October 8, 2025 • 11 mins
The international unions of New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, France, Italy, England, Ireland and Scotland have banded together against the proposed R360 competition, stating that any player that signs to play in the new competition will forfeit their right to compete internationally for their country.
This is despite R360 officials stating that all competitors will be available for international test windows throughout the competitions seasons.
D'Arcy spoke with the head of the NZ Rugby Players association, Rob Nichol, to find out the latest.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
R three sixty officials were going, all competitors will be
available for international test windows. It's fine throughout the seaway.
They didn't count on the fact that maybe the countries
didn't want their players involved in that competition we're interested
in and they weren't allowed to play anyway. Big statement
came out and since they said, we welcome new investment,
innovation and rugby support ideas that helped the game evolve
(00:35):
and reach new audiences, but any new competition must strengthen
the sport as a whole, not fragment or weaken it.
You're wrong here. This is just a blatant cash grab
for the players that go, which is already blatant enough
when it comes to rugby. They can do all sorts
of things, but I don't believe that R three sixty
(00:57):
give a rat's backside about the health of rugby union
from the grassroots level up to the superstar level. They're
just using it to hide the fact that, yeah, some
of their decisions are regrettable, i'd say in Saudi and
what they do the sport washing, that's all they're doing.
(01:18):
But anyway, they're having a crack. So what we're going
to do now is talk with Rob Nickel about this
more than Rugby Players Association actually think is happening. He's
going to tell us what he knows about the competition,
what questions are left and answered. The list goes on
and I caught up with the saft noon ay, Rob,
(01:40):
I trust your well. I know you're good, You're always smiling.
Great to have you on board, right Rugby three sixty.
There's been a lot of talk around this. There have
been eight unions that have come out and said if
you indulge in this, you're no longer playing international rugby,
which is all well and good, but the players perspective
extraordinarily important, because without them this doesn't get any traction.
(02:04):
What do the Rugby Players Association have to say about
this brave new world?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, Look, it's been around for a bit longer than
people realize, probably a couple of years. And if it's
not three six there, it's a new seven's competition, or
it'll be another competition somewhere. I think if you step
back a little bit, the first things first, eye lock
and go. You know, it's great that people with money
look at rugby and see an opportunity to invest and
want to be a part of it because that's a
good thing for the sport. Then I kind of say, well,
(02:33):
why would they want to put their money in and
do something different. It must be because they don't think
what has been done is good. And that's not a
bad thing from the playoffs spect because particularly when we
look at the Northern Hemisphere, we look at their club
game and how much rugby the guys am to play
in our crowded the season structure is you know, this
is quite a disruptor what they're proposing basically fully fledged.
(02:54):
It's a sixteen game competition where they're saying they will
three players up to play international rugby, particularly in the
Northern Hemisphere, which is quite a different model to what
happens now. So it's causing every one to have a
good thing. And then when you look at the money
that they're talking about, it's really significant, you know, it's
really significant, more money in terms of investing in players
(03:16):
and coaches and competitions than has been done before in
the game. And so you look at all that and
you say, well, it's not a bad thing that people
are interested in, they're coming along and create and impact,
But then the reality is of will it come off,
will it actually happen? And then the bigger picture for
the game is good for the game, and there's just
(03:37):
a lot of question marks around all those sort of things.
So from a player association perspective, we don't think it's
a bad thing, but there are a lot of questions
that we've asked the three sixty crew and that we've
put on the table at the players that haven't been answered.
That you leave a lot of doubt and uncertainty around
where this is all going to end up, or if
a player or a coach is looking to commit to it,
(03:59):
what they're actually committing to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Right, So what are those questions, Rob that begsdad question?
What are you looking at? Primarily what are your sunds
for the players and for their coaches that might get engaged.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Well well down for asking the question, because every time
we've talked about this, no one's actually asked us, well,
what would from a plaza ang or what are you
interested in? And I suppose it's quite all encompassing, you know,
for a new competition like this, the first thing is like,
who's behind it. You know, what's their rugby pedigree, what's
their rugby knowledge, what's their sports knowledge, what's the level
of capital they have, what it help, how big a pockets,
(04:33):
how realistic what they're putting forward, can they fund it?
What's the business plan? So I've asked all those questions
and we've got a few answers back, But there's a
lot of a lot of unknowns in those kind of areas.
Who's going to own the teams, where are the team's
going to be based, what's the competition structure. We understand that,
but we don't know where the players are going to
(04:53):
be playing. We don't know their travel arrangements. We don't
know a lot of stuff that you would want to
know if you're a player. You don't know who your
coaches are going to be, who your high performance staff
are going to be. We don't know the names the teams.
We don't know whether the team's going to represent regions
or countries or areas. You know, there's just a lot
of those kind of questions can't be answered. So if
(05:14):
you're a player looking at this, you're like, Okay, I'm
kind of committing to a competition, but I kind of
don't quite know what I'm committing to, and so you're
taking a bit of a leap of faith. And then
there's the there's a contractual stuff. You know, what's my insurance,
what's my wage, what's my guarantees? I leave all the
kind of things that are enorbous and frankly looking at
(05:35):
a job would want to know. And in some respects
they've been quite clear on what they intend it to
look like, but the actual specifics they're still looking to
nail down. So once again, quite a few questions in.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That kind of space comfortable, sorry, Rob, that they're actually
going about it. Answer these questions not just like pencil
the mem but like write it out and so you
know exactly what's going on. Because there's the head of
the Rugby Players Association. Your first point of care is
the athletes, and these are a number of opening to
answer questions.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Aren't they one dred percent? And what we have been
saying to the plats is a lot If this is
something you're genuinely interested as with all overseas opportunities or
any opportunities, first of all, make sure you're getting good
independent advice and where they're if you want some support,
but you need good advice around it, which any player
looking to go to Japan or France or England, we're
(06:24):
well set up to cater for that. We're very connected
to our accredited agents and am working with the plans
on an individual basis. We're all sharing information, so get
good at vice. Secondly, eyes wide open and the reality
is we don't have a lot of answers to those questions.
So if you're going to go with this, you're taking
quite a big punt. And obviously the announcement today, but
also common sense dictates, you know, if you want to
(06:47):
play for your country, then you're if you're a New
Zealand plant, it's no different than playing in Japan or France.
You're not eligible to the All Blacks or all the
Black fans anymore, so you're giving away international rugby. So
it's just it just depends on the plans. Their age
is stage where they're at. You know, if it's a
practical example, if it's a player who's played Super Rugua,
(07:09):
we played for the All Backs, maybe gone to Japan,
maybe played three or four years up there, and they're
looking and saying, do I resign with Japan? Do I
head back to New Zealand. Do I go over to
France or the UK and then three sixty come along
and you're like, or do I just do something completely
different like this? And then when you look at the
money they're offering, it's really significant. So there will be players,
and there are players who have said, you know what, actually,
(07:31):
at this stage of my career or given where I'm at,
I'm happy to take the risk and I'll take a
punt that this might get up and running for what's
on the table and the chance to be part of
something new, even though I might be potentially committing to
something that I don't really quite know what I'm committing to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
The reaction from all of these unions around saying no
more internationals for you if you dare a sign on
the line, that suggests to me that they are very
worried and this is a clear and present danger and
they're not just brushing it off as something that may
or may not happen. I think they are a little concern,
don't they.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Rob Yeah. I think when we look at it, we
look at a situation where the game is governed through
a federator sporting model, and we all understand that World Rugby,
National Unions, et cetera. And when you get an outside
disruptor come in, it's a natural thing to be protective
of what you have and so to be fear that.
(08:26):
The initial reaction was open doors, let's understand this, let's engauge,
let's work together and see what might happen. And then
and then I think concerns started to raise similar to
what we've been talking about. It's like, so they're basically
just going to come in and contract a whole lot
of players from the English Premiership and not contribute a lot.
Why would we want to support that? And then I
(08:48):
think National Unions has started asking the same questions we've asked,
and they haven't got answers back. And now what's happening
is a lot of I suppose you could call it
an expression of interests have gone out to players and
coaches and some players and people have committed, and there
was a timeline where they're looking for people to commit
legal in the next month or so. And I think
(09:09):
the unions have got to the point and said, well,
you were going to ask to be sanctioned by World
rug in November. You've withdrawn that obligation. You're not a
sancsored competition. You're now asking players and coaches to sign
to you and commit to you, and a number of
those players are currently playing for us or we would
like to see them continue to play for us. We're
now actually going to say something and we're not happy.
(09:31):
And you know it's fair. It's fair. They're basically saying,
you haven't answered our questions. You're coming along contracting the
whole lot of people. That's fine, we can't necessarily stop
you from doing that, but we're not going to sit
on the sidelines and be quiet. We're actually going to
make it very clear that you haven't commitced us. You're
the right in their view, you're good for the game.
You haven't answered a lot of our questions. So until
(09:52):
you get to that point, we're going to take a position,
which is a player or coach or whatever committing to
this particular competition won't be playing for their country or
eligible to play for their country. And it's a fair
position to take, and I think it's an appropriateness.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The line is in the sand and on that Rob
michaelhead of US in a Rugby Players Association, as always,
thank you for your time and your words. I feel
like I know slightly more than I did my teen
minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It's funny because I feel I haven't really read anything.
I don't know that I have the answers you're looking for,
and I don't quite know where it's going to end up.
But I you know, I don't. From a New Zealand perspective,
Can I just say, Darcy, it's fine where a thousand
New Zealand rugby we're over at early. We know exactly
what we're doing, which is status quo. Work really hard
on what we're doing it and doing as well as possible.
(10:40):
You can only control what you can control. We already
have a very clear position and policy on if you
want to play for the Black Ferns or the All
Blacks and our national teams, you need to be contracted
and based in New Zealand. And we're very in a
very good position in terms of securing in our top
male talent over the next few years. So we know
what we're about. No one's panicking. We're just business is usual,
(11:01):
stay focused and work hard. But if some of our players,
for example, that are overseas or that want to move
on from New Zealander, and they commit to this particular
league and they take the risk and take the punt,
we'll always he be back. They'll always be part of us,
and they'll always be welcome back once they finish playing
if they want to come back. So it's it's we're
treating it kind of like a Japan league or a
French league or an English league. To be farefully honest,
(11:23):
that's business is usual for us.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
R three sixty officials were going, all competitors will be
available for international test windows. It's fine throughout the seaway.
They didn't count on the fact that maybe the countries
didn't want their players involved in that competition we're interested
in and they weren't allowed to play anyway. Big statement
came out and since they said, we welcome new investment,
innovation and rugby support ideas that helped the game evolve
(00:35):
and reach new audiences, but any new competition must strengthen
the sport as a whole, not fragment or weaken it.
You're wrong here. This is just a blatant cash grab
for the players that go, which is already blatant enough
when it comes to rugby. They can do all sorts
of things, but I don't believe that R three sixty
(00:57):
give a rat's backside about the health of rugby union
from the grassroots level up to the superstar level. They're
just using it to hide the fact that, yeah, some
of their decisions are regrettable, i'd say in Saudi and
what they do the sport washing, that's all they're doing.
(01:18):
But anyway, they're having a crack. So what we're going
to do now is talk with Rob Nickel about this
more than Rugby Players Association actually think is happening. He's
going to tell us what he knows about the competition,
what questions are left and answered. The list goes on
and I caught up with the saft noon ay, Rob,
(01:40):
I trust your well. I know you're good, You're always smiling.
Great to have you on board, right Rugby three sixty.
There's been a lot of talk around this. There have
been eight unions that have come out and said if
you indulge in this, you're no longer playing international rugby,
which is all well and good, but the players perspective
extraordinarily important, because without them this doesn't get any traction.
(02:04):
What do the Rugby Players Association have to say about
this brave new world?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, Look, it's been around for a bit longer than
people realize, probably a couple of years. And if it's
not three six there, it's a new seven's competition, or
it'll be another competition somewhere. I think if you step
back a little bit, the first things first, eye lock
and go. You know, it's great that people with money
look at rugby and see an opportunity to invest and
want to be a part of it because that's a
good thing for the sport. Then I kind of say, well,
(02:33):
why would they want to put their money in and
do something different. It must be because they don't think
what has been done is good. And that's not a
bad thing from the playoffs spect because particularly when we
look at the Northern Hemisphere, we look at their club
game and how much rugby the guys am to play
in our crowded the season structure is you know, this
is quite a disruptor what they're proposing basically fully fledged.
(02:54):
It's a sixteen game competition where they're saying they will
three players up to play international rugby, particularly in the
Northern Hemisphere, which is quite a different model to what
happens now. So it's causing every one to have a
good thing. And then when you look at the money
that they're talking about, it's really significant, you know, it's
really significant, more money in terms of investing in players
(03:16):
and coaches and competitions than has been done before in
the game. And so you look at all that and
you say, well, it's not a bad thing that people
are interested in, they're coming along and create and impact,
But then the reality is of will it come off,
will it actually happen? And then the bigger picture for
the game is good for the game, and there's just
(03:37):
a lot of question marks around all those sort of things.
So from a player association perspective, we don't think it's
a bad thing, but there are a lot of questions
that we've asked the three sixty crew and that we've
put on the table at the players that haven't been answered.
That you leave a lot of doubt and uncertainty around
where this is all going to end up, or if
a player or a coach is looking to commit to it,
(03:59):
what they're actually committing to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Right, So what are those questions, Rob that begsdad question?
What are you looking at? Primarily what are your sunds
for the players and for their coaches that might get engaged.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Well well down for asking the question, because every time
we've talked about this, no one's actually asked us, well,
what would from a plaza ang or what are you
interested in? And I suppose it's quite all encompassing, you know,
for a new competition like this, the first thing is like,
who's behind it. You know, what's their rugby pedigree, what's
their rugby knowledge, what's their sports knowledge, what's the level
of capital they have, what it help, how big a pockets,
(04:33):
how realistic what they're putting forward, can they fund it?
What's the business plan? So I've asked all those questions
and we've got a few answers back, But there's a
lot of a lot of unknowns in those kind of areas.
Who's going to own the teams, where are the team's
going to be based, what's the competition structure. We understand that,
but we don't know where the players are going to
(04:53):
be playing. We don't know their travel arrangements. We don't
know a lot of stuff that you would want to
know if you're a player. You don't know who your
coaches are going to be, who your high performance staff
are going to be. We don't know the names the teams.
We don't know whether the team's going to represent regions
or countries or areas. You know, there's just a lot
of those kind of questions can't be answered. So if
(05:14):
you're a player looking at this, you're like, Okay, I'm
kind of committing to a competition, but I kind of
don't quite know what I'm committing to, and so you're
taking a bit of a leap of faith. And then
there's the there's a contractual stuff. You know, what's my insurance,
what's my wage, what's my guarantees? I leave all the
kind of things that are enorbous and frankly looking at
(05:35):
a job would want to know. And in some respects
they've been quite clear on what they intend it to
look like, but the actual specifics they're still looking to
nail down. So once again, quite a few questions in.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That kind of space comfortable, sorry, Rob, that they're actually
going about it. Answer these questions not just like pencil
the mem but like write it out and so you
know exactly what's going on. Because there's the head of
the Rugby Players Association. Your first point of care is
the athletes, and these are a number of opening to
answer questions.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Aren't they one dred percent? And what we have been
saying to the plats is a lot If this is
something you're genuinely interested as with all overseas opportunities or
any opportunities, first of all, make sure you're getting good
independent advice and where they're if you want some support,
but you need good advice around it, which any player
looking to go to Japan or France or England, we're
(06:24):
well set up to cater for that. We're very connected
to our accredited agents and am working with the plans
on an individual basis. We're all sharing information, so get
good at vice. Secondly, eyes wide open and the reality
is we don't have a lot of answers to those questions.
So if you're going to go with this, you're taking
quite a big punt. And obviously the announcement today, but
also common sense dictates, you know, if you want to
(06:47):
play for your country, then you're if you're a New
Zealand plant, it's no different than playing in Japan or France.
You're not eligible to the All Blacks or all the
Black fans anymore, so you're giving away international rugby. So
it's just it just depends on the plans. Their age
is stage where they're at. You know, if it's a
practical example, if it's a player who's played Super Rugua,
(07:09):
we played for the All Backs, maybe gone to Japan,
maybe played three or four years up there, and they're
looking and saying, do I resign with Japan? Do I
head back to New Zealand. Do I go over to
France or the UK and then three sixty come along
and you're like, or do I just do something completely
different like this? And then when you look at the
money they're offering, it's really significant. So there will be players,
and there are players who have said, you know what, actually,
(07:31):
at this stage of my career or given where I'm at,
I'm happy to take the risk and I'll take a
punt that this might get up and running for what's
on the table and the chance to be part of
something new, even though I might be potentially committing to
something that I don't really quite know what I'm committing to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
The reaction from all of these unions around saying no
more internationals for you if you dare a sign on
the line, that suggests to me that they are very
worried and this is a clear and present danger and
they're not just brushing it off as something that may
or may not happen. I think they are a little concern,
don't they.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Rob Yeah. I think when we look at it, we
look at a situation where the game is governed through
a federator sporting model, and we all understand that World Rugby,
National Unions, et cetera. And when you get an outside
disruptor come in, it's a natural thing to be protective
of what you have and so to be fear that.
(08:26):
The initial reaction was open doors, let's understand this, let's engauge,
let's work together and see what might happen. And then
and then I think concerns started to raise similar to
what we've been talking about. It's like, so they're basically
just going to come in and contract a whole lot
of players from the English Premiership and not contribute a lot.
Why would we want to support that? And then I
(08:48):
think National Unions has started asking the same questions we've asked,
and they haven't got answers back. And now what's happening
is a lot of I suppose you could call it
an expression of interests have gone out to players and
coaches and some players and people have committed, and there
was a timeline where they're looking for people to commit
legal in the next month or so. And I think
(09:09):
the unions have got to the point and said, well,
you were going to ask to be sanctioned by World
rug in November. You've withdrawn that obligation. You're not a
sancsored competition. You're now asking players and coaches to sign
to you and commit to you, and a number of
those players are currently playing for us or we would
like to see them continue to play for us. We're
now actually going to say something and we're not happy.
(09:31):
And you know it's fair. It's fair. They're basically saying,
you haven't answered our questions. You're coming along contracting the
whole lot of people. That's fine, we can't necessarily stop
you from doing that, but we're not going to sit
on the sidelines and be quiet. We're actually going to
make it very clear that you haven't commitced us. You're
the right in their view, you're good for the game.
You haven't answered a lot of our questions. So until
(09:52):
you get to that point, we're going to take a position,
which is a player or coach or whatever committing to
this particular competition won't be playing for their country or
eligible to play for their country. And it's a fair
position to take, and I think it's an appropriateness.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The line is in the sand and on that Rob
michaelhead of US in a Rugby Players Association, as always,
thank you for your time and your words. I feel
like I know slightly more than I did my teen
minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It's funny because I feel I haven't really read anything.
I don't know that I have the answers you're looking for,
and I don't quite know where it's going to end up.
But I you know, I don't. From a New Zealand perspective,
Can I just say, Darcy, it's fine where a thousand
New Zealand rugby we're over at early. We know exactly
what we're doing, which is status quo. Work really hard
on what we're doing it and doing as well as possible.
(10:40):
You can only control what you can control. We already
have a very clear position and policy on if you
want to play for the Black Ferns or the All
Blacks and our national teams, you need to be contracted
and based in New Zealand. And we're very in a
very good position in terms of securing in our top
male talent over the next few years. So we know
what we're about. No one's panicking. We're just business is usual,
(11:01):
stay focused and work hard. But if some of our players,
for example, that are overseas or that want to move
on from New Zealander, and they commit to this particular
league and they take the risk and take the punt,
we'll always he be back. They'll always be part of us,
and they'll always be welcome back once they finish playing
if they want to come back. So it's it's we're
treating it kind of like a Japan league or a
French league or an English league. To be farefully honest,
(11:23):
that's business is usual for us.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For more from sports Talk, listen live to news Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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