May 16, 2025 • 42 mins
D'Arcy Waldegrave returned to wrap another day of sports news! Highlights for tonight include:
NZ Rugby general manager of community rugby Steve Lancaster on the 9-year-old who's too heavy to play rugby in the same grade as his mates.
Talkback - featuring Crusader Tahlor Cahill's dad - Should heavy kids be able to play in their age grades even if they're over the weight limit?
Crusaders coach Rob Penney ahead of the Waratahs game.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldergrave
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good evening and welcome into Sports Talking with open arms.
Are green, y'all step on into the studio figuratively minded.
Don't when you come in the door. I don't even
think you're allowed to. You'd have to get past executive
producer and middlesearch. He's a big man. He wouldn't let
you do it. Seven minutes after seven I I I K. Fair, fine,
(00:58):
you know your limitations. It's a sports talk. We're talking
sport funny that now through until eight o'clock. We've got
a good edge in the middle of the program for
your thoughts, your calls O eight hundred eighty ten eighty
you can text nineteen ninety that ZBZB. That'll cost just
ten to take charge callings free. Do that much better?
(01:18):
Sounds good as well. We're going to bookend your talk
with rugby are from the suits, the mandagerial's side to
the men who do the machy Well coach anyway, but
they do plenty of work, not that they get tackled
to this day and age. Towards the end of the program,
we're going to talk with Robert Penny. He is the
head coach of the Crusaders who got punched on the
(01:41):
nose last week and they didn't like it. Add All
the chiefs were laughing. Ah, God that a second half,
they said, I don't I'm making this up. God that
a second half? They said. Enough, They wandered. Wait, no
one wants to lose a game of rugby, asked the
Crusaders from last year. It was horrible before they go
(02:03):
to Warratas and try and win over there, which only
one team is done so far this year. Probably a
slap in the face is not a bad thing for them,
right should I ask Rob Penny that when he joins
us later on in the piece, we're going to kick
things off with one of the suits, the fish heads
and so sometimes unkindly call them. The general manager of
Community Rugby, Steve Lancaster, joins us to talk about the
(02:26):
story of the big kid who can't play with his
mates anymore. What are the parameters around? Who says what
and where and how? And why? Is there any wiggle room?
What's the justification for it? Where's it going to go?
I get a feeling it goes both ways, it cuts
both ways and we'll talk to you about that, either
(02:48):
experientially if you've got children who are involved, or as
an interested bystander. Will take your calls on that eight
ten eighty after we hear from Steve who's joining us next,
But before that, take your guess.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Today. Yep, no rest for the Wicked. Ryan Fox has
shot last week's first time PGA winner. Is monstering off
the tea box of Quail Hollow at eleven o five
New Zealand time tonight as he chases a major. He
won at Myrtle Creek, celebrated our bunch, drove to Quail Hollow,
(03:26):
and now he has to make this opportunity count. Get in,
get in pretty physically and mentally tired after last week.
This is now my fifth week in a row.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You know, I was looking forward to a week off.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
But yeah, it's obviously really nice to be here and
to get a chart that's it a major, especially coming
in and on some pretty good form where I'll be
around about eleven o'clock tonight looking forward to that one.
Black Fans come back kid, Poor show woman. Wickliffe is
looking to the defense of the World Cup, but for
now it's Canada in her crosshairs on Saturday in christ
(03:57):
Jet at three point thirty five. Quite frankly, Canada would
have a better chance defending Donald.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
I reckon this next opportunity to play for New Zealand,
but it doesn't come often, right like it's taking every
opportunity I can and so far this is just the
start of the juney towards the World Cup. Then amazing.
If I don't get there, then call Kissy Pie. I'm
happy for our girls, but I just want to experience
and enjoy this game this weekend, and.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's good night nurse for the Warriors. No, not the Wires,
but the Warriors. They've been steamrolled by the Timberwolves, so
you gotta done for one. When they beat the Golden
State Men one two, one to one ten of Minneapolis
the Western Conference Finals, await for it. Julius Randall stood
tall for ESPN.
Speaker 6 (04:37):
We've got a season full of diversity, Brenna do anything
as far as trades or hire cultures.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
We just stuck together. So I'm super proud of our
team that everybody has stepped up in some type of
way that year got win number eight. You gotta keep
going and you wouldn't read about it. But Mowana Possifika
has sold out the Albany Grandstand for their day Derby
War debut, their Derby War against the Blues. Ethink the
(05:03):
talismanic skipper Artisavia looks back to the dark and empty days.
Speaker 6 (05:09):
They're running out to their wives and mum and dad
only in the stands and here we're having to open
up extra seats for the fans. So it's a kind
of a massive achievement for this club and for the
brothers that were here from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Not a great sport this week in that that is
going to be something else, and that's sport today, Tom.
It's after seven. We're talking now the story around the
young boy nine year old who is just too big
to play rugby with US mates and countries. Monico Rugby
turned them down, said look, I'm sorry, it's not happening
(05:43):
outpoories of grief of a motion, a few people going
all hold on to deal with it, go up a level.
So to talk about that and how this all operates.
We're joined now by the general manager of Community Rugby,
Steve Lancaster. Today.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Steve, how are you great? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's what I like to hear interesting story fighting around today,
and as the geni of community rugby, it's right in
your wheelhouse this decision, which is I believe not and
he's in a rugby decision. It's it's purely with counties
and there at Counties Monaco. This young man, at nine
years old, too heavy for the weight grade, can't play.
(06:22):
He's devastated. His parents are upset, which is completely understandable.
But this story cuts both ways, doesn't it. There's a
good and there's a bad, and the smallest and the
biggest are affected by this. Now he's in a rugby
been in the space for a long time trying to
work out how to get this balance right. Where are
you at the moment?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, it's a catch twenty two, Darcy. I mean, in
the case you've just referred to, I mean, my heart
goes out to the kid and their family. Right. The
one thing that we always say, we never want to
hear is that people want to play rugby and are
unable to. So look, that's just a really sad situation unfortunately.
But you're right, it cuts both ways, and we just
(07:02):
continuously walk a really fine line in terms of enabling
every body to play and often due to numbers. That
means everybody playing on the same field in the same game,
versus managing perceptions around risk and physical mismatches and the like.
And so for every family that say you should every
kid play irrespective of their size and weight and capabilities,
(07:23):
there will be families on the other side that say, well,
if you do that, I'm not leaving my kid anywhere
need the pitch. So it is a bit of a
no win. Unfortunately, in these situations, how do you broach this?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You must look to want to solve this, and you
said it's catch twenty two. It's difficult to solve and
you would have done a lot of work on presuming
in that space about how to achieve that balance. Is
it just a case there's always going to be said,
it's been blood on the floor. You can't win, can you.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, it's really difficult. I mean no, one's probably too
strong a word.
Speaker 7 (07:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We allow each provincial union to form its own rules
around grades and weight limits and weight restriction or open grade,
and that's appropriate, right because every provincial union has a
different demographic, different population, so it's different player numbers. So
you know, in our larger metropolitan areas we've got bigger numbers,
great critical mass. It's easier to run open grade and
(08:12):
restricted grade competitions in the same region or province, and
some of the smaller provinces that there really isn't any
choice you're playing. You know, you're having to play a
couple of year grades together and you don't have a
luxury of restricted ways. So we absolutely enable the provincial
unions to determine what those parameters are with their local clubs,
and we play a supporting role around well in the
(08:34):
insights for your support that we can provide. And then
the other lens that we bring is the shape of
the game itself. So we've done a lot of work
in recent years on small black rugby from ages five
through the third and ensuring that the game is safe, enjoyable,
inclusive all the things that you want for a sport
experience for your kids.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
What guidelines do you put out? Because all very well
and good saying to the provincial unions, look, you work
it at yourself because of all the reasons you pointed out,
But is there a set of guidelines, some parameters that
they should operate within all stop right with them?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I mean we are more algorithmnes in our policies.
In fact, they're more related to age and age to
play seeing your rugby or ages that you can play
up or down in grades. Beyond that, really we do
allow the provincial unions to set these these frameworks themselves, right,
so they know they know their populations well, they know
(09:28):
their community as well. Another key thing is that I'll
say is that every union has dispensation process right, so
it's never a simple cut and drive yes or no.
There are opportunities for kids and their families to seek dispensations,
to play up or to play integrades, and the union
will go through a range of assessments and doing that
right around as say the cohort that they'll be playing
(09:50):
with the capability of not only the kid that wants
a dispensation, but other kids, you know, just where there
are any medical safety reasons or considerations. So yeah, look
at I say, we really do leave it to each
of the unions's twenty six unions. They've all got entirely
different contexts and so they know their community's best.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Can you override if they reject the dispensation, which is
what happened in this case. Can you write on only
go and actually hold on, we don't think this is
right and stamp your authority that are no non There
are always.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Appeal processes in any situation where people can escalate a
complaint or a concern. But again, we'd be very loath
to overturn the decision of a provincial union provided we
were satisfied that their process was good. And again they
know their community's best and our experienced union's processes are
really good because the people that are running clubs, the
(10:39):
people that are on councils of delegates or organizing committees,
they're all doing that because they love the game and
they want people to play it right. So nobody turns
up with a mindset how do we stop people playing
this game?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
When you look at this, how often do the unions,
or do the union in general look at the rulings,
look at the parameters and maybe look to adjust them
depending on the time. Is this something that's constantly looked at?
Is it once every four or five years? How do
you go about because like back of my day, and
you'll know this bag in the seventies, mate, you played
(11:08):
regardless of someone rains straight at the top of you
will toughen upside. It's very different now, so things change.
Is this a movable feast, Steve?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It is a little bit right. It's certainly every union
looks at us every year because as much as I
say they know their communities best, those communities are constantly
evolving as well. So you talk about you and I
growing up in the seventies, you know, typically your parents
are likely to chuck you our concrete polms. They get
on with it. It's a very different world that we
live in now. But also we've got very rapidly evolving demographics.
(11:38):
So depending on whereabouts you are in the country, you've
now got emerging communities. You've got parents who have different
propensities for risk, or appetites for risk, or perceived risk.
So it's constantly changing that the context is constantly shifting,
and so the unions are and what's actually a very
difficult space where they're constantly re evaluating and assessing what's right.
(11:58):
And again, most of the unions are looking where they can.
They're having open grades that sit alongside restrictive grades wherever possible,
but it's not always possible to numbers.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It's a very emotive story when in the motive story
climbs in the media. We know what happens. Human reaction
means people want to know more about it. But my
question here is how common is this to the best
of your knowledge, that we have somebody who sits outside
the parameters and can't actually play and they might stop
playing the game. You don't want that, But is it
(12:28):
a common occurrence a rarity?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Look, it's I guess it's common in that it happens
every year, and it probably happens in every provincial union.
But it's relatively uncommon and that you know, we've got
approximately eighty thousand junior players in New Zealand and we're
probably dealing with these issues across all of those junior grades.
The numbers that across the country would be in their
hundreds at most. So yeah, it's common, it happens all
(12:51):
the time, but as statistically significant, well, that's debatable. It
depends on each union.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
So you base these calls around weight and age unions
to the primary concern is safety? Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah? Or twofold. Safety. Safety is always a primary concern
and we'll never override safety in the interests of other considerations.
But very hoigh on its heels is the experience of
the players, right, So we want kids to come back
every year. So as much as we don't want kids
to be told they can't play, we also don't want
kids that feel that they're getting beat up week in
(13:27):
and week out and don't have got experience and don't
come back. And so that's the balancing act and.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
All of this huge balancing act, and this will probably
go on because as you know, this is the beauty
of rugby. It's for all shapes and sizes, but you
have to, I'm presuming, have limitations for as you said,
the safety and when you get to a particular age
then it's all on for level money. And if someone
turns up and says, I'm not playing against Joan Olomu's
(13:55):
too big, it's tough. You're a man now, right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
It is tough. And again this is why we're investing
heavily in alternative formats of the game as well. So
you know, we've had rugged for a number of years.
Then we've seen Ripper and rip rugby extending up through
the year groups and we've we've had some some real success.
North Harbor have been a shining light and leaving the
way there where they've they've extended ripper grades right up
(14:20):
into broaching on the teenage years and they have good participation.
We're also launching this year a new non contact form
of the game, T one Rugby. We think that that's
going to have a lot of appeal, and so what
we're trying to do is ensure that for people who
for whatever reason don't have an appetite for the contact
or they can't find a greater contact grade that suit
some at this point in time. And bear in mind
(14:40):
that all these kids are growing at different rates as well,
so what might while they might not be able to
find a grade this year, that could change rapidly, and
so giving them non contact or limited contact options to
stay in the game is also really important.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And one of the most popular grades and a team
representative team just traveled to Treadlanket recently the under eighty
five kg and that's proving to be very very popular.
So it's not cookie cutter, it can't be. You guys
have got to be constantly on the move to get
what's best for the game, what's best for participation exactly right.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And yeah, the underready five is as a great example, right,
we've seen an opportunity to keep players in the game
by giving them more opportunities to play and restricted grades
and it's it's going game busters. So you know we'll
keep an available, keep trying stuff. Some of it will
work and some of it won't. That will keep trying.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The right call is your call on eight eight Sports
Talk Call on your home of Sports News Talk z.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
CAS twenty two. He said it not me, that's the
general manager of Community Rugby for in Jar, Steve Lancaster.
It's not a great story, is it. And I think
there's empathy and people go, wow, it's that's real shame
and you can't play and you want to play with
your mates and you might stop playing the game. No
one wants that from New Zealand rugby. The kid doesn't
(15:58):
want it, that parents don't want it. But he's pointed
out like he plays and you got other parents going, well,
I don't want my kid playing. Is that guy's huge?
No unfair? Taking them out? Can't win? Can you don't
think you can? And the whole idea of just to
harden up and get amongst you know, what's the worst
that could happen? Very much a seventies and probably an
eighties thing that that doesn't happen anymore. Personal opinion on this,
(16:24):
but I really like your opinion on this as well.
And you may have experience as a as a younger
player or as a parent, and how you negotiate these
pars or navigate these pars through this situation with kids
that don't grow till later or grow out of a
lot faster than everybody else. From my perspective, I was
(16:44):
a midget like tiny, and I just stopped playing. So
you getting crunched. Maybe there was wait divisions back then.
It might have been a different story, but there wasn't right.
I had different experience in cricket, playing in different grades
because I just simply wasn't good enough to play with
my mates. I'd go and play with other clowns. I
had no idea how they were, but I love the game,
(17:04):
so I played on moved. So I look at this
and I feel with this kid. And when you're when
you're that young, you don't want to play it another grade, right,
You don't want to play with You want to play
your mates. You know, you know I'm playing some other
grave with big, scary kids who will pick on you
and tease you. And I understand that. But for me,
playing with a different bunch of kids that I didn't
(17:27):
know and wasn't interested in it were different age groups
from me. It built resilience, right. I'm like, if I
want to play this game, there's only one way I
can play this game, and I've got to suck it
up and I've got to go and play there. I
didn't want to, but I love the game more and
(17:48):
I am any in my corner saying, oh no, this
is not fee. You need to play with your buddy.
So like I understand when you're when you're nineteen eleven, twelve, thirteen,
forty five, even right up to seventeen eighteen, age is
very important. After that, no one cares, doesn't matter. But
as a kid, you can't explain that to them. Where
do you go with this? I probably use the worst term.
(18:10):
You know, there's always gonna be blood on the floor
around this. It's not the greatest term. But you know,
every now and then you put your foot in it,
then you do it twice like I've just done. Then
you can't please everybody all of the time. Life is
not fair, never has been, never will be. Different shapes,
different sides, there's different attitudes, different cultures, different whatever. One
(18:35):
size doesn't at all as much as I feel for
this guy and his family, it's more than just you.
It's the greater good, and that's what this decision is
all about. Play a different grade. I't think you're nine,
but you might even meet a lifetime friend playing in
(18:56):
a different grade. You might be challenged in this different grade.
Just do it, Just do it. Come on, man, you
agree with me out there or do you think I'm nuts?
Do you think maybe this should be more of a
movement to make it more inclusive, even though there's a
massive weight difference between these kids. It was like the
(19:17):
good old days? Or was it? Was it the good
old days? It was the bad old days. I know,
I don't the good old days are now. Don't look back,
look forward. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. What do
they do with this? Is there a solution? Have you
had experience? I say, gain resilience. Play with a different group,
Play with a different team. That'll be good for your son, oh,
(19:41):
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. I feel free to disagree,
or feel free to come up and say you know
what you're right for once in your Life twenty six
after seven supportstock on new stillsb I eight hundred and eighty,
ten eighty. That's a number to call, looking forward to
your engagement up next here on spots doc.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
You don't need to be TMO.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
We've got the breakdowns.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
On sports talk call eight hundred, News Talk.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
What did your name to? Twenty nine Sports talker and
news talks ev Yeah, the firestorm of texts to hear
your voice goes call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
(20:38):
As I thought, some people firm agree, other people know
you're completely wrong, six one half dozen the other. How
do you reach middle ground? How do you reach a
space where everybody is looked after and everybody is listened to?
(21:01):
You can't. You can try who you want, you put
all the rules in you want, You can do everything
you can to placate everybody and to look after everybody's
individual issues. But at the end, the powers that be
have to look after the masses, if you will, the majority,
(21:24):
and some people are going to miss out and that's
not fair, and they're gonna have to make decisions that
they maybe don't want to make. Maybe exploring your territory,
maybe advance, maybe mature maybe grow mentally. That's probably asking
a little much for a nine year old. But you're
going to come across this your entire life. You still
(21:46):
I'm fifty five, I'm still coming across it. Right, You've
got to learn how to deal with these things. I
mean most people that are coming in saying yeah, look,
you're right, and a lot of there it's a non story.
I particularly like this one, this Texas. It's a shame,
(22:08):
but I don't care. I'd suggest you do because you
just spend a couple of minutes texting me and you
paid twenty cents. If you don't care, why did you
tell me? Anyway, Let's move on. Kim joins us now
or I think she does anyway. Maybe not. Nope, completely disappeared. Nevermind,
(22:29):
we'll get there next time. Darcy, the four kg kid
shouldn't be given an exemption to the forty five kg limit.
You could have a thirty five kg kids playing against them.
It smashed them and he can still play in the
appropriate weight age. Great, yes, Steve, he can. You can
(22:50):
make all of the dispensation to warm, but I don't
think inherently it's going to work for the betterment of everybody. Hey, Darcy.
I rolled my eyes when I saw this non story
and the headlines today. Having played to manage rugby at
all levels, but in particular junior rugby for years now,
(23:11):
my question is why now this is part and parcel
of junior rugby. There are three sides to this coin.
You know there is right, there's the headge tails in
the edge, safety smaller kids not being unintentionally hurt or
discouraged from playing, to protection protecting bigger players from being
accused of dirty play if they accidentally hurt a smaller player,
(23:35):
and keeping them involved and enthused in rugby despite their size,
meaning they are treated differently. And three reality the olds
of rugby and life is that some people slash. Kids
are bigger, and that's why we teach the kids the classic.
The bigger they are, the harder day four. Likewise, we
teach the bigger kids to use their size. Realize how
big you are and how that is a positive. I
(23:57):
got that from dad. I didn't tackle that guy. Look
at the size of it. But he can't run with
his feet joined together. Just just get his ankles to it,
will you do it? Look at the size of him,
way en did up before I quit when I was
like teen or whatever, it was eleven, using the the
meeting that a lot of people used to tackle Joane
Olau just get kind of tangled up on his feet.
(24:19):
Just check yourself in there and see what happens. Let's
go back to the phones. David joined us. Now, good evening. Hey,
I'm very well yourself. What are your opinions on this?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
I've got mixed opinions. I had a leg come up
through the through the grapes. I was told he was
too big, he couldn't play with his mates with torn
He was sixty four kilos at h nine whoa quick
strong point from part part MOLDI descent and playing in
(24:54):
the lower grades. He said he had to play two
years up, which was difficult because he couldn't keep up
with the bigger kids.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Okay, well it couldn't keep up what he wasn't fast
enough or it just whole social society couldn't keep up
with them.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Speed wise. He wasn't fast enough. Could he tackle them?
How if he if he could catch them, he could
tackle them. But in saying that the only other option
was to go play rugby league.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Weight restrictions are they in rugby league?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
So what we did is we've got him up a
couple of years. We've put him into a team that
is playing tackle. So we've skipped the ripper side of
things because when that turned out later on, when weight graded,
he would have been had two years of playing at
a grade where he couldn't tackle, and then he comes
(25:52):
back and place against kids that have been tackling for
two years. So well, it wasn't ideal, but the result
is he's gone out. He's played his heart out. He's
learned how to play rugby and he's had to learn
it technically correct.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Is he still playing?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, he's he plays some crusaders.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm sorry, who are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
The son?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Taylor?
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Taylor Sam Sorry, Taylor Cahle.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Nice. I like this story. It's a story of resilience
and adjusting to the conditions around you. Right, it's like,
well this is how do I get through this? And
that maybe too many kids are bolly coddle enough that
they don't face challenge and diversity, and they ain't good
for your long term. Right.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You got to take him out of their their.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Or their comfort zone. It's it's it's not good, but man,
you learned so much more when you're in a position
where you are uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah. Absolutely, thanks David. He's gone through and he's playing
good rugby now and he's enjoying it. About a career
out of it, he's look.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
At it, David, thanks so much for your care We
go now to Wayne, good evening.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
Good evening, and I just go back to when I
was a young father. I mean, I'm a granddad now,
but I remember getting smashed about by the bigger people.
And then when I had my own children and then
my son went my wife was always worried that my
son would get hurt because of the bigger, bigger boys.
(27:36):
My son went through and played rugby, and then now
I have grandchildren and the same things coming through that
the wives and the mothers are worried that the kids
are going to get hurt. And I think the Red
Sox thing works very very well. I mean, I still
(27:57):
got to watch the two games each weekend and I
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
But I don't have a.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Child that plays rugby at that love level. My ex
wife wasn't interested in her. But she's so unsporting. It's
not funny. It's not a bar should be a fantastic
blindside now, the story. So what is the Red Sox.
Speaker 7 (28:17):
Well, well, what the Red Sox is is that if
you're if you're over overweight, you can you can play
in in in the game, but you only have so
many minutes in the game, so you can still play
with your mates, but if you're overweight you can play
and then yeah, so that's it. And I watched them
(28:38):
now and I'm just worried that the mums are going too,
worried that the boys are can get smashed out, smashed
over because it's it's a contact sport with the bigger
weights coming in, but with the Red Sox being it
just it just just works.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, I'm not being critical of you, Wayne, and we
thank you very much for your call. But why does
everyone say it's the wives and the mums. Why is
it always the women that are protective of their kids.
Aren't men protective of their children as well? This is purely.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
No, no, no, no no. The biggest we're oh, you know,
come on now, get out, go, go go, But we'll
also go look after young guys so they carry on
with the game and go up through the grade so
that we get some more people playing Senior and Club
Senior rugby and not going off onto the other sports
(29:32):
to be the soccer or the basketball.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Or what basketball. I mean, it don't matter how big
you are, you play regardless. If you're big, even beat it.
You haven't seen that, you're going to be fine. Like,
but there are options, and I think you're said in
rugby you've got to be very aware of that. Don't
want to lose players, right, So they've got to be aware,
but they can't.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
It's a it's a context sport. I mean, the other
games aren't called. This is the contact sport. You're tackling,
you're you're taking and you're you don't want like the
fifty four kg guy going against the forty five. Well,
when you say five, some of the guys are only
forty or or or even thirty nine cag you know,
(30:12):
twenty percent or twenty five percent more bulk hitting these kids,
which are what twelve thirteen, So it's.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Fair to separate them all out. So in this case
of this kid, it's like you've got to go and
play it the heavier grade. Really sorry not playing with
your mates, but this is this is what we do.
Can you deal? And if you can't, you're gone.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
You're only going up one grade, one grade, you know,
one grade. You can still have your mates at school
and anyone like that, but you're not getting anyone knocked
knocked about and in hurt.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You know, you know what, I understand why what they're
why they're doing. And I'm just saying to the to
the to the mums and the dads and their younger kid. Look,
and you might not like it, but this is the
way it rolls, and this is safety first and foremost
game experience after that, and I completely get it. I
understand resilience growth. Grateful you, Kim.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
There's been all this shade against the mum's being the problem,
but I thought I just put my oor in here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, that's why it wasn't always mums mother. I couldn't why.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
Well, I just wanted to say that that I had
a son that played rugby, and he was when he
first entered the sport when he was five, he was
over the weight limits for his age group. And he
ended up playing his first four years of rugby with
children that were twelve months older than him. And until
he and and I'd say the thing that it gave
(31:44):
delivered to him was actually a bit more maturity around
because he was opposed to children that are a little
bit old. I don't think it did any harm an
encouragement to any parents of situation. In his penultimate year
of junior rugby before he went to high school, he
(32:06):
actually won the player of the year for the club
and j one So that was at the time when
he was in the second year of intermediate. So at
the grounding it gave him and rugby was really good
actually playing with children if we're older, and I think
it made him a more well rounded player. So have
(32:28):
heart for those chunky kids because actually it doesn't do
them any harm.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Kim, thank you very much, Thank you very much. It's
again it's how you deal with it in what route
you want to take with your kid or yourself. I'm
super big on out of your comfort zone and challenging
yourself even when you're young. Brilliant for you. I think
it always wakes that. I'm pretty sure that when I
(32:58):
was eleven, i was twenty five kilograms. I was a runt.
I'm not much bigger now seventy five, I'm massive. Newstalk's
he be coming up. Morgan calls one hundred and eighty
ten eighty and we've got Rob Penny joining us to
(33:21):
coach of the Crusaders. Newstalk's bin to They's better the
thing that I've gone mate before talking about a character
(33:56):
who went through these trials and tribulations and it's now
a Crusader. Taylor Cahill has been doing a looking around
him maybut tatoes in twenty four for the Canterbury provincial
site Cheerie Boy to Hamilton Boys Height nice say it
as academy. One of the most important things is being
a good role model for my youngest sister. So if
(34:16):
I can nail my values at home, I can definitely
be a better rugby player. He's also a golfer with
a handicap of eight. I hatem already. He's a multi sportsman.
I let's jump to a couple of texts. Hey, Darcy.
In the eight is nineties there were weight grades discussing
going up the grade issue. It's not generally only one
player going up with grade, but when you made the
(34:37):
point about not playing with your mates, and it already happens.
I've got players with my team that aren't bigger than
the weight wise, but they're very talented players. As a club,
we put them up a grade, so they were challenged,
and that makes a lot of sense as well, Darcy.
Imagine marking Johan Olomu as a kid, Holy heck with respect.
I just throw myself at his feet, trip him off,
(34:58):
you'd see. I keep saying that life's not fair. You've
got to understand that some people get a raw deal, right,
dars He's a mum of two boys. I wasn't cutted
when they both brought out of rugby at about ten,
with head injury being a real rest. I would rather
my boys choose a sport that doesn't have potential to
impact their future brain health. Cotton will maybe the least
(35:18):
I can sleep at night. Yeah, I don't have an
issue with that at all. You make your choices around
what it is like In way, wasn't interested if we
had a boy playing rugby for that very reason. That's good.
I just always find it interesting when you get the
calls and everyone goes, oh, it's the mums wrapping them
in cotton will. Why is it always the mums and
the women that get labeled with that. There'll be plenty
(35:39):
of blokes and husbands and fathers that will be the
same way, right, But the people that do want to play.
You've got to manage them. That's New Zealand Rugby have
to do that. They manage Rugby, not looking at anything else. Fair,
get out of your comfort zone, rights another, you'll excel
New Cobbers. Great things can happen, Go harder, go heavier.
(36:04):
Got on your ray coming out now. Next, we're joined
by Pens as they call them, Crusades coach Robert penny
s forty eight New Stalks, EB Sports. That one Newstalk's
(36:25):
ab Marcus lash happen around the corner. But now it's
time for a week chat with a Rob penny Head,
coach of the Crusaders, who got touched up by the
Chiefs last week ahead of their game against the Waratas
he joins us, now, good ay, Rob socming much fun
getting punched in the face for your last game of
the sea, well, the last game of your season so far.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Oh you know, nobody likes to get beaten, particularly at home.
Chiefs played really really well. We expected that we probably
respond as well as we needed to in a couple
of areas. We've had a great week preparing for what
has traditionally been one of our toughest games in the
year against the particularly in Sydney. It's a team that's
(37:11):
become a bit of a bogey team for the Crusaders.
So we've prepared well again and a short week, but
excited about the opportunity in a bit of rain and
on a bit of a mockey park Friday night.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Wait, yeah, it's made for you guys. What were to
do is just dig deep and go back. And I
can't remember the year now where you absolutely touched them
up nearly put a ton on them, right, so you
know you can do it.
Speaker 9 (37:34):
I think that might have been two thousand and two,
so that's a few moons ago. There's no doubt the
group's capable. And you know, we're excited about the team
we're putting out and the opportunity in front of.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Us when it comes to playing away. There's only one
New Zealand team that's actually managed to get the cookies
playing in Australia. From what you've observed and seen, is
there a method to the madness of winning over there?
Is there something that you guys can apply in order
to turn that narrative around.
Speaker 9 (38:04):
Well, I suspect, you know, historic there might have been
a little bit of a flot off the throttle against
some of the Australian sides, that's clearly no longer the case.
You've got to prepare as if you're having a New
Zealand derby match, and you've got to be as deep
in your prep to ensure that you're leaving no stone unturned,
and then mentally you're expecting a mess of battle, which
(38:26):
all the Australian teams are providing now and there's no certainty.
So you know, if we get our prep right, we'll
be in the in the hunt. If we don't, it'll
be another battle for us at which we won't be enjoying.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I'm pretty stressful for you from a coaching point of view,
but from a fan point of view. And look, we
said this at the start of the competience. It hasn't changed.
It's getting better and tighter and tighter. This has got
to be good for the overall, not development because they're
professional players, but for guys accelerating up because there's no
easy wins out there now, so it's genuine competition that
(38:59):
this is great for Super rugby.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
Yeah, I think for the spectators obviously, as you've alluded,
it's it's terrific. It's kept interest right up until you
know the latter part of the comp and what are
we three games out and there's still no certainty about
who's going to be finishing where and generating a lot
of interest, so that's got to be good.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
You look at the injury toll and plainly the big
drama that you pulled out last week is well Jordan
with his knee. You got the latest on how long
will he be back come semi's time, playoff time? What
are we looking at there of.
Speaker 9 (39:33):
I think scheduled for quarterfinals? You know, should everything work
out now, faver there and if anything happens to be
a bit sooner, that'll be a bonus. But that's probably
where it sits at the moment.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Your other players, you're welcoming back bradon Eno. That's got
to be a good thing too. He's a terrific midfielder.
He's been beaten up by injury recently, but he brings
so much doesn't do that midfield.
Speaker 9 (39:57):
Yeah, without doubt. You know, we're a team stacked of
talent and having Braiden performing regularly now for us a
couple of games and he'll continue to grow and improve.
Been so long since he's been able to string a
runner games together. But it's it's great for us and
it's great for him that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now you've got Johnny mcneckkell, old school mcnekel, out of Whales,
straight beas and now playing he's coming in that role.
You've held him back for a wee bit. How's he
shaping up because there's a I'm not saying he's got
big boots to feel because he will bring his own boots,
I know that, But where's the energy for him? What
are you relying on him to do? What does he
(40:35):
need to achieve?
Speaker 9 (40:36):
He's a class act. Johnny had a horrific hamstring injury
before the start of the camp. Took a long time
to come right, but he's back to full noise now
he's had a club game under his belt. He's been
training the house down and the opportunities have arisen obviously
on the battle well. And you know, expectations around Johnny
are probably less than he has of himself. He's a great, professional,
(40:59):
committed man and you know he's had the experience and
been around the traps. No how's to run a group
from behind? And we're excited to have him back in
the max. It was just a matter of time before
he got his opportunity, and it's coming now and it's great.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Tell us about your new tight hait new ish, I
mean Coursel psychs Martin. What does he bring?
Speaker 9 (41:16):
Yeah, he's probably been under the radar a little bit
from all in Sundry. He's had a couple of little
injuries that have just held him back as well. Terrific player, mobile, tough,
robust both sides of the ball, defensively and offensively. Loves
it and you know, I guess how our biggest hope
is that he can just start to string some games
(41:38):
together because he's he's a very competent player with a
with a nice future, and without putting too much expectation
on him, you know, we just hope he can string
some games together and improve prover his value because he's
he's certainly got something in him.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Forget the refs call. You make a call on Sports
Talk on your home of sports US Talks.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Rob Bennet, our head coach, are the Crusaders? That game?
That game where the wart house is destroyed by the Crusader.
It was a year before I started at Radio Sports
Ancient Street, Wow Memories, warshaus say this is tomorrow nine
fifty five, Hurricanes Heightenings tomorrow seven eighty five and you
(42:23):
can find those at live and free on Gold Sport.
Drilla Taken on the Force, Mona, Pussifica and The Blue
Saturday at five past seven sold out stand at Albany,
Go Figure. Thank you very much, Chance Middleict, JHN, Darcy
water Grave. Good evening.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldergrave
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good evening and welcome into Sports Talking with open arms.
Are green, y'all step on into the studio figuratively minded.
Don't when you come in the door. I don't even
think you're allowed to. You'd have to get past executive
producer and middlesearch. He's a big man. He wouldn't let
you do it. Seven minutes after seven I I I K. Fair, fine,
(00:58):
you know your limitations. It's a sports talk. We're talking
sport funny that now through until eight o'clock. We've got
a good edge in the middle of the program for
your thoughts, your calls O eight hundred eighty ten eighty
you can text nineteen ninety that ZBZB. That'll cost just
ten to take charge callings free. Do that much better?
(01:18):
Sounds good as well. We're going to bookend your talk
with rugby are from the suits, the mandagerial's side to
the men who do the machy Well coach anyway, but
they do plenty of work, not that they get tackled
to this day and age. Towards the end of the program,
we're going to talk with Robert Penny. He is the
head coach of the Crusaders who got punched on the
(01:41):
nose last week and they didn't like it. Add All
the chiefs were laughing. Ah, God that a second half,
they said, I don't I'm making this up. God that
a second half? They said. Enough, They wandered. Wait, no
one wants to lose a game of rugby, asked the
Crusaders from last year. It was horrible before they go
(02:03):
to Warratas and try and win over there, which only
one team is done so far this year. Probably a
slap in the face is not a bad thing for them,
right should I ask Rob Penny that when he joins
us later on in the piece, we're going to kick
things off with one of the suits, the fish heads
and so sometimes unkindly call them. The general manager of
Community Rugby, Steve Lancaster, joins us to talk about the
(02:26):
story of the big kid who can't play with his
mates anymore. What are the parameters around? Who says what
and where and how? And why? Is there any wiggle room?
What's the justification for it? Where's it going to go?
I get a feeling it goes both ways, it cuts
both ways and we'll talk to you about that, either
(02:48):
experientially if you've got children who are involved, or as
an interested bystander. Will take your calls on that eight
ten eighty after we hear from Steve who's joining us next,
But before that, take your guess.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Today. Yep, no rest for the Wicked. Ryan Fox has
shot last week's first time PGA winner. Is monstering off
the tea box of Quail Hollow at eleven o five
New Zealand time tonight as he chases a major. He
won at Myrtle Creek, celebrated our bunch, drove to Quail Hollow,
(03:26):
and now he has to make this opportunity count. Get in,
get in pretty physically and mentally tired after last week.
This is now my fifth week in a row.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You know, I was looking forward to a week off.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
But yeah, it's obviously really nice to be here and
to get a chart that's it a major, especially coming
in and on some pretty good form where I'll be
around about eleven o'clock tonight looking forward to that one.
Black Fans come back kid, Poor show woman. Wickliffe is
looking to the defense of the World Cup, but for
now it's Canada in her crosshairs on Saturday in christ
(03:57):
Jet at three point thirty five. Quite frankly, Canada would
have a better chance defending Donald.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
I reckon this next opportunity to play for New Zealand,
but it doesn't come often, right like it's taking every
opportunity I can and so far this is just the
start of the juney towards the World Cup. Then amazing.
If I don't get there, then call Kissy Pie. I'm
happy for our girls, but I just want to experience
and enjoy this game this weekend, and.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's good night nurse for the Warriors. No, not the Wires,
but the Warriors. They've been steamrolled by the Timberwolves, so
you gotta done for one. When they beat the Golden
State Men one two, one to one ten of Minneapolis
the Western Conference Finals, await for it. Julius Randall stood
tall for ESPN.
Speaker 6 (04:37):
We've got a season full of diversity, Brenna do anything
as far as trades or hire cultures.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
We just stuck together. So I'm super proud of our
team that everybody has stepped up in some type of
way that year got win number eight. You gotta keep
going and you wouldn't read about it. But Mowana Possifika
has sold out the Albany Grandstand for their day Derby
War debut, their Derby War against the Blues. Ethink the
(05:03):
talismanic skipper Artisavia looks back to the dark and empty days.
Speaker 6 (05:09):
They're running out to their wives and mum and dad
only in the stands and here we're having to open
up extra seats for the fans. So it's a kind
of a massive achievement for this club and for the
brothers that were here from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Not a great sport this week in that that is
going to be something else, and that's sport today, Tom.
It's after seven. We're talking now the story around the
young boy nine year old who is just too big
to play rugby with US mates and countries. Monico Rugby
turned them down, said look, I'm sorry, it's not happening
(05:43):
outpoories of grief of a motion, a few people going
all hold on to deal with it, go up a level.
So to talk about that and how this all operates.
We're joined now by the general manager of Community Rugby,
Steve Lancaster. Today.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Steve, how are you great? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's what I like to hear interesting story fighting around today,
and as the geni of community rugby, it's right in
your wheelhouse this decision, which is I believe not and
he's in a rugby decision. It's it's purely with counties
and there at Counties Monaco. This young man, at nine
years old, too heavy for the weight grade, can't play.
(06:22):
He's devastated. His parents are upset, which is completely understandable.
But this story cuts both ways, doesn't it. There's a
good and there's a bad, and the smallest and the
biggest are affected by this. Now he's in a rugby
been in the space for a long time trying to
work out how to get this balance right. Where are
you at the moment?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, it's a catch twenty two, Darcy. I mean, in
the case you've just referred to, I mean, my heart
goes out to the kid and their family. Right. The
one thing that we always say, we never want to
hear is that people want to play rugby and are
unable to. So look, that's just a really sad situation unfortunately.
But you're right, it cuts both ways, and we just
(07:02):
continuously walk a really fine line in terms of enabling
every body to play and often due to numbers. That
means everybody playing on the same field in the same game,
versus managing perceptions around risk and physical mismatches and the like.
And so for every family that say you should every
kid play irrespective of their size and weight and capabilities,
(07:23):
there will be families on the other side that say, well,
if you do that, I'm not leaving my kid anywhere
need the pitch. So it is a bit of a
no win. Unfortunately, in these situations, how do you broach this?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You must look to want to solve this, and you
said it's catch twenty two. It's difficult to solve and
you would have done a lot of work on presuming
in that space about how to achieve that balance. Is
it just a case there's always going to be said,
it's been blood on the floor. You can't win, can you.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, it's really difficult. I mean no, one's probably too
strong a word.
Speaker 7 (07:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We allow each provincial union to form its own rules
around grades and weight limits and weight restriction or open grade,
and that's appropriate, right because every provincial union has a
different demographic, different population, so it's different player numbers. So
you know, in our larger metropolitan areas we've got bigger numbers,
great critical mass. It's easier to run open grade and
(08:12):
restricted grade competitions in the same region or province, and
some of the smaller provinces that there really isn't any
choice you're playing. You know, you're having to play a
couple of year grades together and you don't have a
luxury of restricted ways. So we absolutely enable the provincial
unions to determine what those parameters are with their local clubs,
and we play a supporting role around well in the
(08:34):
insights for your support that we can provide. And then
the other lens that we bring is the shape of
the game itself. So we've done a lot of work
in recent years on small black rugby from ages five
through the third and ensuring that the game is safe, enjoyable,
inclusive all the things that you want for a sport
experience for your kids.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
What guidelines do you put out? Because all very well
and good saying to the provincial unions, look, you work
it at yourself because of all the reasons you pointed out,
But is there a set of guidelines, some parameters that
they should operate within all stop right with them?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I mean we are more algorithmnes in our policies.
In fact, they're more related to age and age to
play seeing your rugby or ages that you can play
up or down in grades. Beyond that, really we do
allow the provincial unions to set these these frameworks themselves, right,
so they know they know their populations well, they know
(09:28):
their community as well. Another key thing is that I'll
say is that every union has dispensation process right, so
it's never a simple cut and drive yes or no.
There are opportunities for kids and their families to seek dispensations,
to play up or to play integrades, and the union
will go through a range of assessments and doing that
right around as say the cohort that they'll be playing
(09:50):
with the capability of not only the kid that wants
a dispensation, but other kids, you know, just where there
are any medical safety reasons or considerations. So yeah, look
at I say, we really do leave it to each
of the unions's twenty six unions. They've all got entirely
different contexts and so they know their community's best.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Can you override if they reject the dispensation, which is
what happened in this case. Can you write on only
go and actually hold on, we don't think this is
right and stamp your authority that are no non There
are always.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Appeal processes in any situation where people can escalate a
complaint or a concern. But again, we'd be very loath
to overturn the decision of a provincial union provided we
were satisfied that their process was good. And again they
know their community's best and our experienced union's processes are
really good because the people that are running clubs, the
(10:39):
people that are on councils of delegates or organizing committees,
they're all doing that because they love the game and
they want people to play it right. So nobody turns
up with a mindset how do we stop people playing
this game?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
When you look at this, how often do the unions,
or do the union in general look at the rulings,
look at the parameters and maybe look to adjust them
depending on the time. Is this something that's constantly looked at?
Is it once every four or five years? How do
you go about because like back of my day, and
you'll know this bag in the seventies, mate, you played
(11:08):
regardless of someone rains straight at the top of you
will toughen upside. It's very different now, so things change.
Is this a movable feast, Steve?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It is a little bit right. It's certainly every union
looks at us every year because as much as I
say they know their communities best, those communities are constantly
evolving as well. So you talk about you and I
growing up in the seventies, you know, typically your parents
are likely to chuck you our concrete polms. They get
on with it. It's a very different world that we
live in now. But also we've got very rapidly evolving demographics.
(11:38):
So depending on whereabouts you are in the country, you've
now got emerging communities. You've got parents who have different
propensities for risk, or appetites for risk, or perceived risk.
So it's constantly changing that the context is constantly shifting,
and so the unions are and what's actually a very
difficult space where they're constantly re evaluating and assessing what's right.
(11:58):
And again, most of the unions are looking where they can.
They're having open grades that sit alongside restrictive grades wherever possible,
but it's not always possible to numbers.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It's a very emotive story when in the motive story
climbs in the media. We know what happens. Human reaction
means people want to know more about it. But my
question here is how common is this to the best
of your knowledge, that we have somebody who sits outside
the parameters and can't actually play and they might stop
playing the game. You don't want that, But is it
(12:28):
a common occurrence a rarity?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Look, it's I guess it's common in that it happens
every year, and it probably happens in every provincial union.
But it's relatively uncommon and that you know, we've got
approximately eighty thousand junior players in New Zealand and we're
probably dealing with these issues across all of those junior grades.
The numbers that across the country would be in their
hundreds at most. So yeah, it's common, it happens all
(12:51):
the time, but as statistically significant, well, that's debatable. It
depends on each union.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
So you base these calls around weight and age unions
to the primary concern is safety? Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah? Or twofold. Safety. Safety is always a primary concern
and we'll never override safety in the interests of other considerations.
But very hoigh on its heels is the experience of
the players, right, So we want kids to come back
every year. So as much as we don't want kids
to be told they can't play, we also don't want
kids that feel that they're getting beat up week in
(13:27):
and week out and don't have got experience and don't
come back. And so that's the balancing act and.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
All of this huge balancing act, and this will probably
go on because as you know, this is the beauty
of rugby. It's for all shapes and sizes, but you
have to, I'm presuming, have limitations for as you said,
the safety and when you get to a particular age
then it's all on for level money. And if someone
turns up and says, I'm not playing against Joan Olomu's
(13:55):
too big, it's tough. You're a man now, right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
It is tough. And again this is why we're investing
heavily in alternative formats of the game as well. So
you know, we've had rugged for a number of years.
Then we've seen Ripper and rip rugby extending up through
the year groups and we've we've had some some real success.
North Harbor have been a shining light and leaving the
way there where they've they've extended ripper grades right up
(14:20):
into broaching on the teenage years and they have good participation.
We're also launching this year a new non contact form
of the game, T one Rugby. We think that that's
going to have a lot of appeal, and so what
we're trying to do is ensure that for people who
for whatever reason don't have an appetite for the contact
or they can't find a greater contact grade that suit
some at this point in time. And bear in mind
(14:40):
that all these kids are growing at different rates as well,
so what might while they might not be able to
find a grade this year, that could change rapidly, and
so giving them non contact or limited contact options to
stay in the game is also really important.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And one of the most popular grades and a team
representative team just traveled to Treadlanket recently the under eighty
five kg and that's proving to be very very popular.
So it's not cookie cutter, it can't be. You guys
have got to be constantly on the move to get
what's best for the game, what's best for participation exactly right.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And yeah, the underready five is as a great example, right,
we've seen an opportunity to keep players in the game
by giving them more opportunities to play and restricted grades
and it's it's going game busters. So you know we'll
keep an available, keep trying stuff. Some of it will
work and some of it won't. That will keep trying.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The right call is your call on eight eight Sports
Talk Call on your home of Sports News Talk z.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
CAS twenty two. He said it not me, that's the
general manager of Community Rugby for in Jar, Steve Lancaster.
It's not a great story, is it. And I think
there's empathy and people go, wow, it's that's real shame
and you can't play and you want to play with
your mates and you might stop playing the game. No
one wants that from New Zealand rugby. The kid doesn't
(15:58):
want it, that parents don't want it. But he's pointed
out like he plays and you got other parents going, well,
I don't want my kid playing. Is that guy's huge?
No unfair? Taking them out? Can't win? Can you don't
think you can? And the whole idea of just to
harden up and get amongst you know, what's the worst
that could happen? Very much a seventies and probably an
eighties thing that that doesn't happen anymore. Personal opinion on this,
(16:24):
but I really like your opinion on this as well.
And you may have experience as a as a younger
player or as a parent, and how you negotiate these
pars or navigate these pars through this situation with kids
that don't grow till later or grow out of a
lot faster than everybody else. From my perspective, I was
(16:44):
a midget like tiny, and I just stopped playing. So
you getting crunched. Maybe there was wait divisions back then.
It might have been a different story, but there wasn't right.
I had different experience in cricket, playing in different grades
because I just simply wasn't good enough to play with
my mates. I'd go and play with other clowns. I
had no idea how they were, but I love the game,
(17:04):
so I played on moved. So I look at this
and I feel with this kid. And when you're when
you're that young, you don't want to play it another grade, right,
You don't want to play with You want to play
your mates. You know, you know I'm playing some other
grave with big, scary kids who will pick on you
and tease you. And I understand that. But for me,
playing with a different bunch of kids that I didn't
(17:27):
know and wasn't interested in it were different age groups
from me. It built resilience, right. I'm like, if I
want to play this game, there's only one way I
can play this game, and I've got to suck it
up and I've got to go and play there. I
didn't want to, but I love the game more and
(17:48):
I am any in my corner saying, oh no, this
is not fee. You need to play with your buddy.
So like I understand when you're when you're nineteen eleven, twelve, thirteen,
forty five, even right up to seventeen eighteen, age is
very important. After that, no one cares, doesn't matter. But
as a kid, you can't explain that to them. Where
do you go with this? I probably use the worst term.
(18:10):
You know, there's always gonna be blood on the floor
around this. It's not the greatest term. But you know,
every now and then you put your foot in it,
then you do it twice like I've just done. Then
you can't please everybody all of the time. Life is
not fair, never has been, never will be. Different shapes,
different sides, there's different attitudes, different cultures, different whatever. One
(18:35):
size doesn't at all as much as I feel for
this guy and his family, it's more than just you.
It's the greater good, and that's what this decision is
all about. Play a different grade. I't think you're nine,
but you might even meet a lifetime friend playing in
(18:56):
a different grade. You might be challenged in this different grade.
Just do it, Just do it. Come on, man, you
agree with me out there or do you think I'm nuts?
Do you think maybe this should be more of a
movement to make it more inclusive, even though there's a
massive weight difference between these kids. It was like the
(19:17):
good old days? Or was it? Was it the good
old days? It was the bad old days. I know,
I don't the good old days are now. Don't look back,
look forward. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. What do
they do with this? Is there a solution? Have you
had experience? I say, gain resilience. Play with a different group,
Play with a different team. That'll be good for your son, oh,
(19:41):
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. I feel free to disagree,
or feel free to come up and say you know
what you're right for once in your Life twenty six
after seven supportstock on new stillsb I eight hundred and eighty,
ten eighty. That's a number to call, looking forward to
your engagement up next here on spots doc.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
You don't need to be TMO.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
We've got the breakdowns.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
On sports talk call eight hundred, News Talk.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
What did your name to? Twenty nine Sports talker and
news talks ev Yeah, the firestorm of texts to hear
your voice goes call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
(20:38):
As I thought, some people firm agree, other people know
you're completely wrong, six one half dozen the other. How
do you reach middle ground? How do you reach a
space where everybody is looked after and everybody is listened to?
(21:01):
You can't. You can try who you want, you put
all the rules in you want, You can do everything
you can to placate everybody and to look after everybody's
individual issues. But at the end, the powers that be
have to look after the masses, if you will, the majority,
(21:24):
and some people are going to miss out and that's
not fair, and they're gonna have to make decisions that
they maybe don't want to make. Maybe exploring your territory,
maybe advance, maybe mature maybe grow mentally. That's probably asking
a little much for a nine year old. But you're
going to come across this your entire life. You still
(21:46):
I'm fifty five, I'm still coming across it. Right, You've
got to learn how to deal with these things. I
mean most people that are coming in saying yeah, look,
you're right, and a lot of there it's a non story.
I particularly like this one, this Texas. It's a shame,
(22:08):
but I don't care. I'd suggest you do because you
just spend a couple of minutes texting me and you
paid twenty cents. If you don't care, why did you
tell me? Anyway, Let's move on. Kim joins us now
or I think she does anyway. Maybe not. Nope, completely disappeared. Nevermind,
(22:29):
we'll get there next time. Darcy, the four kg kid
shouldn't be given an exemption to the forty five kg limit.
You could have a thirty five kg kids playing against them.
It smashed them and he can still play in the
appropriate weight age. Great, yes, Steve, he can. You can
(22:50):
make all of the dispensation to warm, but I don't
think inherently it's going to work for the betterment of everybody. Hey, Darcy.
I rolled my eyes when I saw this non story
and the headlines today. Having played to manage rugby at
all levels, but in particular junior rugby for years now,
(23:11):
my question is why now this is part and parcel
of junior rugby. There are three sides to this coin.
You know there is right, there's the headge tails in
the edge, safety smaller kids not being unintentionally hurt or
discouraged from playing, to protection protecting bigger players from being
accused of dirty play if they accidentally hurt a smaller player,
(23:35):
and keeping them involved and enthused in rugby despite their size,
meaning they are treated differently. And three reality the olds
of rugby and life is that some people slash. Kids
are bigger, and that's why we teach the kids the classic.
The bigger they are, the harder day four. Likewise, we
teach the bigger kids to use their size. Realize how
big you are and how that is a positive. I
(23:57):
got that from dad. I didn't tackle that guy. Look
at the size of it. But he can't run with
his feet joined together. Just just get his ankles to it,
will you do it? Look at the size of him,
way en did up before I quit when I was
like teen or whatever, it was eleven, using the the
meeting that a lot of people used to tackle Joane
Olau just get kind of tangled up on his feet.
(24:19):
Just check yourself in there and see what happens. Let's
go back to the phones. David joined us. Now, good evening. Hey,
I'm very well yourself. What are your opinions on this?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
I've got mixed opinions. I had a leg come up
through the through the grapes. I was told he was
too big, he couldn't play with his mates with torn
He was sixty four kilos at h nine whoa quick
strong point from part part MOLDI descent and playing in
(24:54):
the lower grades. He said he had to play two
years up, which was difficult because he couldn't keep up
with the bigger kids.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Okay, well it couldn't keep up what he wasn't fast
enough or it just whole social society couldn't keep up
with them.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Speed wise. He wasn't fast enough. Could he tackle them?
How if he if he could catch them, he could
tackle them. But in saying that the only other option
was to go play rugby league.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Weight restrictions are they in rugby league?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
So what we did is we've got him up a
couple of years. We've put him into a team that
is playing tackle. So we've skipped the ripper side of
things because when that turned out later on, when weight graded,
he would have been had two years of playing at
a grade where he couldn't tackle, and then he comes
(25:52):
back and place against kids that have been tackling for
two years. So well, it wasn't ideal, but the result
is he's gone out. He's played his heart out. He's
learned how to play rugby and he's had to learn
it technically correct.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Is he still playing?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, he's he plays some crusaders.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm sorry, who are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
The son?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Taylor?
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Taylor Sam Sorry, Taylor Cahle.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Nice. I like this story. It's a story of resilience
and adjusting to the conditions around you. Right, it's like,
well this is how do I get through this? And
that maybe too many kids are bolly coddle enough that
they don't face challenge and diversity, and they ain't good
for your long term. Right.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You got to take him out of their their.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Or their comfort zone. It's it's it's not good, but man,
you learned so much more when you're in a position
where you are uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah. Absolutely, thanks David. He's gone through and he's playing
good rugby now and he's enjoying it. About a career
out of it, he's look.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
At it, David, thanks so much for your care We
go now to Wayne, good evening.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
Good evening, and I just go back to when I
was a young father. I mean, I'm a granddad now,
but I remember getting smashed about by the bigger people.
And then when I had my own children and then
my son went my wife was always worried that my
son would get hurt because of the bigger, bigger boys.
(27:36):
My son went through and played rugby, and then now
I have grandchildren and the same things coming through that
the wives and the mothers are worried that the kids
are going to get hurt. And I think the Red
Sox thing works very very well. I mean, I still
(27:57):
got to watch the two games each weekend and I
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
But I don't have a.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Child that plays rugby at that love level. My ex
wife wasn't interested in her. But she's so unsporting. It's
not funny. It's not a bar should be a fantastic
blindside now, the story. So what is the Red Sox.
Speaker 7 (28:17):
Well, well, what the Red Sox is is that if
you're if you're over overweight, you can you can play
in in in the game, but you only have so
many minutes in the game, so you can still play
with your mates, but if you're overweight you can play
and then yeah, so that's it. And I watched them
(28:38):
now and I'm just worried that the mums are going too,
worried that the boys are can get smashed out, smashed
over because it's it's a contact sport with the bigger
weights coming in, but with the Red Sox being it
just it just just works.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, I'm not being critical of you, Wayne, and we
thank you very much for your call. But why does
everyone say it's the wives and the mums. Why is
it always the women that are protective of their kids.
Aren't men protective of their children as well? This is purely.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
No, no, no, no no. The biggest we're oh, you know,
come on now, get out, go, go go, But we'll
also go look after young guys so they carry on
with the game and go up through the grade so
that we get some more people playing Senior and Club
Senior rugby and not going off onto the other sports
(29:32):
to be the soccer or the basketball.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Or what basketball. I mean, it don't matter how big
you are, you play regardless. If you're big, even beat it.
You haven't seen that, you're going to be fine. Like,
but there are options, and I think you're said in
rugby you've got to be very aware of that. Don't
want to lose players, right, So they've got to be aware,
but they can't.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
It's a it's a context sport. I mean, the other
games aren't called. This is the contact sport. You're tackling,
you're you're taking and you're you don't want like the
fifty four kg guy going against the forty five. Well,
when you say five, some of the guys are only
forty or or or even thirty nine cag you know,
(30:12):
twenty percent or twenty five percent more bulk hitting these kids,
which are what twelve thirteen, So it's.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Fair to separate them all out. So in this case
of this kid, it's like you've got to go and
play it the heavier grade. Really sorry not playing with
your mates, but this is this is what we do.
Can you deal? And if you can't, you're gone.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
You're only going up one grade, one grade, you know,
one grade. You can still have your mates at school
and anyone like that, but you're not getting anyone knocked
knocked about and in hurt.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You know, you know what, I understand why what they're
why they're doing. And I'm just saying to the to
the to the mums and the dads and their younger kid. Look,
and you might not like it, but this is the
way it rolls, and this is safety first and foremost
game experience after that, and I completely get it. I
understand resilience growth. Grateful you, Kim.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
There's been all this shade against the mum's being the problem,
but I thought I just put my oor in here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, that's why it wasn't always mums mother. I couldn't why.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
Well, I just wanted to say that that I had
a son that played rugby, and he was when he
first entered the sport when he was five, he was
over the weight limits for his age group. And he
ended up playing his first four years of rugby with
children that were twelve months older than him. And until
he and and I'd say the thing that it gave
(31:44):
delivered to him was actually a bit more maturity around
because he was opposed to children that are a little
bit old. I don't think it did any harm an
encouragement to any parents of situation. In his penultimate year
of junior rugby before he went to high school, he
(32:06):
actually won the player of the year for the club
and j one So that was at the time when
he was in the second year of intermediate. So at
the grounding it gave him and rugby was really good
actually playing with children if we're older, and I think
it made him a more well rounded player. So have
(32:28):
heart for those chunky kids because actually it doesn't do
them any harm.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Kim, thank you very much, Thank you very much. It's
again it's how you deal with it in what route
you want to take with your kid or yourself. I'm
super big on out of your comfort zone and challenging
yourself even when you're young. Brilliant for you. I think
it always wakes that. I'm pretty sure that when I
(32:58):
was eleven, i was twenty five kilograms. I was a runt.
I'm not much bigger now seventy five, I'm massive. Newstalk's
he be coming up. Morgan calls one hundred and eighty
ten eighty and we've got Rob Penny joining us to
(33:21):
coach of the Crusaders. Newstalk's bin to They's better the
thing that I've gone mate before talking about a character
(33:56):
who went through these trials and tribulations and it's now
a Crusader. Taylor Cahill has been doing a looking around
him maybut tatoes in twenty four for the Canterbury provincial
site Cheerie Boy to Hamilton Boys Height nice say it
as academy. One of the most important things is being
a good role model for my youngest sister. So if
(34:16):
I can nail my values at home, I can definitely
be a better rugby player. He's also a golfer with
a handicap of eight. I hatem already. He's a multi sportsman.
I let's jump to a couple of texts. Hey, Darcy.
In the eight is nineties there were weight grades discussing
going up the grade issue. It's not generally only one
player going up with grade, but when you made the
(34:37):
point about not playing with your mates, and it already happens.
I've got players with my team that aren't bigger than
the weight wise, but they're very talented players. As a club,
we put them up a grade, so they were challenged,
and that makes a lot of sense as well, Darcy.
Imagine marking Johan Olomu as a kid, Holy heck with respect.
I just throw myself at his feet, trip him off,
(34:58):
you'd see. I keep saying that life's not fair. You've
got to understand that some people get a raw deal, right,
dars He's a mum of two boys. I wasn't cutted
when they both brought out of rugby at about ten,
with head injury being a real rest. I would rather
my boys choose a sport that doesn't have potential to
impact their future brain health. Cotton will maybe the least
(35:18):
I can sleep at night. Yeah, I don't have an
issue with that at all. You make your choices around
what it is like In way, wasn't interested if we
had a boy playing rugby for that very reason. That's good.
I just always find it interesting when you get the
calls and everyone goes, oh, it's the mums wrapping them
in cotton will. Why is it always the mums and
the women that get labeled with that. There'll be plenty
(35:39):
of blokes and husbands and fathers that will be the
same way, right, But the people that do want to play.
You've got to manage them. That's New Zealand Rugby have
to do that. They manage Rugby, not looking at anything else. Fair,
get out of your comfort zone, rights another, you'll excel
New Cobbers. Great things can happen, Go harder, go heavier.
(36:04):
Got on your ray coming out now. Next, we're joined
by Pens as they call them, Crusades coach Robert penny
s forty eight New Stalks, EB Sports. That one Newstalk's
(36:25):
ab Marcus lash happen around the corner. But now it's
time for a week chat with a Rob penny Head,
coach of the Crusaders, who got touched up by the
Chiefs last week ahead of their game against the Waratas
he joins us, now, good ay, Rob socming much fun
getting punched in the face for your last game of
the sea, well, the last game of your season so far.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Oh you know, nobody likes to get beaten, particularly at home.
Chiefs played really really well. We expected that we probably
respond as well as we needed to in a couple
of areas. We've had a great week preparing for what
has traditionally been one of our toughest games in the
year against the particularly in Sydney. It's a team that's
(37:11):
become a bit of a bogey team for the Crusaders.
So we've prepared well again and a short week, but
excited about the opportunity in a bit of rain and
on a bit of a mockey park Friday night.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Wait, yeah, it's made for you guys. What were to
do is just dig deep and go back. And I
can't remember the year now where you absolutely touched them
up nearly put a ton on them, right, so you
know you can do it.
Speaker 9 (37:34):
I think that might have been two thousand and two,
so that's a few moons ago. There's no doubt the
group's capable. And you know, we're excited about the team
we're putting out and the opportunity in front of.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Us when it comes to playing away. There's only one
New Zealand team that's actually managed to get the cookies
playing in Australia. From what you've observed and seen, is
there a method to the madness of winning over there?
Is there something that you guys can apply in order
to turn that narrative around.
Speaker 9 (38:04):
Well, I suspect, you know, historic there might have been
a little bit of a flot off the throttle against
some of the Australian sides, that's clearly no longer the case.
You've got to prepare as if you're having a New
Zealand derby match, and you've got to be as deep
in your prep to ensure that you're leaving no stone unturned,
and then mentally you're expecting a mess of battle, which
(38:26):
all the Australian teams are providing now and there's no certainty.
So you know, if we get our prep right, we'll
be in the in the hunt. If we don't, it'll
be another battle for us at which we won't be enjoying.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I'm pretty stressful for you from a coaching point of view,
but from a fan point of view. And look, we
said this at the start of the competience. It hasn't changed.
It's getting better and tighter and tighter. This has got
to be good for the overall, not development because they're
professional players, but for guys accelerating up because there's no
easy wins out there now, so it's genuine competition that
(38:59):
this is great for Super rugby.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
Yeah, I think for the spectators obviously, as you've alluded,
it's it's terrific. It's kept interest right up until you
know the latter part of the comp and what are
we three games out and there's still no certainty about
who's going to be finishing where and generating a lot
of interest, so that's got to be good.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
You look at the injury toll and plainly the big
drama that you pulled out last week is well Jordan
with his knee. You got the latest on how long
will he be back come semi's time, playoff time? What
are we looking at there of.
Speaker 9 (39:33):
I think scheduled for quarterfinals? You know, should everything work
out now, faver there and if anything happens to be
a bit sooner, that'll be a bonus. But that's probably
where it sits at the moment.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Your other players, you're welcoming back bradon Eno. That's got
to be a good thing too. He's a terrific midfielder.
He's been beaten up by injury recently, but he brings
so much doesn't do that midfield.
Speaker 9 (39:57):
Yeah, without doubt. You know, we're a team stacked of
talent and having Braiden performing regularly now for us a
couple of games and he'll continue to grow and improve.
Been so long since he's been able to string a
runner games together. But it's it's great for us and
it's great for him that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now you've got Johnny mcneckkell, old school mcnekel, out of Whales,
straight beas and now playing he's coming in that role.
You've held him back for a wee bit. How's he
shaping up because there's a I'm not saying he's got
big boots to feel because he will bring his own boots,
I know that, But where's the energy for him? What
are you relying on him to do? What does he
(40:35):
need to achieve?
Speaker 9 (40:36):
He's a class act. Johnny had a horrific hamstring injury
before the start of the camp. Took a long time
to come right, but he's back to full noise now
he's had a club game under his belt. He's been
training the house down and the opportunities have arisen obviously
on the battle well. And you know, expectations around Johnny
are probably less than he has of himself. He's a great, professional,
(40:59):
committed man and you know he's had the experience and
been around the traps. No how's to run a group
from behind? And we're excited to have him back in
the max. It was just a matter of time before
he got his opportunity, and it's coming now and it's great.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Tell us about your new tight hait new ish, I
mean Coursel psychs Martin. What does he bring?
Speaker 9 (41:16):
Yeah, he's probably been under the radar a little bit
from all in Sundry. He's had a couple of little
injuries that have just held him back as well. Terrific player, mobile, tough,
robust both sides of the ball, defensively and offensively. Loves
it and you know, I guess how our biggest hope
is that he can just start to string some games
(41:38):
together because he's he's a very competent player with a
with a nice future, and without putting too much expectation
on him, you know, we just hope he can string
some games together and improve prover his value because he's
he's certainly got something in him.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Forget the refs call. You make a call on Sports
Talk on your home of sports US Talks.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Rob Bennet, our head coach, are the Crusaders? That game?
That game where the wart house is destroyed by the Crusader.
It was a year before I started at Radio Sports
Ancient Street, Wow Memories, warshaus say this is tomorrow nine
fifty five, Hurricanes Heightenings tomorrow seven eighty five and you
(42:23):
can find those at live and free on Gold Sport.
Drilla Taken on the Force, Mona, Pussifica and The Blue
Saturday at five past seven sold out stand at Albany,
Go Figure. Thank you very much, Chance Middleict, JHN, Darcy
water Grave. Good evening.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com