September 2, 2025 • 12 mins
This weekend, the All Blacks are set to face off against one of their greatest rivals.
The Kiwi side are taking on South Africa at Eden Park on Saturday night, putting their 31 year and 50 match unbeaten streak on the line.
To kick off the week of rugby D'Arcy spoke to 2011 Rugby World Cup winning coach Sir Graham Henry to get his thoughts on the importance of the Eden Park record and the effect it has on the players and coaches.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB and you could.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Call it the greatest rivalry in rugby and you wouldn't
be far off. At one of the grandest stages in
New Zealand sport, Eden Park, we'll back going to take
on spring Box Saturday night game. They have a thirty
one year old and fifty match unbeaten streak on the
(00:35):
line out Springbok's going to try and make history of
their own as well. They've won the last four tests
in a row against the All Blacks. A fifth consecutive
beating is something they haven't done since nineteen forty nine.
They haven't tasted victory Eaden Park even longer than that.
Take a guess nineteen thirty seven A today died a
(01:00):
yarn with the coach of the twenty eleven side that
tasted World Cup glory a huge amount of pressure. They
did it for the first time since nineteen eighty seven.
His name is Sir Graham Henry aka Ted. He joins
us now, sorry about that, good evening, Graham. How you're
(01:20):
going very well looking forward to the weekend. And there's
the biggest understatement there is let's talk about the pressure
this weekend. You're a man who understands pressure. Pressure at
Eden Park, You've experienced it worked out for you in
twenty eleven, different kettle of fish for Scott Robertson and
his coaching team. What are they dealing with right now?
(01:41):
Where are their heads at?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Do you think that we totally focused on trying to
help the team players best they can? So how are
we trying to decrease the noise, get rid of the
noise and totally if they can and just focus on
doing their jobs the best they can.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's a matter of like you can't read the paper,
you can't listen to the radio, or do you think
that all Blacks have probably already got that down and
they just don't they get into their own cocoon.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, we did that until eleven, had a massive difference
eight to seven. We smashed them. I think in the final.
Now he had no social media. I personally didn't read
the newspaper during that time or listen to the radio.
You just need to try and control your own environment
so that you can totally focus. If you're distracted, that's
(02:32):
a negative.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
How do you think Razor is going to go about
coaching this team from what you've seen after what happened
and over in Argentina. Does he make urgent tweaks? Does
he change in number of the team as some of
the media have suggested, because you've got to be in
some state of solidity surely going into such a pressure fixture.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think there be one or two changes. There's you know,
usually one or two changes, and I think that do
be one or two changes for this game. I think
the result in Buenos Aire's is probably a real positive
for the met to edge that the All Blacks will
bring to this particular fixture, not that they not that
they needed a greater contest. How they got that's the
(03:15):
biggest game for a long long time. It's hugely exciting
for rugby people, and the city's buzzing and can't wait
for the game. So no, I think you know, all
bats coming off loss galanises them, gets them really focused.
So our guys will be the best they can be.
(03:36):
Just hopefully they're going to be good enough.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So you don't have to delist these guys because they
understand the importance they have got of the energy around
this game. So going back to what you said before,
just focusing on the task at hand. These guys by
default should know this, shouldn't they. They shouldn't get carried
away with the stuff on the outside, even though they
well know the record that's sitting right in front of them.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I know, I think that I think they'll be good.
You know, the way they train during the week makes
a massive difference. You know, build from through from Sunday
through to the to the game on Saturday. And that's
a gradual process. And you can't be playing the game
now You've you've got to be playing at seven o'clock
on Saturday, so you've got to keep the reins on.
(04:21):
But now they will be building all week and and
how they train, and not only the guys the fifteen
or the twenty three are playing the game, it's the
whole squad being on the job, setting standard's putting pressure
on the team that's going to play. All of those
sort of things are very important in the build up
(04:41):
to this test. Like it's it's the ideal environment, isn't it.
It's the old enemy, the ol FOU, huge respect for
South Africa, all black South Africa. It goes back one
hundred odde years, so you know it's it's it's it's brilliant.
We've just got to make sure that the icing is right,
(05:04):
the cake's been, the cake is there. We're just going
to make sure that we do everything right to make
sure it's the perfect the perfect build up ready.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So the baker, which is what I'm going to call
Scott Robertson from now on, and the attitude that he brings,
the consistency, not necessary of the message, but the tone
of the message. Can you under overstate the importance of
how he holds himself?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Oh, I think it's a collective Scott. He's obviously very important,
but it's a collective responsibility. There's a number of coaches,
there's a number of senior players who have been there
a long time, like Scott Barrett, and other leaders in
the team. You know, there's a collection of the probably
(05:53):
half a dozen Ardie Savia for example, who's the vice captain.
Jordi Barretto's another vice captain. But we Lady Barrett, who's
the navigator of the team. You know, you can go
there's probably half a dozen people who have to stand
up on the field and lead together. Six captains is
(06:16):
better than one and so they will know that responsibility
and Scott Robinson will have his his team of coaches
who all have to make sure they do the job
as best they can right through this week, and their
body language is about we are good enough, we are
going to do this job.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Self doubt for Rosa because he had that game last
week which wasn't great. They've kind of taken steps forwards
and step backwards and step forward again. He's got to
have confidence in his development ahead of the World Cups
a couple of years ago now, but away yet, but
they've still he's still got to deliver that and have
confidence and where he's heading long term, not just the
(06:59):
eighty minutes coming.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Up, oh for sure. But you know, I think this
particular fixture after the last last time Eden Park thirty
years is it thirty years fifty test matches the Fortress,
it's a way bit of pressure. Like every test is important,
(07:20):
every All Black test they want to win. This is
another one. It so happens. It's play at Edon Park
and the All Blacks haven't lost their since ninety ninety four,
so that you know, that's a significant factor. The media
are playing on at the public. I think it's marvelous,
but at the end of the day, Scott Robinson. For
(07:41):
him it's another very important Test match and he has
to do the best he can with his other coaches
and senior players to do things right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Graham, you mentioned that they may have to change a
couple of players. Of course, all of the focus today
has been on half back. We've got a number of
players out broken. There's a chance that Preston might have
done himself in an ankle injury possibly, so we've got
no Roy guard no hope.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm not quite sure where they go from now if
they actually back that far. I mean you've got Christy obviously,
but it just represents a huge problem. Do you believe
in you had that issue, didn't you with a guy
white Baiting before twenty eleven. It's a similar space.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, Look, I don't know the answer. I don't know
who the next person off the rank, off the super
rugby area, who will come in and be the reserve halfback.
I guess if the guy is injured. We don't know
those things. Christy I thought was one of the best
all backs on the field glask last game against Argentina.
(08:48):
Obviously he's got a bit to prove, hasn't he like
he'd been dropped and even it wasn't in the top three.
Now he's starting half back and he produced it last week,
so he's got an opportunity. I'm sure he's looking forward
to that opportunity. He's playing in a park that he
plays a lot at, so he will want to try
and cement himself back into that All Black group for
(09:10):
the next three years. So it's Marvel's opportunity for him.
Who's the next guy? I'm not sure now, when you're
not the All Black coach, you watch it as closely
as these guys are watching them. Now, don't know who
the next one is, So we'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
On that other little tweaks lesa fan Nuku has been
dragged back into the side again with the injury to Nah.
Why do you think he might make an entry because
of course there's been questions around the midfield and around
both wing men too. Said before they don't want to
make too many changes, but is there a possibility that
(09:44):
he might ring the change in those key positions?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well possibly, yeah, yeah, there's always that opportunity, isn't there,
And I think he probably might, you know, I think
he might replace one of one of the two wingers,
and we will have to wait and see on that,
but I think that's a possibility.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Do you think there's reason to move anything in the
midfield from what you've seen? You like the content news
with Billy Proctor, what they're doing with.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I think you know, the backs will be disappointed
on how they're played so far this year. You know,
their fluency, it's hard to work out what they're actually
trying to achieve there, and so each individual suffers because
the back line as a group is not functioning that well.
So it's hard to put the finger on any particular
(10:30):
back why they're not functioning that well. You know, the
back three obviously have another role, which is the high ball,
and they're going to get plenty of that in the weekend.
But you know, because the back line as a group
are not playing well, we're inclined to criticize the individuals.
I think it's really important that back line functions as
seven and that really depends on the forward giving them
(10:53):
the right ball. And I think the forwards have been
pretty special really. I think they've done a good job
and they're developing a lot of depth and competition for places,
so that the forwards are setting a platform, the backs
are just going to step up and and and improve
what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think Ben got a question, can they make it
click on Saturday night? Where are your confidence levels?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Graham? I think they can. You know, I think they can.
I think they've, as I say, they've been galized by
the Argentinian experience. In Pnasari's they got beaten and the
Argentinian boys played superbly quite frankly, you know so, and
the All Blacks were great how they handled that. After
the game, they gave a total credit to the to
(11:35):
the Argentinians. But the All Blacks will be hurting, and
an All Black team that's hurting usually produces it to
the next Test match. So I'm expecting something special, Graham.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
What about the tyranny of discipline? It's been very difficult
for the All Blacks of recent times. The number of
yellow cards, so maybe not the red cards you'd expect.
What over the last five years it's been difficult. Where's
their discipline.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
At It's it's a factor, obviously a big factor, but
from my experience, when the team is right on the air,
you know they're ready to play that ten out of
ten mentally, you don't have those problems. When you're not
quite there, you're going to weave a complacent and you know,
look at the Argentinean situation. They won the first test
(12:20):
test comfortably, they could have won to buy more perhaps,
and then I think they have probably we have a
complacent going into the second test. So they're not quite
there mentally. You know, they're an eight point five or
an eight out of ten said have been a ten.
And when you're not quite there you make those silly
mistakes and give away silly penalties, which is really frustrating
(12:41):
for the coaching staff. And I think this weekend they
will be on the job. You know there'll be a
ten out of ten mentally, and when you're that in
that position, you don't make those sort of stupid mistakes
and give away penalis and yellow cards.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB and you could.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Call it the greatest rivalry in rugby and you wouldn't
be far off. At one of the grandest stages in
New Zealand sport, Eden Park, we'll back going to take
on spring Box Saturday night game. They have a thirty
one year old and fifty match unbeaten streak on the
(00:35):
line out Springbok's going to try and make history of
their own as well. They've won the last four tests
in a row against the All Blacks. A fifth consecutive
beating is something they haven't done since nineteen forty nine.
They haven't tasted victory Eaden Park even longer than that.
Take a guess nineteen thirty seven A today died a
(01:00):
yarn with the coach of the twenty eleven side that
tasted World Cup glory a huge amount of pressure. They
did it for the first time since nineteen eighty seven.
His name is Sir Graham Henry aka Ted. He joins
us now, sorry about that, good evening, Graham. How you're
(01:20):
going very well looking forward to the weekend. And there's
the biggest understatement there is let's talk about the pressure
this weekend. You're a man who understands pressure. Pressure at
Eden Park, You've experienced it worked out for you in
twenty eleven, different kettle of fish for Scott Robertson and
his coaching team. What are they dealing with right now?
(01:41):
Where are their heads at?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Do you think that we totally focused on trying to
help the team players best they can? So how are
we trying to decrease the noise, get rid of the
noise and totally if they can and just focus on
doing their jobs the best they can.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's a matter of like you can't read the paper,
you can't listen to the radio, or do you think
that all Blacks have probably already got that down and
they just don't they get into their own cocoon.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, we did that until eleven, had a massive difference
eight to seven. We smashed them. I think in the final.
Now he had no social media. I personally didn't read
the newspaper during that time or listen to the radio.
You just need to try and control your own environment
so that you can totally focus. If you're distracted, that's
(02:32):
a negative.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
How do you think Razor is going to go about
coaching this team from what you've seen after what happened
and over in Argentina. Does he make urgent tweaks? Does
he change in number of the team as some of
the media have suggested, because you've got to be in
some state of solidity surely going into such a pressure fixture.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think there be one or two changes. There's you know,
usually one or two changes, and I think that do
be one or two changes for this game. I think
the result in Buenos Aire's is probably a real positive
for the met to edge that the All Blacks will
bring to this particular fixture, not that they not that
they needed a greater contest. How they got that's the
(03:15):
biggest game for a long long time. It's hugely exciting
for rugby people, and the city's buzzing and can't wait
for the game. So no, I think you know, all
bats coming off loss galanises them, gets them really focused.
So our guys will be the best they can be.
(03:36):
Just hopefully they're going to be good enough.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So you don't have to delist these guys because they
understand the importance they have got of the energy around
this game. So going back to what you said before,
just focusing on the task at hand. These guys by
default should know this, shouldn't they. They shouldn't get carried
away with the stuff on the outside, even though they
well know the record that's sitting right in front of them.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I know, I think that I think they'll be good.
You know, the way they train during the week makes
a massive difference. You know, build from through from Sunday
through to the to the game on Saturday. And that's
a gradual process. And you can't be playing the game
now You've you've got to be playing at seven o'clock
on Saturday, so you've got to keep the reins on.
(04:21):
But now they will be building all week and and
how they train, and not only the guys the fifteen
or the twenty three are playing the game, it's the
whole squad being on the job, setting standard's putting pressure
on the team that's going to play. All of those
sort of things are very important in the build up
(04:41):
to this test. Like it's it's the ideal environment, isn't it.
It's the old enemy, the ol FOU, huge respect for
South Africa, all black South Africa. It goes back one
hundred odde years, so you know it's it's it's it's brilliant.
We've just got to make sure that the icing is right,
(05:04):
the cake's been, the cake is there. We're just going
to make sure that we do everything right to make
sure it's the perfect the perfect build up ready.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So the baker, which is what I'm going to call
Scott Robertson from now on, and the attitude that he brings,
the consistency, not necessary of the message, but the tone
of the message. Can you under overstate the importance of
how he holds himself?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Oh, I think it's a collective Scott. He's obviously very important,
but it's a collective responsibility. There's a number of coaches,
there's a number of senior players who have been there
a long time, like Scott Barrett, and other leaders in
the team. You know, there's a collection of the probably
(05:53):
half a dozen Ardie Savia for example, who's the vice captain.
Jordi Barretto's another vice captain. But we Lady Barrett, who's
the navigator of the team. You know, you can go
there's probably half a dozen people who have to stand
up on the field and lead together. Six captains is
(06:16):
better than one and so they will know that responsibility
and Scott Robinson will have his his team of coaches
who all have to make sure they do the job
as best they can right through this week, and their
body language is about we are good enough, we are
going to do this job.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Self doubt for Rosa because he had that game last
week which wasn't great. They've kind of taken steps forwards
and step backwards and step forward again. He's got to
have confidence in his development ahead of the World Cups
a couple of years ago now, but away yet, but
they've still he's still got to deliver that and have
confidence and where he's heading long term, not just the
(06:59):
eighty minutes coming.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Up, oh for sure. But you know, I think this
particular fixture after the last last time Eden Park thirty
years is it thirty years fifty test matches the Fortress,
it's a way bit of pressure. Like every test is important,
(07:20):
every All Black test they want to win. This is
another one. It so happens. It's play at Edon Park
and the All Blacks haven't lost their since ninety ninety four,
so that you know, that's a significant factor. The media
are playing on at the public. I think it's marvelous,
but at the end of the day, Scott Robinson. For
(07:41):
him it's another very important Test match and he has
to do the best he can with his other coaches
and senior players to do things right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Graham, you mentioned that they may have to change a
couple of players. Of course, all of the focus today
has been on half back. We've got a number of
players out broken. There's a chance that Preston might have
done himself in an ankle injury possibly, so we've got
no Roy guard no hope.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm not quite sure where they go from now if
they actually back that far. I mean you've got Christy obviously,
but it just represents a huge problem. Do you believe
in you had that issue, didn't you with a guy
white Baiting before twenty eleven. It's a similar space.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, Look, I don't know the answer. I don't know
who the next person off the rank, off the super
rugby area, who will come in and be the reserve halfback.
I guess if the guy is injured. We don't know
those things. Christy I thought was one of the best
all backs on the field glask last game against Argentina.
(08:48):
Obviously he's got a bit to prove, hasn't he like
he'd been dropped and even it wasn't in the top three.
Now he's starting half back and he produced it last week,
so he's got an opportunity. I'm sure he's looking forward
to that opportunity. He's playing in a park that he
plays a lot at, so he will want to try
and cement himself back into that All Black group for
(09:10):
the next three years. So it's Marvel's opportunity for him.
Who's the next guy? I'm not sure now, when you're
not the All Black coach, you watch it as closely
as these guys are watching them. Now, don't know who
the next one is, So we'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
On that other little tweaks lesa fan Nuku has been
dragged back into the side again with the injury to Nah.
Why do you think he might make an entry because
of course there's been questions around the midfield and around
both wing men too. Said before they don't want to
make too many changes, but is there a possibility that
(09:44):
he might ring the change in those key positions?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well possibly, yeah, yeah, there's always that opportunity, isn't there,
And I think he probably might, you know, I think
he might replace one of one of the two wingers,
and we will have to wait and see on that,
but I think that's a possibility.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Do you think there's reason to move anything in the
midfield from what you've seen? You like the content news
with Billy Proctor, what they're doing with.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I think you know, the backs will be disappointed
on how they're played so far this year. You know,
their fluency, it's hard to work out what they're actually
trying to achieve there, and so each individual suffers because
the back line as a group is not functioning that well.
So it's hard to put the finger on any particular
(10:30):
back why they're not functioning that well. You know, the
back three obviously have another role, which is the high ball,
and they're going to get plenty of that in the weekend.
But you know, because the back line as a group
are not playing well, we're inclined to criticize the individuals.
I think it's really important that back line functions as
seven and that really depends on the forward giving them
(10:53):
the right ball. And I think the forwards have been
pretty special really. I think they've done a good job
and they're developing a lot of depth and competition for places,
so that the forwards are setting a platform, the backs
are just going to step up and and and improve
what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think Ben got a question, can they make it
click on Saturday night? Where are your confidence levels?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Graham? I think they can. You know, I think they can.
I think they've, as I say, they've been galized by
the Argentinian experience. In Pnasari's they got beaten and the
Argentinian boys played superbly quite frankly, you know so, and
the All Blacks were great how they handled that. After
the game, they gave a total credit to the to
(11:35):
the Argentinians. But the All Blacks will be hurting, and
an All Black team that's hurting usually produces it to
the next Test match. So I'm expecting something special, Graham.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
What about the tyranny of discipline? It's been very difficult
for the All Blacks of recent times. The number of
yellow cards, so maybe not the red cards you'd expect.
What over the last five years it's been difficult. Where's
their discipline.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
At It's it's a factor, obviously a big factor, but
from my experience, when the team is right on the air,
you know they're ready to play that ten out of
ten mentally, you don't have those problems. When you're not
quite there, you're going to weave a complacent and you know,
look at the Argentinean situation. They won the first test
(12:20):
test comfortably, they could have won to buy more perhaps,
and then I think they have probably we have a
complacent going into the second test. So they're not quite
there mentally. You know, they're an eight point five or
an eight out of ten said have been a ten.
And when you're not quite there you make those silly
mistakes and give away silly penalties, which is really frustrating
(12:41):
for the coaching staff. And I think this weekend they
will be on the job. You know there'll be a
ten out of ten mentally, and when you're that in
that position, you don't make those sort of stupid mistakes
and give away penalis and yellow cards.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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