The disappointment for Auckland FC over the weekend is going to linger for a long time.
The A-League men's premiership winners fell at the season's penultimate hurdle on Saturday when they lost to Melbourne Victory.
Former A-League referee Matthew Breeze joined Piney to discuss the impact of the disallowed goal that left coach Steve Corica fuming.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A moment of major controversy in the A League Football
Semi final second leg between Auckland FC and Melbourne Victory
on Saturday night at go Media.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Duncan got a double fisted punch my, it's gonna keep that.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
In, Rogerson homes going a hair.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The logan Rogerson and those in the cloud don't check it,
but that ball had gone behind a fantasy before Gisue
of my mind was able to get across him, or
at bit behind.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
That's the suggestion. Now that's king has clipped the wings
of malt Smart. The first moment that we need to
check is whether or not because you MoMA keeps the
ball and that from this angle looks okay. We can
see the line underneath the ball. The replaced chess gone
up on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
The VIC screen.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now the question is, even though is a touch on
the line, does it then go out when it's in
the air.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That is what has been adjudged.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So Maas kept it in, but it has drifted behind
before coming back in goal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Will not stand here? Didn't stand logan Rogerson look to
have scored for Auckland f C. That would have leveled
the tie up at two all, but the gold is allowed.
Gauzuma mis cross are judge to have gone out of
play before before curling back in to the field of
play and onto the head of Logan Rogerson. Matthew Brees
was an A League referee for the first sixth seasons
(01:45):
of the competition's existence. He was the first match official
to control one hundred A League games and was a
two time A League Referee of the Year. He was
also a FIFA referee, controlling many international matches Confederations and
Asian Cups, Club World Cups and Age Group World Cups,
and still a very keen observer of the game of football.
(02:07):
He joins us, Now, Matthew, with your referees eyes, let's
start with that. Did you think the ball had gone out?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Well, mate, it's very hard to tell, because obviously I
was looking at a video clip that wasn't directly in
line with the goal line posted on Twitter. It's kind
of small, but I found it interesting that Stevie Crocker,
in his postmatch press conference was pretty upset and he
seemed adamant that the ball hadn't crossed the line. A
lot of the commentary on x and social media was
(02:38):
saying that it had clearly across the line, and I
had a bit of a look at it and frame
by frame and as you follow the ball, mate, I
don't think it's that clear that the whole of the
ball went over the whole of the line, So mister
Crocker might have an argument.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
There was the assistant referee in good position. You can
see him and the clip that you're referencing. He seems
to be right alongside the corner flag, albeit on the
other side is the ar in good position.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Was in perfect position. I had to look at that
as well. He's directly in line with the goal line.
You can see. He was in a fully concentrated state,
totally concentrating on the situation, and in his opinion, the
ball went over the goal line and that's why the
flag went up. I thought the flag went up a
little bit late. I think in that situation, if you're
clear that it goes over the line, it might be
(03:27):
a good idea to get it up nice and early,
and that way you're kind of not ruling out a goal.
Referee might blow his whistle before the header even goes in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is there then in the delay of the flag going up,
you know, some room for more doubt to festa. Is
it perhaps possible that he's not one hundred percent sure
that it's gone out, given the fact he didn't put
it his flag up straight away.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Look, I don't know what the instructions were. Maybe pre
match the referee kind of said, you know, make sure
you're certain, wait and see what happens, that sort of stuff.
But I think when you do delay your decision a
little bit like that, you do give the players, the crowd,
the media people following at home, a little bit of
(04:14):
room to doubt. We always say, if you certain, get
the flag up nice and early, or blow the whistle
nice and quickly, and it gives the impression of certainty,
and it gives everyone clarity about your decision.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So we've got Var now, of course. And so in
terms of the process that was followed there, it seemed
to be, you know, play went on pretty quickly afterwards.
It wasn't a long long delay for Var to have
a look. Was the correct process followed in your view
by Var?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Look, as far as I'm aware, it was followed. Obviously,
I retired before Var come into it, so I'm not
totally across all of the minutia of how it's done,
But I think the test is was it a clear
and obvious error? Obviously there were no or I haven't
seen any vision or any footage of camera angle directly
on the goal line, So if they were work looking
(05:06):
from a kind of a camera towards the center of
the field, it would be probably difficult to say that
it was a clear and obvious error. So I think,
you know, unless we're going to have cameras on every
sideline and every goal line like we see in Europe
and the big competitions over there, you're still going to
have to rely upon humans to make decisions.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Are you a fan of VAR?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Don't start me on R mate. Look, I think it's
got a place. I think it's necessary. I think there
was so much controversy and disquiet about referees decisions prior
to VAR. I think the game demanded it, and once
you start with VR, you kind of can't turn back.
(05:49):
And now it's just a matter of getting it right,
managing you know, the decisions that come from VAR. I
think it's here to stay. Obviously, it can be done better.
There's room for improvements. It can be done a little
bit quicker, but it's still at the end of the day,
you're relying upon human error humans to help the referee
in the VR.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Booth, and in this case, as you quite rightly pointed
out before, you're relying on camera angles and you know
var doesn't have the camera angles that would unequivocally say
whether that ball was in or out. Then they have
to say, look, no obvious era has been made here,
we stick with the on field decision. There's huge emotion
wrapped around this though, man, as you know, I mean,
having been in the middle of Grand finals and really
(06:30):
you know, passionate football matches. How is a referee do
you manage those emotions from the other participants.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Well, you've just got to stay detached. You're there to
do a job. You know, I can see that the
system referee and the referee appeared to be totally concentrating
on task at hand. You know, It's funny. You can
be out in the middle. You can have fifty or
seventy thousand people screaming and baying for your blood. You
don't really hear them because if you're focused and you're
really locked into what you've got to do. You don't
hear the outside noise, and that's kind of how you
(07:02):
do it. You just really concentrate and you don't really
hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And you might not be able to answer this in
terms of process. But would you expect that John Moss,
the head of a league referees, would be in touch
with Auckland FC to clarify the ruling or would he
wait for, you know, communication in the other direction? What
do you think might have happened in the time since.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Yeah, look, I don't know. Maybe Stevie Coyriker picked up
the phone and called him and demanded Tomansers. Maybe John
just kind of said, you know what, I'll just let
it kind of blow over. But obviously, you know, Auckland
have had a great season. They've been a real draw
card and a real addition to the league, and it was,
you know, in some ways unfortunate that they went out
(07:43):
of the tie in the manner that they did. To
be honest, I don't think Steve Crocker would be looking
for an explanation. The time is gone. He's probably on
holidays by now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, probably right. Actually, just one one, just going back
to it. I watched I've watched it like you have
a lot of times on the angles that are available
both in the official television broadcast and a couple of
ones on x as well. I do note that when
the ball leaves gij Ma MAI's foot, Jack Duncan, who's
in goal for Melbourne Victory, just momentarily watches the flight
of the ball and stops as if to say, okay,
(08:12):
that's gone at I'm going to the risk of the blast.
We're all we're going to have a goal kick here.
Do you take notice of the players and situations like that.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
We actually do so quite often, especially when you've got
to throw in and you're not really sure which way
it's going. It might come off a couple of feet
very quickly. Sometimes you watch the reactions of the players,
little subtle body language, which player goes to pick up
the ball first, which one, you know, calls for it.
Sometimes they call for it because they know that the
throwing is going against them, So we do look at
(08:42):
body language like that. In that situation, maybe the goalkeepers
just you know, watching the ball go up and I'm
not sure whether we actually stopped because he thought it
went out, but of course you know he would have
had the net in his way, he would have had
the goalpost in his way as well, So I'm not
sure you can take too much from that, but yes,
we one hundred percent look at body language of the players,
(09:02):
all right, man.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I will appreciate you taking the time for a chant.
Like I say, we'll never know. Thanks for wrapping some
context around this discussion for us from a referees point
of view. Matthew Breese former top level referee at A
league level and FEFA level two time a leg Referee
of the Year.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A moment of major controversy in the A League Football
Semi final second leg between Auckland FC and Melbourne Victory
on Saturday night at go Media.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Duncan got a double fisted punch my, it's gonna keep that.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
In, Rogerson homes going a hair.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The logan Rogerson and those in the cloud don't check it,
but that ball had gone behind a fantasy before Gisue
of my mind was able to get across him, or
at bit behind.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
That's the suggestion. Now that's king has clipped the wings
of malt Smart. The first moment that we need to
check is whether or not because you MoMA keeps the
ball and that from this angle looks okay. We can
see the line underneath the ball. The replaced chess gone
up on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
The VIC screen.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now the question is, even though is a touch on
the line, does it then go out when it's in
the air.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That is what has been adjudged.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So Maas kept it in, but it has drifted behind
before coming back in goal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Will not stand here? Didn't stand logan Rogerson look to
have scored for Auckland f C. That would have leveled
the tie up at two all, but the gold is allowed.
Gauzuma mis cross are judge to have gone out of
play before before curling back in to the field of
play and onto the head of Logan Rogerson. Matthew Brees
was an A League referee for the first sixth seasons
(01:45):
of the competition's existence. He was the first match official
to control one hundred A League games and was a
two time A League Referee of the Year. He was
also a FIFA referee, controlling many international matches Confederations and
Asian Cups, Club World Cups and Age Group World Cups,
and still a very keen observer of the game of football.
(02:07):
He joins us, Now, Matthew, with your referees eyes, let's
start with that. Did you think the ball had gone out?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Well, mate, it's very hard to tell, because obviously I
was looking at a video clip that wasn't directly in
line with the goal line posted on Twitter. It's kind
of small, but I found it interesting that Stevie Crocker,
in his postmatch press conference was pretty upset and he
seemed adamant that the ball hadn't crossed the line. A
lot of the commentary on x and social media was
(02:38):
saying that it had clearly across the line, and I
had a bit of a look at it and frame
by frame and as you follow the ball, mate, I
don't think it's that clear that the whole of the
ball went over the whole of the line, So mister
Crocker might have an argument.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
There was the assistant referee in good position. You can
see him and the clip that you're referencing. He seems
to be right alongside the corner flag, albeit on the
other side is the ar in good position.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Was in perfect position. I had to look at that
as well. He's directly in line with the goal line.
You can see. He was in a fully concentrated state,
totally concentrating on the situation, and in his opinion, the
ball went over the goal line and that's why the
flag went up. I thought the flag went up a
little bit late. I think in that situation, if you're
clear that it goes over the line, it might be
(03:27):
a good idea to get it up nice and early,
and that way you're kind of not ruling out a goal.
Referee might blow his whistle before the header even goes in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is there then in the delay of the flag going up,
you know, some room for more doubt to festa. Is
it perhaps possible that he's not one hundred percent sure
that it's gone out, given the fact he didn't put
it his flag up straight away.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Look, I don't know what the instructions were. Maybe pre
match the referee kind of said, you know, make sure
you're certain, wait and see what happens, that sort of stuff.
But I think when you do delay your decision a
little bit like that, you do give the players, the crowd,
the media people following at home, a little bit of
(04:14):
room to doubt. We always say, if you certain, get
the flag up nice and early, or blow the whistle
nice and quickly, and it gives the impression of certainty,
and it gives everyone clarity about your decision.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So we've got Var now, of course. And so in
terms of the process that was followed there, it seemed
to be, you know, play went on pretty quickly afterwards.
It wasn't a long long delay for Var to have
a look. Was the correct process followed in your view
by Var?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Look, as far as I'm aware, it was followed. Obviously,
I retired before Var come into it, so I'm not
totally across all of the minutia of how it's done,
But I think the test is was it a clear
and obvious error? Obviously there were no or I haven't
seen any vision or any footage of camera angle directly
on the goal line, So if they were work looking
(05:06):
from a kind of a camera towards the center of
the field, it would be probably difficult to say that
it was a clear and obvious error. So I think,
you know, unless we're going to have cameras on every
sideline and every goal line like we see in Europe
and the big competitions over there, you're still going to
have to rely upon humans to make decisions.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Are you a fan of VAR?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Don't start me on R mate. Look, I think it's
got a place. I think it's necessary. I think there
was so much controversy and disquiet about referees decisions prior
to VAR. I think the game demanded it, and once
you start with VR, you kind of can't turn back.
(05:49):
And now it's just a matter of getting it right,
managing you know, the decisions that come from VAR. I
think it's here to stay. Obviously, it can be done better.
There's room for improvements. It can be done a little
bit quicker, but it's still at the end of the day,
you're relying upon human error humans to help the referee
in the VR.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Booth, and in this case, as you quite rightly pointed
out before, you're relying on camera angles and you know
var doesn't have the camera angles that would unequivocally say
whether that ball was in or out. Then they have
to say, look, no obvious era has been made here,
we stick with the on field decision. There's huge emotion
wrapped around this though, man, as you know, I mean,
having been in the middle of Grand finals and really
(06:30):
you know, passionate football matches. How is a referee do
you manage those emotions from the other participants.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Well, you've just got to stay detached. You're there to
do a job. You know, I can see that the
system referee and the referee appeared to be totally concentrating
on task at hand. You know, It's funny. You can
be out in the middle. You can have fifty or
seventy thousand people screaming and baying for your blood. You
don't really hear them because if you're focused and you're
really locked into what you've got to do. You don't
hear the outside noise, and that's kind of how you
(07:02):
do it. You just really concentrate and you don't really
hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And you might not be able to answer this in
terms of process. But would you expect that John Moss,
the head of a league referees, would be in touch
with Auckland FC to clarify the ruling or would he
wait for, you know, communication in the other direction? What
do you think might have happened in the time since.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Yeah, look, I don't know. Maybe Stevie Coyriker picked up
the phone and called him and demanded Tomansers. Maybe John
just kind of said, you know what, I'll just let
it kind of blow over. But obviously, you know, Auckland
have had a great season. They've been a real draw
card and a real addition to the league, and it was,
you know, in some ways unfortunate that they went out
(07:43):
of the tie in the manner that they did. To
be honest, I don't think Steve Crocker would be looking
for an explanation. The time is gone. He's probably on
holidays by now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, probably right. Actually, just one one, just going back
to it. I watched I've watched it like you have
a lot of times on the angles that are available
both in the official television broadcast and a couple of
ones on x as well. I do note that when
the ball leaves gij Ma MAI's foot, Jack Duncan, who's
in goal for Melbourne Victory, just momentarily watches the flight
of the ball and stops as if to say, okay,
(08:12):
that's gone at I'm going to the risk of the blast.
We're all we're going to have a goal kick here.
Do you take notice of the players and situations like that.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
We actually do so quite often, especially when you've got
to throw in and you're not really sure which way
it's going. It might come off a couple of feet
very quickly. Sometimes you watch the reactions of the players,
little subtle body language, which player goes to pick up
the ball first, which one, you know, calls for it.
Sometimes they call for it because they know that the
throwing is going against them, So we do look at
(08:42):
body language like that. In that situation, maybe the goalkeepers
just you know, watching the ball go up and I'm
not sure whether we actually stopped because he thought it
went out, but of course you know he would have
had the net in his way, he would have had
the goalpost in his way as well, So I'm not
sure you can take too much from that, but yes,
we one hundred percent look at body language of the players,
(09:02):
all right, man.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I will appreciate you taking the time for a chant.
Like I say, we'll never know. Thanks for wrapping some
context around this discussion for us from a referees point
of view. Matthew Breese former top level referee at A
league level and FEFA level two time a leg Referee
of the Year.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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