Grassroots sports clubs around New Zealand are operating with notably fewer volunteer coaches and administrators this year. In the last five years, the average number of volunteers has fallen more than 40 percent.
Amateur Sports Association Chairman Gordon Noble-Campbell joins D'Arcy to discuss why less people are donating time to the country's 7000 community sports clubs, the importance of volunteers to grassroots sports' survival and what strategy the association has to get more people involved.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Let's roll now to Gordon Noble Campbell, the chair of
the New Zealand Amateur Sports Association.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Good evening, Gordon, Jordan, Darcy, thanks for having me as
part of the show this evening.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's great and thanks very much for joining us as
the chair of the New Zealand Amateur Sports Association. Me
all over the fact that things are on the downward spiral?
Where have all the coach has gone? As their headline?
Is this a fact? Are we losing a lot of volunteers,
coaches and people who do the mohy for nothing?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, Darcy, we've just produced a report called Stronger Communities
through Sport and in that report we show the results
of a survey that we've undertaken now for seven years
from twenty eighteen through the twenty twenty four that continues
this year as well. But over the first seven years
of the survey, what we've noticed is a significant decline
(01:05):
in the ever number of people involved with sport clubs
who are willing to contribute at least three hours a
month as a volunteer to help the club in fact,
the number's gone down by about half, so that's a
real concern, and because this study has been going for
so long, it needs to be taken seriously. So we've
(01:26):
kind of identified three causes that are underpinning this. So
the first is that our survey period was both pre
and post COVID, And the first point to note is
that post COVID, I think a lot of people just
didn't come back into the same type of volunteer roles
they might have been doing beforehand, particularly older people. So
there's been a little bit of a drop off on
(01:48):
those individuals who you relied on to get the gold
post pads up on the weekend, or to do some
of the work inside the club, or to help on
the committee, that type of stuff, and it's difficult to
replace them. A lot of younger ones today ask the question, well,
why should I why do it? Y me? Well, the
(02:08):
answer is because if it's not you, then nobody's going
to do it. And if that's the case, then our
clubs are going to get onto life support pretty quickly.
And that leads me to my second point, or the
second cause, is that, as many listeners will know, Darcy,
there's been legislative and regulatory reform in all sorts of
(02:28):
ways over the past few years. One of the big
changes has been with the Incorporated Society's legislation, which requires
all community sport clubs to reconstitute, that is right, a
new constitution, get it registered and then comply with new
obligations going forward in terms of the new law. The
(02:49):
challenge with this is that it's complicated, that people are
not particularly interested in doing this task, and that thirdly
it's not fit to purpose. The laws not fit to purpose.
It creates the same obligations on a local rugby club
the obligations for the New Zealand Rugby Union as a
(03:09):
large organization and business. So it's just not right size
and we want government to do something about that. And
that's the touring people from actually rolling their sleeves up
and getting involved. So here's kind of a few issues
at the moment that are sitting in and around this
decline and volunteer numbers a.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Few, and there are big issues. I'm interested in the
Red tape. Current government talking about unravelling the red tape,
but it sounds like these smaller clubs are being wrapped
and tied up in it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Absolutely, so we've been working with government. In fact, we've
been talking to government now for the best part of
three years, and we're saying a couple of things to them.
The first is people just aren't engaged in undertaking these
major changes to the illegal framework based on a law
(04:01):
change that you've pushed through, and we need a simpler,
more right sized framework or environment for clubs in which
to operate. So the risk is ard with this. If
you don't do the job before April next year, your
community club will be dissolved, not literally but metaphorically, so
(04:22):
it will lose its legal identity. And if that happens
then there's a number of big consequences. One, you can't
apply for grant funding. Two, you can't run a liquor
license at your club. Three you might not be able
to get insurance cover on your premises and property. And
a lot of clubs just aren't aware that this is
going to potentially happen to them. Now. Over the past
(04:45):
three years has been over one thousand that have been
dissolved already by the Registrar, and we've got a real
fear that in April next year we're going to see
what we've been talking to government about as an extinction event,
but like you know, it's not the dinosaurs but an
extinction event, and that many of these organizations will simply
(05:05):
legally cease to exist. Now, why are we concern because
as of last month, out of all the community sport
organizations that are on the Registrar of Incorporated Societies, only
twenty five percent had actually done what's required to stay complied.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
With the whole untaping of it, the whole dealing with this,
and you've got no time to do it, and there's
probably no inclination. Is this being held back by mere effort,
by brain horsepower because people just can't be bothered or
is there a financial issue here as well?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Gordon, Yeah, there is a financial issue. So here's the thing.
All of our community sports people love the game, they
love it, they love to get out there and help,
but they're not necessarily inclined to spend a lot of
time on the legal side of stuff. In the books.
All of the stuff's important, but you need particular knowledge,
(06:01):
confidence and skills around that. And to give the government
some credit, there has been resources that have been made
available through the company's office, but hey, you have to
go and look for it and then understand it and
then get all of your club together to talk about
it before you can actually make a decision to change anything.
(06:21):
And that's a problem, and ask can I just point
out one other thing too. A lot of these clubs
are not just about delivery of sport. They're the real
social hubs in their communities. These are the places that
people go where they feel safe, where they feel welcome,
where they can actually have a good chin wag with
other people who live in their community outside of the home. Hey,
(06:42):
and by the way, you might be able to watch
a game of foot as well on a Saturday. So
there's a big social impact here and that is why
we're been appealing to government to excuse the expression, smell
the coffee, just take a moment to have a look
and see what's happening and then rethink the strategy because
(07:02):
we need to help everybody who is involved in delivering
sport our local communities.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, see your strategy. What are you doing aside all
of the money, the effort, the actual hands on the
ground doing the jobs. What's your strategy in order to
get more people to track them back from the ones
that left after COVID to try and encourage people to
do things even though they're they're time poor and financially stretched.
(07:29):
Have you got a plan? The New Zealand Amateur Sports
Association to pick it up?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
What are you doing well?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
From our point of view, we're doing our best to
create awareness around the types of challenges that are out
there and that to let people know that you're not alone.
What we have been doing is we're in a sporting context.
We're a small organization. We don't get any government funding.
We are actually run by volunteers and all of our
(07:59):
members pay a sub through to us. So we've actually
been banging on the door of sport enz as well
and saying, hey, is a multimillion dollar organization, how is
all that money that is coming in your way? How
is that finding its way down into the grassroots to
help our people who are delivering sport. If we're really
(08:20):
serious about the importance of community sport to our social
well being, we need to unpack everything that's going on
up the tree at head office and get more of
those resources down the ground level at the grassroots. So
that's part of it. The second part is to encourage
people to reflect on the experience and the values they
(08:44):
learn when they were involved in community sport on ten
twenty years ago. If we're talking older people to come back,
and there are lots of little jobs that people can
do that can make a big difference. I mentioned a
bit earlier, you know, putting the goldpost pads on the posts. Hey,
somebody's got to do it. But you know, somebody's got
to be there, unlock the unlock the shed, get the
(09:07):
stuff out, put the ropes up, all that type of stuff.
That's a small job that somebody could do. And if
it keeps you connected and involved with the community, why
not offer to do it. So lots of little ways
to get involved, but it is important to actually, you know,
just pause and reflect and say, hey, I actually got
a lot of value out of being part of that
(09:28):
sport club when I was a youngster, you know, and
I would like to give back a little And that's
really all we can do. But acknowledging that it is
tough at the moment, as I mentioned earlier, for many
families and for many people, you know, the focus is
just more on ensuring that you get by and that
the family stays well and all that type of stuff.
(09:49):
And we appreciate how difficult it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Is, make a difference, do something, stand up, get involved
at that level. The chair of and he's in an
amateur sports association, Gordon Noble Campbell, wishing you the best
in the space that so hope we can all lift
move forward for our mental and physical health and thanks
very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Brilliant as thank you for more from Sports Talk.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Let's roll now to Gordon Noble Campbell, the chair of
the New Zealand Amateur Sports Association.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Good evening, Gordon, Jordan, Darcy, thanks for having me as
part of the show this evening.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's great and thanks very much for joining us as
the chair of the New Zealand Amateur Sports Association. Me
all over the fact that things are on the downward spiral?
Where have all the coach has gone? As their headline?
Is this a fact? Are we losing a lot of volunteers,
coaches and people who do the mohy for nothing?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, Darcy, we've just produced a report called Stronger Communities
through Sport and in that report we show the results
of a survey that we've undertaken now for seven years
from twenty eighteen through the twenty twenty four that continues
this year as well. But over the first seven years
of the survey, what we've noticed is a significant decline
(01:05):
in the ever number of people involved with sport clubs
who are willing to contribute at least three hours a
month as a volunteer to help the club in fact,
the number's gone down by about half, so that's a
real concern, and because this study has been going for
so long, it needs to be taken seriously. So we've
(01:26):
kind of identified three causes that are underpinning this. So
the first is that our survey period was both pre
and post COVID, And the first point to note is
that post COVID, I think a lot of people just
didn't come back into the same type of volunteer roles
they might have been doing beforehand, particularly older people. So
there's been a little bit of a drop off on
(01:48):
those individuals who you relied on to get the gold
post pads up on the weekend, or to do some
of the work inside the club, or to help on
the committee, that type of stuff, and it's difficult to
replace them. A lot of younger ones today ask the question, well,
why should I why do it? Y me? Well, the
(02:08):
answer is because if it's not you, then nobody's going
to do it. And if that's the case, then our
clubs are going to get onto life support pretty quickly.
And that leads me to my second point, or the
second cause, is that, as many listeners will know, Darcy,
there's been legislative and regulatory reform in all sorts of
(02:28):
ways over the past few years. One of the big
changes has been with the Incorporated Society's legislation, which requires
all community sport clubs to reconstitute, that is right, a
new constitution, get it registered and then comply with new
obligations going forward in terms of the new law. The
(02:49):
challenge with this is that it's complicated, that people are
not particularly interested in doing this task, and that thirdly
it's not fit to purpose. The laws not fit to purpose.
It creates the same obligations on a local rugby club
the obligations for the New Zealand Rugby Union as a
(03:09):
large organization and business. So it's just not right size
and we want government to do something about that. And
that's the touring people from actually rolling their sleeves up
and getting involved. So here's kind of a few issues
at the moment that are sitting in and around this
decline and volunteer numbers a.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Few, and there are big issues. I'm interested in the
Red tape. Current government talking about unravelling the red tape,
but it sounds like these smaller clubs are being wrapped
and tied up in it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Absolutely, so we've been working with government. In fact, we've
been talking to government now for the best part of
three years, and we're saying a couple of things to them.
The first is people just aren't engaged in undertaking these
major changes to the illegal framework based on a law
(04:01):
change that you've pushed through, and we need a simpler,
more right sized framework or environment for clubs in which
to operate. So the risk is ard with this. If
you don't do the job before April next year, your
community club will be dissolved, not literally but metaphorically, so
(04:22):
it will lose its legal identity. And if that happens
then there's a number of big consequences. One, you can't
apply for grant funding. Two, you can't run a liquor
license at your club. Three you might not be able
to get insurance cover on your premises and property. And
a lot of clubs just aren't aware that this is
going to potentially happen to them. Now. Over the past
(04:45):
three years has been over one thousand that have been
dissolved already by the Registrar, and we've got a real
fear that in April next year we're going to see
what we've been talking to government about as an extinction event,
but like you know, it's not the dinosaurs but an
extinction event, and that many of these organizations will simply
(05:05):
legally cease to exist. Now, why are we concern because
as of last month, out of all the community sport
organizations that are on the Registrar of Incorporated Societies, only
twenty five percent had actually done what's required to stay complied.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
With the whole untaping of it, the whole dealing with this,
and you've got no time to do it, and there's
probably no inclination. Is this being held back by mere effort,
by brain horsepower because people just can't be bothered or
is there a financial issue here as well?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Gordon, Yeah, there is a financial issue. So here's the thing.
All of our community sports people love the game, they
love it, they love to get out there and help,
but they're not necessarily inclined to spend a lot of
time on the legal side of stuff. In the books.
All of the stuff's important, but you need particular knowledge,
(06:01):
confidence and skills around that. And to give the government
some credit, there has been resources that have been made
available through the company's office, but hey, you have to
go and look for it and then understand it and
then get all of your club together to talk about
it before you can actually make a decision to change anything.
(06:21):
And that's a problem, and ask can I just point
out one other thing too. A lot of these clubs
are not just about delivery of sport. They're the real
social hubs in their communities. These are the places that
people go where they feel safe, where they feel welcome,
where they can actually have a good chin wag with
other people who live in their community outside of the home. Hey,
(06:42):
and by the way, you might be able to watch
a game of foot as well on a Saturday. So
there's a big social impact here and that is why
we're been appealing to government to excuse the expression, smell
the coffee, just take a moment to have a look
and see what's happening and then rethink the strategy because
(07:02):
we need to help everybody who is involved in delivering
sport our local communities.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, see your strategy. What are you doing aside all
of the money, the effort, the actual hands on the
ground doing the jobs. What's your strategy in order to
get more people to track them back from the ones
that left after COVID to try and encourage people to
do things even though they're they're time poor and financially stretched.
(07:29):
Have you got a plan? The New Zealand Amateur Sports
Association to pick it up?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
What are you doing well?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
From our point of view, we're doing our best to
create awareness around the types of challenges that are out
there and that to let people know that you're not alone.
What we have been doing is we're in a sporting context.
We're a small organization. We don't get any government funding.
We are actually run by volunteers and all of our
(07:59):
members pay a sub through to us. So we've actually
been banging on the door of sport enz as well
and saying, hey, is a multimillion dollar organization, how is
all that money that is coming in your way? How
is that finding its way down into the grassroots to
help our people who are delivering sport. If we're really
(08:20):
serious about the importance of community sport to our social
well being, we need to unpack everything that's going on
up the tree at head office and get more of
those resources down the ground level at the grassroots. So
that's part of it. The second part is to encourage
people to reflect on the experience and the values they
(08:44):
learn when they were involved in community sport on ten
twenty years ago. If we're talking older people to come back,
and there are lots of little jobs that people can
do that can make a big difference. I mentioned a
bit earlier, you know, putting the goldpost pads on the posts. Hey,
somebody's got to do it. But you know, somebody's got
to be there, unlock the unlock the shed, get the
(09:07):
stuff out, put the ropes up, all that type of stuff.
That's a small job that somebody could do. And if
it keeps you connected and involved with the community, why
not offer to do it. So lots of little ways
to get involved, but it is important to actually, you know,
just pause and reflect and say, hey, I actually got
a lot of value out of being part of that
(09:28):
sport club when I was a youngster, you know, and
I would like to give back a little And that's
really all we can do. But acknowledging that it is
tough at the moment, as I mentioned earlier, for many
families and for many people, you know, the focus is
just more on ensuring that you get by and that
the family stays well and all that type of stuff.
(09:49):
And we appreciate how difficult it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Is, make a difference, do something, stand up, get involved
at that level. The chair of and he's in an
amateur sports association, Gordon Noble Campbell, wishing you the best
in the space that so hope we can all lift
move forward for our mental and physical health and thanks
very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Brilliant as thank you for more from Sports Talk.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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