The 2025 Super Rugby season has drawn to a close and the next batch of All Blacks tests are on the horizon - sparking discussion about finding the right balance during training.
Former All Blacks coach Laurie Mains reveals how he found the balance between fielding and resting key players.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, great pleasure to chat rugby with former All
Blacks coach Laurie Mains with us now, Laurie, thanks so
much for your time. Not a problem, well, nothing quite
like the first test week of the year to get
the issues bubbling away. And one that's cropped up is
to Maty Williams, the All Blacks prop out for six
(00:33):
to eight weeks after he suffered a recurrence of a
knee injury that he had a week prior to the
Super Rugby Final. He did it in the final again
and now he's out for a few weeks. Laurie, Look,
is there anyone to blame here or is this just
part and parcel of being a rugby coach.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, it's a bit of both. It is part and
partial of being a rugby coach. But depending on the
medical analysis he had of his injury would decide whether
or not he should have played in that Super Final.
I think if I had been to Mighty Williams and
it wasn't one hundred percent, I think I'd have said
(01:12):
my first responsibility is to the All Blacks. But these
players do come under a lot of pressure, and a
final of Super Rugby is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's right, isn't it. If it had been a round
thirteen game, I suspect he wouldn't have played. But because
it's a final, there's a championship on the line, your
natural inclination as a player surely is to get out
there and help your team win a championship.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Absolutely, and that would have been a huge thrill for
him to do that. It's a big achievement, particularly after
the Crusaders formed last year, for them to come back
and win it, I thought was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
If during your day as a coach that the player
had said, oh, look, I'm I can probably get through
the game, but I'm not one hundred percent. I'm sure
you went through these scenarios, what would your response have been.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I would have put it purely in the hands of
the medical people. You know, you know in your own mind,
you know what you want. Yes, should love the player
to sit out the game and be ready for the
test that's upcoming, but you've got to be fair to everybody,
and and so it rests on the advice from the
medical people really, and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That ultimately probably should be where it begins and ends,
isn't it If he's been clear by medical stuff. You
know their reputations and jobs are on the line for
their teams, and you know that their doctors, they've got
the hippocratic oath. If they've said he's a right to
go play a game of rugby, been sure, we should
take them at their word.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I agree entirely. Now I've got no idea what the
medical advice was. It may well have been you'd be
better not to play. Who knows, So I'm not I'm
not blaming anybody because I just don't know who would
have been majorly responsible. No, that's right, and you look
at but let me say this, he's a fantastic player
(03:07):
to Mighty Williams and that All Black front row needs
him in there. So this is a fair bit of
a setback for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well how did they approach that now, Laurie? With to
Mighty being out for six to eight weeks. Ethan degru
who had become the number two choice by the end
of last year, does he go straight back up to
being number one for this first Test against France and
Dinedan this weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I think he probably does. Ethan's one of those players.
He's got tremendous ability, and he looked fairly strong to
me at scrum time. But I feel he could lift
his game another ten percent, get a little bit more
aggressive and a little bit hungrier, and he could also
(03:57):
become a very very good All Black.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Do you mend that in terms of his ball in
hand or his defense or both everything.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Whole game hitting rucks, you know, the whole part of
his game. I think he could lift his intensity a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
As we approached this international season, I guess we didn't
have a super rugby punctured by restern rotation. You know,
in previous years there've been players missing for key weeks
and we didn't see a lot of the best players play.
The best. Super rugby was enhanced by that. But there's
also I guess with the All Blacks now, players have
played perhaps a few more minutes than maybe they haven't
previous years. So for Scott Robertson, there's going to be
(04:36):
a bit of balance over the course of the season.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well they could well be, but those players, you know,
would benefit from that. I am a little bit skeptical
about All Black coaches holding players back out of Super
Rugby World Cup years different, different and then the All
Black coach should have say over his whole squad when
(05:00):
and how much they play in Super Rugby. But you know,
we're three years out, so I I think Scott Robertson
has done the right thing and he's let the super
teams and the super coaches get on with doing their
job to the best of their ability, and unfortunately, because
of that, you are going to lose the odd player.
Particularly today's rugby is incredibly physical and it's just a
(05:27):
fact of life that you need bigger squads and they
do have much bigger squads now than in my day,
and you need to be prepared and covered for injuries
because they are going to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
As you said, that's the nature of rugby. The collisions
have become heavyer, you know, to Mighty Williams who we
touched on at the start of the interviews, one hundred
and forty kgs, you know, but he's also a very
fit one hundred and forty kg's. He's a physical specimen.
When those bodies come into contact, injuries can happen.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Oh absolutely. I mean the player receiving the knocks is
bigger and stronger than they were twenty years go, but
still you know they are they are going to get
injured the game. This is a big This is a
big story. But the game has become more physical around
(06:19):
the rucks and tackle areas, and a lot of that
is caused by the I believe the interpretation of what
players are about to do and not allowed to do.
But ultimately you are going to get some injuries.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Is that because of the referees, Laurie. Do you think
that every interpretation of the rules seems different week to
week or is that just the way that rugby is currently.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I think it's the way rugby as referees go out
there and they all try their best to referee the
game according to the interpretations that they are given by
their bosses, and I have a suspicion that some of
those interpretations are a little bit hard to understand and
(07:09):
referee struggle to get it right all the time. But
I don't blame them. I more blame the complexity of
what's happening around the tackle and rocky area.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Just a couple of final questions, Laurie, So grateful for
your time. The All Blacks playing is so called weekend
French team over the next three weeks. Is there such
thing as a weekend team and test rugby these days?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, the way I see it, France have got I
think it's five players that are not available for this
game because they played in their final last week and
they'll probably be back for next week. There's no such
thing as the second grade French team. These are players
(07:55):
who are on the cusp that have been brought in
and they are playing for recognition from their selectors to
become a permanent fixture in the French team. That makes
them more dangerous because, believe me, France have got a
lot of depth in their rugby players. These will be
players as good as those that are left out, but
(08:18):
they've got more to play for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And what looks sorry, what does success look like do
you think, Laurie for the All Blacks over the course
of the series. As you mentioned, these players have got
a lot to play for. On the other side of things,
the All Blacks, what does success look like for them
over the next three weeks?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, for me looking at it, the All Blacks don't
have the big number of world class players that they've
had in the past. We had quite a clean out
two years ago. So I think success is the new
players they're bringing in proving that they're up to Test rugby.
(08:55):
If that happens, you know, of course the All Blacks
want to win, but for me, that's not the major
part of the exercise. Right now, you All Blacks are
in a rebuilding phase for a World Cup that's happening
in two and a half his time, So they are
looking for these all of these new players that get
(09:15):
to go to step up and say yes, I'm ready
for Test rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Well I'm fascinating. Three weeks about to unfold. Laurie Mains,
thank you so much for your time as always with
us here on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
For more from sports talk, Listen live to News Talks
EDB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, great pleasure to chat rugby with former All
Blacks coach Laurie Mains with us now, Laurie, thanks so
much for your time. Not a problem, well, nothing quite
like the first test week of the year to get
the issues bubbling away. And one that's cropped up is
to Maty Williams, the All Blacks prop out for six
(00:33):
to eight weeks after he suffered a recurrence of a
knee injury that he had a week prior to the
Super Rugby Final. He did it in the final again
and now he's out for a few weeks. Laurie, Look,
is there anyone to blame here or is this just
part and parcel of being a rugby coach.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, it's a bit of both. It is part and
partial of being a rugby coach. But depending on the
medical analysis he had of his injury would decide whether
or not he should have played in that Super Final.
I think if I had been to Mighty Williams and
it wasn't one hundred percent, I think I'd have said
(01:12):
my first responsibility is to the All Blacks. But these
players do come under a lot of pressure, and a
final of Super Rugby is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's right, isn't it. If it had been a round
thirteen game, I suspect he wouldn't have played. But because
it's a final, there's a championship on the line, your
natural inclination as a player surely is to get out
there and help your team win a championship.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Absolutely, and that would have been a huge thrill for
him to do that. It's a big achievement, particularly after
the Crusaders formed last year, for them to come back
and win it, I thought was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
If during your day as a coach that the player
had said, oh, look, I'm I can probably get through
the game, but I'm not one hundred percent. I'm sure
you went through these scenarios, what would your response have been.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I would have put it purely in the hands of
the medical people. You know, you know in your own mind,
you know what you want. Yes, should love the player
to sit out the game and be ready for the
test that's upcoming, but you've got to be fair to everybody,
and and so it rests on the advice from the
medical people really, and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That ultimately probably should be where it begins and ends,
isn't it If he's been clear by medical stuff. You
know their reputations and jobs are on the line for
their teams, and you know that their doctors, they've got
the hippocratic oath. If they've said he's a right to
go play a game of rugby, been sure, we should
take them at their word.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I agree entirely. Now I've got no idea what the
medical advice was. It may well have been you'd be
better not to play. Who knows, So I'm not I'm
not blaming anybody because I just don't know who would
have been majorly responsible. No, that's right, and you look
at but let me say this, he's a fantastic player
(03:07):
to Mighty Williams and that All Black front row needs
him in there. So this is a fair bit of
a setback for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well how did they approach that now, Laurie? With to
Mighty being out for six to eight weeks. Ethan degru
who had become the number two choice by the end
of last year, does he go straight back up to
being number one for this first Test against France and
Dinedan this weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I think he probably does. Ethan's one of those players.
He's got tremendous ability, and he looked fairly strong to
me at scrum time. But I feel he could lift
his game another ten percent, get a little bit more
aggressive and a little bit hungrier, and he could also
(03:57):
become a very very good All Black.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Do you mend that in terms of his ball in
hand or his defense or both everything.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Whole game hitting rucks, you know, the whole part of
his game. I think he could lift his intensity a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
As we approached this international season, I guess we didn't
have a super rugby punctured by restern rotation. You know,
in previous years there've been players missing for key weeks
and we didn't see a lot of the best players play.
The best. Super rugby was enhanced by that. But there's
also I guess with the All Blacks now, players have
played perhaps a few more minutes than maybe they haven't
previous years. So for Scott Robertson, there's going to be
(04:36):
a bit of balance over the course of the season.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well they could well be, but those players, you know,
would benefit from that. I am a little bit skeptical
about All Black coaches holding players back out of Super
Rugby World Cup years different, different and then the All
Black coach should have say over his whole squad when
(05:00):
and how much they play in Super Rugby. But you know,
we're three years out, so I I think Scott Robertson
has done the right thing and he's let the super
teams and the super coaches get on with doing their
job to the best of their ability, and unfortunately, because
of that, you are going to lose the odd player.
Particularly today's rugby is incredibly physical and it's just a
(05:27):
fact of life that you need bigger squads and they
do have much bigger squads now than in my day,
and you need to be prepared and covered for injuries
because they are going to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
As you said, that's the nature of rugby. The collisions
have become heavyer, you know, to Mighty Williams who we
touched on at the start of the interviews, one hundred
and forty kgs, you know, but he's also a very
fit one hundred and forty kg's. He's a physical specimen.
When those bodies come into contact, injuries can happen.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Oh absolutely. I mean the player receiving the knocks is
bigger and stronger than they were twenty years go, but
still you know they are they are going to get
injured the game. This is a big This is a
big story. But the game has become more physical around
(06:19):
the rucks and tackle areas, and a lot of that
is caused by the I believe the interpretation of what
players are about to do and not allowed to do.
But ultimately you are going to get some injuries.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Is that because of the referees, Laurie. Do you think
that every interpretation of the rules seems different week to
week or is that just the way that rugby is currently.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I think it's the way rugby as referees go out
there and they all try their best to referee the
game according to the interpretations that they are given by
their bosses, and I have a suspicion that some of
those interpretations are a little bit hard to understand and
(07:09):
referee struggle to get it right all the time. But
I don't blame them. I more blame the complexity of
what's happening around the tackle and rocky area.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Just a couple of final questions, Laurie, So grateful for
your time. The All Blacks playing is so called weekend
French team over the next three weeks. Is there such
thing as a weekend team and test rugby these days?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, the way I see it, France have got I
think it's five players that are not available for this
game because they played in their final last week and
they'll probably be back for next week. There's no such
thing as the second grade French team. These are players
(07:55):
who are on the cusp that have been brought in
and they are playing for recognition from their selectors to
become a permanent fixture in the French team. That makes
them more dangerous because, believe me, France have got a
lot of depth in their rugby players. These will be
players as good as those that are left out, but
(08:18):
they've got more to play for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And what looks sorry, what does success look like do
you think, Laurie for the All Blacks over the course
of the series. As you mentioned, these players have got
a lot to play for. On the other side of things,
the All Blacks, what does success look like for them
over the next three weeks?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, for me looking at it, the All Blacks don't
have the big number of world class players that they've
had in the past. We had quite a clean out
two years ago. So I think success is the new
players they're bringing in proving that they're up to Test rugby.
(08:55):
If that happens, you know, of course the All Blacks
want to win, but for me, that's not the major
part of the exercise. Right now, you All Blacks are
in a rebuilding phase for a World Cup that's happening
in two and a half his time, So they are
looking for these all of these new players that get
(09:15):
to go to step up and say yes, I'm ready
for Test rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Well I'm fascinating. Three weeks about to unfold. Laurie Mains,
thank you so much for your time as always with
us here on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
For more from sports talk, Listen live to News Talks
EDB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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