Gregor Paul has called for an end to the post-game f-bomb in professional sport.
Black Ferns Sevens captain Sarah Hirini dropped an f-bomb after winning the Sevens Series earlier this week.
Tony Johnson was holding a mic in front of Jerry Collins when he swore in 2006, Tony spoke to D'Arcy Waldegrave on Sportstalk.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk SED be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Right, let's talk potty mouth TV. Not necessarily from the presenters.
I probably leaned into that a couple of times myself.
Back in the day, the station I worked with was reckless.
We could pretty much do what we wanted. It's changed
a bit now, but the people being interviewed and the
slippage of the F bomb, this has been coming to
(00:33):
focus us. Sarah hidden he dropped one after her team
beat up on Australia and won the sevens over in
Los Angeles. So a man who's been there, right at
the forefront of it is Tony Johnson. He's going to
tell us all about that and the limitations, the requirements,
and I suppose the capacity for us to forgive if
(00:55):
someone says who that nearly came out. Good evening. Tony Johnson, Hello, Darcy,
you've been around.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I was going to say, how the something.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks mate, Let's not do it now, but that's the
discussion point. Look, I don't want to say that you're
a veteran, but you're a veteran. You've been around broadcasting
for a long long time. You would have been there
when if you uttered the word bugger. I mean, we're
not talking quite Peter Jones days now, But that was
a bit of a stretch this day and age, and
Gregor Paul wrote a piece about it. Today it appears
(01:28):
like it's open slaver. It's changed him minstly in the
last well forty years, hasn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh, the boundaries certainly have changed. I mean you used
the word bugger. Well, of course, you know, famously Toyota
did a commercial. But back in the day, I think
the first time that ever came onto the screen, sorry,
under the sound waves would have been nineteen fifty six
when Peter Jones, after he scored that try that beat
the spring Box at Eton Park, famously got on the
(01:55):
microphone that it was, you know, to the crowd and
to the nation and said, well, ladies and gentlemen, I
hope I never play another game like that. I'm absolutely buggered.
And that was caused a bit of a sensation, I mean,
because the country was in such a state of euphoria
about beating the spring box nothing else really mattered. But
of course nowadays, you know, it is a lot different,
(02:15):
just in terms of you know, how often you hear
words that once upon a time would have caused outrage
being used. And I suppose it's just a question as
really is where are the lines drawn now when.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You're broadcasting the right here and right now? And we
talk about broadcasting standards, and we know they can sometimes
come down in like a ton of bricks, But what
instruction are you wonder regards the language you're allowed to use?
Not that you would do that because you're an old
school broadcast that actually understands the beauty thinglish language, but
(02:48):
what sits over you? And what about the players who
are interviewing? What sits over there? Is there anything in place?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, I've never ever been spoken to about it. I
don't think anyone ever needed to speak to us about it.
Was just accepted that if you are broadcasting, if you
are a commentator or a presenter, then you just don't
use any words that will cause offense. I mean, I
was involved in a very infamous or famous moment back
(03:15):
in two thousand and six, and I'm sure people will
remember it. I think it might have been mentioned in
the story in the Herald where I was in Argentina,
Buenos Aires and the captain of the day was Jerry
Collins and the All Blacks had beaten Argentina. They hadn't
played particularly well. I think they went there with about
a three score a three quarter strength team. The idea
(03:37):
being that it was a little thank you for the
vote that Argentina gave a New Zealand support for the
allocation of the twenty eleven Rugby World Cup. Anyway, I
interviewed Jerry at the end of the game and eventually
we managed to track him down and he wandered over
and he acknowledged that they hadn't played very well and
he said, I suppose people at home won't be too
(03:59):
happy about that, but who gives us insert the word?
And that caused quite a commotion, I think because it
was Jerry Collins, because it was a bit of a
one off I suppose seen as a bit of a
slip of the tongue or whatever. Yeah, there was a
commotion about it. I don't know how many people were
actually offended by it, but that was to say, that
was Jerry. That was something that was said in the moment.
(04:22):
I think it's when it starts to become more common usage.
That's when people will start drawing lines about what really
is acceptable, and also just remind people that they are
seen as role models, if you like, and that there
are young people that will be influenced by their conduct.
(04:46):
And also that if you're trying to grow the game,
you're trying to grow it in parts of the world
where maybe that sort of language is simply is not accepted.
And so I think players are broadcast whoever have to
be mindful of that and what you know, Okay, there's
the odd slip of the tongue, but I mean, be
careful perhaps next time not to let that word come
(05:07):
out when the tongue slips.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
When broadcasters and will go to sky, they get people
on the field straight after the game and the hubbub
of the game and the sweat and the stress, and
put a microphone in players' faces. Do you think that
not encourages but gives maybe open slather because of the
heat of the moment. These guys are when I use
the Jones's and they're buggered things slip out? Are they
(05:32):
bringing on themselves the broadcasters?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh yeah, look, I understand what you're saying there, and
you know, it's something that we have to be mindful
of that when you are interviewing people in the heat
of the moment, or under exhaustion, or that there's been
some stress. You know, there is always the risk that
something will slip out. But you know, Richie mccauty, how
long did he captain the All Blacks? For Sean Fitzpatrick.
(05:54):
You never heard them say it. And you know, look,
I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy
here because you and I both know you know what
these words. We hear these words a lot and we're
probably not offended by what I'm saying is is that
if you're looking, you know, the broad reach of the game,
you just got to be careful that you don't you know,
people can take great offense to it. And yeah, sure
(06:15):
there's a risk. I think the biggest risk is when
they start putting microphones into places to overhear conversation. So
if it's a halftime huddle in a sevens game or
one of those hurdles in a time out in a
basketball game, you pluk a microphone in the middle of that.
As far as I'm concerned, the broadcaster does that at
(06:35):
their own risk. And you know that you cannot expect
people in those situations to suddenly start talking like I
don't know, Saints when when, when the heat of the
moment might I guess determine or requires some other sort
I don't know. So in that regard, that's the risk
is on the broadcaster. But in a controlled situation, when
(06:58):
it's a post match interview in front of a backdrop,
everyone knows what the score is, then that's when I
think that, you know, players do have to take care
with what they say.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
By and large players do though, don't they?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, And this is why it did seem a little bit.
I got a bit of a shock to hear Sarah
use that word. I mean, gosh, mate, there's there's no
one who admires her as a player and as a
leader and a standard center in New Zealand rugby, never
mind women's rugby, I mean across the whole game than me.
I think she's absolutely fantastic. I was a little bit
surprised to hear her say it, and as I say,
(07:37):
it didn't offend me. But I think some people might
take offense. And that's that's the consequence.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You talk to basketball scrums and when they get their
timeouts and they are well, they're full of f bombs.
It's almost how they're structured. So the broadcast are doing
that going in there, they're essentially asking for it, but
they kind of know should there be some kind of
warning attached to it? Is there anything the broadcaster can do?
(08:06):
So there in the guts of it all, but go, hey,
the language gets spicy in here, listen at your own
peril or that too much?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah, I've been in situations where you know, we've
gone into huddles or even sometimes you know, we have
those offects Mike's you know, you see the people walking
around with that fluffy microphone that the idea of that
is to pick up stuff and occasionally you'll hear some
fairly juicy language. And there have been situations and that
where the producer or the director or someone might says
(08:34):
to me, like it, you know, just might have to
apologize for the language because some people will have taken
offense at it. And as I say that broad that
that's the risk that the broadcaster takes. So therefore it's
up to the broadcast that offer some sort of apology
when it does happen.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I think you can't.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, you could probably go to the sporting organization
and just a little you know, word could go out
to the coaches. The players just be mindful of the
fact that there will be in these huddles, there will
be a microphone stuck in there, So it'd be nice
if you could mind your p's and q's. But I
guess you know, as to say, in the heat of
the moment, sometimes things slip out, don't they.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
The standard deteriorated has gained momentum as far as sports
broadcasting goes when it comes to getting into the guts
of the game and what players can and can't say.
Because back in the old days, the postmatch interviews were postmatch.
They'd probably had a shower and a meat pie by then,
so they're very much could mind their p's and cues.
(09:30):
But now accelerating toward basically we want to be in
the middle of a scrum, You're going to get a
lot more of that. Is that a good thing or
a bad thing? On balance?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah? Look, well, I think one thing that has changed
is that you know that the players are far more
aware now of the positive side of presenting themselves well,
or presenting themselves in the character. I mean, you look
at someone like Knight ar Cooy, who just gives the
most fantastic postmatch interviews. They are funny, they're witty, you know,
so they'll look from every time, and you know, he
(10:00):
has developed quite a very good persona if you like.
You know, he's a character, a bit of bit of
a cult figure in the game. And so you know,
players are much more aware of the positive side to
doing an interview, whereas back in the day, as we
talk about it, sometimes players didn't want to be interviewed
at all, you know, rather stick needles in their eyes
(10:21):
with it and have some blokestick a microphone in their face,
you know, as they're walking off the field after a
test match. But so I look, I think there's there's
upsides on these downsides, and I think again, I just
think if it's if I go back to that point,
that if it's if it's a slip of the tongue,
if it's something in the heat of the moment, then
I think, you know, this day and age, people will
(10:41):
accept that it's a genuine mistake. But if people go
into a situation like an interview and they you know,
you feel that they're almost deliberately saying it, then I
think you've crossed a line, because they have to know
that there will be people who are offended. Much as
some people will love it, some people will be offended,
(11:02):
and I think they do have a responsibility to the
game to present themselves in a positive light.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talk
SETB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk SED be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Right, let's talk potty mouth TV. Not necessarily from the presenters.
I probably leaned into that a couple of times myself.
Back in the day, the station I worked with was reckless.
We could pretty much do what we wanted. It's changed
a bit now, but the people being interviewed and the
slippage of the F bomb, this has been coming to
(00:33):
focus us. Sarah hidden he dropped one after her team
beat up on Australia and won the sevens over in
Los Angeles. So a man who's been there, right at
the forefront of it is Tony Johnson. He's going to
tell us all about that and the limitations, the requirements,
and I suppose the capacity for us to forgive if
(00:55):
someone says who that nearly came out. Good evening. Tony Johnson, Hello, Darcy,
you've been around.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I was going to say, how the something.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks mate, Let's not do it now, but that's the
discussion point. Look, I don't want to say that you're
a veteran, but you're a veteran. You've been around broadcasting
for a long long time. You would have been there
when if you uttered the word bugger. I mean, we're
not talking quite Peter Jones days now, But that was
a bit of a stretch this day and age, and
Gregor Paul wrote a piece about it. Today it appears
(01:28):
like it's open slaver. It's changed him minstly in the
last well forty years, hasn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh, the boundaries certainly have changed. I mean you used
the word bugger. Well, of course, you know, famously Toyota
did a commercial. But back in the day, I think
the first time that ever came onto the screen, sorry,
under the sound waves would have been nineteen fifty six
when Peter Jones, after he scored that try that beat
the spring Box at Eton Park, famously got on the
(01:55):
microphone that it was, you know, to the crowd and
to the nation and said, well, ladies and gentlemen, I
hope I never play another game like that. I'm absolutely buggered.
And that was caused a bit of a sensation, I mean,
because the country was in such a state of euphoria
about beating the spring box nothing else really mattered. But
of course nowadays, you know, it is a lot different,
(02:15):
just in terms of you know, how often you hear
words that once upon a time would have caused outrage
being used. And I suppose it's just a question as
really is where are the lines drawn now when.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You're broadcasting the right here and right now? And we
talk about broadcasting standards, and we know they can sometimes
come down in like a ton of bricks, But what
instruction are you wonder regards the language you're allowed to use?
Not that you would do that because you're an old
school broadcast that actually understands the beauty thinglish language, but
(02:48):
what sits over you? And what about the players who
are interviewing? What sits over there? Is there anything in place?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, I've never ever been spoken to about it. I
don't think anyone ever needed to speak to us about it.
Was just accepted that if you are broadcasting, if you
are a commentator or a presenter, then you just don't
use any words that will cause offense. I mean, I
was involved in a very infamous or famous moment back
(03:15):
in two thousand and six, and I'm sure people will
remember it. I think it might have been mentioned in
the story in the Herald where I was in Argentina,
Buenos Aires and the captain of the day was Jerry
Collins and the All Blacks had beaten Argentina. They hadn't
played particularly well. I think they went there with about
a three score a three quarter strength team. The idea
(03:37):
being that it was a little thank you for the
vote that Argentina gave a New Zealand support for the
allocation of the twenty eleven Rugby World Cup. Anyway, I
interviewed Jerry at the end of the game and eventually
we managed to track him down and he wandered over
and he acknowledged that they hadn't played very well and
he said, I suppose people at home won't be too
(03:59):
happy about that, but who gives us insert the word?
And that caused quite a commotion, I think because it
was Jerry Collins, because it was a bit of a
one off I suppose seen as a bit of a
slip of the tongue or whatever. Yeah, there was a
commotion about it. I don't know how many people were
actually offended by it, but that was to say, that
was Jerry. That was something that was said in the moment.
(04:22):
I think it's when it starts to become more common usage.
That's when people will start drawing lines about what really
is acceptable, and also just remind people that they are
seen as role models, if you like, and that there
are young people that will be influenced by their conduct.
(04:46):
And also that if you're trying to grow the game,
you're trying to grow it in parts of the world
where maybe that sort of language is simply is not accepted.
And so I think players are broadcast whoever have to
be mindful of that and what you know, Okay, there's
the odd slip of the tongue, but I mean, be
careful perhaps next time not to let that word come
(05:07):
out when the tongue slips.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
When broadcasters and will go to sky, they get people
on the field straight after the game and the hubbub
of the game and the sweat and the stress, and
put a microphone in players' faces. Do you think that
not encourages but gives maybe open slather because of the
heat of the moment. These guys are when I use
the Jones's and they're buggered things slip out? Are they
(05:32):
bringing on themselves the broadcasters?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh yeah, look, I understand what you're saying there, and
you know, it's something that we have to be mindful
of that when you are interviewing people in the heat
of the moment, or under exhaustion, or that there's been
some stress. You know, there is always the risk that
something will slip out. But you know, Richie mccauty, how
long did he captain the All Blacks? For Sean Fitzpatrick.
(05:54):
You never heard them say it. And you know, look,
I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy
here because you and I both know you know what
these words. We hear these words a lot and we're
probably not offended by what I'm saying is is that
if you're looking, you know, the broad reach of the game,
you just got to be careful that you don't you know,
people can take great offense to it. And yeah, sure
(06:15):
there's a risk. I think the biggest risk is when
they start putting microphones into places to overhear conversation. So
if it's a halftime huddle in a sevens game or
one of those hurdles in a time out in a
basketball game, you pluk a microphone in the middle of that.
As far as I'm concerned, the broadcaster does that at
(06:35):
their own risk. And you know that you cannot expect
people in those situations to suddenly start talking like I
don't know, Saints when when, when the heat of the
moment might I guess determine or requires some other sort
I don't know. So in that regard, that's the risk
is on the broadcaster. But in a controlled situation, when
(06:58):
it's a post match interview in front of a backdrop,
everyone knows what the score is, then that's when I
think that, you know, players do have to take care
with what they say.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
By and large players do though, don't they?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, And this is why it did seem a little bit.
I got a bit of a shock to hear Sarah
use that word. I mean, gosh, mate, there's there's no
one who admires her as a player and as a
leader and a standard center in New Zealand rugby, never
mind women's rugby, I mean across the whole game than me.
I think she's absolutely fantastic. I was a little bit
surprised to hear her say it, and as I say,
(07:37):
it didn't offend me. But I think some people might
take offense. And that's that's the consequence.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You talk to basketball scrums and when they get their
timeouts and they are well, they're full of f bombs.
It's almost how they're structured. So the broadcast are doing
that going in there, they're essentially asking for it, but
they kind of know should there be some kind of
warning attached to it? Is there anything the broadcaster can do?
(08:06):
So there in the guts of it all, but go, hey,
the language gets spicy in here, listen at your own
peril or that too much?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah, I've been in situations where you know, we've
gone into huddles or even sometimes you know, we have
those offects Mike's you know, you see the people walking
around with that fluffy microphone that the idea of that
is to pick up stuff and occasionally you'll hear some
fairly juicy language. And there have been situations and that
where the producer or the director or someone might says
(08:34):
to me, like it, you know, just might have to
apologize for the language because some people will have taken
offense at it. And as I say that broad that
that's the risk that the broadcaster takes. So therefore it's
up to the broadcast that offer some sort of apology
when it does happen.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I think you can't.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, you could probably go to the sporting organization
and just a little you know, word could go out
to the coaches. The players just be mindful of the
fact that there will be in these huddles, there will
be a microphone stuck in there, So it'd be nice
if you could mind your p's and q's. But I
guess you know, as to say, in the heat of
the moment, sometimes things slip out, don't they.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
The standard deteriorated has gained momentum as far as sports
broadcasting goes when it comes to getting into the guts
of the game and what players can and can't say.
Because back in the old days, the postmatch interviews were postmatch.
They'd probably had a shower and a meat pie by then,
so they're very much could mind their p's and cues.
(09:30):
But now accelerating toward basically we want to be in
the middle of a scrum, You're going to get a
lot more of that. Is that a good thing or
a bad thing? On balance?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah? Look, well, I think one thing that has changed
is that you know that the players are far more
aware now of the positive side of presenting themselves well,
or presenting themselves in the character. I mean, you look
at someone like Knight ar Cooy, who just gives the
most fantastic postmatch interviews. They are funny, they're witty, you know,
so they'll look from every time, and you know, he
(10:00):
has developed quite a very good persona if you like.
You know, he's a character, a bit of bit of
a cult figure in the game. And so you know,
players are much more aware of the positive side to
doing an interview, whereas back in the day, as we
talk about it, sometimes players didn't want to be interviewed
at all, you know, rather stick needles in their eyes
(10:21):
with it and have some blokestick a microphone in their face,
you know, as they're walking off the field after a
test match. But so I look, I think there's there's
upsides on these downsides, and I think again, I just
think if it's if I go back to that point,
that if it's if it's a slip of the tongue,
if it's something in the heat of the moment, then
I think, you know, this day and age, people will
(10:41):
accept that it's a genuine mistake. But if people go
into a situation like an interview and they you know,
you feel that they're almost deliberately saying it, then I
think you've crossed a line, because they have to know
that there will be people who are offended. Much as
some people will love it, some people will be offended,
(11:02):
and I think they do have a responsibility to the
game to present themselves in a positive light.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talk
SETB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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