Big change coming the landscape of school sport in New Zealand.
School Sport NZ is going to ban 'Year 14s' - the students who stay on in school for an extra year just to play sport.
School Sport NZ chair and Shirley Boys High principal spoke to D'Arcy Waldegrave on Sportstalk about why they're doing this.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're moving now into sport in New Zealand. Schools just
caught up with the news that the school Sport in
New Zealand organization have put ford a document that says
no more year fourteens at school.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
It's not right, it's bad, it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It mostly comes from verse fifteen Rugby and Marty cart
that's been the issue predominantly with kids too old, too big,
pretending to go to school another year and all they wanted.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
To was really play sports.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So they're looking to stamp that out. To Grocott, chair
of school Sport in z also principal at Chiliboys Hi,
he joins us now to discuss term.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I trust you well, yes, I'm very good. Thank you, Darcy.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Great to see the information come out today that after
a lengthy review, you now have an idea around what
you're doing with the dreaded year fourteen situation. And I
would say that the proposed rule change is that the
blanket ban on those students. Now this is a proposed
(01:18):
rule change, what hopes does they have to jump through
to become I suppose law for one of a better phrase.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Yeah, So what we've done is that we've spent a
bit of time working on these eligibility rules. I've now
gone out to schools so out of Principles and schools
around the country and they have about six weeks now
to provide us with some feedback. So we're in a
currently in a consultation phase and we're hoping to get
(01:46):
some really good engagement from Principles and schools around the
country to give us a bit of a stare as
to where they see these rules.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Now, this is not carved in stone. You're plainly interested
in feedback, so it could move, It couldn't wabble to
a degree.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Or yeah, it could do. I mean we do it
by in your review.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So we're doing this every two years, so this is
a it's a fairly normal process. But I guess the
nature of the year fourteen issue means that it's a
little bit more high profile than it's been in the past.
But I would like to think that we've spent quite
a bit of time looking at the eligibility rules. We
think they are in a good place. It probably reflects
where most schools are at and therefore we're really keen
(02:28):
to get that feedback now and to get those locked
in for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It sounds like when you went into this you did
have a mandate because the schools generally overwhelmingly is a word,
voted in favor of this rule change. So it's not
like you're pushing against the tired au well, not to
an extent. I mean at this point, really the year
fourteen rules only been tested with the with rowing at
(02:53):
the Mardy Cup, so that was obviously the really big
one earlier in the year.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But what then.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Indicated is that there was a real depth of feeling
around keeping year four teams out of it, and I
guess we're wanting now to push that forward.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I know that some other regions have picked up on that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I know that Auckland's one A rugby next year are
moving towards no Year fourteens, so it's probably gaining some
momentum and it's also the reason why we're looking at
that for school sport New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So will there be exceptions with this mandate? Do you
believe and what objections do you think are going to face?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I think there is a dispensation process, so we would
look at providing exemptions for people who have a genuine
educational reason. So if they haven't completed their secondary school qualification,
if they're doing NCAA, they haven't completed that and they
genuinely need to be back at year fourteen to finish
(03:52):
that off, that's where we would look at an exemption,
but it would be on an educational basis, not a
sports basis. So if they were coming back and already
had NCAA Level three or or they had a pathway
mapped out for them, and they were simply coming back
to play sport, that wouldn't meet their threshold.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How common is that?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It sounds to me like it does happen in exceptional circumstance,
and it gets pointed at by the media and such
big events as the Marty Cup for example, and first
fifteen rugby. But is this a huge problem in general
across secondary schools team.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's probably not a huge problem, but it is an
issue that where the issue lies is that you know,
for I guess, in a sport, particularly those physical sports
like rowing rugby, that additional twelve months they do have,
you know, I guess they bring that physical ability of
(04:52):
one additional year of school you know, or age, they
are actually physically and in many cases mentally stronger than
other athletes.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And that there is an advantage.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
So what we're just trying to do is probably I
think it back to a little bit more of an
equitable and level playing field and making sure that The
key thing for us, I think Darcy also is that
we're an educational organization. Our aim is really to support
the education of young people. We provide sport as a
(05:25):
byproduct for schools, but really kids are at school for
sport for excuse me, for education, and we don't want
to see them there just for sport. We want to
see them there getting an education, getting learning, having a.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Pathway out of school.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
And we are providing some sport, you know, a whole
range of tournaments and competitions that students can participate in,
but it's not at the you know, it's not having
an impact on their education. We're wanting to see the
kids be educated and sport's a byproduct of that education.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
We sought any advice from major sporting bodies around New Zealand,
like India they even do with this NZ cricket, like
the rowing in Z do they have any engagement.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
At all Ton, Well, we've had What we have done
is obviously Rowing New Zealand has certainly had some input
because of what happened earlier in the year. But what
we have been is earlier this year we had a
forum up in Auckland for all of the NSOs were invited,
so New Zion and Rugby were there and New Football News, Antennas,
(06:34):
a whole range of organizations and we talked really clearly
around the educational aspect of secondary school sport. We talked
about the fact that you know, kids were at school
to be educated and just what I talked about before
that that sport happens at school, but the learning is
the priority. So we've been really clear with those organizations.
(06:57):
We will expect to get some feedback from them around
this as well, but what we're saying they can have
you know that those sports organizations, whether it's football, hockey,
whatever it is, they can have their pathways to produce
their elite athletes. We're not wanting the school sports system
to be the bee or end or of that. Actually,
(07:20):
kids are at school to be doing learning and educate
it and be educated.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
They can love sport and being part of it and.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It helps with that school camaraderie and all of those
sorts of things, but it isn't necessarily a pathway into
professional sport, and so we're just really wanting to be
clear around that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
There's also the issue around home school students in fact
that came to a head recently, didn't when that Amelia
twist that the Mountain Biker couldn't pick up her medal?
So in that space, what can can't you do?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Well, so that I'm probably I don't really want to
comment on that, Darci, because that's still a piece of
work that's that's being worked through. So we're not in
a position to comment on that because that that's something
that we're working on right now.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So maybe in.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A few weeks time we might have some further information
around that, but at the moment, I don't really want
to comment on that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, fair enough, The cutoff point of that is no
year fourteen, you talk about even playing field and the
mental ability and their physical ability, but it's nigh and
impossible to get an even playing field because some kids
advance mentally and physically a lot quicker than the others.
Is it just a lot easier for everyone concerned to
say this is where it finishes, and we're not going
(08:37):
to have well plainly, we're not going to have many exceptions.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, I think that's what we're What we're basically saying
is we want to provide secondary school sport and we're
talking about championship level events, so those top tear events,
you know, whether it's Rank and Cup, the Federation Cup hockey,
you know, it's those, but it's also some maybe some
lower t yer competitions as well. We're really keen to
(09:03):
provide those right across the board for schools, but it
is for students who are in year nine through the
year thirteen, because that is what secondary schooling is about.
I know that students can come back until nineteen years
of age, but really what we're saying is that schools
should be completed at the end of year thirteen, and
that also means that that should be the completion of
(09:24):
your sporting time at the school as well.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And finally, you're dealing with proposed changes as well on
student transfers, on poaching competent teams and the like as well.
What are you looking to achieve there?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, I guess it's really about being completely open and
explicit around what the rules are, so schools know that
if they are going to start approaching students with inducements
to come to a particular school with our offering scholarships
and all of those sorts of things, if they're tapping
(09:59):
people on the shoulder, that's going to start to go against.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Our rules and our regulations.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
So we're wanting to be really clear around that so
that we can one people know that they shouldn't be
doing that, and two, if they are doing that, then
we can start to address that the new to school.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There is a certain number of students that you can
have new.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
School, So, you know, people are really clear around that
the new school rules aren't, aren't you But we are
just really making it really clear and reinforcing what they
are so that everyone knows right across the board, you know,
and whether it's cricket, whether it's you know, it's football,
whatever it is, that everyone has a clear understanding around
(10:39):
what that is.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And tim for interested parties, can they access this proposal anywhere.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
It's only actually been sent to our members, So at
this point it's only gone to schools, and that's because
they are our members. They're the ones who we take
guidance from being members of our organization, so it's not
a public document per se, but it is only for
members only, and that's who the feedback that we're expecting from.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're moving now into sport in New Zealand. Schools just
caught up with the news that the school Sport in
New Zealand organization have put ford a document that says
no more year fourteens at school.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
It's not right, it's bad, it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It mostly comes from verse fifteen Rugby and Marty cart
that's been the issue predominantly with kids too old, too big,
pretending to go to school another year and all they wanted.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
To was really play sports.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So they're looking to stamp that out. To Grocott, chair
of school Sport in z also principal at Chiliboys Hi,
he joins us now to discuss term.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I trust you well, yes, I'm very good. Thank you, Darcy.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Great to see the information come out today that after
a lengthy review, you now have an idea around what
you're doing with the dreaded year fourteen situation. And I
would say that the proposed rule change is that the
blanket ban on those students. Now this is a proposed
(01:18):
rule change, what hopes does they have to jump through
to become I suppose law for one of a better phrase.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Yeah, So what we've done is that we've spent a
bit of time working on these eligibility rules. I've now
gone out to schools so out of Principles and schools
around the country and they have about six weeks now
to provide us with some feedback. So we're in a
currently in a consultation phase and we're hoping to get
(01:46):
some really good engagement from Principles and schools around the
country to give us a bit of a stare as
to where they see these rules.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Now, this is not carved in stone. You're plainly interested
in feedback, so it could move, It couldn't wabble to
a degree.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Or yeah, it could do. I mean we do it
by in your review.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So we're doing this every two years, so this is
a it's a fairly normal process. But I guess the
nature of the year fourteen issue means that it's a
little bit more high profile than it's been in the past.
But I would like to think that we've spent quite
a bit of time looking at the eligibility rules. We
think they are in a good place. It probably reflects
where most schools are at and therefore we're really keen
(02:28):
to get that feedback now and to get those locked
in for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It sounds like when you went into this you did
have a mandate because the schools generally overwhelmingly is a word,
voted in favor of this rule change. So it's not
like you're pushing against the tired au well, not to
an extent. I mean at this point, really the year
fourteen rules only been tested with the with rowing at
(02:53):
the Mardy Cup, so that was obviously the really big
one earlier in the year.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But what then.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Indicated is that there was a real depth of feeling
around keeping year four teams out of it, and I
guess we're wanting now to push that forward.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I know that some other regions have picked up on that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I know that Auckland's one A rugby next year are
moving towards no Year fourteens, so it's probably gaining some
momentum and it's also the reason why we're looking at
that for school sport New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So will there be exceptions with this mandate? Do you
believe and what objections do you think are going to face?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I think there is a dispensation process, so we would
look at providing exemptions for people who have a genuine
educational reason. So if they haven't completed their secondary school qualification,
if they're doing NCAA, they haven't completed that and they
genuinely need to be back at year fourteen to finish
(03:52):
that off, that's where we would look at an exemption,
but it would be on an educational basis, not a
sports basis. So if they were coming back and already
had NCAA Level three or or they had a pathway
mapped out for them, and they were simply coming back
to play sport, that wouldn't meet their threshold.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How common is that?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It sounds to me like it does happen in exceptional circumstance,
and it gets pointed at by the media and such
big events as the Marty Cup for example, and first
fifteen rugby. But is this a huge problem in general
across secondary schools team.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's probably not a huge problem, but it is an
issue that where the issue lies is that you know,
for I guess, in a sport, particularly those physical sports
like rowing rugby, that additional twelve months they do have,
you know, I guess they bring that physical ability of
(04:52):
one additional year of school you know, or age, they
are actually physically and in many cases mentally stronger than
other athletes.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And that there is an advantage.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
So what we're just trying to do is probably I
think it back to a little bit more of an
equitable and level playing field and making sure that The
key thing for us, I think Darcy also is that
we're an educational organization. Our aim is really to support
the education of young people. We provide sport as a
(05:25):
byproduct for schools, but really kids are at school for
sport for excuse me, for education, and we don't want
to see them there just for sport. We want to
see them there getting an education, getting learning, having a.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Pathway out of school.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
And we are providing some sport, you know, a whole
range of tournaments and competitions that students can participate in,
but it's not at the you know, it's not having
an impact on their education. We're wanting to see the
kids be educated and sport's a byproduct of that education.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
We sought any advice from major sporting bodies around New Zealand,
like India they even do with this NZ cricket, like
the rowing in Z do they have any engagement.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
At all Ton, Well, we've had What we have done
is obviously Rowing New Zealand has certainly had some input
because of what happened earlier in the year. But what
we have been is earlier this year we had a
forum up in Auckland for all of the NSOs were invited,
so New Zion and Rugby were there and New Football News, Antennas,
(06:34):
a whole range of organizations and we talked really clearly
around the educational aspect of secondary school sport. We talked
about the fact that you know, kids were at school
to be educated and just what I talked about before
that that sport happens at school, but the learning is
the priority. So we've been really clear with those organizations.
(06:57):
We will expect to get some feedback from them around
this as well, but what we're saying they can have
you know that those sports organizations, whether it's football, hockey,
whatever it is, they can have their pathways to produce
their elite athletes. We're not wanting the school sports system
to be the bee or end or of that. Actually,
(07:20):
kids are at school to be doing learning and educate
it and be educated.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
They can love sport and being part of it and.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It helps with that school camaraderie and all of those
sorts of things, but it isn't necessarily a pathway into
professional sport, and so we're just really wanting to be
clear around that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
There's also the issue around home school students in fact
that came to a head recently, didn't when that Amelia
twist that the Mountain Biker couldn't pick up her medal?
So in that space, what can can't you do?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Well, so that I'm probably I don't really want to
comment on that, Darci, because that's still a piece of
work that's that's being worked through. So we're not in
a position to comment on that because that that's something
that we're working on right now.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So maybe in.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A few weeks time we might have some further information
around that, but at the moment, I don't really want
to comment on that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, fair enough, The cutoff point of that is no
year fourteen, you talk about even playing field and the
mental ability and their physical ability, but it's nigh and
impossible to get an even playing field because some kids
advance mentally and physically a lot quicker than the others.
Is it just a lot easier for everyone concerned to
say this is where it finishes, and we're not going
(08:37):
to have well plainly, we're not going to have many exceptions.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, I think that's what we're What we're basically saying
is we want to provide secondary school sport and we're
talking about championship level events, so those top tear events,
you know, whether it's Rank and Cup, the Federation Cup hockey,
you know, it's those, but it's also some maybe some
lower t yer competitions as well. We're really keen to
(09:03):
provide those right across the board for schools, but it
is for students who are in year nine through the
year thirteen, because that is what secondary schooling is about.
I know that students can come back until nineteen years
of age, but really what we're saying is that schools
should be completed at the end of year thirteen, and
that also means that that should be the completion of
(09:24):
your sporting time at the school as well.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And finally, you're dealing with proposed changes as well on
student transfers, on poaching competent teams and the like as well.
What are you looking to achieve there?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, I guess it's really about being completely open and
explicit around what the rules are, so schools know that
if they are going to start approaching students with inducements
to come to a particular school with our offering scholarships
and all of those sorts of things, if they're tapping
(09:59):
people on the shoulder, that's going to start to go against.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Our rules and our regulations.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
So we're wanting to be really clear around that so
that we can one people know that they shouldn't be
doing that, and two, if they are doing that, then
we can start to address that the new to school.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There is a certain number of students that you can
have new.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
School, So, you know, people are really clear around that
the new school rules aren't, aren't you But we are
just really making it really clear and reinforcing what they
are so that everyone knows right across the board, you know,
and whether it's cricket, whether it's you know, it's football,
whatever it is, that everyone has a clear understanding around
(10:39):
what that is.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And tim for interested parties, can they access this proposal anywhere.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
It's only actually been sent to our members, So at
this point it's only gone to schools, and that's because
they are our members. They're the ones who we take
guidance from being members of our organization, so it's not
a public document per se, but it is only for
members only, and that's who the feedback that we're expecting from.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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