January 29, 2025 • 10 mins
NRL bosses will put their Australian broadcast rights up for grabs this year in a move that could spark interest from foreign streaming services.
Colin Smith is a sports television rights expert and joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the situation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Ducie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Colin Smith is with us on the fects. Now is
it a TV sports rights negotiator? The latest dominator four
looks to be the NRL. They seem set on selling
their rights to the highest negotiator, which may well be
does Zone, it may well be Netflix. What does that
mean for us? What does it mean for Sky TV?
(00:33):
We're going to find out now. Hi, Colin, thank you,
great to speak and great to have you on as well.
Interesting times for you. What it always is, isn't it
as a sports rights consultant, this deal with the NRL
that they're trying to marry up with a number of
different massive providers. While talk about money, do Zone, Netflix, Amazon?
(00:54):
They're really looking to get the highest bidder, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Oh? They certainly are, And because it's got opportunities on
both sides of the ditch too in Australia and now
definitely New Zealan. So what will the do you look.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Like if it's Netflix or de Zone, whoever picks it up,
What that looked like and what would it look like
for New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Colmn, Well, you could see them wanting to acquire the
global rights that includes New Zealand, includes Australia and frankly
that's already happened with Major League Soccer in the United
States where Apple TV have the global rights, So you
could see there's a real opportunity and therefore to have
(01:36):
across both markets, especially Australia and the significant growth market
in New Zealand, and even today in New Zealand, the
NRL outrates Super Rugby of games that played live in
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You mentioned Apple TV and I'd forgot about that player.
There are so many of these players. It's increasingly becoming
the go to for these subscriber channels such as Netflix,
Apple TV. More in line, would we like to see
more of a fight here.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Well, you could see it, But on the other hand
you'd also see that SkyTV in New Zealand would want
to retain. The NRL definitely would want to and especially
if there's a second team saying christ Church, meaning there's
real competitive rivalry between the North and the South Ireland,
which would be huge.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
How likely is this deal to go ahead? Do you think?
What do you think will happen if.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I put that in an Australian context, the NRL alongside
the AFL that must have broadcasts in Australia. So in
other words, if you are a serious sports broadcaster, you
want both of those, and you probably would like cricket
in summer now that's what Foxtell has currently And in
(02:55):
a New Zealand context you want rugby, but increasingly you're
going to be more interested in the NRL as well.
So the combination of both means it's very attractive to
a sports streaming service like the ones you've named a sky.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
TV in trouble here, if they lose the NRL, this
will be the death now.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Not necessarily so, because one of the things that the
SkyTV New Zealand has done, which is really smart, they've
acquired some of the World Cup rugby rights independently of
New Zealand Rugby and they're playing, as I understand, and
hardball get the price more equitable for both in terms
of their current rights. But if they having ANRL, especially
(03:42):
again as I mentioned, a second team, that would be significant.
And if I was SkyTV in New Zealand and sports
their key driver, I would want both rugby and I'd
want NURL as well. If they don't have it, they
could potentially lose subscriptions from that, and the key for
them is being the owner of sport in New Zealand.
(04:03):
But if one of the big players comes in and
there's real economies of scale of operating in Australia and
New Zealand business, that would be a real threat.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What about the uptake You mentioned Spark and one of
the issues they had was reasonable new technology, a lot
of people reticent to actually engage. Maybe we have a
situation where the connections weren't as fast as they as
they are now. Do you think with the advancement of
a few years and where people are going with their
ability to stream and the technology behind it, there'll be
(04:34):
a big uptake. Is that going to get in the way?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Do you think streamers now have sold most of their
technical issues and can take constreme sport the most popular
sports as well. So you're going to get less of
the issues of what i'd call loosely the blackouts, which
were major issues for the Rugby World cover number of
years ago. In New Zealand. That won't be the case
(04:58):
and so they are genuine competitors if they want to
enter the market. The beauty is they could enter the market.
As they're going to more than likely acquire Foxtel in Australia,
they could then send their product into New Zealand as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
What about pricing? We know what it's going to cost
when we think, we know it's going to cost these
big players, but what about us? What's that going to
do to our bill?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
They are going to make sure their competitive in the marketplace,
so you and I will want to subscribe to them.
So with attractive content, they don't have a reputation for
pricing up. They have a reputation for being low cost
in their entry prices. So in other words, your streaming
(05:45):
costs for a connection to one of these streaming services
won't be excessive.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
What's the drive behind all this? So with the likes
of Apple TV and Amazon and Zone and Netflix, is
that the only growth area left?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It is the growth area because what's happening that people
are voting. Most subscribers now have more than one streaming service,
and they're watching less and less of a linear TV
or satellite TV, and they're watching on their smartphones, on
their smart TVs, etc. So it is the way of
(06:22):
the world that increasingly this is going to be how
we view and watch, especially sport.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You've got fine history and great knowledge in this space,
Colin Smith. So what does a crystal ball tell you
who's going to win these rights?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It's a really good question. And see the design strategy
is to become the Netflix of sport and so own
all the sports content. Now they've got a lot of
work to do and that's an expensive but you could
see increasingly global players will own the major content. We're
(06:59):
already seeing that with entertainment that you know, the likes
of the Disney pluses, the power amount pluses, et cetera,
are gaining share in a global presence. So you could
see this increasingly happening with sport as well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Are they likely to eat up things like NASCAR which
is massive in America, NFL which they've alreay hit a
taste of Formula one, Golf, NHL. They've got a massive appetite.
Will they actually manage to dine out on these huge,
huge American based sport How important is that for them?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
A class example, the Zone acquired the global rights for
NFL Pass in other words, which is streaming outside of
the USA and Canada for a billion US dollars. So
they've got the global rights. So if in New Zealand
you want to watch all of the NFL, you can
get some on ESPN, but most of your content, on
(07:58):
all of your content you can watch on NFL Pass,
which is through the zone. Similarly, that's the same issue
in Australia, or if you and I were in Singapore,
the same issue would apply there too. It's all about
premium properties too. So the premium properties in New Zealand
is Rugby and also fast approaching NURL as well.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm interested in the Formula one space mainly because I'm
an absolute if one tragic but when you look at
major global sports that are oozing money, that's got to
be almost right at the top of the tree, doesn't it, Colin.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh yeah, no question. And you see the interesting thing
is there Formula one is owned by Liberty Media and
it's been unbelievably successful. The numbers of attendances, the viewership,
the global viewership is up enormously, so the value of
those rights are also increasing. And see one of the
(08:55):
strategies that the zwner is God in Europe is owning
a lot of those rights throughout Europe. You know, in
other words, Germany, Portugal, etc. And then supported by Football
and Fight Sports with us in.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
The bottom line column. Should we be cheering this song
you touched on it before? Will that drop the prices
for your average consumer with a conglomerate like this or
is it a threat to us?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I don't think it's neither a threat. What it is
a threat to is if the sports themselves don't get
the houses in order and create really attractive content and
also commercial rights organized. It is a threat to those.
I see as a plus because it will increase the
(09:45):
competitive environment. But again I think the way that Spy
has acquired rugby content outside of New Zealand Rugby that
New Zealanders want, that's pretty smart on their part. But
how New Zealand Rugby goes forward and how it addresses
the provincial chair meanships, they are more issues because viewers
(10:09):
are turning off those right now and how do you
get them back. For the forward thinking sports and the
ones who are really trying to drive a tendencies in viewership,
I think it's a real plus. If it's a plus
for that, it's a plus for the fans as well.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
For more from Sports Talk, listen Live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Ducie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Colin Smith is with us on the fects. Now is
it a TV sports rights negotiator? The latest dominator four
looks to be the NRL. They seem set on selling
their rights to the highest negotiator, which may well be
does Zone, it may well be Netflix. What does that
mean for us? What does it mean for Sky TV?
(00:33):
We're going to find out now. Hi, Colin, thank you,
great to speak and great to have you on as well.
Interesting times for you. What it always is, isn't it
as a sports rights consultant, this deal with the NRL
that they're trying to marry up with a number of
different massive providers. While talk about money, do Zone, Netflix, Amazon?
(00:54):
They're really looking to get the highest bidder, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Oh? They certainly are, And because it's got opportunities on
both sides of the ditch too in Australia and now
definitely New Zealan. So what will the do you look.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Like if it's Netflix or de Zone, whoever picks it up,
What that looked like and what would it look like
for New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Colmn, Well, you could see them wanting to acquire the
global rights that includes New Zealand, includes Australia and frankly
that's already happened with Major League Soccer in the United
States where Apple TV have the global rights, So you
could see there's a real opportunity and therefore to have
(01:36):
across both markets, especially Australia and the significant growth market
in New Zealand, and even today in New Zealand, the
NRL outrates Super Rugby of games that played live in
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You mentioned Apple TV and I'd forgot about that player.
There are so many of these players. It's increasingly becoming
the go to for these subscriber channels such as Netflix,
Apple TV. More in line, would we like to see
more of a fight here.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Well, you could see it, But on the other hand
you'd also see that SkyTV in New Zealand would want
to retain. The NRL definitely would want to and especially
if there's a second team saying christ Church, meaning there's
real competitive rivalry between the North and the South Ireland,
which would be huge.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
How likely is this deal to go ahead? Do you think?
What do you think will happen if.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I put that in an Australian context, the NRL alongside
the AFL that must have broadcasts in Australia. So in
other words, if you are a serious sports broadcaster, you
want both of those, and you probably would like cricket
in summer now that's what Foxtell has currently And in
(02:55):
a New Zealand context you want rugby, but increasingly you're
going to be more interested in the NRL as well.
So the combination of both means it's very attractive to
a sports streaming service like the ones you've named a sky.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
TV in trouble here, if they lose the NRL, this
will be the death now.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Not necessarily so, because one of the things that the
SkyTV New Zealand has done, which is really smart, they've
acquired some of the World Cup rugby rights independently of
New Zealand Rugby and they're playing, as I understand, and
hardball get the price more equitable for both in terms
of their current rights. But if they having ANRL, especially
(03:42):
again as I mentioned, a second team, that would be significant.
And if I was SkyTV in New Zealand and sports
their key driver, I would want both rugby and I'd
want NURL as well. If they don't have it, they
could potentially lose subscriptions from that, and the key for
them is being the owner of sport in New Zealand.
(04:03):
But if one of the big players comes in and
there's real economies of scale of operating in Australia and
New Zealand business, that would be a real threat.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What about the uptake You mentioned Spark and one of
the issues they had was reasonable new technology, a lot
of people reticent to actually engage. Maybe we have a
situation where the connections weren't as fast as they as
they are now. Do you think with the advancement of
a few years and where people are going with their
ability to stream and the technology behind it, there'll be
(04:34):
a big uptake. Is that going to get in the way?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Do you think streamers now have sold most of their
technical issues and can take constreme sport the most popular
sports as well. So you're going to get less of
the issues of what i'd call loosely the blackouts, which
were major issues for the Rugby World cover number of
years ago. In New Zealand. That won't be the case
(04:58):
and so they are genuine competitors if they want to
enter the market. The beauty is they could enter the market.
As they're going to more than likely acquire Foxtel in Australia,
they could then send their product into New Zealand as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
What about pricing? We know what it's going to cost
when we think, we know it's going to cost these
big players, but what about us? What's that going to
do to our bill?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
They are going to make sure their competitive in the marketplace,
so you and I will want to subscribe to them.
So with attractive content, they don't have a reputation for
pricing up. They have a reputation for being low cost
in their entry prices. So in other words, your streaming
(05:45):
costs for a connection to one of these streaming services
won't be excessive.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
What's the drive behind all this? So with the likes
of Apple TV and Amazon and Zone and Netflix, is
that the only growth area left?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It is the growth area because what's happening that people
are voting. Most subscribers now have more than one streaming service,
and they're watching less and less of a linear TV
or satellite TV, and they're watching on their smartphones, on
their smart TVs, etc. So it is the way of
(06:22):
the world that increasingly this is going to be how
we view and watch, especially sport.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You've got fine history and great knowledge in this space,
Colin Smith. So what does a crystal ball tell you
who's going to win these rights?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It's a really good question. And see the design strategy
is to become the Netflix of sport and so own
all the sports content. Now they've got a lot of
work to do and that's an expensive but you could
see increasingly global players will own the major content. We're
(06:59):
already seeing that with entertainment that you know, the likes
of the Disney pluses, the power amount pluses, et cetera,
are gaining share in a global presence. So you could
see this increasingly happening with sport as well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Are they likely to eat up things like NASCAR which
is massive in America, NFL which they've alreay hit a
taste of Formula one, Golf, NHL. They've got a massive appetite.
Will they actually manage to dine out on these huge,
huge American based sport How important is that for them?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
A class example, the Zone acquired the global rights for
NFL Pass in other words, which is streaming outside of
the USA and Canada for a billion US dollars. So
they've got the global rights. So if in New Zealand
you want to watch all of the NFL, you can
get some on ESPN, but most of your content, on
(07:58):
all of your content you can watch on NFL Pass,
which is through the zone. Similarly, that's the same issue
in Australia, or if you and I were in Singapore,
the same issue would apply there too. It's all about
premium properties too. So the premium properties in New Zealand
is Rugby and also fast approaching NURL as well.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm interested in the Formula one space mainly because I'm
an absolute if one tragic but when you look at
major global sports that are oozing money, that's got to
be almost right at the top of the tree, doesn't it, Colin.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh yeah, no question. And you see the interesting thing
is there Formula one is owned by Liberty Media and
it's been unbelievably successful. The numbers of attendances, the viewership,
the global viewership is up enormously, so the value of
those rights are also increasing. And see one of the
(08:55):
strategies that the zwner is God in Europe is owning
a lot of those rights throughout Europe. You know, in
other words, Germany, Portugal, etc. And then supported by Football
and Fight Sports with us in.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
The bottom line column. Should we be cheering this song
you touched on it before? Will that drop the prices
for your average consumer with a conglomerate like this or
is it a threat to us?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I don't think it's neither a threat. What it is
a threat to is if the sports themselves don't get
the houses in order and create really attractive content and
also commercial rights organized. It is a threat to those.
I see as a plus because it will increase the
(09:45):
competitive environment. But again I think the way that Spy
has acquired rugby content outside of New Zealand Rugby that
New Zealanders want, that's pretty smart on their part. But
how New Zealand Rugby goes forward and how it addresses
the provincial chair meanships, they are more issues because viewers
(10:09):
are turning off those right now and how do you
get them back. For the forward thinking sports and the
ones who are really trying to drive a tendencies in viewership,
I think it's a real plus. If it's a plus
for that, it's a plus for the fans as well.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
For more from Sports Talk, listen Live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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