October 22, 2024 • 21 mins
On Sports Fix with D'Arcy Waldegrave for Wednesday 23 October 2024, former Rugby Australia Chair Hamish McLennan talks about the addition of Joseph Sua'ali'i to the Wallabies + his calls for RA to sign Nathan Cleary.
D'Arcy delivers an opinion piece on the Black Caps' chances of backing up from the first test.
Plus, NZ Herald Online Sports Editor Alex Powell joined the panel to discuss a possible new home for the America's Cup.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is Sportsfix howard By News Talks d B.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Here we go again, Welcome on to the Sports Fix,
your daily home of all of our big sports stories.
My name is Darcy Walter Grave and coming up in
this episode the twenty third of October twenty twenty four. First,
I'll have a chat with the former chair of Rugby
Australia Hamish mcclennan, after his assertion that Rugby Australia should
(00:43):
be chasing league superstars, in particular one Nathan Cleary. This
is on the back of the presumed success of Joseph
su are Lee, a man that was roped in by
Hamish McLennan when he was the chair of Rugby Australia.
Up after that, I've got some opinion on the second
test of three. The Indians are still in shock after
(01:07):
getting beaten by New Zealand in that first test. What
has to happen, What are the conditions going to be
like and what happens when you poke an Indian bear?
Beyond that will be joined by Alex Powe. He's a
digital sports editor for New Zealand Herald. As we'll toss
around some of the big sporting topics of the day.
That's our plan. Let's get amongst in other news. Let's
(01:32):
take a quick look now, al more's the point. Listen
now to Sport of a Day. Qui debut worth the
wait for Jordan Riki. The twenty four year old second
rower has been listed on the interchange for Sunday Specific
Championship Test against Australia in his hometown of Ututa, christ Church.
I think he was named in the New Zealand squad
(01:52):
back in twenty twenty three, but he withdrew late after
picking up a shoulder injury playing for the Broncos in
the NRL Grand Final.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Extremely guarded to miss out last year to go strain
the surgery.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
So I'm hugely great form, blessed to be able to
be back in the and pil.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Of the boys.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And you know you probably couldn't write a better script really.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Australian Diamonds defender Courtney Bruce is confidence she'll have the
better of Silver Fern shooter Grace Wicki this time around
in Neple's Constellation Cup. The twenty two year old Kiwi
shot fifty goals from fifty three attempts in the opener,
with the veteran Ossie nabbing only one intercept.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Grace had a great game the other night and then
just watch some footage back and I was.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Very close to a load of the balls.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
So hopefully just a few extra jumps in in the
move will help us get up to them.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Mitch Hayes credited his Canterbury teammates for accelerating his progression
into the Black Caps. The wicked keeper bat has received
a maiden call up for a limited overs series in
Sri Lanka next month.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Such a good environment we have here where guys are
so open to sharing their knowledge and a lot of
questions get asked at training of the guys who have
played the international level, Guys like Henry Nichol has been
amazing for me just to talk to about what it
takes for that next year beating of it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
We've got just the ticket. It's Sports fix by News Talks.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is he we'll join now by Hams Clennon. He is
a former chair of Rugby Australia. As we look at
some comments that he made in Sydney Morning Herald around
the possibility of attacking rugby league for more great players,
saying they bring bums on seat. Hamish of course, was
behind the acquisition of Joseph so Lee for what was it,
(03:33):
five million dollars and thinks it's done big things and
there's more to come. Hamoush, welcome to the show. Great
to have you on again. Interesting words, Nathan Cleary, You've
got to target on his back and I'm sure he's
not the only one. Tell us what you base this on.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Look, there's been some informal outreaches in the past. I mean,
I'm obviously not at Rugby Australia now, but after we
signed Joseph, who I think is once in a generation
talent and he's already paid for himself at RA might
mind you. But it was interesting that the Nine network
went to Clear at the time that we signed Sowali
(04:10):
and they said, what do you think? And I think
most of the market observers felt the Cleary would have
sort of rejected the idea that if you look at
the tape at the time, he was sort of open
to the idea of moving to rugby because his father
coached the Warriors, as you would know, and he grew
up playing rugby and those two guys are classic examples
(04:32):
of players that have a rugby heritage who loved the game.
And I guess the backdrop that I sort of need
to continue to explain to Kiwi's is that the AFL
and the NRL are really big sports, much larger here,
and so the acquisitions of Joseph and potentially others was
(04:53):
always based around can they add value to the Wallabies
and our high performance program. But from a secondary point
of view, like you wouldn't believe the fever pitch excitement
with Joseph starting this week, the media has been about
here and you'll have all these rugby league people who
don't watch rugby anymore. He'll be tuning in to see
(05:13):
him play, and they'll go and watch him play and
it'll drive sponsorship and viewership and ultimately, the plan at
the time when we signed him was to sort of
create momentum in the sport so that when we renewed
the media righte deal, that we'll be able to get more.
But you know, sadly I didn't make it. We didn't
get there. But I think Joseph would be a great
(05:35):
addition to the Wallaby team.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You're as certain that he's paid back the investment already.
What's that based on.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Well, look, don't forget that. You know there are already
players that are runing a million dollars plus within rugby.
I won't go into who they are. So there was
an incremental cost to get him across because he has
seen such a great prodigious talent. So the amount of
media coverage we've got, the focus on rugby as a sport,
(06:03):
and just the fact that he is a first class player.
So you know, my in my belief as was that
he will make a difference. And interestingly, you know I
still have friends in and around rugby and guys that
are actually playing for the Wallabies, and the anecdotal feedback
that we're getting in because he's such a sort of
versatile utility player, he's already lifting standards, certainly in the
(06:26):
back line because he comes with a big reputation. He's
tough as our boots and you know, even in the
training sessions, you know he could play inside, outside, center
of the wing or fallback and he's got a great boot.
So everyone I'm hearing is sort of lifting their came
a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
As far as money is concerned in numbers that way,
there's nothing solid that suggests he's dragging extra sponsorship in
that can be relied.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Upon, truly to say that, when I was at Rugby Australia,
I had a very close relationship with a number of
the sponsors and certainly some of some of the larger
ones thought it was such a great idea getting josephin,
so at the time it was supported by key sponsors,
(07:13):
and certainly I think the media. You know, since since
hesned every time we played in rugby league, the commentators
would often talk about the fact that it's making a
switch to rugby union and it's just going to drive viewership.
And again, if RA is smart about it, they'll be
able to crystallize more sponsorship out of the likes of
(07:33):
us like Joseph.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
What about the likes of Nathan Cleary if he would
actually do it or not? And could they afford to
do it, because I'm presuming everybody has a price, but
there's Rugby Australia flash enough to afford to chuck all
that money yet him do you think Hamish?
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Well if look, there is already adplicated budget towards players,
So what's been twisted and misreported is that Joseph's cost
was at the expense of a whole lot of other
Now we did pay an incremental amount based on you know,
(08:12):
you know, other players in the team, but the reality
is that small whole scheme of things. So just to
put it into context, when I started just after raylen
Castle left Rugby Australia during COVID, that first year I
was there, we lost over twenty five million, and three
years later we made a profit of over eight million
(08:34):
I think it was, and we cut thirty seven million
dollars worth of cost out of the organization in the
first year that I was there, So that was that
was the guarantee survival. So firstly, we knew what we
were doing from a financial point of view. Secondly, you're
already paying players, so I was firmly of the view
(08:55):
you've got to get a handful of superstars in there
because the Wallabies just aren't competitive against the ABS and
All South Africa, and we saw in the World Cup.
You know, whether you think you know Eddie was a
good choice or not, he's got a lot of blame
for it. But the reality is rugby in Australia has
underperformed for nearly two decades. We haven't won a World
(09:18):
Cup since nineteen ninety nine, we haven't won a Bledisloe
in twenty three years, and the system's broken and so
and teen you change the pathways, get better at recruitment.
Sientis the whole organization Australian rugby won't perform to the level.
We might win the odd game against the Ads, it'll
be great, but the bled Islow is no longer the
(09:39):
contest that it was, and so I'm kind of trying
to still it down a really fundamental sort of areas
and I just think the whole thing's broken and sort of.
So to answer your question, yes, you know, I think
what Nathan needs to My understanding is, you know, he's
won four Premierships with Henrith. A fifth would be nice,
(10:00):
but he's still an immortal and he's achieved everything that
he would want to achieve. And I think the lure
of a home World Cup in Australia and potentially playing lines.
I don't know if he's available. My sense is that
if you could tick that off in your career, that's
pretty pretty special, certainly a home World Cup. So you know,
(10:20):
I don't know, I don't think there's an appetite an
hour to go after him, but I certainly would have.
I would have gone after him half if I was
still there.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Amos mcclennan are always good speaking to you, my friend.
Thank you very much for making yourself available for your
time and your expertise to look after yourself.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Choose you two. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
This is Sports Fix, your daily dose of sports news,
news talks.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Hev no doubt the black Caps have poked the bear,
that bear being the Indian cricket team, who are far
from happy after being well beaten in the first Test
of the three match series. Tomorrow, the series moves to Pune.
It is a ground where only two Test matches have
(11:02):
been played previously. One of them was Australia giving the
Indians and after thresh by three hundred and thirty runs
after the pitch deteriorated beyond the pall. The second was
a master class from Veric Koli. He managed to score
himself a double century India with victory there. So what
are the Indians going to prepare for the New Zealanders
(11:24):
after that fright, after that scare, after that slap that
they received in the first test. It's going to be
rolled black mud, it's going to be slow, it's going
to be low, and all things said and done, it
will appeal to the spin attack of the Indians. The toss,
I believe, and the winning of is paramount. If you
(11:46):
win the toss, you'll insert yourself into bat and you
run from there. But that happened in the first Test too.
The winning of the toss was parliament. Did it actually matter?
Did it sway the result either way? I think we
saw a New Zealantine that refused to be bullied by
the Indian big kid on the block and showed that
(12:07):
with dedication. It showed that with a huge attitude, and
it showed that with a steadfast inability to fall over
in the face of your opposition, India can be beaten
at home. India. Of course, the poked bear will be enraged,
the fans will be enraged. Still looking for a position
at the top table in the World Test Championship Final,
(12:30):
the pressure is all on the Indians. So if you
respond with rage in any situation, nine times out of
ten it blows up in your face. New Zealand have
the advantage going into this test. You've got an unsettled,
angry Indian side, desperate for success in front of a
crowd that really will not accept any more defeats at home.
(12:55):
This has got epic written all over it. I suppose
we'll find out at the end of the five days
just how right or indeed wrong I've been.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The chamber is now in session on Sportsfax.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
In the chamber is myself and Alex Palell, the digital
editor for Sport and New Zell and Herald, join us
to throw around the topics. De jure if you will,
Hello to you, sir.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
If that's how we're going about it.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I'm sorry about the friend willn't know where that came from.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Let's get away from France and go to Spain. Not Buffalona,
but Valinthia, because apparently that's where maybe it's going to
go next. As the arguments continue, the propositions continue. Valencia
have held it twice before. Does this tickle your fancy, Alex?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
I mean, look, let's let's not sugarcoat this. I don't
think it's going to Valencia. Just because they've said Dave
won it doesn't mean it's happening. I'd love a toilet
made at a solid gold doesn't mean I get one.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Why would you want a toilet made at an You
forget about it?
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Cloud No, I who knows? I mean this is now
a process for ten years Eland and for Grantdalton to
work out. If Valencia make the best offer, then sure
that's where it will go. I don't see what it
comes down to, isn't it. I don't see Valencia having
enough money to compete with the Middle East, and that
that's the short of it.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
So Barcelona don't want it anymore. But Varlength you said
you we'll have a crack because what they've had it
twice before?
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Was it tw seventy ten?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And it didn't work particularly well for Team New Zealand
now did it?
Speaker 5 (14:22):
No?
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Well, I mean there you go.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
That's the reason alone.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
Don't go there.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's gone down to how much coin have you got?
And they made it perfectly clear you can. We had
the thunder of the team talking about how Sadi's this
and Sadi's that, it's really developing, it's the cutting edge
of this and blah blah blah. If you got one
key point, they'll offer a lot of money and that's
that's all it comes down to. We know that. Now,
(14:47):
don't pee on our head and tell us it's raining
because it's warm and it stinks. Fair fair, So yeah
with me, it's not happening.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
I'd be very surprised if it happens.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
We'll find out in time, I'm sure, and we'll talk
about it and it will be sailed in the middle
of the night and it won't get much traction. But
you know, that's what you paid for. I'm sorry, that's
what someone else paid for. Well, grant, so deal with it.
Let's move to another story around. Hamish mcclennan's, the former
chair of Australian Rugby, has been on the program talking
(15:20):
about the possibility of last suing one Nathan Cleary to
try and lift the Wallabies out of this what twenty
year funk they've been in for you does it work?
Do you like this concept?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (15:34):
I don't think Rugby Australia gets out of the hole
it's in by nicking players from other codes. I think
they really need to go back to the drawing board
and build from the ground up. Nothing grows from the
top down. You've got to grow from the ground up,
and that's Rugby Australia's problem is that they don't have
any good players coming through.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
What their drawing board they've been working on for two
decades and it's not worked. Is this a way of
encouraging that generation to maybe look toward rugby as opposed
to rugby le Basically, can they capitalize on a move
if indeed it does happen? This is just floating around
at moment.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Alex look, I don't know. As the long and short
of it, everything Rugby Australia has tried has failed.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Jones work, didn't it?
Speaker 6 (16:15):
Eddie Jones did not work. Dave Rennie even didn't work.
Joe Schmidt. You'd argue maybe isn't working. They've got a
Lions tour next year, They've got a World Cup in
tween twenty seven. It just feels like they're throwing excrement
at the wall and hoping something stacks.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Let's face it, with World Cup though on Australian shores
in two years time. And you look at Cleary, here's
a guy that's pretty much one everything there needs to
be one. That may be a great opportunity for him
to do something magnificent for rugby, for a global game.
I'm sure a paycheck will help. But it's got to
be more than just that.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Don't they Like you say, Nathan Claire is a winner
all he's known with the Panthersa's success five Grand Finals
in a row, four of them wins. Do you think
he's going to want to go somewhere if you cannot
guarantee him they're going to win?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Isn't it a challenge?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Though?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Don't athletes like challenges?
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I mean some do? But also why would you risk it?
Why would you risk your legacy?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
He's already got a legacy though surely he's already Nathan clear,
he's done. As you said, I've done all of this.
Do I need to prove anything else in this game?
Speaker 6 (17:14):
I mean, I'd like to see him maybe dominate the
state of origin a bit more than he has, fair call.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
And I suppose when you look at the long list
of league players that have been reeled into rugby union,
it's hardly glowing, is it exactly?
Speaker 6 (17:27):
It's I mean, you look at Sonny Bill Williams did
it very well.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Sonny B. Williams is an absolute freak and he had
a rugby background.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Right but right, you think back to the two thousands
when they had what Wende Sailor and Lottie to Kerry
and Matt Rogers and they it went okay, I've had
the game's very different now.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And we've got other examples over here with Benji Marshall,
which was a disaster. You've got Roger ty Varsa Sheck
and here's the discussion. Did he get into the All
Blacks on his quality in the midfield or again to
the All Blacks? Because ms at our thought bitter justify
this expenditure.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Roger two of usas Sheck was a risk worth taking.
You know, let's not better onund the bush. We know
how good Roger to of USA Sheck is. You know
if he bought half of what he was at the
Warriors and the Root and to the All Blacks, he
would have taken it.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Well, here's a case of wrong position. And if the
Australians can learn anything here, if we do manage to
get a guy like Clary, stick him in a position
where he'll be comfortable, where he doesn't require two or
three years to understand the vagaries of that possei, throwing
him in at twelve or thirteen will be chaos.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
Right, And that's the thing. If they're going to get
Nathan Clari. It's got to be now. It's got to
be right now, this exact second you're listening to this,
because otherwise he won't be ready.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And Israel Phillou there was an experience that will blew
up in the face. But that was beyond the actual
playing on the field, because he's a magnificent football regardless
of the code, the AFL, rugby League or rugby union.
They just had some other issues that maybe they could
learn something from.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Maybe we should move on.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Maybe we should. This gets to our final subject. Two
new guys in the black Caps. There's a really interesting
Black Cap side because a number of the superstars of
this Black Cap side been dragged home. It's like get
ready for the England Test series. That I understand, but
I don't know if the shrill Lunkans will be particular
happy that all of the draw cards aren't there anymore.
(19:12):
And look, there's still some good players they've reeled and
a couple of super young guys too. But are you
but uncomfortable with this or this is just creckit?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Now?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
You know guys are going to play here, they're going
to play there. They're going to have to manage themselves
to go and play in the IPL. They have to
manage themselves to go and play TESTA. When was the
last time we finished a home somewhere with our top
team pre covid genuinely, yeah, you know so that. I mean, look,
it's great because you've got guys like Nathan Smith and
Mitche coming through. One of the big criticisms about the
black Caps since that twenty twenty one World Test Championship
(19:41):
win as they have not built for the future. They've
had to play for now. And I guess if we're
seeing the guys like this come through and get a chance,
I'm all for it.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And the guys like O'Rourke who will be resting before
the Test series understandable, but there is that next tiers
a matter of giving them that opportunity.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
I mean, who are the black Caps best performers in
that first Test went against India, Ratchen, Rivendra Willow, Rourke,
the young guys.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You're missing an older guy who's going to be playing
again in place of Williamson and will Young.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Well Young very good as well, But I don't think
history will remember that as Will Young's test.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
No, I probably right on Matt, So just quickly before
we let you go. What do we know about these
two guys who've got a guy's what a fast medium
all round it, handy with the bat and a wiki keeper. Yeah,
there you go.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Nathan Smith was New Zealand's Domestic Throat of the Year
last year. Didn't get a contract when they were initially
handed out, has got one since when Williamson, Ferguson, Milne,
Conway Allenor gave them back. Very good potential around it
could I mean he wants to be a number seven
in Test cricket and the sort of the colnder gone
home roll that might be a place to hire you
a good solid number eight who takes what it's a
good bat. Mitch Hay is a work keeper, so I'm
(20:49):
very interested in how he goes in the series because
fifty over cricket is not where he's been best. He's
been best in Red Book cricket. Tom Blundell needs to
really look over his shoulder the summer because Mitch Hay
is coming for that spot.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And that's what you want, competition for places and hopefully
that's what this gives us. Alex Powell digital Edits of
Sport from his Zealand held for your time as always.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Anytime mate, dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pine and Darcy Waltergrave.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Where it is all wrapped up like a bought one,
complete with the bow on top. My name's Darcy Watergrave.
That is Sportsfix for another edition Wednesday, twenty third of
October twenty twenty four. If it's more sport you desire,
so our Sports Talk Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday evenings
between seven and eight with myself or Jason Pine. And
if you want to do it all again in the
(21:39):
weekend midday to three, it is Weekend Sports Saturday and
Sunday with Jason Pine. You look after yourself, have a
wonderful rest of your day and we'll catch you again
tomorrow here on the Fix.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is Sportsfix howard By News Talks d B.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Here we go again, Welcome on to the Sports Fix,
your daily home of all of our big sports stories.
My name is Darcy Walter Grave and coming up in
this episode the twenty third of October twenty twenty four. First,
I'll have a chat with the former chair of Rugby
Australia Hamish mcclennan, after his assertion that Rugby Australia should
(00:43):
be chasing league superstars, in particular one Nathan Cleary. This
is on the back of the presumed success of Joseph
su are Lee, a man that was roped in by
Hamish McLennan when he was the chair of Rugby Australia.
Up after that, I've got some opinion on the second
test of three. The Indians are still in shock after
(01:07):
getting beaten by New Zealand in that first test. What
has to happen, What are the conditions going to be
like and what happens when you poke an Indian bear?
Beyond that will be joined by Alex Powe. He's a
digital sports editor for New Zealand Herald. As we'll toss
around some of the big sporting topics of the day.
That's our plan. Let's get amongst in other news. Let's
(01:32):
take a quick look now, al more's the point. Listen
now to Sport of a Day. Qui debut worth the
wait for Jordan Riki. The twenty four year old second
rower has been listed on the interchange for Sunday Specific
Championship Test against Australia in his hometown of Ututa, christ Church.
I think he was named in the New Zealand squad
(01:52):
back in twenty twenty three, but he withdrew late after
picking up a shoulder injury playing for the Broncos in
the NRL Grand Final.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Extremely guarded to miss out last year to go strain
the surgery.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
So I'm hugely great form, blessed to be able to
be back in the and pil.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Of the boys.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And you know you probably couldn't write a better script really.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Australian Diamonds defender Courtney Bruce is confidence she'll have the
better of Silver Fern shooter Grace Wicki this time around
in Neple's Constellation Cup. The twenty two year old Kiwi
shot fifty goals from fifty three attempts in the opener,
with the veteran Ossie nabbing only one intercept.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Grace had a great game the other night and then
just watch some footage back and I was.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Very close to a load of the balls.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
So hopefully just a few extra jumps in in the
move will help us get up to them.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Mitch Hayes credited his Canterbury teammates for accelerating his progression
into the Black Caps. The wicked keeper bat has received
a maiden call up for a limited overs series in
Sri Lanka next month.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Such a good environment we have here where guys are
so open to sharing their knowledge and a lot of
questions get asked at training of the guys who have
played the international level, Guys like Henry Nichol has been
amazing for me just to talk to about what it
takes for that next year beating of it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
We've got just the ticket. It's Sports fix by News Talks.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is he we'll join now by Hams Clennon. He is
a former chair of Rugby Australia. As we look at
some comments that he made in Sydney Morning Herald around
the possibility of attacking rugby league for more great players,
saying they bring bums on seat. Hamish of course, was
behind the acquisition of Joseph so Lee for what was it,
(03:33):
five million dollars and thinks it's done big things and
there's more to come. Hamoush, welcome to the show. Great
to have you on again. Interesting words, Nathan Cleary, You've
got to target on his back and I'm sure he's
not the only one. Tell us what you base this on.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Look, there's been some informal outreaches in the past. I mean,
I'm obviously not at Rugby Australia now, but after we
signed Joseph, who I think is once in a generation
talent and he's already paid for himself at RA might
mind you. But it was interesting that the Nine network
went to Clear at the time that we signed Sowali
(04:10):
and they said, what do you think? And I think
most of the market observers felt the Cleary would have
sort of rejected the idea that if you look at
the tape at the time, he was sort of open
to the idea of moving to rugby because his father
coached the Warriors, as you would know, and he grew
up playing rugby and those two guys are classic examples
(04:32):
of players that have a rugby heritage who loved the game.
And I guess the backdrop that I sort of need
to continue to explain to Kiwi's is that the AFL
and the NRL are really big sports, much larger here,
and so the acquisitions of Joseph and potentially others was
(04:53):
always based around can they add value to the Wallabies
and our high performance program. But from a secondary point
of view, like you wouldn't believe the fever pitch excitement
with Joseph starting this week, the media has been about
here and you'll have all these rugby league people who
don't watch rugby anymore. He'll be tuning in to see
(05:13):
him play, and they'll go and watch him play and
it'll drive sponsorship and viewership and ultimately, the plan at
the time when we signed him was to sort of
create momentum in the sport so that when we renewed
the media righte deal, that we'll be able to get more.
But you know, sadly I didn't make it. We didn't
get there. But I think Joseph would be a great
(05:35):
addition to the Wallaby team.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You're as certain that he's paid back the investment already.
What's that based on.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Well, look, don't forget that. You know there are already
players that are runing a million dollars plus within rugby.
I won't go into who they are. So there was
an incremental cost to get him across because he has
seen such a great prodigious talent. So the amount of
media coverage we've got, the focus on rugby as a sport,
(06:03):
and just the fact that he is a first class player.
So you know, my in my belief as was that
he will make a difference. And interestingly, you know I
still have friends in and around rugby and guys that
are actually playing for the Wallabies, and the anecdotal feedback
that we're getting in because he's such a sort of
versatile utility player, he's already lifting standards, certainly in the
(06:26):
back line because he comes with a big reputation. He's
tough as our boots and you know, even in the
training sessions, you know he could play inside, outside, center
of the wing or fallback and he's got a great boot.
So everyone I'm hearing is sort of lifting their came
a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
As far as money is concerned in numbers that way,
there's nothing solid that suggests he's dragging extra sponsorship in
that can be relied.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Upon, truly to say that, when I was at Rugby Australia,
I had a very close relationship with a number of
the sponsors and certainly some of some of the larger
ones thought it was such a great idea getting josephin,
so at the time it was supported by key sponsors,
(07:13):
and certainly I think the media. You know, since since
hesned every time we played in rugby league, the commentators
would often talk about the fact that it's making a
switch to rugby union and it's just going to drive viewership.
And again, if RA is smart about it, they'll be
able to crystallize more sponsorship out of the likes of
(07:33):
us like Joseph.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
What about the likes of Nathan Cleary if he would
actually do it or not? And could they afford to
do it, because I'm presuming everybody has a price, but
there's Rugby Australia flash enough to afford to chuck all
that money yet him do you think Hamish?
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Well if look, there is already adplicated budget towards players,
So what's been twisted and misreported is that Joseph's cost
was at the expense of a whole lot of other
Now we did pay an incremental amount based on you know,
(08:12):
you know, other players in the team, but the reality
is that small whole scheme of things. So just to
put it into context, when I started just after raylen
Castle left Rugby Australia during COVID, that first year I
was there, we lost over twenty five million, and three
years later we made a profit of over eight million
(08:34):
I think it was, and we cut thirty seven million
dollars worth of cost out of the organization in the
first year that I was there, So that was that
was the guarantee survival. So firstly, we knew what we
were doing from a financial point of view. Secondly, you're
already paying players, so I was firmly of the view
(08:55):
you've got to get a handful of superstars in there
because the Wallabies just aren't competitive against the ABS and
All South Africa, and we saw in the World Cup.
You know, whether you think you know Eddie was a
good choice or not, he's got a lot of blame
for it. But the reality is rugby in Australia has
underperformed for nearly two decades. We haven't won a World
(09:18):
Cup since nineteen ninety nine, we haven't won a Bledisloe
in twenty three years, and the system's broken and so
and teen you change the pathways, get better at recruitment.
Sientis the whole organization Australian rugby won't perform to the level.
We might win the odd game against the Ads, it'll
be great, but the bled Islow is no longer the
(09:39):
contest that it was, and so I'm kind of trying
to still it down a really fundamental sort of areas
and I just think the whole thing's broken and sort of.
So to answer your question, yes, you know, I think
what Nathan needs to My understanding is, you know, he's
won four Premierships with Henrith. A fifth would be nice,
(10:00):
but he's still an immortal and he's achieved everything that
he would want to achieve. And I think the lure
of a home World Cup in Australia and potentially playing lines.
I don't know if he's available. My sense is that
if you could tick that off in your career, that's
pretty pretty special, certainly a home World Cup. So you know,
(10:20):
I don't know, I don't think there's an appetite an
hour to go after him, but I certainly would have.
I would have gone after him half if I was
still there.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Amos mcclennan are always good speaking to you, my friend.
Thank you very much for making yourself available for your
time and your expertise to look after yourself.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Choose you two. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
This is Sports Fix, your daily dose of sports news,
news talks.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Hev no doubt the black Caps have poked the bear,
that bear being the Indian cricket team, who are far
from happy after being well beaten in the first Test
of the three match series. Tomorrow, the series moves to Pune.
It is a ground where only two Test matches have
(11:02):
been played previously. One of them was Australia giving the
Indians and after thresh by three hundred and thirty runs
after the pitch deteriorated beyond the pall. The second was
a master class from Veric Koli. He managed to score
himself a double century India with victory there. So what
are the Indians going to prepare for the New Zealanders
(11:24):
after that fright, after that scare, after that slap that
they received in the first test. It's going to be
rolled black mud, it's going to be slow, it's going
to be low, and all things said and done, it
will appeal to the spin attack of the Indians. The toss,
I believe, and the winning of is paramount. If you
(11:46):
win the toss, you'll insert yourself into bat and you
run from there. But that happened in the first Test too.
The winning of the toss was parliament. Did it actually matter?
Did it sway the result either way? I think we
saw a New Zealantine that refused to be bullied by
the Indian big kid on the block and showed that
(12:07):
with dedication. It showed that with a huge attitude, and
it showed that with a steadfast inability to fall over
in the face of your opposition, India can be beaten
at home. India. Of course, the poked bear will be enraged,
the fans will be enraged. Still looking for a position
at the top table in the World Test Championship Final,
(12:30):
the pressure is all on the Indians. So if you
respond with rage in any situation, nine times out of
ten it blows up in your face. New Zealand have
the advantage going into this test. You've got an unsettled,
angry Indian side, desperate for success in front of a
crowd that really will not accept any more defeats at home.
(12:55):
This has got epic written all over it. I suppose
we'll find out at the end of the five days
just how right or indeed wrong I've been.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The chamber is now in session on Sportsfax.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
In the chamber is myself and Alex Palell, the digital
editor for Sport and New Zell and Herald, join us
to throw around the topics. De jure if you will,
Hello to you, sir.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
If that's how we're going about it.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I'm sorry about the friend willn't know where that came from.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Let's get away from France and go to Spain. Not Buffalona,
but Valinthia, because apparently that's where maybe it's going to
go next. As the arguments continue, the propositions continue. Valencia
have held it twice before. Does this tickle your fancy, Alex?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
I mean, look, let's let's not sugarcoat this. I don't
think it's going to Valencia. Just because they've said Dave
won it doesn't mean it's happening. I'd love a toilet
made at a solid gold doesn't mean I get one.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Why would you want a toilet made at an You
forget about it?
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Cloud No, I who knows? I mean this is now
a process for ten years Eland and for Grantdalton to
work out. If Valencia make the best offer, then sure
that's where it will go. I don't see what it
comes down to, isn't it. I don't see Valencia having
enough money to compete with the Middle East, and that
that's the short of it.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
So Barcelona don't want it anymore. But Varlength you said
you we'll have a crack because what they've had it
twice before?
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Was it tw seventy ten?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And it didn't work particularly well for Team New Zealand
now did it?
Speaker 5 (14:22):
No?
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Well, I mean there you go.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
That's the reason alone.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
Don't go there.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's gone down to how much coin have you got?
And they made it perfectly clear you can. We had
the thunder of the team talking about how Sadi's this
and Sadi's that, it's really developing, it's the cutting edge
of this and blah blah blah. If you got one
key point, they'll offer a lot of money and that's
that's all it comes down to. We know that. Now,
(14:47):
don't pee on our head and tell us it's raining
because it's warm and it stinks. Fair fair, So yeah
with me, it's not happening.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
I'd be very surprised if it happens.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
We'll find out in time, I'm sure, and we'll talk
about it and it will be sailed in the middle
of the night and it won't get much traction. But
you know, that's what you paid for. I'm sorry, that's
what someone else paid for. Well, grant, so deal with it.
Let's move to another story around. Hamish mcclennan's, the former
chair of Australian Rugby, has been on the program talking
(15:20):
about the possibility of last suing one Nathan Cleary to
try and lift the Wallabies out of this what twenty
year funk they've been in for you does it work?
Do you like this concept?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (15:34):
I don't think Rugby Australia gets out of the hole
it's in by nicking players from other codes. I think
they really need to go back to the drawing board
and build from the ground up. Nothing grows from the
top down. You've got to grow from the ground up,
and that's Rugby Australia's problem is that they don't have
any good players coming through.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
What their drawing board they've been working on for two
decades and it's not worked. Is this a way of
encouraging that generation to maybe look toward rugby as opposed
to rugby le Basically, can they capitalize on a move
if indeed it does happen? This is just floating around
at moment.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Alex look, I don't know. As the long and short
of it, everything Rugby Australia has tried has failed.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Jones work, didn't it?
Speaker 6 (16:15):
Eddie Jones did not work. Dave Rennie even didn't work.
Joe Schmidt. You'd argue maybe isn't working. They've got a
Lions tour next year, They've got a World Cup in
tween twenty seven. It just feels like they're throwing excrement
at the wall and hoping something stacks.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Let's face it, with World Cup though on Australian shores
in two years time. And you look at Cleary, here's
a guy that's pretty much one everything there needs to
be one. That may be a great opportunity for him
to do something magnificent for rugby, for a global game.
I'm sure a paycheck will help. But it's got to
be more than just that.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Don't they Like you say, Nathan Claire is a winner
all he's known with the Panthersa's success five Grand Finals
in a row, four of them wins. Do you think
he's going to want to go somewhere if you cannot
guarantee him they're going to win?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Isn't it a challenge?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Though?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Don't athletes like challenges?
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I mean some do? But also why would you risk it?
Why would you risk your legacy?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
He's already got a legacy though surely he's already Nathan clear,
he's done. As you said, I've done all of this.
Do I need to prove anything else in this game?
Speaker 6 (17:14):
I mean, I'd like to see him maybe dominate the
state of origin a bit more than he has, fair call.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
And I suppose when you look at the long list
of league players that have been reeled into rugby union,
it's hardly glowing, is it exactly?
Speaker 6 (17:27):
It's I mean, you look at Sonny Bill Williams did
it very well.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Sonny B. Williams is an absolute freak and he had
a rugby background.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Right but right, you think back to the two thousands
when they had what Wende Sailor and Lottie to Kerry
and Matt Rogers and they it went okay, I've had
the game's very different now.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And we've got other examples over here with Benji Marshall,
which was a disaster. You've got Roger ty Varsa Sheck
and here's the discussion. Did he get into the All
Blacks on his quality in the midfield or again to
the All Blacks? Because ms at our thought bitter justify
this expenditure.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Roger two of usas Sheck was a risk worth taking.
You know, let's not better onund the bush. We know
how good Roger to of USA Sheck is. You know
if he bought half of what he was at the
Warriors and the Root and to the All Blacks, he
would have taken it.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Well, here's a case of wrong position. And if the
Australians can learn anything here, if we do manage to
get a guy like Clary, stick him in a position
where he'll be comfortable, where he doesn't require two or
three years to understand the vagaries of that possei, throwing
him in at twelve or thirteen will be chaos.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
Right, And that's the thing. If they're going to get
Nathan Clari. It's got to be now. It's got to
be right now, this exact second you're listening to this,
because otherwise he won't be ready.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And Israel Phillou there was an experience that will blew
up in the face. But that was beyond the actual
playing on the field, because he's a magnificent football regardless
of the code, the AFL, rugby League or rugby union.
They just had some other issues that maybe they could
learn something from.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Maybe we should move on.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Maybe we should. This gets to our final subject. Two
new guys in the black Caps. There's a really interesting
Black Cap side because a number of the superstars of
this Black Cap side been dragged home. It's like get
ready for the England Test series. That I understand, but
I don't know if the shrill Lunkans will be particular
happy that all of the draw cards aren't there anymore.
(19:12):
And look, there's still some good players they've reeled and
a couple of super young guys too. But are you
but uncomfortable with this or this is just creckit?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Now?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
You know guys are going to play here, they're going
to play there. They're going to have to manage themselves
to go and play in the IPL. They have to
manage themselves to go and play TESTA. When was the
last time we finished a home somewhere with our top
team pre covid genuinely, yeah, you know so that. I mean, look,
it's great because you've got guys like Nathan Smith and
Mitche coming through. One of the big criticisms about the
black Caps since that twenty twenty one World Test Championship
(19:41):
win as they have not built for the future. They've
had to play for now. And I guess if we're
seeing the guys like this come through and get a chance,
I'm all for it.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And the guys like O'Rourke who will be resting before
the Test series understandable, but there is that next tiers
a matter of giving them that opportunity.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
I mean, who are the black Caps best performers in
that first Test went against India, Ratchen, Rivendra Willow, Rourke,
the young guys.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You're missing an older guy who's going to be playing
again in place of Williamson and will Young.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Well Young very good as well, But I don't think
history will remember that as Will Young's test.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
No, I probably right on Matt, So just quickly before
we let you go. What do we know about these
two guys who've got a guy's what a fast medium
all round it, handy with the bat and a wiki keeper. Yeah,
there you go.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Nathan Smith was New Zealand's Domestic Throat of the Year
last year. Didn't get a contract when they were initially
handed out, has got one since when Williamson, Ferguson, Milne,
Conway Allenor gave them back. Very good potential around it
could I mean he wants to be a number seven
in Test cricket and the sort of the colnder gone
home roll that might be a place to hire you
a good solid number eight who takes what it's a
good bat. Mitch Hay is a work keeper, so I'm
(20:49):
very interested in how he goes in the series because
fifty over cricket is not where he's been best. He's
been best in Red Book cricket. Tom Blundell needs to
really look over his shoulder the summer because Mitch Hay
is coming for that spot.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And that's what you want, competition for places and hopefully
that's what this gives us. Alex Powell digital Edits of
Sport from his Zealand held for your time as always.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Anytime mate, dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pine and Darcy Waltergrave.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Where it is all wrapped up like a bought one,
complete with the bow on top. My name's Darcy Watergrave.
That is Sportsfix for another edition Wednesday, twenty third of
October twenty twenty four. If it's more sport you desire,
so our Sports Talk Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday evenings
between seven and eight with myself or Jason Pine. And
if you want to do it all again in the
(21:39):
weekend midday to three, it is Weekend Sports Saturday and
Sunday with Jason Pine. You look after yourself, have a
wonderful rest of your day and we'll catch you again
tomorrow here on the Fix.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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