Tracy Sheen isn’t your typical artificial intelligence guru. “I am looking forward to stirring the AI pot with you, Peter,” Sheen told me at the start of an entertaining discussion on this week’s episode of The Business of Tech. 

The award-winning Australian business coach and technology strategist has always been passionate about making technology accessible.

Her latest book AI & U: Reimagine Business is a direct response to the overwhelming hype and complexity surrounding AI, aiming to break down the technology into simple, actionable strategies for everyday business owners.

Sheen, who spent her childhood tinkering with electronics in her parents’ workshop and went on to help launch SMS technology and the iPhone and SMS in Australia brings a grounded perspective to the AI conversation, focusing on the needs of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) rather than tech giants or C-suite executives. Listen to the full interview on Episode 103 of The Business of Tech.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Business of Tech powered by two Degrees Business,
the podcast where we dive deep into the trends and
technologies shaping the future of business. I'm your host Peter Griffin.
Today we're tackling one of the hottest and, let's face it,
most overwhelming topic in business right now, Artificial intelligence. I've
done several shows over the last year on AI, mainly

(00:25):
from technologists and scientists and startup founders who are using AI.
This one's going to be a little bit different. While
AI is starting to change how entire industries operate, many
small and medium sized business owners here in New Zealand
are left wondering does this all hype or can AI

(00:49):
actually make a difference for me? How do I cut
through the noise and put these tools to work in
my business without losing what makes it unique. To help
us answer those questions, I'm joined this week by Tracy Sheen,
the Brisbane based AI consultant and business coach. Tracy's an
award winning author, speaker, and AI strategist with over three

(01:12):
decades of experience in telecommunications, marketing and technology. She's worked
with major brands like Telstra, Optus and Harvey Norman She's
a trusted voice when it comes to making technology accessible
for everyone. Her last book, The End of Technophobia, one
Australia's Business Book of the Year in twenty twenty one.

(01:33):
Now Tracy's back with a new book, AI and You
Reimagine Business, which I love because it delivers a practical,
jargon free roadmap for small and medium sized businesses looking
to embrace AI. Is packed with real world case studies
and hands on exercises showing you how to streamline tasks,

(01:55):
boost productivity, and enhance your relationships with clients and or
without overloading you with the tech. I think it's exactly
what our businesses need as they move from experimentation with
AI to really incorporating it into their operations. Tracy's also
a lot of fun, so I think you'll really enjoy this.

(02:15):
Here's Tracy Sheen on AI and You. Tracy Sheen, Welcome
to the business of tech. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I am looking forward to stirring the AI plot with you, Peter.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
And you have been with your new book AI and
You Reimagining Business. And you know there's just been a
deluge of AI related books. I've just read one called
AI Empire, which is all about the open Ai story
and all the sort of nefarious stuff that went on
in the background there as this company tried to build

(03:01):
the biggest AI monolith in the world and it's succeeding
and doing that. But what I love about your book,
Tracy is it's actually aimed at the people who need
to be adopting AI. And we're a country of small
businesses in New Zealand like Australia, and mid sized businesses,
and every company is now trying to grapple with this.

(03:23):
All these tools from the likes to open Ai, Microsoft Aws,
Canva and others. Everyone has embraced AI and the rest
of us are going, Okay, well that's great, but is
this all hype or how do I actually use these
tools in a useful way? And what I love about
the book is that it gives you some really practical

(03:45):
tips on how to do that and a framework to
approach it as well. So we're going to dive into that,
but before we do, just a bit about your background.
Trac you're obviously a successful author. You had a business
Book of the Year in twenty twenty one, congratulations and
that so you're back with with another book. But tell
us about your journey in business and business coaching and

(04:06):
the like.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, well, my journey actually is one of those ones
that you know only makes sense when you look at
the rearview mirror. So when I was six, I was
playing with electronic scales on the parent on my floor
of my parents' workshops, so one of the first in
Australia to import electronic scales. So I was pulling them
apart and playing around with the boards and soldering things

(04:28):
back together, trying to figure out why that worked and
that didn't work. And you can't judge me, Peter. It
was the seventies and six year olds were allowed to
play with soldering irons, so you know, fair play. I
got into selling mobile phones straight out of high school,
so that was nineteen ninety. We had very little coverage
in regional Australia, much like you guys went through across

(04:50):
the ditch and all the mobile phones they were the
size of house bricks. Although were really good for because
you couldn't reach your connection to make a call if
you needed to. That you could smack somebody over the
head and run like hell if you needed to. So
that was my first kind of introduction into the world
of technology, and you know, even though I was only
like eighteen, I just had that there was some kind

(05:12):
of knowing that this is the start of something that's
about to change everything. So I knew I was where
I was meant to be, and then my career just
kind of I bounced around a lot from there, launched
the iPhone into Australia as part of a retail channel,
helped launch as technology into Australia, you know, and was

(05:35):
kind of there at the forefront of all these big
kind of tech advancements, but always from the point of
view of being there for the small business community. So
I was always writing the manuals for how do the
retailers put these new tech devices into the hands of
small business owners and what is that going to mean
for them? So I've always had this real kind of

(05:57):
I guess passion for connecting the technologlogy with the human
or particularly small business owners. And then left corporate in
two thousand and eight, started my first business with my
now husband, bought and sold a few and this kind
of tech stuff always just kept bubbling up, did a podcast,

(06:19):
did a few other things, and I really started to
realize that my passion is really about, you know, continuing
to help small business owners in particular connect with these
tools in a way that allows them to get back
to doing what they actually love and why they got
into business, and maybe spend some time with friends and
family instead of always being on as a business owner.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, this is the dream scenario you outline in AI,
and you just a quote from it. You say, picture this.
Your business is running like clockwork. AI handles the admin
trends and to do's that usually bog you down, leaving
you free to focus on the parts of your business
that you actually like. Your customers feel like VIPs because

(07:05):
you give them exactly what they need when they need it.
Your team is happier because the grunt work is done
for them, and you have time to plan for the
future or take a well earned break. And it's the
dream scenario for all of us and remains elusive for
a lot of us as well. We have a productivity
problem in New Zealand, less so in Australia, but still most,

(07:29):
you know, Western countries are suffering with labor productivity. In
New Zealand we work probably the hardest in the OECD
in terms of the hours that we put in for
the output. So we've been told by the government we
need to pick up our productivity. They're looking at advanced
technologies like AI to do that, and that is what

(07:50):
we want, you know, all of the grunt work taken out,
so at least we can then focus on the more
creative stuff and the stuff that matters and relationships. You
talk a lot in the book about how key relationships are.
I guess you know, there's been a lot of hype
around AI as being the promise technology. But as you said,

(08:11):
you've been through these waves of technology, email, the mobile revolution, cloud,
and now AI is just the latest one. How do
we actually get those gains because it seems like through
all of those revolutions were working harder than ever. Sure,
they automated some things and made connectivity easier, but we're
just more overwhelmed than ever before. What's going on?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, look, it's I think we've got sold of Furfy
to be honest. You know, it was like, here, take
another device and then it'll make your life easier. But
you've got to buy in for this subscription and that
subscription on by the way, Oh you need to do that,
Well that wasn't included. Now you need to upgrade. So
I feel like we're just being put onto this treadmill

(08:57):
of increased consumerism a very little return. I do believe
that AI and kind of what will build off the
back of it, does have the capabilities to finally build
in some of these streamlines and productivity gains and promises

(09:19):
that we've been sold forever in a day, I think,
you know, like anything, though, it's still going to take
a bit of bit of work and a bit of
efforts to see that through. But yeah, for once I
can actually say, all right, I can see what it
is that you're talking about, and I can see how
it's going to be applicable for the average small business owner,

(09:42):
not a major, you know, C suite firm.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Look, it doesn't have to be a big bang thing
and be overwhelming to approach. You know, you talk in
there about what is your low hanging fruit? So every
business will have one thing that drives them bo akers.
You write in there, and what is the thing that's
going to make the biggest difference. What is the really
clunky process that you and your customers really hate? And

(10:10):
you know, I'm sort of seeing that in my own
business as a content creator. There are two or three
bottlenecks in the process that consistently frustrate me and take
a lot of time. But you know, AI is starting
to change that, so I can relate to that. So
what's your advice to businesses? How do you sort of

(10:31):
systematize this process of looking at your business, looking at
what AI tools are out there, and then trying to
reimagine your business with the use of those tools.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Hey, do you just did it? You know, it's really interesting.
Every time I raise this point with someone, they the
first thing they kind of go is, oh, yeah, yeah,
I've got two or three things. I didn't ask for
two or three things. That's the pick one. And that's
what we always do as business owners. We'll go, oh, yeah,
well there's this. Oh but if I could do this
as well and this as well, and that's what ends

(11:01):
up happening. We come up with two or three or
five or ten and not one, and so then we go, oh,
we can work on two or three, and we start to,
but then we get overwhelmed because we've got two or
three things to do, and so then we put it
down and we don't get back to it. So that's
why I come back and I'm going to say it
to you going to say it to everyone. Two or

(11:22):
three is great, pick one, pick one, and you know,
even if it's down to well it's a toss up,
that's okay, flip a coin, but pick one because if
you get that one done, you're more likely to move
on to the next thing. But if you put two
or three on the table and go, here's my two
or three I'm going to tackle, then I guarantee you

(11:45):
none of them will get done. So it is really
distilling it down. And if you've got a team, it's
getting the team together around the table. Everybody in the
team will have one thing in their role. Admin's got
one thing that you know drives some bonkers. It has
one thing that you know sends them around the band,
marketing's got one thing that's annoying them. So it could

(12:07):
be internally. First, it might be that the clients are
constantly going, oh my gosh, Pete, I just get back
to my email. Come on, man, what's going on? But
there is that we always innately have that I know
what it is, I just don't want to tackle it
because it's been sitting there gnawing away at the back
of my head for the last ten years.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
So that's good advice. You focused on the one thing.
And a good thing now with these AI tools is
that a lot of them are off the shelf. There's
subscription base, so it doesn't have to be a massive
outlay to experiment. You can, in a safe way actually
point some of these tools at a problem and just experiments.
He does it save the team time? Do customers like it?

(12:51):
So it doesn't have to be a big bang thing anymore,
does it? I mean likes the mid journey, open AIS,
enterprise chat, cheepy even you know, a few hundred dollars
a month. This doesn't have to be a massively expensive exercise,
not at all.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
And often if we look for the big bang, as
you say, like that's that's months or years to get
that sorted. You know, I'm talking about that one little
thing that you know, when we reach this point in
the customer journey, I'm the bottleneck because Jen's waiting on
me to send this thing. Okay, Well do you use Microsoft?

(13:27):
Do you use Google? Because chances are Microsoft or Google
already have that thing built in. If you explore what
it is that you're already using, you can probably you know,
plug in a workforce solution that's going to automate that
bit in the middle. It's not looking for something that's
going to completely change the way that everything's been working.
It's looking for that one little trigger that you can

(13:51):
just pull and go okay, well, let's done now. And
as you said, particularly with small businesses, we're not looking
for an enterprise solution. We want something that probably is freemium,
you know. We want to give it a crack for
seven days or fourteen days or whatever. And that's long
enough with these tools, now, that is long enough. If
you can play with it consistently for seven days or

(14:13):
fourteen days, you can make an educated decision by the
end of that time. Yes this is working. No it's not.
If it's not, ditch it and move on, because that's
how our bank accounts blow out at the end of
every month and we're going, how are we paying five
thousand dollars a month on SaaS platforms? What's going on here?
Who's using that one? But if you can go no,
that's not doing it, kill it, move on, find the

(14:34):
next one, you know, and just until you get to
that point where you like, hey, yep, that does it. Awesome.
Now look at how do we embed that?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, and it's that how do we embed that is
the crucial thing. You've actually come up with a framework.
It's not specific to AI. I think it preceded the
AI revolution. That's called reimagine. Talk us through this and
maybe use a couple of examples, because in the book
you give a couple of examples of names that listeners
will know. There's Tim Tams from Ron It's great, great product,

(15:07):
one of my favorite biscuits. So they have been reimagining
their business over subsequent decades. Yeah, king to hear about
Tim Tim Tams and also can for one of the
biggest tech successes out of Australia, started by a woman
who was not technical at all, was a graphic designer,

(15:27):
but saw the typical thing with the startup founder saw
a problem in this case with graphic design Adobe and
photoshoph and all that was clunky and big learning curve,
but has also been reimagining the business, including for the
era of AI. So take us through your approach to
reimagine and maybe use those two examples.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah. So, if I you're right the concept of reimagine,
really it came about because I was chatting with some
clients and I was like, look, how did I get
you from you know, there to there? And they were like, oh, well,
we did this and we did this, and I was
like okay. So then I started to look back at
some of the businesses that I admire and I was like,

(16:09):
that's really interesting. They've all kind of followed this same
formula for one of a better word, and I've built
it around the word reimagine because I just love the
concept that we can't think about the way that life
has always been. It's time that we reimagine things. Right.
So if I think about Arnnce and the story that
you're talking about in particular was the development of the

(16:30):
hymn tam and that came about because they had identified
that Ossies were looking for a new type of biscuit,
but they wanted something that was intrinsically Australian. But they
had kind of found this English biscuit that kind of
you know, met the foundations of what they were looking for.

(16:53):
So they went through this process of you know, back
to the framework the relationships. They took it back to
the customer. What does the customer looking for? They want
something that's a little bit more than you know, just
a dunkable playing biscuit. They want something with a bit
of genesequa for one of the better words, you know.
So then they took a look at their entire stack.

(17:13):
So they went through that evolution process or that education
process of what do we got? Where are we sitting?
They identified the gap and then they mapped out, well,
where do we want to get to? What does that
actually look like? So they went to England they found
this product and then they just started to put the
pieces into place. Okay, what happens if we do this?

(17:34):
And they did a small batch, they activated it, they
put it out to market, They gathered the information and
people went, oh, no, that's you know, completely what are
you thinking? You know, how did you come up with veggimie?
It's off the bottom of a sparrow almost, you know.
And they went through this process of reiteration and reiteration
until they landed on this formula that has now become

(17:55):
known as tim Tans. But if you think about it,
they could have just like, he's our one flavor of
Tim TAM's happy days. But I don't know what the
New Zealand supermarket shelves are like, but it is pretty
much the entire biscuit shelf of a Aussie supermarket now
is you know, nine six hundred and thirty two different

(18:16):
flavors of tim Tams. Because they have really just taken
the concept of reimagining off the charts. You know, then
you've got your Lamington flavor and your Pinicolata and your
salted caramel and you whatever. So they've now taken it
to the nth degree of it has become part of
their foundation that now they can just tweak it every

(18:37):
now and again and go, Okay, here's a celebration formula,
here's a footy formula, and we're going to do a
small batch run and now people collect them. And so
it just goes to show that as long as you
keep your people and when I say relationships or people,
it's not just clients. It's got to be your team
as well. They're your people, your suppliers. You've got to

(19:00):
keep the humans at the center. And as long as
you keep coming back to what are they looking for?
How is this making it better, worse different for them?
How are our decisions impacting our people? And that was
how they kept coming up with this evolution process around
the Tin Tam, so I kind of love. You know

(19:21):
that it can be applied into whatever stage or industry
that you're looking at.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, and there's a brand in New Zealand, a very
old brand, Woodikers Chocolate, which has gone through a similar.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
One of the best chocolates I have to say.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
It is it is great chocolate, and they've gone through
a similar over decades iterations and now have this proliferation
of different flavors of chocolate, different types. They've got a
high end, sort of boutique range of chocolates and not
many brands get away with doing that. Obviously, iron It

(19:59):
has been able to do it with Tim TAM's, and
Whittakers has as well. And it's really that relentless focus
I think, as you said, you know, on people, on
customer feedback and particularly refining it based on feedback. You know,
we saw the giant of chocolate Cabre's, really not do
well in New Zealand. You know, Whittakers took them on
and won because they listened to their customers over ethical

(20:22):
things like using palm oil and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Exactly. Yeah, and even you know, it's it's just so interesting,
isn't it. Because I remember the story of New Coke
right if anyone needed a Coca Cola drinker. New Coke
was classified as one of the biggest bombs that ever
happened in terms of marketing. You know, they scrapped the

(20:45):
original flavor and went to this new Coke, and people
kind of go, that was a real example of something
that failed, and I kind of go, actually, it's a
real example of the brand going. You know, we could
be arrogant and push forward with this because there's a
company we made a decision. But what did they do.
They went back and they listened to their client base

(21:05):
and went, Okay, we're either going to lose our entire
brand here or we fesce up and go you know what,
we're here. We made a mistake. This is off the
market now, and we're going back to what you want.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
In the case of Canva, I mean, this is probably
an older business than some people would realize. Back in
twenty ten, I think it was. Melanie Perkins was a
graphic design t shirt only nineteen years of age, but
was really frustrated with graphic design software at the time
and wanted a really simple, inclusive platform. Drag and dropped templates,

(21:44):
all of that sort of stuff. So built that it
turned into a raging success, hundreds of millions of customers,
a listed company, multi billion dollar valuation. They've integrated AI,
but they didn't really make a big song and dance
about it, did they. It was more like a silent
integration behind the scenes because they actually realized it's not

(22:04):
about waiving the AI flag. That means nothing to customers.
How is it actually going to improve their experience on
the platform. And we'll only do it if we can
achieve that.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, And what I love about the Canvas story,
you know again, it comes back to they keep their
clients close, They keep their users close. It always everything
they do needs to be How does this improve their experience?
How does this make their life easier? How does it

(22:36):
save their time? How does it you know, whatever that
goal is. But the thing when they integrated AI that
I find really interesting is they were after specific wins.
So you're right, they didn't come out and go, oh,
we're now all about AI. They just come out and went, oh,
now we've got a background remover, and look what happens
if you click here. I don't care that that's AI.

(22:59):
I care that now I don't have to figure out
how I'm going to remove you know, that random mirror
behind me because I'm dialing in from a hotel room today.
That's what I care about. I don't care that, you
know my words can now be in a circle with
neon around them. I care that I don't have to

(23:22):
figure out how to make my words in a circle,
and oh I can turn it into neon. They like
a customer doesn't care that that's AI. So I love that.
Camber just kind of went, Okay, we're hearing you. This
is what's important. It's taking you way too long to
be able to dee bet your photo or to cut back,
round out, or to put an example of what a

(23:42):
product's going to look like on a coffee mug, or
to see how it could look if we rewrote that
particular sentence or inserted a photo of a dog on
a surfboard there. You want to just be able to
do it, call it whatever you like. We just need
to make it happen. I love that because a lot
of companies, you know, as you rightly said, Peter, they're

(24:04):
very We've got AI and we'd like to tell you
about our latest AI and it's about me. And here
I am with my AII product, and you need to
know about this because we've spent hundreds of thousands of
millions of dollars in production of doing this and we're fantastic.
I don't care what's in it for me, like what's
in it for the client. So I love the companies
that come about it that way.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, and as you said, some of those features, we
don't care whether they're done by AI. We just want
a better experience to do it faster, more efficiently. I
guess some of the low hanging fruit for a lot
of New Zealand businesses will be what you referenced earlier,
why don't you just respond to my email in a
timely fashion? And they'll be looking to AI to triage

(24:46):
their inbox and customer inquiries and that sort of thing.
But how do you deal with with with that? You know,
customers tell us they love the human touch, the acceptance
factor of in customer service off AI getting in there
to try and streamline things. How much acceptance after is it?
And how do you broach that with customers. We've seen

(25:09):
customer service chatbots not do very well so far because
it frustrates people they're not good enough. Maybe the next iteration,
the so called AI agents will be able to have
a more naturalistic conversation and a useful conversation. But the
generation up till now really have not been well received.
So how do you keep that human touch but integrate

(25:31):
AI into the customer experience transparency?

Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think treaty clients like you know you've always treated them,
and if you actually value them and enjoy working with
them and all the rest of it, then I think,
you know, we're so nervous about making changes because how
is this going to impact to whatever? But you know,
most of our clients I've just found if you sit
down with people and go so hey, Peter, you've kind

(25:57):
of expressed this, and thank you for that, I really
like it. Listen with you know, thinking about introducing this
as a way to you know, kind of close that down.
What do you reckon if I put you on a
beta group? Would that be okay? Can you give me
some feedback on what's working what's not working? Because I'm
not going to release this to everyone until I know that,

(26:18):
you know, my core group of people are okay. You
find people go like oh mate, that's amazing, Like, yeah,
let me, what do you need? What do you, what
do you need? How can I help? Because you're bringing
them in, You're bringing them into the inner sanctum of like,
you know, hey, you brought this up as a problem
for me, and thank you. Help me solve it. How
do I make my business better? For you to work

(26:39):
with me? How to make my business better? That you're
going to say, you know, George, you really need to
work with Tracy, Like you're not going to get a
better experience. It's the authenticity thing. That's what we're looking
for now, right, Like we don't I find the people
that I work with, their clients don't care if it's

(26:59):
me or if it's AI, as long as the problem
is resolved. They care when the problem is escalated or
it's not addressed, or I'm ignored or I'm belittled or
you know whatever. But if I'm very upfront and go

(27:21):
we're going through a process of trialing AI for X
y Z. We don't know how it's going to go.
Would be great, might be a horrible, you know, a
horrible burning failure, but you need to let us know.
So I think now's the perfect opportunity to build up
that loyalty and that emotional bank account with our clients

(27:44):
and kind of go come along with us. We don't
know if this is going to work, but why don't
you learn with us, help us out, and we'll teach
you along the way with what's going on and certainly
what we're seeing out of the EU, you know, the
clients are voting with their dollars and brand loyalty is
exceptional with those organizations that are being very, very transparent

(28:09):
around how they're utilizing AI and how their business values
are now transitioning and aligning with AI to ensure that
their clients know exactly what's going on.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
You're talk in the book about sort of AI governance
and has been you know, this is just whole conferences
in our run on this and lots of well paid
lawyers and consultants are working on it. And I can
understand that for the top end of town, you know,
the big companies, they need probably a team or a
chief AI officer to oversee all of this. But for

(28:43):
small and medium sized businesses, they're probably thinking, how do
I even approach this?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Now?

Speaker 1 (28:48):
There is governance built into some of the platforms that
they're using. To some extent they are there's transparency, there,
there's security around these cloud platforms, as long as you
not in putting stuff into large language models that is
going to be used to improve those large language models.
I think businesses understand the risks around that. But for

(29:11):
the smaller sized businesses in Australia and New Zealand, what's
your advice to approaching governance making sure that you can experiment,
but do it safely and not really upset your customers
by inappropriately using their data.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, and look, the data is such a big thing,
isn't it, Because we've gotten so used to trading data
for convenience. But it's when we're trading our clients data
without their knowledge that it becomes a problem. So again
I think it's about getting all the people at the
table and just starting the conversation. The really important thing
to know is really nobody has the answers now, but

(29:47):
we've got to start having the conversations, you know, So
don't expect that you're going to walk out of a
thirty minute them meeting or a one hour team meeting
as well. Right, that's done, and you know next week
we'll be talking about this. You're going to be talking
about this for the next three years. So put something
in pencil doesn't even have to be in pen because

(30:08):
it's going to change. But you need to start those conversations,
and you need to be thinking about, Okay, do your
team members have their own phones or are they using
company phones? Okay, well they bring their own phones. Okay,
Well can they use chat GPT on their own phones
during business hours? Because what happens if they open up
open AI Chat GPT or whatever one that they use.

(30:32):
Because you know, I'm swamped at work and i just
want to get this email smashed out, So I'm just
going to quickly write it on chat GPT and then
flick it across to the work saying. You know, if
you haven't at least had that conversation, there are no
guard rails. So much like you know, only a few
years ago, companies were suddenly going, oh okay, we probably

(30:53):
need a social media policy. You know, get one of
the ms to write you large language model, get you
to get it to write you an AI policy if
that's what you need right now, and say I am
in this industry. You know, I'm a mortgage broker. Based
on the New Zealand Guidelines for AI Ethical Usage and

(31:14):
blah blah blah. I have a team of XYZ, they
have their own devices. We use Microsoft. We use this
draft me an AI policy. That can begin the conversation
with the team, because at least then you've got a
starting point to go, okay, well how does everyone feel
about this? And then they know that if they do

(31:35):
use their own device to create something and it gets
put through a work system, well there could be repercussions.
You know, they at least know. Okay, I'm probably going
to have to answer for that one, and I might
get a conversation with Karen from HR about you know
why we can't do that anymore. But we need to

(31:56):
start the conversations. That's the really big thing right now,
because going away, it's only going to become more and
more prevalent.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Finally, Tracy, towards the end of the book, you look
into the future and we're in the agentic AI era now,
which is really going from chatbots dispensing information to chatbots
being able to do things on our behalf. Take action
with approved parameters could be a purchase decision or approval

(32:28):
or processing information based on certain rules, we will okay
this or not. So you've got that you talk about
multimodal AI, which we've just seen Google VO three, which
is you know, audio video sync together. It used to
be sort of separate tools would do all of that.
So one AI that does sort of text video coding everything.

(32:49):
They're getting much better. This is all great, and you
said it's going to keep changing. But are we on
the cusp finally of seeing the promised productivity gains? Do
you think?

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Absolutely? Absolutely? So. I'm already working with people. We're putting
agentic agents in still with a lot of human oversight,
I will preface that. And these things are never going
to be as bad as they are right now. You know,
we're still kind of hurting a bunch of toddlers running
around bouncing off walls, and you know, at Jim Brew's

(33:21):
right now, they're fueled up on red cordial and keen
to go. But you know, I was working with someone
the other day and she was saying to me she
has to get up at like eleven eleven, say, up
to like eleven pm to one am to ring all
of these places in Europe to organize things before the
CEO flies, you know, out to do the meetings. And

(33:42):
I was like, okay, that's interesting. So what if. And
then we looked at this agendic agent that could ring
out and make all of the restaurant bookings right, and
all she's got to do is verify yes, they've been made,
Yes they're correct, all the rest of it at eight
o'clock and seven o'clock in the morning when she gets
into the office like that would say hours a week. Perfect.

(34:02):
Let's try that then, but let's try that in isolation
and know that that is working before we then put
the next step in place. So it's it's we've got
to have the human and the loop right now. We
can't let these things run off fueled on red cordial
and go bouncing into walls. That's where the trouble's going

(34:22):
to happen. We still need, you know, the Peter Griffins
of the world to be sitting around going we didn't
want a table for six we wanted a table for sixteen.
You know, let's check that back in again. But again,
they're three, you know, they're six months old, they're twelve
months old. Depending on how all these software systems are,

(34:44):
they're never going to be this bad again. So if
we're not figuring out what we can do with them now,
We're cooked in twelve months time.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Good advice, Tracy, thanks so much for coming on. The
book is AI You Reimagining Business? Will put links to
where kiwis combine in stores.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Here.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Have you got an audiobook coming?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
It will be coming. I have had a Nasti cole,
so I have to wait for my radio voice to
come back.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Well, you know, I think you've got such a great personality, Tracy.
I think that will be a great way to consume
the book. But thanks so much, lots of great ideas
there and as I say, really practical stuff for our
small and mid sized businesses. So good luck with the
launch of the book, and thanks so much for coming on.
Thanks Peter, I'll see you in end zed looking forward

(35:34):
to it. That's all for this episode of the Business
of Tech. A big thank you to Tracy Sheen for
joining us and sharing her insights on how small and
medium sized businesses can cut through the AI hype and
make real practical gains. If you want to dive deeper,

(35:57):
Tracy's new book is called AI and You Reimagine Business.
It's available now in paperback and digital form. There are
links to where you can find it in the show notes.
Go to the podcast section at Business deesk dot co
dot nz to find those. I think it's a really
great read for anyone looking to future proof their business

(36:18):
and take the first confidence steps into the world of AI.
If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
a review and share it with your network. Next week,
I'm joined by Mike Callender, CEO of two degrees and
Steve Yukovich, CEO of Kiwibank to delve into the results

(36:39):
of two degrees latest Shaping Business study. It's highlighted the
growing sense of optimism in our business community. You know,
businesses say they want to invest more. They feel they're
going to grow revenue in the next year. They're interested
in putting more money into technology, including AI. But is

(37:00):
it premature to say we're on the road to recovery.
Are we finally turning a corner? Well, let's find out
next Thursday with another episode off the Business of Tech.
I'll catch you then,

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