November 4, 2025 • 11 mins
The Kiwis defeated Tonga in front of 38,000 passionate fans at Eden Park, but there's one detail that caused some alarm.
Tongan second rower Eli Katoa took a shoulder to the head during warm-ups, and then took two additional head knocks before being replaced in the 51st minute.
He displayed seizure activity on the bench before being rushed to Auckland hospital where he underwent brain surgery.
Former Warriors captain and former Kiwi Tohu Harris joined D'Arcy to voice his concerns.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Quite the spectacular on Sunday at Eden Park. I wish
I could play the hymns that the Tonguan fans were
singing during the event. It was astounding, I told producer Core,
but he's got to get along and watch this. You've
never seen anything unless you've seen a Tonguean crowd and
full song. It is astonishing. Started off great, it was
(00:37):
quite the spectacle. Looked amazing. Thirty eight thousand fans. I
believe it was turned up. I'd say most of those
were Tongand's. It was incredible. But we won't remember that
match for that. Remember it for what happened Tongue and
second roundly Cata. So in the pregame, warmut right, he
took an accidental shoulder to their head. That was friendly fire.
(01:00):
It's one of his teammates knocked him down, appeared to
daze him, but it was clear to play, so he played.
And he took a second shot to the head only
eleven minutes into the game, went off the field for
an hia, which he passed. Early in the second half,
he did another head knocked trying to make attack. All
that ruled him out of the game because it was
(01:21):
second hi a. He was slouching, I suppose as the
best way to describe it, on a seat in the
second half, and as teammates went mate get the meadows over,
so they stretched it himway to Auckland Hospital. We underwent
surgery to remove fluid from his brain. He's now said
to be in stable condition in Auckland Hospital. That's such
(01:42):
good news, but it was an awful series of events.
We're joined now by former Warriors skipper and Q representative
of Paul Harris. He joins us to share his thoughts
on all of this. Goody to who, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I'm good, I'm good, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And great to have you on again. Of course we
came to you because you've had plenty of experience when
it comes to international rug, big league, plenty of experience
with I suppose, the tyranny of head knocks, of being
called off of hia, everything and this is all like
it's concentrated down to one thing. The first up when
(02:19):
you saw what he went through, not the first, the second,
but all three of them, what was your initial feeling.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Oh, I was. I was terrified for him.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Like, as a player, it's probably something that you can't avoid,
is getting a head knock, So so I sort of
know what I guess one bad one feels like, but
he he had multiple throughout the whole day, and then
when I heard what happened after the game, like it
is just deep concern for him and his family and
(02:51):
I'm hoping he's recovering well. But yeah, it was it
was terrifying to see.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Have you been in a situation like this. We've actually
been cleaned out before the first whistle has been blown.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
I've had had a couple probably through the week at training,
but not not in a war them up and and
the footage that I saw of it wasn't slow motion,
so it's it's hard to tell, but it didn't look good.
And yeah, it's it's a it's a tough situation. Like
he he's obviously proud of playing for Tonga and he
(03:22):
wants to be out there with his brothers and to
represent their country and yeah, yeah, so he's he's going
to want to play, and sometimes you sort of just
have to, I guess, protect him from himself, and not
that it was his folders. It was a freak accident,
but yeah, it's it was. It was hard to see,
(03:44):
hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You've been playing rugby league for a long time, you're
selling real estate now, much more sensible, no head highs
or knocks in that particular sport, if you call that.
But over the time that you played, how many times
did you see situations like that where it's more heavily
policed now where players just want to play and they'll
(04:05):
do anything to get back in the line. Again, this
was prevalent early doors, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it wasn't as heavily policed early on,
especially when I started. It sort of comeing towards the
end of my career where a bit harsher protocol around
it come in. But yeah, it's the it's slowly changing.
But players they always will want to play, if that
(04:34):
makes sense. But like it's slowly changing, and that's probably
that's good for players' health and good for the game
because because then you see players with that much talent
stick around a bit longer because they stay healthier. And
but yeah, you see the effects of it, like one
one small one that doesn't look bad can affect your
(04:57):
ability and your reaction times and things like that, and
it opens up for it to happen again throughout the game.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So it's really.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Hard and and obviously Allie's was his situation was the
extreme and you never want to see a player go
through that, So that part's really concerning. But you know,
I think it's something that the league has to continue
to look at and hopefully protect the players as much
as they can.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, the difficult thing here is it doesn't fall under
the protocol. If it doesn't happen during the game, there's
not a lot they can do except trust their own
team doctors. Is there a thought process that maybe that
needs to be stretched out and cover the warm up
and everything there, because technically they didn't do anything illegal
or wrong, but maybe the NRAL or the ARL or
(05:48):
in a league needs to look over this and go, actually,
hold on, it's under our jurisdiction right from when you
get to the park.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, I sort of think I didn't know if that
was covered or not. But they have an independent doctor
at the ground, so I assume that anything that happens
in the ground and that's warm up included, or or
even in the dressing rooms, the independent doctor needs to
be provided footage so you can see what happens. And
(06:14):
I don't again, I don't know the process. It's a
it's a tough one because, yeah, the rule is clear
during the game. Obviously, if it's not in place, they
probably have to look at that because the players, no
matter what, their health needs to come first because you know,
you want these players to be healthy to play long careers.
(06:34):
And yeah, to not have to go through something that
extreme like Ali did. And yeah, because it's it's terrible
to see.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Independent doctors to who can only review incidents that occurred
during the games itself. Okay, that's all they can do,
So that needs to be changed. So the tongue and
doctors and I'm not trying to lay blame on them.
I don't know how much they saw or what they knew,
but it lines with them. And what about the team.
Because Shawn Johnson's come out and heeds filthy understandable. You
(07:04):
will spend a bit of time in shed on grounds
with with Sean Johnson saying it's really hard when you're
a teammate and you see someone doing that, because you've
got to get around them and say, hey, walk get
off the park. But teammates are maybe a little i
suppose reticent to do that, and players maybe won't listen
to their teammates. That's a strange dynamic.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Po Yeah, it's also like during a warm up, the
majority of team of the team probably didn't see it
because they're they're doing different drills or doing different activities
to sort of warm up. So that's a that's a
tough one to sort of judge on. And that's the
same with the team doctors. They they obviously have to
(07:48):
check them, and I'm sure they did, so it's a
tough position for them, especially if he answers all the
right questions and passes all those tests. So maybe it's
the testing that sort of needs to be looked at,
But yeah, it's it's I think in terms of the
independent doctors, if we saw footage at home, then and
(08:12):
that's what the independent doctors look at. They get provided
footage to make these calls. If we were able to
see it at home, then someone probably needed to provide
that to them on the field so that they can
make that judgment call. And yeah, it's a process thing
that needs definitely needs addressing and needs to be looked at,
because yeah, it's a terrible and extreme thing that happened,
(08:36):
and you just just pray that him and his family
all right. But yeah, you don't want to see that happening.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, I think the alarming thing was it's because he
got the knock beforehands wasn't official, then he got the
second not was it ten minutes into the game. If
he had had that and they had have recognized the
first one before the game started, he would have been
marched straight away, regardless of the HIA, but they couldn't,
so they went.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
To a third.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Look, it's tricky because no one wants a doctor, doesn't
want the team getting at the doctor, that doesn't want
anyone dragged off, the teammates, the coach. No one wants
for this to happen. And you mentioned that it's changed
a lot in the time you were playing. How seriously
do you think head knocks are taken out amongst the
playing stuff, the coaching stuff. They paying lip service, or
(09:22):
they actually right in there going No, this is a
real problem.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I can't speak for every club or every team, but
I know that the teams that I've been a part of,
they they treat it very seriously, and especially the doctors
and the coaching stuff. They they are the teams that
I've been a part of, thankfully, they've wanted the players
how to come first. And that's the same as the teammates.
(09:50):
Like you don't want your teammate to go through something
like that, So if he's if an accident happened, or
if he's been physically hurt, you know, your teammates have
put it on themselves to make up for their absence.
And like, thankfully I've been part of teams that have
(10:12):
acted like that and have been like that. But yeah,
I can't speak on every organization or every situation or player,
but yeah, that's my experience, and you hope that more
and more people or league wide.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Doesn't matter what.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Team organization you are, that's how they treat things and
that's the way it's got to be. It's it's got
to be the player's health first.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I mentioned before that you're unlikely to get an HIA
or get knocked out selling real estate. You're at tremains
have lot north real pleasure. As always, thanks very much
for joining us on the program. You guys, get amongst
them and look forward to catching up again soon and
go the Kiwi for this weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You go the Kiwi's thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Quite the spectacular on Sunday at Eden Park. I wish
I could play the hymns that the Tonguan fans were
singing during the event. It was astounding, I told producer Core,
but he's got to get along and watch this. You've
never seen anything unless you've seen a Tonguean crowd and
full song. It is astonishing. Started off great, it was
(00:37):
quite the spectacle. Looked amazing. Thirty eight thousand fans. I
believe it was turned up. I'd say most of those
were Tongand's. It was incredible. But we won't remember that
match for that. Remember it for what happened Tongue and
second roundly Cata. So in the pregame, warmut right, he
took an accidental shoulder to their head. That was friendly fire.
(01:00):
It's one of his teammates knocked him down, appeared to
daze him, but it was clear to play, so he played.
And he took a second shot to the head only
eleven minutes into the game, went off the field for
an hia, which he passed. Early in the second half,
he did another head knocked trying to make attack. All
that ruled him out of the game because it was
(01:21):
second hi a. He was slouching, I suppose as the
best way to describe it, on a seat in the
second half, and as teammates went mate get the meadows over,
so they stretched it himway to Auckland Hospital. We underwent
surgery to remove fluid from his brain. He's now said
to be in stable condition in Auckland Hospital. That's such
(01:42):
good news, but it was an awful series of events.
We're joined now by former Warriors skipper and Q representative
of Paul Harris. He joins us to share his thoughts
on all of this. Goody to who, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I'm good, I'm good, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And great to have you on again. Of course we
came to you because you've had plenty of experience when
it comes to international rug, big league, plenty of experience
with I suppose, the tyranny of head knocks, of being
called off of hia, everything and this is all like
it's concentrated down to one thing. The first up when
(02:19):
you saw what he went through, not the first, the second,
but all three of them, what was your initial feeling.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Oh, I was. I was terrified for him.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Like, as a player, it's probably something that you can't avoid,
is getting a head knock, So so I sort of
know what I guess one bad one feels like, but
he he had multiple throughout the whole day, and then
when I heard what happened after the game, like it
is just deep concern for him and his family and
(02:51):
I'm hoping he's recovering well. But yeah, it was it
was terrifying to see.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Have you been in a situation like this. We've actually
been cleaned out before the first whistle has been blown.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
I've had had a couple probably through the week at training,
but not not in a war them up and and
the footage that I saw of it wasn't slow motion,
so it's it's hard to tell, but it didn't look good.
And yeah, it's it's a it's a tough situation. Like
he he's obviously proud of playing for Tonga and he
(03:22):
wants to be out there with his brothers and to
represent their country and yeah, yeah, so he's he's going
to want to play, and sometimes you sort of just
have to, I guess, protect him from himself, and not
that it was his folders. It was a freak accident,
but yeah, it's it was. It was hard to see,
(03:44):
hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You've been playing rugby league for a long time, you're
selling real estate now, much more sensible, no head highs
or knocks in that particular sport, if you call that.
But over the time that you played, how many times
did you see situations like that where it's more heavily
policed now where players just want to play and they'll
(04:05):
do anything to get back in the line. Again, this
was prevalent early doors, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it wasn't as heavily policed early on,
especially when I started. It sort of comeing towards the
end of my career where a bit harsher protocol around
it come in. But yeah, it's the it's slowly changing.
But players they always will want to play, if that
(04:34):
makes sense. But like it's slowly changing, and that's probably
that's good for players' health and good for the game
because because then you see players with that much talent
stick around a bit longer because they stay healthier. And
but yeah, you see the effects of it, like one
one small one that doesn't look bad can affect your
(04:57):
ability and your reaction times and things like that, and
it opens up for it to happen again throughout the game.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So it's really.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Hard and and obviously Allie's was his situation was the
extreme and you never want to see a player go
through that, So that part's really concerning. But you know,
I think it's something that the league has to continue
to look at and hopefully protect the players as much
as they can.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, the difficult thing here is it doesn't fall under
the protocol. If it doesn't happen during the game, there's
not a lot they can do except trust their own
team doctors. Is there a thought process that maybe that
needs to be stretched out and cover the warm up
and everything there, because technically they didn't do anything illegal
or wrong, but maybe the NRAL or the ARL or
(05:48):
in a league needs to look over this and go, actually,
hold on, it's under our jurisdiction right from when you
get to the park.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, I sort of think I didn't know if that
was covered or not. But they have an independent doctor
at the ground, so I assume that anything that happens
in the ground and that's warm up included, or or
even in the dressing rooms, the independent doctor needs to
be provided footage so you can see what happens. And
(06:14):
I don't again, I don't know the process. It's a
it's a tough one because, yeah, the rule is clear
during the game. Obviously, if it's not in place, they
probably have to look at that because the players, no
matter what, their health needs to come first because you know,
you want these players to be healthy to play long careers.
(06:34):
And yeah, to not have to go through something that
extreme like Ali did. And yeah, because it's it's terrible
to see.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Independent doctors to who can only review incidents that occurred
during the games itself. Okay, that's all they can do,
So that needs to be changed. So the tongue and
doctors and I'm not trying to lay blame on them.
I don't know how much they saw or what they knew,
but it lines with them. And what about the team.
Because Shawn Johnson's come out and heeds filthy understandable. You
(07:04):
will spend a bit of time in shed on grounds
with with Sean Johnson saying it's really hard when you're
a teammate and you see someone doing that, because you've
got to get around them and say, hey, walk get
off the park. But teammates are maybe a little i
suppose reticent to do that, and players maybe won't listen
to their teammates. That's a strange dynamic.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Po Yeah, it's also like during a warm up, the
majority of team of the team probably didn't see it
because they're they're doing different drills or doing different activities
to sort of warm up. So that's a that's a
tough one to sort of judge on. And that's the
same with the team doctors. They they obviously have to
(07:48):
check them, and I'm sure they did, so it's a
tough position for them, especially if he answers all the
right questions and passes all those tests. So maybe it's
the testing that sort of needs to be looked at,
But yeah, it's it's I think in terms of the
independent doctors, if we saw footage at home, then and
(08:12):
that's what the independent doctors look at. They get provided
footage to make these calls. If we were able to
see it at home, then someone probably needed to provide
that to them on the field so that they can
make that judgment call. And yeah, it's a process thing
that needs definitely needs addressing and needs to be looked at,
because yeah, it's a terrible and extreme thing that happened,
(08:36):
and you just just pray that him and his family
all right. But yeah, you don't want to see that happening.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, I think the alarming thing was it's because he
got the knock beforehands wasn't official, then he got the
second not was it ten minutes into the game. If
he had had that and they had have recognized the
first one before the game started, he would have been
marched straight away, regardless of the HIA, but they couldn't,
so they went.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
To a third.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Look, it's tricky because no one wants a doctor, doesn't
want the team getting at the doctor, that doesn't want
anyone dragged off, the teammates, the coach. No one wants
for this to happen. And you mentioned that it's changed
a lot in the time you were playing. How seriously
do you think head knocks are taken out amongst the
playing stuff, the coaching stuff. They paying lip service, or
(09:22):
they actually right in there going No, this is a
real problem.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I can't speak for every club or every team, but
I know that the teams that I've been a part of,
they they treat it very seriously, and especially the doctors
and the coaching stuff. They they are the teams that
I've been a part of, thankfully, they've wanted the players
how to come first. And that's the same as the teammates.
(09:50):
Like you don't want your teammate to go through something
like that, So if he's if an accident happened, or
if he's been physically hurt, you know, your teammates have
put it on themselves to make up for their absence.
And like, thankfully I've been part of teams that have
(10:12):
acted like that and have been like that. But yeah,
I can't speak on every organization or every situation or player,
but yeah, that's my experience, and you hope that more
and more people or league wide.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Doesn't matter what.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Team organization you are, that's how they treat things and
that's the way it's got to be. It's it's got
to be the player's health first.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I mentioned before that you're unlikely to get an HIA
or get knocked out selling real estate. You're at tremains
have lot north real pleasure. As always, thanks very much
for joining us on the program. You guys, get amongst
them and look forward to catching up again soon and
go the Kiwi for this weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You go the Kiwi's thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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