November 11, 2025 • 11 mins
The Pacific Championships wrapped up over the weekend, with the Kiwis defeating Samoa 36-14 in Sydney in front of what was another passionate crowd of supporters.
The tournament highlighted the passion that the Pacific nations have for their national sides, with bumper crowds across the tournament.
Former Kiwis lock Tawera Nikau joined D'Arcy to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk zed Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Pacific Championship wrapped up over the weekend. The Kiwi beat
some More thirty six fourteen in front of the maddest
and most passionate crowd of supporters. Why if you take
out the tongue, because they're right up there, aren't they?
The sarm Oen's over in Sydney quite something else. The
(00:34):
noise was deafening. What we saw out of this tournament.
It was the passion that Pacific nations have for their
national sides. The crowds were big across the tournament, hymn singing, cheering,
an atmosphere that you really couldn't write about. You wouldn't
know until you've been there, what it's like, hairs standing
(00:54):
up on the back of your neck. But it's not
the pinnacle of sports. Not International Rugby League still isn't
the pinnacle of the sport. NURL season origin. They take
precedent with long NRLC les very little time for International league.
Australia didn't take part this year. Their priorities aren't about
International league. I say whatever they want.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
But actions make actions.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
They don't care so We're joined now by former Keys
like Catalada Nico a freedom of the tournament, discuss what
next for Insnational Rugby League to continue to build from
this tournament into the World Cup next year. Here he is, okay,
tell it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
How are you? Oh? Good, darthing yourself made? Always great
to chat to you, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Great to have you on and thanks for answering the phone.
How good was the Pacific Championship of the last few weeks?
This is international league. It's the very best and I
think it's all heading that Wey or is it Tea.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well, I think they just off to the back of
the NRL, you know, the finals, the Grand Final and
then we roll into the Peck Champs this year Samoa Tonga.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
In New Zealand and what a fantastic series.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Pity we can't have more of these games throughout the
Darcy in that mid window for state of origin. But man,
what a fantastic support from the Salmans the Tongans. And
how do we get the Keywy supporters to be like
Toma and some more Darcy that's what I need.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't know, mate, We're a bit kind of down
in the mouth of that when it's too much English
and you know what the English are like, they I
don't want to celebrate. So why the fire is this
purity of the fact that suddenly we've got the best
players in the world. Who go, you know what, I
want to play for my homeland. I don't want to
play in Australia. I don't want to play I want
to represent the time in summer. How instrumental is that, bean?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Well, as you go back to twenty seventeen, I think
when Jason Tomololo started the migration, you know, from New
Zealand to Tonga. Ever since then you've had a We've
got some of the best players in the world now,
the best players in our game, the likes of Payne Has, you.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Know, Ali Katoa. There's a whole lot of them now.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Then I there's a whole lot of them now wanting
to represent their families, to represent you know, the appearance
and represent their country. So man at all augu as
well and support that you get from Samoa and Tongan's
mangader Oda who you know when you're those games on there,
they're all at Eden Park, they're all at you know,
(03:24):
Mount Smart and it's just an awesome feeling and you
know those guys are done a fantastic job. But it's
just growing now over the last three four years. Spacific
Championships is our state of origin, Dusty, So.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
What has to happen to nail this in place? Where
does it have to be played? How's this going to operate?
Because this is a growth region. We know, as you'd
know that international rugby league has been sporadic stop start.
It's never been really given the respect it deserves. But
now the time is nice, surely what is to happen?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, I think, you know with the International Rugby League
Federation and we saw the Kangaroos going to England and
you know the English weren't that went't that much? So
interesting to see what the international calendar.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
We have the World Cup next.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Year, there's got to be some dates set in stone
around what happens like the Pacific Championships. Now we've also
got the World Cup, so you know this competition.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I know they're trying to.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Grow the game and Villandi's and Abdo have done a
great job in terms of promoting the NRL, but International
rugby league has to be the pinnacle. We need to
set that at the top of our game to actually
grow the game, and the biggest growth in the game
is coming from the Pacific and here in New Zealand.
And you know, potentially another team at Canterbury, your hometown
Darcy down there. You know, we could have another NRL
(04:43):
team because you know, one of the great things is
that we have more people in Auckland than Samoa, more
people in Auckland than than and Tonga, and just you
know the support of the Pacific. You know, Auckland is
the capital of the Pacific and we've got so many people.
So the growth of the game really depends on how
(05:04):
we promote these games in Tongue Sarmour and in New Zealand.
Because you know comm Bank thirty thousand, we would have
had another forty thousand people at Eden Park had we
been able to play that game against oh at Eden
Park as previously thirty eight thousand.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And were you at the game? Does he the tongue
in game?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Did you go No, I was looking after Mackid.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But mate, I've been to a lot of stadiums, I've
played a lot of football, but the atmosphere at Eden
Park in that match against Tongel was absolutely sensational. The
singing the hymns, but also just the atmosphere and the
way that the Tongans actually support of their players was
absolutely fantastic. So you know that the pinnacle of the
game has to be the International Games, and I know
(05:48):
that we have our place to The NRL has done
a great job, but yeah, something needs to be changed.
And yeah, this is quite challenging when you have the
NRL which potentially runs the game you know through the world.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well they do, and they make the calls and they
own the competition, so makes it difficult. But to get
traction internationally this has to occur.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The idea is that there is a mid season break,
you guys can have origin, we'll have our internationals. How
likely is something like that. I know it'll be wanted,
but how likely?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it's going to be a challenge, Darcy, because those
guys make the rules.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Have you got all the cash? Whoever has the goal
makes the rules.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
And that's probably the big thing about it because for
us in New Zealand, you know, potentially we don't have
the amount of money that you know, the NRL is
just a behemoth now in terms of but the game's
growing and it's not just the men's game. You look
at the women's game and the potential for that to grow.
You know, we've got so many young pathways now for
young players, young female players into the game, and yeah,
(06:53):
that something needs to change. But how we do that
that's a whole nother discussion around rugby league and the
International Rugby League Federation.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's also faith and not only an international rugby league,
but the drivers from over here ends yet how can
they disrupt I mean want a disruption, but surely they're
a lot stronger than some or or a papa in
New Guinea. So it's part of what they've got to
do right and I think they've got their hands tied
to a degree. But we're putting a lot of faith
(07:22):
in these guys to cause a rucas.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, so it can be quite challenging in terms of
where we currently are at the moment. But I think
if you look at the support and what Pacific Champions
have done. You know, you Zealand won the Pacific Championships
with Michel McGuire way back in twenty three. We played
you know, in the promotion relegation last year twenty four,
but in twenty five were Pacific champions again, so you
know with the Kiwi players, with the salam Warns, with
(07:45):
the Tongans, you know, and Fiji's another sleeping giant also,
you know in terms of where they currently are.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
We know how good they are at.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Rugby and sevens, but potentially there's another whole nother country
there in terms of growth of our game. So you're
the PEC champs I think, and you've got the Cook
Islands pup in New Guinea. So that whole Pacific Bowl
is unbelievable and you know, it's just really exciting to
be part of the game and what we're actually doing now,
but definitely needs to change.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
The whole team of Semarandrunda would be extraordinary.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
You look at some of the talent that they have,
you know with the Fijians, and you know, we're just
scratching the service and you look at what's happening. And
I know that the NRL have player developments in Fiji
also some more and Tonga so that they are investing
in those areas. But I think for the international game,
it'll be interesting to see what happens with the NRL.
(08:41):
With P and G coming in, We've got the Perth
team and potentially a third team in New Zealand in
probably four to five years. Where are those players coming from, Darcy,
I'll tell you where they're coming from. They're coming from
the Pacific Bowl. They're coming from New Zealand and the
Pacific is where the biggest growth in players in the
NRL is. So we have to do something and maybe
(09:02):
a conference system.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You like the NFL. You watch a lot of sport, Darcy.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
You have the NF what do they play sixteen games
in the season and then they have the playoffs. So
there could be a conference system where you have the North,
the South play lesser games, but you have more and
then you have I mean you play different you know,
a model where it's based on the NFL and you
come together, you play, you know, to play the guys
(09:26):
in your conference twice and then maybe once the other.
So because I just think there's too much of games
in the NRL. Twenty seven rounds, Darcy, that's a lot
of football. Then you've got Origin in the middle. Then
you've got test football. You know, those players are playing
thirty five games and then they're doing the test matches
at the end of the season. You know, another four
or five games so it's forty matches a season, way
too many.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But the product is unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And if you looked at the Final Series, most watch games,
most revenue, and you looked at the Grand Final outstanding,
and then we go to the pac Champs. So when
you look at that, it's a fantastic product. But how
do you keep that intensity with lesser games and maybe
sharing some of that stuff? So a lot to think about,
a lot to decide. We will need to get in
(10:11):
the room and work out what that looks like for
New zellan rugby league, for the Pacific in particular, and
the growth of our game.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And one last thing, Tawadnico and as always, thanks so
much for climbing off the farm to join us. What
screams to me is the amount of money the players
get when they play Origin. They get about ten percent
when they play for a Donga or Summer, but they
do it anyway. It's not about the money, it's about
(10:37):
the passion for the flag and that to me is vice.
It's huge.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well we saw that on the Weekend Darky in the
final Jerome Lewy Bryan or Karen Forum. You know that's
the passion, That's what rugby league actually means to us
when you've got players that have played at the highest level,
that are one Grand Finals, that have played State of Origin,
that have played for their country, and you see them
with their passion and those tears in their eyes.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Man, how awesome are we and what a great product is.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Rugby league is alive and world in New Zealand and
the Pacific in Long May It Rain.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk zed Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Pacific Championship wrapped up over the weekend. The Kiwi beat
some More thirty six fourteen in front of the maddest
and most passionate crowd of supporters. Why if you take
out the tongue, because they're right up there, aren't they?
The sarm Oen's over in Sydney quite something else. The
(00:34):
noise was deafening. What we saw out of this tournament.
It was the passion that Pacific nations have for their
national sides. The crowds were big across the tournament, hymn singing, cheering,
an atmosphere that you really couldn't write about. You wouldn't
know until you've been there, what it's like, hairs standing
(00:54):
up on the back of your neck. But it's not
the pinnacle of sports. Not International Rugby League still isn't
the pinnacle of the sport. NURL season origin. They take
precedent with long NRLC les very little time for International league.
Australia didn't take part this year. Their priorities aren't about
International league. I say whatever they want.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
But actions make actions.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
They don't care so We're joined now by former Keys
like Catalada Nico a freedom of the tournament, discuss what
next for Insnational Rugby League to continue to build from
this tournament into the World Cup next year. Here he is, okay,
tell it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
How are you? Oh? Good, darthing yourself made? Always great
to chat to you, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Great to have you on and thanks for answering the phone.
How good was the Pacific Championship of the last few weeks?
This is international league. It's the very best and I
think it's all heading that Wey or is it Tea.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well, I think they just off to the back of
the NRL, you know, the finals, the Grand Final and
then we roll into the Peck Champs this year Samoa Tonga.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
In New Zealand and what a fantastic series.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Pity we can't have more of these games throughout the
Darcy in that mid window for state of origin. But man,
what a fantastic support from the Salmans the Tongans. And
how do we get the Keywy supporters to be like
Toma and some more Darcy that's what I need.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't know, mate, We're a bit kind of down
in the mouth of that when it's too much English
and you know what the English are like, they I
don't want to celebrate. So why the fire is this
purity of the fact that suddenly we've got the best
players in the world. Who go, you know what, I
want to play for my homeland. I don't want to
play in Australia. I don't want to play I want
to represent the time in summer. How instrumental is that, bean?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Well, as you go back to twenty seventeen, I think
when Jason Tomololo started the migration, you know, from New
Zealand to Tonga. Ever since then you've had a We've
got some of the best players in the world now,
the best players in our game, the likes of Payne Has, you.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Know, Ali Katoa. There's a whole lot of them now.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Then I there's a whole lot of them now wanting
to represent their families, to represent you know, the appearance
and represent their country. So man at all augu as
well and support that you get from Samoa and Tongan's
mangader Oda who you know when you're those games on there,
they're all at Eden Park, they're all at you know,
(03:24):
Mount Smart and it's just an awesome feeling and you
know those guys are done a fantastic job. But it's
just growing now over the last three four years. Spacific
Championships is our state of origin, Dusty, So.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
What has to happen to nail this in place? Where
does it have to be played? How's this going to operate?
Because this is a growth region. We know, as you'd
know that international rugby league has been sporadic stop start.
It's never been really given the respect it deserves. But
now the time is nice, surely what is to happen?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, I think, you know with the International Rugby League
Federation and we saw the Kangaroos going to England and
you know the English weren't that went't that much? So
interesting to see what the international calendar.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
We have the World Cup next.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Year, there's got to be some dates set in stone
around what happens like the Pacific Championships. Now we've also
got the World Cup, so you know this competition.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I know they're trying to.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Grow the game and Villandi's and Abdo have done a
great job in terms of promoting the NRL, but International
rugby league has to be the pinnacle. We need to
set that at the top of our game to actually
grow the game, and the biggest growth in the game
is coming from the Pacific and here in New Zealand.
And you know, potentially another team at Canterbury, your hometown
Darcy down there. You know, we could have another NRL
(04:43):
team because you know, one of the great things is
that we have more people in Auckland than Samoa, more
people in Auckland than than and Tonga, and just you
know the support of the Pacific. You know, Auckland is
the capital of the Pacific and we've got so many people.
So the growth of the game really depends on how
(05:04):
we promote these games in Tongue Sarmour and in New Zealand.
Because you know comm Bank thirty thousand, we would have
had another forty thousand people at Eden Park had we
been able to play that game against oh at Eden
Park as previously thirty eight thousand.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And were you at the game? Does he the tongue
in game?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Did you go No, I was looking after Mackid.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But mate, I've been to a lot of stadiums, I've
played a lot of football, but the atmosphere at Eden
Park in that match against Tongel was absolutely sensational. The
singing the hymns, but also just the atmosphere and the
way that the Tongans actually support of their players was
absolutely fantastic. So you know that the pinnacle of the
game has to be the International Games, and I know
(05:48):
that we have our place to The NRL has done
a great job, but yeah, something needs to be changed.
And yeah, this is quite challenging when you have the
NRL which potentially runs the game you know through the world.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well they do, and they make the calls and they
own the competition, so makes it difficult. But to get
traction internationally this has to occur.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The idea is that there is a mid season break,
you guys can have origin, we'll have our internationals. How
likely is something like that. I know it'll be wanted,
but how likely?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it's going to be a challenge, Darcy, because those
guys make the rules.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Have you got all the cash? Whoever has the goal
makes the rules.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
And that's probably the big thing about it because for
us in New Zealand, you know, potentially we don't have
the amount of money that you know, the NRL is
just a behemoth now in terms of but the game's
growing and it's not just the men's game. You look
at the women's game and the potential for that to grow.
You know, we've got so many young pathways now for
young players, young female players into the game, and yeah,
(06:53):
that something needs to change. But how we do that
that's a whole nother discussion around rugby league and the
International Rugby League Federation.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's also faith and not only an international rugby league,
but the drivers from over here ends yet how can
they disrupt I mean want a disruption, but surely they're
a lot stronger than some or or a papa in
New Guinea. So it's part of what they've got to
do right and I think they've got their hands tied
to a degree. But we're putting a lot of faith
(07:22):
in these guys to cause a rucas.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, so it can be quite challenging in terms of
where we currently are at the moment. But I think
if you look at the support and what Pacific Champions
have done. You know, you Zealand won the Pacific Championships
with Michel McGuire way back in twenty three. We played
you know, in the promotion relegation last year twenty four,
but in twenty five were Pacific champions again, so you
know with the Kiwi players, with the salam Warns, with
(07:45):
the Tongans, you know, and Fiji's another sleeping giant also,
you know in terms of where they currently are.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
We know how good they are at.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Rugby and sevens, but potentially there's another whole nother country
there in terms of growth of our game. So you're
the PEC champs I think, and you've got the Cook
Islands pup in New Guinea. So that whole Pacific Bowl
is unbelievable and you know, it's just really exciting to
be part of the game and what we're actually doing now,
but definitely needs to change.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
The whole team of Semarandrunda would be extraordinary.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
You look at some of the talent that they have,
you know with the Fijians, and you know, we're just
scratching the service and you look at what's happening. And
I know that the NRL have player developments in Fiji
also some more and Tonga so that they are investing
in those areas. But I think for the international game,
it'll be interesting to see what happens with the NRL.
(08:41):
With P and G coming in, We've got the Perth
team and potentially a third team in New Zealand in
probably four to five years. Where are those players coming from, Darcy,
I'll tell you where they're coming from. They're coming from
the Pacific Bowl. They're coming from New Zealand and the
Pacific is where the biggest growth in players in the
NRL is. So we have to do something and maybe
(09:02):
a conference system.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You like the NFL. You watch a lot of sport, Darcy.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
You have the NF what do they play sixteen games
in the season and then they have the playoffs. So
there could be a conference system where you have the North,
the South play lesser games, but you have more and
then you have I mean you play different you know,
a model where it's based on the NFL and you
come together, you play, you know, to play the guys
(09:26):
in your conference twice and then maybe once the other.
So because I just think there's too much of games
in the NRL. Twenty seven rounds, Darcy, that's a lot
of football. Then you've got Origin in the middle. Then
you've got test football. You know, those players are playing
thirty five games and then they're doing the test matches
at the end of the season. You know, another four
or five games so it's forty matches a season, way
too many.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But the product is unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And if you looked at the Final Series, most watch games,
most revenue, and you looked at the Grand Final outstanding,
and then we go to the pac Champs. So when
you look at that, it's a fantastic product. But how
do you keep that intensity with lesser games and maybe
sharing some of that stuff? So a lot to think about,
a lot to decide. We will need to get in
(10:11):
the room and work out what that looks like for
New zellan rugby league, for the Pacific in particular, and
the growth of our game.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And one last thing, Tawadnico and as always, thanks so
much for climbing off the farm to join us. What
screams to me is the amount of money the players
get when they play Origin. They get about ten percent
when they play for a Donga or Summer, but they
do it anyway. It's not about the money, it's about
(10:37):
the passion for the flag and that to me is vice.
It's huge.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well we saw that on the Weekend Darky in the
final Jerome Lewy Bryan or Karen Forum. You know that's
the passion, That's what rugby league actually means to us
when you've got players that have played at the highest level,
that are one Grand Finals, that have played State of Origin,
that have played for their country, and you see them
with their passion and those tears in their eyes.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Man, how awesome are we and what a great product is.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Rugby league is alive and world in New Zealand and
the Pacific in Long May It Rain.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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