New Zealand's premier domestic women's competition is brining in a trans-Tasman twist this season.
The Super Rugby Aupiki champion will play a post-season match against the winner of the Australian women's competition.
New Zealand Rugby head of women's high performance Hannah Porter spoke to D'Arcy Waldegrave on Sportstalk.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We join now by New Zealand and Rugby's head of
women's High Performance, Hannah Porter. Hello to you, hon, Do
I trust you well?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm very well. Thank you Darcy? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Good? Big day a champions Final. This is the
headline Champion Final headlines the twenty twenty five sky At
Rugby O Picky draw announced with the draw is out
but there is a cherry on the top. This is
exciting stuff. How does this all finish? Where's this heading? Hannah?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, really exciting and look, it's taken a while to
get to this point. It's the first year that Super
robw and Super Rugby Opicky will align their dates with
each other, so that's the first step, and this is
how we've got to the championship match at the end,
which is really exciting and I know the clubs are
really looking forward to taking part in the first ever
(01:00):
Championship final. But certainly our intention that these two competitions
keep growing together and there's further alignment in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
When you say in the future, there's mentioned in the
release that possibly it becomes a competition, a unit. It
all runs to the same drum. Is that the thought
process behind us?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, Look, there's still a lot of work to get
to that point, but Rugby Australia and New Zealand Rugby
are working really closely in what would be the best
thing for the competition and we both know that providing
a longer competition for our women's players and a really
meaningful competition OPRAH Key and Super Rugby Super w is
(01:41):
from a performance point of view really important to get
players ready for international level, but not only that, engage
with the fans and provide a meaningful rugby competition and
domestically so lots of benefits for these competitions to grow,
really open communication around what that could look like in
the future, and knowing that we want these competitions to
(02:05):
run for longer periods of time.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's a growth area in sport, in rugby, in women's sport,
is rugby union that is the way forward. And you
guys appear to be running ahead of the curve by design.
You've really been active in the space, haven't you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I don't know if we're leading the space. The
Northern Hemisphere have probably been at it a little bit
longer than what we have. But I think what we
are doing is we're listening to sent me what the
athletes want and what the fans want, which is growing
in this domestic space. So look, I would hope to
(02:46):
think in the next couple of years where we've got
a product that's it's really cool to watch, but not
only that, it provides a really good performance opportunity for
our athletes.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's also very important to have aspirations and inspirations for
young athletes coming through. They have to be up there,
don't They are these players. So there are young girls, Hey,
I'm six years old, I want to play this game
because look at them. I mean that's a massive part
of what you're doing, surely, Hannah.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think playing domestically, I think having
it at times where everyone can watch it and engage
with it is really important. Not certainly not all of
our international games have played at friendly times for younger watchers.
So being able to put that domestic product up at
primetime TV for everyone to be able to engage with
(03:33):
it is really important. In this competition, along with FPCR
allows us to do that so that people that are
really interested in it have the chance to actually view
it and take part.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Would have been your biggest challenges around promoting the game
and pushing Opicky foard the way you have over the
last three or four years.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Look, challenges, opportunities. Rugby's a little bit of a slow
moving beast. Sometimes there's lots of people to consider and
lots of opinions to consider as what the best way
forward is. So I think we're getting there. We definitely
want to keep showing progression and I think this championship
game does that. But we do actually just want to
(04:14):
keep progressing the game. We know how important having this
domestic product is for our females, so we do want
to keep growing that out and getting it to a
point where it looked potentially it's it's a longer period
in the next couple of years or in the future anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, we know all about want though, But what's slowing
that down? Is there an interest from the public as
a sponsor money behind it? Is there anything particularly holding
you back that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
No, there's nothing holding us back. I think what's playing
out in the background is also the woman's global calendar.
We've not had a global calendar for the woman's game before.
So as of twenty twenty six, you will see two
distinct windows where in the front end of the year
there will be internationals and that they will be regionally based.
So what that means in New Zealand is packed for
will we played in the front end of the year
(05:02):
and then a global calendar will sit in September October,
and so that really what that piece of work, and
it's been a big piece of work and it's taken
two years to get there, is to really solidify what
those windows international windows are, so when you're creating domestic competitions,
you can sit outside of those windows to make sure
that all of your best players can actually be plating
(05:23):
domestic rugby. So that will come into play in twenty
twenty six. And now that we know that that that
calendar is in place, it becomes a lot easier to
put our domestic products in place. But it has taken,
as I said, it has taken two years to get
to that point. So really excited about what the future
looks like from both international game and the domestic game.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It's pretty quick, all things said and done. When you
look at the glacial pace world rugby works out In general,
we're joined by the zell On Rugby's head of women's
high Performance, Hannah Porter. You're ahead of the curve when
it comes to the blokes game, no, aren't you. As
far as an international program and schedules concern, that's going
to take forever to walk out. It seems to me
(06:05):
that women's is a lot more nimble. Is it a
fair thing to say?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, we're also a lot younger, So I think there's
obviously a few things to unpack in the men's game
that as soon as the game turned professional, if those
kind of stepping stones were in place, it all becomes
a little bit harder to unpack when you've got private
investors in the game. So we certainly in that case,
(06:32):
I think we're pretty lucky that we have got to
this point where actually all the nations have worked together
really well to get to international windows, which essentially means
any female could play anywhere across the world in their
domestic game, and if their laws allowed, it would allow
them to go back and play international rugby as well.
(06:54):
So that's a real positive. I think when you look
at women's rugby at the moment, there's not the opportunity
at the end of your career to go and live
life in southern France on a not a bad look
at as there is in the men's game. So again,
providing opportunities for our ladies as they're playing throughout their
careers that could be in another domestic competition around the world,
(07:18):
I think is really important.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And is this all bearing fruit when you look across
the development of the women's game where it's come in
the last more recently the last ten to fifteen years
since it all started off. Is this proving to everybody
that this is a way forward? Are you getting more
people playing the game, are getting more advertisers interested? What
do you look at? I hate the old phrase key
(07:40):
performance indicators, but I will use it. How do you
know this is working? And does that matter? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It does matter. So probably the two things you would
look at as registration numbers. And we've had some really
great growth in the women's game and our registration numbers
this year and not just not just at junior levels
but also at senior women's club roby, which is really important.
We still need more players playing the game in New Zealand,
so that's really positive. And I think commercially there's still
(08:10):
a little bit of work to be done in that space.
We still need to engage with our fans, we need
to engage with our commercial partners. And that'll be the
true success when we can start generating revenue and putting
that pack into the game. And obviously that would just
grow the development system and the system underneath it and
the community rugby game as that money flows down.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, you've been, as I said, laid into it. Men's
rugby has been around for a long time. Have you
guys got a target as far as when you want
this game to stand on its own two feet financially
and be worth it. You can't expect to achieve that
in the first couple of years. How much rope have
you guys got?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, something that we're working with ends at our commercial
on getting a really clear strategic plan around when we
think that date would be. But you're right, it is
going to take time to grow that out and it
is I think you'll see across the world across women's
sport at the moment, the likes of football and basketball
that a couple of years ahead of us. And finally,
(09:10):
I suppose getting bums on seats to watch games and
being commercially viable for the clubs that are running the sport.
So something that we're currently working through and look forward
to having that strategic plan done in a dream world.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
What would you like to see happening in women's rugby
in the next year or so? What needs to happen
from a financial basis, from a participation basis. What do
you really want, Hannah, I'd.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Love to win another World Cup next year? Can I
be as simple as that? No, Look, I think the
continued growth. I think Super Rugby opek is going to
be really excited. I look forward to the Black Ferns
going into England and having a real good crack at
that Rugby World Cup. That's going to be a tough
one to win on English home soil. I look forward
to the Sevens getting back into competition in the next
(10:03):
couple of weeks, and community rugby is still pushing ahead
with some strong numbers in the community game.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Just going back to the community engagement, what's the biggest
issue around getting people playing the game in the women's game?
What's the roadblock there?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I don't think there's actually initial getting people to play
the game. We've got amazing junior numbers. The drop off
for us, and I think it's similar in the men's
game is in and around that secondary school participation. So
a lot of our rugby for our junior girls at
junior club rugby is the non contact version, ripper rugby.
So it's how do we keep bringing ripper through. So
(10:39):
there's a version of non contact rugby for those that
want to stay in the non contact version, but how
do we actually get a few more transitioning to playing
tackle rugby and whether that be semons or fifteen's an
area of a focus area that we've got for next year.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
there'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We join now by New Zealand and Rugby's head of
women's High Performance, Hannah Porter. Hello to you, hon, Do
I trust you well?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm very well. Thank you Darcy? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Good? Big day a champions Final. This is the
headline Champion Final headlines the twenty twenty five sky At
Rugby O Picky draw announced with the draw is out
but there is a cherry on the top. This is
exciting stuff. How does this all finish? Where's this heading? Hannah?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, really exciting and look, it's taken a while to
get to this point. It's the first year that Super
robw and Super Rugby Opicky will align their dates with
each other, so that's the first step, and this is
how we've got to the championship match at the end,
which is really exciting and I know the clubs are
really looking forward to taking part in the first ever
(01:00):
Championship final. But certainly our intention that these two competitions
keep growing together and there's further alignment in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
When you say in the future, there's mentioned in the
release that possibly it becomes a competition, a unit. It
all runs to the same drum. Is that the thought
process behind us?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, Look, there's still a lot of work to get
to that point, but Rugby Australia and New Zealand Rugby
are working really closely in what would be the best
thing for the competition and we both know that providing
a longer competition for our women's players and a really
meaningful competition OPRAH Key and Super Rugby Super w is
(01:41):
from a performance point of view really important to get
players ready for international level, but not only that, engage
with the fans and provide a meaningful rugby competition and
domestically so lots of benefits for these competitions to grow,
really open communication around what that could look like in
the future, and knowing that we want these competitions to
(02:05):
run for longer periods of time.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's a growth area in sport, in rugby, in women's sport,
is rugby union that is the way forward. And you
guys appear to be running ahead of the curve by design.
You've really been active in the space, haven't you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I don't know if we're leading the space. The
Northern Hemisphere have probably been at it a little bit
longer than what we have. But I think what we
are doing is we're listening to sent me what the
athletes want and what the fans want, which is growing
in this domestic space. So look, I would hope to
(02:46):
think in the next couple of years where we've got
a product that's it's really cool to watch, but not
only that, it provides a really good performance opportunity for
our athletes.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's also very important to have aspirations and inspirations for
young athletes coming through. They have to be up there,
don't They are these players. So there are young girls, Hey,
I'm six years old, I want to play this game
because look at them. I mean that's a massive part
of what you're doing, surely, Hannah.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think playing domestically, I think having
it at times where everyone can watch it and engage
with it is really important. Not certainly not all of
our international games have played at friendly times for younger watchers.
So being able to put that domestic product up at
primetime TV for everyone to be able to engage with
(03:33):
it is really important. In this competition, along with FPCR
allows us to do that so that people that are
really interested in it have the chance to actually view
it and take part.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Would have been your biggest challenges around promoting the game
and pushing Opicky foard the way you have over the
last three or four years.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Look, challenges, opportunities. Rugby's a little bit of a slow
moving beast. Sometimes there's lots of people to consider and
lots of opinions to consider as what the best way
forward is. So I think we're getting there. We definitely
want to keep showing progression and I think this championship
game does that. But we do actually just want to
(04:14):
keep progressing the game. We know how important having this
domestic product is for our females, so we do want
to keep growing that out and getting it to a
point where it looked potentially it's it's a longer period
in the next couple of years or in the future anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, we know all about want though, But what's slowing
that down? Is there an interest from the public as
a sponsor money behind it? Is there anything particularly holding
you back that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
No, there's nothing holding us back. I think what's playing
out in the background is also the woman's global calendar.
We've not had a global calendar for the woman's game before.
So as of twenty twenty six, you will see two
distinct windows where in the front end of the year
there will be internationals and that they will be regionally based.
So what that means in New Zealand is packed for
will we played in the front end of the year
(05:02):
and then a global calendar will sit in September October,
and so that really what that piece of work, and
it's been a big piece of work and it's taken
two years to get there, is to really solidify what
those windows international windows are, so when you're creating domestic competitions,
you can sit outside of those windows to make sure
that all of your best players can actually be plating
(05:23):
domestic rugby. So that will come into play in twenty
twenty six. And now that we know that that that
calendar is in place, it becomes a lot easier to
put our domestic products in place. But it has taken,
as I said, it has taken two years to get
to that point. So really excited about what the future
looks like from both international game and the domestic game.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It's pretty quick, all things said and done. When you
look at the glacial pace world rugby works out In general,
we're joined by the zell On Rugby's head of women's
high Performance, Hannah Porter. You're ahead of the curve when
it comes to the blokes game, no, aren't you. As
far as an international program and schedules concern, that's going
to take forever to walk out. It seems to me
(06:05):
that women's is a lot more nimble. Is it a
fair thing to say?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, we're also a lot younger, So I think there's
obviously a few things to unpack in the men's game
that as soon as the game turned professional, if those
kind of stepping stones were in place, it all becomes
a little bit harder to unpack when you've got private
investors in the game. So we certainly in that case,
(06:32):
I think we're pretty lucky that we have got to
this point where actually all the nations have worked together
really well to get to international windows, which essentially means
any female could play anywhere across the world in their
domestic game, and if their laws allowed, it would allow
them to go back and play international rugby as well.
(06:54):
So that's a real positive. I think when you look
at women's rugby at the moment, there's not the opportunity
at the end of your career to go and live
life in southern France on a not a bad look
at as there is in the men's game. So again,
providing opportunities for our ladies as they're playing throughout their
careers that could be in another domestic competition around the world,
(07:18):
I think is really important.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And is this all bearing fruit when you look across
the development of the women's game where it's come in
the last more recently the last ten to fifteen years
since it all started off. Is this proving to everybody
that this is a way forward? Are you getting more
people playing the game, are getting more advertisers interested? What
do you look at? I hate the old phrase key
(07:40):
performance indicators, but I will use it. How do you
know this is working? And does that matter? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It does matter. So probably the two things you would
look at as registration numbers. And we've had some really
great growth in the women's game and our registration numbers
this year and not just not just at junior levels
but also at senior women's club roby, which is really important.
We still need more players playing the game in New Zealand,
so that's really positive. And I think commercially there's still
(08:10):
a little bit of work to be done in that space.
We still need to engage with our fans, we need
to engage with our commercial partners. And that'll be the
true success when we can start generating revenue and putting
that pack into the game. And obviously that would just
grow the development system and the system underneath it and
the community rugby game as that money flows down.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, you've been, as I said, laid into it. Men's
rugby has been around for a long time. Have you
guys got a target as far as when you want
this game to stand on its own two feet financially
and be worth it. You can't expect to achieve that
in the first couple of years. How much rope have
you guys got?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, something that we're working with ends at our commercial
on getting a really clear strategic plan around when we
think that date would be. But you're right, it is
going to take time to grow that out and it
is I think you'll see across the world across women's
sport at the moment, the likes of football and basketball
that a couple of years ahead of us. And finally,
(09:10):
I suppose getting bums on seats to watch games and
being commercially viable for the clubs that are running the sport.
So something that we're currently working through and look forward
to having that strategic plan done in a dream world.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
What would you like to see happening in women's rugby
in the next year or so? What needs to happen
from a financial basis, from a participation basis. What do
you really want, Hannah, I'd.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Love to win another World Cup next year? Can I
be as simple as that? No, Look, I think the
continued growth. I think Super Rugby opek is going to
be really excited. I look forward to the Black Ferns
going into England and having a real good crack at
that Rugby World Cup. That's going to be a tough
one to win on English home soil. I look forward
to the Sevens getting back into competition in the next
(10:03):
couple of weeks, and community rugby is still pushing ahead
with some strong numbers in the community game.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Just going back to the community engagement, what's the biggest
issue around getting people playing the game in the women's game?
What's the roadblock there?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I don't think there's actually initial getting people to play
the game. We've got amazing junior numbers. The drop off
for us, and I think it's similar in the men's
game is in and around that secondary school participation. So
a lot of our rugby for our junior girls at
junior club rugby is the non contact version, ripper rugby.
So it's how do we keep bringing ripper through. So
(10:39):
there's a version of non contact rugby for those that
want to stay in the non contact version, but how
do we actually get a few more transitioning to playing
tackle rugby and whether that be semons or fifteen's an
area of a focus area that we've got for next year.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
there'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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