February 14, 2025 • 10 mins
Sir Gordon Tietjens joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the issue surrounding INEOS and the All Blacks Sevens sponsorship deal.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Seven's on the program. Now, in the situation that you
rugby find themselves, then we go to a former rugby
sevens coach for the All Black Sevens. His name is
Sir Gordon Titchens. He joins us. Now, good evening, Gordon, Yeah, evening.
Odd situation ends that are find themselves in, isn't it.
They've started a fight. Well, they've poked the bear that
(00:34):
is this enormous petro chemical company under the watchful life
of Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and they're taking them to court.
Yet they're still stuck with jerseys for this event in
Canada that have got any US written all over them.
Strange situation. What do they do?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Wow? Mates? That's well if I was coaching the team,
I hope it wouldn't distract my players when they go
to the tournament in Canada and you know you have
to wear them. Suppose contractually they're still aligned with them
as well as a sponsor. And I know it's here
say but I can't get involved in it because I
(01:17):
don't know what's been going back with a fortune on
the ends that are you all? I know, And what
we will hear is that they haven't paid the installment
that was required for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So they want to I believe change and they will
next time around. But at the moment they're just stuck
because they just can't get the gear fast enough. But
you mentioned distraction before. I suppose, from an athletic point
of view and a coaching point of view, that is
an issue. That's a sideline that you probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
No, you certainly don't know, not when you're going into
a tournament in the current World Series. And I suppose
of the management of talked to the players about it
not to get too distracted, to keep away from the media,
I suppose, and we'll just wear what's put in front
of us. And perhaps it is a jew with the
sponsor's name on there, you know. But I can't believe
(02:10):
personally that I added ass and I think if they
supported what the or Beast wanted and that was a
brand new jersey for this particular tournament, why couldn't they
do it? I mean, I mean, I work for an
apparel company, I'm involved. We've done jerseys in less than
a week. I mean, it can be done quite easily.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
How long does it take? I suppose that's that's the question.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
But will you get to your factory and you you know,
the mock ups and everything had done pretty easily. You've
got you know, graphic designers and that to design the jersey,
the patents and so on, and you go for it.
We've done jerseys for the Newcastle Jets in three days.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, it's quick. And that's in China. That's and so edit.
You pull some strings and ends that are you bring
edit ass and then you request a new jersey. But
perhaps there's still a little bit of hope that they'll
that they will pay the installment and no remain a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
It's all what difficult, isn't it When you've got a
team and you've got your program in front of you
and what you need to do, but you're inextricably linked
with the decisions made higher up the food Chaine and
you talked about keeping the players away from that. It
can't be easy, especially in this day and age, and
as you progressed in your career, the separation between the
(03:28):
athlete and everything else. How do you control that?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Gordon?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, yeah, you just made Jesus can't get involved in
I mean, but then you can't get away from it either,
because it's you know, there's just so much in the
media about what's actually happening that they've fallen behind, not
paying this, and you know, I mean, we're all challenged
to challenge your tough times at the moment, you know,
particularly your own sponsors and money and so on. And
(03:55):
I suppose a sponsor wants the best out of what
he can get. And let's face it, you know, on
the orby jersey it's pretty powerful. But you know, things
haven't gone as well as he's lost. I think he's
a director or an owner of Manchester United. They haven't
been going particularly well. We are being some tough times.
(04:17):
But I just look at it from the athlete's point
of view. You just can't get involved. It is what
it is. You get on and do the job. And
I don't think covering up the front of the jersey
if they have to wear it is the right answer
to that. Personally. Why not, Well it just wouldn't look good.
I just yeah, well, well you might be able to
(04:40):
do it. I just can't believe they can't make a
new jersey without a sponsor. If you're going to cover
it up, it doesn't look particularly professional. Put it that
way down. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You can't control these things with what the union do
and what they make you wear and so on and
so forth. But it's come up recently with Cada Clark
not wanting to be involved in fantasy rugby. I get
that we've had Sunny Bill not wanted to wear being Z.
From your knowledge and experience, most athletes they just wear
whatever they're told to wear. That any personal problem they
(05:12):
may have just has to be pushed to one size.
Is that isn't its head during your coaching those yet?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
No, I was actually trying to think back there were
there any disfuse at any time? And no, I mean
when I started coaching the All Blacks they were Canterbury
and then there was a quite an easy transition over
to audit asks. But no outside that, No, No, never
really had any problems whatsoever. And even with sponsors.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, Well, it's something I suppose that as time goes on,
will have to be looked at as personal IP and
so on and so forth goes through the roof about
what athletes expose themselves to and what they want to
be exposed to. It's it's difficulty.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
We there's a lot of athletes out there that that certainly,
I know a lot of companies we've got approach them
about personal sponsorshipers. So there's a there's a fine line.
And obviously if you're an all black and as an
example of someone like Ricue Joanni was approached by Nike
or someone like that and said, we'd love to sponsor you,
and you've got to be very very mindful of the
fact there's probably contractual requirements anyway, they can't do that
(06:16):
while they're actually playing for the organks. But I mean,
I know there's lots and lots of different companies out
there would love to align themselves with a top class athlete.
But there's certainly a lot of paperwork involved, certainly if
you are playing for a particular team that are covered
by a particular sponsor.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Let's look to the sevens while I've got here to
be rude, not to quite frankly that the women are
leading their competition only just after that crazy silver last
time around over in Perth. But the men, they're sitting
down in seventh place at the moment, and you've got
a three way tie at the top Fiji, Argentina, in Spain.
(06:56):
You wouldn't read about, would.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You, Gordon? No, I know you certainly wouldn't read about it.
I mean Spain as an example. They've put a lot
of emphasis in the sevens this year and they spend
a month in Fiji just playing the tournaments, getting really
battle hardened, I suppose, and just being conditioned to the
riggers because it was only the first couple of tournaments, remember,
and getting back into it if you had a break.
(07:19):
It's some really important. So they prepared really well and
they've beaten a lot of top teams on the way,
and they find themselves top of the ladder. Sure is
after a couple of rounds. That's well, not so much crazy.
But who would have thought? And I suppose, you know,
with our girls, I think there's always going to be
Australia and New Zealander and who turns up on the
(07:40):
day with those two and they're probably going to have
another fight in the upcoming finals in Canada and so on.
So it's challenging times, right, And as you said, you know,
having New Zealand down at seven, well I wouldn't have thought,
but I'm sure that they can get back up there
and secure a few more points in the upcoming tournaments.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
In hope some as far as the women are concerned,
not all about the ANZACs. You know, France are breathing
down their neck too, which is again great to see.
I think they've picked up the third for the last
three tournaments and they so they're there on their abouts.
Yeah they have, Yeah, there's play.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Probably two of the top teams are our black fans
of course in Australia, no doubt, and and France is
there and sometimes on the day USA, you know, and
and even Japan and at the odd time Merit tear
around and fighting a few teams. But it comes down
to consistency and again in the sevens game, and we've
got to start being there or thereabouts if we want
(08:39):
to be a threat to win the World Series.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And is it down to anything simple? The rest of
the world have caught up, may be passed, is it first?
I know you're say they're not fit enough, because that's
how you based your career on.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
They got different systems and methods now in some ways,
but they've lost a heap of experience just recently and
that's obviously had quite an impact and then then on
top of that, you get some injuries at certain times
in crucial positions, and that also has an impact on
how you perform. But you can't bring younger guys through
(09:14):
if they haven't got the experienced guys around them, ton't
bring them through. And that's what's happened, you know, losing
the ditions and the curries and the Michaelson's all at
wads was a huge, huge blow. But you know, why
do we get to that situation? And we just didn't
bring a lot of other younger players through at a
certain time to learn off those particular players who means
we all know we're very very good.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I love the next blockdown from DJ Forbes might go
and knock on Thor and tay Bro we need you back.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
See what do you say he could play now? I
mean I saw him just recently and he's incredibly fit
still and you know, amazing really and I mean he
could still go out there and just snow doubt like
Richie mccaugh in the fifteens game, he could go out
there and throw Jewsy on and still get out there
and perform and be at the levels that are required.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Tell me about it, ever, to my scene, I think
the same things. How on earth do you do this?
Sprat anyway on that good intention to me? Thank you
very much for your time. You have a wonderful weekend,
enjoy the sevens and I'm sure we'll catch up again soon.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, appreciate Thanks Mane.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Thank you For more from sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Seven's on the program. Now, in the situation that you
rugby find themselves, then we go to a former rugby
sevens coach for the All Black Sevens. His name is
Sir Gordon Titchens. He joins us. Now, good evening, Gordon, Yeah, evening.
Odd situation ends that are find themselves in, isn't it.
They've started a fight. Well, they've poked the bear that
(00:34):
is this enormous petro chemical company under the watchful life
of Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and they're taking them to court.
Yet they're still stuck with jerseys for this event in
Canada that have got any US written all over them.
Strange situation. What do they do?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Wow? Mates? That's well if I was coaching the team,
I hope it wouldn't distract my players when they go
to the tournament in Canada and you know you have
to wear them. Suppose contractually they're still aligned with them
as well as a sponsor. And I know it's here
say but I can't get involved in it because I
(01:17):
don't know what's been going back with a fortune on
the ends that are you all? I know, And what
we will hear is that they haven't paid the installment
that was required for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So they want to I believe change and they will
next time around. But at the moment they're just stuck
because they just can't get the gear fast enough. But
you mentioned distraction before. I suppose, from an athletic point
of view and a coaching point of view, that is
an issue. That's a sideline that you probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
No, you certainly don't know, not when you're going into
a tournament in the current World Series. And I suppose
of the management of talked to the players about it
not to get too distracted, to keep away from the media,
I suppose, and we'll just wear what's put in front
of us. And perhaps it is a jew with the
sponsor's name on there, you know. But I can't believe
(02:10):
personally that I added ass and I think if they
supported what the or Beast wanted and that was a
brand new jersey for this particular tournament, why couldn't they
do it? I mean, I mean, I work for an
apparel company, I'm involved. We've done jerseys in less than
a week. I mean, it can be done quite easily.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
How long does it take? I suppose that's that's the question.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
But will you get to your factory and you you know,
the mock ups and everything had done pretty easily. You've
got you know, graphic designers and that to design the jersey,
the patents and so on, and you go for it.
We've done jerseys for the Newcastle Jets in three days.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, it's quick. And that's in China. That's and so edit.
You pull some strings and ends that are you bring
edit ass and then you request a new jersey. But
perhaps there's still a little bit of hope that they'll
that they will pay the installment and no remain a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
It's all what difficult, isn't it When you've got a
team and you've got your program in front of you
and what you need to do, but you're inextricably linked
with the decisions made higher up the food Chaine and
you talked about keeping the players away from that. It
can't be easy, especially in this day and age, and
as you progressed in your career, the separation between the
(03:28):
athlete and everything else. How do you control that?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Gordon?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, yeah, you just made Jesus can't get involved in
I mean, but then you can't get away from it either,
because it's you know, there's just so much in the
media about what's actually happening that they've fallen behind, not
paying this, and you know, I mean, we're all challenged
to challenge your tough times at the moment, you know,
particularly your own sponsors and money and so on. And
(03:55):
I suppose a sponsor wants the best out of what
he can get. And let's face it, you know, on
the orby jersey it's pretty powerful. But you know, things
haven't gone as well as he's lost. I think he's
a director or an owner of Manchester United. They haven't
been going particularly well. We are being some tough times.
(04:17):
But I just look at it from the athlete's point
of view. You just can't get involved. It is what
it is. You get on and do the job. And
I don't think covering up the front of the jersey
if they have to wear it is the right answer
to that. Personally. Why not, Well it just wouldn't look good.
I just yeah, well, well you might be able to
(04:40):
do it. I just can't believe they can't make a
new jersey without a sponsor. If you're going to cover
it up, it doesn't look particularly professional. Put it that
way down. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You can't control these things with what the union do
and what they make you wear and so on and
so forth. But it's come up recently with Cada Clark
not wanting to be involved in fantasy rugby. I get
that we've had Sunny Bill not wanted to wear being Z.
From your knowledge and experience, most athletes they just wear
whatever they're told to wear. That any personal problem they
(05:12):
may have just has to be pushed to one size.
Is that isn't its head during your coaching those yet?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
No, I was actually trying to think back there were
there any disfuse at any time? And no, I mean
when I started coaching the All Blacks they were Canterbury
and then there was a quite an easy transition over
to audit asks. But no outside that, No, No, never
really had any problems whatsoever. And even with sponsors.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, Well, it's something I suppose that as time goes on,
will have to be looked at as personal IP and
so on and so forth goes through the roof about
what athletes expose themselves to and what they want to
be exposed to. It's it's difficulty.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
We there's a lot of athletes out there that that certainly,
I know a lot of companies we've got approach them
about personal sponsorshipers. So there's a there's a fine line.
And obviously if you're an all black and as an
example of someone like Ricue Joanni was approached by Nike
or someone like that and said, we'd love to sponsor you,
and you've got to be very very mindful of the
fact there's probably contractual requirements anyway, they can't do that
(06:16):
while they're actually playing for the organks. But I mean,
I know there's lots and lots of different companies out
there would love to align themselves with a top class athlete.
But there's certainly a lot of paperwork involved, certainly if
you are playing for a particular team that are covered
by a particular sponsor.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Let's look to the sevens while I've got here to
be rude, not to quite frankly that the women are
leading their competition only just after that crazy silver last
time around over in Perth. But the men, they're sitting
down in seventh place at the moment, and you've got
a three way tie at the top Fiji, Argentina, in Spain.
(06:56):
You wouldn't read about, would.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You, Gordon? No, I know you certainly wouldn't read about it.
I mean Spain as an example. They've put a lot
of emphasis in the sevens this year and they spend
a month in Fiji just playing the tournaments, getting really
battle hardened, I suppose, and just being conditioned to the
riggers because it was only the first couple of tournaments, remember,
and getting back into it if you had a break.
(07:19):
It's some really important. So they prepared really well and
they've beaten a lot of top teams on the way,
and they find themselves top of the ladder. Sure is
after a couple of rounds. That's well, not so much crazy.
But who would have thought? And I suppose, you know,
with our girls, I think there's always going to be
Australia and New Zealander and who turns up on the
(07:40):
day with those two and they're probably going to have
another fight in the upcoming finals in Canada and so on.
So it's challenging times, right, And as you said, you know,
having New Zealand down at seven, well I wouldn't have thought,
but I'm sure that they can get back up there
and secure a few more points in the upcoming tournaments.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
In hope some as far as the women are concerned,
not all about the ANZACs. You know, France are breathing
down their neck too, which is again great to see.
I think they've picked up the third for the last
three tournaments and they so they're there on their abouts.
Yeah they have, Yeah, there's play.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Probably two of the top teams are our black fans
of course in Australia, no doubt, and and France is
there and sometimes on the day USA, you know, and
and even Japan and at the odd time Merit tear
around and fighting a few teams. But it comes down
to consistency and again in the sevens game, and we've
got to start being there or thereabouts if we want
(08:39):
to be a threat to win the World Series.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And is it down to anything simple? The rest of
the world have caught up, may be passed, is it first?
I know you're say they're not fit enough, because that's
how you based your career on.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
They got different systems and methods now in some ways,
but they've lost a heap of experience just recently and
that's obviously had quite an impact and then then on
top of that, you get some injuries at certain times
in crucial positions, and that also has an impact on
how you perform. But you can't bring younger guys through
(09:14):
if they haven't got the experienced guys around them, ton't
bring them through. And that's what's happened, you know, losing
the ditions and the curries and the Michaelson's all at
wads was a huge, huge blow. But you know, why
do we get to that situation? And we just didn't
bring a lot of other younger players through at a
certain time to learn off those particular players who means
we all know we're very very good.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I love the next blockdown from DJ Forbes might go
and knock on Thor and tay Bro we need you back.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
See what do you say he could play now? I
mean I saw him just recently and he's incredibly fit
still and you know, amazing really and I mean he
could still go out there and just snow doubt like
Richie mccaugh in the fifteens game, he could go out
there and throw Jewsy on and still get out there
and perform and be at the levels that are required.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Tell me about it, ever, to my scene, I think
the same things. How on earth do you do this?
Sprat anyway on that good intention to me? Thank you
very much for your time. You have a wonderful weekend,
enjoy the sevens and I'm sure we'll catch up again soon.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, appreciate Thanks Mane.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Thank you For more from sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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