January 31, 2025 • 18 mins
The latest edition of 'The All-Star Panel' features Rugby Writer Jamie Wall and Newstalk ZB Sports Journalist Nathan Limm.
On this weekend's agenda:
Can Moana win a title within five years, who will replace Tohu Harris as Warriors Captain and Dame Sophie Pascoe calls time on her career.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the All Sport Breakfast podcast with Darcy
Waltergrave from News Talk sed B All Sports Breakfast, All
Star Panel, and.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The All Star panel consists of me, Sorry I got
that wrong again, and the All Star panel consists of
Nathan Limb and Jamie Wall.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Morning boys.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh yeah, a bullion top of the morning bouncing there
you go like a pack of seals in here. Let's
get things under way with you and mister rugby Jamie Wall.
I spoke with Debbie Sorenson, the CEO of Pussificat yesterday
on air. Really interesting chat. Sounds like a great great
(00:56):
lady and very much onto it, but talking that they
believe they can win the camp within five years. This
is this is telling their dream. Surely that's not gonna happen,
is it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah? Funny, so that does ex.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I had word with her as well the other day
and we did talk about the goals were for the future.
And I actually went out and what their preseason match
yesterday against the Highlanders at their new home at North
harborst Stadium, and yeah, I definitely got the got the
feeling that yeah, it's this a long term goal. I
had a chat with Sir Michael Jones as well, and
(01:34):
what he said was quite revealing where he said that
they definitely feel like the period of goodwill has worn
off with this team and they really need to start delivering.
And so therefore, to set themselves a lofty goal like
winning the Camp within five years, it kind of has
to happen because if they don't, then they're just not
(01:57):
going to move forward as an organization, not just on
the field, but offer is offered as well, and I
think we spend just as much I'm talking about owners
off field issues then we do the ones on. So
really they have to kind of aim high and it
has to be this way in order for this team
(02:17):
to progress. And really though, like it's not entirely out
of the question, I mean, who would have picked that
they would have been able to sign an All Black
captain last year? You know, if they can keep sort
of doing stuff like that, like they were clearly doing
something all right if Ardie Savil wanted to pack up
and move to them this year, So if they can
(02:38):
keep that sort of thing going, use his leverage to
attract more players, Like, it's not entirely out of the question.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Limit they can only take three all blacks, and you
look at someone like the Highlanders, who have had access
to whatever rugby players they've wanted. In fact, they front
loaded their team with all blacks ones they once. And
let's look at the Hurricanes. They've got access to all
these terrific players. They've got a sound home base. They
know where they are, they know what they stand for,
(03:06):
they know how they train. And I can't get it
done either.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Look.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I applaud and appreciate targeting, absolutely I do. You've got
to look to the stars, okay, But realistically when you
take that into account, I don't know, Nathan, you with
me on mine as being a miserable old man.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Usually I like to just play Devil's advocate and go, yeah,
they can win it. But if they've got a limit
of three all blacks, they haven't had a secure home base.
They've kind of been left out in the dark.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm not saying it to fail, but it's close, right.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, they haven't been given the probably necessary support for
a franchise that is going to be taken seriously. I
guess maybe by the governing body and by Super Rugby
as a whole MANA pacificer, I like love the franchise
just as a franchise, and I think they do have
resonance and they really do connect to their fans. I
was overseas a few months ago and I saw someone
(03:58):
and you're walking around wearing a Mona Pacificer hat, so
that their brand actually is you know, relevant and does
have a supportive base. But it's hard to, I guess,
build a team around a franchise that has those sort
of limits on it in terms of the three All
Blacks and not having that stable base. Obviously there was
you know, a few issues with with with sharing the
ground with the Warriors that mate smart and that sort
(04:20):
of thing, nor North Harbor.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Jamie.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Is this is fair, isn't I'm not bunching down. I'm
just saying this is they really are hamstrung right from
the get go. And look, maybe they do want it
and they turn around and flip me the burden and
go there you go, mate. It'll be a hard, hard ass,
but got to be aspirational.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, well, yes, yes, I mean That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Like, have they set themselves at target? Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Do I think it's a good thing, yes? Can they
actually do it? Well, I'm not sure I will say
one thing though, If you told me in twenty eleven
that within five years both the Highlanders and Hurricanes would
win a Super Rugby title, I would not have believed
you at all, given the state that those two.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Places were in.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I think the Hollanders had lost eleven games like this,
so they had a worse They were in a worse
spot than what my wana is now.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And the Hurricanes had just hired a new.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Coach who got rid of all their all blacks for them,
So you know, it's it's you got to remember it
as a domestic competition.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's not like Test rugby, like things can change very quickly.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
And also I'll point out this isn't us like punching down.
We're not just sitting at the side and going no, no, no,
it'll never happen. But this is kind of coming from
a place of they're actually at a disadvantage and they
kind of need more support, and if we want this
team to get more support maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Because of that, right, Yeah, we're fighting with the underdogs.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
I no, I totally agree, but you can't, I guess,
expect a team to be up there doing the same
things as the Blues and the Crusaders. And the Hurricanes,
et cetera. If they aren't actually operating from a level
playing field.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
We'll let that one go because I don't believe Jamie
ware oh Mactually, maybe it's entirely, entirely possible that I
win the competition and all by himself. Is that good?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Let's move away.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
From the pitch to the pool, Jamie. Dame Sophie Pasco
announced her retirement. What a storied career.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well, I don't know what to say about this that
hasn't already been said, because so many accolades, so much
praise has been heaped on Dame Sophie Pasco over the
last few days, it's really hard to add to.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It without just repeating, repeating it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And you know, I think it was the boss of
Swimming New Zealand just described her as a true sporting.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Great and the fact that she is.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
New Zealand's most high I would say she's Neale's most
high profile swimmer, and that the fact that she's a
paralympian doesn't really come into the discussion because in terms
of her fame, you know, the lake that she's managed
to transcend being a para athlete and then become the
(07:08):
kind of face of that sport able bodied or not
anyway like that says to me just how.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Impressive and successful she's been.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
And I hope she enjoys her her retirement because it's
probably the most well earned.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
In New Zealand sporting history.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Athlete, first Olympian, next a Paralympian down the quill. I
think that the word use transcended is perfect, Jamie. What
this woman has achieved has been beyond the poor La Nathan.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I mean, the part of this that kind of astounds
to me the most is the fact she's only thirty two.
I feel like she's been around my entire life, that
she's just been at the pinnacle of the sport and dominating.
She obviously debuted at the Paralympics at the age of
fifteen in two thousand and eight, which is utterly outrageous.
But the number of young kids as well, and young
(08:01):
kiwi's who maybe are growing up with a disability who
she would have inspired. I think sometimes we forget how
important that representation is and for young people who might
feel that they're different from others to be able to
look at the news and on tally and be able
to see people that are like them have that kind
of success. You know, she's she's undoubtedly one of the
(08:22):
greatest athletes New Zealand's ever produced. You know, our most
decorated Paralympic eleven time Paralympic champion, seven silvers of bronze,
five goals at the Commonwealth Games. Her records just about unmatched.
And you're right, there's so much that's already been said
about her, but I just, yeah, I'm at a loss
to sort of describe. I guess the impact that she
(08:44):
would have had for the disabled community, I suppose, and
just impressing New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, as they say, if you want to be you've
got to see it, and she's definitely stood out and
said you can do this. Get amongst go for it.
Give them the taste of Kiwi. Fantastic career eight forty two.
We'll start pan on your Small Breakfast coming up next.
Sir John Kerwin has fled the studio. We'll talk about
that next here on News Talk z B. It's caught
(09:20):
the nine All Star panel on the All Sport Breakfast
at Jamie Wall. Sir John Kerwan has exited stage left.
What do you think about that? And this is from
Sky TV not just like full stop a good move,
a bad move? And what do we actually want from
our New Zealand rugby TV media?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Uh well, I mean it's kind of two questions.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I guess the way I feel about to John Coeran
leaving is that it's from what I can understand or
what I read anyway, it sounds like it's amicable and
that he you know, they I'm not one hundred percent
sure what happened there, but there's clearly no hard feelings
over it, So I don't know how to. I mean,
one thing I don't want to get into now is
(10:10):
the state of the employment state of our industry right now,
because we'll be here all day.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
But what I what I will say in the second
party question is probably a more interesting thing because it's
that's that's that's a question that's been going on for
quite a while now.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And what we want out of our rugby coverage is
something that I don't think is an easy answer, because
we have a very shifting demographic of like who's actually
or who who's who broadcasts actually want to be watching
and engaging with the game, and how you actually do
that balancing act with what we'd say is our traditional
(10:52):
audience of you know, older, older people and people who
have an idea in the head of what rugby coverage
is and what they like and what they want to
listen to, which is why we've had the same guys
commentating rugby for as long as we've had I mean,
Grant has but brought up as what was it three
hundred and fiftieth Test match last year, and you know
(11:13):
that's not like a critique or anything, that's just what
people want to listen to. They want to have the
kind of the same thing going on. But at the
same time, Sky and the like outlets like us No,
we kind of need to change because we need to
be bringing in more viewers and people who engage in
(11:35):
the game to replace the ones that are dropping off.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Basically, so, I don't know, I don't really know how
to answer that question.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Split though, make a split, Jamie. I think commentary is
very different from a critical TV analysis, is it not?
Because John's not a commentator. They analysis of the game
and the common I suppose the common criticism around that
is that a lot of people feel that Sky are
unwilling to let their analysts can't and how they really
(12:07):
think because they've got to keep it pretty with New
Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, I don't. I don't think you can.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You can accuse John Kerwin of holding back because he's
he certainly created a lot of headlines over the years.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I didn't you know he was he was a pundit.
I didn't agree with everything you said. Sometimes I did,
sometimes I didn't, But I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I don't think that's fair to say that sky Muzzle
their their their pundits. Really, they are still a promotional
vehicle like they you know, they're not in the same
category as like what we do. But at the same time,
I don't think it's fair to say that they're under
some sort of edict from New Zealand Rugby because that's
just kind of not true, and it's more just the
(12:50):
case of I think it.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
What it really is is that you're dealing with the guys.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Who used to be all blacks and they have it
in the head of how an all black talks about
their team and their former teammates and you kind of
can't blame them for that, And I think really what
needs to happen is they kind of need to strike
it ance between guys like that who have these really
insightful opinions because they've been there and done that on
the field, and perhaps people who haven't who can offer
kind of something else. And it's about finding that balance
(13:17):
across the narrative, like the entire discussion we've got, because
I really feel right now that it is a bit
of a wilderness for New Zealand rugby fans, like there's
no really hard opinion going out there that's kind of
pointing people in the in the direction that they should be.
(13:38):
There's a lot of negativity, I can tell you that much.
There's a lot of headlines about what a terrible job
in New Zealand rugby's doing and how rugby's dying. I
don't agree with that at all. I think that that's
a bad narrative to be pushing because the orbal accel
out all the test matches. Super Rugby Finals sold out
(13:59):
last year, and you know, when you're talking about a
competition like Super Rugby that's drawing an average crew of
like fifteen thousand, which for any other sport in this
country would be seen as a colossal triumph.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
For rugby, that being a bad thing. That shows you
just where it is in the public's perception of things.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So I think you touch on before.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
The shift and that narrative needs to happen more than
anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, but the fact that differentiine you're right about that,
not a mussling situation, but former All Blacks who are
not keen to criticize what they see as opposed to
people from the outside looking in.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Nathan, I think John Cowan's a massive loss really believing Sky.
And I feel that because I really I trust what
he says because he's always blunt and he's always genuine,
and he's not afraid to just say exactly what he thinks.
People who are my generation are not tuning into rugby.
We're not tuning into the NPC, not really tuning into
(14:54):
super rugby. Will watch the All Blacks. People who are
my age are watching the UFC, They're watching the NBA,
they're watching the NRL. And the way that those sports
are packaged is you have a mixture of former players
like John Kerwin and Jeff Wilson, et cetera, et cetera,
but you're also throw in a bunch of, you know,
punters who are outside removed, not necessarily former players, but
(15:15):
they say things and they say things really bluntly because
they're not actually worried about protecting you know, their friends
and that sort of past relationship they have with a
jersey or whatever. And that creates headlines. You get people
saying things that need to be said when other times
might be said a little bit more softly. What does
that create? It creates clips you circulate on social media,
so that people it's showing up on their phones all
(15:36):
the times. It creates those headlines, People debate about it,
people argue about it, and that drives up the amount
of engagement you have with a sport. I think the
problem with rugby in New Zealand and the way it's
marketed is it is too soft. We need more sort
of controversy is a good word, I guess around the
sport and the way it's packaged and marketed to just
(15:56):
engage people more online. And that's how you're going to
get people more engaged, more TV viewers up, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, not as in the house mentioned UFC. Nice transfer
of conversation there, because it is rather just in your
back in the octagony end tomorrow morning.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited for this I think,
you know, I feel like he's obviously had a little
bit of a rough patch with his last couple of games.
But look, I think he is one of New Zealand's
greatest sporting assets. I think we should be hanging a
New Zealand flag behind everything that he does because he
is so massive on a world scale, and I don't
(16:35):
think actually a lot of New Zealanders appreciate just how
big he is in terms of the states and the
number of views and the number of people who are
attracted to the things that he says. I know he
doesn't necessarily line up with the sort of New Zealand
archetype of humble you know, next game mentality, that sort
of thing, but he he gets listeners like not a
(16:58):
lot of other New Zealand athletes, and I think the
New Zealand should really be taking him seriously. I think
he's underutilized really by New Zealand as a marketing tool.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
He granted, but he's not the biggest fan of New Zealand.
Let's face it. Some of his comments, Jamie Wall, where
does he sit with you? You got thirty seconds?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Well, I agree with what Nathan said, but I think
that the issue though, is that he's not as relevant
in the sport that he once was and he's still
number two.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So he's still number two in the rankings.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oddly, Yeah, well why isn't he fighting in a numbered event?
That that's what that's my question. And then secondly, I
think that UFC.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
As a whole is really taking his back seat to
boxing at the moment, Like boxing has definitely taken over
his number one combat sport in the world, given what
the Saudis have managed to pump the amount of money
that they've managed to pump into it. So I think
there's a broader discussion that he had about the UFC
in general and sort of where it's hitting and the
fact that I will say one.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Thing about Israel though he has.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
We had this conversation about relevance a couple of years
ago about Joseph Parker, who's now managed to get himself
right back into title contention. So I think all he
needs is it's a few good ones and you'll be
right back up there as an a list sporting headline
in New Zealand, and it's.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Got to start tomorrow morning from eight o'clock. Jamie Wall
love your work mate. Thanks for joining us Nathan Limb Ditto,
thanks for your time. Six Minutes Away from nine Jason
buying up next here on Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
For more from the All Sport Breakfast with Darcy Watergrave,
listen live to News Talk set B on Saturday mornings,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the All Sport Breakfast podcast with Darcy
Waltergrave from News Talk sed B All Sports Breakfast, All
Star Panel, and.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The All Star panel consists of me, Sorry I got
that wrong again, and the All Star panel consists of
Nathan Limb and Jamie Wall.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Morning boys.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh yeah, a bullion top of the morning bouncing there
you go like a pack of seals in here. Let's
get things under way with you and mister rugby Jamie Wall.
I spoke with Debbie Sorenson, the CEO of Pussificat yesterday
on air. Really interesting chat. Sounds like a great great
(00:56):
lady and very much onto it, but talking that they
believe they can win the camp within five years. This
is this is telling their dream. Surely that's not gonna happen,
is it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah? Funny, so that does ex.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I had word with her as well the other day
and we did talk about the goals were for the future.
And I actually went out and what their preseason match
yesterday against the Highlanders at their new home at North
harborst Stadium, and yeah, I definitely got the got the
feeling that yeah, it's this a long term goal. I
had a chat with Sir Michael Jones as well, and
(01:34):
what he said was quite revealing where he said that
they definitely feel like the period of goodwill has worn
off with this team and they really need to start delivering.
And so therefore, to set themselves a lofty goal like
winning the Camp within five years, it kind of has
to happen because if they don't, then they're just not
(01:57):
going to move forward as an organization, not just on
the field, but offer is offered as well, and I
think we spend just as much I'm talking about owners
off field issues then we do the ones on. So
really they have to kind of aim high and it
has to be this way in order for this team
(02:17):
to progress. And really though, like it's not entirely out
of the question, I mean, who would have picked that
they would have been able to sign an All Black
captain last year? You know, if they can keep sort
of doing stuff like that, like they were clearly doing
something all right if Ardie Savil wanted to pack up
and move to them this year, So if they can
(02:38):
keep that sort of thing going, use his leverage to
attract more players, Like, it's not entirely out of the question.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Limit they can only take three all blacks, and you
look at someone like the Highlanders, who have had access
to whatever rugby players they've wanted. In fact, they front
loaded their team with all blacks ones they once. And
let's look at the Hurricanes. They've got access to all
these terrific players. They've got a sound home base. They
know where they are, they know what they stand for,
(03:06):
they know how they train. And I can't get it
done either.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Look.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I applaud and appreciate targeting, absolutely I do. You've got
to look to the stars, okay, But realistically when you
take that into account, I don't know, Nathan, you with
me on mine as being a miserable old man.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Usually I like to just play Devil's advocate and go, yeah,
they can win it. But if they've got a limit
of three all blacks, they haven't had a secure home base.
They've kind of been left out in the dark.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm not saying it to fail, but it's close, right.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, they haven't been given the probably necessary support for
a franchise that is going to be taken seriously. I
guess maybe by the governing body and by Super Rugby
as a whole MANA pacificer, I like love the franchise
just as a franchise, and I think they do have
resonance and they really do connect to their fans. I
was overseas a few months ago and I saw someone
(03:58):
and you're walking around wearing a Mona Pacificer hat, so
that their brand actually is you know, relevant and does
have a supportive base. But it's hard to, I guess,
build a team around a franchise that has those sort
of limits on it in terms of the three All
Blacks and not having that stable base. Obviously there was
you know, a few issues with with with sharing the
ground with the Warriors that mate smart and that sort
(04:20):
of thing, nor North Harbor.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Jamie.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Is this is fair, isn't I'm not bunching down. I'm
just saying this is they really are hamstrung right from
the get go. And look, maybe they do want it
and they turn around and flip me the burden and
go there you go, mate. It'll be a hard, hard ass,
but got to be aspirational.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, well, yes, yes, I mean That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Like, have they set themselves at target? Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Do I think it's a good thing, yes? Can they
actually do it? Well, I'm not sure I will say
one thing though, If you told me in twenty eleven
that within five years both the Highlanders and Hurricanes would
win a Super Rugby title, I would not have believed
you at all, given the state that those two.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Places were in.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I think the Hollanders had lost eleven games like this,
so they had a worse They were in a worse
spot than what my wana is now.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And the Hurricanes had just hired a new.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Coach who got rid of all their all blacks for them,
So you know, it's it's you got to remember it
as a domestic competition.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's not like Test rugby, like things can change very quickly.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
And also I'll point out this isn't us like punching down.
We're not just sitting at the side and going no, no, no,
it'll never happen. But this is kind of coming from
a place of they're actually at a disadvantage and they
kind of need more support, and if we want this
team to get more support maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Because of that, right, Yeah, we're fighting with the underdogs.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
I no, I totally agree, but you can't, I guess,
expect a team to be up there doing the same
things as the Blues and the Crusaders. And the Hurricanes,
et cetera. If they aren't actually operating from a level
playing field.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
We'll let that one go because I don't believe Jamie
ware oh Mactually, maybe it's entirely, entirely possible that I
win the competition and all by himself. Is that good?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Let's move away.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
From the pitch to the pool, Jamie. Dame Sophie Pasco
announced her retirement. What a storied career.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well, I don't know what to say about this that
hasn't already been said, because so many accolades, so much
praise has been heaped on Dame Sophie Pasco over the
last few days, it's really hard to add to.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It without just repeating, repeating it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And you know, I think it was the boss of
Swimming New Zealand just described her as a true sporting.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Great and the fact that she is.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
New Zealand's most high I would say she's Neale's most
high profile swimmer, and that the fact that she's a
paralympian doesn't really come into the discussion because in terms
of her fame, you know, the lake that she's managed
to transcend being a para athlete and then become the
(07:08):
kind of face of that sport able bodied or not
anyway like that says to me just how.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Impressive and successful she's been.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
And I hope she enjoys her her retirement because it's
probably the most well earned.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
In New Zealand sporting history.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Athlete, first Olympian, next a Paralympian down the quill. I
think that the word use transcended is perfect, Jamie. What
this woman has achieved has been beyond the poor La Nathan.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I mean, the part of this that kind of astounds
to me the most is the fact she's only thirty two.
I feel like she's been around my entire life, that
she's just been at the pinnacle of the sport and dominating.
She obviously debuted at the Paralympics at the age of
fifteen in two thousand and eight, which is utterly outrageous.
But the number of young kids as well, and young
(08:01):
kiwi's who maybe are growing up with a disability who
she would have inspired. I think sometimes we forget how
important that representation is and for young people who might
feel that they're different from others to be able to
look at the news and on tally and be able
to see people that are like them have that kind
of success. You know, she's she's undoubtedly one of the
(08:22):
greatest athletes New Zealand's ever produced. You know, our most
decorated Paralympic eleven time Paralympic champion, seven silvers of bronze,
five goals at the Commonwealth Games. Her records just about unmatched.
And you're right, there's so much that's already been said
about her, but I just, yeah, I'm at a loss
to sort of describe. I guess the impact that she
(08:44):
would have had for the disabled community, I suppose, and
just impressing New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, as they say, if you want to be you've
got to see it, and she's definitely stood out and
said you can do this. Get amongst go for it.
Give them the taste of Kiwi. Fantastic career eight forty two.
We'll start pan on your Small Breakfast coming up next.
Sir John Kerwin has fled the studio. We'll talk about
that next here on News Talk z B. It's caught
(09:20):
the nine All Star panel on the All Sport Breakfast
at Jamie Wall. Sir John Kerwan has exited stage left.
What do you think about that? And this is from
Sky TV not just like full stop a good move,
a bad move? And what do we actually want from
our New Zealand rugby TV media?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Uh well, I mean it's kind of two questions.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I guess the way I feel about to John Coeran
leaving is that it's from what I can understand or
what I read anyway, it sounds like it's amicable and
that he you know, they I'm not one hundred percent
sure what happened there, but there's clearly no hard feelings
over it, So I don't know how to. I mean,
one thing I don't want to get into now is
(10:10):
the state of the employment state of our industry right now,
because we'll be here all day.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
But what I what I will say in the second
party question is probably a more interesting thing because it's
that's that's that's a question that's been going on for
quite a while now.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And what we want out of our rugby coverage is
something that I don't think is an easy answer, because
we have a very shifting demographic of like who's actually
or who who's who broadcasts actually want to be watching
and engaging with the game, and how you actually do
that balancing act with what we'd say is our traditional
(10:52):
audience of you know, older, older people and people who
have an idea in the head of what rugby coverage
is and what they like and what they want to
listen to, which is why we've had the same guys
commentating rugby for as long as we've had I mean,
Grant has but brought up as what was it three
hundred and fiftieth Test match last year, and you know
(11:13):
that's not like a critique or anything, that's just what
people want to listen to. They want to have the
kind of the same thing going on. But at the
same time, Sky and the like outlets like us No,
we kind of need to change because we need to
be bringing in more viewers and people who engage in
(11:35):
the game to replace the ones that are dropping off.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Basically, so, I don't know, I don't really know how
to answer that question.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Split though, make a split, Jamie. I think commentary is
very different from a critical TV analysis, is it not?
Because John's not a commentator. They analysis of the game
and the common I suppose the common criticism around that
is that a lot of people feel that Sky are
unwilling to let their analysts can't and how they really
(12:07):
think because they've got to keep it pretty with New
Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, I don't. I don't think you can.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You can accuse John Kerwin of holding back because he's
he certainly created a lot of headlines over the years.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I didn't you know he was he was a pundit.
I didn't agree with everything you said. Sometimes I did,
sometimes I didn't, But I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I don't think that's fair to say that sky Muzzle
their their their pundits. Really, they are still a promotional
vehicle like they you know, they're not in the same
category as like what we do. But at the same time,
I don't think it's fair to say that they're under
some sort of edict from New Zealand Rugby because that's
just kind of not true, and it's more just the
(12:50):
case of I think it.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
What it really is is that you're dealing with the guys.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Who used to be all blacks and they have it
in the head of how an all black talks about
their team and their former teammates and you kind of
can't blame them for that, And I think really what
needs to happen is they kind of need to strike
it ance between guys like that who have these really
insightful opinions because they've been there and done that on
the field, and perhaps people who haven't who can offer
kind of something else. And it's about finding that balance
(13:17):
across the narrative, like the entire discussion we've got, because
I really feel right now that it is a bit
of a wilderness for New Zealand rugby fans, like there's
no really hard opinion going out there that's kind of
pointing people in the in the direction that they should be.
(13:38):
There's a lot of negativity, I can tell you that much.
There's a lot of headlines about what a terrible job
in New Zealand rugby's doing and how rugby's dying. I
don't agree with that at all. I think that that's
a bad narrative to be pushing because the orbal accel
out all the test matches. Super Rugby Finals sold out
(13:59):
last year, and you know, when you're talking about a
competition like Super Rugby that's drawing an average crew of
like fifteen thousand, which for any other sport in this
country would be seen as a colossal triumph.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
For rugby, that being a bad thing. That shows you
just where it is in the public's perception of things.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So I think you touch on before.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
The shift and that narrative needs to happen more than
anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, but the fact that differentiine you're right about that,
not a mussling situation, but former All Blacks who are
not keen to criticize what they see as opposed to
people from the outside looking in.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Nathan, I think John Cowan's a massive loss really believing Sky.
And I feel that because I really I trust what
he says because he's always blunt and he's always genuine,
and he's not afraid to just say exactly what he thinks.
People who are my generation are not tuning into rugby.
We're not tuning into the NPC, not really tuning into
(14:54):
super rugby. Will watch the All Blacks. People who are
my age are watching the UFC, They're watching the NBA,
they're watching the NRL. And the way that those sports
are packaged is you have a mixture of former players
like John Kerwin and Jeff Wilson, et cetera, et cetera,
but you're also throw in a bunch of, you know,
punters who are outside removed, not necessarily former players, but
(15:15):
they say things and they say things really bluntly because
they're not actually worried about protecting you know, their friends
and that sort of past relationship they have with a
jersey or whatever. And that creates headlines. You get people
saying things that need to be said when other times
might be said a little bit more softly. What does
that create? It creates clips you circulate on social media,
so that people it's showing up on their phones all
(15:36):
the times. It creates those headlines, People debate about it,
people argue about it, and that drives up the amount
of engagement you have with a sport. I think the
problem with rugby in New Zealand and the way it's
marketed is it is too soft. We need more sort
of controversy is a good word, I guess around the
sport and the way it's packaged and marketed to just
(15:56):
engage people more online. And that's how you're going to
get people more engaged, more TV viewers up, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, not as in the house mentioned UFC. Nice transfer
of conversation there, because it is rather just in your
back in the octagony end tomorrow morning.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited for this I think,
you know, I feel like he's obviously had a little
bit of a rough patch with his last couple of games.
But look, I think he is one of New Zealand's
greatest sporting assets. I think we should be hanging a
New Zealand flag behind everything that he does because he
is so massive on a world scale, and I don't
(16:35):
think actually a lot of New Zealanders appreciate just how
big he is in terms of the states and the
number of views and the number of people who are
attracted to the things that he says. I know he
doesn't necessarily line up with the sort of New Zealand
archetype of humble you know, next game mentality, that sort
of thing, but he he gets listeners like not a
(16:58):
lot of other New Zealand athletes, and I think the
New Zealand should really be taking him seriously. I think
he's underutilized really by New Zealand as a marketing tool.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
He granted, but he's not the biggest fan of New Zealand.
Let's face it. Some of his comments, Jamie Wall, where
does he sit with you? You got thirty seconds?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Well, I agree with what Nathan said, but I think
that the issue though, is that he's not as relevant
in the sport that he once was and he's still
number two.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So he's still number two in the rankings.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oddly, Yeah, well why isn't he fighting in a numbered event?
That that's what that's my question. And then secondly, I
think that UFC.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
As a whole is really taking his back seat to
boxing at the moment, Like boxing has definitely taken over
his number one combat sport in the world, given what
the Saudis have managed to pump the amount of money
that they've managed to pump into it. So I think
there's a broader discussion that he had about the UFC
in general and sort of where it's hitting and the
fact that I will say one.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Thing about Israel though he has.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
We had this conversation about relevance a couple of years
ago about Joseph Parker, who's now managed to get himself
right back into title contention. So I think all he
needs is it's a few good ones and you'll be
right back up there as an a list sporting headline
in New Zealand, and it's.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Got to start tomorrow morning from eight o'clock. Jamie Wall
love your work mate. Thanks for joining us Nathan Limb Ditto,
thanks for your time. Six Minutes Away from nine Jason
buying up next here on Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
For more from the All Sport Breakfast with Darcy Watergrave,
listen live to News Talk set B on Saturday mornings,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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