June 10, 2025 • 43 mins
D'Arcy Waldegrave returned to wrap another day of sports news! Highlights for tonight include:
NZ Herald rugby writer Gregor Paul on how Mark Robinson went in his five years as NZ Rugby CEO.
Talkback - How do we think he went?
Former All Black Daryl Gibson on his new job as NZ Cricket's high performance manager.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh my lord, it's Tuesday. Quick back to the office
or should that be studio Good evening? My name is
Darcy Waldgrave his Sports Talk on a Tuesday evening, tenth
of June twenty twenty five. Coming up seven after seven
tonight on the program, see Mark Robinson's walked? Why not walked?
(00:38):
He's decided to step down role he would have held
for six years by the time he exits stage left
come the end of the year. It's the chief executive
officer of New Zealand Rugby Union. We've had twenty four
hours to digest this news. I'm going to not pick
(01:00):
through Robbo's career, but my very learned rugby scribe friend,
I think I can call on that. Gregor if you're
listening you don't like that, hang up now, he writes
from He's yelling how it writes rugby inside and out?
Knows a lot about it. Is there a pass mark?
How do you judge what Mark Robinson has achieved in
(01:22):
his time and control? What he's done, what's worked, what's failed?
And one has to happen in the next six months
before he does step down to secure his legacy, not
that he went into this role to pick up a
legacy and go down as one of the great CEOs
of he's ZeLing Rugby. But I'm sure I'd like to
(01:42):
leave a house in order, more in better condition than
when he right. So we'll talk to Gregor about that.
We'll take your calls on that too. You can pick
a bad thing and pick a good thing, so I
don't think punching down on anyone from this position is
a good idea. I think that Mark Robinson's done a
lot of really good things. I think he's also had
a lot of pretty poor times, and there's been some
(02:04):
debatable decisions that he's been partied. I'd like your thoughts
on that. It's not a hate fest. Give me some good,
give me some bad on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty context of thoughts of course, nineteen nineteen. That is
ZEBZB that'll cost your standards text charge. Mind joining the
program were we're going to be talking with Daryl Gibson.
(02:25):
He's a former New South Wales wireta's head coach, former
Cantab Crusader, former All Black and he's taking the job
as the manager of high Performance for cricket in New Zealand. Okay,
he'll join us latter on a piece and we'll find
out what on earth he's doing in that role. Did
(02:45):
he apply for the wrong job? What does he actually bring?
He comes from high performance in high performance sport in
z so for him to move to high performance and
Heeland cricket makes perfect sense. He joins U latter on
the piece to talk about the role he has and
what he hopes to achieve. And on the text Naney
(03:06):
not the lead story shocking, Well what do we doing
on that? What do you want me to say? He's
signed next? Anyway before we getting him in here that
it's still even this. Oh, here's Naney. Let's go today
for the All Black and wa Nani La mape is
(03:27):
coming home to terrorize at super Arguing Pacific back lines
the bowling ball the Fienders back to play for Muana
Passifica next season.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I came back as well and to be a part
of the first Wine of Pacific team to win the camp.
There'll be something pretty special, I'll see. This has to
be a lot of hard work and a lot of
things behind the scenes that we'll have to do.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Former Warrior and qiy Shaw Johnson is experiencing love from
the people. It was a mercurial player, look it up,
and he got ridden hard by the fans when they're
proverbial hit the air conditioning. Now he's a pundit and
it's just some very promising signs. The people have opened
their arms for him to be fair. He knows the
(04:12):
game inside out and he is the required mental horsepower
and associated macabuary to have a long and fruitful career.
This could be fantastic.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Just by being myself and offering my takes and perspective
and insight that has been received really well. And I've
actually probably got more positive feedback since I've retired than
I did throughout my playing career, which is pretty pretty crazy.
I feel generally more loved right now than when I
was playing, and that little.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Laughless courtesy of my costing. Shawn appeared on the HOSK
Breakfast this morning. Hamus mcleannan, former a Rugby Australian Chief executive,
worked without going into our CEO, Mark Robinson, and he
found the experience pleasing.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Super Rugby was certainly up in the air and covid
Ha hit he was there's a lot of friction system
and you know, to be honest with you, Rugby Australia
was not in good shape at all. Certain masks always
a very nigh guy, super ethical.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Sam Healey, the Warriors understudy hooker to Wade again,
got very late notice that he was going to start
against his dad's old team. This shuts, he told the
Big League Podcast. He pulled me aside and said there's
a chance, and I said, I don't really know.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
And then about twenty.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
Minutes later I looked at Wado and looked too.
Speaker 8 (05:29):
Good, So I thought, yeah, I'm probably.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Ones and today and toda, what a game. Indeed that was.
In fact it his team naming Tuesday, but there's no
team being named because they've got a BISO. There you go,
and that's sport today. At twelve minutes after seven, Mark Robinson,
former center, ended up as a CEO, the CEO of
(05:53):
New Zealand Rugby, arguably one of the most high profile
and difficult jobs in sport. Here in New Zealand, no
where to run, no where to hide. Everybody has opinions,
and everybody's they feel free to share these opinions. Whether
he's been good whether he's been bad, ugly, indifferent. It's
(06:14):
quite the step down. And to talk about that. Gregor Paul,
he's in New Zealand Herald at Rugby Scribe, a regular
on the program. He's been following this guy for a
long time. So let's find out what Gregor Paul has
made of what Mark Robinson has contributed to New Zealand
(06:36):
Rugby in his time in the flash suit behind the
Mahogany desk. Good Evening, Gregor. News came out last night
that Mark Robinson, CEO of n Z is to stand
down at the end of the year. It will be
a six year tenure. Looking back at those six years,
I think maybe tumultuous is an understatement, is it not, Gregor?
(06:59):
What does this guy leave?
Speaker 9 (07:01):
Difficult to know what he leaves because that's not me
fudging your question. It's largely because the single most significant
thing that he did was sign off on an agreement
to sell an equity stake in New Zealand Rugby's commercial
assets to.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Us By, manager of Silver.
Speaker 9 (07:23):
Lake, and everything in his tenure will be defined by that.
And the answer to whether that worked whether it didn't work,
remains unclear because it's probably going to take another five
to eight years before we can see the full impact
of that decision. If you're going on the evidence of
what we've seen so far and what we've seen in
(07:43):
other private equity deals in other parts of the world,
particularly Europe, the evidence is certainly pointing considerably harder now
towards this being a bad idea, that it hasn't delivered
the kind of revolutionary, transformational revenue that they were expecting.
(08:04):
A silver lake are not the silver bullet excuse the over.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Use of so over there.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
And then it was ultimately, as some myself included and
others foresaw, was ultimately not the right play for New
Zealand Rugby to get into it. And it's a legacy
play in the sense that they've sold an equity state
that they may never be able to buy back, and
that they will pay the price for that forever, Which
(08:31):
is why it's such a singularly important topic in relation
to looking at what happened in Mark Robinson's tenure. So
it's really difficult to look beyond that if you're asking
for sort of immediacy. Some of what has been reshaped
on his watch happened as a result of the COVID pandemic.
So the geopolitics of the Samsar Alliance were redrawn by
(08:54):
just Then rather than Mark Robinson, because she closed the
border for two years and that created a need, an
absolute immediate need to really configure Super Rugby and it
became a Pacific only competition. Now you could say, well,
you know that was down to the administration. I argue
it was down to circumstance. So that's another major change
(09:15):
on Mirk Robinson's watch, and the other sort of changes
I suppose they were seeing. You know, we're going to
say some change in the international calendar, the arrival of
the Nation's Cup competition. But again I don't think you
can say that's down to New Zealand or down to Robinson.
That's down to you know, the world rugby partners all
working together.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
To change that.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
So in answer to what he specifically has changed, other
than doing a deal with silver Lake, not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
He was the man who made the decision. I was
on his shoulders around silver Lake. But can it all
really be set at his fate when there are so
many other people involved. He was the spokesperson, if you will,
and you feel it was more than that.
Speaker 9 (10:01):
Well you're the CEO, you know, and when you are
the CEO, when you're the head coach, when you're the
obvious leader of an organization, Yeah, the people around you
are working to the same outcomes. So yeah, his staff
were working as fervently to get a deal silver Lake
over the line. Yeah, it's ultimately the ultimate boss who
takes accountability and responsibility for these for that initiative.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
And that's how history works.
Speaker 9 (10:25):
Starts, you know, like we look at Margaret Thatcher's tenure
in politics, we look at John Keys tenure in politics.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Yeah, when you're the leader, you.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
Carry the can for everything that goes on on your watch.
That's how it has to get played. I think Mark
was a really strong believer in the notion of a
private equity deal being the only option available to New
Zealand Rugby if their mission was to globalize the All
Blacks more stringently than they had to find some more
(10:57):
global sponsorship money, to find some more Japanese, American, British
based fans and grow the whole footprint of brand All
Blacks to therefore draw the revenue that's attached to it.
Because New Zealand, as we all know, is ultimately a
country of five million people and it's quite difficult to
get the brand value of the all black paid out
(11:18):
by the domestic population.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He came in behind Steve Chew, who ruled the roost
with an iron fist, but without a sign of a
velvet glove anywhere. Difficult for Mark to come into that
role considering what Steve left behind, because the peers he
came all with a friendlier face, a more open face,
more of an idea to connect with the New Zealand
(11:41):
rugby public were previously things that are attracted terms like
the Kremlin and the Light. Did that make it any
easier for him or not?
Speaker 9 (11:49):
No, Look, I don't think it makes a huge deal
of difference. I think what you're referring to, I don't
think it's more a sort of stylistic notion of what
Steve chu brought as compared with you know, a friendlier,
user friendly Mark Robinson. I think the issue probably was
that Mark arrived in an organization and this was not
to disparage anything that Steve too did, but it was
(12:09):
apparent that the financial model of rugby worldwide, but specifically
in New Zealand needed to be reconsidered because what was
essentially happening was a game, was living off the proceeds
of British and Irish Lions tours that would come every
twelve years. It'd get a bumper load of cash. They
would bank all that and by the time the Lions
came round again, they were out of money and they
(12:32):
needed another one, and it was an unsustainable model. You know,
the old Lecks had dabbled, or you know, I guess
the old Blacks should say, yes, had dabbled a little
bit in playing test matches offshore. They had EIG who
were a US insurer who had given them a sense
of being a bigger player, and you know what it
meant to be a global brand. But really, by the
time Mark came on board, a lot of things were
(12:52):
converging and the organization needed to take a far more
international outlook and needed to lean into that way harder
than it had been. The financial model need to be reconsidered,
which was all linked into the globalization of everything. So
really he arrives at a time where change was an
(13:12):
absolute necessity for that organization to get itself on a
more stable foundation, and therefore would we probably associate the
stylistic differences between the two as being you know, as
being what was different about them, Not not really. I
think Mark had to take New Zealand Rugby and park
it more as an international focused, outward looking entity, which
(13:37):
and a more complex organization as well. And I think
Steve was a classic sports administrator who'd come through the
domestic ranks and really he'd taken the organization as far
as he could take it, and it needed a new
person to, you know, to make the changes that Mark
was charged with making.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
One of the biggest is when he was in charge,
like he still got six months to go, was the
handling of the Foster the Robertson situation. Nothing either on
got leaf or the egg on their face and muddle
over the walls of that one. How he handled that?
Speaker 9 (14:13):
Yeah, well you're asking me, and you're asking me at
a time where I've got deeper insight into that because
Ian Foster's written the book about this. I wrote the
book with him, so I've got a really good handle
on how that played out. The book is out next week.
I'm trying not to give spoilers away here. So what
(14:36):
I would say in answer to that, read the book
from a perspective of how would you feel if you
were the Old Blacks coach, and yep, there could be
some who would argue that it wasn't a massively successful
tenure that Ian Foster had if you look at it
just purely on a results basis. There were circumstances that
were difficult no matter who the CEO was that would
(14:58):
have been, you know, the arrival of COVID, closing of borders,
living in biobubbles, all these things that are massive impact
on schedules, the way the team trained, the way they.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
Had to play.
Speaker 9 (15:08):
But I think just read the book and you'll be
able to draw your own conclusions as to how well
that scenario was handled, because there's certain things that are
revealed in there that would make would make an exercise
in leadership and communication quite a worthwhile process.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
He's not leaving because of the book, is Egregor.
Speaker 9 (15:34):
No, he's not leaving because of the book. But but
it's that we haven't heard from Eating Foster, and obviously
asking me about Mark Foster, Mark Robinson, but we haven't
heard from him. And one of the things I'd say
about Robbo is if we look at the high performance sphere,
if you like, there were definitely issues with that on
(15:57):
his watch. I mean the Black Ferns went to a
World Cup having you know, to parachute Wayne Smith in
as their coach, and they had an effective temporary coaching
crew you know who were put in. I can't remember
it was it three months or four months before the tournament.
We had an all black team go to a World
Cup with the decision already made that the existing coaching
(16:19):
crew and most of the management team were being told
already you know, you're not going to be here after
the World Cup. That was an unprecedented situation. Did it
destabilize the team? No, not really. But was it unusual
for these guys to be going to a tournament with
that level of disruption.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
Yes, we've never seen that before.
Speaker 9 (16:39):
And now we've got an under twenty team that is
off to the Junior World Championship again, just on the
eve of the tournament, the head coach has resigned because
clearly there was a lack of alignment between him and
the various deputies. So that's three World Cups, three years
in a row where national teams are going with some
(16:59):
kind of coaching drama late in the piece, which has
impacted the preparation. And I think if you want to
going about legacy. It is clear to me that there's
some issues not not confined to Mike Robinson's leadership around
high performance, but clearly there's a there's an issue with
the high performance team and management of high performance teams
(17:22):
in New Zealand right now.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Over the next six months. What can he do? What
should he do? Is it a case of just hold
it steady before he departs? Is there anything he can.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Do for you?
Speaker 9 (17:33):
Well, there's one critical piece of work, which is to
is to sign a podcast agreement before he leaves. That
has to happen because the current agreement runs out at
the end of the year. So that is an absolute must.
And that's a biggie because you know, any major sports,
professional sports entity, your broadcast income is paramount to you,
(17:54):
you know, to your success because it forms a huge
part of your revenue. This has gone on for quite
some time, this sort of stalemate between ends and aren't Sky.
You know, I've been reporting that Sky has made a
monetary or where that's about anything between twenty to twenty
five million dollars less than New Zealand Rugby currently own.
So there's a real need, you know, New Zealand Rugby
(18:16):
can't afford to take an income hit of that size
on such an important piece of real estate for them.
They've got to find a way for this deal when
they sign it. They've got to find a way for
broadcast in its entirety. Now, what I mean by that
is if they do not get a great price from
the domestic broadcaster, who will be Sky, then they need
(18:38):
to find a way to be selling the international rights
to overseas broadcasters. Sky UK canal clue whoever. They've got
to try and get the make the shortfall that they're
looking at domestically, they've got to make that up internationally.
And I think you could say if they get to
the point where they retain next year what they are
(19:00):
currently earning this year on broadcast revenue, I would probably
consider that a win for Robinson. But there's a secondary
caveat which is this is contrary to the sales pitch
that was given three years ago about the reasons for
bringing in silver Lake as an investment partner, because we
(19:21):
were being told that bringing them in, with their experience
and selling broadcast rights and understanding digital content, that we
were going to see these transformational lifts in broadcast revenue.
Now that's clearly not going to happen on this occasion
if we're looking at a break even scenario, and then
we're another five years down the track before they get
(19:42):
another crack.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
At fixing this.
Speaker 9 (19:44):
So that puts a real question mark on the value
of having silver Lake sitting there as a partner, because
they've had you know, this was their time to bang
it in the back of the net, and they've spuned
it over the bar. And now we're being told, oh, well,
hang on, you've got to wait another five years and
we'll see if they can park this one into an
open goal. And that's the danger for as I talked
(20:05):
about earlier. But you know, the Hawt Robinson legacy, it
hangs on what ultimately proves to be the value of
having brought silver Lake in as a partner.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports and men.
Have your say on eighty Sports Talk on your home
of sports news talk z it be.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Gregor Paul there and you sound herald journalist. And as
it turns out, he's written a book and coats with
Ian Foster about what happened there. Out next week, Phily
keen for Gregor to send me a free one because
I'm mean looking forward to reading that one. Sounds like
there's a few things and I know this was not
a long advertisement for Gregor's book. I don't know he's
(20:48):
going to come up with that, which is nice to
talk to him and he knows something. So Mark Robinson,
he's one one six months. That's the end of his
tenure as the CEO of n Z are the biggest
takeaway from that chat as we cannot define whether his
(21:08):
tenure was positive or negative until we see the final
tide of Silver Lake and how that operated many many
years before we know if that decision was any good
or not. So you have to hit pause on that.
(21:30):
My question to you as a fan of rugby and
everyone went through the two era and he was a
very sound administrator. He was also the boss and you
were under no illusions that he wasn't. Mark Robinson came
(21:51):
in as much friendly as face, much friendlier face for
rugby in New Zealand to possibly wilt that kremlin like
wall that had been built up. But for you as
a fan, when you step back and look at what
he's done, is he passed as he failed? What should
(22:11):
he have done better? What will you remember of this
that he's not dead, right, an't you wrong? Guys not
pushing up Daisies's just retiring from his role. What it
is one of the most important roles in New Zealand sport.
I like you to tell me you're positive and a negative.
If you want to lean on the negatives, well you're
more than welcome. It's your program too, positives as well.
(22:36):
Pass fail fifty to fifty? Would he get school sirit?
Does anyone out there still know what school sit is?
It's quite big back in my day. It's twenty nine
minutes after seven Sports Talker and News Talks AB your
text to Rolling on and nineteen nine two ZBZB standard
text charge does apply. I'd love to hear your voice.
Though a good thing a bad thing? Has he been
(22:59):
a good CEO for New Zealand? Rate is his News
Talks AB?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
The right call is your call on eight hundred eighty
eighty Sports Talk Call on your home of Sports News
Talk ZID.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Nobody Let's key to the phones, one hundred eighty ten
eighty three phone number nation wide, Mark Robinson? What does
he leave behind? What did he drop? What did he pass?
What did he run with? What did he punt into
the stands, the good, the bad, the indifferent. Mark Robinson
(23:49):
stepping down as the chief executive of in z Ah
Good evening, peek in ay gang, good mate, what about yourself?
Speaker 7 (24:00):
Not too badly. I just didn't like the way how
he handled Ian Foster. You know, it wasn't doing too
bady and you wouldn't do that to employ employee. He
was working for a company, So totally on that way,
how he's handled that, I reckon it was quite disgusting.
You know, in the normal work and in ployment, he
had up for unfair dismissal and he got away. I
(24:21):
hope he doesn't treat his kids the same as he
treats Ian. I just got lost totally respect because of that.
Of that, totally, I don't as much time for the guy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And that is based on not that he dismissed him,
but that it went through so many stages and it
was played out on a public stage.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
Definitely. Yeah, he's just even doing that. You know, he's
not that clever because I think I think a lot
of people think the same way as that's that's actually
just yeah, that's not that's something nice. How he handled
that situation at all, and yeah, he doesn't get he
doesn't get my respect at all. Just totally on that topic, okay.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And that's the overarching that's the shadow on you, Pete.
That's what I'm after. What will people remember? And this
is something that is going to be covered plainly. As
Gregor mentioned in this book that he's written in cahoots
with Ian Foster about how that unfolded. I tell you what, Pete,
I won't tell a lie. It made for great talkback,
was fantastic for us.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
There's an old saying, don't you to someone else that
was not done to yourself? And I don't think he'd
be like he put in Ian's position where you as
a coach, he treated it like that. So just so
how he handled that was so appalling.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
To be honest, Pete, thanks very much for your honest opinion.
I think he'd probably look back at that as well
and go that was clumsy. I think probably the nicest
way of describing it. And I was talking about this
back at the time under Steve too, this would never
have happened. He was a lot colder and a lot
more firm on the actions that happened beneath him. I
(25:59):
don't think it would have got away, and I believe
that he would look back at that and go, yep,
could have been done better because it was an embarrassing
time for New Zealand rugby. I mean it was embarrassing
the way Ian Foster sacked a couple of his co
coaches when it looked like it was curtains for him.
That the whole era was when you consider what happened
(26:21):
under the Hansom and Chew regime was pretty stressing to
be a part of. But you know, you live your
learn that.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Chris, Yeah, I agree with Pete. I I thought that
his biggest blot was he absolutely ran for cover over
over fuzzy. I mean to tell to tell him if
we're led to believe by you guys, you know, the
media and everyone else were to believe that that virtually
(26:50):
he was told that if he didn't want an Elice
Park and then then he was out.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well it works, they won. Yeah, if that is the case,
And like we we don't know that many nechanations of that,
do we, But that is the general consensus that that
was what was this look it might be in this book,
I think.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
Because I remember Jeff Wilson, Sandram laughrellas back, do you
think you were the all black coach next week? And
he said, I don't care. He said, i'mnna have a
good night tonight. So and the other thing is to
be fair. I mean, you know, he well, I know
a lot of all sports CEOs had to handle COVID,
but we didn't. Rugby in this country didn't handle it
(27:38):
anywhere near as good as that chairman of the Rugby
League in Australia, you know. So, yeah, that was a
bit up and down in his era of South Africa.
That parted. Super Rugby has never much been much chopped
since when you say.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
That about Super Roby, because it was staggering because of
the weakness of the Australian sides. I think we had
our own competition. There was a riffed schism between the
two side. But what they've done this year I think
shows that they've got common good and they wanted to
make it work. And it was almost by accident because
(28:17):
the rebels self imploded and when they did, suddenly it
made Super Rugby. And I think that they aid it,
they assisted, they helped Australia and they've caught up by
hilk or by crooked it's made for a better competition.
So you could look at that and go, well, he
was behind the lifting of it after you said and
Gregor said COVID, which hammered so many people on so
(28:40):
many different fronts.
Speaker 8 (28:42):
I agree with that. I totally agree with that. There
one thing that hasn't done. I guess they can't do
anything about it. They haven't lifted the crowd and as
you say, it's mean probably the best rugby, best Super
rugby season since the South Africans left, but the crowds
haven't been lifted. And the other thing is does it
was easier for Steve Hanson and him and Chewie were
(29:04):
great mates.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I suppose it helps, but you've got to look the
reason was handsome because he was such a good coach.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Well yeah, and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
He was there a season too long or a campaign
too long.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
Oh possibly, But as you said too, he was like
Steve cho was. I mean, he was hard. He was
a hard you know he was. He was a hard man.
He he ruled the he was in a rugby union board,
didn't he Well you knew.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Who the boss was, and there was kind of almost
comfort in that, even though honestly, so many people have
thrown ideas up about who would who would want the job? Chris,
I'm sure it's well remunerated, but I'm not sure if
you'd like that job. It's so much pressure from the
(29:54):
grassroots right up to the fancy pants someone that James mcclennan,
the former CEO of Rugby Australia, suggested maybe Rob Nickel
from the Plaza Association could roll in here and run
the show.
Speaker 8 (30:07):
So when does it come in next season?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Poacher, Gamekeeper? It goes to the end of the year
and then I suppose they'll be looking at it out
of the next six months in between trying to find
some kind of deal with Sky. And that's the big thing,
as Gregor pointed out, that you know they leave with
a positive financial record around the broadcast rights, that that'll
make things a lot easier for the next guy's coming in.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
Okay, we'll wait and see it. Would I agree with you,
it'd be tough whoever it is, well.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It will be. We've been throwing these ideas around in
the office around who would actually want the job, who
could actually do the job? He got any ideas? Text
them in nine two niney two. That's zeb zeb I mean,
really would you want it? Does it have to be
a rugby person? Got to just be like an out
(31:01):
and outsider. Because our next guest is Daryl Gibson. He's
a rugby person, but he's just walked into one of
the most influential jobs in New Zealand cricket is the
new high performance director. He's covering Bryce Stronach has left.
That guy's been around over a decade. Juji respected. So
(31:23):
instead of getting another cricket person, they've got a rugby person.
And who's to be fair, spent a lot of time
working in high performance, high performance sporting Z. But we'll
talk to Daryl Gibson next about his new role. It's
twenty minutes to eight and it's a sports too. They're
a news doorg ZB.
Speaker 10 (31:48):
Someone from me on the dumble side of whist.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Ja down his stegh.
Speaker 10 (31:54):
There's a party downtown here Fish Street. Everybody had Bardy,
everybody had.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Eight sports or care and that news talk zed B
and you have a high performance coach for and your
selling cricket was announced the day. His name is Darryl
Gibson and he joins us now, good evening, Daryl. It's
been a while, mate, how are you.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
It's been a long, long period between drinks.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I didn't think I'd be talking about cricket with you
next time I spoke to you, but I am. You've
got yourself a new role. You are looking after high
performance for cricket in ZED. That's after a roller to
high performance sport in ZED. So first question most people
are asking, what do you know about cricket, Darryl Gibson.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
I'll tell you what, Darcy. I'm going to be a
quick learner. That's what I'm going to be. Obviously, like
many New Zealanders growing up on a diet of rugby
and cricket, you know, consumed that during the eighties, early
nineties when it was on free to air, and yeah,
really just looking forward to joining what I see as
a very progressive, agile New Zealand cricket organization.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So you're taking from Brian stron Ach huge amount of
respect in the cricketing community for what Stroney as they
call him, offered. So what are you doing to compliment that?
To move it on? Do you consider what he left behind?
Is it a fresh start for you?
Speaker 6 (33:34):
No? No, absolutely, I think it's on the shoulder of giants.
Incredible legacy left by both Gary Stronnie, all the players
administrational people that have built this legacy of sustain New
Zealand success. You know, we are consistently a top four
cricketing nation. You know, I think part of the challenge
(33:57):
for myself and Robber is the new incoming head coach
and HBD is you know, how do we approve upon
that and then also what's the performance edge that's missing
that will help us begin to really win trophies.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I want to ask what that is because then had
time to talk to Rob Walter about that. That's so
you get there. You know what, Rob, though you don't
want to reinvent the way when you get in that
it's a matter of fate under the disk and just
roll from there.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
Absolutely, you know, it's have a look, you know, get
in there is guaranteed to be stuff that we do
better than any other nation in the world. And it's
making sure that a we recognize and identify what those
things are, make sure they remain a strength, but then
also systematically go about looking for the provements the gaps
(34:41):
that we can make in performance. Both and you know,
obviously the black Caps and the White Ferns one thing
I'm really passionate about Darcy and I'm really grateful for
my time at High Performance Sport is important as the
pathways and that identification of talent and how we bring
that talent through. So I see some real opportunities to
(35:02):
add some value there and I'm really looking forward to
getting when I start in mid July.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Primarily, Darryl, what does your role encompass? If you can
summarize it in the paragraph, what would it be were
you supposed to laugh? Mate? Come if you did that?
In the do you just see you on your backside?
Speaker 10 (35:21):
What do you have to do?
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Well? Take everyone in New Zealand you look at your
job description and then you look at what you actually
do and you think, well, that's nothing closely resembling that.
But no, I obviously in charge of all our performance
side of New Zealand Cricket. So we'll see the performances
of Black Caps and White Ferns or our Age Group
and New zeal And A teams. You know, any team
(35:45):
in black really that's playing under the banner of New
Zealand Cricket, that's one side. Does you know that performance side?
I think that the real opportunity for me is how
do we systemize and make sure that as a sport
we're sustainable and years to come. You know, we've got
a small talent pool here in New Zealand. We've known
(36:06):
that for a long time. How do we make sure
we're maximizing that talent and bringing it through so New
Zealand remains strong every year?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
How do you know if you if it's working or not?
Do you Obviously they talk about key performance indicators, but
do you look across here. It's not a contract, you
an employee now, but look across that note what what
do you have to hurt? What do you mark so
you know this is actually working? And how long do
you think you've got on the role before you can say, yeah,
this is actually going somewhere.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
Yeah, that's right. I think you know my performance sport
often decisions are made and then it takes a while
system wise, you know, for those things to eventuate. We've
seen plenty of cases of administration and people making decisions
that have impacted the performance of the team in years
to come. You know, I has it a guess, Darcy.
(36:52):
Last time I spoke to you, I was in charge
of Auretas in Australia, you know, and there's one sport
that is still coming to terms with decisions that were
made decades ago. So we're conscious of the work and
the decisions and system foundational pieces that they don't disrupt
(37:14):
or don't dismantle more like but in hearts so we
are a strong cricket nation from the years too, So.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Need to carry on the success and how nimble new
Zelling cricket has been dealing with things like the T
twenty leagues and the changing of the landscape. So you
need to keep that current. But you need to know
that in the future, whatever you've set up means going
to carry on carrying on. So but sooth say, you're
kind of looking into the future hoping that what you've
learned through your time high performance sport end z and
(37:42):
you know, coaching at a top level, playing rugby to
the top level, that will be able to implement some
of these changes that will bring success.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Absolutely, you've hit it on the head and it is
navigating the complexity which is the changing world of high
per sport. You know, crystal ball, you would never have
thought IPL leagues popping up around the world and the
enormous amounts of money that players make by participating. I
think the fact that New Zealand Cricket have brought a
franchise into the American leagues it just shows you just
(38:13):
how fast things can move, and then how agile you
need to be to be able to adapt quickly to
make sure that your sport remains relevant and that you
have enough investment to invest back into the grassroots of
the game to make sure it's strong. So certainly I'm
looking forward to getting stuck into that, Darcy. It's my
(38:35):
impressions of New Zealand Cricket is an agile, progressive organization
that wants to position itself such that the sport of
Era and New Zealand thrives. I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
In the interview, they would have asked you, not that
I'm privy of this kind of information, Dale Gibson, why
you what can you bring? So stand up and tell
us now, pretending you're interviewing, what makes Darryl Gibson speaking
that other person the ideal man to head high performance
and cricket in z Why are you well?
Speaker 6 (39:06):
I think I'm going to add value, Darcy in a
number of ways. Probably this does sound much an interview
does that. I've got a real genuine empathy for coaching,
having spent fourteen odd years playing that trade.
Speaker 9 (39:20):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
I get what it's like to be a coach, and
I also understand intimately the support that you know, the
high performance person that you report to can give you.
So I'm going to come at up with that, Lis,
I don't want to be coach centric and the fact
that you know, I'm going to be all in Rob
and Ben Sawyer's business in terms of their roles with
(39:44):
the Black Caps and White films, but certainly close enough
to them to really add some value.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
No, DMO, We've got the breakdowns on Sports Talks.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Seven fifty one. Now there is one relaxed high performance manager,
A great talk with Darryl Gibson. Again. We're going to
finish up the show with a few texts at surely
plenty of text traffic around a number of subjects, and
I thank you very much for that. It's news talks,
heb it'd say it away from it. So I'm tensing
(40:23):
with life course, sammywhere I still see you come and
go home to a few texts for you to sample
before we leave. Steve k Ruined super and Club Rugby.
Thank you, Jeremy. Are quite a few people said that,
(40:46):
but nothing to do with Mark Robinson. Someone else says,
maybe David Kirk will take the job. Your's the chair.
I don't think you can do both at the same time.
The CEO of the Warriors, Cameron George, will be the
man to take rugby to the next level of what
he's done with the Warriors. Someone else wants to know
what Steve did for Super Rugby and anything below. Absolutely nothing.
(41:09):
He was entirely focused on the All Blacks. Okay. Someone
else having a crack at Dame Patsy and Mark Robinson.
Thank you for that. I want to know who's going
to take over rights another as silver Lake going to
want to try and get some guy in there from
(41:29):
the States. Du I hope not Hamish. I hope not.
We'll find out. Can't say I'm happy Rights Another maybe
a C minus. But he did a job. Maybe he
tried to go to the wrong track with silver Lake,
but it didn't go completely Uh huh rugby that is
(41:51):
I suppose it's a past Mark, isn't it. I think
women's rugby under his watch has gone reasonably well. Oh
Picky has yet to really kick on though, But it's started,
it started to get in there. As I said, the
resk of Super Rugbies work particularly well overall, a much
(42:12):
friendlier face, a conduit from the rugby union through to
the public. But that that silver lake that'll horn it
for a long time. But we don't We don't know
how that's going to work out. It may turn to
be wonderful. I don't think it will be. I'm still
shakespeare in on it. Charlotte will get his pound of flesh.
(42:34):
Read the Merchant of Venish and what I'm talking about.
And the whole Foster Racer Robertson thing was untidy, untidy,
but he talked to me. It's got to be your bonus,
doesn't it. Hey, Ans Millity, thanks for producing the program,
Thanks all for listening them. Do I see autograph gets
(42:56):
you again tomorrow?
Speaker 6 (42:57):
But oh jud
Speaker 1 (43:00):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh my lord, it's Tuesday. Quick back to the office
or should that be studio Good evening? My name is
Darcy Waldgrave his Sports Talk on a Tuesday evening, tenth
of June twenty twenty five. Coming up seven after seven
tonight on the program, see Mark Robinson's walked? Why not walked?
(00:38):
He's decided to step down role he would have held
for six years by the time he exits stage left
come the end of the year. It's the chief executive
officer of New Zealand Rugby Union. We've had twenty four
hours to digest this news. I'm going to not pick
(01:00):
through Robbo's career, but my very learned rugby scribe friend,
I think I can call on that. Gregor if you're
listening you don't like that, hang up now, he writes
from He's yelling how it writes rugby inside and out?
Knows a lot about it. Is there a pass mark?
How do you judge what Mark Robinson has achieved in
(01:22):
his time and control? What he's done, what's worked, what's failed?
And one has to happen in the next six months
before he does step down to secure his legacy, not
that he went into this role to pick up a
legacy and go down as one of the great CEOs
of he's ZeLing Rugby. But I'm sure I'd like to
(01:42):
leave a house in order, more in better condition than
when he right. So we'll talk to Gregor about that.
We'll take your calls on that too. You can pick
a bad thing and pick a good thing, so I
don't think punching down on anyone from this position is
a good idea. I think that Mark Robinson's done a
lot of really good things. I think he's also had
a lot of pretty poor times, and there's been some
(02:04):
debatable decisions that he's been partied. I'd like your thoughts
on that. It's not a hate fest. Give me some good,
give me some bad on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty context of thoughts of course, nineteen nineteen. That is
ZEBZB that'll cost your standards text charge. Mind joining the
program were we're going to be talking with Daryl Gibson.
(02:25):
He's a former New South Wales wireta's head coach, former
Cantab Crusader, former All Black and he's taking the job
as the manager of high Performance for cricket in New Zealand. Okay,
he'll join us latter on a piece and we'll find
out what on earth he's doing in that role. Did
(02:45):
he apply for the wrong job? What does he actually bring?
He comes from high performance in high performance sport in
z so for him to move to high performance and
Heeland cricket makes perfect sense. He joins U latter on
the piece to talk about the role he has and
what he hopes to achieve. And on the text Naney
(03:06):
not the lead story shocking, Well what do we doing
on that? What do you want me to say? He's
signed next? Anyway before we getting him in here that
it's still even this. Oh, here's Naney. Let's go today
for the All Black and wa Nani La mape is
(03:27):
coming home to terrorize at super Arguing Pacific back lines
the bowling ball the Fienders back to play for Muana
Passifica next season.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I came back as well and to be a part
of the first Wine of Pacific team to win the camp.
There'll be something pretty special, I'll see. This has to
be a lot of hard work and a lot of
things behind the scenes that we'll have to do.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Former Warrior and qiy Shaw Johnson is experiencing love from
the people. It was a mercurial player, look it up,
and he got ridden hard by the fans when they're
proverbial hit the air conditioning. Now he's a pundit and
it's just some very promising signs. The people have opened
their arms for him to be fair. He knows the
(04:12):
game inside out and he is the required mental horsepower
and associated macabuary to have a long and fruitful career.
This could be fantastic.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Just by being myself and offering my takes and perspective
and insight that has been received really well. And I've
actually probably got more positive feedback since I've retired than
I did throughout my playing career, which is pretty pretty crazy.
I feel generally more loved right now than when I
was playing, and that little.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Laughless courtesy of my costing. Shawn appeared on the HOSK
Breakfast this morning. Hamus mcleannan, former a Rugby Australian Chief executive,
worked without going into our CEO, Mark Robinson, and he
found the experience pleasing.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Super Rugby was certainly up in the air and covid
Ha hit he was there's a lot of friction system
and you know, to be honest with you, Rugby Australia
was not in good shape at all. Certain masks always
a very nigh guy, super ethical.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Sam Healey, the Warriors understudy hooker to Wade again,
got very late notice that he was going to start
against his dad's old team. This shuts, he told the
Big League Podcast. He pulled me aside and said there's
a chance, and I said, I don't really know.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
And then about twenty.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
Minutes later I looked at Wado and looked too.
Speaker 8 (05:29):
Good, So I thought, yeah, I'm probably.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Ones and today and toda, what a game. Indeed that was.
In fact it his team naming Tuesday, but there's no
team being named because they've got a BISO. There you go,
and that's sport today. At twelve minutes after seven, Mark Robinson,
former center, ended up as a CEO, the CEO of
(05:53):
New Zealand Rugby, arguably one of the most high profile
and difficult jobs in sport. Here in New Zealand, no
where to run, no where to hide. Everybody has opinions,
and everybody's they feel free to share these opinions. Whether
he's been good whether he's been bad, ugly, indifferent. It's
(06:14):
quite the step down. And to talk about that. Gregor Paul,
he's in New Zealand Herald at Rugby Scribe, a regular
on the program. He's been following this guy for a
long time. So let's find out what Gregor Paul has
made of what Mark Robinson has contributed to New Zealand
(06:36):
Rugby in his time in the flash suit behind the
Mahogany desk. Good Evening, Gregor. News came out last night
that Mark Robinson, CEO of n Z is to stand
down at the end of the year. It will be
a six year tenure. Looking back at those six years,
I think maybe tumultuous is an understatement, is it not, Gregor?
(06:59):
What does this guy leave?
Speaker 9 (07:01):
Difficult to know what he leaves because that's not me
fudging your question. It's largely because the single most significant
thing that he did was sign off on an agreement
to sell an equity stake in New Zealand Rugby's commercial
assets to.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Us By, manager of Silver.
Speaker 9 (07:23):
Lake, and everything in his tenure will be defined by that.
And the answer to whether that worked whether it didn't work,
remains unclear because it's probably going to take another five
to eight years before we can see the full impact
of that decision. If you're going on the evidence of
what we've seen so far and what we've seen in
(07:43):
other private equity deals in other parts of the world,
particularly Europe, the evidence is certainly pointing considerably harder now
towards this being a bad idea, that it hasn't delivered
the kind of revolutionary, transformational revenue that they were expecting.
(08:04):
A silver lake are not the silver bullet excuse the over.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Use of so over there.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
And then it was ultimately, as some myself included and
others foresaw, was ultimately not the right play for New
Zealand Rugby to get into it. And it's a legacy
play in the sense that they've sold an equity state
that they may never be able to buy back, and
that they will pay the price for that forever, Which
(08:31):
is why it's such a singularly important topic in relation
to looking at what happened in Mark Robinson's tenure. So
it's really difficult to look beyond that if you're asking
for sort of immediacy. Some of what has been reshaped
on his watch happened as a result of the COVID pandemic.
So the geopolitics of the Samsar Alliance were redrawn by
(08:54):
just Then rather than Mark Robinson, because she closed the
border for two years and that created a need, an
absolute immediate need to really configure Super Rugby and it
became a Pacific only competition. Now you could say, well,
you know that was down to the administration. I argue
it was down to circumstance. So that's another major change
(09:15):
on Mirk Robinson's watch, and the other sort of changes
I suppose they were seeing. You know, we're going to
say some change in the international calendar, the arrival of
the Nation's Cup competition. But again I don't think you
can say that's down to New Zealand or down to Robinson.
That's down to you know, the world rugby partners all
working together.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
To change that.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
So in answer to what he specifically has changed, other
than doing a deal with silver Lake, not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
He was the man who made the decision. I was
on his shoulders around silver Lake. But can it all
really be set at his fate when there are so
many other people involved. He was the spokesperson, if you will,
and you feel it was more than that.
Speaker 9 (10:01):
Well you're the CEO, you know, and when you are
the CEO, when you're the head coach, when you're the
obvious leader of an organization, Yeah, the people around you
are working to the same outcomes. So yeah, his staff
were working as fervently to get a deal silver Lake
over the line. Yeah, it's ultimately the ultimate boss who
takes accountability and responsibility for these for that initiative.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
And that's how history works.
Speaker 9 (10:25):
Starts, you know, like we look at Margaret Thatcher's tenure
in politics, we look at John Keys tenure in politics.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Yeah, when you're the leader, you.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
Carry the can for everything that goes on on your watch.
That's how it has to get played. I think Mark
was a really strong believer in the notion of a
private equity deal being the only option available to New
Zealand Rugby if their mission was to globalize the All
Blacks more stringently than they had to find some more
(10:57):
global sponsorship money, to find some more Japanese, American, British
based fans and grow the whole footprint of brand All
Blacks to therefore draw the revenue that's attached to it.
Because New Zealand, as we all know, is ultimately a
country of five million people and it's quite difficult to
get the brand value of the all black paid out
(11:18):
by the domestic population.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He came in behind Steve Chew, who ruled the roost
with an iron fist, but without a sign of a
velvet glove anywhere. Difficult for Mark to come into that
role considering what Steve left behind, because the peers he
came all with a friendlier face, a more open face,
more of an idea to connect with the New Zealand
(11:41):
rugby public were previously things that are attracted terms like
the Kremlin and the Light. Did that make it any
easier for him or not?
Speaker 9 (11:49):
No, Look, I don't think it makes a huge deal
of difference. I think what you're referring to, I don't
think it's more a sort of stylistic notion of what
Steve chu brought as compared with you know, a friendlier,
user friendly Mark Robinson. I think the issue probably was
that Mark arrived in an organization and this was not
to disparage anything that Steve too did, but it was
(12:09):
apparent that the financial model of rugby worldwide, but specifically
in New Zealand needed to be reconsidered because what was
essentially happening was a game, was living off the proceeds
of British and Irish Lions tours that would come every
twelve years. It'd get a bumper load of cash. They
would bank all that and by the time the Lions
came round again, they were out of money and they
(12:32):
needed another one, and it was an unsustainable model. You know,
the old Lecks had dabbled, or you know, I guess
the old Blacks should say, yes, had dabbled a little
bit in playing test matches offshore. They had EIG who
were a US insurer who had given them a sense
of being a bigger player, and you know what it
meant to be a global brand. But really, by the
time Mark came on board, a lot of things were
(12:52):
converging and the organization needed to take a far more
international outlook and needed to lean into that way harder
than it had been. The financial model need to be reconsidered,
which was all linked into the globalization of everything. So
really he arrives at a time where change was an
(13:12):
absolute necessity for that organization to get itself on a
more stable foundation, and therefore would we probably associate the
stylistic differences between the two as being you know, as
being what was different about them, Not not really. I
think Mark had to take New Zealand Rugby and park
it more as an international focused, outward looking entity, which
(13:37):
and a more complex organization as well. And I think
Steve was a classic sports administrator who'd come through the
domestic ranks and really he'd taken the organization as far
as he could take it, and it needed a new
person to, you know, to make the changes that Mark
was charged with making.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
One of the biggest is when he was in charge,
like he still got six months to go, was the
handling of the Foster the Robertson situation. Nothing either on
got leaf or the egg on their face and muddle
over the walls of that one. How he handled that?
Speaker 9 (14:13):
Yeah, well you're asking me, and you're asking me at
a time where I've got deeper insight into that because
Ian Foster's written the book about this. I wrote the
book with him, so I've got a really good handle
on how that played out. The book is out next week.
I'm trying not to give spoilers away here. So what
(14:36):
I would say in answer to that, read the book
from a perspective of how would you feel if you
were the Old Blacks coach, and yep, there could be
some who would argue that it wasn't a massively successful
tenure that Ian Foster had if you look at it
just purely on a results basis. There were circumstances that
were difficult no matter who the CEO was that would
(14:58):
have been, you know, the arrival of COVID, closing of borders,
living in biobubbles, all these things that are massive impact
on schedules, the way the team trained, the way they.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
Had to play.
Speaker 9 (15:08):
But I think just read the book and you'll be
able to draw your own conclusions as to how well
that scenario was handled, because there's certain things that are
revealed in there that would make would make an exercise
in leadership and communication quite a worthwhile process.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
He's not leaving because of the book, is Egregor.
Speaker 9 (15:34):
No, he's not leaving because of the book. But but
it's that we haven't heard from Eating Foster, and obviously
asking me about Mark Foster, Mark Robinson, but we haven't
heard from him. And one of the things I'd say
about Robbo is if we look at the high performance sphere,
if you like, there were definitely issues with that on
(15:57):
his watch. I mean the Black Ferns went to a
World Cup having you know, to parachute Wayne Smith in
as their coach, and they had an effective temporary coaching
crew you know who were put in. I can't remember
it was it three months or four months before the tournament.
We had an all black team go to a World
Cup with the decision already made that the existing coaching
(16:19):
crew and most of the management team were being told
already you know, you're not going to be here after
the World Cup. That was an unprecedented situation. Did it
destabilize the team? No, not really. But was it unusual
for these guys to be going to a tournament with
that level of disruption.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
Yes, we've never seen that before.
Speaker 9 (16:39):
And now we've got an under twenty team that is
off to the Junior World Championship again, just on the
eve of the tournament, the head coach has resigned because
clearly there was a lack of alignment between him and
the various deputies. So that's three World Cups, three years
in a row where national teams are going with some
(16:59):
kind of coaching drama late in the piece, which has
impacted the preparation. And I think if you want to
going about legacy. It is clear to me that there's
some issues not not confined to Mike Robinson's leadership around
high performance, but clearly there's a there's an issue with
the high performance team and management of high performance teams
(17:22):
in New Zealand right now.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Over the next six months. What can he do? What
should he do? Is it a case of just hold
it steady before he departs? Is there anything he can.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Do for you?
Speaker 9 (17:33):
Well, there's one critical piece of work, which is to
is to sign a podcast agreement before he leaves. That
has to happen because the current agreement runs out at
the end of the year. So that is an absolute must.
And that's a biggie because you know, any major sports,
professional sports entity, your broadcast income is paramount to you,
(17:54):
you know, to your success because it forms a huge
part of your revenue. This has gone on for quite
some time, this sort of stalemate between ends and aren't Sky.
You know, I've been reporting that Sky has made a
monetary or where that's about anything between twenty to twenty
five million dollars less than New Zealand Rugby currently own.
So there's a real need, you know, New Zealand Rugby
(18:16):
can't afford to take an income hit of that size
on such an important piece of real estate for them.
They've got to find a way for this deal when
they sign it. They've got to find a way for
broadcast in its entirety. Now, what I mean by that
is if they do not get a great price from
the domestic broadcaster, who will be Sky, then they need
(18:38):
to find a way to be selling the international rights
to overseas broadcasters. Sky UK canal clue whoever. They've got
to try and get the make the shortfall that they're
looking at domestically, they've got to make that up internationally.
And I think you could say if they get to
the point where they retain next year what they are
(19:00):
currently earning this year on broadcast revenue, I would probably
consider that a win for Robinson. But there's a secondary
caveat which is this is contrary to the sales pitch
that was given three years ago about the reasons for
bringing in silver Lake as an investment partner, because we
(19:21):
were being told that bringing them in, with their experience
and selling broadcast rights and understanding digital content, that we
were going to see these transformational lifts in broadcast revenue.
Now that's clearly not going to happen on this occasion
if we're looking at a break even scenario, and then
we're another five years down the track before they get
(19:42):
another crack.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
At fixing this.
Speaker 9 (19:44):
So that puts a real question mark on the value
of having silver Lake sitting there as a partner, because
they've had you know, this was their time to bang
it in the back of the net, and they've spuned
it over the bar. And now we're being told, oh, well,
hang on, you've got to wait another five years and
we'll see if they can park this one into an
open goal. And that's the danger for as I talked
(20:05):
about earlier. But you know, the Hawt Robinson legacy, it
hangs on what ultimately proves to be the value of
having brought silver Lake in as a partner.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports and men.
Have your say on eighty Sports Talk on your home
of sports news talk z it be.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Gregor Paul there and you sound herald journalist. And as
it turns out, he's written a book and coats with
Ian Foster about what happened there. Out next week, Phily
keen for Gregor to send me a free one because
I'm mean looking forward to reading that one. Sounds like
there's a few things and I know this was not
a long advertisement for Gregor's book. I don't know he's
(20:48):
going to come up with that, which is nice to
talk to him and he knows something. So Mark Robinson,
he's one one six months. That's the end of his
tenure as the CEO of n Z are the biggest
takeaway from that chat as we cannot define whether his
(21:08):
tenure was positive or negative until we see the final
tide of Silver Lake and how that operated many many
years before we know if that decision was any good
or not. So you have to hit pause on that.
(21:30):
My question to you as a fan of rugby and
everyone went through the two era and he was a
very sound administrator. He was also the boss and you
were under no illusions that he wasn't. Mark Robinson came
(21:51):
in as much friendly as face, much friendlier face for
rugby in New Zealand to possibly wilt that kremlin like
wall that had been built up. But for you as
a fan, when you step back and look at what
he's done, is he passed as he failed? What should
(22:11):
he have done better? What will you remember of this
that he's not dead, right, an't you wrong? Guys not
pushing up Daisies's just retiring from his role. What it
is one of the most important roles in New Zealand sport.
I like you to tell me you're positive and a negative.
If you want to lean on the negatives, well you're
more than welcome. It's your program too, positives as well.
(22:36):
Pass fail fifty to fifty? Would he get school sirit?
Does anyone out there still know what school sit is?
It's quite big back in my day. It's twenty nine
minutes after seven Sports Talker and News Talks AB your
text to Rolling on and nineteen nine two ZBZB standard
text charge does apply. I'd love to hear your voice.
Though a good thing a bad thing? Has he been
(22:59):
a good CEO for New Zealand? Rate is his News
Talks AB?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
The right call is your call on eight hundred eighty
eighty Sports Talk Call on your home of Sports News
Talk ZID.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Nobody Let's key to the phones, one hundred eighty ten
eighty three phone number nation wide, Mark Robinson? What does
he leave behind? What did he drop? What did he pass?
What did he run with? What did he punt into
the stands, the good, the bad, the indifferent. Mark Robinson
(23:49):
stepping down as the chief executive of in z Ah
Good evening, peek in ay gang, good mate, what about yourself?
Speaker 7 (24:00):
Not too badly. I just didn't like the way how
he handled Ian Foster. You know, it wasn't doing too
bady and you wouldn't do that to employ employee. He
was working for a company, So totally on that way,
how he's handled that, I reckon it was quite disgusting.
You know, in the normal work and in ployment, he
had up for unfair dismissal and he got away. I
(24:21):
hope he doesn't treat his kids the same as he
treats Ian. I just got lost totally respect because of that.
Of that, totally, I don't as much time for the guy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And that is based on not that he dismissed him,
but that it went through so many stages and it
was played out on a public stage.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
Definitely. Yeah, he's just even doing that. You know, he's
not that clever because I think I think a lot
of people think the same way as that's that's actually
just yeah, that's not that's something nice. How he handled
that situation at all, and yeah, he doesn't get he
doesn't get my respect at all. Just totally on that topic, okay.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And that's the overarching that's the shadow on you, Pete.
That's what I'm after. What will people remember? And this
is something that is going to be covered plainly. As
Gregor mentioned in this book that he's written in cahoots
with Ian Foster about how that unfolded. I tell you what, Pete,
I won't tell a lie. It made for great talkback,
was fantastic for us.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
There's an old saying, don't you to someone else that
was not done to yourself? And I don't think he'd
be like he put in Ian's position where you as
a coach, he treated it like that. So just so
how he handled that was so appalling.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
To be honest, Pete, thanks very much for your honest opinion.
I think he'd probably look back at that as well
and go that was clumsy. I think probably the nicest
way of describing it. And I was talking about this
back at the time under Steve too, this would never
have happened. He was a lot colder and a lot
more firm on the actions that happened beneath him. I
(25:59):
don't think it would have got away, and I believe
that he would look back at that and go, yep,
could have been done better because it was an embarrassing
time for New Zealand rugby. I mean it was embarrassing
the way Ian Foster sacked a couple of his co
coaches when it looked like it was curtains for him.
That the whole era was when you consider what happened
(26:21):
under the Hansom and Chew regime was pretty stressing to
be a part of. But you know, you live your
learn that.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Chris, Yeah, I agree with Pete. I I thought that
his biggest blot was he absolutely ran for cover over
over fuzzy. I mean to tell to tell him if
we're led to believe by you guys, you know, the
media and everyone else were to believe that that virtually
(26:50):
he was told that if he didn't want an Elice
Park and then then he was out.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well it works, they won. Yeah, if that is the case,
And like we we don't know that many nechanations of that,
do we, But that is the general consensus that that
was what was this look it might be in this book,
I think.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
Because I remember Jeff Wilson, Sandram laughrellas back, do you
think you were the all black coach next week? And
he said, I don't care. He said, i'mnna have a
good night tonight. So and the other thing is to
be fair. I mean, you know, he well, I know
a lot of all sports CEOs had to handle COVID,
but we didn't. Rugby in this country didn't handle it
(27:38):
anywhere near as good as that chairman of the Rugby
League in Australia, you know. So, yeah, that was a
bit up and down in his era of South Africa.
That parted. Super Rugby has never much been much chopped
since when you say.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
That about Super Roby, because it was staggering because of
the weakness of the Australian sides. I think we had
our own competition. There was a riffed schism between the
two side. But what they've done this year I think
shows that they've got common good and they wanted to
make it work. And it was almost by accident because
(28:17):
the rebels self imploded and when they did, suddenly it
made Super Rugby. And I think that they aid it,
they assisted, they helped Australia and they've caught up by
hilk or by crooked it's made for a better competition.
So you could look at that and go, well, he
was behind the lifting of it after you said and
Gregor said COVID, which hammered so many people on so
(28:40):
many different fronts.
Speaker 8 (28:42):
I agree with that. I totally agree with that. There
one thing that hasn't done. I guess they can't do
anything about it. They haven't lifted the crowd and as
you say, it's mean probably the best rugby, best Super
rugby season since the South Africans left, but the crowds
haven't been lifted. And the other thing is does it
was easier for Steve Hanson and him and Chewie were
(29:04):
great mates.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I suppose it helps, but you've got to look the
reason was handsome because he was such a good coach.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Well yeah, and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
He was there a season too long or a campaign
too long.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
Oh possibly, But as you said too, he was like
Steve cho was. I mean, he was hard. He was
a hard you know he was. He was a hard man.
He he ruled the he was in a rugby union board,
didn't he Well you knew.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Who the boss was, and there was kind of almost
comfort in that, even though honestly, so many people have
thrown ideas up about who would who would want the job? Chris,
I'm sure it's well remunerated, but I'm not sure if
you'd like that job. It's so much pressure from the
(29:54):
grassroots right up to the fancy pants someone that James mcclennan,
the former CEO of Rugby Australia, suggested maybe Rob Nickel
from the Plaza Association could roll in here and run
the show.
Speaker 8 (30:07):
So when does it come in next season?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Poacher, Gamekeeper? It goes to the end of the year
and then I suppose they'll be looking at it out
of the next six months in between trying to find
some kind of deal with Sky. And that's the big thing,
as Gregor pointed out, that you know they leave with
a positive financial record around the broadcast rights, that that'll
make things a lot easier for the next guy's coming in.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
Okay, we'll wait and see it. Would I agree with you,
it'd be tough whoever it is, well.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It will be. We've been throwing these ideas around in
the office around who would actually want the job, who
could actually do the job? He got any ideas? Text
them in nine two niney two. That's zeb zeb I mean,
really would you want it? Does it have to be
a rugby person? Got to just be like an out
(31:01):
and outsider. Because our next guest is Daryl Gibson. He's
a rugby person, but he's just walked into one of
the most influential jobs in New Zealand cricket is the
new high performance director. He's covering Bryce Stronach has left.
That guy's been around over a decade. Juji respected. So
(31:23):
instead of getting another cricket person, they've got a rugby person.
And who's to be fair, spent a lot of time
working in high performance, high performance sporting Z. But we'll
talk to Daryl Gibson next about his new role. It's
twenty minutes to eight and it's a sports too. They're
a news doorg ZB.
Speaker 10 (31:48):
Someone from me on the dumble side of whist.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Ja down his stegh.
Speaker 10 (31:54):
There's a party downtown here Fish Street. Everybody had Bardy,
everybody had.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Eight sports or care and that news talk zed B
and you have a high performance coach for and your
selling cricket was announced the day. His name is Darryl
Gibson and he joins us now, good evening, Daryl. It's
been a while, mate, how are you.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
It's been a long, long period between drinks.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I didn't think I'd be talking about cricket with you
next time I spoke to you, but I am. You've
got yourself a new role. You are looking after high
performance for cricket in ZED. That's after a roller to
high performance sport in ZED. So first question most people
are asking, what do you know about cricket, Darryl Gibson.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
I'll tell you what, Darcy. I'm going to be a
quick learner. That's what I'm going to be. Obviously, like
many New Zealanders growing up on a diet of rugby
and cricket, you know, consumed that during the eighties, early
nineties when it was on free to air, and yeah,
really just looking forward to joining what I see as
a very progressive, agile New Zealand cricket organization.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So you're taking from Brian stron Ach huge amount of
respect in the cricketing community for what Stroney as they
call him, offered. So what are you doing to compliment that?
To move it on? Do you consider what he left behind?
Is it a fresh start for you?
Speaker 6 (33:34):
No? No, absolutely, I think it's on the shoulder of giants.
Incredible legacy left by both Gary Stronnie, all the players
administrational people that have built this legacy of sustain New
Zealand success. You know, we are consistently a top four
cricketing nation. You know, I think part of the challenge
(33:57):
for myself and Robber is the new incoming head coach
and HBD is you know, how do we approve upon
that and then also what's the performance edge that's missing
that will help us begin to really win trophies.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I want to ask what that is because then had
time to talk to Rob Walter about that. That's so
you get there. You know what, Rob, though you don't
want to reinvent the way when you get in that
it's a matter of fate under the disk and just
roll from there.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
Absolutely, you know, it's have a look, you know, get
in there is guaranteed to be stuff that we do
better than any other nation in the world. And it's
making sure that a we recognize and identify what those
things are, make sure they remain a strength, but then
also systematically go about looking for the provements the gaps
(34:41):
that we can make in performance. Both and you know,
obviously the black Caps and the White Ferns one thing
I'm really passionate about Darcy and I'm really grateful for
my time at High Performance Sport is important as the
pathways and that identification of talent and how we bring
that talent through. So I see some real opportunities to
(35:02):
add some value there and I'm really looking forward to
getting when I start in mid July.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Primarily, Darryl, what does your role encompass? If you can
summarize it in the paragraph, what would it be were
you supposed to laugh? Mate? Come if you did that?
In the do you just see you on your backside?
Speaker 10 (35:21):
What do you have to do?
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Well? Take everyone in New Zealand you look at your
job description and then you look at what you actually
do and you think, well, that's nothing closely resembling that.
But no, I obviously in charge of all our performance
side of New Zealand Cricket. So we'll see the performances
of Black Caps and White Ferns or our Age Group
and New zeal And A teams. You know, any team
(35:45):
in black really that's playing under the banner of New
Zealand Cricket, that's one side. Does you know that performance side?
I think that the real opportunity for me is how
do we systemize and make sure that as a sport
we're sustainable and years to come. You know, we've got
a small talent pool here in New Zealand. We've known
(36:06):
that for a long time. How do we make sure
we're maximizing that talent and bringing it through so New
Zealand remains strong every year?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
How do you know if you if it's working or not?
Do you Obviously they talk about key performance indicators, but
do you look across here. It's not a contract, you
an employee now, but look across that note what what
do you have to hurt? What do you mark so
you know this is actually working? And how long do
you think you've got on the role before you can say, yeah,
this is actually going somewhere.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
Yeah, that's right. I think you know my performance sport
often decisions are made and then it takes a while
system wise, you know, for those things to eventuate. We've
seen plenty of cases of administration and people making decisions
that have impacted the performance of the team in years
to come. You know, I has it a guess, Darcy.
(36:52):
Last time I spoke to you, I was in charge
of Auretas in Australia, you know, and there's one sport
that is still coming to terms with decisions that were
made decades ago. So we're conscious of the work and
the decisions and system foundational pieces that they don't disrupt
(37:14):
or don't dismantle more like but in hearts so we
are a strong cricket nation from the years too, So.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Need to carry on the success and how nimble new
Zelling cricket has been dealing with things like the T
twenty leagues and the changing of the landscape. So you
need to keep that current. But you need to know
that in the future, whatever you've set up means going
to carry on carrying on. So but sooth say, you're
kind of looking into the future hoping that what you've
learned through your time high performance sport end z and
(37:42):
you know, coaching at a top level, playing rugby to
the top level, that will be able to implement some
of these changes that will bring success.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Absolutely, you've hit it on the head and it is
navigating the complexity which is the changing world of high
per sport. You know, crystal ball, you would never have
thought IPL leagues popping up around the world and the
enormous amounts of money that players make by participating. I
think the fact that New Zealand Cricket have brought a
franchise into the American leagues it just shows you just
(38:13):
how fast things can move, and then how agile you
need to be to be able to adapt quickly to
make sure that your sport remains relevant and that you
have enough investment to invest back into the grassroots of
the game to make sure it's strong. So certainly I'm
looking forward to getting stuck into that, Darcy. It's my
(38:35):
impressions of New Zealand Cricket is an agile, progressive organization
that wants to position itself such that the sport of
Era and New Zealand thrives. I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
In the interview, they would have asked you, not that
I'm privy of this kind of information, Dale Gibson, why
you what can you bring? So stand up and tell
us now, pretending you're interviewing, what makes Darryl Gibson speaking
that other person the ideal man to head high performance
and cricket in z Why are you well?
Speaker 6 (39:06):
I think I'm going to add value, Darcy in a
number of ways. Probably this does sound much an interview
does that. I've got a real genuine empathy for coaching,
having spent fourteen odd years playing that trade.
Speaker 9 (39:20):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
I get what it's like to be a coach, and
I also understand intimately the support that you know, the
high performance person that you report to can give you.
So I'm going to come at up with that, Lis,
I don't want to be coach centric and the fact
that you know, I'm going to be all in Rob
and Ben Sawyer's business in terms of their roles with
(39:44):
the Black Caps and White films, but certainly close enough
to them to really add some value.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
No, DMO, We've got the breakdowns on Sports Talks.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Seven fifty one. Now there is one relaxed high performance manager,
A great talk with Darryl Gibson. Again. We're going to
finish up the show with a few texts at surely
plenty of text traffic around a number of subjects, and
I thank you very much for that. It's news talks,
heb it'd say it away from it. So I'm tensing
(40:23):
with life course, sammywhere I still see you come and
go home to a few texts for you to sample
before we leave. Steve k Ruined super and Club Rugby.
Thank you, Jeremy. Are quite a few people said that,
(40:46):
but nothing to do with Mark Robinson. Someone else says,
maybe David Kirk will take the job. Your's the chair.
I don't think you can do both at the same time.
The CEO of the Warriors, Cameron George, will be the
man to take rugby to the next level of what
he's done with the Warriors. Someone else wants to know
what Steve did for Super Rugby and anything below. Absolutely nothing.
(41:09):
He was entirely focused on the All Blacks. Okay. Someone
else having a crack at Dame Patsy and Mark Robinson.
Thank you for that. I want to know who's going
to take over rights another as silver Lake going to
want to try and get some guy in there from
(41:29):
the States. Du I hope not Hamish. I hope not.
We'll find out. Can't say I'm happy Rights Another maybe
a C minus. But he did a job. Maybe he
tried to go to the wrong track with silver Lake,
but it didn't go completely Uh huh rugby that is
(41:51):
I suppose it's a past Mark, isn't it. I think
women's rugby under his watch has gone reasonably well. Oh
Picky has yet to really kick on though, But it's started,
it started to get in there. As I said, the
resk of Super Rugbies work particularly well overall, a much
(42:12):
friendlier face, a conduit from the rugby union through to
the public. But that that silver lake that'll horn it
for a long time. But we don't We don't know
how that's going to work out. It may turn to
be wonderful. I don't think it will be. I'm still
shakespeare in on it. Charlotte will get his pound of flesh.
(42:34):
Read the Merchant of Venish and what I'm talking about.
And the whole Foster Racer Robertson thing was untidy, untidy,
but he talked to me. It's got to be your bonus,
doesn't it. Hey, Ans Millity, thanks for producing the program,
Thanks all for listening them. Do I see autograph gets
(42:56):
you again tomorrow?
Speaker 6 (42:57):
But oh jud
Speaker 1 (43:00):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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