August 27, 2025 • 11 mins
Former New Zealand Māori All Blacks, Highlanders and Tasman flanker Shane Christie has died, aged 39.
Christie was forced to retire from professional rugby in 2017 after a string of concussions - and since became a spoken advocate on the subject, offering to donate his brain to help contribute to the research.
D'Arcy spoke with professor of neuroscience at AUT, Doug King, about Christie's death - as well as the research on the impact of head injuries.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Eleven minutes after seven. This is news Talks ABB on
Sports Talk Me Darcy Watergrave. Sad day, Super super sad day.
Sudden passing of Tasman captain Shane Crispy used to be
Shane Christy. The Tasman captain Marty All Black Highlander was
a coach as well, much love in the rugby community.
(00:33):
Like he was forced to retire from pro sport twenty seventeen.
It was a string of concussions and since then he
stood up and spoken around the subject of ct and
around concussion. So the death of his former Tasman teammate
Billy guidon back in twenty three it really hit Christy
(00:56):
hard and after his death they examined his brain. Billy
Goiden was found to have been the first he zient
On bass player to have suffered Stage two see Christy
helped establish the Billy Guiton Foundation last year. Remember CTE
it can only be discovered posthumously, so he joined Geiiton
(01:18):
in offering to donate his brain to the New Zealand
Sports Human Brain Bank for research on the impacts of concussions.
We're joined now by Doug King, professor of neuroscience at
aut extensive knowledge about the impacts of concussions and the
importance of spreading awareness on the topic. Good evening, Doug,
(01:40):
Good evening, are very well. It's been a super sad
day in New Zealand with the passing of Shane Christy.
Of course we know their work that he's been doing
in the CTE space, in the concussion space as well.
You are, being a professor of neuroscience, have done a
lot of work in this space as well. I suppose
(02:01):
first and foremost education are we still pushing this for
this concept that concussion has happened is real? It is
in rugby? Is the education actually out in front? Dug?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The education's out there, but not enough of it. I
keep referring to it being one hundred meters sprint. We're
only at about sixty meters at the moment.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I reckon, what's the reticence?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Why do you think it isn't out there? Because I
think it's widely known amongst the sporting community. This is
a thing. Twenty years ago it wasn't, but it is now,
So why they're holding.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Back twenty years ago, the concussions were still there, but
the people weren't as big a fit as strong. And
since the professionalism of rugby union, that's when we've seen
the big differences come in. It's also changed the way
that they've managed it and it's become more of a
notice of paul injury. The problem is that everyone thinks
that it's a it's okay to go out there and
(02:56):
play and get bashed around, and also the way that
they manage the concussions. I believe that we're not doing
it the justice that it actually deserves.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
They have a small stand down period if you are
can cuss, they go through the HIH situation. They determine
that they step you down for a couple of weeks.
Is that not enough? Does there need to be more?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yes, it does need to be more.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I mean research, I've done research that Steve Caurrow has
done and recent research Whale and Pierce over in Australia
have identified that a minimum of twenty eight days for
any concussion is required before they actually go.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Back to training and doing everything else.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I'm of a personal belief that if you've got a
broken arm, you've got a cast on it. We can
X ray it and see that it doesn't hell. But
if the symptoms go away normally in about eight to
ten days, So if we're going to treat a brain
like a broken arm, then why don't we just take
the cast off at ten days because we all know
we're going to rebreak it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
How much more are we learning about CTE? We know
it is prevalent. There's a lot of research by yourself,
it'd Stephen Kara, are Mutually Human the like too, So
it's out there. Are we're making advances on understand this more.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
There's recent advances going into what it is and how
it's affecting people and what's going on. The difficulty is
trying to identify it from an early age, and that's
what everyone's now scrambling for as to how can we
identify this. I think we need to even go a
step further and look at how we can manage the
(04:30):
concussions previously. And it's not just sports concussion. I mean
sports only accounts for about twenty percent of all the
acc claims in this country.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So we need to look at.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
What we're doing with the whole management to actually before
we even develop CTE. And it's even identified in papers
published recently in domestic violence that CTE has been prevalent
in some females that have been victims of US.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
From a sporting perspective, from a rugby perspective, you identified
what it takes to start ct often at what age
and is there any a sex of society, male female
youth that they're more open to experiencing the effects of
this three head knocks.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, there's a variety of thing.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I mean, studies that have come out from the States
through the Boston Brain Bank have shown that there were
more people with CTE that had contact sports such as
tackling prior to the age of twelve.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Than over the age of twelve.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So there's a factor that they come into play and
that's why they like football is saying let's stop the
heading at age twelve to fourteen. It's the other areas
that females suffer more concussions of a longer duration and
have more symptoms simply because of the biology of them,
can win compared to males.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So there's not just one factor.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
There's a variety of factors that are going on that
can cause these injuries and can cause complications from them.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You've got a child playing the game starts off at
a young age. You're aware of this issue. What can
you do not to shield your child from that, because
obviously just say don't play the game, But what should
you put in place as a parent to make sure
that your child is going to be in the best
position not to attract this? Is there such a thing
(06:17):
can you do that?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I would personally like to see things such as say
rip a rugby until age twelve that they're not tackling,
they're learning that and they're learning a technique by going
around the wate, which is where the tackle should be.
So that's a learned response that's going to help them
in the later life. The concussion management should be longer.
You actually take longer off and become more aware that
(06:39):
it's not just a simple bang on the head and
that we can do more with them. So there's other
areas that you know, concussion recovery. Every concussion should be
actually managed through some medical service. So we need more
post concussion services out there. I mean that's in an
ideal world, we just don't have it.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
You feel like that with World Rugby as the overlor
the main global body and admission that there is a
connect between the game, between tackling, between fending off elbow
to the head, and there is a direct link between
ct and their game because they feel it to be appeter,
(07:19):
be of it reticent for one of a better word, doug.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
They're using the Oxford Clinical criteria for causative effects, and
based on that criteria, there is no direct clinical indication
of repetitive headbacks, head impacts and CTE. But if we
look at the Bradford Hall criteria, which is what we
use for smoking, then where there is direct link causal
(07:43):
links between exposure and the outcomes of CTA. So it
depends on what they use as to how you are
actually going to explain or not explain what's going on.
There is a big resistance by rugby to actually identify
this simply because it may do damage to the game.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You look at the class accident's coming up in British rugby,
likes of Carl Hayman and so on and so forth
involved in that. This is frightening as for rugby World
rugby and even local rugby like in New Zealand and
Australia as well. The ripples of that will be huge.
(08:22):
You think with that they would stand up and go
you know what, there is actually a problem. We need
to address this. You can't keep running from it.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
No, you can't keep running from it.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I mean the thing is that these people go out
there and they play professionally, and they're only playing professionally.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
While they're usable, while they're workable within their role.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
If they become damaged, gods and they become unprofessional, so
they go back to the amateur ranks. So you don't
see these issues at the professional level. You see them
at lower levels. And it's the long term effects that
we see here in New Zealand through ACC. We've got
to pick up the damage afterwards. Overseas, there isn't anything
like ACC, so it's up to the professional bodies do
(09:03):
and they have to look after them. And I think
that's so that's fast coming in this country. It needs
to be looked at. You're going to put these people
out there, you're going to play them, and you're going
to make money off them, then you need to look
after them for a whole of life.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
How do you see this evolving? What happens over the
next two to three, ten, twelve, twenty years, Doug.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I don't know. It depends on what a lot of
the research comes out with.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I mean, I would like to see a longer concussion
management protocol.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I would like to see what.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
They do at the professional level they do at the
amateur level, because these kids look at what's going on
on TV.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
And think that they can do the same thing.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
For example, I was at a recent trials for a
professional sport and I had this young kid, he was
under the age of fourteen, who been knocked out. He
was clearly knocked out on the field, and I ruled
him out from participating any further. The people got so
upset about the fact that this kid couldn't go on
to a further trial game that day that they tried
(10:02):
to overrule me by getting other people to step into it.
That's how big importance these people are seeing these professional
sports out not their kids' lives, but the fact that
they may miss an opportunity. There issues like that that
we need to start getting rid off. And yes, it's
nice to have trials and competitions, but we're doing too much.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
At a super rugby, at an international rugby, at the
MPC rugby level, what they have in place or regards
standowns regards HIA protocols. Are they doing enough in that,
because from time to time you see it and you
go the guy's knocked out. What is going on here?
Do you think they maybe need to be a firmer
(10:43):
hand from the ruling body?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yes, I do, I really do, and I believe that
they need to have a longer time. I've always asked
people out there, how come a professional brain recovers quicker
than an amateur brain. How can you put these people
back out on the field sooner at the professional level,
And don't tell me it's because there's doctors, minl tringers.
They still take the locks, all take the bends. Why
(11:08):
are they doing that? Whereas at the amateur level we
can put them through doctors and everything else, and they're
required to take longer to recover.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
the'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Eleven minutes after seven. This is news Talks ABB on
Sports Talk Me Darcy Watergrave. Sad day, Super super sad day.
Sudden passing of Tasman captain Shane Crispy used to be
Shane Christy. The Tasman captain Marty All Black Highlander was
a coach as well, much love in the rugby community.
(00:33):
Like he was forced to retire from pro sport twenty seventeen.
It was a string of concussions and since then he
stood up and spoken around the subject of ct and
around concussion. So the death of his former Tasman teammate
Billy guidon back in twenty three it really hit Christy
(00:56):
hard and after his death they examined his brain. Billy
Goiden was found to have been the first he zient
On bass player to have suffered Stage two see Christy
helped establish the Billy Guiton Foundation last year. Remember CTE
it can only be discovered posthumously, so he joined Geiiton
(01:18):
in offering to donate his brain to the New Zealand
Sports Human Brain Bank for research on the impacts of concussions.
We're joined now by Doug King, professor of neuroscience at
aut extensive knowledge about the impacts of concussions and the
importance of spreading awareness on the topic. Good evening, Doug,
(01:40):
Good evening, are very well. It's been a super sad
day in New Zealand with the passing of Shane Christy.
Of course we know their work that he's been doing
in the CTE space, in the concussion space as well.
You are, being a professor of neuroscience, have done a
lot of work in this space as well. I suppose
(02:01):
first and foremost education are we still pushing this for
this concept that concussion has happened is real? It is
in rugby? Is the education actually out in front? Dug?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The education's out there, but not enough of it. I
keep referring to it being one hundred meters sprint. We're
only at about sixty meters at the moment.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I reckon, what's the reticence?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Why do you think it isn't out there? Because I
think it's widely known amongst the sporting community. This is
a thing. Twenty years ago it wasn't, but it is now,
So why they're holding.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Back twenty years ago, the concussions were still there, but
the people weren't as big a fit as strong. And
since the professionalism of rugby union, that's when we've seen
the big differences come in. It's also changed the way
that they've managed it and it's become more of a
notice of paul injury. The problem is that everyone thinks
that it's a it's okay to go out there and
(02:56):
play and get bashed around, and also the way that
they manage the concussions. I believe that we're not doing
it the justice that it actually deserves.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
They have a small stand down period if you are
can cuss, they go through the HIH situation. They determine
that they step you down for a couple of weeks.
Is that not enough? Does there need to be more?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yes, it does need to be more.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I mean research, I've done research that Steve Caurrow has
done and recent research Whale and Pierce over in Australia
have identified that a minimum of twenty eight days for
any concussion is required before they actually go.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Back to training and doing everything else.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I'm of a personal belief that if you've got a
broken arm, you've got a cast on it. We can
X ray it and see that it doesn't hell. But
if the symptoms go away normally in about eight to
ten days, So if we're going to treat a brain
like a broken arm, then why don't we just take
the cast off at ten days because we all know
we're going to rebreak it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
How much more are we learning about CTE? We know
it is prevalent. There's a lot of research by yourself,
it'd Stephen Kara, are Mutually Human the like too, So
it's out there. Are we're making advances on understand this more.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
There's recent advances going into what it is and how
it's affecting people and what's going on. The difficulty is
trying to identify it from an early age, and that's
what everyone's now scrambling for as to how can we
identify this. I think we need to even go a
step further and look at how we can manage the
(04:30):
concussions previously. And it's not just sports concussion. I mean
sports only accounts for about twenty percent of all the
acc claims in this country.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So we need to look at.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
What we're doing with the whole management to actually before
we even develop CTE. And it's even identified in papers
published recently in domestic violence that CTE has been prevalent
in some females that have been victims of US.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
From a sporting perspective, from a rugby perspective, you identified
what it takes to start ct often at what age
and is there any a sex of society, male female
youth that they're more open to experiencing the effects of
this three head knocks.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, there's a variety of thing.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I mean, studies that have come out from the States
through the Boston Brain Bank have shown that there were
more people with CTE that had contact sports such as
tackling prior to the age of twelve.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Than over the age of twelve.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So there's a factor that they come into play and
that's why they like football is saying let's stop the
heading at age twelve to fourteen. It's the other areas
that females suffer more concussions of a longer duration and
have more symptoms simply because of the biology of them,
can win compared to males.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So there's not just one factor.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
There's a variety of factors that are going on that
can cause these injuries and can cause complications from them.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You've got a child playing the game starts off at
a young age. You're aware of this issue. What can
you do not to shield your child from that, because
obviously just say don't play the game, But what should
you put in place as a parent to make sure
that your child is going to be in the best
position not to attract this? Is there such a thing
(06:17):
can you do that?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I would personally like to see things such as say
rip a rugby until age twelve that they're not tackling,
they're learning that and they're learning a technique by going
around the wate, which is where the tackle should be.
So that's a learned response that's going to help them
in the later life. The concussion management should be longer.
You actually take longer off and become more aware that
(06:39):
it's not just a simple bang on the head and
that we can do more with them. So there's other
areas that you know, concussion recovery. Every concussion should be
actually managed through some medical service. So we need more
post concussion services out there. I mean that's in an
ideal world, we just don't have it.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
You feel like that with World Rugby as the overlor
the main global body and admission that there is a
connect between the game, between tackling, between fending off elbow
to the head, and there is a direct link between
ct and their game because they feel it to be appeter,
(07:19):
be of it reticent for one of a better word, doug.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
They're using the Oxford Clinical criteria for causative effects, and
based on that criteria, there is no direct clinical indication
of repetitive headbacks, head impacts and CTE. But if we
look at the Bradford Hall criteria, which is what we
use for smoking, then where there is direct link causal
(07:43):
links between exposure and the outcomes of CTA. So it
depends on what they use as to how you are
actually going to explain or not explain what's going on.
There is a big resistance by rugby to actually identify
this simply because it may do damage to the game.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You look at the class accident's coming up in British rugby,
likes of Carl Hayman and so on and so forth
involved in that. This is frightening as for rugby World
rugby and even local rugby like in New Zealand and
Australia as well. The ripples of that will be huge.
(08:22):
You think with that they would stand up and go
you know what, there is actually a problem. We need
to address this. You can't keep running from it.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
No, you can't keep running from it.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I mean the thing is that these people go out
there and they play professionally, and they're only playing professionally.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
While they're usable, while they're workable within their role.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
If they become damaged, gods and they become unprofessional, so
they go back to the amateur ranks. So you don't
see these issues at the professional level. You see them
at lower levels. And it's the long term effects that
we see here in New Zealand through ACC. We've got
to pick up the damage afterwards. Overseas, there isn't anything
like ACC, so it's up to the professional bodies do
(09:03):
and they have to look after them. And I think
that's so that's fast coming in this country. It needs
to be looked at. You're going to put these people
out there, you're going to play them, and you're going
to make money off them, then you need to look
after them for a whole of life.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
How do you see this evolving? What happens over the
next two to three, ten, twelve, twenty years, Doug.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I don't know. It depends on what a lot of
the research comes out with.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I mean, I would like to see a longer concussion
management protocol.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I would like to see what.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
They do at the professional level they do at the
amateur level, because these kids look at what's going on
on TV.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
And think that they can do the same thing.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
For example, I was at a recent trials for a
professional sport and I had this young kid, he was
under the age of fourteen, who been knocked out. He
was clearly knocked out on the field, and I ruled
him out from participating any further. The people got so
upset about the fact that this kid couldn't go on
to a further trial game that day that they tried
(10:02):
to overrule me by getting other people to step into it.
That's how big importance these people are seeing these professional
sports out not their kids' lives, but the fact that
they may miss an opportunity. There issues like that that
we need to start getting rid off. And yes, it's
nice to have trials and competitions, but we're doing too much.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
At a super rugby, at an international rugby, at the
MPC rugby level, what they have in place or regards
standowns regards HIA protocols. Are they doing enough in that,
because from time to time you see it and you
go the guy's knocked out. What is going on here?
Do you think they maybe need to be a firmer
(10:43):
hand from the ruling body?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yes, I do, I really do, and I believe that
they need to have a longer time. I've always asked
people out there, how come a professional brain recovers quicker
than an amateur brain. How can you put these people
back out on the field sooner at the professional level,
And don't tell me it's because there's doctors, minl tringers.
They still take the locks, all take the bends. Why
(11:08):
are they doing that? Whereas at the amateur level we
can put them through doctors and everything else, and they're
required to take longer to recover.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
the'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.