The All Blacks are gearing up for their must-win rematch against Argentina over the weekend.
Scott Robertson has made some changes to the lineup - former All Blacks coach Laurie Mains joined D'Arcy to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That'd be and it gives me great pleasure to welcome
to the program Lurrie Main's former All Black Coaches. We
take a look at new Ish All Black Coaches selection
for what Laurie is a must win game at Eden
Park of that there is no doubt Lurriy Mains welcome.
This is an interesting selection. Could you call it that?
(00:32):
Does it open your eyes? Does it pique your interest
any particular selection out of the site.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, there are some selections that I find a bit perplexing.
You know. Scott Robinson had a very good start to
the season and the two wins over England and then
Fiji I thought were a great start because that was
a good England team and there was a whole lot
of new players had to be bought into the All
Black now came a bit unstuck against Argentina and there
(01:01):
were reasons for that, and I think that Argentina went
out on the field and said we're not going to
kick the ball to the All Blacks because they're too
good at the counter attack, but we're going to counterattack.
When they kicked to us and run at them, and
incidentally they had the players to do it. Unfortunately, TJ
par and Are kicked away five defensive balls, three of
(01:22):
them far too long for anybody to get under, and
we were put under great pressure with their counter attacks,
and then a couple got partially charged down. And Argentina
is still in our twenty two with an attacking line out.
I thought, when Courtiers Ratima came on, things look sharper
and faster, and I've got to admit I am surprised
(01:45):
they will have their reason, but I'm surprised that TJ.
Per Andara is starting again.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I think you're not alone in that one, Lurie. All
of the rugby scribes, all the reports said pretty much
the same thing, that maybe TJ. Petanara is just he's
a weaver off the pace. He's getting older. I think
the inaccuracy of the box kicks that he chose was relevant,
and the speed of which he distributed was hugely irrelevance.
So a huge irrelevant. So can you look at a
(02:12):
reason put yourself on Robertson's mind as to why they
would go back to t J. I thought his experience
maybe off the bench might work with this, I think
is perplexing to everybody.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, I can't, to be honest, I tried, but I
can't find a reason why they would be likely to
do that. See here's the other thing. His service and
the sporadic nature of the passing and the ball I
think also affected Damien mackenzie. Now, that certainly wasn't one
of his best game and we know when Damien's put
(02:42):
under extreme pressure at times he struggles to cope with it.
And I think that it had a huge impact on
impact on his game as well. And I sort of harp.
I thought, well, maybe they'll put Baden Barrett two times
in a row, the world's best rugby player as a
first five eight. I thought he might have gone back
(03:03):
into first five, but that hasn't happened either.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
They go hand in hand with the concept that Damie
McKenzie actually is very effective off the bench, more so
possibly than Boden Barrett in both of those role well before.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's hard to say that when you see what Boden
Barrett did against England, a game that was at risk
of losing, he made it. He just turned the game on.
It's from fullback, but he can do that. He can
do that at first five eight as well. We have
like when it comes to tough test matches, you're not
worried about how much to win the easier test matches
(03:36):
by you're worried about winning the tough ones. And we've
got a few tough ones ahead of us this year yet,
and you have to select players that handled that real
tough pressure well. And to be honest, body Barrett's probably
the best in the world at that at handling that pressure,
but he is very effective as a fullback as well.
(03:58):
There you go for.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
More black cast. Laura Mains had joined Usier. Rica Jolani
has found himself back at center again. There's a new
wing com nation too, so both those wingers. One's been
removed full stop, Mark Talea has gone back to the
bench joins Anton Lennart Brown there, but Rico Yoanni back
at seemed I think the drums have been beating for
maybe him not to have that role. Are you surprised
(04:21):
he's come back into that again?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, I've got a great deal of faith in Rique Eoanni.
I've seen him play some superb games, but he is
a player that requires the Ford Pack doing what they
meant to be doing and getting quality ball. If you
give him a bit of room, he can be absolutely devastating.
Look at the way he played for the Blues and
(04:43):
a number of those Super Rugby matches this year he
showed what real qualities he has. But it's like first
five eight, it's like any player. You've got to have
a bit of room to do it. And as we know,
it all starts up front.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
When you look at the pack. Plan has been one
change there because the group is out with a neck problem.
But the pack couldn't do a great deal because we're
no scrums. That made it a very interesting Test match.
I think it was the fifty eighth minute before the
second one came. So largely the pack has been unaffected.
The loose forwards have come under a wee bit of
the microscope and a man called Sam kin is off
(05:21):
the bench to hopefully get back in and maybe cause
a bit of a ruckus. What do you make of
this reselection again, Laurie.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, it's the first year of the four year cycle
and often as a selector you will retain a very
experienced strong player like Sam Kaine to have him around
to help bring on the younger players and the newer
players that you're bringing in. So that's the reason I've
got no issues with it at all. You know, Sam
(05:49):
Kain's had a great All Black career and he could
be a big help, not only in coming off the bench,
but in the preparation of the team. And I want
to say at this point, to me, Sam Darry was
the pick of the Fords. I thought he had a
fantastic and he was active, he was busy, and he
(06:09):
showed a great deal of skill and timing. He was impressive.
Not so impressed with two bo Vaya. He didn't seem
to get into the game enough to add an awful
lot to the All Black Ford effort.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
They're pretty skinny though, aren't they when it comes to
the stocks at lot Josh Lord coming off the bench,
so hands tied to a degree. Did you see any
locks coming through in particular? Obviously Sam Dorre's not particularly
well with Auckland. He's been rewarded and he has locked
the business. But across the country through Super Rugby, does
anyone stand out to you, Laurie for the future.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
The short answer is I can't think of any others
at the moment. I mean to lose White Lock and
Retallic and then to have your best two locks both
injured is really tough. So that's your top four locks,
you know from last year out of the mix, and
it is tough. Sam Dowry to me, show me he's
(07:02):
ready and you know he can do it. Finding another
one to go with him while Scott Barrett's out and
Tupolaju was out, I'm not sure. But if we've got
three very good locks, two of them just happened to
be injured.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
When you look at the go forward of the pack,
there were some criticisms leveled at the loose forward trio,
Savere who had an unusually quiet game, popular and Ethan
Black at it not really providing what they wanted. Comments
around what six, seven and eight did and what they
need to do this time around.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
They were physical and they tried like hell to get
into the game. But it's a bit like a first
five eight of he's getting bad ball and his forwards
are not performing. Loose forwards rely not only on the
other forwards to give them a foundation to work off,
but they also rely on what the backs are doing
to make sure ball's presented properly, it's in the right place,
(07:58):
and they know where they've got to be heading to
secure that second phase. See, I wouldn't be critical of
any of them, all very well performed players, and I
just don't think their abilities could be used in that
match because of the maybe the performance of the rest
of the forward pack and the performance of the backs.
(08:20):
So there's many points attributed to that. Artie Savia he
gave it everything he had and you know, he did
a lot of good things, but he wasn't as dynamic
as as we expect. There's only one question I'd ask
did being captain and under pressure like that as the captain,
did that affect his playing ability? And I only asked
(08:42):
that because Artie Savia I've got so much respect for
as a rugby player, as I have for both Blackadder
and Populi. They are international quality loose forwards, but you
have to make it possible for them to display their
wars if you want to get the best out of them.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So the fact that there was not a great deal
of action when it comes to scrums, how much do
you think that affected the team?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think it did because the All Blacks, you know,
traditionally develop a lot of playoff scrums and they put
the opposition under pressure off scrums and I don't know.
I think back when it was suddenly pointed out by
the commentary team it's half time. We haven't had a
scrum yet. I'm thinking, Holy, that is correct. What happened
(09:35):
that would have made the referee water scrum and there
was nothing in that first spell, So that is most
unusual and I'm sure that won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Of course, Also it gives the All Blacks a chance
to reset, to slow things down, not that they're a
slow team, but to actually reassemble. And it's not so
hare and scarem and held a skelter, which is something
that suits Argentina. So it kind of fell into their
laps to a degree, didn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, isn't this a turnaround because Argentina under checker and
before that, we're a team that wanted the game slow.
They grounded out, they had strong scrum, strong forwards, and
they didn't move the ball a lot and they kicked
for field position. This team, I'm sure the All Blacks
were not expecting Argentina to attack them the way they
(10:22):
did with counter attacking and the way they ran the ball,
and so I think it actually suited them, but it
didn't altogether suit. The All Blacks are a team that
like the game played at pace, but they like to
have that solid foundation to work off and they never
got the chance to get that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
They like the structure and on that. Just before we
let you go, Lrie Mains and thanks so much for
joining us. You think they're going to do okay and
protect the fortress at Eaton Park on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I'm sure they will. I think we're all in a
fair bit of bother if they don't produce a performance
way above what we saw. They know what to expect now,
and these coaches are good coaches. They're proven, and they
will have worked out a plan and there's enough experience
in that All Black side to you know, to be
the same work out what they've got to do to
(11:11):
get the game going the way they They have to
make the game work for them, not take whatever Argentina
gives them. And I felt a little bit in that
first test that's what happened. They waited to see what
Argentina would let them do. Well, they're going to turn
around and make it work for themselves, make it happen.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Used to be afraise of mine for more from sports talk.
Listen live to news talks. They'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That'd be and it gives me great pleasure to welcome
to the program Lurrie Main's former All Black Coaches. We
take a look at new Ish All Black Coaches selection
for what Laurie is a must win game at Eden
Park of that there is no doubt Lurriy Mains welcome.
This is an interesting selection. Could you call it that?
(00:32):
Does it open your eyes? Does it pique your interest
any particular selection out of the site.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, there are some selections that I find a bit perplexing.
You know. Scott Robinson had a very good start to
the season and the two wins over England and then
Fiji I thought were a great start because that was
a good England team and there was a whole lot
of new players had to be bought into the All
Black now came a bit unstuck against Argentina and there
(01:01):
were reasons for that, and I think that Argentina went
out on the field and said we're not going to
kick the ball to the All Blacks because they're too
good at the counter attack, but we're going to counterattack.
When they kicked to us and run at them, and
incidentally they had the players to do it. Unfortunately, TJ
par and Are kicked away five defensive balls, three of
(01:22):
them far too long for anybody to get under, and
we were put under great pressure with their counter attacks,
and then a couple got partially charged down. And Argentina
is still in our twenty two with an attacking line out.
I thought, when Courtiers Ratima came on, things look sharper
and faster, and I've got to admit I am surprised
(01:45):
they will have their reason, but I'm surprised that TJ.
Per Andara is starting again.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I think you're not alone in that one, Lurie. All
of the rugby scribes, all the reports said pretty much
the same thing, that maybe TJ. Petanara is just he's
a weaver off the pace. He's getting older. I think
the inaccuracy of the box kicks that he chose was relevant,
and the speed of which he distributed was hugely irrelevance.
So a huge irrelevant. So can you look at a
(02:12):
reason put yourself on Robertson's mind as to why they
would go back to t J. I thought his experience
maybe off the bench might work with this, I think
is perplexing to everybody.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, I can't, to be honest, I tried, but I
can't find a reason why they would be likely to
do that. See here's the other thing. His service and
the sporadic nature of the passing and the ball I
think also affected Damien mackenzie. Now, that certainly wasn't one
of his best game and we know when Damien's put
(02:42):
under extreme pressure at times he struggles to cope with it.
And I think that it had a huge impact on
impact on his game as well. And I sort of harp.
I thought, well, maybe they'll put Baden Barrett two times
in a row, the world's best rugby player as a
first five eight. I thought he might have gone back
(03:03):
into first five, but that hasn't happened either.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
They go hand in hand with the concept that Damie
McKenzie actually is very effective off the bench, more so
possibly than Boden Barrett in both of those role well before.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's hard to say that when you see what Boden
Barrett did against England, a game that was at risk
of losing, he made it. He just turned the game on.
It's from fullback, but he can do that. He can
do that at first five eight as well. We have
like when it comes to tough test matches, you're not
worried about how much to win the easier test matches
(03:36):
by you're worried about winning the tough ones. And we've
got a few tough ones ahead of us this year yet,
and you have to select players that handled that real
tough pressure well. And to be honest, body Barrett's probably
the best in the world at that at handling that pressure,
but he is very effective as a fullback as well.
(03:58):
There you go for.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
More black cast. Laura Mains had joined Usier. Rica Jolani
has found himself back at center again. There's a new
wing com nation too, so both those wingers. One's been
removed full stop, Mark Talea has gone back to the
bench joins Anton Lennart Brown there, but Rico Yoanni back
at seemed I think the drums have been beating for
maybe him not to have that role. Are you surprised
(04:21):
he's come back into that again?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, I've got a great deal of faith in Rique Eoanni.
I've seen him play some superb games, but he is
a player that requires the Ford Pack doing what they
meant to be doing and getting quality ball. If you
give him a bit of room, he can be absolutely devastating.
Look at the way he played for the Blues and
(04:43):
a number of those Super Rugby matches this year he
showed what real qualities he has. But it's like first
five eight, it's like any player. You've got to have
a bit of room to do it. And as we know,
it all starts up front.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
When you look at the pack. Plan has been one
change there because the group is out with a neck problem.
But the pack couldn't do a great deal because we're
no scrums. That made it a very interesting Test match.
I think it was the fifty eighth minute before the
second one came. So largely the pack has been unaffected.
The loose forwards have come under a wee bit of
the microscope and a man called Sam kin is off
(05:21):
the bench to hopefully get back in and maybe cause
a bit of a ruckus. What do you make of
this reselection again, Laurie.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, it's the first year of the four year cycle
and often as a selector you will retain a very
experienced strong player like Sam Kaine to have him around
to help bring on the younger players and the newer
players that you're bringing in. So that's the reason I've
got no issues with it at all. You know, Sam
(05:49):
Kain's had a great All Black career and he could
be a big help, not only in coming off the bench,
but in the preparation of the team. And I want
to say at this point, to me, Sam Darry was
the pick of the Fords. I thought he had a
fantastic and he was active, he was busy, and he
(06:09):
showed a great deal of skill and timing. He was impressive.
Not so impressed with two bo Vaya. He didn't seem
to get into the game enough to add an awful
lot to the All Black Ford effort.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
They're pretty skinny though, aren't they when it comes to
the stocks at lot Josh Lord coming off the bench,
so hands tied to a degree. Did you see any
locks coming through in particular? Obviously Sam Dorre's not particularly
well with Auckland. He's been rewarded and he has locked
the business. But across the country through Super Rugby, does
anyone stand out to you, Laurie for the future.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
The short answer is I can't think of any others
at the moment. I mean to lose White Lock and
Retallic and then to have your best two locks both
injured is really tough. So that's your top four locks,
you know from last year out of the mix, and
it is tough. Sam Dowry to me, show me he's
(07:02):
ready and you know he can do it. Finding another
one to go with him while Scott Barrett's out and
Tupolaju was out, I'm not sure. But if we've got
three very good locks, two of them just happened to
be injured.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
When you look at the go forward of the pack,
there were some criticisms leveled at the loose forward trio,
Savere who had an unusually quiet game, popular and Ethan
Black at it not really providing what they wanted. Comments
around what six, seven and eight did and what they
need to do this time around.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
They were physical and they tried like hell to get
into the game. But it's a bit like a first
five eight of he's getting bad ball and his forwards
are not performing. Loose forwards rely not only on the
other forwards to give them a foundation to work off,
but they also rely on what the backs are doing
to make sure ball's presented properly, it's in the right place,
(07:58):
and they know where they've got to be heading to
secure that second phase. See, I wouldn't be critical of
any of them, all very well performed players, and I
just don't think their abilities could be used in that
match because of the maybe the performance of the rest
of the forward pack and the performance of the backs.
(08:20):
So there's many points attributed to that. Artie Savia he
gave it everything he had and you know, he did
a lot of good things, but he wasn't as dynamic
as as we expect. There's only one question I'd ask
did being captain and under pressure like that as the captain,
did that affect his playing ability? And I only asked
(08:42):
that because Artie Savia I've got so much respect for
as a rugby player, as I have for both Blackadder
and Populi. They are international quality loose forwards, but you
have to make it possible for them to display their
wars if you want to get the best out of them.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So the fact that there was not a great deal
of action when it comes to scrums, how much do
you think that affected the team?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think it did because the All Blacks, you know,
traditionally develop a lot of playoff scrums and they put
the opposition under pressure off scrums and I don't know.
I think back when it was suddenly pointed out by
the commentary team it's half time. We haven't had a
scrum yet. I'm thinking, Holy, that is correct. What happened
(09:35):
that would have made the referee water scrum and there
was nothing in that first spell, So that is most
unusual and I'm sure that won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Of course, Also it gives the All Blacks a chance
to reset, to slow things down, not that they're a
slow team, but to actually reassemble. And it's not so
hare and scarem and held a skelter, which is something
that suits Argentina. So it kind of fell into their
laps to a degree, didn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, isn't this a turnaround because Argentina under checker and
before that, we're a team that wanted the game slow.
They grounded out, they had strong scrum, strong forwards, and
they didn't move the ball a lot and they kicked
for field position. This team, I'm sure the All Blacks
were not expecting Argentina to attack them the way they
(10:22):
did with counter attacking and the way they ran the ball,
and so I think it actually suited them, but it
didn't altogether suit. The All Blacks are a team that
like the game played at pace, but they like to
have that solid foundation to work off and they never
got the chance to get that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
They like the structure and on that. Just before we
let you go, Lrie Mains and thanks so much for
joining us. You think they're going to do okay and
protect the fortress at Eaton Park on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I'm sure they will. I think we're all in a
fair bit of bother if they don't produce a performance
way above what we saw. They know what to expect now,
and these coaches are good coaches. They're proven, and they
will have worked out a plan and there's enough experience
in that All Black side to you know, to be
the same work out what they've got to do to
(11:11):
get the game going the way they They have to
make the game work for them, not take whatever Argentina
gives them. And I felt a little bit in that
first test that's what happened. They waited to see what
Argentina would let them do. Well, they're going to turn
around and make it work for themselves, make it happen.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Used to be afraise of mine for more from sports talk.
Listen live to news talks. They'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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