September 15, 2025 • 20 mins
On Sports Fix with Jason Pine for 15th September 2025, the All Blacks suffered a record defeat on Saturday night going down 43-10 against the Springboks in Wellington.
There has been discussion around the captaincy and leadership of the team following the defeat, so Piney caught up with a former All Blacks captain Reuben Thorne to hear his thoughts on the captain's role in the team.
Piney speaks on the All Blacks' record defeat to the Springboks.
And Piney and NZ Herald sports journalist Elijah Fa'afiu talk about the All Blacks and the Warriors' defeats on Saturday night.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is Sportsfix Howard By News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi there and welcome into a new week and to
a British episode of the Sports Fixed podcast. We're here
in association with GJ. Gardner Holmes, New Zealand's most trusted homebuilder. Monday,
September fifteen, I'm Jason Pine. The Monday after one of
the most memorable, perhaps for the wrong reasons, rugby tests
in our history South Africa forty three the All Blacks ten.
(00:45):
It wasn't a dream or a nightmare. You did not
imagine it. It happened on Saturday night. So now where
to from here? For the All Blacks. The spotlight has
fallen on a few people since Saturday night. The coach
is won and the captain is another and that's where
we'd like to focus our attention on the Sports Fix
podcast today. Scott Barrett as All Blacks captain. His match
(01:08):
interview I think annoyed a few people. There weren't too
many shows of passion in there. Some cliches used and look,
Scott Barrett isn't the most articulate of public speakers. But
is that necessarily important or actually is it more important
what he's like and how influential he is inside the
team environment. A man who's warn the armband for the
(01:29):
All Blacks. Reuben Thorn going to join us to chat
about that, Elijah Who and I will kick around that
All Blacks result and the NRL finals as well. In
the chamber, I've got a few more thoughts on the
All Blacks as well, plus the latest and sports news,
so let's get into it. In other news, let's get
underway with a look at some of the big sports
stories around today. Oblique Seville has become the first Jamaican
(01:51):
male since Usain Bolt to win a world championship one
hundred meter title at the World Track and Field Champs
in Tokyo this morning. His time, they're away. It's a
decent start on aisles, but not a brilliant one. Thompson's
in the driving sea here, but watch savent On in
their side.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
He's us a close savelle for Thompson.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's a Jamaican ron too here. Oblique Seville and Kishane
Thompson one and two on the podium. The Walter Spanyar
Cycling Grand Tour has come to a premature end in Madrid.
A pro Palestinian protest has caused the disruption with around
fifty seven kilometers to go. Is such a shame that
this race is now coming to a standstill and I
(02:31):
think the riders may well unfortunately have something to say.
And in football's Manchester, Derby City have snapped a two
game losing streak while leaving their crosstown rivals Manchester United
with just one win from their first four league matches
of the season.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Rochester City looking for the third golt bad two Carls
thriving one Chester City three you Chessea United at.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Now dissecting the sporting agenda, It's Sportsfix with Jason Bene.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
To the Sports Fixed podcast as we continue to pick
over the bones of what happened on Saturday night in Wellington,
a record Test defeat for the All Blacks, going down
forty three points to ten to South Africa. The focus
has fallen on a few different areas of the game
and a few different individuals, including the captain. Naturally enough,
(03:29):
Scott Barrett. Let's bring in a man who knows what
it's like to walk in those shoes or those boots.
Former All Blacks captain Ruben Thorn Rubin, I think a
lot of New Zealand rugby fans would like their captain
to be a bit more energetic, a bit more perhaps passionate.
And Scott Barrett isn't that guy as we know, isn't
(03:51):
necessarily important for the captain of the All Blacks to
be a vocal leader.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Well, look, it depends with it. I mean, I know
the focus is always on the captain more than other players,
but there's a number of very experienced leaders in that group. Now,
you know, you look at his brother Bowden, Geordie, they've
been around a while, Ardie, Savier, Cody Taylor. There's there's
a whole group of them that have a lot of test,
much experience who will be contributing, and they'll have different
(04:19):
roles on the field. You know, in many ways, Scott's
the face of it, but all of those guys are
involved in that leadership and decision making part of the game,
and particularly the I guess the game management is often
not the captain, particularly if he's in a position like
Scott's where he's head down in the scrum. You are
(04:40):
relying on some of these other key guys to make
good decisions around how you manage to manage the game
and manage the field. So yeah, it's easy to poke
the finger at one person and say, well I don't
like a style, but you know, in my experience, there's
generally a whole group involved you in that leadership environment,
and you know they'll be working pretty hard to try
and fix and find some solutions.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
As you say, though, Rubin, he is the public face.
I guess he's the one who does the post match interview.
He's the one who has the sea alongside his name.
Is it important that he presents well to the rugby
publican situations like this, Yeah, well I.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Think it is. I mean, he has to try to
speak well. He's going to be be honest and be himself,
you know, And he's obviously not a really you know,
the big talker or anything like that. You know, he
sort of leads by example and obviously prefers to check
quietly with his teammates and work with them in a
(05:40):
different way. But there's nothing wrong with that. But you
know the public will expect him to front up at
certain times and deliver the answers they're.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Looking for and and do you think that there is
a danger that if he doesn't do that? And I'm
not sure if you're sure the postmatch interview on TV
on Saturday night, but it was you know that there
wasn't a lot to hang on to. I don't think
for rugby fans it's I guess, do we do need
our captain to be as angry as we are when
things don't go you know, the All Blacks way? Or
(06:13):
is that not the best approach?
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Oh, it's very hard in the heat at the moment
straight after a game, when you get a camera and
you're coming up to you and morning answers immediately post match.
It's always a difficult situation, particularly when you have been
on the end of a loss like that. You know,
and he will need time to reflect on it and
they'll they'll look back very closely through what they've got.
But you know, to expect them to front up and
(06:38):
be okay to have answers straight away and articulate that
really clearly straight after a game, it's pretty challenging. So
I think we give him some space, give the team
time to sort of look at it. And you know,
I wouldn't think it's it's not him in my view.
He's been playing well, he's doing his job, he's getting
(06:59):
on with things. You know, I think there are probably
other issues within the team that need fixing, and you know,
he's just one part of it.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Do you think the captain sees such comfortably on his shoulders.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Well, he's done a good job at super rugby level,
you know, and and him and Raiser obviously have a good,
strong relationship. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I haven't
spoken to him personally about it. I've watched him again
at super rugby level, never in the orbacks environment. I've
seen him at super rugby level, and he's you know,
he's very clear about what he expects from his players,
(07:33):
and he speaks well to the team and you know,
they certainly respect them. So I think, yeah, I think
he's more than capable of doing it. But as I said,
I think there are other issues with the all decks team,
and you know, just the depth and the talent that
we've got at the moment, and I think there are
other things going on that that just are making a
(07:53):
very challenging at the moment. And if you look at
the spring box on the other side of it, you
know that the depth and talent that they have currently,
it's just far more.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Than what we have on the field. How challenging is
it to to make decisions in the heat of the battle.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
It can be difficult, especially when you're under pressure against
a quality team like the spring Boks. I mean they
were winning keyomes at set Peace and obviously the aerial battle.
So when you go into a game with you know,
they would have had clear tactics going in and when
things don't start to work, everybody talks about having a
Plan B, but sometimes Plans A, Plans B and Plans
(08:34):
C can all be disfused by quality side, So then
it comes down to the bettle of physicality and willpower
and other things. So, yeah, it is difficult, and that's
when he's got to rely on that wider leadership group.
You know, they've got to be on the field problem
solving together and looking for answers.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And you know you were renowned for doing a lot
of the work and the type spaces. How heavily did
you rely on others who had their eyes up perhaps
more than you were able to because of your role.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Yeah, a lot. I mean you do a lot of
your your technical and technical planning before the game, and
then when you're in the game, you get down and
you do your job, and you've got to be aware
of what's going on around you and be technically aware
of of things. But you do rely on key guys
at nine and ten and fifteen and even depending on
(09:25):
your position, the other loose forwards to some extent to
see pictures that you sometimes can't see if you've got
your head buried. You know, those guys have to make
those decisions. And as I say, you've done a lot
of the planning and prep around that before you go
out on the field. So and you're also relying on
the coaches to send down the right messages, know what
(09:46):
they are seeing in the game, and any adjustments that
you need to make that has to come from from
the coaching box, which often has a different perspective from
what you're seeing on the field yourself. So you know,
there's a whole combination of things here that go on
for a captain, and you've got to be open to
all of them and try and make decisions pretty quickly
in the need of the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Fascinating times ahead, indeed, Ruben, thanks so much for landing
us your time and you're experts. On the Sports Fix podcast,
Ruben Thorn, former All Blacks captain, with.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Us dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's SPORTSFX with Jason Vine.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Just a few more thoughts from me on Saturday night's
test in Wellington or Black South Africa in case you'd
missed at first things first, huge congratulations to South Africa.
What a performance from them, and in particular that second
half performance. That was as good a forty minutes as
I can remember from any team who has come to
(10:41):
our shores. Maybe ever they were just on another level
and the All Blacks simply had no answers to that. Look,
we all know that sometimes you just get beaten by
a better team. That happens. You hold your hands up
and say, look, we gave absolutely everything and there was
nothing that we could do. No team in the world
would have lived with the spring box on Saturday night.
(11:02):
But the major concern was the manner of the defeat.
It was a second half. There's really no other way
of describing it. Thirty six unanswered points. Now, the word
capitulation is one that doesn't usually sits alongside the All
Blacks in a sentence, sometimes as I say another team
just as a worldie, and that's what the spring Box did.
(11:23):
But the base level required by the Black Jersey is
that you play until the end. And as those points
mounted up, it looked very much from the sideline as
though some of the men in the Black Jerseys gave up.
It looked as though they wanted to get down the
tunnel and get out of there. Now we're constantly told
by those inside the All Blacks environment that the Black
(11:45):
Jersey demands excellence, and that's what the legacy of this
team is built on. Care for the jersey, awareness of
its history, are desired to enhance it while you are
in possession of it, while very few players enhance the
jersey on Saturday night. If we are looking, though, for
a shred of consolation from all this, we can perhaps
get it from what happened at Albany in twenty seventeen.
(12:06):
The All Blacks beat South Africa fifty seven nil that night.
You'll remember two years later South Africa were World champions,
and four years after that they were World champions again.
The All Blacks now can only do one thing and
that is used Saturday nights as motivation as fuel. They
have to remember what it felt like standing there on
(12:27):
the grass on Saturday night watching South Africa take the
Freedom Cup and celebrate one of their greatest victories. They
must use that the All Blacks, to drive them on
and to make sure they never ever, ever, ever feel
that way again.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
The Chamber is now in session on Sportsfix.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You're listening to the Sports Fix podcast, and into the
Chamber we go. Monday's Chamber, the People's Chamber. Elijah Fuel
joins us. What a we can Elijah, I guess we
have to start with the All Blacks. I've heard a
lot of views, haven't heard yours. What's resonating inside your
mind as you as you think back forty eight hours
or so?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
I mean, what can I say that's appropriate for on air?
Is probably one thinking Heidi. Yeah, it was a tough
watch on Saturday night, probably one of the more embarrassing
losses for the All Blacks and losing by thirty three
points on your home's Surfers. Yeah, that's a very rough performance,
particularly in that second half. I'm not sure what happened
at halftime. I think the spring Box. In the first
(13:28):
half they had their chances but failed to really capitalize
on them. But I think in the second half they've
really pulled through and executed and I've never seen well
it's been a while really since I've seen the All
backs get sliped up like that by their back line.
And yeah, for the All Blacks, the woes around the
set piece, the scrum and the line out, particularly when
(13:51):
Brody McAllister came on not pointing the finger at him,
but I think there was a sort of lack of
cohesion in that particular facet of the game and those
high ball struggles they're still hanging around as well, so
plenty the work on, particularly with the Wallabies coming to
Eden Park next.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And I think that's the problem, isn't it. If it
was just one thing, you know, if it was just
the line out or just the scrum, or just the
high ball or something similar, then they could focus a
lot of their energy on fixing that thing. But you're right,
there's a lot of things and raise I said afterwards, look,
we don't want to go chasing everything in the quest
to improve this, but they have to look a lot
of areas just on that line out, and I think
(14:30):
the biggest turning point of the game for me, it
was on the ar Mark there's seventeen to ten down
the All Blacks. They're on their own line defending a
line out they know South Africa will contest. There's a
rookie hooker playing in Justice second Test, biggest lineout, thriou
his life, and they call some complicated move that has
jumpers going up and down the line, a bit of misdirection,
(14:52):
a little bit of sort of faking here and there,
and Brody McAllister, I mean through no follow zone read
just throws it straight to South Africa. Scott Barrett's got
a take ownership of that and just go to the
front and call it to himself, doesn't he exactly?
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Particularly in a situation like that where you've got an
experienced hooker like Rody McAllister, you have the really simple fire.
In those situations are I'm not sure if you're trying
to play sort of forty chess or something against the Springboks,
but there was really no need, you know, Scott Baronies
to take charge there. Caller Zone number helped Brodie mcal
stay out a little bit. Situations like those where you
have to understand the personnel you're working with and sort
(15:26):
of simplify it to make it a lot easier. So
that was definitely one situation where the All Blacks are
lacked an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Glimmers of hope around personnel. And if we stay with Hawker,
Cody Taylor presumably will pass his HIA protocols and be
available for the first Bladerslow Cup Test at Eden Park.
And we were told yesterday that Cam Royguard will also
be back, so at hooker and half back we'll have
our number ones, and not just our number ones, but
our clear number ones. Because I think of this year
(15:54):
as a shown as anything, it's that there's a massive
gap from Taylor back to the rest and from roy
Guard back to the rest, isn't there?
Speaker 6 (16:00):
Yeah, definitely, And the returns of Cody and Cam are
going to be huge, and particularly Cortez as well. If
Cortez is able to play in a couple of weeks
at Eden Park. We need those guys and those players
like Cody and Cam are going to make a huge
difference against the Wallaby side that has shown a lot
of rejuvenation this season under Joe Schmid's and yes it's
(16:23):
created the results having gone their way. They've had two
wins and two losses, but everyone else in the Rugby
Championship has as well, which has created an exciting contest.
But the Wallaby is they're going to be hungry and
they're gonna be looking to end that streak at at
Eden Park in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I still think we'll win. That's the crazy thing, you know.
After a thirty three point shell acking, I still think
there'll be a response and we'll win an eden Park.
Maybe because it's Edon Park, who knows, but you're right.
The Australians will be watching from the other side of
the Tasman and preparing for a massive couple of matches
where they'll believe they can they can get their Blitterlow
Cup back. To do that, they've got to break the
(16:57):
Eden Park curse, of course, don't they. They've got to
come to Eden Park and win in a couple of weeks,
so they'll be focusing all of their energy on that.
The Warriors season came to an end on Saturday nights,
slightly earlier then the All Blacks game going down to
the Panthers, which I think most neutral observers anyway predicted
would happen given everything Elijah, the departures of some key
(17:19):
players at the end of last season, the injuries to
key players during the season, the fact that the Warriors
were thirteenth last season, had a terrible start to their
campaign in Vegas. Is hosting a finals game actually not
about outcome?
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Yeah, I think given what you've just mentioned around, I
think the injuries the season was costly for the Warriors.
Losing two of your best players and Luke Metcalfe and
Mitch Barnett does not help at all. I guess the
rotation at center, where you know, Rocky Berry and ali
Leah Tower couldn't catch a break with their injuries, and
they had to bring in players like Kirk cape Well
and Lekuhalesima and Charles NK Coxton and moving them around
(17:56):
into that position didn't help things either. So I think
given what you know, what the Warriors were given, I think, yeah,
a home final was probably the best outcome. I do
think it was opportunity though that they didn't finish in
the top four this season. They spent most of the
season in the top four, and I think the last
couple of months, you know, really lacked that consistency and
(18:17):
there was that poor execution, lapses in concentration that saw
them slip down the ladder. So I think a lot
of it's a season of what IFFs, but I think
it's definitely a lot of promise heading into next season.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, I think they are where they are at the moment.
They're a finals team. I think that's probably true of
a lot of teams in the camp, even though who
didn't make the eight, But they're not a top four
team just yet. Ironically enough, the Panthers who didn't finish
in the top four looked every inch are contender. Even
though they finished seventh. They could still win.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
It, couldn't they They still can, I think. I mean,
I'll give credit to the Warriors because Warriors actually played
really well. It was probably one of their better performances
over the last couple of months. They brought an intensity
that had been missing the last couple of months, and
I think they really had a lot of opportunities there
to the top of the Panthers an end that four
year dynasty. But yeah, the Panthers, they showed their class
(19:08):
in there and that is going to help them big
time moving forward. And yeah, yeah, I think the Panthers
are definitely a huge chance, but there's a lot of
contenders there. The Storm and the Broncos and now they're
going to be able to go. The Panthers are going
going to be going up against the Bulldogs, and the
Raiders are there as well. So a lot of contenders
there for their NRAL Premiership.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Absolutely right and intriguing. Three more weekends of finals to come.
The Warriors lick their wounds, have their Mad Monday, presumably today,
and then get ready for twenty twenty six. Well that's
our Mad Monday people's Chamber. Elijah Good, the chat has
always Let's do it again next week.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
We'll do Thank you, pony.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
This is Sportsfix, your daily dose of sports news, cowing
by News Talks V.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that blows the final whistle on the Sports Fix
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(20:11):
three on Saturday and again on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is Sportsfix Howard By News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi there and welcome into a new week and to
a British episode of the Sports Fixed podcast. We're here
in association with GJ. Gardner Holmes, New Zealand's most trusted homebuilder. Monday,
September fifteen, I'm Jason Pine. The Monday after one of
the most memorable, perhaps for the wrong reasons, rugby tests
in our history South Africa forty three the All Blacks ten.
(00:45):
It wasn't a dream or a nightmare. You did not
imagine it. It happened on Saturday night. So now where
to from here? For the All Blacks. The spotlight has
fallen on a few people since Saturday night. The coach
is won and the captain is another and that's where
we'd like to focus our attention on the Sports Fix
podcast today. Scott Barrett as All Blacks captain. His match
(01:08):
interview I think annoyed a few people. There weren't too
many shows of passion in there. Some cliches used and look,
Scott Barrett isn't the most articulate of public speakers. But
is that necessarily important or actually is it more important
what he's like and how influential he is inside the
team environment. A man who's warn the armband for the
(01:29):
All Blacks. Reuben Thorn going to join us to chat
about that, Elijah Who and I will kick around that
All Blacks result and the NRL finals as well. In
the chamber, I've got a few more thoughts on the
All Blacks as well, plus the latest and sports news,
so let's get into it. In other news, let's get
underway with a look at some of the big sports
stories around today. Oblique Seville has become the first Jamaican
(01:51):
male since Usain Bolt to win a world championship one
hundred meter title at the World Track and Field Champs
in Tokyo this morning. His time, they're away. It's a
decent start on aisles, but not a brilliant one. Thompson's
in the driving sea here, but watch savent On in
their side.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
He's us a close savelle for Thompson.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's a Jamaican ron too here. Oblique Seville and Kishane
Thompson one and two on the podium. The Walter Spanyar
Cycling Grand Tour has come to a premature end in Madrid.
A pro Palestinian protest has caused the disruption with around
fifty seven kilometers to go. Is such a shame that
this race is now coming to a standstill and I
(02:31):
think the riders may well unfortunately have something to say.
And in football's Manchester, Derby City have snapped a two
game losing streak while leaving their crosstown rivals Manchester United
with just one win from their first four league matches
of the season.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Rochester City looking for the third golt bad two Carls
thriving one Chester City three you Chessea United at.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Now dissecting the sporting agenda, It's Sportsfix with Jason Bene.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
To the Sports Fixed podcast as we continue to pick
over the bones of what happened on Saturday night in Wellington,
a record Test defeat for the All Blacks, going down
forty three points to ten to South Africa. The focus
has fallen on a few different areas of the game
and a few different individuals, including the captain. Naturally enough,
(03:29):
Scott Barrett. Let's bring in a man who knows what
it's like to walk in those shoes or those boots.
Former All Blacks captain Ruben Thorn Rubin, I think a
lot of New Zealand rugby fans would like their captain
to be a bit more energetic, a bit more perhaps passionate.
And Scott Barrett isn't that guy as we know, isn't
(03:51):
necessarily important for the captain of the All Blacks to
be a vocal leader.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Well, look, it depends with it. I mean, I know
the focus is always on the captain more than other players,
but there's a number of very experienced leaders in that group. Now,
you know, you look at his brother Bowden, Geordie, they've
been around a while, Ardie, Savier, Cody Taylor. There's there's
a whole group of them that have a lot of test,
much experience who will be contributing, and they'll have different
(04:19):
roles on the field. You know, in many ways, Scott's
the face of it, but all of those guys are
involved in that leadership and decision making part of the game,
and particularly the I guess the game management is often
not the captain, particularly if he's in a position like
Scott's where he's head down in the scrum. You are
(04:40):
relying on some of these other key guys to make
good decisions around how you manage to manage the game
and manage the field. So yeah, it's easy to poke
the finger at one person and say, well I don't
like a style, but you know, in my experience, there's
generally a whole group involved you in that leadership environment,
and you know they'll be working pretty hard to try
and fix and find some solutions.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
As you say, though, Rubin, he is the public face.
I guess he's the one who does the post match interview.
He's the one who has the sea alongside his name.
Is it important that he presents well to the rugby
publican situations like this, Yeah, well I.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Think it is. I mean, he has to try to
speak well. He's going to be be honest and be himself,
you know, And he's obviously not a really you know,
the big talker or anything like that. You know, he
sort of leads by example and obviously prefers to check
quietly with his teammates and work with them in a
(05:40):
different way. But there's nothing wrong with that. But you
know the public will expect him to front up at
certain times and deliver the answers they're.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Looking for and and do you think that there is
a danger that if he doesn't do that? And I'm
not sure if you're sure the postmatch interview on TV
on Saturday night, but it was you know that there
wasn't a lot to hang on to. I don't think
for rugby fans it's I guess, do we do need
our captain to be as angry as we are when
things don't go you know, the All Blacks way? Or
(06:13):
is that not the best approach?
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Oh, it's very hard in the heat at the moment
straight after a game, when you get a camera and
you're coming up to you and morning answers immediately post match.
It's always a difficult situation, particularly when you have been
on the end of a loss like that. You know,
and he will need time to reflect on it and
they'll they'll look back very closely through what they've got.
But you know, to expect them to front up and
(06:38):
be okay to have answers straight away and articulate that
really clearly straight after a game, it's pretty challenging. So
I think we give him some space, give the team
time to sort of look at it. And you know,
I wouldn't think it's it's not him in my view.
He's been playing well, he's doing his job, he's getting
(06:59):
on with things. You know, I think there are probably
other issues within the team that need fixing, and you know,
he's just one part of it.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Do you think the captain sees such comfortably on his shoulders.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Well, he's done a good job at super rugby level,
you know, and and him and Raiser obviously have a good,
strong relationship. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I haven't
spoken to him personally about it. I've watched him again
at super rugby level, never in the orbacks environment. I've
seen him at super rugby level, and he's you know,
he's very clear about what he expects from his players,
(07:33):
and he speaks well to the team and you know,
they certainly respect them. So I think, yeah, I think
he's more than capable of doing it. But as I said,
I think there are other issues with the all decks team,
and you know, just the depth and the talent that
we've got at the moment, and I think there are
other things going on that that just are making a
(07:53):
very challenging at the moment. And if you look at
the spring box on the other side of it, you
know that the depth and talent that they have currently,
it's just far more.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Than what we have on the field. How challenging is
it to to make decisions in the heat of the battle.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
It can be difficult, especially when you're under pressure against
a quality team like the spring Boks. I mean they
were winning keyomes at set Peace and obviously the aerial battle.
So when you go into a game with you know,
they would have had clear tactics going in and when
things don't start to work, everybody talks about having a
Plan B, but sometimes Plans A, Plans B and Plans
(08:34):
C can all be disfused by quality side, So then
it comes down to the bettle of physicality and willpower
and other things. So, yeah, it is difficult, and that's
when he's got to rely on that wider leadership group.
You know, they've got to be on the field problem
solving together and looking for answers.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And you know you were renowned for doing a lot
of the work and the type spaces. How heavily did
you rely on others who had their eyes up perhaps
more than you were able to because of your role.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Yeah, a lot. I mean you do a lot of
your your technical and technical planning before the game, and
then when you're in the game, you get down and
you do your job, and you've got to be aware
of what's going on around you and be technically aware
of of things. But you do rely on key guys
at nine and ten and fifteen and even depending on
(09:25):
your position, the other loose forwards to some extent to
see pictures that you sometimes can't see if you've got
your head buried. You know, those guys have to make
those decisions. And as I say, you've done a lot
of the planning and prep around that before you go
out on the field. So and you're also relying on
the coaches to send down the right messages, know what
(09:46):
they are seeing in the game, and any adjustments that
you need to make that has to come from from
the coaching box, which often has a different perspective from
what you're seeing on the field yourself. So you know,
there's a whole combination of things here that go on
for a captain, and you've got to be open to
all of them and try and make decisions pretty quickly
in the need of the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Fascinating times ahead, indeed, Ruben, thanks so much for landing
us your time and you're experts. On the Sports Fix podcast,
Ruben Thorn, former All Blacks captain, with.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Us dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's SPORTSFX with Jason Vine.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Just a few more thoughts from me on Saturday night's
test in Wellington or Black South Africa in case you'd
missed at first things first, huge congratulations to South Africa.
What a performance from them, and in particular that second
half performance. That was as good a forty minutes as
I can remember from any team who has come to
(10:41):
our shores. Maybe ever they were just on another level
and the All Blacks simply had no answers to that. Look,
we all know that sometimes you just get beaten by
a better team. That happens. You hold your hands up
and say, look, we gave absolutely everything and there was
nothing that we could do. No team in the world
would have lived with the spring box on Saturday night.
(11:02):
But the major concern was the manner of the defeat.
It was a second half. There's really no other way
of describing it. Thirty six unanswered points. Now, the word
capitulation is one that doesn't usually sits alongside the All
Blacks in a sentence, sometimes as I say another team
just as a worldie, and that's what the spring Box did.
(11:23):
But the base level required by the Black Jersey is
that you play until the end. And as those points
mounted up, it looked very much from the sideline as
though some of the men in the Black Jerseys gave up.
It looked as though they wanted to get down the
tunnel and get out of there. Now we're constantly told
by those inside the All Blacks environment that the Black
(11:45):
Jersey demands excellence, and that's what the legacy of this
team is built on. Care for the jersey, awareness of
its history, are desired to enhance it while you are
in possession of it, while very few players enhance the
jersey on Saturday night. If we are looking, though, for
a shred of consolation from all this, we can perhaps
get it from what happened at Albany in twenty seventeen.
(12:06):
The All Blacks beat South Africa fifty seven nil that night.
You'll remember two years later South Africa were World champions,
and four years after that they were World champions again.
The All Blacks now can only do one thing and
that is used Saturday nights as motivation as fuel. They
have to remember what it felt like standing there on
(12:27):
the grass on Saturday night watching South Africa take the
Freedom Cup and celebrate one of their greatest victories. They
must use that the All Blacks, to drive them on
and to make sure they never ever, ever, ever feel
that way again.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
The Chamber is now in session on Sportsfix.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You're listening to the Sports Fix podcast, and into the
Chamber we go. Monday's Chamber, the People's Chamber. Elijah Fuel
joins us. What a we can Elijah, I guess we
have to start with the All Blacks. I've heard a
lot of views, haven't heard yours. What's resonating inside your
mind as you as you think back forty eight hours
or so?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
I mean, what can I say that's appropriate for on air?
Is probably one thinking Heidi. Yeah, it was a tough
watch on Saturday night, probably one of the more embarrassing
losses for the All Blacks and losing by thirty three
points on your home's Surfers. Yeah, that's a very rough performance,
particularly in that second half. I'm not sure what happened
at halftime. I think the spring Box. In the first
(13:28):
half they had their chances but failed to really capitalize
on them. But I think in the second half they've
really pulled through and executed and I've never seen well
it's been a while really since I've seen the All
backs get sliped up like that by their back line.
And yeah, for the All Blacks, the woes around the
set piece, the scrum and the line out, particularly when
(13:51):
Brody McAllister came on not pointing the finger at him,
but I think there was a sort of lack of
cohesion in that particular facet of the game and those
high ball struggles they're still hanging around as well, so
plenty the work on, particularly with the Wallabies coming to
Eden Park next.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And I think that's the problem, isn't it. If it
was just one thing, you know, if it was just
the line out or just the scrum, or just the
high ball or something similar, then they could focus a
lot of their energy on fixing that thing. But you're right,
there's a lot of things and raise I said afterwards, look,
we don't want to go chasing everything in the quest
to improve this, but they have to look a lot
of areas just on that line out, and I think
(14:30):
the biggest turning point of the game for me, it
was on the ar Mark there's seventeen to ten down
the All Blacks. They're on their own line defending a
line out they know South Africa will contest. There's a
rookie hooker playing in Justice second Test, biggest lineout, thriou
his life, and they call some complicated move that has
jumpers going up and down the line, a bit of misdirection,
(14:52):
a little bit of sort of faking here and there,
and Brody McAllister, I mean through no follow zone read
just throws it straight to South Africa. Scott Barrett's got
a take ownership of that and just go to the
front and call it to himself, doesn't he exactly?
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Particularly in a situation like that where you've got an
experienced hooker like Rody McAllister, you have the really simple fire.
In those situations are I'm not sure if you're trying
to play sort of forty chess or something against the Springboks,
but there was really no need, you know, Scott Baronies
to take charge there. Caller Zone number helped Brodie mcal
stay out a little bit. Situations like those where you
have to understand the personnel you're working with and sort
(15:26):
of simplify it to make it a lot easier. So
that was definitely one situation where the All Blacks are
lacked an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Glimmers of hope around personnel. And if we stay with Hawker,
Cody Taylor presumably will pass his HIA protocols and be
available for the first Bladerslow Cup Test at Eden Park.
And we were told yesterday that Cam Royguard will also
be back, so at hooker and half back we'll have
our number ones, and not just our number ones, but
our clear number ones. Because I think of this year
(15:54):
as a shown as anything, it's that there's a massive
gap from Taylor back to the rest and from roy
Guard back to the rest, isn't there?
Speaker 6 (16:00):
Yeah, definitely, And the returns of Cody and Cam are
going to be huge, and particularly Cortez as well. If
Cortez is able to play in a couple of weeks
at Eden Park. We need those guys and those players
like Cody and Cam are going to make a huge
difference against the Wallaby side that has shown a lot
of rejuvenation this season under Joe Schmid's and yes it's
(16:23):
created the results having gone their way. They've had two
wins and two losses, but everyone else in the Rugby
Championship has as well, which has created an exciting contest.
But the Wallaby is they're going to be hungry and
they're gonna be looking to end that streak at at
Eden Park in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I still think we'll win. That's the crazy thing, you know.
After a thirty three point shell acking, I still think
there'll be a response and we'll win an eden Park.
Maybe because it's Edon Park, who knows, but you're right.
The Australians will be watching from the other side of
the Tasman and preparing for a massive couple of matches
where they'll believe they can they can get their Blitterlow
Cup back. To do that, they've got to break the
(16:57):
Eden Park curse, of course, don't they. They've got to
come to Eden Park and win in a couple of weeks,
so they'll be focusing all of their energy on that.
The Warriors season came to an end on Saturday nights,
slightly earlier then the All Blacks game going down to
the Panthers, which I think most neutral observers anyway predicted
would happen given everything Elijah, the departures of some key
(17:19):
players at the end of last season, the injuries to
key players during the season, the fact that the Warriors
were thirteenth last season, had a terrible start to their
campaign in Vegas. Is hosting a finals game actually not
about outcome?
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Yeah, I think given what you've just mentioned around, I
think the injuries the season was costly for the Warriors.
Losing two of your best players and Luke Metcalfe and
Mitch Barnett does not help at all. I guess the
rotation at center, where you know, Rocky Berry and ali
Leah Tower couldn't catch a break with their injuries, and
they had to bring in players like Kirk cape Well
and Lekuhalesima and Charles NK Coxton and moving them around
(17:56):
into that position didn't help things either. So I think
given what you know, what the Warriors were given, I think, yeah,
a home final was probably the best outcome. I do
think it was opportunity though that they didn't finish in
the top four this season. They spent most of the
season in the top four, and I think the last
couple of months, you know, really lacked that consistency and
(18:17):
there was that poor execution, lapses in concentration that saw
them slip down the ladder. So I think a lot
of it's a season of what IFFs, but I think
it's definitely a lot of promise heading into next season.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, I think they are where they are at the moment.
They're a finals team. I think that's probably true of
a lot of teams in the camp, even though who
didn't make the eight, But they're not a top four
team just yet. Ironically enough, the Panthers who didn't finish
in the top four looked every inch are contender. Even
though they finished seventh. They could still win.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
It, couldn't they They still can, I think. I mean,
I'll give credit to the Warriors because Warriors actually played
really well. It was probably one of their better performances
over the last couple of months. They brought an intensity
that had been missing the last couple of months, and
I think they really had a lot of opportunities there
to the top of the Panthers an end that four
year dynasty. But yeah, the Panthers, they showed their class
(19:08):
in there and that is going to help them big
time moving forward. And yeah, yeah, I think the Panthers
are definitely a huge chance, but there's a lot of
contenders there. The Storm and the Broncos and now they're
going to be able to go. The Panthers are going
going to be going up against the Bulldogs, and the
Raiders are there as well. So a lot of contenders
there for their NRAL Premiership.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Absolutely right and intriguing. Three more weekends of finals to come.
The Warriors lick their wounds, have their Mad Monday, presumably today,
and then get ready for twenty twenty six. Well that's
our Mad Monday people's Chamber. Elijah Good, the chat has
always Let's do it again next week.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
We'll do Thank you, pony.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
This is Sportsfix, your daily dose of sports news, cowing
by News Talks V.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that blows the final whistle on the Sports Fix
podcast for today. Thank you so much for listening, for downloading,
and for subscribing. Subscribers to Sports Fix will find a
fresh episode dropping into their podcast feed at around about
the same time tomorrow afternoon. And for more from News Talks,
He'd be Sport, check out Sports Talk weeknights between even
and eight and on the weekends weekend Sport midday to
(20:11):
three on Saturday and again on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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