August 20, 2024 • 10 mins
Former Team New Zealand Director Jim Farmer joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss why 'Kiwis' have tuned out of the Americas Cup.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB, and it's a.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Warm welcome to Jim Farmer KAC, former team director of
AT teen New Zealand, as we look toward the start
of the America's Cup coming up later on the week.
It's been a long time at Jim, but here it comes.
The action starts. Welcome to the program. I suppose, first up,
how dial don't they to this America's Cup considering what
(00:33):
it's gone through over the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I'm not dialing at all. I won't be watching it.
And I think that's true of a lot of people
who have remained dismayed by the fact that the Cup
has been taken offshore.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You say a lot of people this is in your
friend group, other sailors.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And all of those certainly people in my group for community,
people I know who in the past have traveled overseas
when Team New Zealand was a challenger to places like
Valencia and so on, San Francisco. They are not interested
in going to Barcelona to watch us defend the Cup there.
(01:16):
And it's true also of sailors that I know, and
I am in the sailing world. I have my own
recent yot.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's a disconnect between Emert's team New Zealand and the fans,
or Grant Dalton and the fans, or the America's Cup
and the fans. Where do you think the schism is.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I think, as far as New Zealand is a concerned,
they feel let down. They've supported New Zealand's attempts to
get the America's Cup from the very beginning nineteen eighty
seven in Perth. They've supported it when it's been one,
when it's been held here, and they expected it to
be held here, when when it continued to be held here, That,
(01:56):
after all, was the whole point of putting money into
challenging for the Cup. So I think they do feel
very very let down and don't accept that it could
not have been credibly held here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's one of the basic tenants, isn't it of the
America's Cup? You winn't you defend it at home? This
is kind of screams of America's Cup to me, So
it really flies in the face of a lot of
what this Cup's about.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yes, that's that's exactly right. And because the defender defending
yacht club has the right and to hold the cup
in their in their home waters, and that's always nearly
always how it's.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Been with the fan treatment, it feels like lack of
respect to the fan base out there, from specifically Grant
Dalton and the people managing it. They appear to be
more interested in funding the defense, but not for the
reasons we think, because it's not coming back. Do you
(02:53):
feel if they do whin they'll ever bring it back,
because I don't think they will.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I don't think so. I think it'll be sold off
to the highest bidder. And some while ago I heard
an interview by Grant Olt in which he talked about
the advantages of taking it to Sautaudi Arabia, where they
did have a preliminary regatta, and how wonderful a place
it was. I don't know whether he would have while
(03:18):
he was there, visited the public executions, visited the public
executions that take place regularly in Saudi, but I think
I would predict that that's probably where it's going to
go next.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Jim I heard exactly the same interview and flabbergacid that
already is like wow, if we win, feeling confident, Definitely
not coming home. It wasn't a shock or a slap
in the face. It was kind of predictable. But it
summarizes what's going on. So you take that intoc count.
Do you think people will forgive Grant Dalton for taking
(03:52):
something that essentially New Zealanders feel very engaged and we
feel like it's ours after all the other campaigns and
it's been whipped away from us. Forgiveness is an interesting concept,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, it is, and it goes us back to the
Peter Blake days and everyone wore red sox to help
out at a time when the team then was sort
of short of money, and it's sort of the whole
country got behind that and has been behind it until
now it no longer is by it now. It's interesting
(04:25):
that Toyota's going to announce a tour of New Zealand
taking the Cup around and I think that probably signifies
a recognition that the New Zealand public is no longer
supporting Team New Zealand's effort in defending the Cup.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It almost feels Jim Farmer to be a desperate move
to try and engage New Zealanders by a tour, And
what is a magnificent piece of silverware around the country
to kind of curry some favor. Do you think people
will buy it that?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I think a lot of people will be curious to
see the cup, and they will visit wherever that is
being displayed. You know, I'm sure that will be the case,
but not to the extent that it would otherwise have been.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
What about damage to the event? In the name of
the America's Cup? Does this do much? Is this a
bit of a shape? Does it wiggle the needle as
far as respect is concerned for it as a holes
it has been so popular, so having it been taken
away and being rarely about money predominantly, so they can
defend it, but it won't come back. Is that damaging
(05:27):
do you think?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think the I think the event has been damaged.
Part of the evidence for that is the popularity of
the sale GP, which is event which is now almost
seen as something that's alternative to the America's Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Is sailing still at that level still relatable to New Zealanders.
There be a lot of New Zealanders out there who
haven't sailed or don't know, But there's also a huge
amount of people that sailing is a massive part of
their life. But with this disconnect we speak of, is
it still relatable to the New Zealand the New Zealand population.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think that question needs to be answered in two ways.
That there are a lot of people who are very
impressed by the technology, the foiling technology and the speed
that the boats get up to. With that, there are
other people, more what I would call the traditional sailing community,
(06:29):
who are less interested in that and who really can't
relate to that because the boats that they do their
club racing and so on are not that kind of
boat and they're never going to be able to have
that kind of boat. So I think it's sort of
a it's a bit of a double edged sword really, So.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
As far as important for sailing in New Zealand, for
getting people at a grassroots that it will be involved
and maybe climb up through, it is quite detached because
it's such a an elite part of what has already
perceived as an elite sports gym.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yes, that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The needle won't move with the winning of a cup,
but once it starts and related on what you were saying,
then I know I fall into this camp because I
love the technology and the rating. Will this suddenly jump
into life when the America's Cup is being defended again?
Will people conveniently forget their issues once it's going and go, wow,
(07:25):
look at that. We'll buy on it. And maybe that's
what people are asking for. But it's on the other
side of the world in the middle of the night,
so that might not work either. Will the event itself
when it's happening actually spark some interest.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will sparks in
New Zealanders love sport, sport of all kinds. But as
you say, it is in the middle of the night before,
whether the people are willing to get up at two
o'clock in the morning. They do that to watch the
All Blacks players spring box in South Africa, but whether
they'll do it to watch this event? So will, but
I think most won't.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And they're Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. How comfortable do
you think they are at the moment because that it's
under their name. But I just wonder how they're feeling
about what the general feeling is around this America's Cup.
Plainly they're keen to be involved and they're very proud
of it, but again they don't really have any control
over it. Do that and we've seen that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, they don't, and I think it's a good question
to ask the large number of Royal and the Squadron
members who've left who not continued their membership with the
Squadron because of what has actually happened. Can't recall the figures,
but it has been a very substantial drop off and
membership of the Squadron, which has caused financial difficulties with
(08:41):
it or for it. The Squadron's position, the leaders of
the Squadron, their position has been that they have a
contract with Team New Zealand. The Team New Zealand has
the obligation and the right to manage the defense of
the Cup. There's a real issue as to whether that
extends to choosing the venue for the Cup, and I
(09:02):
personally think as a matter of law it doesn't. But
the Squadron have taken a different view and under under
pressure from from Teavy gentlemen from Grant Dalton in particular.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Uncomfortable alliance. But it feels like they probably can't do
anything else. They have to go hand in hand, whether
they like it or not. Such as the power that
grant wields.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, that's what they say. The fact of the matter
is that it would have been it would have been
able to be managed financially here with the money private
money that was being offered by others. But you know,
whether it was enough money or the desired amount of
money is perhaps another question.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Jim Farmer obviously can't speak for the government, but I
wonder how they're feeling right now about their ninety nine
million dollars not being accepted. Do you think and rechispect
that it's not a bad move for us not to
be engaged.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, I mean, really that was that was a pretty
generous offer and I think coupled with as I say,
at least a minimum of forty million that was offered
from private sources and plus whatever the support that the
Auckland Council would be continuing to give, all being done
in the cause of having the cup here to attract
(10:18):
foreign tourists and boats and so on who would all
come here, which is now now not happening.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Jim Farmer, k C, former board member of our Director
of Team New Zealand, do you think it's ever going
to come back here again? Do you think we'll ever
see an America's Cup regatta on our waters?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Personally, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB, and it's a.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Warm welcome to Jim Farmer KAC, former team director of
AT teen New Zealand, as we look toward the start
of the America's Cup coming up later on the week.
It's been a long time at Jim, but here it comes.
The action starts. Welcome to the program. I suppose, first up,
how dial don't they to this America's Cup considering what
(00:33):
it's gone through over the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I'm not dialing at all. I won't be watching it.
And I think that's true of a lot of people
who have remained dismayed by the fact that the Cup
has been taken offshore.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You say a lot of people this is in your
friend group, other sailors.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And all of those certainly people in my group for community,
people I know who in the past have traveled overseas
when Team New Zealand was a challenger to places like
Valencia and so on, San Francisco. They are not interested
in going to Barcelona to watch us defend the Cup there.
(01:16):
And it's true also of sailors that I know, and
I am in the sailing world. I have my own
recent yot.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's a disconnect between Emert's team New Zealand and the fans,
or Grant Dalton and the fans, or the America's Cup
and the fans. Where do you think the schism is.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I think, as far as New Zealand is a concerned,
they feel let down. They've supported New Zealand's attempts to
get the America's Cup from the very beginning nineteen eighty
seven in Perth. They've supported it when it's been one,
when it's been held here, and they expected it to
be held here, when when it continued to be held here, That,
(01:56):
after all, was the whole point of putting money into
challenging for the Cup. So I think they do feel
very very let down and don't accept that it could
not have been credibly held here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's one of the basic tenants, isn't it of the
America's Cup? You winn't you defend it at home? This
is kind of screams of America's Cup to me, So
it really flies in the face of a lot of
what this Cup's about.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yes, that's that's exactly right. And because the defender defending
yacht club has the right and to hold the cup
in their in their home waters, and that's always nearly
always how it's.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Been with the fan treatment, it feels like lack of
respect to the fan base out there, from specifically Grant
Dalton and the people managing it. They appear to be
more interested in funding the defense, but not for the
reasons we think, because it's not coming back. Do you
(02:53):
feel if they do whin they'll ever bring it back,
because I don't think they will.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I don't think so. I think it'll be sold off
to the highest bidder. And some while ago I heard
an interview by Grant Olt in which he talked about
the advantages of taking it to Sautaudi Arabia, where they
did have a preliminary regatta, and how wonderful a place
it was. I don't know whether he would have while
(03:18):
he was there, visited the public executions, visited the public
executions that take place regularly in Saudi, but I think
I would predict that that's probably where it's going to
go next.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Jim I heard exactly the same interview and flabbergacid that
already is like wow, if we win, feeling confident, Definitely
not coming home. It wasn't a shock or a slap
in the face. It was kind of predictable. But it
summarizes what's going on. So you take that intoc count.
Do you think people will forgive Grant Dalton for taking
(03:52):
something that essentially New Zealanders feel very engaged and we
feel like it's ours after all the other campaigns and
it's been whipped away from us. Forgiveness is an interesting concept,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, it is, and it goes us back to the
Peter Blake days and everyone wore red sox to help
out at a time when the team then was sort
of short of money, and it's sort of the whole
country got behind that and has been behind it until
now it no longer is by it now. It's interesting
(04:25):
that Toyota's going to announce a tour of New Zealand
taking the Cup around and I think that probably signifies
a recognition that the New Zealand public is no longer
supporting Team New Zealand's effort in defending the Cup.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It almost feels Jim Farmer to be a desperate move
to try and engage New Zealanders by a tour, And
what is a magnificent piece of silverware around the country
to kind of curry some favor. Do you think people
will buy it that?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I think a lot of people will be curious to
see the cup, and they will visit wherever that is
being displayed. You know, I'm sure that will be the case,
but not to the extent that it would otherwise have been.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
What about damage to the event? In the name of
the America's Cup? Does this do much? Is this a
bit of a shape? Does it wiggle the needle as
far as respect is concerned for it as a holes
it has been so popular, so having it been taken
away and being rarely about money predominantly, so they can
defend it, but it won't come back. Is that damaging
(05:27):
do you think?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think the I think the event has been damaged.
Part of the evidence for that is the popularity of
the sale GP, which is event which is now almost
seen as something that's alternative to the America's Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Is sailing still at that level still relatable to New Zealanders.
There be a lot of New Zealanders out there who
haven't sailed or don't know, But there's also a huge
amount of people that sailing is a massive part of
their life. But with this disconnect we speak of, is
it still relatable to the New Zealand the New Zealand population.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think that question needs to be answered in two ways.
That there are a lot of people who are very
impressed by the technology, the foiling technology and the speed
that the boats get up to. With that, there are
other people, more what I would call the traditional sailing community,
(06:29):
who are less interested in that and who really can't
relate to that because the boats that they do their
club racing and so on are not that kind of
boat and they're never going to be able to have
that kind of boat. So I think it's sort of
a it's a bit of a double edged sword really, So.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
As far as important for sailing in New Zealand, for
getting people at a grassroots that it will be involved
and maybe climb up through, it is quite detached because
it's such a an elite part of what has already
perceived as an elite sports gym.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yes, that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The needle won't move with the winning of a cup,
but once it starts and related on what you were saying,
then I know I fall into this camp because I
love the technology and the rating. Will this suddenly jump
into life when the America's Cup is being defended again?
Will people conveniently forget their issues once it's going and go, wow,
(07:25):
look at that. We'll buy on it. And maybe that's
what people are asking for. But it's on the other
side of the world in the middle of the night,
so that might not work either. Will the event itself
when it's happening actually spark some interest.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will sparks in
New Zealanders love sport, sport of all kinds. But as
you say, it is in the middle of the night before,
whether the people are willing to get up at two
o'clock in the morning. They do that to watch the
All Blacks players spring box in South Africa, but whether
they'll do it to watch this event? So will, but
I think most won't.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And they're Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. How comfortable do
you think they are at the moment because that it's
under their name. But I just wonder how they're feeling
about what the general feeling is around this America's Cup.
Plainly they're keen to be involved and they're very proud
of it, but again they don't really have any control
over it. Do that and we've seen that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, they don't, and I think it's a good question
to ask the large number of Royal and the Squadron
members who've left who not continued their membership with the
Squadron because of what has actually happened. Can't recall the figures,
but it has been a very substantial drop off and
membership of the Squadron, which has caused financial difficulties with
(08:41):
it or for it. The Squadron's position, the leaders of
the Squadron, their position has been that they have a
contract with Team New Zealand. The Team New Zealand has
the obligation and the right to manage the defense of
the Cup. There's a real issue as to whether that
extends to choosing the venue for the Cup, and I
(09:02):
personally think as a matter of law it doesn't. But
the Squadron have taken a different view and under under
pressure from from Teavy gentlemen from Grant Dalton in particular.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Uncomfortable alliance. But it feels like they probably can't do
anything else. They have to go hand in hand, whether
they like it or not. Such as the power that
grant wields.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, that's what they say. The fact of the matter
is that it would have been it would have been
able to be managed financially here with the money private
money that was being offered by others. But you know,
whether it was enough money or the desired amount of
money is perhaps another question.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Jim Farmer obviously can't speak for the government, but I
wonder how they're feeling right now about their ninety nine
million dollars not being accepted. Do you think and rechispect
that it's not a bad move for us not to
be engaged.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, I mean, really that was that was a pretty
generous offer and I think coupled with as I say,
at least a minimum of forty million that was offered
from private sources and plus whatever the support that the
Auckland Council would be continuing to give, all being done
in the cause of having the cup here to attract
(10:18):
foreign tourists and boats and so on who would all
come here, which is now now not happening.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Jim Farmer, k C, former board member of our Director
of Team New Zealand, do you think it's ever going
to come back here again? Do you think we'll ever
see an America's Cup regatta on our waters?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Personally, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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