December 10, 2025 • 10 mins
The Black Caps were rocked with injuries following the first test against the West Indies in Christchurch.
Tom Blundell went down in the first day, followed by Nathan Smith and premier fast bowler Matt Henry.
Mitch Santner has also been ruled out for the whole series due to injury.
D'Arcy caught up with former Black Cap Chris Cairns to discuss these injuries - and what it could mean for the team.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Currying the piece I spoke with Chris Kens before the
Tickma incident. You'll find that amusing as you listen to
what Chris has to say a lot of injuries throughout
the black Caps of recent times lost Tom Blundell, Nathan Smith,
Matt Henry Santon has ruled out. The list goes on
and on and on. Two debutantes take the field and
(00:33):
Wellington today Blair Tickner came back. Dear, So we talked
to Chris about the black Caps and their depth. Do
they have a problem there with new blood coming into
the team not experienced enough in high pressure situations for
my black Cap Chris Kens joins us now to discussoday. Chris,
(00:54):
how are you okay?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
That's all good here? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
That's what I like to hear. I hate to drag
you away from the TV cricket, but let's look at
what's happening and you selling creckit right now talking about
the T twenty ruckus. I've moved on that. We'll sort
that out later in the piece. I'm interested in the
depth of New Zealand cricket in the seam bowling department,
maybe further across the board.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We saw what.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Happened last week. It was very unfortunate to lose two
three players during a game and we were hamstrung by
that probably should have won the game. But on a
wider scale, how was depth looking in New Zealand cricket?
Because on the surface it looks okay, but then you
pick the scab, maybe it's not as good as we
(01:41):
like to think it is. Where do you sit on this, Chris.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, Look, it's sort of a double edged sword, that one.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
And the fact that dart you, I mean, what it
does do is that on Earth's talent sometimes as well
guys who perhaps didn't get a shot or haven't for
a while, and I suppose you know, Tickner is exactly
in that category. Went into the wilderness a bit, and look,
I think I don't know him personally, but obviously there
was some three challenging personal circumstances mate that you know,
(02:10):
took some time and away from him family wise, and
you know, you just hope that everything is okay there,
but you know, wonderful to see him back. And then
that I was going to say, the young well, you
always sort of say the young guy, but race come
from Cannabury, viral Otago, and you know he looks like
a good sort of New Zealand strong bowler, sort of
(02:31):
in the mold of like a Wishnevski or something like that.
But at the moment with Jameson and a rourk Out
and also with Matt Henry, you know that that's your
front line attack and that's a that's a good.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
International attack, those three guys right there. So so the
depth has been tested.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
But look, you know it's a chance for guys to
get a crack that may not have made. So you
know there's an opportunity there for people to come in
and have a go and you know, put their name
up in lights.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
You lose one guy, unlucky, you lose two, you lose three.
You've upset the cricketing gods. And we were talking off air,
Chris about this before, and you were the healthy in
days of your warners and your bolts and your sauv
said you don't remember them getting injured and you could
build an attack around that. What did they do that
We're not getting done now. It's really this load management.
(03:19):
I suppose in this DNA is ca to this isn't it?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well yeah it is, but it's also but it also
comes down to technique, you know, and how good and
robust and looks sow the Wagner and Bolt were exceptional,
you know, really simple techniques, guys that not a lot
could go wrong and they just churned it out.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And look it's no no, I mean the success that that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Team and that time and us in the cricket they had,
does you know it was down to those three guys
staying together and you know, putting an attack together that
was consistently playing. But like you know, the Australians have
got at the moment and Cummins, Stark and uh and
hazel Wood. Cummins is coming back now, but they've had
the last five, six, seven years with those three guys.
(04:08):
So if you can get that nucleus together, and that
was you know, we in my era, I mean, we
couldn't do that together. I was injured or Deal Nash
was injured all he was injured at certain times. Jeff
Allett had you know a patch in there as well,
and we just we couldn't string it together.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And so you know, our results were a little sporadic.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
But if you've got that strength and that core group
and we just we just don't quite have it at
the moment. You know, hopefully it comes back, but it
ebbs and flows over sort of over different generation.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Is it a fluke that some players last another players
just snap and hard. It doesn't matter what you do.
Sometimes it's just it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Right, Well, that's a genetic thing, right, So that that
also comes into play, and you know it's some people's
bodies are genetically you know, geared towards certain things and
they may have an advantage. And then, like I said before,
you've got technical aspects mate about.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
What comes into the stresses and strains you put on
your body.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So yes, is a little bit of luck that goes
with it, but ultimately the preparation and the you know,
the fitness side that has to go. But you cannot
underestimate the bowling loads that need to go on the
body to make it strong for bowling.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And difficult when you're playing not only well, if you're
playing at a top level, you're playing T twenty and
one day Internationals and Test great, but then you add
the fact that you are playing a lot of cricket
at a provincial level. Two in order to get up
to that breakthrough time which we've seen with a number
of players in the last couple of years. Does that
(05:41):
add just extra gris Does that make it even tougher
dealing with all these different formats and quality of fixtures.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, I suppose that the chopping and changing. But you
know when you used to have you know, a huge amount.
You look at the diet that for example, Sir Richard
would have played in the UK in the in the eighties,
you know he was playing. They were played sometimes to
eighteen days on the trot, you know, so, and you
look at the amount of overs that he bowled during
a county season.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So when you talk about loads and changing and what's
going on, yes, there is different stresses and strains around,
you know, what's required in the different formats. And I
think the thing that probably gets underrated or not talked
about so much, mate, is the is the importance and
stress that's put on fielding.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And the bowlers are.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Expected these days to hurtle after the ball, you know,
dive on the boundary, give that part of themselves to
what's going on and that also it does open you up,
fringe you because you know, back in the seventies and
the eighties bowl is bold. You know, they didn't put
the stresses and strains in that fielding capacity and aspect
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So what's that the right thing to do? I don't know,
but in that particular time, that's what they did.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
They bowled, whereas today the expectation is that you know,
the runs you save in the field, that's hellishly important.
So you are putting more strain on yourself with that
expectation in the field of what you've got to do
from a commitment point of view. So so there are
different things and whatnot they come to it, but you know, fundamentally,
it's part of its luck, part of its good management
(07:13):
that you can get a core group of players like Wagner,
Bolt and Saudi, keep them together and if you can,
you will get success because those those those gentlemen are
responsible for, you know, the engine room of the bowling
and if they stay together, you will get success.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Is there a potential problem with the less experienced players
being given an opportunity like Ray today and other players
and over extending themselves because they're so keen to have
an effect and that might just rail them.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Well that's what that's what happens.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
You know, when you get into making the New Zealand side,
you think you have to do more, and sometimes the
players will try harder, put more pressure on themselves and
you actually don't know you're pick to do a job.
Come in and do what it is that you've been
selected to do, and you know, find your feet, get
the rhythm going.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
And do what you need to do.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
What's great about someone like Ray coming into the side
is that he now will have a taste of what
the international game is.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
About.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
How long he stays in that environment, I'm unsure, but
what he does do is that he then takes that experience,
that euphoria, that joy, that joy back down into first
class level and just and we'll be saying to the
guys that at Canterbury, you know just how awesome it
is to be in that New Zealand camp and to
play international cricket. So that in itself as the crumbs
(08:37):
that sort of you know, go down to give people
inspiration to to make it up to that level because
there's nothing like it made.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I mean, you go up there and you you know
it's what you're.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Exposed to, and what you what you you know, what
you what you get, and just the opposition you're playing
against all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know, that's why you do it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
So the fact that he's experienced that he can pass
it on to both first class and club teammates and
sort of just say how how awesome it is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And then you have a young.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Eighteen or nineteen year old on the side and that
that that lifts them even more. So you know, it's
nice that he's getting that experience.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And through that it's almost as you said, it's a
conduit from provincial cricket to international cricket, and that energy
gets shaved for these younger guys. So it's not ideal,
but long term it's actually really important. I'm presuming as saying.
I'm not words in your mouth, Chris, but long term
(09:28):
is really important that these guys get a wee taste,
even though it might not go any further, because it
by default creates depth.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, no, it does. And also what it does as
well is that it lifts his game. So now all
of a sudden he's a better bowler. So he's going
back to first class cricket and now the first class
batters around the country are getting more exposure to bit
of bowling.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So you know, it's sort of if you can give
people that taste it us and then even I know,
and I'm sure they'll do it here as well. I'm
not privy to what goes.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
On, but you know, to bring younger guys into camps
and to have them around the fringe and to have
you know, people with just a bit of experience and
giving them a taste and it's important and I'm sure
that that's what they do, and you know because that
does feedback down to both domestic first class level and
then you know by'd fall down into club levels. So
you want you want those layers available so that the
(10:20):
messaging is getting, you know, right through the levels of
New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Dat on Matt chris Kins will bid you farewell, thanks
very much as always for your time and expertise.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Awesome Gus. Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Currying the piece I spoke with Chris Kens before the
Tickma incident. You'll find that amusing as you listen to
what Chris has to say a lot of injuries throughout
the black Caps of recent times lost Tom Blundell, Nathan Smith,
Matt Henry Santon has ruled out. The list goes on
and on and on. Two debutantes take the field and
(00:33):
Wellington today Blair Tickner came back. Dear, So we talked
to Chris about the black Caps and their depth. Do
they have a problem there with new blood coming into
the team not experienced enough in high pressure situations for
my black Cap Chris Kens joins us now to discussoday. Chris,
(00:54):
how are you okay?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
That's all good here? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
That's what I like to hear. I hate to drag
you away from the TV cricket, but let's look at
what's happening and you selling creckit right now talking about
the T twenty ruckus. I've moved on that. We'll sort
that out later in the piece. I'm interested in the
depth of New Zealand cricket in the seam bowling department,
maybe further across the board.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We saw what.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Happened last week. It was very unfortunate to lose two
three players during a game and we were hamstrung by
that probably should have won the game. But on a
wider scale, how was depth looking in New Zealand cricket?
Because on the surface it looks okay, but then you
pick the scab, maybe it's not as good as we
(01:41):
like to think it is. Where do you sit on this, Chris.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, Look, it's sort of a double edged sword, that one.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
And the fact that dart you, I mean, what it
does do is that on Earth's talent sometimes as well
guys who perhaps didn't get a shot or haven't for
a while, and I suppose you know, Tickner is exactly
in that category. Went into the wilderness a bit, and look,
I think I don't know him personally, but obviously there
was some three challenging personal circumstances mate that you know,
(02:10):
took some time and away from him family wise, and
you know, you just hope that everything is okay there,
but you know, wonderful to see him back. And then
that I was going to say, the young well, you
always sort of say the young guy, but race come
from Cannabury, viral Otago, and you know he looks like
a good sort of New Zealand strong bowler, sort of
(02:31):
in the mold of like a Wishnevski or something like that.
But at the moment with Jameson and a rourk Out
and also with Matt Henry, you know that that's your
front line attack and that's a that's a good.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
International attack, those three guys right there. So so the
depth has been tested.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
But look, you know it's a chance for guys to
get a crack that may not have made. So you
know there's an opportunity there for people to come in
and have a go and you know, put their name
up in lights.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
You lose one guy, unlucky, you lose two, you lose three.
You've upset the cricketing gods. And we were talking off air,
Chris about this before, and you were the healthy in
days of your warners and your bolts and your sauv
said you don't remember them getting injured and you could
build an attack around that. What did they do that
We're not getting done now. It's really this load management.
(03:19):
I suppose in this DNA is ca to this isn't it?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well yeah it is, but it's also but it also
comes down to technique, you know, and how good and
robust and looks sow the Wagner and Bolt were exceptional,
you know, really simple techniques, guys that not a lot
could go wrong and they just churned it out.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And look it's no no, I mean the success that that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Team and that time and us in the cricket they had,
does you know it was down to those three guys
staying together and you know, putting an attack together that
was consistently playing. But like you know, the Australians have
got at the moment and Cummins, Stark and uh and
hazel Wood. Cummins is coming back now, but they've had
the last five, six, seven years with those three guys.
(04:08):
So if you can get that nucleus together, and that
was you know, we in my era, I mean, we
couldn't do that together. I was injured or Deal Nash
was injured all he was injured at certain times. Jeff
Allett had you know a patch in there as well,
and we just we couldn't string it together.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And so you know, our results were a little sporadic.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
But if you've got that strength and that core group
and we just we just don't quite have it at
the moment. You know, hopefully it comes back, but it
ebbs and flows over sort of over different generation.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Is it a fluke that some players last another players
just snap and hard. It doesn't matter what you do.
Sometimes it's just it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Right, Well, that's a genetic thing, right, So that that
also comes into play, and you know it's some people's
bodies are genetically you know, geared towards certain things and
they may have an advantage. And then, like I said before,
you've got technical aspects mate about.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
What comes into the stresses and strains you put on
your body.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So yes, is a little bit of luck that goes
with it, but ultimately the preparation and the you know,
the fitness side that has to go. But you cannot
underestimate the bowling loads that need to go on the
body to make it strong for bowling.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And difficult when you're playing not only well, if you're
playing at a top level, you're playing T twenty and
one day Internationals and Test great, but then you add
the fact that you are playing a lot of cricket
at a provincial level. Two in order to get up
to that breakthrough time which we've seen with a number
of players in the last couple of years. Does that
(05:41):
add just extra gris Does that make it even tougher
dealing with all these different formats and quality of fixtures.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, I suppose that the chopping and changing. But you
know when you used to have you know, a huge amount.
You look at the diet that for example, Sir Richard
would have played in the UK in the in the eighties,
you know he was playing. They were played sometimes to
eighteen days on the trot, you know, so, and you
look at the amount of overs that he bowled during
a county season.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So when you talk about loads and changing and what's
going on, yes, there is different stresses and strains around,
you know, what's required in the different formats. And I
think the thing that probably gets underrated or not talked
about so much, mate, is the is the importance and
stress that's put on fielding.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And the bowlers are.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Expected these days to hurtle after the ball, you know,
dive on the boundary, give that part of themselves to
what's going on and that also it does open you up,
fringe you because you know, back in the seventies and
the eighties bowl is bold. You know, they didn't put
the stresses and strains in that fielding capacity and aspect
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So what's that the right thing to do? I don't know,
but in that particular time, that's what they did.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
They bowled, whereas today the expectation is that you know,
the runs you save in the field, that's hellishly important.
So you are putting more strain on yourself with that
expectation in the field of what you've got to do
from a commitment point of view. So so there are
different things and whatnot they come to it, but you know, fundamentally,
it's part of its luck, part of its good management
(07:13):
that you can get a core group of players like Wagner,
Bolt and Saudi, keep them together and if you can,
you will get success because those those those gentlemen are
responsible for, you know, the engine room of the bowling
and if they stay together, you will get success.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Is there a potential problem with the less experienced players
being given an opportunity like Ray today and other players
and over extending themselves because they're so keen to have
an effect and that might just rail them.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Well that's what that's what happens.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
You know, when you get into making the New Zealand side,
you think you have to do more, and sometimes the
players will try harder, put more pressure on themselves and
you actually don't know you're pick to do a job.
Come in and do what it is that you've been
selected to do, and you know, find your feet, get
the rhythm going.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
And do what you need to do.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
What's great about someone like Ray coming into the side
is that he now will have a taste of what
the international game is.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
About.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
How long he stays in that environment, I'm unsure, but
what he does do is that he then takes that experience,
that euphoria, that joy, that joy back down into first
class level and just and we'll be saying to the
guys that at Canterbury, you know just how awesome it
is to be in that New Zealand camp and to
play international cricket. So that in itself as the crumbs
(08:37):
that sort of you know, go down to give people
inspiration to to make it up to that level because
there's nothing like it made.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I mean, you go up there and you you know
it's what you're.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Exposed to, and what you what you you know, what
you what you get, and just the opposition you're playing
against all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know, that's why you do it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
So the fact that he's experienced that he can pass
it on to both first class and club teammates and
sort of just say how how awesome it is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And then you have a young.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Eighteen or nineteen year old on the side and that
that that lifts them even more. So you know, it's
nice that he's getting that experience.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And through that it's almost as you said, it's a
conduit from provincial cricket to international cricket, and that energy
gets shaved for these younger guys. So it's not ideal,
but long term it's actually really important. I'm presuming as saying.
I'm not words in your mouth, Chris, but long term
(09:28):
is really important that these guys get a wee taste,
even though it might not go any further, because it
by default creates depth.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, no, it does. And also what it does as
well is that it lifts his game. So now all
of a sudden he's a better bowler. So he's going
back to first class cricket and now the first class
batters around the country are getting more exposure to bit
of bowling.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So you know, it's sort of if you can give
people that taste it us and then even I know,
and I'm sure they'll do it here as well. I'm
not privy to what goes.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
On, but you know, to bring younger guys into camps
and to have them around the fringe and to have
you know, people with just a bit of experience and
giving them a taste and it's important and I'm sure
that that's what they do, and you know because that
does feedback down to both domestic first class level and
then you know by'd fall down into club levels. So
you want you want those layers available so that the
(10:20):
messaging is getting, you know, right through the levels of
New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Dat on Matt chris Kins will bid you farewell, thanks
very much as always for your time and expertise.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Awesome Gus. Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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