The men's Black Sticks have earned an invite to compete in the FIH Pro League after winning hockey's Nations Cup.
Unfortunately, they won't be accepting that invite.
What's going on? Hockey NZ acting CEO Ken Maplesden explained to D'Arcy Waldegrave on Sportstalk.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed Be and we're.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Going to talk about actual sport. Now. The hockey story
is fascinating. Ken Mapleston joins us now as we talk
about a strange situation around our top hockey teams not
going to the top league because they can't afford it,
they don't want to. It's not convenient, not entirely. Sure,
let's find out more as we go to the boss man,
(00:35):
the acting head, the acting CEO of Hockey and z
His name is Ken Mableson. He joins us now, Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Ken, Yeah, Hi Darcy, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Very good? The crazy old story of hockey and the
Pro League continues. This story keeps development and has done
for a number of years. Now can we cut it back,
long story short to what's actually happening right now with
New Zealand Hockey and the Pro League.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Unfortunately, we've had to decline the invitation for our men
after the fantastic but at the Nation's Cup a month
or so ago.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, as part of one of the.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Things of winning the Nation's Cup as you get an
invitation into the Pro League. But yeah, unfortunately we've had
to decline that back to the FIH. Just look, the
model of the Pro League and the way it fits
into the calendar and the financial commitment is just something
we can't sustain.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So yeah, it's a.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Bit unfortunate, but look, we're really proud of our boys
and the performance they put on and being Pakistan in
the final particularly, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
This is not unusual, but I believe this is the
fourth time I think with both the women's and the
men's Black Sticks that you've said here.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Now, yeah, that's right, it is the fourth time over
the last I must be two and a half years
or so now that we've had to decline the invitation
of going into Pro League. Like I say, the model
of the Pro League, especially for a country like ours
that's geographically Clyde, it quite a long way away from
the center of the hockey world, which is quite often
in Europe. Just the financial realities of that are a challenge,
(02:01):
but also the way it fits into our calendar.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, it's not the best fit for us.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So yeah, we're really confident we can build a program
outside of Pro League that gives our teams a chance
to be successful at the World Cup next year.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And importantly the Olympic Games after that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So first and foremost, these are your targets. These are
your pinnacle events. It doesn't matter about the Pro League.
As long as you do well at that international level,
there's no problem.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, certainly like World Cups and Olympic Games are really
what hockey revolves around. You know, you have one of
those early two years which is kind of a nice cadence,
and yeah, obviously used to have comm Mouth games and
hopefully hockey will be back in that mixer as well
in the future. So those are definitely the pinnacle events
for US, and something like Pro League and other international
competitions like the Nation's Cup. While we're obviously always striving
(02:47):
to win those and put our best foot forward those,
we're always kind of looking building, I guess, to those
pinnacle events and how we develop our team and our
programs around those to go well.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
He took a hell of a hurt with funding was
at one point seven million dollars, so I don't know
how you survived quite frankly. So you haven't got the money,
but you do have the money to go if you want.
But if you spend that money on sending this team
over there to Pro League. Nothing else gets paid for.
It's either that or the alternative, which is looking after
hockey in New Zealand. Is it that simplistic, Ken.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, I mean at a real high level, it is.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And I guess with all sports, right, there's never enough
resource to do all of the things that you would
love to do, so you need to prioritize into what
are the other most important things. And one thing that
we're really clear on while our Black Sticks being successful
at those events and you know, having really good international
campaigns each year is really important, so as building for
the future and making sure that we're supporting the game
(03:43):
to grow domestically and hence while we're implementing the Premier
Hockey League which will go roll into its next season
in November December this year, and having a really strong
domestic game that then builds into our Black Sticks programs
is really important. So it's prioritizing kind of the whole
development of the system as well as our team's performing
well now. So in that context, yeah, look, the financial
(04:05):
constraints of Pro League are a challenge for us, again
in a New Zealand context at the bottom of the world,
and yeah, we're going to use our limited resource and
the most efficient and hopefully the best way to get
the outcomes we're after.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Do other nations have the same problems that the tyranny
of distance, the likes of Argentina, Australia, South Africa, Japan
and the like. Do they experience the same issue wanting
to get to that level?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, certainly there have been some other countries that have
had to decline their Pro League invitations. South Africa did
a couple of years ago when they won the first
Nations Cup in France have also done the same and
obviously France European based a little bit different. But for
South Africa's challenges, we're very similar to ours in terms
of distance and the amount of resource and funding they had.
You know, there are some countries, as you mentioned a
(04:52):
couple there, Australia and Argentina that are in the Pro
League and have that geographic challenge, but the reality is
they have a much bigger commercial and governmental funding base
then we do know size of their countries and population
and things. Again, you know New Zealand small market, small
pool of funding. Getting the resources together to do everything
(05:13):
as a challenge for a lot of sports, not just hockey.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So if you didn't lose the one point seven million
dollars there or thereabouts, you'd be over there playing Pro
League Right now, it's just money or is the distance
thing still very much in your eyeline when you consider
the stresses on the players traving that far to play
that much hockey.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
The reality is the first time we declined well and
the last time we declined the men's invitation was pre
the funding reduction from HPS and Z and we still
declined it. So I think that shows that even if
we did, if we hadn't had taken that hit, I
guess at the end of the last year, it's not
a given that we would have gone into Pro League.
Like I say that, economics of it are a challenge,
(05:56):
but also just the way it fits into our calendar.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
As you say, the wellbeing of our athletes.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It's a huge load for them because alongside Pro League
you're still you know, those other pinnacle events, there's qualification events,
and you know, increasing numbers of our players are playing
professionally or seeming professionally and in Europe or taking up
opportunities through the India Hockey League and the like. So
it's how you get that balance to again, you know,
(06:23):
really perform at those World Cup and Olympic Games when
they come around, and what's the best fit for our
program as well as our kind of financial reality.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
How athlete driven of these decisions. There's a lot of buying.
You guys communicate on a regular basis. It's not about
management or the boardroom telling the athletes what's going on.
I believe that they are right up in play with
all of these decisions and looking toward how they build
this team without being involved in the pro leagues as well.
(06:51):
This is a key to this, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Ken, Yeah, absolutely, And I've got to say our players
and the Hockey Players Association have been fantastic through this,
and actually have been fantastic over the last period of
time on the back of the funding cut. They've you know,
showing that they're really really up for the challenge of
performing on the world stage and making sure that they
(07:14):
can go well. The consultation and kind of open conversations
we have with them are really appreciated. Look, they're disappointed
and not being prog because they feel like that they
you know, are up for it and that they can
really take on the top teams in the world, but
they also understand the realities of where we're at as
a sport. And again they're strongly focused on succeeding and
(07:35):
doing well at the World Cups next year in particular.
So look, I can't speak more highly of the relationship
we've got with the players and just how motivated they
are to do well for the Black Shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So how do you keep up with the jones? Do
you want to do well on these pinnacle events? Plainly
you've got a team that can without playing at that level.
What else have you got in place to make sure
that the Black Sticks of men and women can keep
up with the Joneses form one of a better phrase.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, Look, I mean it's a really about doing it
our way and lots of sports in New Zealand do this.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So there's a few key planks to it.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
One is having great environments for our players to be
and when they're not part of the Black Sticks.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So whether that's.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Them playing in Europe, playing in the India Hockey League
or being based here in New Zealand, having really great
training and competition environments around the country for them, that's
really really critical, and that's back to the kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Us investing in the system.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
The other thing is us then building a program that
when they are when they do come together as the
Black Sticks, they can get really good competition. We've got
some really exciting plans under way that can't quite reveal yet,
but to get some really good competition next year as
a lead into the World Cup, and also later in
the year trying to get some Tier one countries down
to New Zealand to play. You know, both the men's
(08:54):
and women's teams are off to Australia in a few
weeks time to play in the Oceania Cup. Women have
a camp in China prior to that as lead in.
So like it's really about, like I say, mixing those
two things, how do we develop great programs when they're
together Blacksticks, And how do they have really quality environments
to develop as individual athletes and players when they're away
from being within the hockey New Zealand camps or tours.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
What are or aren't More's the point the fah is
doing here. You'd suggest they don't care outside of Europe.
It's like, what if our guys do what you want.
We've got our fun and games here. Do they actually
give a rats ass about's going on in New Zealand.
Are they looking to can they change? What is the
alternative at that level to engage everybody playing in hockey
(09:37):
with the cost and the timing and everything else. Is
there a solution?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Look, it's and to be fair to the fah it's
a real challenge, you know, to put a global league
together that suits everyone's different circumstances and where you know,
we realize that, and.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We've communicated with them, you know, really.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Transparently and have worked closely with them over a period
and they, to their credit, they understand our challenges and
where we sit. So yeah, look, there aren't any kind
of easy answers or golden the bullets here, I guess.
But you know, what's what we need to do is
figure out how we can do it, do it best
for us, and also keep advocating about what we think
is best for the kind of global game of hockey.
(10:17):
But the reality is the Pro League does work for
the countries that are in it, those that have you know,
bigger budgets than we do, and those that are geographically
closer together, particularly in Europe, and and all power to them,
we need to like I say, find our way to
make sure we build our programs and be successful at
those pinnacle events that we're targeting.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed Be and we're.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Going to talk about actual sport. Now. The hockey story
is fascinating. Ken Mapleston joins us now as we talk
about a strange situation around our top hockey teams not
going to the top league because they can't afford it,
they don't want to. It's not convenient, not entirely. Sure,
let's find out more as we go to the boss man,
(00:35):
the acting head, the acting CEO of Hockey and z
His name is Ken Mableson. He joins us now, Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Ken, Yeah, Hi Darcy, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Very good? The crazy old story of hockey and the
Pro League continues. This story keeps development and has done
for a number of years. Now can we cut it back,
long story short to what's actually happening right now with
New Zealand Hockey and the Pro League.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Unfortunately, we've had to decline the invitation for our men
after the fantastic but at the Nation's Cup a month
or so ago.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, as part of one of the.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Things of winning the Nation's Cup as you get an
invitation into the Pro League. But yeah, unfortunately we've had
to decline that back to the FIH. Just look, the
model of the Pro League and the way it fits
into the calendar and the financial commitment is just something
we can't sustain.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So yeah, it's a.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Bit unfortunate, but look, we're really proud of our boys
and the performance they put on and being Pakistan in
the final particularly, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
This is not unusual, but I believe this is the
fourth time I think with both the women's and the
men's Black Sticks that you've said here.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Now, yeah, that's right, it is the fourth time over
the last I must be two and a half years
or so now that we've had to decline the invitation
of going into Pro League. Like I say, the model
of the Pro League, especially for a country like ours
that's geographically Clyde, it quite a long way away from
the center of the hockey world, which is quite often
in Europe. Just the financial realities of that are a challenge,
(02:01):
but also the way it fits into our calendar.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, it's not the best fit for us.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So yeah, we're really confident we can build a program
outside of Pro League that gives our teams a chance
to be successful at the World Cup next year.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And importantly the Olympic Games after that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So first and foremost, these are your targets. These are
your pinnacle events. It doesn't matter about the Pro League.
As long as you do well at that international level,
there's no problem.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, certainly like World Cups and Olympic Games are really
what hockey revolves around. You know, you have one of
those early two years which is kind of a nice cadence,
and yeah, obviously used to have comm Mouth games and
hopefully hockey will be back in that mixer as well
in the future. So those are definitely the pinnacle events
for US, and something like Pro League and other international
competitions like the Nation's Cup. While we're obviously always striving
(02:47):
to win those and put our best foot forward those,
we're always kind of looking building, I guess, to those
pinnacle events and how we develop our team and our
programs around those to go well.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
He took a hell of a hurt with funding was
at one point seven million dollars, so I don't know
how you survived quite frankly. So you haven't got the money,
but you do have the money to go if you want.
But if you spend that money on sending this team
over there to Pro League. Nothing else gets paid for.
It's either that or the alternative, which is looking after
hockey in New Zealand. Is it that simplistic, Ken.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, I mean at a real high level, it is.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And I guess with all sports, right, there's never enough
resource to do all of the things that you would
love to do, so you need to prioritize into what
are the other most important things. And one thing that
we're really clear on while our Black Sticks being successful
at those events and you know, having really good international
campaigns each year is really important, so as building for
the future and making sure that we're supporting the game
(03:43):
to grow domestically and hence while we're implementing the Premier
Hockey League which will go roll into its next season
in November December this year, and having a really strong
domestic game that then builds into our Black Sticks programs
is really important. So it's prioritizing kind of the whole
development of the system as well as our team's performing
well now. So in that context, yeah, look, the financial
(04:05):
constraints of Pro League are a challenge for us, again
in a New Zealand context at the bottom of the world,
and yeah, we're going to use our limited resource and
the most efficient and hopefully the best way to get
the outcomes we're after.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Do other nations have the same problems that the tyranny
of distance, the likes of Argentina, Australia, South Africa, Japan
and the like. Do they experience the same issue wanting
to get to that level?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, certainly there have been some other countries that have
had to decline their Pro League invitations. South Africa did
a couple of years ago when they won the first
Nations Cup in France have also done the same and
obviously France European based a little bit different. But for
South Africa's challenges, we're very similar to ours in terms
of distance and the amount of resource and funding they had.
You know, there are some countries, as you mentioned a
(04:52):
couple there, Australia and Argentina that are in the Pro
League and have that geographic challenge, but the reality is
they have a much bigger commercial and governmental funding base
then we do know size of their countries and population
and things. Again, you know New Zealand small market, small
pool of funding. Getting the resources together to do everything
(05:13):
as a challenge for a lot of sports, not just hockey.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So if you didn't lose the one point seven million
dollars there or thereabouts, you'd be over there playing Pro
League Right now, it's just money or is the distance
thing still very much in your eyeline when you consider
the stresses on the players traving that far to play
that much hockey.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
The reality is the first time we declined well and
the last time we declined the men's invitation was pre
the funding reduction from HPS and Z and we still
declined it. So I think that shows that even if
we did, if we hadn't had taken that hit, I
guess at the end of the last year, it's not
a given that we would have gone into Pro League.
Like I say that, economics of it are a challenge,
(05:56):
but also just the way it fits into our calendar.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
As you say, the wellbeing of our athletes.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It's a huge load for them because alongside Pro League
you're still you know, those other pinnacle events, there's qualification events,
and you know, increasing numbers of our players are playing
professionally or seeming professionally and in Europe or taking up
opportunities through the India Hockey League and the like. So
it's how you get that balance to again, you know,
(06:23):
really perform at those World Cup and Olympic Games when
they come around, and what's the best fit for our
program as well as our kind of financial reality.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
How athlete driven of these decisions. There's a lot of buying.
You guys communicate on a regular basis. It's not about
management or the boardroom telling the athletes what's going on.
I believe that they are right up in play with
all of these decisions and looking toward how they build
this team without being involved in the pro leagues as well.
(06:51):
This is a key to this, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Ken, Yeah, absolutely, And I've got to say our players
and the Hockey Players Association have been fantastic through this,
and actually have been fantastic over the last period of
time on the back of the funding cut. They've you know,
showing that they're really really up for the challenge of
performing on the world stage and making sure that they
(07:14):
can go well. The consultation and kind of open conversations
we have with them are really appreciated. Look, they're disappointed
and not being prog because they feel like that they
you know, are up for it and that they can
really take on the top teams in the world, but
they also understand the realities of where we're at as
a sport. And again they're strongly focused on succeeding and
(07:35):
doing well at the World Cups next year in particular.
So look, I can't speak more highly of the relationship
we've got with the players and just how motivated they
are to do well for the Black Shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So how do you keep up with the jones? Do
you want to do well on these pinnacle events? Plainly
you've got a team that can without playing at that level.
What else have you got in place to make sure
that the Black Sticks of men and women can keep
up with the Joneses form one of a better phrase.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, Look, I mean it's a really about doing it
our way and lots of sports in New Zealand do this.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So there's a few key planks to it.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
One is having great environments for our players to be
and when they're not part of the Black Sticks.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So whether that's.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Them playing in Europe, playing in the India Hockey League
or being based here in New Zealand, having really great
training and competition environments around the country for them, that's
really really critical, and that's back to the kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Us investing in the system.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
The other thing is us then building a program that
when they are when they do come together as the
Black Sticks, they can get really good competition. We've got
some really exciting plans under way that can't quite reveal yet,
but to get some really good competition next year as
a lead into the World Cup, and also later in
the year trying to get some Tier one countries down
to New Zealand to play. You know, both the men's
(08:54):
and women's teams are off to Australia in a few
weeks time to play in the Oceania Cup. Women have
a camp in China prior to that as lead in.
So like it's really about, like I say, mixing those
two things, how do we develop great programs when they're
together Blacksticks, And how do they have really quality environments
to develop as individual athletes and players when they're away
from being within the hockey New Zealand camps or tours.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
What are or aren't More's the point the fah is
doing here. You'd suggest they don't care outside of Europe.
It's like, what if our guys do what you want.
We've got our fun and games here. Do they actually
give a rats ass about's going on in New Zealand.
Are they looking to can they change? What is the
alternative at that level to engage everybody playing in hockey
(09:37):
with the cost and the timing and everything else. Is
there a solution?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Look, it's and to be fair to the fah it's
a real challenge, you know, to put a global league
together that suits everyone's different circumstances and where you know,
we realize that, and.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We've communicated with them, you know, really.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Transparently and have worked closely with them over a period
and they, to their credit, they understand our challenges and
where we sit. So yeah, look, there aren't any kind
of easy answers or golden the bullets here, I guess.
But you know, what's what we need to do is
figure out how we can do it, do it best
for us, and also keep advocating about what we think
is best for the kind of global game of hockey.
(10:17):
But the reality is the Pro League does work for
the countries that are in it, those that have you know,
bigger budgets than we do, and those that are geographically
closer together, particularly in Europe, and and all power to them,
we need to like I say, find our way to
make sure we build our programs and be successful at
those pinnacle events that we're targeting.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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