October 18, 2024 • 11 mins
Former Team New Zealand Skipper Dean Barker joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the battle for the 37 America's Cup.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We'll join now on news Talk z B by Dean
Barker as we talk America's Cup. He's just come back
from Barcelona and his role as a mentor for a
lingy and of course keenly anticipating what's going to come
up overnight when it comes to we're getting down to
crunch time, aren't we, Dean. It was four zip, it's
now four too. She's getting tight there for Team New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well, yeah, it's amazing what a day can do, isn't it.
It's I think everyone was probably a little surprised after
the first couple of or the first four races that
that you know, that Team New Zealand wouldn't have managed
to get at least one one one on that on
the third day. But it's yeah, it's it's it's really interesting.
You know. The thing you Team Zealand had two two
(00:59):
sort of mistakes and the two starts and that that
gave Anios a lead and both obviously and they did
a remarkable job, particularly the second one to get to
four to two to control the race because it still
looked like Team New Zealand had a small advantage and
(01:19):
performance and they were sort of coming back at them
at the end. But it's you know, I think it was.
What was what was great to see was it was
a from a from an aeo's perspective anyway, is that
they were able to control or hold back probably slightly
faster boat.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Laid down Mozire to an agree once Team New Zealand
fell off their foils, it was always going to be
very difficult late into the start box and then it
all kind of went pear shape from then. So it
was just an exercising getting back. But that second race,
Dean and it looked like the New Zealand crew had
the measure of Britannia, but they somehow managed to slither
(01:57):
away great bit of sailing. Fluke what happened there?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
No, it certainly it wasn't Fluke. It's Andy of us
has been an incredible story. You know, the time in
Barcelona where you look back at the preliminary regettors and
they were they were just they were average, you know,
nothing nothing special, and they've just managed to eke every
sort of last bit of performers out of that boat.
And it's the way they turned around. You know, they
(02:22):
obviously dominated us in the semi final and then the
and the lou Verton final against Luna Rossa. They they
sold an incredibly good event where I don't think too
many people had them coming out on top. And yeah,
well I still believe Timmy Zealand has the advantage. It's
there's there's a certainly not a lot in it. And
(02:44):
you know they need to be able to sell good
races to win, and so you know, you let let
any of us guys get in front. They've obviously got
a little bit more confidence back now having taken two races,
so they're going to be you know, they're going to
be hard to beat for sure. It's not a it's
not a case that is turning up. And you know
we saw, you know, like you said, the first the
first race that they they lost teams and lost they
(03:06):
just it all got set up by one sort of
you know, one small era at the beginning. It's been
too early for entry and having to try and slow
down and that sort of compounded into that prestart and
then you know, second one, I think, you know, just
a little misjudgment when they did have a good controlling
position and then we been able to capitalize on it.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
When you look at the relative speeds of the boats,
it looks like that Taihua was better in the light air,
britann You is better than the heavy air. And they
talked a lot about the sea state and the chopping nature.
Is it that defined or it was a little more
nuanced and subtle than that, Dean.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
The boats are incredibly difficult to sail, and to sail
and consistently well and with the sort of extra Yeah,
I guess that. Yeah, as you said, a nuance of waves.
It's not just sort of normal waves. As you get
on the Hurricye golf, you've got a leftover swell at times,
quite often it's offset to the wind direction and it
makes makes foiling really really hard. And it's that does
(04:10):
seem like there's certainly an element of how well each
team is sort of getting dialed in each day, how
well they're managing their boat. And then certainly is that
there's slightly different wind speeds. It does as you say,
I think it does look like any ls probably are
more competitive or slightly more competitive when the breeze is
up a little bit and the lighter winds. It does
look like Teams Zella might sort of favor that slightly more,
(04:33):
but again, the differences are so small and to me
really in watching it just seems like Teams Ellen's ability
to accelerate out of the maneuver is probably their biggest
strength relative to ANYS at the moment, and whether that's
something and he else can improve. You know, they obviously
they're out there trying to get better every day as
we you know, as they talked about after the racing yesterday.
(04:58):
But it's yeah, we'll see, you know, this weekend is
going to be super interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Then Baka joining the program. It's Ben Ainsley at the
end of those two victories said, look, we went out
there on the water and on the lay day you
Blake sat back and went through figures and numbers and
stats and he thinks that may have been a mistake.
So the different attitude and paths I suppose both teams
took in that lay day thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's always an interesting one. It's sort of a little
bit to be made about San Francisco and the fact
that Oracle were always out practicing and things and you know,
we were, you know, the other sort of frame of mind,
you know this time, you know, I think it was
just more probably it was an opportunity for Ben to
t probably play a few little mind games of his own.
(05:46):
But really, each each team has a clear path they're following.
For all we know, Team He's may have wanted to
spend the day doing some work on the boat to
make sure everything was in sort of a good state,
because you know, the boats do deteriorate each day, and
it's it is hard for the shore teams, even though
they are working around the clock to keep the boats
(06:07):
race ready and all the preparation that goes into it.
So they could well have been a very good reason
they didn't sail. But yeah, when you're down to sort
of maybe three four days, you know, maximum of possible
sailing days left before the results, sort of knowing, you'd probably,
you know, I would imagine now you'd be looking to
take every last day.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Much between the skills of both crews. When it comes
to Mattch tracing, because fancies these new craft as big
as cutting edge as they are. When Bush comes to shove,
it's still Mattch racing, isn't it, Dean?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, the boats certainly this time have become a lot
more focused on the match racing and you see just
what the crews are able to do with the boats.
They're throwing them around a lot more than what they
were in Auckland, are just more and more comfortable with
the systems and everything else. And as a result of that, Yeah,
the Matt tracing element is definitely starting to push you again,
(07:02):
which is great to see. And you know we've seen
in the all the way through the Louis Verton Challenger series,
you saw a lot of different variations of starting and things,
and and it would see that TAM's Aellen has done
a very good job of evaluating what they've seen out
in the water and in the different races, and I
think coming up with different ways to measure it. And
(07:25):
you know, one of the common trends that you know,
we came to expect with any of us guys as
a circle that they do when they enter from from
the port end, and that's actually got them in trouble
now a couple of times where Timm's Yellen's had a
good sort of counter to that, and yeah, it's it's
nice to see. And so for the next races it
will be interesting when any else enter from the port end,
(07:50):
just to see what they are, what their approaches this time,
to see whether they, you know, they've got something up
their sleeve that they're going to try. So yeah, for sure,
it's great to see that the mattch racing coming through
the But I think the one thing we are seeing
is a bit of a common trend is it's very
very difficult to pass. And if a team sort of
gets that sort of eighty to one hundred and fifty
(08:11):
meters in front, it's enough that they can actually start
trying to push other boat back a little bit, and
if they make some good choices, it does make it
very very difficult for the trailing boat, regardless of how
fast they are, to be able to pull off a pass.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And Dean Barker, you've been plenty of regett is, plenty
of America's Cup regattas have Barcelona coat with this? What
kind of event have they put on not only for
the teams, for the fans right across the board? How's
it rated for you?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Barcelona is an amazing city. It's vibrant and there's a
lot going on. And yeah, the one thing I would
say is that, you know, yes, it's been a great event,
but the event's almost a little bit lost in Barcelona
because that is such a big city and so you know, yes,
there's a big element there that are excited about it
and things, but there's also a lot of it, you
(09:05):
know that actually don't actually want the event there. But
it's the sailing is pretty cool. It's challenging, like I
said before, the waves and everything else it makes it
makes it quite tough. The a better time of the
year in Barcelona is certainly that June July August period,
but because of the Olympics this year, it's sort of
(09:26):
is it pushed the Cup a little bit later, sort
of into the a little bit more into autumn, and
it's and so this is sort of creates probably not
the ideal conditions, but you know, still it's a it's
the same for everyone and it's a good test of
the sailing skills. So yeah, like I've really enjoyed. I
had a couple of months here with the Lingy Rebull
racing team and it was yeah, it was really cool
(09:49):
to to sort of to be involved and to see,
you know, everything that was going on there. But yeah,
in terms of the Cup events, you know it's it's
certainly a good one, never going to be as good
as Auckland, but you know, maybe maybe I'm a little
bit biased for that one. That's what I'll.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I wanted you to say. It needs to come home,
doesn't it, Dean, I.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Have to come back here. But you know, like it'll
be interesting, you know, teams Ellen get across the line.
You know, they've obviously made comments about how they went
to Barcelona so they could bring it back to New Zealand.
So let's hope that holds true.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Let's hope so and one last thing, just to wrap
it up nice and quick. Have they got it? Do
you think that Berlin and Chuk and his mates can
get this thing done?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I do.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
They've definitely got the boat. They're sailing well. You know,
I've been impressed with how well they came out of
the blocks, having not raced for I'm guessing about a
month or you know, three weeks or something, you know,
from when they stopped sailing in the round robins to
fronting up for the match. And now I think they
they they look good. They're probably a little bit rattled
after making quite a few little mistakes in the last
(10:56):
two races. But you know, I'm sure they they've been
in a lot of pressure situations before, and I'm sure
they'll respond well. But yeah, they're going to have to
be on their game because that's you know, they let
and he else get another one or two races back
over the next next day or so, it's going to
really keep the heat on.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We'll join now on news Talk z B by Dean
Barker as we talk America's Cup. He's just come back
from Barcelona and his role as a mentor for a
lingy and of course keenly anticipating what's going to come
up overnight when it comes to we're getting down to
crunch time, aren't we, Dean. It was four zip, it's
now four too. She's getting tight there for Team New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well, yeah, it's amazing what a day can do, isn't it.
It's I think everyone was probably a little surprised after
the first couple of or the first four races that
that you know, that Team New Zealand wouldn't have managed
to get at least one one one on that on
the third day. But it's yeah, it's it's it's really interesting.
You know. The thing you Team Zealand had two two
(00:59):
sort of mistakes and the two starts and that that
gave Anios a lead and both obviously and they did
a remarkable job, particularly the second one to get to
four to two to control the race because it still
looked like Team New Zealand had a small advantage and
(01:19):
performance and they were sort of coming back at them
at the end. But it's you know, I think it was.
What was what was great to see was it was
a from a from an aeo's perspective anyway, is that
they were able to control or hold back probably slightly
faster boat.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Laid down Mozire to an agree once Team New Zealand
fell off their foils, it was always going to be
very difficult late into the start box and then it
all kind of went pear shape from then. So it
was just an exercising getting back. But that second race,
Dean and it looked like the New Zealand crew had
the measure of Britannia, but they somehow managed to slither
(01:57):
away great bit of sailing. Fluke what happened there?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
No, it certainly it wasn't Fluke. It's Andy of us
has been an incredible story. You know, the time in
Barcelona where you look back at the preliminary regettors and
they were they were just they were average, you know,
nothing nothing special, and they've just managed to eke every
sort of last bit of performers out of that boat.
And it's the way they turned around. You know, they
(02:22):
obviously dominated us in the semi final and then the
and the lou Verton final against Luna Rossa. They they
sold an incredibly good event where I don't think too
many people had them coming out on top. And yeah,
well I still believe Timmy Zealand has the advantage. It's
there's there's a certainly not a lot in it. And
(02:44):
you know they need to be able to sell good
races to win, and so you know, you let let
any of us guys get in front. They've obviously got
a little bit more confidence back now having taken two races,
so they're going to be you know, they're going to
be hard to beat for sure. It's not a it's
not a case that is turning up. And you know
we saw, you know, like you said, the first the
first race that they they lost teams and lost they
(03:06):
just it all got set up by one sort of
you know, one small era at the beginning. It's been
too early for entry and having to try and slow
down and that sort of compounded into that prestart and
then you know, second one, I think, you know, just
a little misjudgment when they did have a good controlling
position and then we been able to capitalize on it.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
When you look at the relative speeds of the boats,
it looks like that Taihua was better in the light air,
britann You is better than the heavy air. And they
talked a lot about the sea state and the chopping nature.
Is it that defined or it was a little more
nuanced and subtle than that, Dean.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
The boats are incredibly difficult to sail, and to sail
and consistently well and with the sort of extra Yeah,
I guess that. Yeah, as you said, a nuance of waves.
It's not just sort of normal waves. As you get
on the Hurricye golf, you've got a leftover swell at times,
quite often it's offset to the wind direction and it
makes makes foiling really really hard. And it's that does
(04:10):
seem like there's certainly an element of how well each
team is sort of getting dialed in each day, how
well they're managing their boat. And then certainly is that
there's slightly different wind speeds. It does as you say,
I think it does look like any ls probably are
more competitive or slightly more competitive when the breeze is
up a little bit and the lighter winds. It does
look like Teams Zella might sort of favor that slightly more,
(04:33):
but again, the differences are so small and to me
really in watching it just seems like Teams Ellen's ability
to accelerate out of the maneuver is probably their biggest
strength relative to ANYS at the moment, and whether that's
something and he else can improve. You know, they obviously
they're out there trying to get better every day as
we you know, as they talked about after the racing yesterday.
(04:58):
But it's yeah, we'll see, you know, this weekend is
going to be super interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Then Baka joining the program. It's Ben Ainsley at the
end of those two victories said, look, we went out
there on the water and on the lay day you
Blake sat back and went through figures and numbers and
stats and he thinks that may have been a mistake.
So the different attitude and paths I suppose both teams
took in that lay day thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's always an interesting one. It's sort of a little
bit to be made about San Francisco and the fact
that Oracle were always out practicing and things and you know,
we were, you know, the other sort of frame of mind,
you know this time, you know, I think it was
just more probably it was an opportunity for Ben to
t probably play a few little mind games of his own.
(05:46):
But really, each each team has a clear path they're following.
For all we know, Team He's may have wanted to
spend the day doing some work on the boat to
make sure everything was in sort of a good state,
because you know, the boats do deteriorate each day, and
it's it is hard for the shore teams, even though
they are working around the clock to keep the boats
(06:07):
race ready and all the preparation that goes into it.
So they could well have been a very good reason
they didn't sail. But yeah, when you're down to sort
of maybe three four days, you know, maximum of possible
sailing days left before the results, sort of knowing, you'd probably,
you know, I would imagine now you'd be looking to
take every last day.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Much between the skills of both crews. When it comes
to Mattch tracing, because fancies these new craft as big
as cutting edge as they are. When Bush comes to shove,
it's still Mattch racing, isn't it, Dean?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, the boats certainly this time have become a lot
more focused on the match racing and you see just
what the crews are able to do with the boats.
They're throwing them around a lot more than what they
were in Auckland, are just more and more comfortable with
the systems and everything else. And as a result of that, Yeah,
the Matt tracing element is definitely starting to push you again,
(07:02):
which is great to see. And you know we've seen
in the all the way through the Louis Verton Challenger series,
you saw a lot of different variations of starting and things,
and and it would see that TAM's Aellen has done
a very good job of evaluating what they've seen out
in the water and in the different races, and I
think coming up with different ways to measure it. And
(07:25):
you know, one of the common trends that you know,
we came to expect with any of us guys as
a circle that they do when they enter from from
the port end, and that's actually got them in trouble
now a couple of times where Timm's Yellen's had a
good sort of counter to that, and yeah, it's it's
nice to see. And so for the next races it
will be interesting when any else enter from the port end,
(07:50):
just to see what they are, what their approaches this time,
to see whether they, you know, they've got something up
their sleeve that they're going to try. So yeah, for sure,
it's great to see that the mattch racing coming through
the But I think the one thing we are seeing
is a bit of a common trend is it's very
very difficult to pass. And if a team sort of
gets that sort of eighty to one hundred and fifty
(08:11):
meters in front, it's enough that they can actually start
trying to push other boat back a little bit, and
if they make some good choices, it does make it
very very difficult for the trailing boat, regardless of how
fast they are, to be able to pull off a pass.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And Dean Barker, you've been plenty of regett is, plenty
of America's Cup regattas have Barcelona coat with this? What
kind of event have they put on not only for
the teams, for the fans right across the board? How's
it rated for you?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Barcelona is an amazing city. It's vibrant and there's a
lot going on. And yeah, the one thing I would
say is that, you know, yes, it's been a great event,
but the event's almost a little bit lost in Barcelona
because that is such a big city and so you know, yes,
there's a big element there that are excited about it
and things, but there's also a lot of it, you
(09:05):
know that actually don't actually want the event there. But
it's the sailing is pretty cool. It's challenging, like I
said before, the waves and everything else it makes it
makes it quite tough. The a better time of the
year in Barcelona is certainly that June July August period,
but because of the Olympics this year, it's sort of
(09:26):
is it pushed the Cup a little bit later, sort
of into the a little bit more into autumn, and
it's and so this is sort of creates probably not
the ideal conditions, but you know, still it's a it's
the same for everyone and it's a good test of
the sailing skills. So yeah, like I've really enjoyed. I
had a couple of months here with the Lingy Rebull
racing team and it was yeah, it was really cool
(09:49):
to to sort of to be involved and to see,
you know, everything that was going on there. But yeah,
in terms of the Cup events, you know it's it's
certainly a good one, never going to be as good
as Auckland, but you know, maybe maybe I'm a little
bit biased for that one. That's what I'll.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I wanted you to say. It needs to come home,
doesn't it, Dean, I.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Have to come back here. But you know, like it'll
be interesting, you know, teams Ellen get across the line.
You know, they've obviously made comments about how they went
to Barcelona so they could bring it back to New Zealand.
So let's hope that holds true.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Let's hope so and one last thing, just to wrap
it up nice and quick. Have they got it? Do
you think that Berlin and Chuk and his mates can
get this thing done?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I do.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
They've definitely got the boat. They're sailing well. You know,
I've been impressed with how well they came out of
the blocks, having not raced for I'm guessing about a
month or you know, three weeks or something, you know,
from when they stopped sailing in the round robins to
fronting up for the match. And now I think they
they they look good. They're probably a little bit rattled
after making quite a few little mistakes in the last
(10:56):
two races. But you know, I'm sure they they've been
in a lot of pressure situations before, and I'm sure
they'll respond well. But yeah, they're going to have to
be on their game because that's you know, they let
and he else get another one or two races back
over the next next day or so, it's going to
really keep the heat on.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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