November 13, 2024 • 42 mins
ZB's own D'Arcy Waldegrave returns to cap off the week in the wonderful world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
- Chris Lendrum - GM of Professional Rugby at NZR - Is the All Blacks talent spread evenly across Super Rugby?
- Andrew Hore - Blues CEO - Are the Blues hoarding first fives?
- Talkback
- Mike Hesson - Former Blackcaps coach - On the opening ODI against Sri Lanka tonight...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Ooh yeah, here we go Sports Talk this News Talks
B and Darcy Water gave hello. Coming up seven after seven,
will call it. It's Wednesday, November thirteen, twenty twenty four.
Coming up this evening on Sports Talk Rugby, rugby, cricket.
(00:54):
What a warm cuddle letter is? Indeed, we'll fut it's
the program off. Talking with Mike Hessen, former head coach
of the Black Caps. Do you know that black Caps
haven't played one day in to night since December the
twenty third last year?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And they lost and it was Bangladesh. I want to
haven't gone back playing tonight playing again stri Lanka. Mike
Kessen will talk about that, touch with it on the
black capsure turn to the plunket shield as well. Before
that though, were double header on rugby union and the
interesting story around the stock piling of first five eighths
(01:36):
by the Blues. Well, the Crusaders used to do it.
What's the problem. Is there a problem with this doings
in our care? Are they doing anything to stop it?
We'll talk with Chris Lendrum. You selling rugby as a
general manager of professional rugby and Performance. And we'll catch
up with a man in charge of the stockpiling at
Auckland Andrew Wore, the Blues chief executive officer, And then
(01:59):
we'll take your calls on that. Does all black talent
need to be spread around? Does that sound a bit communist?
Or you may be is this creating depth issues? Your
thoughts on our one hundred and eighty ten eighty up
after we hear from those two characters, but before that,
this sport Today's sport Today, Liam Larsa just because yeah,
(02:23):
race cars. The VCRBF one peddler knows exactly what is
required in his role. Friends, Yeah, now wins let's goal.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I'm not here to make enemies. I'm not here to
cause issues. But obviously, every time I'm in the car
and i'm driving, I'm trying to do the best stob
I can. So I'm not going to put a relationship
with somebody over that. And you know, I have these
six races a very very important and I don't have
all the time in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
What's the DT this year is all black breakout? Loose
Ford success story knows the season is a closing that
he needs to keep firmly focused on the right here
right now.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I think you know where to sort of becking of
our tour now and I know I think it's plus
safe focused on and I stay on time, and you
really show how we care about our game.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Gary's dead black Caps coach will keep a beady eye
on the team's at newbies of the next three One
day internationals versus Sri Lanka.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
We're always interested in how players who haven't been at
this level do perform and how their skill sets I
guess merry up. So it's always a little bit of
a selection conundrum, I guess when you select new guys
and you want them to perform immediately as well.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Indeed, and that's the Sport Today story.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
We're talking around the allocation of players throughout Super Rugby
based on in this case the Blues and their healthy
quiver of first five eighths, although a couple of the
first five eights slash fullbacks and one of them is
the second five eights who just moved into that jersey.
(04:00):
But other franchises, other fan groups are looking a little
jealous at the fact that they've got all these fantastic
players in a key position. They, of course are Harry Plummer,
the second, the first. We've got Steven Pirafeft who plays
fullback and number ten, and the returning Boden Barrett who
takes both.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
Roles as well.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So that's three all black, first five and eights all
in the one franchises. Is that fair and right? Does
it cause an issue as far as developing other players
in the long term? Do they need to spread the
riches of first five, eighth to help encourage depth in
(04:41):
that position? Lots of conversation around this. Do they need
to be forced to offload some of these players? Does
it even actually matter? Who's responsible for this? Does New
Zealand Rugby care and are they going to do anything
about it? We're going to find out now because we're
talking with Chris Ningem. He is hel On Rugby, General
manager of Professional Rugby and Performance. He joins us, now,
(05:05):
welcome to you, Chris. So what's New Zealand Rugby's position
on how players should be distributed throughout the super rugby teams?
Speaker 8 (05:15):
DARSI.
Speaker 9 (05:15):
Yeah, Well, the first thing I'd say is great that
people are engaged in talking about our squads with such energy,
So that's weird tens have resided across New Zealand's been
a part of Super rugby history for over twenty years,
I guess, so it's pleasing to see in some ways
people taking a view on all of this in the
(05:36):
last twenty four hours. Look fundamentally, our view is that
the players get to determine where they want to play
under contract, and we don't really take a view as
an organization. We actually can't offer a player any more
from New Zealand rugby in terms of an All Blacks
(05:58):
top up depending on where they're playing their rugby, So
we can't say to them you'd be worth more to
us if you went down south or came up north
or whatever. We just want to create an environment where
players make decisions based around the best opportunity for them,
you know, and kind of let it go from there.
(06:19):
It's important that the players have agency and where they
decide to play in their own careers. So it's our approach.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You've got to develop talent first five eight. We know
how important that role is and so to spread the riches,
I suppose we look at someone like Malachi not wrong position,
but he disappeared from Blues to go down South Wale
and then he became an All Black. But you can't
determine that the players will make that decision because you're thinking,
(06:48):
surely it's better to have someone playing than sitting on
a bench watching someone else play.
Speaker 9 (06:53):
I think Maloka is a great example does because he
saw that opportunity wasn't going to get access at the
Blues and actually in that case, the two clubs work
together to cracker deal, and you're right, he then became
a Highlanders legend, didn't they in an All Black? Wassaki
Naholo was similar around the same time. So these things
(07:15):
do happen, and players will seek to move for playing opportunity,
but there's a whole range of factors that go into
their decision making. Obviously access to opportunity as one. There
might be family or personal reasons they're important for them
to be in a particular venue, And like I said,
I think it's just important that the players are able
to weigh that up independent of any organization trying to
(07:39):
be the invisible hand moving them around. That's sort of
not the way our employment model and our partnership with
our players is geared up here and look heads off
to the Blues in this instance, you know, they've got
three real quality players in terms of the three that
people are talking about, Boden, Steven Harry obviously, but it's
(08:01):
only in the last few months that Harry's becoming all black.
They can all play multiple csis. You know, both Stephen
and Bowden can play ten and fifteen. And the Blues
have done a great job of succession planning in that space,
and we want to reward and enable clubs to again
have ownership of their succession planning. They've done a good
(08:22):
job in this space, as other clubs have done in
the past and other areas. So it's part of the
competition and happy with how it's played out here.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Ouri Chris Lendrum placed around the depth of talent. I
won't say crisis because that's a horrible word, but insed
are and across the super clubs happy enough with the
players that are there are about to step up because
we know that spot's been dominated for a few years
by a couple of outstanding players. But have we got
(08:55):
the talent coming through in the next couple of years.
Speaker 9 (08:57):
Do you think? Oh, I think we're really happy. I
mean it's easy and we're as guilty as this as
administrator and talent spotters, as anybody else, any fan or
commentator of thinking about players and thinking about them were
really static mindset. And look at Harry Plumber last year.
(09:20):
You know, not many people probably would have put Harry
in the discussion around at ten at the All Blacks
and he had a terrific Super Rugby campaign and now
he's in that discussion. These guys just don't stay at
the same point dusk. They improve and grow and evolve,
we hope over time with good coaching and good environments
(09:40):
wrapped around them. At Super Rugby and NPC level, you
always would love more depth than any given position. But
at ten, you know, we're a better question for our
All Blacks coaches probably, but we're pretty comfortable. You know,
they're a really good twenties campaign. We've got some young
players filtering through now into Super Rugby from NPC.
Speaker 10 (10:00):
You know, Josh.
Speaker 9 (10:00):
Jacob was a name that not many people knew about
fifteen months ago. He's just been away with the All
Blacks fifteen. You know, Steven himself has had a long
seven Para Fetis, had a long career at Super rugby
level from hell back with injury. He's coming good consistently
now as well. There's lots to be to be really
(10:21):
excited about in that space. So we're just focused on
improving and supporting the players who are here to get
better and comfortable with where we're at for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Chris, always great to have you on. You've got to
finish this at this time of year. There's always a
debate that raises his head around changing the model and
looking at a draft instead. Is that ever considered happy
enough with the model you've got. Did you look at
it from year to year and say, hey, maybe this
needs to be adjusted.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
It's not something that's a priority for us right now.
We know all about the drafts that happen in other sports.
We know that we're done in a certain way. Drafts
and options create fans, spectacle and interest. Totally get all
of that that is of interest to us in the
long term. But when you're also fielding an international team
whose job it is to win every time they take
(11:14):
the field, you've just got to balance all of the
dynamics in your system and make sure it's right for you.
Right So a draft could work conceivably in super rugby
in the future. It's not something we're closed off to
at all. We'll keep chatting with Super Rugby Pacific Competition
and Rugby Australia and Fiji, sam or Tonga, but it
(11:37):
needs to be done when you know, it needs to
be considered at a time when all those unions are
in a position of strength and have a high performance
system that can underpin up. So not saying never at all.
We remain open minded, but it's not on the agenda
for the near team US.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It's a rugby general manager when it comes to the
professional and performance side of it. From nza's name is
Chris Lendram. Looking at the share of the talent across
the franchises and the possible stock piling in the Blues region,
which brings us to our next guest, Andrew Whore. He's
the chief executive officer of the Blues. Andrew, thanks for
(12:21):
joining us. First question, there are accusations that you guys
are with the stockpiling first five eighths. What do you
say to that?
Speaker 11 (12:31):
Well, absolute rubbish and I think if there's wherever you
are in the country, there's always it was locks for
the Chiefs at one stage, right it was the Crusaders
were tens a few years ago what we're focused on
is making an environment that people want to stay here
and getting our development moving. And if it was only
(12:56):
a few years ago people were shutting out that Plumber
should leave so and it was actually Leon who had
faith that Harry would come through. And I think from
there Arn's got the best out of them beyond that.
So this is about development. It's about doing that well,
(13:18):
and you've got to reward good development. We've done it
for long enough with one other franchise in particular, and
I'm not here to make friends and send players around
the country when we're trying to do our best that
we can do to make an environment where people want
to stay and come to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And that reward is not only for the player, but
for the franchise too.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
It works.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You don't do this just for them, You do it
for them and yourselves and the fan base.
Speaker 11 (13:44):
Correct And you know other franchises, Lucas Cashmore moved from
here and It's gone to the Hurricanes and the Boy
Morgan's gone to Ireland. So there are people around. It's
about doing your homework, finding those young people and putting
them into a program that brings them through and your
right if we do the work. Then it does make
(14:06):
it easier for your succession planning. People may argue that's
what we weren't doing before, Well you can't argue when
we're starting to do it and their moon. We're very
proud of the work that's gone here for a number
of people, and we believe we've got to keep going
and keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
See the Blues, Andrew Hard joins us so in z
don't lean on you. The all black coaching staff don't
lean on you. You're free to do what you want
to do and make the choices you want to make
along with the playing stuff.
Speaker 11 (14:36):
Yet, yes, and I think the key here is the
players have choice and what happens here, and also I
think they appreciate that injuries happen, rotation has to happen
of these players, and that's why we're looking, you know,
Harry page twelve, as you said, and you know, even
voting Canada a pinch along with along with fifteen and
(14:59):
so on. So you need depth in your squads. But
if you look around our competition, it's got strength and depth.
Burn's talked about it's the best competition in the world.
So just that some things at present point in time
in certain positions have depth in those certain positions, and
that's always going to be the case.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
You'd always hear drums beating for a draft. This has
been going around for a long long time. Engine are
un opposed to it, but they're going to climb into
it straight away. Is there a place for a draft
system in super Rugby?
Speaker 12 (15:29):
Do you think, Andrew, We're open to discussing that. I
think though there's a couple of things that people throw
that around and don't understand the consequences of such a right.
So the first thing is if you start a draft,
you start to penalize those that are investing in development.
And our role that we've adopted is we're going to
(15:51):
develop talent. Right everyone said, can't keep hold of it.
Speaker 11 (15:54):
We used to remember when I first come here, you
lose all your talent moan mode. Okay, so now we're
investing and we're keeping that talent, and those young people
are driving the benefit hopefully from being six full and
they'll move through. So the first thing you got to
work out is, well, how do you reward people to
do development, because otherwise those that don't do any derive
(16:15):
the benefit of your hard work. And the second thing is,
and that is I'm comfortable to talk about it more.
But how do we then get the commercial model to
work so that everybody gets rewarded as well from that
commercial widel So who to do it with Australia the
bigger economy, So how do we then move the commercial
inventory about so that our commission can make money and
(16:39):
then dish that money out equally or not equally, depending
on who's doing the development. So there's some bigger issues
that you've got to put into context and just oh well,
if we make a draft everything, we'll be fine in
the garden. The consequences could be a lot more dire
than what you think. So it needs to be carefully
thought out and there are some great models around the
(17:00):
world that we can look at that can give us
the answers to that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Three. Even that was the chief executive officer of the
Blues Super Rugby franchise, Andrew Whore, talking about the stockpiling
apparently of first five eighth the possibility of a draft system,
which Chris Lendrum touched on as well. Not out of
the question. Possibly the issue you have there though, was
what the Incenter Rugby Players Association would say about that
(17:29):
form of selection whether that would work for them, And
that's a fair enough point. So stockpiling players does should
injed our roll in here, spread the all black talent
around Super Rugby with the thought process that there are
depth positions in positions at the moment, let's say first
(17:53):
five eighth because the quality players aren't spread, so you
have a backlog of players playing for the one position
in one franchise, so they don't get the experience whereas
one of them went to the Highlanders for example. They'll
be out in the field every week. Suddenly they've become experienced.
(18:13):
I say no, absolutely not. New Zealand Rugby have already
got the whip hand over all of this. They've got
all the player contracts, They run the competition. It's their baby.
And they used to back in the day when Super
Rugby first started, spread the talent all around the place.
The best players will all get a position regardless wherever
(18:34):
they were, be it in Auckland or Canterbury and blah
blah blah. And that's changed, it's morphed over the years.
And I think that in order to get some form
of decent tribal engagement with the teams, you can't from
above say you're going there, You're going there, You're going there,
(18:56):
You're going there. Because life's not fair and sport's not fair.
These things go and swings and around for a while.
The Crusaders had all this fantastic gone now and there
are complaints about the Highlanders. Look, they've got no all blacks,
they've got no one they need to share the love,
No to the Highlanders have got to get off their
(19:19):
ass and then find some players, or develop some players,
or make it worthwhile for players to go to Eden
and live down there. Exactly what Andrew Hall was saying.
We've developed our players, who've worked of our players, and
we're not giving them up. There's been too much done
for our franchise to get these here and we're not
(19:40):
giving up. And the Saders would say the same thing.
And the Hurricanes have maybe got the next generation of
fantastic players too, so they will dominate maybe in a
few years. This is competition, This is a good thing.
I like your thoughts on that. Oh eight one hundred
and eighty ten eighty should JITed our step in and
spread the talent? I say absolutely not. They're doing the
(20:02):
right things. Let strength develop and players make their own
desc decisions depending on the opportunities that they get. You
can't tell people what to do or where to play.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Twenty six minutes after seven O eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is injured our step in? Do they need
to spread the love if you will around Super rugby
with players? This is News Talks AIRB. Looking forward to
your call coming up next.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Have your say on eight hundred eighty ten eighty Sports
Talk more on your home of Sports News Talks it B.
Speaker 10 (20:51):
What a track.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Twenty nine and after seven sports looking on News Talks
AIRB calls are counting. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty free phone nationwide? Do we ended our need to
climb on in and spread the love things a bit more?
Even Stevens stop teams like the Blues securing and dragging
all the first fives of any quality to their franchise.
(21:14):
I don't even it should at all? It Let it go.
It's going that's me anyway, Derek writes. The player's contracts
sit with the New Zealand Rugby so they will play
wherever they're told nice thought Derek won't happen and again
New Zealand Rugby Players Association. And you can't tell someone
to go and live somewhere they don't want to live
(21:35):
and expect the best out of them as a rugby player.
I'll say, you know, to move from all your friends
and family from Hamilton and we're going to take it
out of Christy there. You go set up down there
and play your best rugby, but I hate it down here.
Don't care where the ends that are. We play your
ages you, but I don't want to play anymore because
I miss my partner. My mum can't do it. You
(21:59):
tell people what to do and where to play. It
doesn't work. Get a Stephen, How are you, oh not.
Speaker 13 (22:05):
Too be in the office of just hitting home? Yeh yeah,
I don't think you can force the players to go through.
But I'll tell you this, if you were if I
was like in Harry Plumber Shoes right, and you your
preferred position as number ten, he's going to have to
fight it out between body Beard and yeah, body Bear
(22:28):
is going to be the incumbent. So the smart money
while I was in the boots, I'll be going well.
Targo is looking for you know, experienced number ten.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I'll try man, which is what man? I can't think
you don'd it right?
Speaker 7 (22:43):
Yeah, I mean I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But that's his choice. This is not an edict from
up above going you must play in Dunedin. You can't
do that, make that choice. Actually, I bet myself to
not bode and bear off office seat because I'm bigger.
And also of course I've got injury which always turns
up and ruins everything. You lose those three players in
the first two weeks, it's like, well, like we've gotten
(23:07):
back up.
Speaker 13 (23:09):
But I think you know, if a franchise wants to
track players, yeah, like you mentioned, they have to make
it a tractor for them. And it's hard if you
if you're not consistently playing like in the finals, you know,
like like let's say Otago, it makes it difficult for
players to be a track. But you've got to bangle
a different character, you know, want them to come over to,
(23:32):
you know, to to deflect over from the big smoke
of Aorbland to someone like I said, I'm just getting
just using the needed the tager Holanders as an example,
because they've only got a handful of Wallbacks and yeah,
they're just yeah, they could probably do with some experience,
I suppose.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, And I think that is on the club, the franchise.
What if you like to call them to create a culture,
environment and atmosphere where people do succeed and they want
to come. Stephen, I'll take you back a few years
now when the Helanders thought that essentially by themselves a title.
They might't argue with that phrasing, but they stuffed their
(24:11):
team full of crash hot all blacks that came home
from all over the place. It was a disaster. There
was no culture, no one really they thought they'll win
by design. We're here anyway, we're not going and it
was terrible. Then they guessed a lot of them started
from scratch, build a culture and won a title. It's
not hard.
Speaker 14 (24:29):
That th Nope, Yeah, yep, that's that is fere because
you you know, I think people just assume, you know,
you stake it with a would start players you know
you're in, but you need a pretty good system in
coach to implement it and their discipline. So I think
they've got a good start with Jamie Joseph coming back.
That's a that's definitely a good start yep, and just
(24:51):
build from there. So I think if you're an aspiring
rugby player, now is a good time to, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Get out of your confortation and go to Dunedin and
make an effort and having effect. Stephen, thanks very much
for your call that one hundred and eighty ten eighty,
Your calls are coming. It's seven thirty four. Oh we
go to Johnny now, good evening.
Speaker 15 (25:12):
Yeah, Hi, Darcy has it going forward?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
How about yourself?
Speaker 15 (25:16):
Yeah, I'm doing all right. You kind of said what
I was going to say a very long suffering Highlanders
fan and that that season when Manu and Andrew Horen
that came to the Highlanders, that was a disaster. They
didn't want to be there. None who was jogging around
the field. It made me so furious. I thought he
should have lost his all blecks jersey the way you know,
(25:37):
he didn't play for the Highlander.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He didn't work, did it? Oh you were then when
draguall then we're going to make a super team. We're
going to win, and no one really cared and yet
the culture team exactly.
Speaker 15 (25:50):
But it didn't work the other way either, because in
two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight they decided
that they were only going to pick players from the
from the Otago Southend catchment and you know, no no outsiders,
and that was a disare as well. We finished like
tenth out of twelve teams or something.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So you know, well, I think we all want to
see strong franchises, but I don't think you can fabricate that.
I think it becomes artificial and you need it. And
it goes back to that word again, team and culture
and people wanting to be there.
Speaker 15 (26:26):
Right, they're kind of thinking, like English football, you know,
just buy enough stars and clunk them together and hopefully
it'll work, you know, But yeah, it doesn't work. So yeah,
I'd love to know what the answer is, because if
you make the players go there, which essentially was what happened,
you know, and it was a disaster. And then, like
I say, when they decided they're only going to do
(26:46):
players from their own region, that didn't work either. So yeah,
I don't know what the answer is. But forcing people
to go somewhere they don't want to go, it's just
won't work because they just won't play.
Speaker 16 (26:56):
Well.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
You're not going to get the best out of the
may because they're not going to be happy. You're an
unhappy person in any environment. Whatever they're doing, they're not
going to give you their best. It's not going to happen.
I'm not sure what what the solution to this is,
but the other thought processes.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
Is it really.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Greedy? Is it stockpiling? Is it ring fencing the best
players in the country and keeping them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
At the bills?
Speaker 7 (27:24):
Not?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
They play in a number of different positions and one
bad injury. Oh hold on, we need all these guys.
The Blues are not around to look after the interests
of all black rugby, even though Super Rugby feeds toward
all black rugby. They are there to win titles for
their fans and their sponsors. That's what they're there to do.
(27:53):
They're not going to play second fittled to anyone just
because someone thinks it's slightly unfair that they've done a
Crusaders and flog of the first five eightes. Anyone complain
about that a few years ago? Besides, everybody is his
news talks there be it is twenty three minutes away
from eight. More of your calls, more of your texts
coming up next here on Sports Talk.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Because you make me feel the can of Rubi. We
were feeling so good. Have we got a little.
Speaker 7 (28:31):
Now we've rather shit.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
We were singing way lots we.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Were doing at eight sports Talk here and newstalkzb OH
one hundred and eighty ten eighty lines are open. If
you'd like to text, you can nineteen nine two ZBZB.
The standard text charge does apply to that transaction. Run
through some text for you, shortly talking about the distribution
of all black talent equally through the five franchises and
(29:03):
Super Rugby. No no, no, no, Hi Graham, how are
you good?
Speaker 17 (29:10):
Thanks? Second second night in the row after Hassel your Darcy.
But yeah, I agreed with both the opening, me and
Chris Bendram and Andrew Hrer. Richard Nola wrote the article.
I mean, yeah, it was quite a good article, but
I didn't agree with it, even though it's been interpreted
(29:30):
by some people that's coming from here. It came from
a guy that works here. But it wasn't the Crusaders
or any of the fans that I know, because I know,
and I think the blues are within, you know, I'm
happy Parafeeders, Stephen Parafetters from Taranaki. I think place for Taranaki.
He divides his time. When he gets his chance, he
(29:51):
places for them. But yeah, and they do play multiple
positions and you can't make people. Like you said at
the start to the first caller, I agree with you
hundred percent. I mean, I remember when Leo McDonald was
moved in ninety eight. First year, the Crusaders won it,
and he played first five apes. That wasn't even his
(30:11):
best position, but he played first five ights because of
we had Mertz. But you know it didn't work for him.
We still because they just came back and won, of course,
but for him, he was back here the next year
at fallback.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So the Crusaders are a bit but dem they tried
a couple of guys and then quite work. But they'll
get there, I'm sure. But in the current situation for
next season, would you have James O'Connor, would you rather
have Stephen Parafetta? And what would the fan base?
Speaker 17 (30:40):
I don't know, I don't know, I mean to be honest,
maybe maybe. I mean, I'm happy about James A connor
because they were moaned about that. But I mean, all right,
you probably would like Parafetta, but I don't want him
forced to come here. I know that that Canterbury with
the Crusaders when we're Aaron Major, Dan Carter and before
mentioned Andrew Mertens and the Major played mainly at number twelve.
(31:04):
But but people went on and on about it. But
they're all Cannibry guys, so playing for the Crusaders and
the Blues are in this situation now. And I think
the draft of Chris Lendram said, yeah, they've talked about it,
but but they know that the ramifications wouldn't go it
wouldn't go down. Well, I think there'd be some players
(31:25):
be probably even more going to Japan.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
They go, I'm not going to do it. I'm gone,
you know.
Speaker 17 (31:30):
I just think, yeah, we leave a lot of players
prematurely anyway. So now I think the status quo people
can say it's a lot so they don't like the competition,
Well I do, and but I think the status cloth
is actually working, even though it has its faults at times.
Well what system.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
System doesn't have faults?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
They all do.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Nothing is perfect. And I like the sound of the
relation in the voice of Andrew but in the sit
back and going well, you know, we did this, we
did this to ourselves that you go and do it,
which is fair.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
Man? What about the international rugby?
Speaker 10 (32:10):
Wee?
Speaker 8 (32:12):
What about your South Southern hemisphere rugby just whitewashing the
North good and proper like we did in twenty fifteen
World Cup. Remember that put them out of the seemings.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It says a lot about the quality of super rugby,
doesn't in the isolated weekend. We'll see what happens this
weekend coming out. But yeah, just in that one couple
of days was pretty pretty satisfying, wasn't it.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
It was awesome And you've sort of almost forgotten about
the All Black Island game.
Speaker 17 (32:38):
Aye.
Speaker 8 (32:39):
I mean you've got Fiji tipping over whales and then I,
without a doubt, the game of this the year. I reckon,
there's the Ossie game. Then Joseph who a lot to
call it now, mate, right down when we called it.
If he stays injury free, you're going to see Ossie
and the All Blacks in the World Cup final in
(32:59):
twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Based on one guy came.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
O, reckon, they're back. I reckon, they're back. They're going
to lose a few keys in there, but I think
that it's up enough from here on in there talent
it's just awesome. And he's he's almost like a Jonah
in the sense, you know, he could just break the
game out of nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
He was he was very impressive. I'm not going to
try and tell he wasn't kin.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I'm with you on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Huge but one player. Come on, Summers Swallows, I think
you know what I'm talking about. Hey, Jamie, are you nice?
What's up with you?
Speaker 10 (33:43):
The game so boring?
Speaker 17 (33:44):
Now?
Speaker 10 (33:44):
Something needs to go?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Did you watch any over the weekend?
Speaker 10 (33:49):
I watched all of them, mate, I watched. I watched
all of the rugby. The game is so boring. Some
something needs to go, mate, because it's going away from
the game.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Okay, so I was watching. Okay, So the Island game
had scum reset problems and that's that's always an issue.
I don't know if the rest of them were particularly.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Boring, or the rules or the balls, but bs, it's
getting boring. So maybe maybe it's a good thing to
send them around the country to both of the teams,
aren't they mate?
Speaker 16 (34:18):
Well?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So, but I'm going to ask a question. You watched
all of the games over the weekend. You thought it
was boring right from the get go. It was this
kind of a sort of sado masochistic exercise or something.
If you don't like it, I don't watch it.
Speaker 10 (34:31):
I know, but I love rugby. When you bought up
with rugby again, you just.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Just finding a bad points, you said, a terror into
the intake. You don't love rugby.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
I don't beck in the day, Beckham, the eighties, beck
in the nineties, be in the early two thousands. Now
it's become.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Did you watch the MPC? Did you watch the NPC?
Speaker 16 (34:53):
This is it?
Speaker 10 (34:54):
Yes, I'm a one tony and my team.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
It was fantastic because there's a lot to watch there
in Norman hemisphere. They have issues with some of the
you're going to get that, I think in general though,
across the board, it was very entertaining weekend of rugby.
Never going to get it perfect. I mean, I admy
that you didn't like it at all, but you watched
all the games. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 10 (35:16):
Yeah, but I just think that it needs to be
It needs to be a I don't know, a scramble
to make them more exciting for us viewers, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Well, they've tried all sorts of things and it never
seems to work. But that's okay. I think in your case, Jamie,
it's great if it's still boring Airs and you still
watch it. They don't do anything. Oh I got this
guy doing on Jamie, what's that grass grow? Don't don't
say anything and then watch it again, Danny Gey. But
thanks for your cool Jamie. All serious, I'm just having
some fun spreading the super rugby players, writes this text
(35:50):
around defeats the purpose of attracting players to your franchise,
Judio culture, your values and being so close to your
extended family. Paul, Yes, you are right. Coming up next,
it's cricket. Mike Hessen, former black Caps head coach, joins
us is a very odd series starts tonight one day
series against Sri Lanka. Slap bang in the middle of
(36:11):
two very important tests series. Why what's going to happen?
What are they going to learn? I don't know. I'll
find out from Mike Hessen. Up next here on news Talks.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Abdown myself.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
One Day International Cricket is the conversation piece. We're joined
by former black Caps coach Mike hess and Mike, I
trust you well, you very well thinks does he interesting
game of an evening in fact, this entire series is odd.
It seems like an outlier, but I'm presuming it's taking
place because that's just the nature of future tours. It
has to be done weeds in between two key test series.
(36:57):
So why is it being done well?
Speaker 16 (36:59):
With Champions Trophy being in February obviously one day tournament,
it's it's a pretty important series for New Zealand to
sort of who are the fringe selections really? And I
guess with New Zealand not having played all one day
international since December twenty twenty three, I think an outlier
is probably a fair a fair assumption to RCB a
(37:20):
very important tool with that Champions Trophy in mind.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Look, a lot of the key players are back here
playing in New Zealand conditions ahead of what is going
to be a key series, a test series up against
the English. So they're playing plunket chill, which is great
to have those guys there, the guys that are over
there playing now though I know it's one day compared
to tests, but how many of those guys are a
possibility of actually doing something in the Test series. Well,
(37:43):
I can see Glenn Phillips, maybe Mitch Santon. That's probably
about it.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
Yeah, and I think that's a pretty important three games
for Nathan Smith.
Speaker 16 (37:52):
I think if he shows any inclination, I think he'll
potentially fill in that number eight slot in New Zealand conditions,
which is going to be a really important slot.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
So you know, they need one of those bowling all rounders.
Speaker 16 (38:05):
And I think Smith seems to be the next cab
off the rank obviously being contracted, so it's an important
tour for him. Yeah, Zachary Folks has done really nicely
been Jacob Duffy is another one who will certainly come
into consideration for the Test rankings or the Test tour
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
The difficult to probably put form of one day is
an attached to to tests, but from a selection point
of view because of the the lack of depth I
suppose across the board in New Zealand cricket, because only
a small nation, there's a lot you can take out
of one days towards tests, I'm presuming is there.
Speaker 16 (38:42):
Oh, I think it's more just seeing how they deal
with the pressures of international scene, and I think that's
probably more important than anything. You know, someone like Nathan Smith,
who's been on the fringes played a huge amount of
domestic cricket done well. It's just nice to see, you know,
how they how they front up and deal with the pressures.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Albeit you're right, in completely foreign conditions.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So the test though not the tests sorry, the one
day coming up tonight though it does have important because
what's one hundred and thirty six on days? I think
it is since they last played a game of one
day cricket? What do they hope as far as the
one day to get out of Is it just time
in the middle more than anything from a coaching and
selection point of view, well, I think it's it's very
(39:21):
much about they would have two or three roles in
mind that still aren't filled with the champions trophy only
a matter of months away, so that's going to be
played in Pakistan, so obviously playing in Sri Lanka similar conditions,
so you know they're going.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
It's pretty much a.
Speaker 16 (39:36):
Litmus test to see who are the next or who
are the last or the two or three guys picked
in that squad. So you know, someone like Mitch Hay,
I think it's really important to see how he goes.
I talked about Nathan Smith, you know, Henry Nichols, whether
he can push his case as a backup batsman again,
or whether Will Young will take that spot. You know,
obviously Philip Satner will be there anyway, so there's a
(39:56):
you know, whether someone like a Dean Foxcroft could you know,
force his case with a really good tour. So there's
a number of players that probably individually have plenty again
and beating Shrilan Anchor and Sri Lanka's not easy. So
if they're able to do that, then it's important win
for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Mike Hessing, you touched on the gaps and you've mentioned
a couple of players. Can you just underline what those
gaps are, Those areas where there possibly could be somebody
rolling in to take one of those Champion trophy spots.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
Well, I think they need a change up bowler.
Speaker 16 (40:28):
So someone like a Folks you know, who's able to
change his pace is really important in those conditions.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
You know, the ball doesn't always swim or seem.
Speaker 16 (40:36):
So you've got to have someone who's got that different
set of skills and who can bat sort of towards
the lower end because our.
Speaker 7 (40:42):
Lower order are very much all bowlers at.
Speaker 16 (40:46):
The stage, So someone like you Smith or Folks could
add some you know, some depth to that batting order,
which is pretty important over there, really important, Michael Bracewell.
You know, Glenn Phillips gets some more bowling under their belt,
you know, and then they can work out whether they
need the likes of each sody they need a wrist
spinner or with a finger spin.
Speaker 7 (41:04):
Will be able to do the job over there. So
those are probably the key things.
Speaker 16 (41:08):
I think the batting lineup is probably settled once you
get the big boys back.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And as far as the threat that Sri Lanka posed,
well we know they can do it pretty much and
tests we've just had that thrast around our hidden face.
But as far as one day's national cricket of consumed,
where are they are? They played a bit recent, haven't they.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Well, they just beat India for the first time in
twenty years in a series. It all be it. It
was an Indian B side.
Speaker 16 (41:29):
But I mean they're not actually in the Champions Trophy,
so they haven't made the top eight sides to qualify
for that tournament.
Speaker 7 (41:35):
So they're pretty gutted about that.
Speaker 16 (41:37):
And obviously with New Zealand qualifying, they they'll want to
put one over them and sort of suggest that maybe
they should be there. So they haven't had a great
two years, but the last six months they've certainly looked
like they're on the improved.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
The Great Call is your call on eight hundred and
eighty to eighty Sports Talk All on your home of Sports,
News Talk s EDB. For more from Sports Talk, listen
Lived and News Talk sed B from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on aheartradio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Ooh yeah, here we go Sports Talk this News Talks
B and Darcy Water gave hello. Coming up seven after seven,
will call it. It's Wednesday, November thirteen, twenty twenty four.
Coming up this evening on Sports Talk Rugby, rugby, cricket.
(00:54):
What a warm cuddle letter is? Indeed, we'll fut it's
the program off. Talking with Mike Hessen, former head coach
of the Black Caps. Do you know that black Caps
haven't played one day in to night since December the
twenty third last year?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And they lost and it was Bangladesh. I want to
haven't gone back playing tonight playing again stri Lanka. Mike
Kessen will talk about that, touch with it on the
black capsure turn to the plunket shield as well. Before
that though, were double header on rugby union and the
interesting story around the stock piling of first five eighths
(01:36):
by the Blues. Well, the Crusaders used to do it.
What's the problem. Is there a problem with this doings
in our care? Are they doing anything to stop it?
We'll talk with Chris Lendrum. You selling rugby as a
general manager of professional rugby and Performance. And we'll catch
up with a man in charge of the stockpiling at
Auckland Andrew Wore, the Blues chief executive officer, And then
(01:59):
we'll take your calls on that. Does all black talent
need to be spread around? Does that sound a bit communist?
Or you may be is this creating depth issues? Your
thoughts on our one hundred and eighty ten eighty up
after we hear from those two characters, but before that,
this sport Today's sport Today, Liam Larsa just because yeah,
(02:23):
race cars. The VCRBF one peddler knows exactly what is
required in his role. Friends, Yeah, now wins let's goal.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I'm not here to make enemies. I'm not here to
cause issues. But obviously, every time I'm in the car
and i'm driving, I'm trying to do the best stob
I can. So I'm not going to put a relationship
with somebody over that. And you know, I have these
six races a very very important and I don't have
all the time in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
What's the DT this year is all black breakout? Loose
Ford success story knows the season is a closing that
he needs to keep firmly focused on the right here
right now.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I think you know where to sort of becking of
our tour now and I know I think it's plus
safe focused on and I stay on time, and you
really show how we care about our game.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Gary's dead black Caps coach will keep a beady eye
on the team's at newbies of the next three One
day internationals versus Sri Lanka.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
We're always interested in how players who haven't been at
this level do perform and how their skill sets I
guess merry up. So it's always a little bit of
a selection conundrum, I guess when you select new guys
and you want them to perform immediately as well.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Indeed, and that's the Sport Today story.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
We're talking around the allocation of players throughout Super Rugby
based on in this case the Blues and their healthy
quiver of first five eighths, although a couple of the
first five eights slash fullbacks and one of them is
the second five eights who just moved into that jersey.
(04:00):
But other franchises, other fan groups are looking a little
jealous at the fact that they've got all these fantastic
players in a key position. They, of course are Harry Plummer,
the second, the first. We've got Steven Pirafeft who plays
fullback and number ten, and the returning Boden Barrett who
takes both.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
Roles as well.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So that's three all black, first five and eights all
in the one franchises. Is that fair and right? Does
it cause an issue as far as developing other players
in the long term? Do they need to spread the
riches of first five, eighth to help encourage depth in
(04:41):
that position? Lots of conversation around this. Do they need
to be forced to offload some of these players? Does
it even actually matter? Who's responsible for this? Does New
Zealand Rugby care and are they going to do anything
about it? We're going to find out now because we're
talking with Chris Ningem. He is hel On Rugby, General
manager of Professional Rugby and Performance. He joins us, now,
(05:05):
welcome to you, Chris. So what's New Zealand Rugby's position
on how players should be distributed throughout the super rugby teams?
Speaker 8 (05:15):
DARSI.
Speaker 9 (05:15):
Yeah, Well, the first thing I'd say is great that
people are engaged in talking about our squads with such energy,
So that's weird tens have resided across New Zealand's been
a part of Super rugby history for over twenty years,
I guess, so it's pleasing to see in some ways
people taking a view on all of this in the
(05:36):
last twenty four hours. Look fundamentally, our view is that
the players get to determine where they want to play
under contract, and we don't really take a view as
an organization. We actually can't offer a player any more
from New Zealand rugby in terms of an All Blacks
(05:58):
top up depending on where they're playing their rugby, So
we can't say to them you'd be worth more to
us if you went down south or came up north
or whatever. We just want to create an environment where
players make decisions based around the best opportunity for them,
you know, and kind of let it go from there.
(06:19):
It's important that the players have agency and where they
decide to play in their own careers. So it's our approach.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You've got to develop talent first five eight. We know
how important that role is and so to spread the riches,
I suppose we look at someone like Malachi not wrong position,
but he disappeared from Blues to go down South Wale
and then he became an All Black. But you can't
determine that the players will make that decision because you're thinking,
(06:48):
surely it's better to have someone playing than sitting on
a bench watching someone else play.
Speaker 9 (06:53):
I think Maloka is a great example does because he
saw that opportunity wasn't going to get access at the
Blues and actually in that case, the two clubs work
together to cracker deal, and you're right, he then became
a Highlanders legend, didn't they in an All Black? Wassaki
Naholo was similar around the same time. So these things
(07:15):
do happen, and players will seek to move for playing opportunity,
but there's a whole range of factors that go into
their decision making. Obviously access to opportunity as one. There
might be family or personal reasons they're important for them
to be in a particular venue, And like I said,
I think it's just important that the players are able
to weigh that up independent of any organization trying to
(07:39):
be the invisible hand moving them around. That's sort of
not the way our employment model and our partnership with
our players is geared up here and look heads off
to the Blues in this instance, you know, they've got
three real quality players in terms of the three that
people are talking about, Boden, Steven Harry obviously, but it's
(08:01):
only in the last few months that Harry's becoming all black.
They can all play multiple csis. You know, both Stephen
and Bowden can play ten and fifteen. And the Blues
have done a great job of succession planning in that space,
and we want to reward and enable clubs to again
have ownership of their succession planning. They've done a good
(08:22):
job in this space, as other clubs have done in
the past and other areas. So it's part of the
competition and happy with how it's played out here.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Ouri Chris Lendrum placed around the depth of talent. I
won't say crisis because that's a horrible word, but insed
are and across the super clubs happy enough with the
players that are there are about to step up because
we know that spot's been dominated for a few years
by a couple of outstanding players. But have we got
(08:55):
the talent coming through in the next couple of years.
Speaker 9 (08:57):
Do you think? Oh, I think we're really happy. I
mean it's easy and we're as guilty as this as
administrator and talent spotters, as anybody else, any fan or
commentator of thinking about players and thinking about them were
really static mindset. And look at Harry Plumber last year.
(09:20):
You know, not many people probably would have put Harry
in the discussion around at ten at the All Blacks
and he had a terrific Super Rugby campaign and now
he's in that discussion. These guys just don't stay at
the same point dusk. They improve and grow and evolve,
we hope over time with good coaching and good environments
(09:40):
wrapped around them. At Super Rugby and NPC level, you
always would love more depth than any given position. But
at ten, you know, we're a better question for our
All Blacks coaches probably, but we're pretty comfortable. You know,
they're a really good twenties campaign. We've got some young
players filtering through now into Super Rugby from NPC.
Speaker 10 (10:00):
You know, Josh.
Speaker 9 (10:00):
Jacob was a name that not many people knew about
fifteen months ago. He's just been away with the All
Blacks fifteen. You know, Steven himself has had a long
seven Para Fetis, had a long career at Super rugby
level from hell back with injury. He's coming good consistently
now as well. There's lots to be to be really
(10:21):
excited about in that space. So we're just focused on
improving and supporting the players who are here to get
better and comfortable with where we're at for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Chris, always great to have you on. You've got to
finish this at this time of year. There's always a
debate that raises his head around changing the model and
looking at a draft instead. Is that ever considered happy
enough with the model you've got. Did you look at
it from year to year and say, hey, maybe this
needs to be adjusted.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
It's not something that's a priority for us right now.
We know all about the drafts that happen in other sports.
We know that we're done in a certain way. Drafts
and options create fans, spectacle and interest. Totally get all
of that that is of interest to us in the
long term. But when you're also fielding an international team
whose job it is to win every time they take
(11:14):
the field, you've just got to balance all of the
dynamics in your system and make sure it's right for you.
Right So a draft could work conceivably in super rugby
in the future. It's not something we're closed off to
at all. We'll keep chatting with Super Rugby Pacific Competition
and Rugby Australia and Fiji, sam or Tonga, but it
(11:37):
needs to be done when you know, it needs to
be considered at a time when all those unions are
in a position of strength and have a high performance
system that can underpin up. So not saying never at all.
We remain open minded, but it's not on the agenda
for the near team US.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It's a rugby general manager when it comes to the
professional and performance side of it. From nza's name is
Chris Lendram. Looking at the share of the talent across
the franchises and the possible stock piling in the Blues region,
which brings us to our next guest, Andrew Whore. He's
the chief executive officer of the Blues. Andrew, thanks for
(12:21):
joining us. First question, there are accusations that you guys
are with the stockpiling first five eighths. What do you
say to that?
Speaker 11 (12:31):
Well, absolute rubbish and I think if there's wherever you
are in the country, there's always it was locks for
the Chiefs at one stage, right it was the Crusaders
were tens a few years ago what we're focused on
is making an environment that people want to stay here
and getting our development moving. And if it was only
(12:56):
a few years ago people were shutting out that Plumber
should leave so and it was actually Leon who had
faith that Harry would come through. And I think from
there Arn's got the best out of them beyond that.
So this is about development. It's about doing that well,
(13:18):
and you've got to reward good development. We've done it
for long enough with one other franchise in particular, and
I'm not here to make friends and send players around
the country when we're trying to do our best that
we can do to make an environment where people want
to stay and come to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And that reward is not only for the player, but
for the franchise too.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
It works.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You don't do this just for them, You do it
for them and yourselves and the fan base.
Speaker 11 (13:44):
Correct And you know other franchises, Lucas Cashmore moved from
here and It's gone to the Hurricanes and the Boy
Morgan's gone to Ireland. So there are people around. It's
about doing your homework, finding those young people and putting
them into a program that brings them through and your
right if we do the work. Then it does make
(14:06):
it easier for your succession planning. People may argue that's
what we weren't doing before, Well you can't argue when
we're starting to do it and their moon. We're very
proud of the work that's gone here for a number
of people, and we believe we've got to keep going
and keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
See the Blues, Andrew Hard joins us so in z
don't lean on you. The all black coaching staff don't
lean on you. You're free to do what you want
to do and make the choices you want to make
along with the playing stuff.
Speaker 11 (14:36):
Yet, yes, and I think the key here is the
players have choice and what happens here, and also I
think they appreciate that injuries happen, rotation has to happen
of these players, and that's why we're looking, you know,
Harry page twelve, as you said, and you know, even
voting Canada a pinch along with along with fifteen and
(14:59):
so on. So you need depth in your squads. But
if you look around our competition, it's got strength and depth.
Burn's talked about it's the best competition in the world.
So just that some things at present point in time
in certain positions have depth in those certain positions, and
that's always going to be the case.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
You'd always hear drums beating for a draft. This has
been going around for a long long time. Engine are
un opposed to it, but they're going to climb into
it straight away. Is there a place for a draft
system in super Rugby?
Speaker 12 (15:29):
Do you think, Andrew, We're open to discussing that. I
think though there's a couple of things that people throw
that around and don't understand the consequences of such a right.
So the first thing is if you start a draft,
you start to penalize those that are investing in development.
And our role that we've adopted is we're going to
(15:51):
develop talent. Right everyone said, can't keep hold of it.
Speaker 11 (15:54):
We used to remember when I first come here, you
lose all your talent moan mode. Okay, so now we're
investing and we're keeping that talent, and those young people
are driving the benefit hopefully from being six full and
they'll move through. So the first thing you got to
work out is, well, how do you reward people to
do development, because otherwise those that don't do any derive
(16:15):
the benefit of your hard work. And the second thing is,
and that is I'm comfortable to talk about it more.
But how do we then get the commercial model to
work so that everybody gets rewarded as well from that
commercial widel So who to do it with Australia the
bigger economy, So how do we then move the commercial
inventory about so that our commission can make money and
(16:39):
then dish that money out equally or not equally, depending
on who's doing the development. So there's some bigger issues
that you've got to put into context and just oh well,
if we make a draft everything, we'll be fine in
the garden. The consequences could be a lot more dire
than what you think. So it needs to be carefully
thought out and there are some great models around the
(17:00):
world that we can look at that can give us
the answers to that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Three. Even that was the chief executive officer of the
Blues Super Rugby franchise, Andrew Whore, talking about the stockpiling
apparently of first five eighth the possibility of a draft system,
which Chris Lendrum touched on as well. Not out of
the question. Possibly the issue you have there though, was
what the Incenter Rugby Players Association would say about that
(17:29):
form of selection whether that would work for them, And
that's a fair enough point. So stockpiling players does should
injed our roll in here, spread the all black talent
around Super Rugby with the thought process that there are
depth positions in positions at the moment, let's say first
(17:53):
five eighth because the quality players aren't spread, so you
have a backlog of players playing for the one position
in one franchise, so they don't get the experience whereas
one of them went to the Highlanders for example. They'll
be out in the field every week. Suddenly they've become experienced.
(18:13):
I say no, absolutely not. New Zealand Rugby have already
got the whip hand over all of this. They've got
all the player contracts, They run the competition. It's their baby.
And they used to back in the day when Super
Rugby first started, spread the talent all around the place.
The best players will all get a position regardless wherever
(18:34):
they were, be it in Auckland or Canterbury and blah
blah blah. And that's changed, it's morphed over the years.
And I think that in order to get some form
of decent tribal engagement with the teams, you can't from
above say you're going there, You're going there, You're going there,
(18:56):
You're going there. Because life's not fair and sport's not fair.
These things go and swings and around for a while.
The Crusaders had all this fantastic gone now and there
are complaints about the Highlanders. Look, they've got no all blacks,
they've got no one they need to share the love,
No to the Highlanders have got to get off their
(19:19):
ass and then find some players, or develop some players,
or make it worthwhile for players to go to Eden
and live down there. Exactly what Andrew Hall was saying.
We've developed our players, who've worked of our players, and
we're not giving them up. There's been too much done
for our franchise to get these here and we're not
(19:40):
giving up. And the Saders would say the same thing.
And the Hurricanes have maybe got the next generation of
fantastic players too, so they will dominate maybe in a
few years. This is competition, This is a good thing.
I like your thoughts on that. Oh eight one hundred
and eighty ten eighty should JITed our step in and
spread the talent? I say absolutely not. They're doing the
(20:02):
right things. Let strength develop and players make their own
desc decisions depending on the opportunities that they get. You
can't tell people what to do or where to play.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Twenty six minutes after seven O eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is injured our step in? Do they need
to spread the love if you will around Super rugby
with players? This is News Talks AIRB. Looking forward to
your call coming up next.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Have your say on eight hundred eighty ten eighty Sports
Talk more on your home of Sports News Talks it B.
Speaker 10 (20:51):
What a track.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Twenty nine and after seven sports looking on News Talks
AIRB calls are counting. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty free phone nationwide? Do we ended our need to
climb on in and spread the love things a bit more?
Even Stevens stop teams like the Blues securing and dragging
all the first fives of any quality to their franchise.
(21:14):
I don't even it should at all? It Let it go.
It's going that's me anyway, Derek writes. The player's contracts
sit with the New Zealand Rugby so they will play
wherever they're told nice thought Derek won't happen and again
New Zealand Rugby Players Association. And you can't tell someone
to go and live somewhere they don't want to live
(21:35):
and expect the best out of them as a rugby player.
I'll say, you know, to move from all your friends
and family from Hamilton and we're going to take it
out of Christy there. You go set up down there
and play your best rugby, but I hate it down here.
Don't care where the ends that are. We play your
ages you, but I don't want to play anymore because
I miss my partner. My mum can't do it. You
(21:59):
tell people what to do and where to play. It
doesn't work. Get a Stephen, How are you, oh not.
Speaker 13 (22:05):
Too be in the office of just hitting home? Yeh yeah,
I don't think you can force the players to go through.
But I'll tell you this, if you were if I
was like in Harry Plumber Shoes right, and you your
preferred position as number ten, he's going to have to
fight it out between body Beard and yeah, body Bear
(22:28):
is going to be the incumbent. So the smart money
while I was in the boots, I'll be going well.
Targo is looking for you know, experienced number ten.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I'll try man, which is what man? I can't think
you don'd it right?
Speaker 7 (22:43):
Yeah, I mean I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But that's his choice. This is not an edict from
up above going you must play in Dunedin. You can't
do that, make that choice. Actually, I bet myself to
not bode and bear off office seat because I'm bigger.
And also of course I've got injury which always turns
up and ruins everything. You lose those three players in
the first two weeks, it's like, well, like we've gotten
(23:07):
back up.
Speaker 13 (23:09):
But I think you know, if a franchise wants to
track players, yeah, like you mentioned, they have to make
it a tractor for them. And it's hard if you
if you're not consistently playing like in the finals, you know,
like like let's say Otago, it makes it difficult for
players to be a track. But you've got to bangle
a different character, you know, want them to come over to,
(23:32):
you know, to to deflect over from the big smoke
of Aorbland to someone like I said, I'm just getting
just using the needed the tager Holanders as an example,
because they've only got a handful of Wallbacks and yeah,
they're just yeah, they could probably do with some experience,
I suppose.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, And I think that is on the club, the franchise.
What if you like to call them to create a culture,
environment and atmosphere where people do succeed and they want
to come. Stephen, I'll take you back a few years
now when the Helanders thought that essentially by themselves a title.
They might't argue with that phrasing, but they stuffed their
(24:11):
team full of crash hot all blacks that came home
from all over the place. It was a disaster. There
was no culture, no one really they thought they'll win
by design. We're here anyway, we're not going and it
was terrible. Then they guessed a lot of them started
from scratch, build a culture and won a title. It's
not hard.
Speaker 14 (24:29):
That th Nope, Yeah, yep, that's that is fere because
you you know, I think people just assume, you know,
you stake it with a would start players you know
you're in, but you need a pretty good system in
coach to implement it and their discipline. So I think
they've got a good start with Jamie Joseph coming back.
That's a that's definitely a good start yep, and just
(24:51):
build from there. So I think if you're an aspiring
rugby player, now is a good time to, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Get out of your confortation and go to Dunedin and
make an effort and having effect. Stephen, thanks very much
for your call that one hundred and eighty ten eighty,
Your calls are coming. It's seven thirty four. Oh we
go to Johnny now, good evening.
Speaker 15 (25:12):
Yeah, Hi, Darcy has it going forward?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
How about yourself?
Speaker 15 (25:16):
Yeah, I'm doing all right. You kind of said what
I was going to say a very long suffering Highlanders
fan and that that season when Manu and Andrew Horen
that came to the Highlanders, that was a disaster. They
didn't want to be there. None who was jogging around
the field. It made me so furious. I thought he
should have lost his all blecks jersey the way you know,
(25:37):
he didn't play for the Highlander.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He didn't work, did it? Oh you were then when
draguall then we're going to make a super team. We're
going to win, and no one really cared and yet
the culture team exactly.
Speaker 15 (25:50):
But it didn't work the other way either, because in
two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight they decided
that they were only going to pick players from the
from the Otago Southend catchment and you know, no no outsiders,
and that was a disare as well. We finished like
tenth out of twelve teams or something.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So you know, well, I think we all want to
see strong franchises, but I don't think you can fabricate that.
I think it becomes artificial and you need it. And
it goes back to that word again, team and culture
and people wanting to be there.
Speaker 15 (26:26):
Right, they're kind of thinking, like English football, you know,
just buy enough stars and clunk them together and hopefully
it'll work, you know, But yeah, it doesn't work. So yeah,
I'd love to know what the answer is, because if
you make the players go there, which essentially was what happened,
you know, and it was a disaster. And then, like
I say, when they decided they're only going to do
(26:46):
players from their own region, that didn't work either. So yeah,
I don't know what the answer is. But forcing people
to go somewhere they don't want to go, it's just
won't work because they just won't play.
Speaker 16 (26:56):
Well.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
You're not going to get the best out of the
may because they're not going to be happy. You're an
unhappy person in any environment. Whatever they're doing, they're not
going to give you their best. It's not going to happen.
I'm not sure what what the solution to this is,
but the other thought processes.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
Is it really.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Greedy? Is it stockpiling? Is it ring fencing the best
players in the country and keeping them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
At the bills?
Speaker 7 (27:24):
Not?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
They play in a number of different positions and one
bad injury. Oh hold on, we need all these guys.
The Blues are not around to look after the interests
of all black rugby, even though Super Rugby feeds toward
all black rugby. They are there to win titles for
their fans and their sponsors. That's what they're there to do.
(27:53):
They're not going to play second fittled to anyone just
because someone thinks it's slightly unfair that they've done a
Crusaders and flog of the first five eightes. Anyone complain
about that a few years ago? Besides, everybody is his
news talks there be it is twenty three minutes away
from eight. More of your calls, more of your texts
coming up next here on Sports Talk.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Because you make me feel the can of Rubi. We
were feeling so good. Have we got a little.
Speaker 7 (28:31):
Now we've rather shit.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
We were singing way lots we.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Were doing at eight sports Talk here and newstalkzb OH
one hundred and eighty ten eighty lines are open. If
you'd like to text, you can nineteen nine two ZBZB.
The standard text charge does apply to that transaction. Run
through some text for you, shortly talking about the distribution
of all black talent equally through the five franchises and
(29:03):
Super Rugby. No no, no, no, Hi Graham, how are
you good?
Speaker 17 (29:10):
Thanks? Second second night in the row after Hassel your Darcy.
But yeah, I agreed with both the opening, me and
Chris Bendram and Andrew Hrer. Richard Nola wrote the article.
I mean, yeah, it was quite a good article, but
I didn't agree with it, even though it's been interpreted
(29:30):
by some people that's coming from here. It came from
a guy that works here. But it wasn't the Crusaders
or any of the fans that I know, because I know,
and I think the blues are within, you know, I'm
happy Parafeeders, Stephen Parafetters from Taranaki. I think place for Taranaki.
He divides his time. When he gets his chance, he
(29:51):
places for them. But yeah, and they do play multiple
positions and you can't make people. Like you said at
the start to the first caller, I agree with you
hundred percent. I mean, I remember when Leo McDonald was
moved in ninety eight. First year, the Crusaders won it,
and he played first five apes. That wasn't even his
(30:11):
best position, but he played first five ights because of
we had Mertz. But you know it didn't work for him.
We still because they just came back and won, of course,
but for him, he was back here the next year
at fallback.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So the Crusaders are a bit but dem they tried
a couple of guys and then quite work. But they'll
get there, I'm sure. But in the current situation for
next season, would you have James O'Connor, would you rather
have Stephen Parafetta? And what would the fan base?
Speaker 17 (30:40):
I don't know, I don't know, I mean to be honest,
maybe maybe. I mean, I'm happy about James A connor
because they were moaned about that. But I mean, all right,
you probably would like Parafetta, but I don't want him
forced to come here. I know that that Canterbury with
the Crusaders when we're Aaron Major, Dan Carter and before
mentioned Andrew Mertens and the Major played mainly at number twelve.
(31:04):
But but people went on and on about it. But
they're all Cannibry guys, so playing for the Crusaders and
the Blues are in this situation now. And I think
the draft of Chris Lendram said, yeah, they've talked about it,
but but they know that the ramifications wouldn't go it
wouldn't go down. Well, I think there'd be some players
(31:25):
be probably even more going to Japan.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
They go, I'm not going to do it. I'm gone,
you know.
Speaker 17 (31:30):
I just think, yeah, we leave a lot of players
prematurely anyway. So now I think the status quo people
can say it's a lot so they don't like the competition,
Well I do, and but I think the status cloth
is actually working, even though it has its faults at times.
Well what system.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
System doesn't have faults?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
They all do.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Nothing is perfect. And I like the sound of the
relation in the voice of Andrew but in the sit
back and going well, you know, we did this, we
did this to ourselves that you go and do it,
which is fair.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
Man? What about the international rugby?
Speaker 10 (32:10):
Wee?
Speaker 8 (32:12):
What about your South Southern hemisphere rugby just whitewashing the
North good and proper like we did in twenty fifteen
World Cup. Remember that put them out of the seemings.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It says a lot about the quality of super rugby,
doesn't in the isolated weekend. We'll see what happens this
weekend coming out. But yeah, just in that one couple
of days was pretty pretty satisfying, wasn't it.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
It was awesome And you've sort of almost forgotten about
the All Black Island game.
Speaker 17 (32:38):
Aye.
Speaker 8 (32:39):
I mean you've got Fiji tipping over whales and then I,
without a doubt, the game of this the year. I reckon,
there's the Ossie game. Then Joseph who a lot to
call it now, mate, right down when we called it.
If he stays injury free, you're going to see Ossie
and the All Blacks in the World Cup final in
(32:59):
twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Based on one guy came.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
O, reckon, they're back. I reckon, they're back. They're going
to lose a few keys in there, but I think
that it's up enough from here on in there talent
it's just awesome. And he's he's almost like a Jonah
in the sense, you know, he could just break the
game out of nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
He was he was very impressive. I'm not going to
try and tell he wasn't kin.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I'm with you on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Huge but one player. Come on, Summers Swallows, I think
you know what I'm talking about. Hey, Jamie, are you nice?
What's up with you?
Speaker 10 (33:43):
The game so boring?
Speaker 17 (33:44):
Now?
Speaker 10 (33:44):
Something needs to go?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Did you watch any over the weekend?
Speaker 10 (33:49):
I watched all of them, mate, I watched. I watched
all of the rugby. The game is so boring. Some
something needs to go, mate, because it's going away from
the game.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Okay, so I was watching. Okay, So the Island game
had scum reset problems and that's that's always an issue.
I don't know if the rest of them were particularly.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Boring, or the rules or the balls, but bs, it's
getting boring. So maybe maybe it's a good thing to
send them around the country to both of the teams,
aren't they mate?
Speaker 16 (34:18):
Well?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So, but I'm going to ask a question. You watched
all of the games over the weekend. You thought it
was boring right from the get go. It was this
kind of a sort of sado masochistic exercise or something.
If you don't like it, I don't watch it.
Speaker 10 (34:31):
I know, but I love rugby. When you bought up
with rugby again, you just.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Just finding a bad points, you said, a terror into
the intake. You don't love rugby.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
I don't beck in the day, Beckham, the eighties, beck
in the nineties, be in the early two thousands. Now
it's become.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Did you watch the MPC? Did you watch the NPC?
Speaker 16 (34:53):
This is it?
Speaker 10 (34:54):
Yes, I'm a one tony and my team.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
It was fantastic because there's a lot to watch there
in Norman hemisphere. They have issues with some of the
you're going to get that, I think in general though,
across the board, it was very entertaining weekend of rugby.
Never going to get it perfect. I mean, I admy
that you didn't like it at all, but you watched
all the games. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 10 (35:16):
Yeah, but I just think that it needs to be
It needs to be a I don't know, a scramble
to make them more exciting for us viewers, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Well, they've tried all sorts of things and it never
seems to work. But that's okay. I think in your case, Jamie,
it's great if it's still boring Airs and you still
watch it. They don't do anything. Oh I got this
guy doing on Jamie, what's that grass grow? Don't don't
say anything and then watch it again, Danny Gey. But
thanks for your cool Jamie. All serious, I'm just having
some fun spreading the super rugby players, writes this text
(35:50):
around defeats the purpose of attracting players to your franchise,
Judio culture, your values and being so close to your
extended family. Paul, Yes, you are right. Coming up next,
it's cricket. Mike Hessen, former black Caps head coach, joins
us is a very odd series starts tonight one day
series against Sri Lanka. Slap bang in the middle of
(36:11):
two very important tests series. Why what's going to happen?
What are they going to learn? I don't know. I'll
find out from Mike Hessen. Up next here on news Talks.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Abdown myself.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
One Day International Cricket is the conversation piece. We're joined
by former black Caps coach Mike hess and Mike, I
trust you well, you very well thinks does he interesting
game of an evening in fact, this entire series is odd.
It seems like an outlier, but I'm presuming it's taking
place because that's just the nature of future tours. It
has to be done weeds in between two key test series.
(36:57):
So why is it being done well?
Speaker 16 (36:59):
With Champions Trophy being in February obviously one day tournament,
it's it's a pretty important series for New Zealand to
sort of who are the fringe selections really? And I
guess with New Zealand not having played all one day
international since December twenty twenty three, I think an outlier
is probably a fair a fair assumption to RCB a
(37:20):
very important tool with that Champions Trophy in mind.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Look, a lot of the key players are back here
playing in New Zealand conditions ahead of what is going
to be a key series, a test series up against
the English. So they're playing plunket chill, which is great
to have those guys there, the guys that are over
there playing now though I know it's one day compared
to tests, but how many of those guys are a
possibility of actually doing something in the Test series. Well,
(37:43):
I can see Glenn Phillips, maybe Mitch Santon. That's probably
about it.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
Yeah, and I think that's a pretty important three games
for Nathan Smith.
Speaker 16 (37:52):
I think if he shows any inclination, I think he'll
potentially fill in that number eight slot in New Zealand conditions,
which is going to be a really important slot.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
So you know, they need one of those bowling all rounders.
Speaker 16 (38:05):
And I think Smith seems to be the next cab
off the rank obviously being contracted, so it's an important
tour for him. Yeah, Zachary Folks has done really nicely
been Jacob Duffy is another one who will certainly come
into consideration for the Test rankings or the Test tour
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
The difficult to probably put form of one day is
an attached to to tests, but from a selection point
of view because of the the lack of depth I
suppose across the board in New Zealand cricket, because only
a small nation, there's a lot you can take out
of one days towards tests, I'm presuming is there.
Speaker 16 (38:42):
Oh, I think it's more just seeing how they deal
with the pressures of international scene, and I think that's
probably more important than anything. You know, someone like Nathan Smith,
who's been on the fringes played a huge amount of
domestic cricket done well. It's just nice to see, you know,
how they how they front up and deal with the pressures.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Albeit you're right, in completely foreign conditions.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So the test though not the tests sorry, the one
day coming up tonight though it does have important because
what's one hundred and thirty six on days? I think
it is since they last played a game of one
day cricket? What do they hope as far as the
one day to get out of Is it just time
in the middle more than anything from a coaching and
selection point of view, well, I think it's it's very
(39:21):
much about they would have two or three roles in
mind that still aren't filled with the champions trophy only
a matter of months away, so that's going to be
played in Pakistan, so obviously playing in Sri Lanka similar conditions,
so you know they're going.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
It's pretty much a.
Speaker 16 (39:36):
Litmus test to see who are the next or who
are the last or the two or three guys picked
in that squad. So you know, someone like Mitch Hay,
I think it's really important to see how he goes.
I talked about Nathan Smith, you know, Henry Nichols, whether
he can push his case as a backup batsman again,
or whether Will Young will take that spot. You know,
obviously Philip Satner will be there anyway, so there's a
(39:56):
you know, whether someone like a Dean Foxcroft could you know,
force his case with a really good tour. So there's
a number of players that probably individually have plenty again
and beating Shrilan Anchor and Sri Lanka's not easy. So
if they're able to do that, then it's important win
for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Mike Hessing, you touched on the gaps and you've mentioned
a couple of players. Can you just underline what those
gaps are, Those areas where there possibly could be somebody
rolling in to take one of those Champion trophy spots.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
Well, I think they need a change up bowler.
Speaker 16 (40:28):
So someone like a Folks you know, who's able to
change his pace is really important in those conditions.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
You know, the ball doesn't always swim or seem.
Speaker 16 (40:36):
So you've got to have someone who's got that different
set of skills and who can bat sort of towards
the lower end because our.
Speaker 7 (40:42):
Lower order are very much all bowlers at.
Speaker 16 (40:46):
The stage, So someone like you Smith or Folks could
add some you know, some depth to that batting order,
which is pretty important over there, really important, Michael Bracewell.
You know, Glenn Phillips gets some more bowling under their belt,
you know, and then they can work out whether they
need the likes of each sody they need a wrist
spinner or with a finger spin.
Speaker 7 (41:04):
Will be able to do the job over there. So
those are probably the key things.
Speaker 16 (41:08):
I think the batting lineup is probably settled once you
get the big boys back.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And as far as the threat that Sri Lanka posed,
well we know they can do it pretty much and
tests we've just had that thrast around our hidden face.
But as far as one day's national cricket of consumed,
where are they are? They played a bit recent, haven't they.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Well, they just beat India for the first time in
twenty years in a series. It all be it. It
was an Indian B side.
Speaker 16 (41:29):
But I mean they're not actually in the Champions Trophy,
so they haven't made the top eight sides to qualify
for that tournament.
Speaker 7 (41:35):
So they're pretty gutted about that.
Speaker 16 (41:37):
And obviously with New Zealand qualifying, they they'll want to
put one over them and sort of suggest that maybe
they should be there. So they haven't had a great
two years, but the last six months they've certainly looked
like they're on the improved.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
The Great Call is your call on eight hundred and
eighty to eighty Sports Talk All on your home of Sports,
News Talk s EDB. For more from Sports Talk, listen
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