July 14, 2025 • 16 mins
Coach Scott Robertson's laying down a challenge to the All Blacks squad with their series against France already in the bag ahead of the third and final test.
The hosts have regained the Dave Gallaher Trophy with wins in the opening pair of matches in Dunedin and Wellington.
Rugby commentator Tony Johnson joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I got down the left hand light, what happened there?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Gam right, God sneaks away from outside of twenty two
and the All Black score the first of.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The night and the first of a number of tries
in Wellington on Saturday night, which saw the All Blacks
reclaim the Dave Gallaha Trophy, beating France forty three seventeen
in Wellington to take an unassailable two nill lead in
this three match series with the third Test in Hamilton
this coming Saturday. Scott sport commentator Tony Johnson with us
(00:42):
on Sports Talk TJ. Thanks for your time. How satisfied
you reckon Scott Robertson will be after his side's performance
on Saturday night compared to Dunedin the week before.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think you'd be a lot happier after the second
Test than he was after the first. I think they
were satisfied enough to get the wind Piney, but there
were a lot of work ons and I think most
of those work ons we saw improvement in those on
Saturday night. Still a few things to work on some
of the set. Sorry, the kickoff receptions weren't brilliant, just
one or two little aspects here, and they went through
(01:15):
a bit of a period in the second half where
things got a little bit sloppy, but by then I
guess the tests they knew they were going to win
the test, probably by a comfortable margin. Changes coming on
sometimes happens in test matches, but no, I think by
and large, I think they'll be really pleased with the
steps that they took in the second test, and I
(01:37):
guess now the task is to continue that improvement when
they go to Hamilton for the third.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
In terms of the things that you saw biggest improvement
and the ones that Scott Robertson even highlighted after the
first test that he was hoping to see some gains
and what impressed you specifically, particularly in that first half
on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I picked the platform that the team laid first of all,
the forwards have done a really good job and it's
exciting to see the way Fabian Holland has taken to
test rugby really big man in the middle of that
all black packing got them off to a good start.
He spook to French, but at line out time he's
been winning all his own line out ball, but he
was a real menace there. We know how good he
(02:18):
is around the breakdown. But I think what we saw
was just evidence that a couple of tweaks that they've
made to the team in terms of the personnel, they
did the right thing by giving them another chance. And
so what we saw was at tupaul Vai and just
a shame that he picked up that head knock and
has ruled him out of Hamilton, but growing in that
number six Jersey that there's some depth potentially at Locke
(02:42):
when you consider how well Patrick Tuipolotu played in the
place of Scott Barrett Holland just looks there to stay
and who knows what his ceiling is, and you've still
got Sam Dowry to come back, and a couple of
other guys on the fringe. So I think maybe the
development of Tupulva as a guy who could be a
very good Test lock, but he could be an extremely
good Test number six. The balance looked good, theress and
(03:06):
look good. They carried the ball really strongly and that
kind of set the platform for what was to follow,
and obviously we saw some good back player as well.
So to me that was just I think it was
just across the board, like a five to six percent improvement,
which at that level is usually quite significant, and I
(03:28):
think that was probably the most pleasing thing that they
stepped it up. They addressed some of the issues that
that had in Duneden, and you know, it's there's still
room for improvement, but everything that can improve is certainly
of the fixable variety. There's nothing in there that's sort
of saying, boy, you know, that's not working or this
(03:49):
needs to change or something like that. It's just a
general across the board development of the team and the
very positive I.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Think to Paul v was one of the two players
I wanted to get your view on. So let's start
with him. Have you seen enough? Is he the man
to wear six in these really big test matches to
come later in the year.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, when you consider how little he's actually played there,
I think he'd played He started one Test before this
series at number six and I'm pretty sure they lost
that one. And he's had a few games there, but
not many for the Chiefs. But he fills that tight
loose role where a guy who has to have the
ability of a tight foward to move bodies at the
(04:30):
breakdown that sort of thing. But he makes his tackles.
He's a very good, strong, direct runner. He runs quite
low and that makes him hard to stop. And of
course he's a very good lineout forward. They've got plenty
of options at line out with him being in the team.
I just had a feeling at times last year they
just didn't have enough height. They needed an extra tall player.
(04:50):
They were operating with a reasonably small, loose forward trio
and I think he's provided the balance there. But the
other thing too is you know, he's got a good
rugby IQ. He's an intelligent player. He's a player who
is improving all the time. I think definitely having him
start the game and Sammy Penny Female coming off the bench.
(05:14):
We know what a good impact player he can be
and don't forget at some point in the future Shannon
Frizzell might come back into the mix as well. So
there's some depth there. But also the balance enables Ardie
Save to play where I think he definitely plays best,
and that's on the open side.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
The other player I want to get you view was
Billy Proctor, another who's been given opportunities consecutive test matches
in the thirteen Jersey. I think by his own admission,
he was better in Wellington than he was in Dunedin.
Does he appeal to you, TJ as the long term
All Black center.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, he's certainly a player that I really liked watching
play over the last few years. I think at twenty
eighteen when he played his first test, that was up
in Tokyo. If I'm not mistaken, Piney, he's always looked
the goods, of course at super rugby level, and the
way the Hurricanes play been good to They've been good
enough to be able to create that half a meter
(06:11):
and half a second of time and space that you
don't always get at the top level of the game,
and he's a guy that can make the most of that.
His first test, I think he kind of got singled
out because there was a mistackle. He came up, got
himself into a bad spot and tried to make the
tackle and the guy stepped through him at a sodby
the fallback, and I guess that was quite glaring, but
(06:32):
it's not the sort of mistake you see from him.
Look I like the idea of him being at center.
I still think that recall Yolani is a guy who
could be play well at center as well, but particularly
with the sad news today that Caleb Clark's going to
be out for probably a couple of months, may well
miss the Rugby Championship. That's the combination I think going
(06:54):
forward with Billy Proper at center and recall Yann on
the left wing. I think the injury to Caleb Clark
probably means that that is going to be the combination
and it doesn't bring with any great concerns. I think
it's a good combone and it'll get better as they
(07:14):
get time working together.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
How big a step up will the All Blacks have
to make when South Africa visit in September.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh, they'll have to make a big step up. But
I think they'll have to make another step up again
a match of the series. Guilty A won't want to
go home empty handed. He'll at least want to go
home on a positive note. So you know, having mixed
the team around a fair bit in the first two
test matches and rather treated it as a bit of
(07:44):
a development exercise, which doesn't set all that well with
me and a lot of the old fashioned types, the
purists of the game, But that's what he's done, but
he'll put his best team out this week and so
I think they'll probably have to take another step up
even this weekend. But look, there's no doubt about it.
At the moment, the spring Box are formidable. They built
tremendous depths. They're trying all sorts of whacky things just
(08:07):
to try and shake the tree a wee bit and
see what can stick and what doesn't. And they're just
so cop full of confidence. There's a real swagger about
them at the moment. So there's no question there are
things that the All Blacks are going to have to
be better at. Their attention to detail under the high
bores as one of them. I think there was an
improvement of that on Saturday. Definitely, that was probably the
(08:30):
biggest work on to come out of Dunedin, that their
work under the high ball wasn't great at all and
that it'll have to be exceptional to the fuse the
spring Box kicking game. So I think that's one big
area that they'll have to keep working on. I think
they've got the attacking mouse there. The defense stepped up
really as well. At the weekend. They got broken a
(08:52):
few times and dun Eden and the defense improved and
that's a really positive sign as well, because the Springboks
are going to challenge you and lots of different ways.
So I think Justin Marshall probably summed it up best
with a comment that he made last night. He said,
if the All Blacks were playing the spring box right now,
(09:14):
you're back the spring box. But if there are signs
of an upward curve the way this team has started
the year, then by the time they get here for
that Test match in a month or so's time was
a two months time, you know, the All Blacks are
going to be in much better shape to take them
on in the two Test matches here and a chance
(09:39):
to beat them and keep that record at Eden Park alive.
I don't have to continue to improve.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What did you make of South Africa's innovations against Italy
deliberately forcing a scrime to start the game line out
in the middle of the park. What did you make
of it all?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, it's kind of amusing in a way because a
bit of the mad Scientist about Rassi Erasmus. I mean,
he is a unique character and you don't agree with
every thing that he does. I mean I still think
he got up very lightly for his conduct towards the
referee and the referees in the Lions series a couple
(10:15):
of years ago or four years ago it is now,
but you just got to admire the way the guy,
the way the guy just tries to change things up.
They've bought new dimensions to South African rugbian. Obviously, Tony
Brown sort of guy, a great sidekick to have in
those sorts of scenarios. The two things that we saw
(10:36):
at the weekend, firstly the quick kickoff. I mean that
was just a like a show of strength. It's like
we want to have a scrum within the first minute
of the game because we think we're going to boss
you at scrum time. The only thing was that what
they did was illegal because it was a deliberate infringement.
(10:58):
They deliberately broke a law which is that the ball
has to go ten meters. They made no effort to
do that and so and also the player that was
at Ester Hayes, it's got ahead of the ball anyway,
so he was offside, so it should have been a
penalty too. Italy on halfway right from the off, the
ref got that wrong. So I don't think we'll see
(11:19):
that one again. The other one is more perplexing, and
that's the issue with the guy taking the high pass,
jumping up, bringing it down and setting them all in midfield.
It's outrageous the way they've done it. It's not original.
Apparently an under fourteen team at Paul Russ it's a
school in Stellenbosch apparently tried it. Someone took the Springbok
(11:44):
management or coaching staff off about it and so they
thought they'd try it. What's really effective about it is
that as long as they set it up right and
don't put the lifters in front of the ball claimer
the jumper when he comes down as a line out,
then there's nothing illegal about what they're doing. They can
(12:05):
have their wed they're more all set up ready to
go the minute his feet at the ground, and the
options for the opposition is that you pretty much have
to wait for them to You can't. You can contest
in the air, but you like a line out. If
you hook an arm around the jumper's hand or something
(12:26):
like that, you'll get penalized for playing someone in the air.
So there's that you can't knock the blocks or the
lifters out of the way because a mall hasn't formed,
so that would be illegal play. It's actually I think
this one is going to be discussed at great lengths
by the referees just to see what whether it's illegal outwardly,
(12:51):
I don't think there's anything illegal about it. It's very,
very difficult to defend without collapsing. I think you could
sack it immediately like you do with a line out
and bring it down. Other than that you're just going
to have to get some get some bodies behind the
ball and try and stop the driving more because it
worked really well, So it's an interesting one. I saw
(13:14):
Nigel Owen's comment about it and he basically said, yeah,
this is a tough one because what they did didn't
appear to be illegal. Both times they got penalty advantage,
and so that's going to be a talking point. The
big question to me is do they keep trying to
do it or do they keep it up their sleeve
(13:34):
for a big moment in a Test match, Because if
the more they do it, the more people are going
to scrutinize it and try and find something wrong with it.
So I think that might be one that they tried
a couple of times. They might just put that away
and bring it out when you least expect it, and.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Who knows what else they have up their sleeve. TJ
always love chatting rugby with you, mate, Thanks for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Ak Piney Chef go on mate.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That is Tony Johnson from Sky Sport with us on
the show. Those innovations by the spring Box, I'm sure
you've had a look at them. If you haven't, I'll
just briefly explain. So at the very start of their
game against Italy they had a man in front of
the ball and didn't kick at ten meters, which you know,
either of those two things, if they're done inadvertently by
(14:18):
a team, leads to a scrum on halfway with the
feed to the other team. So what South Africa have
done has done it deliberately, forcing that scrum at the start,
and it's caught everybody by surprise, including the referee because
in examining it, they've actually broken the law on purpose
and you're not allowed to do that. It should have
(14:41):
been a penalty to Italy because there are second five
was in front of the ball. He's done it on purpose.
I mean it's a little bit subjective in terms of
whether he's trying to kick at ten meters. He's certainly not,
so you could say, look intentionally, in those two ways,
they have broken the rules of the game, so it
should have been a penalty. So but it caught everybody
(15:04):
by surprise. I just love the innovation. You know, we're like, oh,
what's going on? What are they doing? And then you
realize they want a scrum first up, which is an
opposition feed so that they can dominance right from the
very start of the game. It's then basically beating their
chest and saying, our scrum is all powerful. The second
(15:25):
one is the midfield. It's like a line out right.
You think about how a lineout forms. They throw the
ball in and whoever's receiving the ball is lifted by
a couple of his teammates up into a high position
to get the ball, bring it down, and then they
might go into a rolling mall exactly the same accepted
done in the middle of the field from the base
(15:46):
of a ruck. The larfback's given it off to the
first receiver who's been lifted up in the air by
his mates, brought it down. Others wrap around and then
they start a mall in the middle of the field
again and just listening to TJ there hard to defend,
hard to be ready for. You don't know when they're
going to do it, at least in a line out,
you know, okay to line out, they might form up
(16:08):
and start a rolling mall. This is the kind of
thing in the middle of the part they can do anytime.
But yeah, Nigel Owen's the former top top referee, has
had to look at it today and said, look, you
know there are parts of it that could be illegal.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talk
sa'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I got down the left hand light, what happened there?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Gam right, God sneaks away from outside of twenty two
and the All Black score the first of.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The night and the first of a number of tries
in Wellington on Saturday night, which saw the All Blacks
reclaim the Dave Gallaha Trophy, beating France forty three seventeen
in Wellington to take an unassailable two nill lead in
this three match series with the third Test in Hamilton
this coming Saturday. Scott sport commentator Tony Johnson with us
(00:42):
on Sports Talk TJ. Thanks for your time. How satisfied
you reckon Scott Robertson will be after his side's performance
on Saturday night compared to Dunedin the week before.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think you'd be a lot happier after the second
Test than he was after the first. I think they
were satisfied enough to get the wind Piney, but there
were a lot of work ons and I think most
of those work ons we saw improvement in those on
Saturday night. Still a few things to work on some
of the set. Sorry, the kickoff receptions weren't brilliant, just
one or two little aspects here, and they went through
(01:15):
a bit of a period in the second half where
things got a little bit sloppy, but by then I
guess the tests they knew they were going to win
the test, probably by a comfortable margin. Changes coming on
sometimes happens in test matches, but no, I think by
and large, I think they'll be really pleased with the
steps that they took in the second test, and I
(01:37):
guess now the task is to continue that improvement when
they go to Hamilton for the third.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
In terms of the things that you saw biggest improvement
and the ones that Scott Robertson even highlighted after the
first test that he was hoping to see some gains
and what impressed you specifically, particularly in that first half
on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I picked the platform that the team laid first of all,
the forwards have done a really good job and it's
exciting to see the way Fabian Holland has taken to
test rugby really big man in the middle of that
all black packing got them off to a good start.
He spook to French, but at line out time he's
been winning all his own line out ball, but he
was a real menace there. We know how good he
(02:18):
is around the breakdown. But I think what we saw
was just evidence that a couple of tweaks that they've
made to the team in terms of the personnel, they
did the right thing by giving them another chance. And
so what we saw was at tupaul Vai and just
a shame that he picked up that head knock and
has ruled him out of Hamilton, but growing in that
number six Jersey that there's some depth potentially at Locke
(02:42):
when you consider how well Patrick Tuipolotu played in the
place of Scott Barrett Holland just looks there to stay
and who knows what his ceiling is, and you've still
got Sam Dowry to come back, and a couple of
other guys on the fringe. So I think maybe the
development of Tupulva as a guy who could be a
very good Test lock, but he could be an extremely
good Test number six. The balance looked good, theress and
(03:06):
look good. They carried the ball really strongly and that
kind of set the platform for what was to follow,
and obviously we saw some good back player as well.
So to me that was just I think it was
just across the board, like a five to six percent improvement,
which at that level is usually quite significant, and I
(03:28):
think that was probably the most pleasing thing that they
stepped it up. They addressed some of the issues that
that had in Duneden, and you know, it's there's still
room for improvement, but everything that can improve is certainly
of the fixable variety. There's nothing in there that's sort
of saying, boy, you know, that's not working or this
(03:49):
needs to change or something like that. It's just a
general across the board development of the team and the
very positive I.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Think to Paul v was one of the two players
I wanted to get your view on. So let's start
with him. Have you seen enough? Is he the man
to wear six in these really big test matches to
come later in the year.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, when you consider how little he's actually played there,
I think he'd played He started one Test before this
series at number six and I'm pretty sure they lost
that one. And he's had a few games there, but
not many for the Chiefs. But he fills that tight
loose role where a guy who has to have the
ability of a tight foward to move bodies at the
(04:30):
breakdown that sort of thing. But he makes his tackles.
He's a very good, strong, direct runner. He runs quite
low and that makes him hard to stop. And of
course he's a very good lineout forward. They've got plenty
of options at line out with him being in the team.
I just had a feeling at times last year they
just didn't have enough height. They needed an extra tall player.
(04:50):
They were operating with a reasonably small, loose forward trio
and I think he's provided the balance there. But the
other thing too is you know, he's got a good
rugby IQ. He's an intelligent player. He's a player who
is improving all the time. I think definitely having him
start the game and Sammy Penny Female coming off the bench.
(05:14):
We know what a good impact player he can be
and don't forget at some point in the future Shannon
Frizzell might come back into the mix as well. So
there's some depth there. But also the balance enables Ardie
Save to play where I think he definitely plays best,
and that's on the open side.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
The other player I want to get you view was
Billy Proctor, another who's been given opportunities consecutive test matches
in the thirteen Jersey. I think by his own admission,
he was better in Wellington than he was in Dunedin.
Does he appeal to you, TJ as the long term
All Black center.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, he's certainly a player that I really liked watching
play over the last few years. I think at twenty
eighteen when he played his first test, that was up
in Tokyo. If I'm not mistaken, Piney, he's always looked
the goods, of course at super rugby level, and the
way the Hurricanes play been good to They've been good
enough to be able to create that half a meter
(06:11):
and half a second of time and space that you
don't always get at the top level of the game,
and he's a guy that can make the most of that.
His first test, I think he kind of got singled
out because there was a mistackle. He came up, got
himself into a bad spot and tried to make the
tackle and the guy stepped through him at a sodby
the fallback, and I guess that was quite glaring, but
(06:32):
it's not the sort of mistake you see from him.
Look I like the idea of him being at center.
I still think that recall Yolani is a guy who
could be play well at center as well, but particularly
with the sad news today that Caleb Clark's going to
be out for probably a couple of months, may well
miss the Rugby Championship. That's the combination I think going
(06:54):
forward with Billy Proper at center and recall Yann on
the left wing. I think the injury to Caleb Clark
probably means that that is going to be the combination
and it doesn't bring with any great concerns. I think
it's a good combone and it'll get better as they
(07:14):
get time working together.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
How big a step up will the All Blacks have
to make when South Africa visit in September.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh, they'll have to make a big step up. But
I think they'll have to make another step up again
a match of the series. Guilty A won't want to
go home empty handed. He'll at least want to go
home on a positive note. So you know, having mixed
the team around a fair bit in the first two
test matches and rather treated it as a bit of
(07:44):
a development exercise, which doesn't set all that well with
me and a lot of the old fashioned types, the
purists of the game, But that's what he's done, but
he'll put his best team out this week and so
I think they'll probably have to take another step up
even this weekend. But look, there's no doubt about it.
At the moment, the spring Box are formidable. They built
tremendous depths. They're trying all sorts of whacky things just
(08:07):
to try and shake the tree a wee bit and
see what can stick and what doesn't. And they're just
so cop full of confidence. There's a real swagger about
them at the moment. So there's no question there are
things that the All Blacks are going to have to
be better at. Their attention to detail under the high
bores as one of them. I think there was an
improvement of that on Saturday. Definitely, that was probably the
(08:30):
biggest work on to come out of Dunedin, that their
work under the high ball wasn't great at all and
that it'll have to be exceptional to the fuse the
spring Box kicking game. So I think that's one big
area that they'll have to keep working on. I think
they've got the attacking mouse there. The defense stepped up
really as well. At the weekend. They got broken a
(08:52):
few times and dun Eden and the defense improved and
that's a really positive sign as well, because the Springboks
are going to challenge you and lots of different ways.
So I think Justin Marshall probably summed it up best
with a comment that he made last night. He said,
if the All Blacks were playing the spring box right now,
(09:14):
you're back the spring box. But if there are signs
of an upward curve the way this team has started
the year, then by the time they get here for
that Test match in a month or so's time was
a two months time, you know, the All Blacks are
going to be in much better shape to take them
on in the two Test matches here and a chance
(09:39):
to beat them and keep that record at Eden Park alive.
I don't have to continue to improve.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What did you make of South Africa's innovations against Italy
deliberately forcing a scrime to start the game line out
in the middle of the park. What did you make
of it all?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, it's kind of amusing in a way because a
bit of the mad Scientist about Rassi Erasmus. I mean,
he is a unique character and you don't agree with
every thing that he does. I mean I still think
he got up very lightly for his conduct towards the
referee and the referees in the Lions series a couple
(10:15):
of years ago or four years ago it is now,
but you just got to admire the way the guy,
the way the guy just tries to change things up.
They've bought new dimensions to South African rugbian. Obviously, Tony
Brown sort of guy, a great sidekick to have in
those sorts of scenarios. The two things that we saw
(10:36):
at the weekend, firstly the quick kickoff. I mean that
was just a like a show of strength. It's like
we want to have a scrum within the first minute
of the game because we think we're going to boss
you at scrum time. The only thing was that what
they did was illegal because it was a deliberate infringement.
(10:58):
They deliberately broke a law which is that the ball
has to go ten meters. They made no effort to
do that and so and also the player that was
at Ester Hayes, it's got ahead of the ball anyway,
so he was offside, so it should have been a
penalty too. Italy on halfway right from the off, the
ref got that wrong. So I don't think we'll see
(11:19):
that one again. The other one is more perplexing, and
that's the issue with the guy taking the high pass,
jumping up, bringing it down and setting them all in midfield.
It's outrageous the way they've done it. It's not original.
Apparently an under fourteen team at Paul Russ it's a
school in Stellenbosch apparently tried it. Someone took the Springbok
(11:44):
management or coaching staff off about it and so they
thought they'd try it. What's really effective about it is
that as long as they set it up right and
don't put the lifters in front of the ball claimer
the jumper when he comes down as a line out,
then there's nothing illegal about what they're doing. They can
(12:05):
have their wed they're more all set up ready to
go the minute his feet at the ground, and the
options for the opposition is that you pretty much have
to wait for them to You can't. You can contest
in the air, but you like a line out. If
you hook an arm around the jumper's hand or something
(12:26):
like that, you'll get penalized for playing someone in the air.
So there's that you can't knock the blocks or the
lifters out of the way because a mall hasn't formed,
so that would be illegal play. It's actually I think
this one is going to be discussed at great lengths
by the referees just to see what whether it's illegal outwardly,
(12:51):
I don't think there's anything illegal about it. It's very,
very difficult to defend without collapsing. I think you could
sack it immediately like you do with a line out
and bring it down. Other than that you're just going
to have to get some get some bodies behind the
ball and try and stop the driving more because it
worked really well, So it's an interesting one. I saw
(13:14):
Nigel Owen's comment about it and he basically said, yeah,
this is a tough one because what they did didn't
appear to be illegal. Both times they got penalty advantage,
and so that's going to be a talking point. The
big question to me is do they keep trying to
do it or do they keep it up their sleeve
(13:34):
for a big moment in a Test match, Because if
the more they do it, the more people are going
to scrutinize it and try and find something wrong with it.
So I think that might be one that they tried
a couple of times. They might just put that away
and bring it out when you least expect it, and.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Who knows what else they have up their sleeve. TJ
always love chatting rugby with you, mate, Thanks for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Ak Piney Chef go on mate.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That is Tony Johnson from Sky Sport with us on
the show. Those innovations by the spring Box, I'm sure
you've had a look at them. If you haven't, I'll
just briefly explain. So at the very start of their
game against Italy they had a man in front of
the ball and didn't kick at ten meters, which you know,
either of those two things, if they're done inadvertently by
(14:18):
a team, leads to a scrum on halfway with the
feed to the other team. So what South Africa have
done has done it deliberately, forcing that scrum at the start,
and it's caught everybody by surprise, including the referee because
in examining it, they've actually broken the law on purpose
and you're not allowed to do that. It should have
(14:41):
been a penalty to Italy because there are second five
was in front of the ball. He's done it on purpose.
I mean it's a little bit subjective in terms of
whether he's trying to kick at ten meters. He's certainly not,
so you could say, look intentionally, in those two ways,
they have broken the rules of the game, so it
should have been a penalty. So but it caught everybody
(15:04):
by surprise. I just love the innovation. You know, we're like, oh,
what's going on? What are they doing? And then you
realize they want a scrum first up, which is an
opposition feed so that they can dominance right from the
very start of the game. It's then basically beating their
chest and saying, our scrum is all powerful. The second
(15:25):
one is the midfield. It's like a line out right.
You think about how a lineout forms. They throw the
ball in and whoever's receiving the ball is lifted by
a couple of his teammates up into a high position
to get the ball, bring it down, and then they
might go into a rolling mall exactly the same accepted
done in the middle of the field from the base
(15:46):
of a ruck. The larfback's given it off to the
first receiver who's been lifted up in the air by
his mates, brought it down. Others wrap around and then
they start a mall in the middle of the field
again and just listening to TJ there hard to defend,
hard to be ready for. You don't know when they're
going to do it, at least in a line out,
you know, okay to line out, they might form up
(16:08):
and start a rolling mall. This is the kind of
thing in the middle of the part they can do anytime.
But yeah, Nigel Owen's the former top top referee, has
had to look at it today and said, look, you
know there are parts of it that could be illegal.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
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