Sportstalk's D'Arcy Waldegrave has decided to kick his work week off by picking apart the All Blacks selections for the series against France
The 35-man squad was announced yesterday and includes 5 debutants.
Liam Napier of the New Zealand Herald was at the squad announcement, he spoke to D'Arcy on the show.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Let's pick apart some of the All Black side. I
say picking apart will be for hours if we do
the whole lot. But let's sit down with Liam and
Napien now and talk about the nature of the team.
He joins us. Now, good evening, Liam, Hey does reading
your piece as you do in the New Zealand and
held looking at the All Blacks and this is the
most interesting side of it, isn't it. No wingers are
(00:37):
pile of midfielders. How does this actually work? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome? Yeah? Great to be here? Does look?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's an interesting squad, very intriguing on a number of fronts,
and you've picked up on one there. Unbalanced on first glance,
isn't it? In the back line six midfielders seems very bloated.
There's four second fives among that group and only two
specialist wingers. You do have a lot of versatility within
the squad. Guys like Will Jordan, Rikowanny can all play wings,
(01:08):
so it's not like the All Blacks don't have really
high caliber options there. Ricojuani, of course started his career
on the wing. Will Jordan's played the vast majority of
his test career on the wing, so there is flexibility.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
But if you're an.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Ammonia Nadaura or Leroy Carter, who both of whom played
brilliantly for the Chiefs this year, that'd feel hard done by.
And then if you're a David Havili on the outside
looking in after seeing six midfielders selected, you'd be pretty
aggrieved as well.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
What does this say about wing stocks or More's the point?
The want for Scott Robertson to use players who can
cover many different positions. I don't know if this has
worked entirely well, especially when it comes to do wingers
and midfielders in the past. Are we satisfied with this?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It does evoke a few historical anxieties, doesn't it dark
when you think about putting square pigs and round holes.
Will getting a wee bit clever with playing players out
of position, particularly at World Cups. We won't go there
tonight and we keep everyone everyone's heart rate at a
certain level.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm old enough I lived through that. You cannot do
this to me again. But this is this? Is this
not a huge issue? Is this just the nature of
the size of squads and we just have to deal
with it.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Look, I think I would have liked to have seen
some more specialist wings in the squad.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You've only got Severe Reese and Caleb Clark.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And while there is that that flexibility there, I do
see it as a very specialized position. So I think
they are a bit lights in that departments. But when
it comes to the midfields, I do like the composition
of who they've picked. I like the fact that they
are picking big, powerful, destructive ball carriers to punch over
(02:59):
that game line. You've got Jordi Barrett, Quinte Pier and
Tavatavanaua who is an absolute tank both over the ball
and ball in hand. So it's a bit of an
experimental feel with guys like Tavia Tavanawa. Bring him in
see what he's capable of. But then you've got someone
like Quinta Pye who makes a comeback after three years
(03:22):
out of the All Blacks had that horrific knee injury
from the Dog Act from Darcy Swain, showed resilience and
was an absolute standout for the Chiefs this year. Very physical,
very dominant on the carry and on defense. So I
do like that departments, but I can't see them carrying
six midfielders for the whole season. So it is going
(03:46):
to be about taking your chances when they arrive.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So you talk about Rica Yuanni, you started out there.
Many people think that you can't just transform into a center,
you grow up in that position because it's such a
nuanced role. But he's coming and done it in All Black,
done reasonably well, pushing him out to the wing and maybe, oh,
do we see him reverting back to where he started off?
(04:09):
Is this maybe what the writing on the wall is.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I think that the All Blacks fell At the announcement yesterday,
we asked Scott Hansen and Scott Robertson about where they
see Tava tavannahwah and it is predominantly in the midfield
and as a second five. And this is a new
position for him. Largely, he's very raw in his transition
from the wing to the midfield. It's only happened this
(04:34):
year really with the Highlanders. So that is a bit
of a punt, particularly from a defensive point of view.
He might may be caught out, but he is a
point of difference. He is built like a tank, he
had the most turnovers in Super rugby bar no one
soubiously creefy was a freak, and Tava ta Nawa had
more turnovers.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So if you're.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Injecting a guy like that off the bench, there's a
bit of risk, but there is potentially a lot of upsides.
And just with Rico, I think he's been a center
for a long time now, he's learned position, but he
is under pressure from a guy like Billy Proctor, who
will see more game time this year than he did last.
And there's also Anton Lennard Brown in the squad, so
(05:17):
I think you will see Rico shift out to the
wing a lot more this season.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
International rugby is no place to learn your craft in
the midfield. As I said very nuance, second five center,
you've got to know what you're doing before you've even
done it. You can't grab the ball and hope and
pass that. There's a real problem here that he might
get hugely exposed in that role by opposition attacks. Do
(05:44):
you have that fear too? Am I just freaking out
for no reason?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It's a real risk to us. I think second five
you're a wee bit more protected than you are as
a center. As a center, there's so much more space
between you and your winger. You think about you know,
some of our best defensive backs over the years, they
have been centers, the Conrad Smiths of the world. So
your second is a bit more protected between your ten
(06:09):
and center.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
But look, I think what they'll do.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Is they'll bring taver Tavernao and I don't see them
playing him in the first Test, maybe not even the second.
Perhaps they'll bring him off the bench for the third test,
easeim and give them time. But there is undoubtedly an
element of risk. But if you don't give these guys
a chance, then you don't know. They could have picked
David Havilli. He's played thirty two Tests in the last
(06:35):
four years. They know what they're going to get. But
tav Taa has that X factor. He's a bit of
a wild card. So they're prepared to take a bit
of a punt and the hope that he does take
the test rugby and provides that point of difference.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
As far as the rest of the squad is concerned them.
Napier and his herald guard joins us. There is also
some question marks over some of the decisions made when
he's leaving some of his so called mates, as the
media often describe it as out of the Crusader's side,
out of that lineup. What this says to me, though,
(07:10):
is he is willing to He's willing to throw the
dice a bit. In his second year, he feels like
he has the space to actually do that and he can.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah, look does I think in his first year Scott
Robinson was very, very conservative in his selections. They blooded
ten rookies last year, the All Blacks. But when push
comes to shove, when the pressure came on, they backed
experience in every possible tight selection call. And what you're
seeing now is the willingness to be more brave and
(07:45):
bold and I think a clearer picture of how they
want to play. What's important to them, and that really
is about go forward power, a bit of versatility. But
in those type selections you talk about Ethan Blackheader was
a massive surprise for pretty much everyone that he is
not in this squad, not purely because he's from the Crusaders,
(08:08):
but he has been favored through successive all Black regimes
back to Ian Foster and last year.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
He's a guy that's had massive injury troubles. But what's.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Ethan is his lack of punch, his ball carrying. He
doesn't have the same post contact meters as a guy
like some of Penny Female or a Wallace to Titi
and the All Blacks have also strangely only selected five
loose forwards, and they're prepared to you Scott Barrett and
to Puviai as blindside cover. I think they were looking
(08:43):
at a guy like Simon Parker the Chiefs lose forward,
but he's out.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For at least the next month with an ankle injury.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
So it is worth keeping in mind that the squad's
thirty two man squad is only for the French series,
and that the All Blacks will pick another squad, So
I think you'll see further change. But you're right some
big calls. You know that there were accusations. I was
one of them that in some of the tight selections,
(09:10):
I felt the All Blacks did favor, you know, some
of the former Crusaders, and I think we saw that
with guys like Schaefi Harckey coming in as a training
partner last year. But that's certainly not the case with
this squad. They've left out George Bauer, who was strong
in the final series, Lucy had prop and picked Ollie
Norris from the Chiefs. Ethan Blackhead has been cut David
(09:30):
Heavily another example. So they have certain You certainly can't
accuse the selectors of favoring the Crusaders in this picture.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And anything else. Selection wives that struck you as a
little oddly and nape you and litill come out who's
been picked or who hasn't been picked? Something else you
can look at.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I think injuries have played a bit of a factor.
You've got guys like No Armor and Peter Lukeye carrying injuries.
But Brody McAllister was a real bolter, the Chiefs hooker,
former Crusader. He moved up to Hamilton this year and
had a real impact both starting and coming off the bench.
Thoughts having invested in I think twenty two to twenty
(10:10):
three year old George Bell last year that the All
Blacks would have continued that theme. But they've been impressed
by Brody McAllister, so that was a surprise. I'm really
intrigued to see how they bring through these rookies. Fabian
Holland is another one who everyone expected to be in
that squad's he became eligible last year the first Dutch
(10:33):
born All Black and I think he's a guy that
will make a real impact and I'm really happy to
see do see Carefi in there a real reward for perseverance.
He was first in the All Blacks going back the
best part of five years and has gone away as
matured in the leadership roles with Wellington and the Hurricanes
(10:53):
and been a real standout for them this year, particularly
in that turnover capacity. So when you think about the
composition of the bench bench stars, and you're looking at
potentially bringing guys like Carrefi, Tava tav Nahwa, Fabian Holand
off the bench, there's a bit of a new emerging
breeds there that could change the dynamic of how the
(11:13):
All Blecks finish games. And that's something they really need
and are looking to target because the four games they
lost last year, they led them all at halftime.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Let's pick apart some of the All Black side. I
say picking apart will be for hours if we do
the whole lot. But let's sit down with Liam and
Napien now and talk about the nature of the team.
He joins us. Now, good evening, Liam, Hey does reading
your piece as you do in the New Zealand and
held looking at the All Blacks and this is the
most interesting side of it, isn't it. No wingers are
(00:37):
pile of midfielders. How does this actually work? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome? Yeah? Great to be here? Does look?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's an interesting squad, very intriguing on a number of fronts,
and you've picked up on one there. Unbalanced on first glance,
isn't it? In the back line six midfielders seems very bloated.
There's four second fives among that group and only two
specialist wingers. You do have a lot of versatility within
the squad. Guys like Will Jordan, Rikowanny can all play wings,
(01:08):
so it's not like the All Blacks don't have really
high caliber options there. Ricojuani, of course started his career
on the wing. Will Jordan's played the vast majority of
his test career on the wing, so there is flexibility.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
But if you're an.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Ammonia Nadaura or Leroy Carter, who both of whom played
brilliantly for the Chiefs this year, that'd feel hard done by.
And then if you're a David Havili on the outside
looking in after seeing six midfielders selected, you'd be pretty
aggrieved as well.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
What does this say about wing stocks or More's the point?
The want for Scott Robertson to use players who can
cover many different positions. I don't know if this has
worked entirely well, especially when it comes to do wingers
and midfielders in the past. Are we satisfied with this?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It does evoke a few historical anxieties, doesn't it dark
when you think about putting square pigs and round holes.
Will getting a wee bit clever with playing players out
of position, particularly at World Cups. We won't go there
tonight and we keep everyone everyone's heart rate at a
certain level.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm old enough I lived through that. You cannot do
this to me again. But this is this? Is this
not a huge issue? Is this just the nature of
the size of squads and we just have to deal
with it.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Look, I think I would have liked to have seen
some more specialist wings in the squad.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You've only got Severe Reese and Caleb Clark.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And while there is that that flexibility there, I do
see it as a very specialized position. So I think
they are a bit lights in that departments. But when
it comes to the midfields, I do like the composition
of who they've picked. I like the fact that they
are picking big, powerful, destructive ball carriers to punch over
(02:59):
that game line. You've got Jordi Barrett, Quinte Pier and
Tavatavanaua who is an absolute tank both over the ball
and ball in hand. So it's a bit of an
experimental feel with guys like Tavia Tavanawa. Bring him in
see what he's capable of. But then you've got someone
like Quinta Pye who makes a comeback after three years
(03:22):
out of the All Blacks had that horrific knee injury
from the Dog Act from Darcy Swain, showed resilience and
was an absolute standout for the Chiefs this year. Very physical,
very dominant on the carry and on defense. So I
do like that departments, but I can't see them carrying
six midfielders for the whole season. So it is going
(03:46):
to be about taking your chances when they arrive.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So you talk about Rica Yuanni, you started out there.
Many people think that you can't just transform into a center,
you grow up in that position because it's such a
nuanced role. But he's coming and done it in All Black,
done reasonably well, pushing him out to the wing and maybe, oh,
do we see him reverting back to where he started off?
(04:09):
Is this maybe what the writing on the wall is.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I think that the All Blacks fell At the announcement yesterday,
we asked Scott Hansen and Scott Robertson about where they
see Tava tavannahwah and it is predominantly in the midfield
and as a second five. And this is a new
position for him. Largely, he's very raw in his transition
from the wing to the midfield. It's only happened this
(04:34):
year really with the Highlanders. So that is a bit
of a punt, particularly from a defensive point of view.
He might may be caught out, but he is a
point of difference. He is built like a tank, he
had the most turnovers in Super rugby bar no one
soubiously creefy was a freak, and Tava ta Nawa had
more turnovers.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So if you're.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Injecting a guy like that off the bench, there's a
bit of risk, but there is potentially a lot of upsides.
And just with Rico, I think he's been a center
for a long time now, he's learned position, but he
is under pressure from a guy like Billy Proctor, who
will see more game time this year than he did last.
And there's also Anton Lennard Brown in the squad, so
(05:17):
I think you will see Rico shift out to the
wing a lot more this season.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
International rugby is no place to learn your craft in
the midfield. As I said very nuance, second five center,
you've got to know what you're doing before you've even
done it. You can't grab the ball and hope and
pass that. There's a real problem here that he might
get hugely exposed in that role by opposition attacks. Do
(05:44):
you have that fear too? Am I just freaking out
for no reason?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It's a real risk to us. I think second five
you're a wee bit more protected than you are as
a center. As a center, there's so much more space
between you and your winger. You think about you know,
some of our best defensive backs over the years, they
have been centers, the Conrad Smiths of the world. So
your second is a bit more protected between your ten
(06:09):
and center.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
But look, I think what they'll do.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Is they'll bring taver Tavernao and I don't see them
playing him in the first Test, maybe not even the second.
Perhaps they'll bring him off the bench for the third test,
easeim and give them time. But there is undoubtedly an
element of risk. But if you don't give these guys
a chance, then you don't know. They could have picked
David Havilli. He's played thirty two Tests in the last
(06:35):
four years. They know what they're going to get. But
tav Taa has that X factor. He's a bit of
a wild card. So they're prepared to take a bit
of a punt and the hope that he does take
the test rugby and provides that point of difference.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
As far as the rest of the squad is concerned them.
Napier and his herald guard joins us. There is also
some question marks over some of the decisions made when
he's leaving some of his so called mates, as the
media often describe it as out of the Crusader's side,
out of that lineup. What this says to me, though,
(07:10):
is he is willing to He's willing to throw the
dice a bit. In his second year, he feels like
he has the space to actually do that and he can.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah, look does I think in his first year Scott
Robinson was very, very conservative in his selections. They blooded
ten rookies last year, the All Blacks. But when push
comes to shove, when the pressure came on, they backed
experience in every possible tight selection call. And what you're
seeing now is the willingness to be more brave and
(07:45):
bold and I think a clearer picture of how they
want to play. What's important to them, and that really
is about go forward power, a bit of versatility. But
in those type selections you talk about Ethan Blackheader was
a massive surprise for pretty much everyone that he is
not in this squad, not purely because he's from the Crusaders,
(08:08):
but he has been favored through successive all Black regimes
back to Ian Foster and last year.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
He's a guy that's had massive injury troubles. But what's.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Ethan is his lack of punch, his ball carrying. He
doesn't have the same post contact meters as a guy
like some of Penny Female or a Wallace to Titi
and the All Blacks have also strangely only selected five
loose forwards, and they're prepared to you Scott Barrett and
to Puviai as blindside cover. I think they were looking
(08:43):
at a guy like Simon Parker the Chiefs lose forward,
but he's out.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For at least the next month with an ankle injury.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
So it is worth keeping in mind that the squad's
thirty two man squad is only for the French series,
and that the All Blacks will pick another squad, So
I think you'll see further change. But you're right some
big calls. You know that there were accusations. I was
one of them that in some of the tight selections,
(09:10):
I felt the All Blacks did favor, you know, some
of the former Crusaders, and I think we saw that
with guys like Schaefi Harckey coming in as a training
partner last year. But that's certainly not the case with
this squad. They've left out George Bauer, who was strong
in the final series, Lucy had prop and picked Ollie
Norris from the Chiefs. Ethan Blackhead has been cut David
(09:30):
Heavily another example. So they have certain You certainly can't
accuse the selectors of favoring the Crusaders in this picture.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And anything else. Selection wives that struck you as a
little oddly and nape you and litill come out who's
been picked or who hasn't been picked? Something else you
can look at.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I think injuries have played a bit of a factor.
You've got guys like No Armor and Peter Lukeye carrying injuries.
But Brody McAllister was a real bolter, the Chiefs hooker,
former Crusader. He moved up to Hamilton this year and
had a real impact both starting and coming off the bench.
Thoughts having invested in I think twenty two to twenty
(10:10):
three year old George Bell last year that the All
Blacks would have continued that theme. But they've been impressed
by Brody McAllister, so that was a surprise. I'm really
intrigued to see how they bring through these rookies. Fabian
Holland is another one who everyone expected to be in
that squad's he became eligible last year the first Dutch
(10:33):
born All Black and I think he's a guy that
will make a real impact and I'm really happy to
see do see Carefi in there a real reward for perseverance.
He was first in the All Blacks going back the
best part of five years and has gone away as
matured in the leadership roles with Wellington and the Hurricanes
(10:53):
and been a real standout for them this year, particularly
in that turnover capacity. So when you think about the
composition of the bench bench stars, and you're looking at
potentially bringing guys like Carrefi, Tava tav Nahwa, Fabian Holand
off the bench, there's a bit of a new emerging
breeds there that could change the dynamic of how the
(11:13):
All Blecks finish games. And that's something they really need
and are looking to target because the four games they
lost last year, they led them all at halftime.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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