take the break now and if you'd like to
run past any question you've got with Max about your
employment situation, whether you're an employee or an employer, you
can give us a call on eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
(14:13):
But also what your thoughts are on you know, do
you think that whatever you post online is your business
and none of that of your employers? And I guess
it depends what sort of job you're in, doesn't it. Again,
give us a call on that on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. It's coming up to twenty one past five
news talks. He'd b yes, welcome back to the show.
Now we're talking about employment issues with Max Whitehead, and
you can give us a call if you've got some
(14:33):
questions heading into the break. Actually, here's the other one's
that cropped up to my mind was about being forced
to take annual leave in the Christmas holidays, which to
many people would grind a lot of employees gears because
some business is closed down and they just can you
be forced to take annual leave at Christmas and any
(14:55):
other time?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes? You can. Now look the minimum that the employer
a shows to give you is fourteen days notice. But
also they are totally have a shutdown period each year
up and they don't have the exercise if they don't
want to. But most, like you know, retailers, usually stay open.
So other employers like the big manufacturers and those sort
of stuff, normally have a shutdown over Christmas in the
(15:17):
new year, and you're compelled, compelled to take your holidays.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Can they shut down for the total period of your
holiday allowance? So say I, if you're eligible for a
lot of people are eligible for three or four weeks,
could can they shut down? And basically you have to
use all your leave over that shutdown period.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's worse than that tim So if you've just started
working there and you've only accumulated enough for two or
three days and your holiday, they can force you to
take two weeks. And if you haven't got enough money, honey,
you know enough? Yeah, yeah, they can say to them
right over, then you're taking leaving advance or and otherwise
you're going to owe us that much money with giving
(16:01):
you pay, or they just dock your page and you
get no pay.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You it would be forced to take what that's you'd be.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Forced to take it with no pay.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
That is actually an important area in your contract to
make sure you have that covered off, because I must
saying when I first did my sort of salary job,
I did sort of hate the idea that I had
to earn that leave. I liked to think that within
that year I could take If I had three weeks leave,
then I could take three weeks leave that year, and
I probably did.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But you know, the laws is that in the first
twelve months of employment you're not actually entitled to any
leave unless it's this this shutdown thing that I'm talking about.
But you have to accumulate all your leave first and
then you can start taking full like four weeks a year.
So after twelve months you get four weeks, but up
to that point you're not. Most employees will allow you
(16:53):
to take leave in advance.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I guess it means you're really going to appreciate your weekends,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You know, there's still a lot of people out there
don't even take leave, and they accumulate and cumulate and cumulate,
and we're hearing it all the time. They are owed
weeks and weeks of leave and because they don't take it.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
And if your employer in the end has to has
to basically will force you to take it, won't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
They And they can and they reluctant to do that
because they're like, you know, you're obviously a key person,
and you're reliable, and you know, these are the sort
of people that don't take sickly very often either, and
so yeah, they usually they're reluctant to force you. But
in the end, the accountant says them, you've got to
clean up that deficit you've got, well that that money
that you actually owe the employees.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Some people see some people see the sick leave as
almost an entitlement. I haven't taken on a sick leave yet.
It's like, and I would say, it's not there as
a right to take it, Like, Okay, you're going to
take a couple of days because you've recrued all the
sick leave. It's you've got to be sick to take sick.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Well, a lot of people today actually see it is
what you've just talked about. It's their damn right, and
I'm going to take it. Is maximize it to my benefit.
But tilly in a way, because if you get really sick,
you're better off to accumulate a whole other days. So
you can accumulate up to a maximum of twenty odd days,
which is four weeks but after that it's up to
your employee if they let you to accumulate. But the
(18:17):
employer then can at anytime tell you, hey, you've got
to take your leave, and they can compel you but
long and they give you four ding days notice.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
BlimE. Me's a lot of things to think about, because
most people think when they start a job, it's like
I've got a job. HOORAYI can't wait. You know, they
get hand a few pieces of paper history employment contractors
sign here. How many people actually would I mean for
jobs where I guess when you're taking the higher up
the tree you go, you're probably going to get more engaged.
But when you're at entry level you've got your first job,
(18:48):
people would just assume O, this is something everyone signs.
Do How many people do you think read their contract?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, here's a big hint on that one, because quite
often I review employment agreements for them for new staff.
They sell check it out the bosses. I'm allowed to
get somebody to check it out? Would you do it?
And so I send a big report actually do them
quite thoroughly, and then say well this cause no, I
wouldn't recommend that, and perhaps look out for this and
restraint of trades. I just hate them because I'd say, well,
do not don't like them either, don't sign that no, no,
(19:16):
But guess what, they're so excited about the job. They
do it anyway, And I think, why did I even bother.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I wonder whether sometimes the employer employee relationship relies on
ultimately establishing a good relationship when neither of them refer
to the contract. And most people probably think, look, I'm
just going to make sure I kick my head down,
bum up. I behaved myself and when I need what
I need, you know if I've been a good employee,
(19:42):
and likewise, I imagine hopefully that's actually how most of
employer relationships they have governed. Well, it's only when the proverbial.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hits the fan, exactly, and if you challenge it, you'll find, oh,
look at the employer will go, look, don't worry about it.
It's never going to happen, so don't worry about it.
Just sign it off, and the workers will thinking it's
nothing to worry about. But when the worst happens, it's
like a lot of our laws in our country, they're
not going to be I mean the patch one, for example,
they're not going to be enforced unless someone's been playing up.
(20:10):
I think, well the patch, I mean, if you're wearing
the gang patch is sure, but anyone else, if you're
playing up, then you might get into trouble.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Okay, we're going to take some calls on this. I
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Actually, this is interesting question.
What we'll dig into this a bit more once we've
taken our first caller. But what are the particular things
that you really should be pretty careful about in your
contract because there'll be a whole lot of stuff there.
You think, Okay, that's not a big deal. That's not
a big deal. Oh, hold on, and we might dig
in with Max on what are the highlighted sort of
(20:40):
things you should be aware of when you're signing your
employment contract. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty Bruce, Hello, Hello Bruce,
Max here?
Speaker 8 (20:48):
Yeah, hi Max. Hey, just a quick question. I'll for
a company where the ownership's just changed. So from the
first of December, new owners own the company, and over
the Christmas period we're all on leave without pay, so
we are closed for two and a half weeks and
apart from the stats, we're not paid for any of
(21:10):
those days. So I'm guessing that I still have or
we still have four weeks a year owing to us
that can be taken through the next year.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Wow, that's do you know what? I can't answer that
because it depends on what did this new employee get
you to sign another contract?
Speaker 8 (21:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Okay? And what does that say? It's carrying over? It
should tell you do you carry over the leave that
you're entitled to? You you accumulated or not?
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:39):
Look, I'm sorry, I haven't read through it thoroughly enough.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah no, And I normally that's a verbal statement. Look,
you can carry it over if you want to or not. See,
it depends when they purchased the company. Quite often that
there is a transaction to do regarding what leaves accumulated
and how much money that represents. So quite often some
new employers come in and saying, well, actually, you've got
a brand new contract. You've got no leave entitlement until
(22:04):
another time world months is up, And the others might
come in and saying, look, we know, Bruce that you've
got ten days ohing, so that carries over and we've
done the deal with the employer, so that's fine.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Right. In our case, we were all paid out for
the leave owing to us, So we took the money.
And so the year, the twelve months starts from the
first of December, correct, so we all start at zero.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You got it. You've got to wait a year before
you're actually full entitlement. They may let you go early,
you know. But wow, this is hard on your Bruce.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Well, did you get enough money that it doesn't make
you feel so bad about it when you have cashed
out that leave?
Speaker 8 (22:42):
No, it was only own about three days, so it
wasn't much really okay, But but there's like leave without
pay surely is different to you know, an entitlement is
four weeks of paid leave per year. Well I would
have thought leave without pay was different.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Well, not necessarily. I mean, at first off, they can
say no to you taking leave at all. Employer has
that right too, And if you want to take leave
without pay, you can ask for that or they can
suggest it as a way to go, and of course
that's your option. But again they can stop you from
going if they need you. You're quite vulnerable. And look,
(23:20):
as Tim said before, there are certain things in n
employment creement you really need to watch, and this is
one Bruce. They should have warned you that the first
year you've got no leave at all, and if you
want to take holidays, well you can't, or you're going
to take it with no pay, or or we might
let you do it in advance. It'd be interesting to
know what they do.
Speaker 8 (23:39):
Cool, Okay, interesting, Thanks for b Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Cheers mate, good question for yeah. Right, if you texts
here and then we'll get on some more calls on
night ten eighty. My got some good questions here, A
lot of the extent. By the way, you will notice
some of the some of the more tricky questions will
come through on text because people, I mean, look, if
you're in a dispute with your employee.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You're getting me warmed up on this. My palms are
sweating now.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Okay, well here's one. My employer has breached my privacy
by sharing my medical information.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well that's unexceptle what can I do? Yep, you can lay.
I would contact the privacy commissioner or commission and lodge
a formal complaint. There's got to be consequences, so the
Privacy commission will probably undertake an investigation. They will then
seend the employer a letter saying have you breached it?
Because it could be consequences for this. So yeah, that's
(24:35):
a no no, and particularly with medical stuff, and you know,
and people assume that a lot of employers assume they
have the right to it.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I said, she's got there's two texts here. I've missed
the second one. It says, I mean sharing it between
employees who don't need to know, who have been laughing
about it because it's causing me to feel humially at it.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Oh my goodness. Well that's not acceptable either. I mean,
any any information that you've provided to the employer is
private and particul on that sort of nature of information,
unless it's you know, just.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
The thing is, you know, the remedies. Maybe this person's
very unhappy with what's happened, but they don't necessarily hate
their job, but they're very cross. I mean, what are
the I mean, what are the remedies that would.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, first off, I would go to the employer and
saying I'm very unhappy about this, and I want you
to go and ask those people to stop ridiculing me
and to stop spreading the story now because and then
I'm going to consider whether I take action against the
company from the breach, because I mean it really is
quite serious to do that because I'm only guessing but
what the actual allegation was, and I'm saying it's humiliating
(25:45):
and it must be allful.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
What action can employer take to make that right because
the damage has been done? I mean, what realistically would
you be advising an employer to do. I mean, because
it might be great, tell them not to talk about
it any longer. They've done it, you've shared it. It's
the case where I don't know what would you want.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
My advice to an employee would be apologize and saying
that it won't go any further and those that do
know where we'll ask them to take it no further
and look, we're sorry about that and it won't happen again.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Can the employer make it a disciplinary matter for the
employees that that employer has told, like, Okay, we made
a mistake sharing this, but if you share it with
anyone else, there's going to be discipline here. Oh yeah,
for sure, even though they're covering up their own boo boo.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If a manager did it and then there's a senior manager,
the manager should be disciplined for this. It's it's a
real no no to go and share private information like that,
and of course it's all sorts of information like somebody's
home address, bone numbers, things like that. You don't share them.
And again you can get consequences through the Privacy Commissioner.
Now that takes a long time to get through it.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Realistically, would the consequences be actually and also would it
compromise your employment if you stayed with that employer and
yet took a grievance?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh yeah it would be. I mean, they won't like it.
You're not going to get promoted any and the cost
of them is going to benificant, you know, because they've
got to defend themselves. They'll be lawyers' costs, and of
course their time is an awful thing, so they have
to go through mediation first.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Employees suggest, I expect damages for this because otherwise because
you've caused me great and you know, I don't think
it's enough that you tell people stop talking about it.
You've caused me harm and distress. What are you going
to do about it?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You could even lodge a personal a grievance now that
the Employment Relations Authority will not deal with, or a
personal a grievance is not to deal with privacy matters.
But if you lodge it on the basis it's it's
I've been disadvantaged to my employment for it and can
demonstrate that, well, then you could take an action against it. Yes,
I mean you could and look no, no, your employee
(27:45):
will not be happy.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
What's the Privacy commissioner likely to do in a case
like that. Let's just assume it's some pretty serious medical
information and it was entitled to keep that one hundred
percent private.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, it could be about your private but you know,
those sort of things would be humiliating. The Privacy Commissioner
should investigate it. They'll go through a mediation, then they'll
come up and the commissioner will make a decision on
regards to what consequences should be done and should there
be any compensation?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Oh really, they can make orders for that.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Oh yes they can. Yeah, relate, and it's a separate
judics arete in the employment one, so they have got
some powers and they do the Human Rights Act as
well the privacy in those same commissions.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Right, Okay, well we'll be back with some more texts
that if you want to jump the queue at the
call eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's twenty
one minutes to six News talksp.
Speaker 9 (28:38):
Bless your denser, bressive itself.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
And yes, welcome back to the week in collective. This
is the smart money my guest as Max Whitehead. That is,
by the way, if you like the retro sort of
Christmas thing, that's Rudolph the folks.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You should have seen if he was dancing and you see.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
It's a mumbo type of thing. Hilarious, Rudolf the red
nosed rain down and you can look for it on
Spotify and Christmas Cocktails. There's a bunch of the body.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
This was not radiated.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Was video cameras always running, They're just not brought up.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
They saw you doing that dance.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yes right hey. By the way, Max, that that text
about the person of their medical shed did send us
a response saying thank you. It can't be taken back.
Now I'm likely to have to leave as a result
after more than ten years, so so.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh no, that's it's look. Listen to me. You must
take an action. Don't lose your job, don't lose all
that for nothing. You should take an action against your employer.
That is unacceptable that you lose your job for their error.
Deserve compensation, so get into it. Don't leave before, don't
put your notice in.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You Oh, yes, that is the key thing. Do not
do not hand in your notice or leave the job
until you have sort of that action out, because there
is a problem if you leave before sort of now.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
The only action you can take a constructive dismissal. And
it's very, very difficult to prove. You've got to prove
that you had no other virtually, not quite at this level.
Virtually you have to show they no other option but
to leave. But now I think we ought to talk
about it. Give the employer. Look, if you don't reverse
this decision and go out and and do me some
favors here, I'm going to have to leave and leave
(30:33):
it to their decision, because that's that's really is right.
I'm awful.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Let's take some calls.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Jesse Toda, Hi, Jesse, Hey, Hi, Hey, I just listened
to you guys. I've just started with a new agency
in the new company. Either tign my contract yet because
I mean I said, thirty nine years in the United
States Navy, so I very close up on stuff. But
the thing I want to know is I've just started
(30:59):
this new job. Christmas is like around the corner, New
Year's around the corner. Now. My contract pretty pretty simple.
It's it's gives like uniform and gives you start date.
It gives you like you know, if you do a
serious misconduct, what the consequences are. My start times and
(31:22):
Finnish times are very good. This is a new company
that I'm just working for it.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
How long have you been? How long you've been.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
This could be four and a half weeks now.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
But the company, if you'll be sitting on that contract
or not signed it, you could be What they do say,
the courts will say is that you've as sent it
into the contract by your behavior, so you need to
get on with it and get it either signed or
rejected or get it reviewed.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Yeah, well that's that's why. That's what I like to
come on my basis. And the thing is though, it
was what's this company for? I mean, because they will
put me out to like to a different sort of
traffic companies, which is like really good. So I mean,
I've got the good skills and stuff. What I want
to know is now, basing on where they're basing on work,
(32:14):
basing on the holidays, scenario season sort of thing, that's
an employe where doors stand like if it comes to holidays,
I mean pretty much like holidays around around the corner
sort of thing. Now, I understand enough on the day
that you start as the start of in new year.
I mean I started like four weeks ago, so it's
(32:36):
probably just Jesse.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You don't don't happen titlment. You don't actually have any
entitlement to holidays. This is what I've said before. You
don't have any titilments to holidays unless your employer lets
then take them for yourself. All right, my friend, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Thanks for you call Jesse. Sorrys actually quite a difficult
phone line to hear you on there as well there,
so we can't realy we will have to move on
to some texts as well. Thanks for you, col. My
grandson has just turned eighteen SISUS Texter, and it says
that in his employment contact they had a strange abbreviation
here which I had to struggle to stand there his
(33:10):
employment contract that his employers three percent key we Saver
amount will be deducted from his own wages. Surely this
is illegal or your comments place, because I think most
people I think it's supposed to be on top, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, that's what people assume. No, the employer, and it
was tested. The employer can in the EMA I was
working there was quite shocked with this. So what they
give advice is that you can actually deduct the amount
that the employer's contribution from the employees pay if there's
an agreement to do that. So it has to be
an agreement. So I wouldn't agree to it, and I
(33:48):
would say you've signed an employment contract or employment agreement
saying that, So if you don't like it and it's
in your contract, don't sign it.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
What if they say, well, this is the deal. You
either sign it or you don't work for us. Oh,
they can say that, oh okay, and so it's a negotiation.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's a negociation and you can say, well, yeah, I'm
not happy with that. I'm not happy with this either
and all that. So either you change it or I
don't work for you. I wouldn't, I wouldn't work for them.
And look, it's common, very common.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
It's just so quick. This is not so much a question,
but maybe a bit of advice. Tim. When I first
moved to Auckland, I flitted between jobs, so I had
two to three years of not having full holiday pay.
Simple facts. Obviously they were forced to take leave unpaid.
Simple facts. I just went home and I chucked hay,
I stacked siledge to cutfish whatever, to make ends. Mate,
go and get another job. Actually this would you be
allowed to if you're forced to take leave and you're
(34:41):
not paid, you can go do some other sort of work.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I get Yeah, there's no problem with that belonging panning
not with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean it's
it's and look, I would disclose it to your employer anyway.
Just saying I'm going to pick up some other work,
you'll find most employees won't mind. So I think, go
go ahead and do it. And look, i'd say impact.
I'm quite proud of you. If you can find the
opportunity and prepared to make a bit of a living
while you're doing it, it can pay and fit some
(35:06):
pieces like that. Good on you just quickly. And I
saw something just in passing.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I don't think I read the whole article a bit
about in the United States, they're often surprised to how
much leve we get because in the United States, the
don't actually.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Get out of over there by goodness, and they get
you work.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
For your money. So you want to work, you get paid,
you don't take some time off and save it.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It looks like waiters and waitresses could get seven dollars
an hour, whereas over here we have a minimum wage
of about twenty three dollars an hour.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Mind you tipping culture over there, Yeah, yeah, it does
make up for it a little bit a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Possibly it's almost compulsory. I believe some of the actually
will just bill you your tip, which can be twenty
five percent.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Good.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Wow, that's crept up some ten percent that I'm accustomed
to whenever I've had to part and our ten or
fifteen maybe it's eleven minutes to sex. We're back and
just attack.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
The Christmas Christmas Now, there's one for your playlist.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Kenny and Kenny, Kenny and Dolly like it hard here
Kenny there because Dolly Dolly's voices stands out a country mile,
doesn't it, and a country mile being no intended pun
because of course she is the queen of country really,
isn't she Old Dolly? Anyway, Look, we've got time for
one more question with my employment expert, Max white Head
and Ash it's you get a hey.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
Esh, how are you, Mike. You're doing good.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I'm doing good.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
We've got about two minutes, so ripping.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
I'll make it very easy for you. I was working
for a very best company. They accuse me of certain
things and terminated my employment. What four years ago? Four
years ago?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Okay, four four years ago?
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yep, yes, four years ago. I am financially very stable.
I don't need any money from them. But can I
challenge them to remove that black dot which they put
on me for nothing?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
That was.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
What you know, GM who did it, and she is
sacked having Normans sacked that GM a long time ago
because she did many wrong things in the country.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Okay, let's not talk about company names too much here,
but just yeah, just the general thing.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Can we do anything?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Probably not, I would say up to four years. What
you can do is saying I don't want you disclosing
any of my private information to anybody else because that's
private to me, and so any anybody employers or anyone
else contacts you, you're not to discuss it again, and
if you do, I'll be lodging a complaint with the
Privacy Commissioner.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Does that mean say you can go back and work
for the same company. You'd like them to take that
mark off your sort of record.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Oh no, no, it's not that I want to work
for the same company, because there's separate entities in Australia
and anyway. But I just want to make sure that
this is something because obviously I was not in a
very good mental stage at that time. Okay, a lot
of pressure, ye, I.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Would I would plead on board, esh, I would plead
that under the Privacy Commission, I do not give you
consent to lodge any of that information with anybody else.
And I think just leave it at that. I'd put
a letter to them saying that, and then you've got
evidence and if there is any further sharing with anybody else,
well or they you know, some underward thing happens. Well
you know you can take an action.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Okay, good on you, Thanks thanks Ash. Actually, there is
such a thing as a striisand effect by raising something
that nobody cares about, that all of a sudden that
comes to their attention, they're going to go, oh that's right, yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
It does.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Maybe just a letter saying whatever, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Tim Beverage, Oh, here's a good Oh no, let me
tell you about the time.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, google the striisand Effect. I've talked about it a
truckload on it. In relation to Barbara, Yes, when she
didn't want the geographic survey posting coastal photos which included
her property. There are about two hundred thousand photos, and
she sued to have her photo remove. Before she sued,
there were eight views of it, six of which were
I think her own legal team. And but after she
lodged the complaint there were two hundred thousand views. And
(39:00):
it's just gone onto the millions. It's it's called the
striisand Effect. Don't mention it. But as soon as she complained,
everyone suddenly knew what Barbra streisand house looked like. And
by the way, it's spectacular.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Tim looked at.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Really seriously, it's an amazing look.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Actually, there's a big lesson in that, Tim, isn't it
It is? Don't right if you got somebody upset you
a little bit, don't go on like public complaints about it,
because you only make the situation worse.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
No one knows. And yeah, that's so. Yeah, google the
striisand Effect just so it's on Wikipedia, and it's got
a beautiful photo of her home. That's nobody had side.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I thought it had nothing to do with Barbara. And
there you go, not.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I'm Al Wisdom.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
He just quickly got a very quick question thirty seconds.
But I think we know quickly. What's the legal age
for signing a work contractless? Is Bob asking for his grandson?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
It's sixteen Otherwise you've got to get parental guidance and
then get them to sign it off before that. So
sixteen years of age. I know it's very young today. Yeah,
but yep, that's where it extends.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Under twenty year olds can't work and casinos of course
that's a slight exception for that role. But yeah, it's
sixteen years old. Hey Max, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Merry Christmas, and everybody out there love it.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Look forward to next year. People want to work, catch
catch you they can look just google, make me a
name the Whitehead group.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
And what are you doing all Christmas?
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I'm working. I'm doing breakfast show. Whoa, that's where we go.
That's how I enjoy Christmas. Keep you up busy, Thanks sir, tire,
great job, Tyra. Check out the podcast Weekend Collective on
iHeartRadio and it We'll catch again next weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks ed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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